2013-14 NBA season

[grahors]

Greetings,
I have been reading "Handicapping 101". In the text, a speed duel will result if 3 or more horses have...in sprints QSP greater than 6 and in routes, QSP greater than "4". I realize that running style plays a big part, but I have always thought that in both sprints and routes, 3 or more with 7"s and 8"s would produce the duel...comments please.
Whatta do with a P6 or 7?
What guidelines are others using?
Grahors :cool:

[Zaf]

I stopped trying to figure that out. There always seems to be someone who breaks that is not supposed to, and vice-versa. Its rare that the race sets up according to the QSP. At least I have found that.

ZAFONIC

[BIG HIT]

I agree with z and also think reguardless of q pts if more then one e type the risk is alway's there.Have seen a E zero pts win the race face E7\8 pts.
In fact my big concern is who to the inside of the front runner as to me that the biggest edge.Barring any real pace adv.

[andicap]

Greetings,
I have been reading "Handicapping 101". In the text, a speed duel will result if 3 or more horses have...in sprints QSP greater than 6 and in routes, QSP greater than "4". I realize that running style plays a big part, but I have always thought that in both sprints and routes, 3 or more with 7"s and 8"s would produce the duel...comments please.
Whatta do with a P6 or 7?
What guidelines are others using?
Grahors :cool:


Read Randy Giles' stuff for good info on this -- can't recall his new URL -- anyone???

[cj]

www.paceappraiser.com

The link to the articles and his old site:

http://www.paceappraiser.com/old/index.html

[toetoe]

Randy Giles' site is great. Just spent a half-hour rooting around @ that site. Moron that later.

[46zilzal]

Nice but misleading in themselves..often in a speed duel one breaks away or BOTH run far ahead of the entire group to usually come in first and third....ALSO, the points are assigned WIHTOUT REGARD to the acutal pace that horse faced in that contest, only the fact that it was UP there....a horse running 4th vs. 21.2 opening will get the lead over TWO others ON the lead in 22.3, yet which one gets the speed points?

[andicap]

Nice but misleading in themselves..often in a speed duel one breaks away or BOTH run far ahead of the entire group to usually come in first and third....ALSO, the points are assigned WIHTOUT REGARD to the acutal pace that horse faced in that contest, only the fact that it was UP there....a horse running 4th vs. 21.2 opening will get the lead over TWO others ON the lead in 22.3, yet which one gets the speed points?

Not necessarily. A horse with 8 points who runs in 22.3 might get the lead over the a horse with 3 points who runs a race in 21.4. The "E" horse wants to be in front. The other one, probably a "P" horse sometimes (but not always, it depends on the horse) would rather chase the pace. The old herd instinct argument which I subscribe to.

Yes, you can't take to to many extremes -- a P horse will sometimes take the lead over an "E" if the fractional disparity is too great, but most of the time your example is way too extreme. The differences are generally a few fifths of a second.

Having said that I don't think speed points are the be all and end all. They are my first guide to how a race might be run, but certainly far from the last word.

[andicap]

Randy Giles' site is great. Just spent a half-hour rooting around @ that site. Moron that later.

For Randy's sake I hope that wasn't a Freudian slip on your part.

;)

[Zaf]

Quirin mentioned something in his book about adding up all the speed points and divide by the individual numbers. Something like that , I forgot. Has anyone had better success using the speed points in this manner. Sorry I cannot remember the exact method for using the % of points.

ZAFONIC

[Overlay]

As you said, Quirin discussed adding the individual speed point totals of each horse in a race together, and then dividing each horse's individual total by the total for the field to arrive at the percentage of the field's total possessed by each individual horse. For example, if a horse had eight speed points, and the speed-point totals for all the horses in the field added up to 40, the eight-point horse would have 20% of the field's total speed points. The $NET, winning percentages, percentage of all winners, and impact values which Quirin found to be associated with the various percentage ranges were as follows:

0% had a $NET of $1.12, 7.5% winning percentage, 14.4% of all winners, and an impact value of 0.65.

1%-9% had a $NET of $1.59, 9.7% winning percentage, 22.6% of all winners, and an impact value of 0.85.

10%-19% had a $NET of $1.55, 12.1% winning percentage, 34.2% of all winners, and an impact value of 1.06.

20%-29% had a $NET of $1.76, 16.1% winning percentage, 20.5% of all winners, and an impact value of 1.41.

30% or higher had a $NET of $1.82, 20.4% winning percentage, 8.4% of all winners, and an impact value of 1.78.

Sorry, but I can't comment on the continuing effectiveness of this stratification from personal experience.

[Zaf]

Thanks for the clarification Overlay.

ZAFONIC

[46zilzal]

Calculating Speed Points in Sprint Races: Each horse starts with one point. Look at a horse’s last race. It can get from 0 to 2 points for each ratable race. If it was a route, the horse gets 0 points (Exception: If the horse was within one length at the first call of the route, pass that race and move onto the race before it). If it was a sprint in which the horse was third or better at the first call, the horse gets a point. If it was within two lengths of the leader at the first call, it gets another point (Exception: for 7 furlong ratable races, the horse must have been leading at the first call). If neither of these applies, the horse gets 0 points for that ratable race. You then move onto the race before that, until you’ve rated three races. After rating three races for each horse, you have from 1 to 7 points for each horse. You now either add one point or subtract one point from the total. If the horse has 7 points and was within a neck of the leader at the first call of all of its ratable races, it gets a bonus point for a grand total of 8. If the horse has 1 point and was in the rear half of the field in all of its ratable races, or if all its last 5 races were routes, and it was not within one length of the leader in any of them, it loses a point for a grand total of 0.

Calculating Speed Points in Route Races: Each horse starts with one point. Look at a horse’s last race. It can get from 0 to 2 points for each ratable race. If the ratable race was a route in which the horse was third or better at the first call, the horse gets a point. If the horse was also within three lengths at the first call, it gets a second point. Now, if the ratable race was a sprint in which the horse was within six lengths at the first call, it gets a point. If the horse was also either third or better at the first call or within three lengths of the leader at the first call, it gets a second point. After rating three races for each horse, you have from 1 to 7 points for each horse. You now either add one point or subtract one point from the total. If the horse has 7 points and was within a one length of the leader at the first call of each of its ratable routes and/or within three lengths of the leader in each of its ratable sprints, it gets a bonus point for a grand total of 8. If the horse has 1 point and was in the rear half of the field in all of its ratable routes, it loses a point for a grand total of 0.

[ranchwest]

There's also an extrapolation table for horses that are lightly raced.

[Valuist]

Opens tonight. The marquee matchup is the Bulls at the Heat. Several reasons to be on the dog Bulls tonight. They've played the Heat tough during the regular season the past few years. They ended the Heat's long win streak last year and that was without Derrick Rose. Its Ring Night for the Heat, and we've seen some of these defending champions come out flat in these situations. But IMO, the biggest reason to like the Bulls is that Rose has something to prove. He was the MVP of the 2011-12 season then blew out his knee and missed all of last season. So one of the top players around the league posts his 10 top players and guess who's missing: Rose. Out of sight, out of mind. That ends tonight, and he's going to make them remember he's still a top 10 player in the league.

[Robert Goren]

Opens tonight. Why? Aren't they scared of opening on the Breeders Cup weekend?

[cj]

Rose looked really good in the preseason.

[Robert Goren]

For me the NBA doesn't really start until Super Bowl and some years not until after the NCAA tournament. I might watch Barkley tonight, but I doubt if I will watch any of the games. It is just too early.

[Valuist]

Rose looked really good in the preseason.

I didn't get to see any but the reports om Rose are good. I will be surprised if the Bulls aren't right there in the final minute.

[wisconsin]

I didn't get to see any but the reports om Rose are good. I will be surprised if the Bulls aren't right there in the final minute.

This will be the first time in a long while that all 5 starters will actually start a game together.

[Striker]

While Noah has said he will 100% play tonight, but I am not so sure he is ready from a conditioning perspective. Hinrich might/might not play also.

[cj]

Rose will be back, but he is clearly rusty. Regular season a different animal.

I'm hearing now that Russell will be back much sooner for the Thunder than originally reported, maybe just two weeks which is a month ahead of schedule.

[wiffleball whizz]

For me the NBA doesn't really start until Super Bowl and some years not until after the NCAA tournament. I might watch Barkley tonight, but I doubt if I will watch any of the games. It is just too early.


Dead on........ill focus on nba after the NCAA tourney....if they didn't get me tonight on a dead Tuesday they won't see me till playoffs

Though I was tempted to take a season total on heat under 61.5......too may chances of taking a night Off and will be taking the bottom feeders best shot night in and night out

[cj]

Dead on........ill focus on nba after the NCAA tourney....if they didn't get me tonight on a dead Tuesday they won't see me till playoffs

Though I was tempted to take a season total on heat under 61.5......too may chances of taking a night Off and will be taking the bottom feeders best shot night in and night out

NCAA basketball is brutal right now. Supposedly there are big changes coming in the rules after a plethora of 45-38 games, but we'll see. After watching 6 years of NBA in person, it is tough to stomach an OU / Texas Tech or OSU / TCU. You couldn't give me tickets to those things.

[wiffleball whizz]

NCAA basketball is brutal right now. Supposedly there are big changes coming in the rules after a plethora of 45-38 games, but we'll see. After watching 6 years of NBA in person, it is tough to stomach an OU / Texas Tech or OSU / TCU. You couldn't give me tickets to those things.


Oklahoma gotta be waiting for next Thursdays with baylor and the sooners

Don't think if Baylor has the chance they won't put a 90 ball on the board

OU ran some nasty numbers up on bears


Back to the regularly scheduled thread!!!

[Valuist]

Bulls were awful. The 12 pt final differential is deceptive. Heat went on a 31-5 run late in 1st quarter and into 2nd quarter. They dominated.

[Stillriledup]

NCAA basketball is brutal right now. Supposedly there are big changes coming in the rules after a plethora of 45-38 games, but we'll see. After watching 6 years of NBA in person, it is tough to stomach an OU / Texas Tech or OSU / TCU. You couldn't give me tickets to those things.

any thoughts on the Thunder season O/U total of 55?

[ManU918]

I know my Sixers are going to suck this year and will most likely be in line to get Wiggins in the draft when its all said and done. But the Heat sitting Wade in the second game of the season is a slap in the face.... I hope the Sixers pull this one out.

On a side note I really hate Wade... I lost all respect for him two years ago when the Heat beat the Sixers in the first round... There were 10 seconds left in game 5 and the Heat were burying the Sixers and about to end the series... The Heat inbound the ball and everyone starts shaking hands, talking, etc... Dwayne Wade gets the ball runs all the way down court with no one attempting to stick him and stuffs it. From that point on I have only wished bad things upon him.

[cj]

any thoughts on the Thunder season O/U total of 55?

The line sounds about right.

[ManU918]

I know my Sixers are going to suck this year and will most likely be in line to get Wiggins in the draft when its all said and done. But the Heat sitting Wade in the second game of the season is a slap in the face.... I hope the Sixers pull this one out.

On a side note I really hate Wade... I lost all respect for him two years ago when the Heat beat the Sixers in the first round... There were 10 seconds left in game 5 and the Heat were burying the Sixers and about to end the series... The Heat inbound the ball and everyone starts shaking hands, talking, etc... Dwayne Wade gets the ball runs all the way down court with no one attempting to stick him and stuffs it. From that point on I have only wished bad things upon him.

That's what the **** I'm talking about!!!!!! **** you Miami!!!! Get the **** outta Philly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ManU918]

Michael Carter Williams - 22 Points, 12 assists, 9 steals and 7 rebounds.... That has to be one of the greatest debuts for a rookie PG in NBA history.

[cj]

Michael Carter Williams - 22 Points, 12 assists, 9 steals and 7 rebounds.... That has to be one of the greatest debuts for a rookie PG in NBA history.

He was impressive, no doubt about it.

[Striker]

Michael Carter Williams - 22 Points, 12 assists, 9 steals and 7 rebounds.... That has to be one of the greatest debuts for a rookie PG in NBA history.
Just as good, if not better overall, than Isiah Thomas in his debut for the Pistons.

[Valuist]

Not to redboard but Miami was a great go-against last night. 2nd of a back to back off a national TV game in which they destroyed the Bulls. Didn't have it on the moneyline, however. Nobody, even the Heat, can go all out in all 82 games.

[ManU918]

Not to redboard but Miami was a great go-against last night. 2nd of a back to back off a national TV game in which they destroyed the Bulls. Didn't have it on the moneyline, however. Nobody, even the Heat, can go all out in all 82 games.

Oh come on your using the going all out excuse in the second game of the season? It's not like this was game 72 and they were resting Wade to save his legs for the upcoming postseason. It was game 2. Look at these two teams on paper, even without Wade its still a total mismatch. Nobody even myself who is a diehard Sixers fan thought MCW was capable of what he did last night. Not in the first game of his rookie season against that team anyway.

When Allen hit the 50 footer to end the third quarter to take a 9 point lead any hope of the Sixers winning seemed to have gone down the shitter. Especially after leading by 22 at one point in the game. But the Sixers hit some huge shots down the stretch and played really good defense.

