Sheet Players

[DeoVolente]

Why is it that sheet player always think that people that 'rag 'on them I don't know people who use the sheets. Of course I know
people who use the sheets. And you know what? They lose just
like everybody else. And not only do they need to try to beat the
takeout, they also need to beat their added expense. I have only once found someone using the sheets make more than I did, and he would be better that I am even without the Sheets and since he was betting about 3-4 times what I was to begin with how is that surprising? But I've been with sheets players who had losing days LOTS of times. And I just shake my head when they go back for more sheets the next time. They are just like other losing players who are unwilling to change their approach to the game.

The truth is that even just betting the favorite you will win about 1/3 of the time. The truth is that virtually any system you can come up with will win for a time. My friend once spent an entire Keeneland meet betting nothing but horses ridden by Pat Day that were not the highweight in the race and he did turn a nice profit - he bought tires for his Probe with the money, and that car needs those expensive, weirdo, skinny high performance tires.

My point is that if something so absurd as Chris' "Pat Day - lower
weight" system can turn a profit why the hell shouldn't sheets turn a profit at some point? Are you going to try to tell me that sheets players win more that they lose!

BULLSHIT.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Yes a lot of systems win, but most often it is not just the system- it is the player knowing how and when to use the system! The Day system may not have worked with another jockey. The sheets may works in certain situations. Those players who can learn which systems are usable when are the winners. I do believe there are system that cannot win. They are usually ones with a lot of rules and supposedly universal and automatic, like using speed figures alone to bet. As far as I know no one on this board does that!. I think every winning player uses some type of situational betting because flat and blanket betting is mathematically a loser in the long run, and the long run is all I care about!

[Tom]

The sheets are not a system. They are a tool that requires the user to know what he/she is doing and how to handicap a race.
If you put 5 sheet palyers in a room, you would probaably get several different plays every race. There is no "sheets" selction.
If you lost money playing the sheets, don' t blame the sheets.

[kingfin66]

It doesn't matter if you use software, Beyer figures, sheets, or any other method that gives you output, your success will depend on how you use the information. Success players don't win by using their method, they use their method to win. There is a difference.

By the way, I don't use The Sheets, haven't read Ragozin's book and couldn't even tell you what they look like. I will agree that if they cost $30 a pop they are too rich for my blood.

[karlskorner]

I doubt you will find too many "sheet" players in the Grandstand, maybe some in the Club House, borrow someones jacket and pin and get yourself up to the Turf Club, lotsa "sheet" players up there, especially in the "high rollers" room. Bum a pass and work you way back to the barn area, talk to Bobby Frankel, Nick Z or DWL and others, they all use the "sheets". 20 years an more is a long time for a method to last.

[Turfday]

Sheets, Beyers, computer programs, trips and trouble, workouts, inside information, stats, angles.

Pick your "poison." Mix and match. The game has CHANGED dramatically over the last 20 years.

(1) A lot of the "stupid" money has left the game...e.g. attendance is down, yet the handle isn't.

(2) The game is generally being supported by the more sophisticated players. And generally, the more sophisticated players are the ones betting the most money.

(3) The sophisticated players are using more than one type or source of information. Sophisticated players find it easier to eliminate non contenders and thus SMALLER field sizes, which are now more prevalent (at least out west), KILL any chance of finding consistent overlays.

(4) With the advent of the information age, there are FAR FEWER "secrets" or edges as there were years ago.

MY CONCLUSION: No matter what tools you use in your selection process, most sophisticated players who "do their homework" and apply themselves are going to boil their share of races down to the contenders.

Thus, nowadays, THE most important part of the handicapping process is no longer the handicapping itself, but what pools you choose to play in and how you manage your money.

I'm finding fewer and fewer interesting opportunities. Just my opinion.

[jotb]

Hello all:

There are plenty of trainers in this game that claim horses using the sheets. The question is, do trainers claim horses solely from the sheets or are there using other methods like horse appearance? The sheets are nothing more than a tool or should I say a guide, which is used to determine the outcome of a race but it's the handicapper's job to figure out how these horses arrived at these numbers. Most speed figure followers choose the softer easier way out of hard core handicapping. It's less work for the handicapper to interpret speed figures, than it is to understand other information such as the running lines. It's less time comsuming for these type of handicappers to rely on numbers. Now if you incorporate the figures using other handicapping tools, it certainly should help you to break down the race (pretenders from the contenders).

Joe

[Tom]

Welcome TRM, from a former fellow Sartin-ista.
The mental game is the one that counts.

[TRM]

Hello to all on the PA board:

As far as handicapping goes, it seems that lots of horseplayers, equine investors etc.....use some sort of method, angle, computer program or any other tool that THEY think will help them win at the races. I can't tell you how many times I've gone to the track and just been totally burned, and then go back a month later and make imy losses back. What did I do differently? For me, it seemed to always be a mental thing. I went back with a better attitude, probably more sleep, and did not try to handicap 8 cards at once. LOL. But seriously, it's that old Sartin zig-zag routine that handicappers get into and then can't seem to dig out. I've learned to take the ups with the downs. It's a great game that keeps me on my mental toes........

[Memogram]

Most players I know don't use the sheets, but, as pointed out, some trainers believe in them, so they must be considered.

[PSTfredk]

they cost $33 at lone star park and with the cost of drf $5

valet park $ 5

adm $1 or $2 lone star card

scratch sheet $ 1

rev seat optional $ 3

your looking at $ 45 dollars a day expenses

your you haven't had a drink or some thing to eat

that a lot of money to win just to cover the days nut.

i know a owner that used them last neet but is not using them now??? live meet

[BetHorses!]

On average, the sheets make losing players lose less so they think its the greatest thing since sliced bread

But they were very valuable many years ago when very few people used them and you had value-- now too many people use them and that live 20-1 shot is now 6