If you would have came on here and said I could of seen the Sixers getting within the 10 point number... That would have made sense but saying the Heat were a great go against after the fact makes me wonder why you would not have wagered on the Sixers ML if you were that confident.

[ManU918]

Sixers 2-0.... Nice game for Spencer... 16 14 and 5...

[lansdale]

Thought I might see a few future book picks in this thread. I think it's a tougher year than most, but FWIW, here are mine:

East:

1. Chicago
2. Miami
3. Brooklyn

West:

1. Spurs
2. OKC
3. Houston


I think the Heat run out of gas this year. Wade is likely to be down with injuries for some part of the season and will again be questionable at playoff time. Brooklyn has the most talent (in fact enough to beat the Heat last night), but it will take them at least a year to gel. Bulls, assuming a healthy Rose, the default pick.

I love OKC, but they can't win it without a third scorer and a much smarter coach. The Harden deal now looks worse than ever for them. OTOH Houston obviously much improved, and D12, averaging 21 boards in his first two games, looks ready to play. Both he and Lin now look fully recovered from their injuries in contrast to last year. But, like Bklyn, they need at least a year to contend for a title. That leaves SAS, again, more by default for any other reason. If Belinelli and Mills can give them anything, and the veterans can avoid serious injury, believe they'll be playing for the title again this year.

Intruiging rumor: Jalen Rose claims that Durant, who has said that he's not concerned with winning a title this year, will join the Rockets once his contract is up in OKC. If so, they would get the dynasty that should have been OKC's. Time will tell.

[Valuist]

Oh come on your using the going all out excuse in the second game of the season? It's not like this was game 72 and they were resting Wade to save his legs for the upcoming postseason. It was game 2. Look at these two teams on paper, even without Wade its still a total mismatch. Nobody even myself who is a diehard Sixers fan thought MCW was capable of what he did last night. Not in the first game of his rookie season against that team anyway.

When Allen hit the 50 footer to end the third quarter to take a 9 point lead any hope of the Sixers winning seemed to have gone down the shitter. Especially after leading by 22 at one point in the game. But the Sixers hit some huge shots down the stretch and played really good defense.

If you would have came on here and said I could of seen the Sixers getting within the 10 point number... That would have made sense but saying the Heat were a great go against after the fact makes me wonder why you would not have wagered on the Sixers ML if you were that confident.

First off, Wade not only didn't start. He didn't play at all. Obviously the Heat didn't feel it was significant for him to play. All that talk about the Heat rallying is besides the point; how much energy did it take them to come back? See that all the time in the NBA. A team falls behind, then puts in a big run, but comes up flat because they used up too much energy trying to come back.

Its all about focus. No reason for the Heat to have had that game circled. Nobody gets up for 82 games, and if you are coming off a national TV game against a big rival, and you DID come out energized in that game, good chance of a flat spot coming back on no rest.

[ManU918]

Sixers are 3 and 0 for the first time since 2006..... Three straight wins as 9 point or more dogs... This team is legit.

[Valuist]

Both Indiana and Dallas are in the 1st of 4 games/5 days situations. Both will also be playing ESPN games tomorrow night. Their Wednesday opponents (Chicago and OK-C) do not play tonight.

[Valuist]

Bulls with several days off after giving up 107 to Sixers. I would expect Thibidoux to have ridden their a$$es hard the past few days and would expect a very focused defensive effort tonight. Pacers coming off a game (win) in Detroit last night but always strong defensively. Would have to lean under the total here.

[Stillriledup]

Thought I might see a few future book picks in this thread. I think it's a tougher year than most, but FWIW, here are mine:

East:

1. Chicago
2. Miami
3. Brooklyn

West:

1. Spurs
2. OKC
3. Houston


I think the Heat run out of gas this year. Wade is likely to be down with injuries for some part of the season and will again be questionable at playoff time. Brooklyn has the most talent (in fact enough to beat the Heat last night), but it will take them at least a year to gel. Bulls, assuming a healthy Rose, the default pick.

I love OKC, but they can't win it without a third scorer and a much smarter coach. The Harden deal now looks worse than ever for them. OTOH Houston obviously much improved, and D12, averaging 21 boards in his first two games, looks ready to play. Both he and Lin now look fully recovered from their injuries in contrast to last year. But, like Bklyn, they need at least a year to contend for a title. That leaves SAS, again, more by default for any other reason. If Belinelli and Mills can give them anything, and the veterans can avoid serious injury, believe they'll be playing for the title again this year.

Intruiging rumor: Jalen Rose claims that Durant, who has said that he's not concerned with winning a title this year, will join the Rockets once his contract is up in OKC. If so, they would get the dynasty that should have been OKC's. Time will tell.

So wait, OKC is better than Houston and LAC?

[Valuist]

Bulls with several days off after giving up 107 to Sixers. I would expect Thibidoux to have ridden their a$$es hard the past few days and would expect a very focused defensive effort tonight. Pacers coming off a game (win) in Detroit last night but always strong defensively. Would have to lean under the total here.

Thought it was an easy win, but had to sweat it late. When I play unders in the NBA, I prefer not to watch the 4th quarter.

[lansdale]

So wait, OKC is better than Houston and LAC?

Hi SRU,

I think we can all agree that the talent level in the NBA West is closely bunched up. I think that SAS and OKC will win about the same number of games as last year (barring major injury), since they've changed little and will likely play in the conference finals. I think Houston, obviously improved, will move up from 52 to maybe 58 wins or so. Again, they still have to learn to play together, and they need better perimeter defense.

I think Rivers is going to prove a bad fit with the Clips, but they still have enough to win 56 or 57 games. Re LAC, though, beyond CP3, who is extraordinary, they don't really have anybody who can score against a tough, post-season defense. Griffin is a good young player, but he's very one-dimensional, and he vanished in the post-season last year. People tout him as a potential HOF player, but compare his numbers to dominant PFs of the past 20-30 years - Duncan, Barkley, Malone, Nowitzki - at his age, and even earlier, they were all much, much better. And Jamal Crawford as a third scorer.....!! They won't win anything without some major changes.

Cheers,

lansdale

[cj]

So wait, OKC is better than Houston and LAC?

Yes, they play defense.

Westbrook is incredible tonight.

[wiffleball whizz]

Yes, they play defense.

Westbrook is incredible tonight.


ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZ........

Wake me up after the ncaaas!!!!!

How does the pelicans blast or at one point be up 32 against Memphis......________ game

You can fill in the blank :lol: :lol: :lol:

[wiffleball whizz]

BOAT GAME ALERT

golden st spurs total misses by 52........impossible result

[cj]

Steven Adams is turning into a beast, and he won't turn 21 this season.

[ManU918]

7eC8sb9jcBI

[cj]

Nice, right in Lebron's face too.

[ManU918]

Nice, right in Lebron's face too.

All setup due to a missed free throw by Wade on the other end..... Boston was down 4 with 3.6 to go...

[Valuist]

Interesting game tonight with the Cavaliers coming to Chicago. First time D-Rose and Irving face off. Lots of hype. Cavs went to a 3 guard lineup on Saturday and got into a huge shootout. They won but did give up 50 points in the paint. Bulls have struggled offensively but this could be a good opportunity for them to pile up some points. Like the over.

[Valuist]

Big matchup Saturday night in Chicago as the Pacers come to town. But first things first; both teams play Friday night.

Bulls in Toronto and it looks like Rose isn't going to play. Tomorrow's game is more important, so it makes sense. The Bulls didn't figure to be 100% focused tonight anyways with the revenge game against the Pacers on tap. My initial lean was on the under, but with three "over" officials, I will just pass the total.

Better setup for Indy tonight, who takes on a depleted Bucks squad. Milwaukee just dressed 8 players the other night vs Orlando. Nobody has scored more than 91 against the Pacers this season, and its hard to picture this depleted Buck squad being the first. Gotta go under 183.5 here.

[lansdale]

Big matchup Saturday night in Chicago as the Pacers come to town. But first things first; both teams play Friday night.

Bulls in Toronto and it looks like Rose isn't going to play. Tomorrow's game is more important, so it makes sense. The Bulls didn't figure to be 100% focused tonight anyways with the revenge game against the Pacers on tap. My initial lean was on the under, but with three "over" officials, I will just pass the total.

Better setup for Indy tonight, who takes on a depleted Bucks squad. Milwaukee just dressed 8 players the other night vs Orlando. Nobody has scored more than 91 against the Pacers this season, and its hard to picture this depleted Buck squad being the first. Gotta go under 183.5 here.

....on Indy/Bucks.

[Valuist]

The Bulls' two worst defensive efforts last season both came against Denver, giving up 128 and 119 (the 119 was an OT game). This will NOT sit well with Tibs. I'm sure it probably ate away at him in the offseason. 64 points in the paint in the game they gave up 128. Denver wants to run and gun, Bulls want to make it a half court game. Think the Bulls impose their defensive will and slow this down enough to keep it under the 199 1/2.

[cj]

The Bulls' two worst defensive efforts last season both came against Denver, giving up 128 and 119 (the 119 was an OT game). This will NOT sit well with Tibs. I'm sure it probably ate away at him in the offseason. 64 points in the paint in the game they gave up 128. Denver wants to run and gun, Bulls want to make it a half court game. Think the Bulls impose their defensive will and slow this down enough to keep it under the 199 1/2.

This is FAR from the Nuggets team of last year.

[Valuist]

This is FAR from the Nuggets team of last year.

True, but when a coach can use something to motivate a team, they will do it. I saw that the loss to Denver last year was the biggest margin loss since Thibideaux (sp?) became coach of the Bulls. They've had two off days. Nothing is guaranteed in terms of results but I will be shocked if they are not very focused tonight.

[cj]

Bulls kept it under, nice call. Who knew they would do it by being horrible on offense against the Nuggets?

[Valuist]

Bulls kept it under, nice call. Who knew they would do it by being horrible on offense against the Nuggets?

I'll take it. Right result, wrong reason. Have enough of the opposite so still worth cashing.

I thought they were pretty flat. I watched the first 3 quarters and the Bulls may have led for 1 minute of the game, so even though it was a 10 pt differential, it really wasn't close.

[Valuist]

Coming right back with another Bulls under, going under 190 1/2. Refs like to swallow the whistle: Boland 20 overs 34 unders since start of last season; Collins 35 overs 44 unders. Bulls 7 overs 13 unders L20 with no rest, Blazers 8 overs 11 unders 1 push L20 of 1st of 2 back to back.

[cj]

Coming right back with another Bulls under, going under 190 1/2. Refs like to swallow the whistle: Boland 20 overs 34 unders since start of last season; Collins 35 overs 44 unders. Bulls 7 overs 13 unders L20 with no rest, Blazers 8 overs 11 unders 1 push L20 of 1st of 2 back to back.

Did the Bulls season end last night? (Kind of a tough beat on the under, though it was always going to be over before Rose was hurt)

[Valuist]

Did the Bulls season end last night? (Kind of a tough beat on the under, though it was always going to be over before Rose was hurt)

I don't think so. Torn meniscus; not an ACL. THey are saying he needs surgery and will be out 4-8 weeks. Knowing his history I would say 4 weeks is unlikely, but given how weak the East is, they could still be a 3 seed if he comes back in late January.

[cj]

I don't think so. Torn meniscus; not an ACL. THey are saying he needs surgery and will be out 4-8 weeks. Knowing his history I would say 4 weeks is unlikely, but given how weak the East is, they could still be a 3 seed if he comes back in late January.

This is what Westbrook had. I think if they take it out, he'll be back sooner but it could shorten his career. If they repair it, it will take longer to get back. Westbrook is rusty still, but he hasn't lost any of his speed or quickness.

[Quagmire]

Rose out for the season.

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/10034512/derrick-rose-chicago-bulls-season-knee-surgery

[Valuist]

Yeah, I just heard. So to re-answer CJ's question, yes it did end. The doctor I heard interviewed two days ago must've assumed they would try to remove the meniscus, which would be a quicker recovery. They opted to re-attach it, which is a much longer procedure to recover from, but it much better in the long run. Last year the Bulls were a solid, but unspectacular team, but they had a guy like Nate Robinson who could fill some of the scoring void. I consider Dunleavy a downgrade from Robinson. The East is weak, so they will still make the playoffs, but have zero chance of getting past the Heat or Pacers.

[cj]

If the surgery didn't, losing to Utah should. After watching that Jazz in person on Sunday night, that is almost inconceivable.

[Valuist]

I don't advocate betting Miami often, but when picking spots, there can be opportunities. Miami is laying a small number (3.5) to Detroit. Detroit beat them in Miami a week ago. Both teams played last night, and won easily. But Miami did it easier, as no starter logged over 32 minutes, and 3 reserves got 20 or more minutes. Despite the Pistons easy 17 point win over the Bulls last night, 4 of the 5 starters logged 35 minutes or more. Miami hasn't forgotten the 10 point loss to the Pistons a week ago, and this looks like a good spot to give Detroit a beating.

[Valuist]

An easy win and cover for the Heat last night. One game that interests me tonight is Golden State/Charlotte. Two contrasting styles. Charlotte is a dominant tempo team, going 1-11-1 to the under in their last 13 games. They just came off an under against the fast tempo Sixers. Charlotte now has gone 13 straight without giving up 100 points in a game. GS is clearly an uptempo team w/shaky D but improved considerably in their last. Not picking a side, but I think Charlotte will have a bigger impact on the tempo. Under 193.

[Valuist]

Think Cleveland may be in a good spot tonight. Portland is obviously more talented, but the Blazers are in a first of a B2B, with a divisional game Wed night in Minnesota. I expect the Blazers to be less than 100% focused tonight. The Cavs come in rested after having last played on Saturday; following the game they are off until Friday, with an easy spot being home vs the Bucks. Cavaliers have zero excuses tonight and should be focused. Whether or not they are good enough may be a different story but we'll take Cleve +5.

[lansdale]

Think Cleveland may be in a good spot tonight. Portland is obviously more talented, but the Blazers are in a first of a B2B, with a divisional game Wed night in Minnesota. I expect the Blazers to be less than 100% focused tonight. The Cavs come in rested after having last played on Saturday; following the game they are off until Friday, with an easy spot being home vs the Bucks. Cavaliers have zero excuses tonight and should be focused. Whether or not they are good enough may be a different story but we'll take Cleve +5.

Hi Valuist,

Nice call last night, and 2-2. Do you beat the NBA long-term? I found it very tough going a couple years back, last time I played seriously. IMHO, like horseracing, it used to be much easier.

Cheers,

lansdale

[Valuist]

Hi Valuist,

Nice call last night, and 2-2. Do you beat the NBA long-term? I found it very tough going a couple years back, last time I played seriously. IMHO, like horseracing, it used to be much easier.

Cheers,

lansdale

Thx

I have but it is very time consuming. Almost all my plays are scheduling related, or work within a few angles I have. You will never hear me say "I believe team A is more talented than team B, so I will bet team A." Never. I know the linemaker will generally have all the talent factored in. But no team can go all-out for 82 games. Not the Jordan-Pippen Bulls, not the Shaq-Kobe Lakers or the Lebron-Wade Heat. Another recent example was Indiana the other day. They were playing Detroit Monday night but the game tonight against the Heat was where the Pacers' focus figured to be. Sure enough, Detroit won outright.

[BetHorses!]

Thx

I have but it is very time consuming. Almost all my plays are scheduling related, or work within a few angles I have. You will never hear me say "I believe team A is more talented than team B, so I will bet team A." Never. I know the linemaker will generally have all the talent factored in. But no team can go all-out for 82 games. Not the Jordan-Pippen Bulls, not the Shaq-Kobe Lakers or the Lebron-Wade Heat. Another recent example was Indiana the other day. They were playing Detroit Monday night but the game tonight against the Heat was where the Pacers' focus figured to be. Sure enough, Detroit won outright.

I had a guy who focused on what he referred to as "calandar games". He was very sharp, but in the end the NBA got him. Only a few guys beat it these days, the edge is not there imo.


Bulls back in the day without Jordan in the lineup is worth x points.

Fill in x

[Valuist]

I had a guy who focused on what he referred to as "calandar games". He was very sharp, but in the end the NBA got him. Only a few guys beat it these days, the edge is not there imo.


Bulls back in the day without Jordan in the lineup is worth x points.

Fill in x

I think totals are more beatable than sides, with the NBA. But there's opportunities with sides as well. But one has to be very selective. Rarely make more than two plays in a day.

[BetHorses!]

I think totals are more beatable than sides, with the NBA. But there's opportunities with sides as well. But one has to be very selective. Rarely make more than two plays in a day.

Agree about totals but limits are much lower. Its hard to quantify what these scheduling disadvantages are worth. Had a discussion other day about Jordan who imo is best player ever. When not in lineup what was it worth, 2.5- 3 pts to the line?

[Valuist]

Agree about totals but limits are much lower. Its hard to quantify what these scheduling disadvantages are worth. Had a discussion other day about Jordan who imo is best player ever. When not in lineup what was it worth, 2.5- 3 pts to the line?

I heard Jordan was worth 7 points. Shaq at his peak was around 6.5. Haven't heard on Lebron but he'd have to be close to 7.

Sportsinsights has a good database. Not real great for finding scheduling angles, but other angles. They still do exist, but have to do quite a bit of trial and error.

[BetHorses!]

I heard Jordan was worth 7 points. Shaq at his peak was around 6.5. Haven't heard on Lebron but he'd have to be close to 7.

Sportsinsights has a good database. Not real great for finding scheduling angles, but other angles. They still do exist, but have to do quite a bit of trial and error.

That seems high to me. If Bulls were -10 home agst Knicks...without MJ the game is -3 ??

[Valuist]

That seems high to me. If Bulls were -10 home agst Knicks...without MJ the game is -3 ??

Yes, I have heard sportsbook oddsmakers say that. And it may have been for only a season or two. Not necessarily his entire career.

In the NFL, I've heard oddsmakers say they've adjusted Green Bay down 10 points since Aaron Rodgers got hurt, and they finally got their first spread cover this past week since Rodgers was out. We saw how horrible the 2011 Colts were when Manning couldn't play. He had to be worth close to 10 points to that team. But one also has to take into account the value of the replacement. Going from Joe Montana to Steve Young isn't much of a drop off; certainly not compared to Manning to Kerry Collins/Curtis Painter.

[Valuist]

I don't love betting against the Spurs, who've been as solid as any organization over the past decade plus, but they find themselves in a tough spot. Not just the 2nd of a back to back, but their 7th game in 10 days, and all but one of those games was on the road. Last game of a long road trip, and tough borderstate rival OK-C in the on deck circle this weekend. Taking the Warriors and laying the small price (-2.5).

[cj]

I don't love betting against the Spurs, who've been as solid as any organization over the past decade plus, but they find themselves in a tough spot. Not just the 2nd of a back to back, but their 7th game in 10 days, and all but one of those games was on the road. Last game of a long road trip, and tough borderstate rival OK-C in the on deck circle this weekend. Taking the Warriors and laying the small price (-2.5).

Not to mention Parker is out too, last I heard anyway.

[lansdale]

Thx

I have but it is very time consuming. Almost all my plays are scheduling related, or work within a few angles I have. You will never hear me say "I believe team A is more talented than team B, so I will bet team A." Never. I know the linemaker will generally have all the talent factored in. But no team can go all-out for 82 games. Not the Jordan-Pippen Bulls, not the Shaq-Kobe Lakers or the Lebron-Wade Heat. Another recent example was Indiana the other day. They were playing Detroit Monday night but the game tonight against the Heat was where the Pacers' focus figured to be. Sure enough, Detroit won outright.

I hear you. I definitely get the feeling from friends who know the NBA better than myself that spot plays are more the way to go now.

Cheers,

lansdale

[Valuist]

Not to mention Parker is out too, last I heard anyway.

Yes, he's out. This would be a play even if he was playing. But if he's playing the Spurs aren't getting 2.5 pts.

But I won't be shocked if SA pulls this out. Pop did a pretty good job alloting minutes (as he always does) played last night, even though the game was in single digits virtually the entire time.

[Valuist]

I hear you. I definitely get the feeling from friends who know the NBA better than myself that spot plays are more the way to go now.

Cheers,

lansdale

All situational, IMO.

[lansdale]

I don't love betting against the Spurs, who've been as solid as any organization over the past decade plus, but they find themselves in a tough spot. Not just the 2nd of a back to back, but their 7th game in 10 days, and all but one of those games was on the road. Last game of a long road trip, and tough borderstate rival OK-C in the on deck circle this weekend. Taking the Warriors and laying the small price (-2.5).

Hi Valuist,

As cj mentioned, Parker, still suffering from the shin bruise from the Clips' game, is out for tonight. This seems to be reflected in the line. I see what you're saying, but spread is a little tricky for me. If Spurs hold Curry to under 25 and one or two Spur role players get hot, could go either way. I wouldn't touch this. But I would take the over - GSW doesn't play much D.

Cheers,

lansdale

[Valuist]

Hi Valuist,

As cj mentioned, Parker, still suffering from the shin bruise from the Clips' game, is out for tonight. This seems to be reflected in the line. I see what you're saying, but spread is a little tricky for me. If Spurs hold Curry to under 25 and one or two Spur role players get hot, could go either way. I wouldn't touch this. But I would take the over - GSW doesn't play much D.

Cheers,

lansdale

I would lean to over as well. GS doesn't play much D, but the Spurs haven't played their usual D recently, either. SA allowed over 100 once in their first 16 games; In their last 9 games, they've allowed over 100 seven times. A couple of Over refs as well.

[Valuist]

Huge line move to GS minus 6.5 and even 7 in some spots. Turns out both Duncan and Ginobli will not play.

[BetHorses!]

Huge line move to GS minus 6.5 and even 7 in some spots. Turns out both Duncan and Ginobli will not play.

The guys who laid it early sittin pretty

[lansdale]

Huge line move to GS minus 6.5 and even 7 in some spots. Turns out both Duncan and Ginobli will not play.

Seems to be an easy play now. Looks like Pop resting big three for OKC on Sat..

[cj]

Afraid of OKC...

[lansdale]

The Spurs have looked a little flat lately, and Parker seemed a bit tired even before he got hurt. So you don't want to risk a loss to your main WC rival on your home court because your aging stars are feeling their years. But I think Kawhi Leonard is the guy who will really need to pick it up on Sat.. His lack of aggression can be a drawback at times.

[cj]

The Spurs have looked a little flat lately, and Parker seemed a bit tired even before he got hurt. So you don't want to risk a loss to your main WC rival on your home court because your aging stars are feeling their years. But I think Kawhi Leonard is the guy who will really need to pick it up on Sat.. His lack of aggression can be a drawback at times.

Yeah, I'm just teasing. They are older, it is probably a smart thing. Leonard can be a beast at times. Nobody really stops Durant, but he does a good a job as anyone.

[Stillriledup]

No Parker (injury) no Ginobili (rest) and no Duncan (rest) tonight in GS, hence, Warriors 7 pt chalk.

[BetHorses!]

Disgusting loss. Especially when u lay the best number and beat the close by 4 pts...ugh

Back to the MJ worth 7 pts... can we say SA big 3 are worth 4 pts to the line?

[Valuist]

Disgusting loss. Especially when u lay the best number and beat the close by 4 pts...ugh

Back to the MJ worth 7 pts... can we say SA big 3 are worth 4 pts to the line?

It wasn't that bad. I lost the GS -2.5 bet but took the Spurs at +6.5, hoping for the middle. Middling isn't going to happen a lot, but I believe it is ALWAYS the right thing to do, given a four point move.

Several take aways from the game: Golden State was in a perfect spot; the equivalent of a horse sitting 3rd behind two battling leaders thru fast fractions. They couldn't ask for a better setup and still lost.

The Spurs gave up over 100 pts now for the 8th time in 10 games. They are going to have to play better D if they want to beat an OK-C team who basically had a public workout last night against a bad Bulls team.

As for your last question, I would say Duncan and Ginobli are worth 4 pts. It was pretty well established Parker was out when the line came out GS -2.5 If all 3 play, my guess is the line would've come out SA minus 1 or 1 1/2. I would think Parker is worth probably 3.5 to 4.

[cj]

Disgusting loss. Especially when u lay the best number and beat the close by 4 pts...ugh

Back to the MJ worth 7 pts... can we say SA big 3 are worth 4 pts to the line?

Kind of depends on who is backing them up too I would think. The Spurs are deeper than most teams.

[cj]

... if they want to beat an OK-C team who basically had a public workout last night against a bad Bulls team.

I rarely ever get on officials any more in the NBA, but last night was horrible. I have to think there was an edict given to keep it respectable. I don't know how it finished, but FTs were 30-5 at one point for the Bulls, and Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka all had two pretty quickly.

I told my wife at the game, once I saw Mauer was officiating, that would we get a tech before the first half ended. I don't think we made it half way through the first quarter.

[lansdale]

Yeah, I'm just teasing. They are older, it is probably a smart thing. Leonard can be a beast at times. Nobody really stops Durant, but he does a good a job as anyone.

Hi cj,

They say Pop is still replaying the R. Alken 3-pointer daily in his mind, so he may be more careful than ever. Should be a great game on Sat.. I will make one prediction - Spurs will snuff Reggie Jackson this time, no more 23 point games for him vs. them.

Cheers,

lansdale

[lansdale]

It wasn't that bad. I lost the GS -2.5 bet but took the Spurs at +6.5, hoping for the middle. Middling isn't going to happen a lot, but I believe it is ALWAYS the right thing to do, given a four point move.

Several take aways from the game: Golden State was in a perfect spot; the equivalent of a horse sitting 3rd behind two battling leaders thru fast fractions. They couldn't ask for a better setup and still lost.

The Spurs gave up over 100 pts now for the 8th time in 10 games. They are going to have to play better D if they want to beat an OK-C team who basically had a public workout last night against a bad Bulls team.

As for your last question, I would say Duncan and Ginobli are worth 4 pts. It was pretty well established Parker was out when the line came out GS -2.5 If all 3 play, my guess is the line would've come out SA minus 1 or 1 1/2. I would think Parker is worth probably 3.5 to 4.

Hi Valuist,

Agree with most of what you say here, though I'm expert. BTW, we did have the 'over' if closing line was the 203 I caught.

lansdale

[cj]

Hi cj,

They say Pop is still replaying the R. Alken 3-pointer daily in his mind, so he may be more careful than ever. Should be a great game on Sat.. I will make one prediction - Spurs will snuff Reggie Jackson this time, no more 23 point games for him vs. them.

Cheers,

lansdale

Reggie is a beast. Most NBA fans have no idea just how good this guy has gotten.

[lansdale]

Kind of depends on who is backing them up too I would think. The Spurs are deeper than most teams.

The Spurs eked out a win over a slightly better than .500 team without the big 3 (considering Ginobli's condition, let's say 'big 2.5'), because the second unit, usually led by Ginobli, is itself about a .600 team. As many (like SRU) have noticed, this is pretty close to how they play most of the season. Parker averages, 30 min., Duncan, 28 minutes, Ginobli 23 - and against teams like this, and worse, they play fewer minutes, sometimes many fewer than their averages. I think this is why the public was surprised by how tough they were in last year's championship - that's how it would be if they were physically capable of playing 35 minutes during the full season.

[lansdale]

Reggie is a beast. Most NBA fans have no idea just how good this guy has gotten.

If R Jackson is as you say, and Spurs can't shut him down, he is the 3rd scorer OKC needs to win championship. Should be interesting on Sat..

[Valuist]

I rarely ever get on officials any more in the NBA, but last night was horrible. I have to think there was an edict given to keep it respectable. I don't know how it finished, but FTs were 30-5 at one point for the Bulls, and Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka all had two pretty quickly.

I told my wife at the game, once I saw Mauer was officiating, that would we get a tech before the first half ended. I don't think we made it half way through the first quarter.

I had no wager on the Bulls-Thunder game and only saw a little. I listened a little when I was in the car and they did point out the large FT discrepancy.

Wouldn't surprise me if they were shading things to keep it more interesting. Before the season started, TNT or TBS was probably thinking this would be a great matchup.

[Valuist]

Hi Valuist,

Agree with most of what you say here, though I'm expert. BTW, we did have the 'over' if closing line was the 203 I caught.

lansdale

I had over at 202.5. I never did get 7 on the takeback with the Spurs, but 6.5 was more than good enough. It got up to 7 in some places.

[cj]

If R Jackson is as you say, and Spurs can't shut him down, he is the 3rd scorer OKC needs to win championship. Should be interesting on Sat..

I honestly (not as a fan) don't think the Spurs have a chance to beat OKC in a 7 game series. They simply aren't athletic enough any longer. The NBA is about match ups, and we are a bad match up for the Spurs, just like Miami and Golden State are bad match ups for the Thunder.

Match ups don't matter if there is a big talent discrepancy, I mean among teams that are close. I also don't mean this as saying the Spurs can't beat the Thunder on Saturday, of course they can.

[lansdale]

I honestly (not as a fan) don't think the Spurs have a chance to beat OKC in a 7 game series. They simply aren't athletic enough any longer. The NBA is about match ups, and we are a bad match up for the Spurs, just like Miami and Golden State are bad match ups for the Thunder.

Match ups don't matter if there is a big talent discrepancy, I mean among teams that are close. I also don't mean this as saying the Spurs can't beat the Thunder on Saturday, of course they can.

I haven't been watching as much NBA this season as in recent years, so I don't have as strong opinion as usual. These teams still look pretty close to me, from what I have seen.

I agree with you OKC is better if Jackson holds up in the post-season, but I don't see it yet - yes, he's still young but Leonard, a year younger, is a much stronger player, and Durant and Westbrook at the same age, 23, were clear-cut future HOF players. I think the athleticism argument is dubious - this is what used to be said in '80s about Celts vs. Lakers, and in 2011, Mavs vs. Heat - doesn't always work out.

Spurs have a stronger bench, OKC, better 3-point defense, which becomes much more important in post-season. As I said, very difficult to separate. Jackson is still my heuristic.

[cj]

I haven't been watching as much NBA this season as in recent years, so I don't have as strong opinion as usual. These teams still look pretty close to me, from what I have seen.

I agree with you OKC is better if Jackson holds up in the post-season, but I don't see it yet - yes, he's still young but Leonard, a year younger, is a much stronger player, and Durant and Westbrook at the same age, 23, were clear-cut future HOF players. I think the athleticism argument is dubious - this is what used to be said in '80s about Celts vs. Lakers, and in 2011, Mavs vs. Heat - doesn't always work out.

Spurs have a stronger bench, OKC, better 3-point defense, which becomes much more important in post-season. As I said, very difficult to separate. Jackson is still my heuristic.

I'm not sure the Spurs have a stronger bench to be honest. Thunder has Jackson, Lamb, Adams, Collison, PJ3, and Fisher (who I wish would go away!)

It isn't just the "athletic" part. For whatever reason, the Thunder have beaten them 7 of last 8 I think, and the one loss was a buzzer beater by Parker on opening night last year in a game the Thunder controlled for a long time.

I wasn't trying to say Jackson is a Hall of Famer or anything, but he is really good. He'd start for most teams in the NBA. His finishing in the paint is off the charts. As for the playoffs, he actually played well when Westbrook went down last year. He is going to cost OKC a nice chunk of money, but unlike Harden, he won't be a max guy, so I think he is here for a while.

[lansdale]

Hi cj,

As far as the 7/8 OKC wins go, this is misleading and untrue. First, I think it's a mistake to go back so far as the 2011-2012 season, to include games when these two teams were really different. The 2011-2012 OKC team, which included James Harden, and went on to the championship round vs. the Heat, was a better team than the 2011-2012 Spurs, which featured a more physically challenged and less effective Tim Duncan, and also was a better team imho than any subsequent OKC roster.

If we look only at last season, and the first game of this season, since Harden left OKC, the two teams split their four games last year, with each winning games on their home turf, and OKC won the first game of this season, again, on their home floor. OKC record is 21-4, SAS record is 21-5. All of this tells me these two teams are very closely matched.

As far as bench play, I agree that Fish, once a very good player is a detriment at this point. Collison is a solid perimeter presence. I haven't really seen PJ play, but the others all look like very promising young players. But, except for Jackson, the others are very young, 20,21 or so. While they may be able to contribute during the regular season, I guarantee you, if they face the Spurs in the post-season, their effect will be either nil or negative. This is when experience matters.

One factor I might add is the more limited play of Westbrook. Compared to most players in the league, of course, he's still playing at a high level. But compared with his own HOF level of performance before the injury, there's been a drop-off; he's shooting 41% - his WS/48 has dropped from .19, near-HOF level to .12, low all-star level. Of course, he still has the abilities of an HOF player, but until he regains the level of his former play, I think OKC will have trouble getting past the Spurs in the post-season.

Line tonight is -3 Spurs, 204 o/u. Should be a helluva game ;-).

[lansdale]

Hi cj,

As far as the 7/8 OKC wins go, this is misleading and untrue. First, I think it's a mistake to go back so far as the 2011-2012 season, to include games when these two teams were really different. The 2011-2012 OKC team, which included James Harden, and went on to the championship round vs. the Heat, was a better team than the 2011-2012 Spurs, which featured a more physically challenged and less effective Tim Duncan, and also was a better team imho than any subsequent OKC roster.

If we look only at last season, and the first game of this season, since Harden left OKC, the two teams split their four games last year, with each winning games on their home turf, and OKC won the first game of this season, again, on their home floor. OKC record is 21-4, SAS record is 21-5. All of this tells me these two teams are very closely matched.

As far as bench play, I agree that Fish, once a very good player is a detriment at this point. Collison is a solid perimeter presence. I haven't really seen PJ play, but the others all look like very promising young players. But, except for Jackson, the others are very young, 20,21 or so. While they may be able to contribute during the regular season, I guarantee you, if they face the Spurs in the post-season, their effect will be either nil or negative. This is when experience matters.

One factor I might add is the more limited play of Westbrook. Compared to most players in the league, of course, he's still playing at a high level. But compared with his own HOF level of performance before the injury, there's been a drop-off; he's shooting 41% - his WS/48 has dropped from .19, near-HOF level to .12, low all-star level. Of course, he still has the abilities of an HOF player, but until he regains the level of his former play, I think OKC will have trouble getting past the Spurs in the post-season.

Line tonight is -3 Spurs, 204 o/u. Should be a helluva game ;-).

I meant Collison is a solid 'post' presence. Guess I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue. ;-)

[lansdale]

Hi Valuist,

Agree with most of what you say here, though I'm expert. BTW, we did have the 'over' if closing line was the 203 I caught.

lansdale

Should read 'I'm no expert'. Gotta cut down on these auto-replies.

[cj]

Apparently, Leonard would rather get a root canal than guard KD!

Nice half by the Thunder. Only the refs falling for Parker's endless flopping keeping it close. I still fully expect this to go to the wire.

[lansdale]

Apparently, Leonard would rather get a root canal than guard KD!

Nice half by the Thunder. Only the refs falling for Parker's endless flopping keeping it close. I still fully expect this to go to the wire.

Hi cj,

Loved the intensity of this game - wish every NBA game could be like this. And by my 'R. Jackson' heuristic, I now think OKC has a real shot at the title. The Spurs couldn't stop him. In fact, they couldn't stop anybody tonight, and I agree with Valuist, after not having watched them in recent weeks, that they're overall defense may be beginning to break down.

Obviously, things would have been somewhat closer if Leonard had played, but the Spurs biggest deficiency, which is more obvious vs. OKC (and was also the case in the 2012 WC finals) would be the same - the inability to close out vs. 3-point shooters. I would say that ca. 70% of OKC 3s were wide-open, with either Ginobli or Belinelli failing to contest the shot. At the highest level of the NBA , the ability to both shoot 3s and defend the 3-point line are crucial, because all the best teams are capable of stretching the defense. I think that Spurs really need to acquire a quick small like Shane Battier, who can do both, if they are serious about contending.

One thing that surprised me was Parker's ignoring open 3-shooters and taking the ball into the paint even late in the game when the Spurs were trailing. It's almost as though he regarded this as a mano-mano thing with Westbrook who really was excellent.

One positive thing about the games between these two - despite the intensity, apparently no bad blood out there.

Cheers

lansdale

[cj]

The Thunder obviously have two of the best five players in the league, but the bench is just so good right now. Pretty sure the combo of Jackson, Lamb, Jones (who didn't even play last night) Collison, and Adams can hang with a lot of team's starters.

[lansdale]

The Thunder obviously have two of the best five players in the league, but the bench is just so good right now. Pretty sure the combo of Jackson, Lamb, Jones (who didn't even play last night) Collison, and Adams can hang with a lot of team's starters.

No question, these guys can play, but I think Jackson is really the X factor. We'll just have to see if SAS makes any adjustments. However, if the Thunder do end up in the finals, I would think the Pacers and Heat would present more serious match-up problems for Jackson than the Spurs, even as amazingly quick as he is. Should be a great post-season, especially in the west.

BTW, loved that scoop shot, but he did move his pivot foot. Watch the replay. ;-)

[cj]

No question, these guys can play, but I think Jackson is really the X factor. We'll just have to see if SAS makes any adjustments. However, if the Thunder do end up in the finals, I would think the Pacers and Heat would present more serious match-up problems for Jackson than the Spurs, even as amazingly quick as he is. Should be a great post-season, especially in the west.

BTW, loved that scoop shot, but he did move his pivot foot. Watch the replay. ;-)

Thunder laid an egg against the Raptors, guess they were due for one.

We are a nightmare match up for the Pacers, have beaten them handily at least the last three times. The Heat are another story.

[lansdale]

Thunder laid an egg against the Raptors, guess they were due for one.

We are a nightmare match up for the Pacers, have beaten them handily at least the last three times. The Heat are another story.

I'm guessing that guys like Battier, Chalmers, and Jones are capable of checking Jackson, who, maybe significantly, went 1-11 last night. He does appear to be the key to the championship. The main guys will always get their points.

[cj]

Westbrook out again, minor knee scope, until after the All Star break. Surgery may be minor, but it isn't a good sign IMO. Three surgeries in 6 or 7 months now.

[lansdale]

Westbrook out again, minor knee scope, until after the All Star break. Surgery may be minor, but it isn't a good sign IMO. Three surgeries in 6 or 7 months now.

This is sad news. Add to the Rose and Kobe situations, this is really an unfortunate development for the NBA. It seems as though the toll that the ever-increasing physicality and explosiveness of the game is just too high a price to pay to make that style of play sustainable. But I don't know if there's any alternative.


lansdale

[Valuist]

This is sad news. Add to the Rose and Kobe situations, this is really an unfortunate development for the NBA. It seems as though the toll that the ever-increasing physicality and explosiveness of the game is just too high a price to pay to make that style of play sustainable. But I don't know if there's any alternative.


lansdale

That was my point about Chris Paul not shouldering too big of a scoring burden. When point guards penetrate a lot, they take a lot of contact and stress, and on comes the injuries.

[Valuist]

Gonna take Orlando at -2 at home vs Atlanta. Atlanta is a strong fade after not only playing OT last night, but coming off 3 straight overtime games.

[cj]

That was my point about Chris Paul not shouldering too big of a scoring burden. When point guards penetrate a lot, they take a lot of contact and stress, and on comes the injuries.

Westbrook's injury had nothing to do with any of this.

[Valuist]

Gonna take Orlando at -2 at home vs Atlanta. Atlanta is a strong fade after not only playing OT last night, but coming off 3 straight overtime games.

Another cash. NBA is very good to bet, provided one is selective.

[Valuist]

Chicago @ Memphis OVER 179

I guess a contrarian play betting the Bulls over in any game. Line opens at 183, so that was the time to bet under so now a 4 point move. Then the ref assignments come out: Lewis is a huge over ref (63-32 L2 years) and Poole is 40-30 over L2 years. The big line moves don't always win, and sometimes when they do, its only those who get in earlier (i.e. at 183 or 182.5) that get the money.

[lansdale]

Chicago @ Memphis OVER 179

I guess a contrarian play betting the Bulls over in any game. Line opens at 183, so that was the time to bet under so now a 4 point move. Then the ref assignments come out: Lewis is a huge over ref (63-32 L2 years) and Poole is 40-30 over L2 years. The big line moves don't always win, and sometimes when they do, its only those who get in earlier (i.e. at 183 or 182.5) that get the money.

Nice to see you still on a roll with these picks. Especially on this one, I would have taken the under.

Cheers,

lansdale

[Valuist]

Nice to see you still on a roll with these picks. Especially on this one, I would have taken the under.

Cheers,

lansdale

Thx

OKLA CITY (-5) over Portland

This is an anti-Portland play as the Blazers may have hit a wall after a tremendous start. 4-3 SU in their last 7 but 0-7 ATS in that span as the team has struggled on the defensive end. Played last night and had a 2 pt loss to New Orleans as 4 starters racked up high minutes. Before that, it was a 1 pt loss to a Lebron James free Miami team Saturday night, and before that, an OT win over the Clippers on Thursday, so each of their last 3 has been difficult. Even with no Westbrook, the Thunder should be able to put away this Blazer team by margin.

[Valuist]

The Thunder couldn't come thru and beat Portland despite the good situation.

Atlanta +3 over Golden St

Golden State has now won 7 in a row including big win over Heat last night. Warriors shot over 56% from field and over 50% from beyond the arc. Teams who beat Miami tend to pay a price the next game, esp if its on no rest. GS may have some talented shooters but expecting some regression to the mean, along with letdown and fatigue to be their undoing.

[Stillriledup]

The Thunder couldn't come thru and beat Portland despite the good situation.

Atlanta +3 over Golden St

Golden State has now won 7 in a row including big win over Heat last night. Warriors shot over 56% from field and over 50% from beyond the arc. Teams who beat Miami tend to pay a price the next game, esp if its on no rest. GS may have some talented shooters but expecting some regression to the mean, along with letdown and fatigue to be their undoing.

I'd bet Utah at LAL, Lakers are pathetic, i'm not sure they can beat anyone at this point.

[Valuist]

The Thunder couldn't come thru and beat Portland despite the good situation.

Atlanta +3 over Golden St

Golden State has now won 7 in a row including big win over Heat last night. Warriors shot over 56% from field and over 50% from beyond the arc. Teams who beat Miami tend to pay a price the next game, esp if its on no rest. GS may have some talented shooters but expecting some regression to the mean, along with letdown and fatigue to be their undoing.

Even though the Warriors are in the midst of a 10 game win streak, Atlanta bettors got the money as GS only won by 1.

Wednesday: Boston +11 at LaC

Sure the Clippers are more likely to win, but no Chris Paul and laying double digits doesn't leave much margin for error, especially against a Celtic team coming off a blowout loss. With the new first year coach, I expect them to play hard for 48 minutes tonight, which they clearly did not do last night.

[Valuist]

Even though the Warriors are in the midst of a 10 game win streak, Atlanta bettors got the money as GS only won by 1.

Wednesday: Boston +11 at LaC

Sure the Clippers are more likely to win, but no Chris Paul and laying double digits doesn't leave much margin for error, especially against a Celtic team coming off a blowout loss. With the new first year coach, I expect them to play hard for 48 minutes tonight, which they clearly did not do last night.

An ugly win still gets the money. Celtics hung around to get the money.

Ok-C/Denver Over 209.5

Denver was in a big under run; 2-14 to the under until their last 4 games, which have all gone over the total. They are going to try to run and gun an OK-C team which is coming off a poor defensive effort vs Utah. To make matters worse for the Thunder, both Ibaka and Sefolosha, two of their more defensive minded players, are listed as questionable.

[cj]

To make matters worse for the Thunder, both Ibaka and Sefolosha, two of their more defensive minded players, are listed as questionable.

Both are playing.

[Valuist]

Both are playing.

But doubtful they will be 100%.

Probable- will play and injury not likely to impact performance
Questionable- good chance to play but performance likely impacted
Doubtful- will not play

[cj]

But doubtful they will be 100%.

Probable- will play and injury not likely to impact performance
Questionable- good chance to play but performance likely impacted
Doubtful- will not play

Ibaka was sick, not injured. He had the flu. He is fine.

Sefalosha jammed his finger, shouldn't really affect his defense, and his offense sucks anyway.

[Valuist]

Went to bed at halftime with the score 60-51, thinking the over had a good shot. Both teams struggled big time offensively in the second half, only putting up 78 points.

OK-C now has played 8 games without Westbrook:

With Westbrook: Thunder scores 106 a game and gives up 98
Without Westbrook: They score 102 a game and give up 98

A four point difference in a power rating isn't insignificant. The Thunder clearly miss Westbrook on the offensive side. Last night, Durant had 24 of their 51 first half points.

[Valuist]

Cleveland +3 over UTAH

Cleveland made the big trade the other day and now has had a couple days of practice to get Deng acclimated. Deng will help on both ends of the floor, and then there's addition by subtraction: getting rid of a cancer like Bynum will only be a positive. Cavaliers not far out of the last playoff spot, and the team has to figure management is making positive changes.

[cj]

The Thunder offense is a mess without Westbrook. They have no structure with or without him, but without it becomes KD or bust. Westbrook is a very good defender. The only reason the defense looks the same is they are playing slower.

[Valuist]

The Thunder offense is a mess without Westbrook. They have no structure with or without him, but without it becomes KD or bust. Westbrook is a very good defender. The only reason the defense looks the same is they are playing slower.

Interesting. I'm going to have to check out the possessions numbers but that would take a while to change in the linemaker's power ratings. They are really quick to adjust team power ratings for the spread but totals power ratings can lag.

[Valuist]

Cleveland +3 over UTAH

Cleveland made the big trade the other day and now has had a couple days of practice to get Deng acclimated. Deng will help on both ends of the floor, and then there's addition by subtraction: getting rid of a cancer like Bynum will only be a positive. Cavaliers not far out of the last playoff spot, and the team has to figure management is making positive changes.

Cavs made Deng's debut with them a winning one.

Tuesday: Sacra-Indiana UNDER 194

Kings off their two best defensive efforts of the year; granted, against not the best competition but gave up only 83 and 80 in last two. Now they will face the top defensive team in the league. Think this doesn't reach the 190 mark.

[Stillriledup]

Here's some SRU picks for this evening.

Wizards +5.5

Wiz looked good the other night beating Chi, Miami hasnt played in eon's and was allegedly hanging out at the white house this week.

Sac Kings +9.5

Kings are better than record indicates, have been playing ok of late, this is a lot of points, hopefully Rudy and DeMarcus can keep this one close.

Suns -10.5

Lakers are probably the worst team in the NBA at this point. Dreadful. I'm not sure they can beat anyone and are coming off a "hard fought" loss last night at home vs a bad team.

[cj]

Craziest game you'll ever see last night...73 points in the first half for the Rockets, and they barely cracked 90 for the game. NBA record for differential in two halves...54 points.

[Valuist]

Craziest game you'll ever see last night...73 points in the first half for the Rockets, and they barely cracked 90 for the game. NBA record for differential in two halves...54 points.

I know this comes across as a redboard but Houston was in a rough spot last night. Teams in their first game back from road trips (4 games or more) tend to perform very poorly. They also were in the 2nd of a back to back in which they had a stressful game in game 1 (3 pt win).

[Valuist]

Lakers are probably the worst team in the NBA at this point. Dreadful. I'm not sure they can beat anyone and are coming off a "hard fought" loss last night at home vs a bad team.

Have you seen Milwaukee?

[cj]

Best individual performance I've seen in person in any sport tonight, just incredible.

[Stillriledup]

Have you seen Milwaukee?

Lakers "improved" a bit last night, but i can't imagine they're much better than Milw.

[Valuist]

Best individual performance I've seen in person in any sport tonight, just incredible.

Durant was amazing. How about this: GS shot 16 of 27 from beyond the arc.....and still lost. That is difficult to do. Basically have one guy to stop and they let him hang a 54 on them.

[cj]

Lakers "improved" a bit last night, but i can't imagine they're much better than Milw.

Everybody is much better than Milwaukee.

[cj]

bzfdA6G1C-0

[Stillriledup]

Everybody is much better than Milwaukee.

Not true. Lakers were 12-12 or 13-13 at one point and they're 2-8 in their last 10 while looking like a D league team. They're not much better than anybody. They're a different team than the one who went .500 in first 20 something games of the season.

[cj]

Not true. Lakers were 12-12 or 13-13 at one point and they're 2-8 in their last 10 while looking like a D league team. They're not much better than anybody. They're a different team than the one who went .500 in first 20 something games of the season.

Yeah, but Milwaukee is awful. It is true. They are on another level of awfulness.

[Stillriledup]

Yeah, but Milwaukee is awful. It is true. They are on another level of awfulness.

Its hard to fathom that theres a team out there worse than the lakers, but i take your word for it that Milw is just as pathetic.

Milw was supposed to be "ok" this year, their O/U in vegas for wins was 28.5 maybe they have a bunch of guys hurt.

[Valuist]

Not true. Lakers were 12-12 or 13-13 at one point and they're 2-8 in their last 10 while looking like a D league team. They're not much better than anybody. They're a different team than the one who went .500 in first 20 something games of the season.

Lakers are 2-8 in their last 10, but the Bucks are 1-9 in their last 10.

Season: Milwaukee 7-31 net minus 8.7 pts/game
Lakers 15-25 record net minus 5.5 pts/game

The Bucks are on pace to win 15 games for the entire season; the Lakers have already hit the 15 win mark. Milwaukee is historically bad.

[Stillriledup]

Lakers are 2-8 in their last 10, but the Bucks are 1-9 in their last 10.

Season: Milwaukee 7-31 net minus 8.7 pts/game
Lakers 15-25 record net minus 5.5 pts/game

The Bucks are on pace to win 15 games for the entire season; the Lakers have already hit the 15 win mark. Milwaukee is historically bad.

Im just talking about the team NOW, not their current record. My point was that the Lakers are much worse now than they were in the beginning of the year, so while they will finish with a much better record than Milw, right now, they are horrendous. Sure, its possible that Milw is worse, but i was suggesting the gap is close and not as wide as CJ thinks it is.

[cj]

Im just talking about the team NOW, not their current record. My point was that the Lakers are much worse now than they were in the beginning of the year, so while they will finish with a much better record than Milw, right now, they are horrendous. Sure, its possible that Milw is worse, but i was suggesting the gap is close and not as wide as CJ thinks it is.

The Lakers won a road game against a pretty decent Toronto team yesterday. The gap is not that close.

[lansdale]

Best individual performance I've seen in person in any sport tonight, just incredible.

Just saw the highlights - can't help but be blow away. I believe that Durant is going to surpass LBJ in the long run, and may be the only active player with a shot at challenging the total points records of Jabbar and Malone. He may be one of the top 5 players ever to play the game. You're very lucky to be able to see this guy live on a regular basis.

Cheers,

lansdale

[Valuist]

Just saw the highlights - can't help but be blow away. I believe that Durant is going to surpass LBJ in the long run, and may be the only active player with a shot at challenging the total points records of Jabbar and Malone. He may be one of the top 5 players ever to play the game. You're very lucky to be able to see this guy live on a regular basis.

Cheers,

lansdale

Durant is a great player, but I will be surprised if he eclipses Lebron. That is pretty lofty expectations.

[Stillriledup]

The Lakers won a road game against a pretty decent Toronto team yesterday. The gap is not that close.

Its not now, Lakers are improved...but it was close recently during the Lakers recent slide.

[cj]

Its not now, Lakers are improved...but it was close recently during the Lakers recent slide.

So it was close, but now that they won two games with the same players, it isn't close? Yeah, that makes sense.

[Stillriledup]

So it was close, but now that they won two games with the same players, it isn't close? Yeah, that makes sense.

Its not the same players. Also, Gasol was battling sickness and injury and he's better now.

[cj]

Its not the same players. Also, Gasol was battling sickness and injury and he's better now.

I admire that you will go to any lengths to defend a bad opinion. Who were the new players the last two games? Gasol was sick/injured for 10 games? Come on man...

[Stillriledup]

I admire that you will go to any lengths to defend a bad opinion. Who were the new players the last two games? Gasol was sick/injured for 10 games? Come on man...

Guys don't heel overnight. When you're sick and or injured, you don't get better a day later. It takes time.

[Stillriledup]

This stretch from Dec 31 to Jan 15th, they were the worst in the NBA and were on a par (and i'm being nice to them) with Milwaukee. They've gotten better in the last few games, but during that stretch they were HARD to watch. They werent better than anyone.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/gametracker/recap/NBA_20131231_MIL@LAL

[cj]

This stretch from Dec 31 to Jan 15th, they were the worst in the NBA and were on a par (and i'm being nice to them) with Milwaukee. They've gotten better in the last few games, but during that stretch they were HARD to watch. They werent better than anyone.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/gametracker/recap/NBA_20131231_MIL@LAL

They were still the better team, just not playing as well. One game in the NBA season doesn't mean much, and neither does any stretch of ten games. The Bucks are horrible, the Lakers are just bad. It isn't even an argument.

[Stillriledup]

They were still the better team, just not playing as well. One game in the NBA season doesn't mean much, and neither does any stretch of ten games. The Bucks are horrible, the Lakers are just bad. It isn't even an argument.

Man, you're stubborn, i'll give you that. I just posted a thread where Milw just killed the Lakers in LA and you're trying to convince me that at that moment in time (late Dec early Jan) the lakers were a much better team?

You might want to stop talking about the NBA and go back and figure out how Spellbound paid 35$ in a 200k Graded race, maybe you missed something on your fancy figures.

[cj]

Man, you're stubborn, i'll give you that. I just posted a thread where Milw just killed the Lakers in LA and you're trying to convince me that at that moment in time (late Dec early Jan) the lakers were a much better team?

You might want to stop talking about the NBA and go back and figure out how Spellbound paid 35$ in a 200k Graded race, maybe you missed something on your fancy figures.

This is what you said on Jan 18, two days ago:

Its hard to fathom that theres a team out there worse than the lakers, but i take your word for it that Milw is just as pathetic.

Milw was supposed to be "ok" this year, their O/U in vegas for wins was 28.5 maybe they have a bunch of guys hurt.

I told you Milwaukee was a worse team, period. Then you started changing the rules. You said you would take my word for it, but instead you go on and on doing the opposite. And, to make your argument even more moronic, they have won two road games since you made that post.

You clearly had not even watched Milwaukee play, yet you still think you are an expert. League Pass is free this week, check out some games so you can make a few educated posts.

As far as my figures, she looked just fine on them. Who said I missed anything? I'll assume you are just guessing like most of your other posts, just like you guess MIL has a bunch of players hurt, which they don't.

[cj]

Guys don't heel overnight. When you're sick and or injured, you don't get better a day later. It takes time.

Can't help but notice you didn't name any different players.

[lansdale]

Durant is a great player, but I will be surprised if he eclipses Lebron. That is pretty lofty expectations.

Hi Valuist,

Obviously this is still speculative, and it seems to me that they both have a shot at breaking those records. But I believe that LBJ, due to the physical nature of his game, is going to wear down at a faster rate than Durant, who tends to elude defenders more than run over them. Still, SFs as a group tend not to last as long as PFs and centers - I don't think that any SF has yet scored more than 26k points. Both of these great players seem certain to do at least that. LBJ is already at 22k.

Cheers,

lansdale

[Stillriledup]

Can't help but notice you didn't name any different players.

It doesnt matter. They were horrendous for a 15 day stretch, visually they were the worst team out there. Now they're better.

[cj]

It doesnt matter. They were horrendous for a 15 day stretch, visually they were the worst team out there. Now they're better.

Then why say it? Just guessing as usual I'm sure. And the truth is you have no idea if they were visually worse than the Bucks, because you never saw the Bucks play.

[Stillriledup]

Then why say it? Just guessing as usual I'm sure. And the truth is you have no idea if they were visually worse than the Bucks, because you never saw the Bucks play.

Thanks for telling me about NBA center court on directv, i wouldnt have known it was on. :ThmbUp:

[cj]

Durant is on an incredible run right now. 46 points tonight on 17-25 shooting, 6-7 from 3. He is the clear cut MVP right now.

[lansdale]

Durant is on an incredible run right now. 46 points tonight on 17-25 shooting, 6-7 from 3. He is the clear cut MVP right now.

I was checking a few stats, comparing what Durant's doing now to the achievments of some of the greats. By the key measure of WS 48, Durant is now having not only a great season, but one of the best in NBA history. His current WS 48 is .3217. Only three players in the history of the game have had seasons in which they exceeded .30, Jabbar did it three times, Jordan three times, Lebron twice, and Chamberlain once. And he's still a couple of years away from his prime.

Stat link:http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_per_48_season.html

[Valuist]

Durant is on an incredible run right now. 46 points tonight on 17-25 shooting, 6-7 from 3. He is the clear cut MVP right now.

Including two treys in the final minute for the Thunder to gain a few new fans in Vegas.

[lansdale]

I was checking a few stats, comparing what Durant's doing now to the achievments of some of the greats. By the key measure of WS 48, Durant is now having not only a great season, but one of the best in NBA history. His current WS 48 is .3217. Only three players in the history of the game have had seasons in which they exceeded .30, Jabbar did it three times, Jordan three times, Lebron twice, and Chamberlain once. And he's still a couple of years away from his prime.

Stat link:http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_per_48_season.html

Should obviously read 'four' players rather than three have exceeded .30. Durant has a good shot at being #5.

[Stillriledup]

Durant is on an incredible run right now. 46 points tonight on 17-25 shooting, 6-7 from 3. He is the clear cut MVP right now.

Its like he's shooting beachballs into the ocean, making it look pretty easy at the moment. If he keeps it up anything close to what he's currently doing, he will win MVP, he's the best player at the moment.

[Valuist]

OKC-SA UNDER 205

Thunder in a second of back to back; OK-C is 4-10 to the under without Westbrook, and SA is 1-5 to the under since Splitter got hurt.

[lansdale]

Spurs are -5 tonight vs. OKC despite missing three or four players, and of course, Westbrook is still out. I like OKC to cover, but Spurs to get the win. Can Durant continue his amazing streak? I believe I know what cj thinks. Must-see NBA action.

[Stillriledup]

Spurs are -5 tonight vs. OKC despite missing three or four players, and of course, Westbrook is still out. I like OKC to cover, but Spurs to get the win. Can Durant continue his amazing streak? I believe I know what cj thinks. Must-see NBA action.

I'll be watching Houston vs Sacto.

Improved Kings getting 10 tonight.

[cj]

Spurs are -5 tonight vs. OKC despite missing three or four players, and of course, Westbrook is still out. I like OKC to cover, but Spurs to get the win. Can Durant continue his amazing streak? I believe I know what cj thinks. Must-see NBA action.

Actually watched here in Vegas, made a pure homer bet on the Thunder money line even though I didn't really think they would win. Reggie seems to stepped right in for Harden as the Spur killer.

[Valuist]

This Spurs team is NOT an elite team. Against OKC, Clippers, Indiana, Portland, Houston and Golden State, they are 1-8. Not against the spread. Straight up.

One of the worst defensive efforts I have ever seen from a Popovich coached team. OKC had open looks almost every time down the floor. If they had fresh legs, they would've hung 130 on the Spurs. Amazingly, it was the Spurs who were fresh with 2 days off but looked completely uninterested on the defensive end.

[Stillriledup]

Actually watched here in Vegas, made a pure homer bet on the Thunder money line even though I didn't really think they would win. Reggie seems to stepped right in for Harden as the Spur killer.

Mr October!

[lansdale]

Actually watched here in Vegas, made a pure homer bet on the Thunder money line even though I didn't really think they would win. Reggie seems to stepped right in for Harden as the Spur killer.

He really is the key for OKC vs. the Spurs. What's funny is he doesn't do this well vs. other teams - presumably they have somebody quick enough to check him. The Spurs don't, and unless they pick up someone who can, OKC is going to win the west easily.

I was only mildly surprised by this result, since both teams dealing with injuries - difficult to assess. But Spurs now without three starters, after Leonard got knocked out early last night. Time for Spurs GM to get on the phone.

Had to laugh seeing Belinelli on Durant.

[Valuist]

He really is the key for OKC vs. the Spurs. What's funny is he doesn't do this well vs. other teams - presumably they have somebody quick enough to check him. The Spurs don't, and unless they pick up someone who can, OKC is going to win the west easily.

I was only mildly surprised by this result, since both teams dealing with injuries - difficult to assess. But Spurs now without three starters, after Leonard got knocked out early last night. Time for Spurs GM to get on the phone.

Had to laugh seeing Belinelli on Durant.

I couldn't believe how poorly the Spurs defended. There were possessions when they didn't even make a move toward the Thunder player. No hands up, not moving the feet. There was one time a Thunder player got an offensive rebound about 5 feet from the basket. The Spurs basically said, "go ahead shoot". I think the guy was shocked how the just let him shoot, and he missed it. If the Spurs were in a 4 game in 5 day stretch, one could maybe rationalize it a bit. But they were coming off 2 days rest. This team is going nowhere.

[lansdale]

This Spurs team is NOT an elite team. Against OKC, Clippers, Indiana, Portland, Houston and Golden State, they are 1-8. Not against the spread. Straight up.

One of the worst defensive efforts I have ever seen from a Popovich coached team. OKC had open looks almost every time down the floor. If they had fresh legs, they would've hung 130 on the Spurs. Amazingly, it was the Spurs who were fresh with 2 days off but looked completely uninterested on the defensive end.

Worth mentioning that the Spurs have been without two of their best defensive players in Splitter and Green for awhile, and that Leonard missed some games against elite teams. Probably most significant is that Duncan has gone from being the #1 defensive-rated player in the league last season to #7 now, mirroring the team's overall drop from #3 to #8 in defense.

Difficult to know what's going on since the roster is almost identical with last year's. At times when I've watched them, they do seem to be dogging it on defense. One pattern vs. better teams I've noticed though, is that the Spurs will play decent D in the third quarter, and fall apart in the fourth, as with last night. The rim seems undefended, which makes me think that age is taking its toll on Duncan, who just can't get up and down the court as well.

I think we're just going to have to wait until the playoffs to see what this team is really made of.

Cheers,

lansdale

[lansdale]

I couldn't believe how poorly the Spurs defended. There were possessions when they didn't even make a move toward the Thunder player. No hands up, not moving the feet. There was one time a Thunder player got an offensive rebound about 5 feet from the basket. The Spurs basically said, "go ahead shoot". I think the guy was shocked how the just let him shoot, and he missed it. If the Spurs were in a 4 game in 5 day stretch, one could maybe rationalize it a bit. But they were coming off 2 days rest. This team is going nowhere.

The Spurs have clearly lapsed overall in defense, as we've discussed before. What you say here about the lack of effort, I've noticed in other Spur games vs. the teams that have beaten them. Try not to laugh, but I've been wondering if this is some kind of rope-a-dope aimed at the post-season. Aside from lulling opponents into overconfidence, it also conserves energy, always a key goal for the aging Spurs. As far as their record affects home-court in the post-season, the Spurs, a veteran team who play well on the road (better than at home!) need this less than almost anyone. I know it sounds bizarre, but it would explain the softened D.

Cheers,

lansdale

[Valuist]

The Spurs have clearly lapsed overall in defense, as we've discussed before. What you say here about the lack of effort, I've noticed in other Spur games vs. the teams that have beaten them. Try not to laugh, but I've been wondering if this is some kind of rope-a-dope aimed at the post-season. Aside from lulling opponents into overconfidence, it also conserves energy, always a key goal for the aging Spurs. As far as their record affects home-court in the post-season, the Spurs, a veteran team who play well on the road (better than at home!) need this less than almost anyone. I know it sounds bizarre, but it would explain the softened D.

Cheers,

lansdale

Popovich has been known to allot the playing time to conserve energy, even at the expense of some games. I think it was two years ago, the Spurs were on a national TV game against Dallas. They fell down by about 18-20 in the 3rd quarter and Pop removed his starters. The bench players caught fire, hit a bunch of 3s and ended up forcing OT. But Duncan, Parker and Ginobli never left the bench as the Spurs lost in OT. They played the next night and destroyed their opponent.

As for last night, I've never seen that kind of lack of physical effort from them. Maybe they just have aged a lot in the past year. Their poor record vs top opposition is certainly a tell that they won't advance far in the playoffs this year.

[cj]

Durant finally has a nickname that should stick...Slim Reaper.

[Stillriledup]

Durant finally has a nickname that should stick...Slim Reaper.

Not Durantula?

[cj]

Not Durantula?

He has never liked that name, and it didn't really stick. He said today he still prefers just KD.

[Stillriledup]

He has never liked that name, and it didn't really stick. He said today he still prefers just KD.

I agree, its kind of stupid.

Its too bad he doesnt have a nickname like "King" or "Magic" something befitting of royalty. Even "Doc" Rivers is nicknamed after DR J, you would think that KD can get a great nickname too.

[Valuist]

Heard an interesting fact today; 4 of the top 6 picks from last years NBA draft have COMBINED for a grand total of 135 points so far this season. So much for winning the "lottery". This has to be one of the worst rookie classes ever.

[Relwob Owner]

Heard an interesting fact today; 4 of the top 6 picks from last years NBA draft have COMBINED for a grand total of 135 points so far this season. So much for winning the "lottery". This has to be one of the worst rookie classes ever.


I was just talking about that with someone today. Outside of Carter-Williams, it looks terrible. Noel could end up being good down the road and maybe McLemore or Hardaway Jr. but so far, it looks bad.

[cj]

Durant...again. Just unbelievable right now.

Bucks are 1-12 in the last 13, with the one win coming against the stinky Pistons.

[Valuist]

Durant...again. Just unbelievable right now.

Bucks are 1-12 in the last 13, with the one win coming against the stinky Pistons.

Should be interesting Wednesday night when the Thunder take on the Heat. Thunder obviously sharp, having covered 7 in a row until last night while the Heat is going thru a January dog days with 3-6 ATS in their last 9. Thunder are playing slower without Westbrook, 6-12 to the under with him out. The Heat tend to pick and choose when they are going to go all out. I would have to think they will be putting in a stronger than usual defensive effort on Wednesday. Looking for to seeing that total.

[cj]

oh1sCtm7hjo

[lansdale]

Should be interesting Wednesday night when the Thunder take on the Heat. Thunder obviously sharp, having covered 7 in a row until last night while the Heat is going thru a January dog days with 3-6 ATS in their last 9. Thunder are playing slower without Westbrook, 6-12 to the under with him out. The Heat tend to pick and choose when they are going to go all out. I would have to think they will be putting in a stronger than usual defensive effort on Wednesday. Looking for to seeing that total.

Sounds like you're just going with totals on this game - two great defenses, I can see your point. However, the early number I'm seeing is Miami -4. That seems one or two points off to me, so that if that line is still there, I'd tend to do with OKC. Do you have a take on this or too murky to call?

[lansdale]

oh1sCtm7hjo

Seems like KD is going to have to keep the volume pumped up to win this one - can he stretch his streak of +30 pt. games to 12 against Heat D? Only a dozen players in NBA history have put together this kind of streak. I'll be watching.


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=285480

[lansdale]

Sounds like you're just going with totals on this game - two great defenses, I can see your point. However, the early number I'm seeing is Miami -4. That seems one or two points off to me, so that if that line is still there, I'd tend to do with OKC. Do you have a take on this or too murky to call?

"tend to 'go' with OKC"

[Valuist]

Sounds like you're just going with totals on this game - two great defenses, I can see your point. However, the early number I'm seeing is Miami -4. That seems one or two points off to me, so that if that line is still there, I'd tend to do with OKC. Do you have a take on this or too murky to call?

No real take on the side at the moment, but I want to see what the database says.

[cj]

Seems like KD is going to have to keep the volume pumped up to win this one - can he stretch his streak of +30 pt. games to 12 against Heat D? Only a dozen players in NBA history have put together this kind of streak. I'll be watching.


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=285480

I don't think they will win this game, but 30 should happen. He averaged 30 against them in the Finals. He has never really had trouble scoring on them, it is the rest of the team that does, particularly without Westbrook.

[lansdale]

No real take on the side at the moment, but I want to see what the database says.

I hear you. Looks the consensus re Heat -4 is pretty strong. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see it. BTW, seems to me your picks have been running somewhere in the neighborhood of 70% in this thread. If that's your long term hit rate, that's pretty amazing.

[lansdale]

I don't think they will win this game, but 30 should happen. He averaged 30 against them in the Finals. He has never really had trouble scoring on them, it is the rest of the team that does, particularly without Westbrook.

Agree on both. Also KD better now than in 2012 Finals - he's playing at a level now that only a few legendary players have reached. I see this one as Heat -2. For OKC to win I think Jackson needs to get more than 15, and that will be tough vs. this group, as you say.

To win the title, you need three big time scorers - players who can both get their own shot and score on the road vs. the toughest defense. We know that OKC has two of these players. They lost in 2012 because Harden tanked as that third shooter. They have Ibaka, a great shot blocker and capable scorer, but vs. Indiana and Miami, he'll be erased at Finals level because he can't get his own shot. We know Jackson can get his own shot and score, but can he do it at the highest level?

Cheers,

lansdale

[Valuist]

I hear you. Looks the consensus re Heat -4 is pretty strong. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see it. BTW, seems to me your picks have been running somewhere in the neighborhood of 70% in this thread. If that's your long term hit rate, that's pretty amazing.

I'm passing the game. My initial instinct was that the Heat would take this game as a challenge, and would come to play. But they are just coming off a rematch of last years finals vs the Spurs, and this year we've seen the Heat cannot be trusted, at least from an ATS perspective. Having said that, it should set up decently for them. I consider it a "stand alone" game for them. Two full days off going into the game, and two full days off after the game. OKC had a great ATS run snapped the other day. Durant on fire. I'll watch, with no action on it.

[cj]

Agree on both. Also KD better now than in 2012 Finals - he's playing at a level now that only a few legendary players have reached. I see this one as Heat -2. For OKC to win I think Jackson needs to get more than 15, and that will be tough vs. this group, as you say.

To win the title, you need three big time scorers - players who can both get their own shot and score on the road vs. the toughest defense. We know that OKC has two of these players. They lost in 2012 because Harden tanked as that third shooter. They have Ibaka, a great shot blocker and capable scorer, but vs. Indiana and Miami, he'll be erased at Finals level because he can't get his own shot. We know Jackson can get his own shot and score, but can he do it at the highest level?

Cheers,

lansdale

Ibaka is showing flashes of being able to score in the post, getting better every year. But, he isn't there yet, not consistently.

[classhandicapper]

I think Durant is on his way to being recognized as the greatest scorer of all time. I already think he's the greatest scorer I have ever seen.

He's the only guy I can recall that has great 3 point range, is great off the dribble, great at finishing at the rim, and great at drawing fouls and then hitting FTs. His usage is off the charts, but so is his TS% (efficiency). There are other players with similar usage that are also very efficient, but IMO they aren't/weren't quite as versatile or great at as many things.

The only thing he can't do (or doesn't do enough of yet) is post up smaller players. When he adds that, forget it. He's already pretty much unstoppable, but at that point he'll have more opportunities to use his length and it will become ridiculous.

[Stillriledup]

OKC was down 20-2 or something ridiculous at Miami and now they're ahead by 15 or so.

Crazy!

[cj]

OKC was down 20-2 or something ridiculous at Miami and now they're ahead by 15 or so.

Crazy!

That was a beatdown. Once Brooks benched Perkins, it got ugly for Miami.

[lansdale]

Think I saw the NBA finals take shape tonight: OKC vs. Indiana. Just an unbelievable assault by KD & Co. Guess my theory about R. Jackson's scoring is out the window. I have to say that Wade and Ray Allen both looked as old and out-of-it as I've ever seen them, but that may just have been the contrast with the youth and speed of OKC. Thunder bench really tremendous.

I can only think of two players who seemed as absolutely unstoppable at their best as KD does now - Jabbar and Chamberlain.

[Stillriledup]

That was a beatdown. Once Brooks benched Perkins, it got ugly for Miami.

I wonder what the odds were with Cantor gaming "in house" wagering when the Heat had a 20+ lead in the first quarter.

You're right about the beatdown, this was a game where Miami is going to have to do some soul searching, this type of loss doesnt happen to these guys at home very often.

[Valuist]

I wonder what the odds were with Cantor gaming "in house" wagering when the Heat had a 20+ lead in the first quarter.

You're right about the beatdown, this was a game where Miami is going to have to do some soul searching, this type of loss doesnt happen to these guys at home very often.

This year's Heat has had more than their share of head scratching losses. Not that the loss itself was a shocker, but to open a quick 18 point lead and then basically get blown out in your own building was.

[classhandicapper]

That was a beatdown. Once Brooks benched Perkins, it got ugly for Miami.

Sound like a formula for winning a title. :lol:

[cj]

Sound like a formula for winning a title. :lol:

A lot of OKC fans have been saying that for a long time. It is one thing that Perkins is overpaid, nothing you can do about that. But Brooks insistence on playing him against teams without a good match up is maddening at times. He is fine against Howard, or Hibbert, or Duncan, guys like that. But any other time he is a big net negative on the floor.

[Valuist]

As time goes on, I guess we see that losing Harden may not be that big of a deal. Yes, Harden is very gifted on the offensive end, but defensively, he's clearly a liability.

[cj]

As time goes on, I guess we see that losing Harden may not be that big of a deal. Yes, Harden is very gifted on the offensive end, but defensively, he's clearly a liability.

Not only is it not a big deal, the Thunder are better because of it. Lamb, Adams, another first rounder coming and a very promising young guy they stashed in Europe last year, all for less money combined than Harden makes.

The Euro guy is Alex Abrines. An interesting story about that is that is the pick that David Stern made OKC forfeit because of something to do with the Jeff Green trade and health issues. Presti made it a point to get that specific selection back in the trade as a way to stick it right back at Stern.

Funny, it was OK for the Lakers to dump Bynum to Philly and he never made it on the floor for one game.

[Relwob Owner]

Not only is it not a big deal, the Thunder are better because of it. Lamb, Adams, another first rounder coming and a very promising young guy they stashed in Europe last year, all for less money combined than Harden makes.

The Euro guy is Alex Abrines. An interesting story about that is that is the pick that David Stern made OKC forfeit because of something to do with the Jeff Green trade and health issues. Presti made it a point to get that specific selection back in the trade as a way to stick it right back at Stern.

Funny, it was OK for the Lakers to dump Bynum to Philly and he never made it on the floor for one game.


Amazing what a competent GM can do.....wish he worked for the Wizards

[cj]

Amazing what a competent GM can do.....wish he worked for the Wizards

Good timing, they play tonight. Was a quasi Wizards fan myself before OKC got a team. The Wiz are actually playing pretty good ball these days.

[classhandicapper]

A lot of OKC fans have been saying that for a long time. It is one thing that Perkins is overpaid, nothing you can do about that. But Brooks insistence on playing him against teams without a good match up is maddening at times. He is fine against Howard, or Hibbert, or Duncan, guys like that. But any other time he is a big net negative on the floor.

Perkins was a key part of that Boston championship. They might have won twice if he didn't get hurt for game 7 in LA. So in his mind he's a lot better than he actually is and the younger players probably looked up to him on some level when he first joined the team.

I think sometimes there's this kind of underlying pressure to not bench guys like until they are mentally ready to step aside.

At this point he's pretty terrible though.

[cj]

Perkins was a key part of that Boston championship. They might have won twice if he didn't get hurt for game 7 in LA. So in his mind he's a lot better than he actually is and the younger players probably looked up to him on some level when he first joined the team.

I think sometimes there's this kind of underlying pressure to not bench guys like until they are mentally ready to step aside.

At this point he's pretty terrible though.

Yeah, I think all the knee surgeries really set him back. He just never recovered to what he was. He still is a good post defender, but that is about it. Lately he has actually been playing ok, not worth 9 million a year ok, but providing some value. But against the Heat he is a disaster.

[lansdale]

Yeah, I think all the knee surgeries really set him back. He just never recovered to what he was. He still is a good post defender, but that is about it. Lately he has actually been playing ok, not worth 9 million a year ok, but providing some value. But against the Heat he is a disaster.

I can see how frustrating it must be for OKC fans to have this guy - supposedly they were yelling 'amnesty' during one of last year's playoff games vs. Memphis. But his drawbacks aren't a mystery, and there's not much he can do about it.

He's demonstrably not the same player he was with the Celts before the knee injuries, and as soon as that became obvious to them, they dealt him. His lateral movement and vertical lift are noticeably hampered. So both his former shot-blocking and what limited post game he had, have gone south.

As cj says, there are still things that he can do. He can still rebound on a pro level (ca. 4 rpm), and defend big men in the post (although not at his former level), but not much else. And on a team as loaded with talent as OKC, that makes him seem more superfluous than it would with a bad or mid-level group.

However Presti, for reasons that are not entirely clear, has refused to exercise the amnesty option or waive him. Possibly he sees his value in the more half-court-oriented style of the playoffs against someone like Hibbert, and possibly also, as someone to teach post defense to a young guy like Adams, who would seem like the most likely player to fill that big man role with more experience. Difficult to say. But what is Perkins supposed to do? If you were him, would you just give back the money?

[Stillriledup]

Durant finally has a nickname that should stick...Slim Reaper.
He doesnt like this one either lol

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24428652/kevin-durant-isnt-a-big-fan-of-his-new-slim-reaper-nickname

[cj]

He doesnt like this one either lol

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24428652/kevin-durant-isnt-a-big-fan-of-his-new-slim-reaper-nickname

Yes, I've heard, but the t-shirts are selling anyway.

http://www.treeandleafclothing.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/product_full/SlimReaperFrontBlack.jpg

[cj]

I can see how frustrating it must be for OKC fans to have this guy - supposedly they were yelling 'amnesty' during one of last year's playoff games vs. Memphis. But his drawbacks aren't a mystery, and there's not much he can do about it.

He's demonstrably not the same player he was with the Celts before the knee injuries, and as soon as that became obvious to them, they dealt him. His lateral movement and vertical lift are noticeably hampered. So both his former shot-blocking and what limited post game he had, have gone south.

As cj says, there are still things that he can do. He can still rebound on a pro level (ca. 4 rpm), and defend big men in the post (although not at his former level), but not much else. And on a team as loaded with talent as OKC, that makes him seem more superfluous than it would with a bad or mid-level group.

However Presti, for reasons that are not entirely clear, has refused to exercise the amnesty option or waive him. Possibly he sees his value in the more half-court-oriented style of the playoffs against someone like Hibbert, and possibly also, as someone to teach post defense to a young guy like Adams, who would seem like the most likely player to fill that big man role with more experience. Difficult to say. But what is Perkins supposed to do? If you were him, would you just give back the money?

The Thunder were in a unique position where using the amnesty clause on Perkins isn't really going to do much for them anyway. I can't explain all the ins and outs of the new salary cap stuff, but I've read quite a bit about it. They probably won't use it this coming season either.

[Stillriledup]

Yes, I've heard, but the t-shirts are selling anyway.

http://www.treeandleafclothing.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/product_full/SlimReaperFrontBlack.jpg

Wow thats a great shirt, who wouldnt want to own one of those babies!

Do you have one yet?

[cj]

Wow thats a great shirt, who wouldnt want to own one of those babies!

Do you have one yet?

No, just got released today. Not really my style anyway, but pretty cool for the younger crowd. Also, if KD doesn't like it, I won't support it.

[Zydeco]

Amazing what a competent GM can do.....wish he worked for the Wizards

LOL..The Bullets have OKC's number. It's the Celtics and other sub .500 teams that they have to worry about. I like the comment in the USA Today power rankings today" If the Wizards were one game under .500 all the time they would never lose a game" They go tonight for the 8th time this season to get above .500. Lost the previous 7.

[Relwob Owner]

LOL..The Bullets have OKC's number. It's the Celtics and other sub .500 teams that they have to worry about. I like the comment in the USA Today power rankings today" If the Wizards were one game under .500 all the time they would never lose a game" They go tonight for the 8th time this season to get above .500. Lost the previous 7.


So true....I think the Blazers will beat them tonight and they will then bounce back against the Spurs.

Lots of talk around here about the Wizards putting all their eggs in the Durant basket for when his contract expires. Im sure CJ probably has some thoughts/info on it but Durant's interview when he was here didn't really do much to make someone think he doesn't miss it around here.

[cj]

So true....I think the Blazers will beat them tonight and they will then bounce back against the Spurs.

Lots of talk around here about the Wizards putting all their eggs in the Durant basket for when his contract expires. Im sure CJ probably has some thoughts/info on it but Durant's interview when he was here didn't really do much to make someone think he doesn't miss it around here.

The odds KD would go to the Wizards would have to be around 5000 to 1 minimum. Not saying this as a homer, but he'd be foolish to leave OKC. They are up there with anyone as far as being a well run organization. It will also be much harder to create a team via free agency like the Heat did with the new CBA.

[Stillriledup]

Anyone hear any good trade rumors? You have to figure Pau Gasol is leaving LA pretty soon, that's the only one i've heard.....Rondo is also on the trade block allegedly.

I'm interested to see Bynum play a game with the Pacers, that should be must see tv when he actually suits up.

[Relwob Owner]

The odds KD would go to the Wizards would have to be around 5000 to 1 minimum. Not saying this as a homer, but he'd be foolish to leave OKC. They are up there with anyone as far as being a well run organization. It will also be much harder to create a team via free agency like the Heat did with the new CBA.


I disagree and those odds are pretty exagerrated. He has more reason to return to DC(hometown) than anywhere else. Read his interviews when he was here. He misses it. A more seasoned Wall and Beal will still be here. You guys definitely have a well run organization but he has pretty strong ties here. He will have made his money and I think the hometown draw will be a big factor.

[Zydeco]

I disagree and those odds are pretty exagerrated. He has more reason to return to DC(hometown) than anywhere else. Read his interviews when he was here. He misses it. A more seasoned Wall and Beal will still be here. You guys definitely have a well run organization but he has pretty strong ties here. He will have made his money and I think the hometown draw will be a big factor.

Did you see his quote after the game when a reporter asked him about playing in DC? something like this...."I just told you...i bought a hundred tickets for this game.....can you imagine if I played here? I'm good in OKC and like to visit here." Talk about a tax on your income!! :lol:

[Relwob Owner]

Did you see his quote after the game when a reporter asked him about playing in DC? something like this...."I just told you...i bought a hundred tickets for this game.....can you imagine if I played here? I'm good in OKC and like to visit here." Talk about a tax on your income!! :lol:


I did....No kidding, right? He also said he has "DC embedded in my heart". He wears Nats and Skins hats and has DC written all over him. Sure, he may stay in OKC but if he is going to go somewhere else, DC makes perfect sense given his roots here and the fact that they have such a young, talented backcourt which if stays healthy, will be peaking right when he is a free agent.

[cj]

I disagree and those odds are pretty exagerrated. He has more reason to return to DC(hometown) than anywhere else. Read his interviews when he was here. He misses it. A more seasoned Wall and Beal will still be here. You guys definitely have a well run organization but he has pretty strong ties here. He will have made his money and I think the hometown draw will be a big factor.

We'll see, but I'd stick by the odds. He has said he has no desire to return home to play for the Wiz when asked about it. I don't think he'll move from here, but if he did, I can't see it being for that organization.

[Relwob Owner]

We'll see, but I'd stick by the odds. He has said he has no desire to return home to play for the Wiz when asked about it. I don't think he'll move from here, but if he did, I can't see it being for that organization.

I havent seen him say that but even if he did say that, it makes sense because what is he supposed to say, being currently in OKC? Of course he is going to say that he doesn't want to play here or anywhere else. Your odds are honestly way off because if he is going to leave, it makes perfect sense for him to come here. This isn't the old Wizards....the owner is better and there is a totally different attitude now. Wall/Beal and cap room in the future. Plus, the hometown connection is a no brainer. I don't know if he will leave OKC but if he does, coming here makes obvious sense....gotta get back to seeing if we can hang on and beat the Blazers.

[Valuist]

Miami/Phoenix Over 210

This is Phoenix' last game before the All Star break. Mentally, I could see them checking out of it defensively in this scenario. Miami could be on a mission coming off a loss, but the over has been a better bet (8-5) than them (6-7 ATS) coming off a straight up loss.

[Stillriledup]

Miami/Phoenix Over 210

This is Phoenix' last game before the All Star break. Mentally, I could see them checking out of it defensively in this scenario. Miami could be on a mission coming off a loss, but the over has been a better bet (8-5) than them (6-7 ATS) coming off a straight up loss.

Mia should be more focused, they don't normally lose 2 in a row.

[Valuist]

Mia should be more focused, they don't normally lose 2 in a row.

Even in winning they really didn't impress. I didn't watch but I believe they hadn't covered at all in the game until the final seconds. While the 99 Rams were the "Greatest Show on Turf", we can call this year's Heat, the "Greatest Team on Hardwood......when they feel up to trying".

[cj]

...we can call this year's Heat, the "Greatest Team on Hardwood......when they feel up to trying".

I actually think they are slipping as a team. Lebron is still Lebron, but Wade, Allen, and Battier have gotten old quickly.

[Valuist]

I actually think they are slipping as a team. Lebron is still Lebron, but Wade, Allen, and Battier have gotten old quickly.

Right now, I think the Finals will be Indiana vs Ok-C. Your Thunder are the best defensive team in the West, and the Pacers are better defensively than the Heat. From what I've seen, Miami doesn't look hungry. That can't be underestimated. The Seahawks really had that look all season. Another reason its tough to repeat.

[Stillriledup]

Even in winning they really didn't impress. I didn't watch but I believe they hadn't covered at all in the game until the final seconds. While the 99 Rams were the "Greatest Show on Turf", we can call this year's Heat, the "Greatest Team on Hardwood......when they feel up to trying".

Expect more of the same in the final weeks of the season when they are solidly locked into seed 2, they'll be resting players and playing around and waiting to "turn it on" in the playoffs.

[magwell]

The best there ever was......:)

[cj]

Long way to go to reach His Airness.

[Stillriledup]

Long way to go to reach His Airness.

its tougher for some reason to win 6 titles in this era and it won't matter anyway because even if Lebron won 6, people would say his titles werent as "pure" as MJs i think stats and title won and points scored and all that stuff are good and you can use them to compare, but Lebron is a freak, he's just a better athlete than Jordan, and he's much bigger, he can be a point guard when he wants to be and he can guard a power forward when he needs to guard a power forward, MJ could never do that...so, everyone has their own criteria as to who is the "best", its open for debate.

[cj]

its tougher for some reason to win 6 titles in this era and it won't matter anyway because even if Lebron won 6, people would say his titles werent as "pure" as MJs i think stats and title won and points scored and all that stuff are good and you can use them to compare, but Lebron is a freak, he's just a better athlete than Jordan, and he's much bigger, he can be a point guard when he wants to be and he can guard a power forward when he needs to guard a power forward, MJ could never do that...so, everyone has their own criteria as to who is the "best", its open for debate.

Lebron is a great player, of course he is. But there are things Jordan could do that Lebron can't as well. Jordan also played in an era where much more physical defense was allowed, and yet he piled up the points game after game.

Saying it is tougher to win six titles makes no sense to me. Why? The East is horrific. Making it to the finals isn't that tough for the Heat...maybe this year, but they have one team to beat. It was never easy to win six titles. It was done because of one person, Jordan.

[Valuist]

its tougher for some reason to win 6 titles in this era and it won't matter anyway because even if Lebron won 6, people would say his titles werent as "pure" as MJs i think stats and title won and points scored and all that stuff are good and you can use them to compare, but Lebron is a freak, he's just a better athlete than Jordan, and he's much bigger, he can be a point guard when he wants to be and he can guard a power forward when he needs to guard a power forward, MJ could never do that...so, everyone has their own criteria as to who is the "best", its open for debate.

MJ DID play point guard on a few occasions. Only position he never played was center.

[Robert Fischer]

As far as I can tell, In the beginning of LeBron's career he looked like a ridiculous athlete, but a fraud compared to a player like Jordan.

I guess it's been at least a few seasons now, where LeBron has matured into a legitimate all-time great level player that is every bit as good as Jordan was.

[Stillriledup]

As far as I can tell, In the beginning of LeBron's career he looked like a ridiculous athlete, but a fraud compared to a player like Jordan.

I guess it's been at least a few seasons now, where LeBron has matured into a legitimate all-time great level player that is every bit as good as Jordan was.

Lebron's career started off with a ridiculous owner in Cleveland who refused to surround him with anyone who was any good. Jordan started off with a much smarter owner who surrounded him with a great team.

[cj]

Very disappointing effort by the Clippers last night. I hadn't watched them much lately, but everyone has been singing their praises. What I saw is that they still don't play defense and they still can't shoot free throws. Oh, and they still flop a lot.

[lansdale]

Very disappointing effort by the Clippers last night. I hadn't watched them much lately, but everyone has been singing their praises. What I saw is that they still don't play defense and they still can't shoot free throws. Oh, and they still flop a lot.

That's how many years the Clips have lost first-game-after-All Star weekend. These guys aren't going anywhere. When the other team's two top scorers are second unit guys, and you make Shannon Brown look like Dr. J., you have no defense to speak of. With the high level of competition in the west, they could conceivably be eliminated in the first round this year.

The depressing thing about the situation to me is that, at this rate, Paul, a truly great player, may never get a shot at a championship. He's almost 29, and only has maybe a couple more years until his window closes. Front office, ownership, appear clueless.

[Valuist]

Last year, the Clippers first game post AS break was at home against the Spurs. The Spurs blew them out by 26. A real ass-kicking. I realize NBA players don't go 100% all out in every game, but usually a game like that sticks in their minds and they come out with a better effort the next time. Not in this case, however.

[Stillriledup]

Lake show trades Steve Blake to Golden State for Kent Bazemore and MarShon Brooks.

[RXB]

Lebron got an bad owie on his nose tonight against the Thunder and had to leave the playground early. Only after pumping in 33, though.

[Stillriledup]

Very disappointing effort by the Thunder last night. I hadn't watched them much lately, but everyone has been singing their praises. :D

[cj]

Very disappointing effort by the Thunder last night. I hadn't watched them much lately, but everyone has been singing their praises. :D

Thunder actually had some pretty good excuses tonight. Westbrook hasn't played in two months and was very rusty, and also took the offense out of the flow it has been in. Long term of course his return is great, but short term probably not. Throw in the whole team was rusty after not playing for a full week (against a team that played two nights ago) and this was very predictable. I get pissed about a lot of losses, but this isn't one of them.

[Valuist]

I wonder how Danny Granger is feeling today. One day, he's on a team likely to reach the conference finals, and the next he's with the Sixers. As for the Pacers, do they really think Turner is going to help? His offensive efficiency numbers aren't good.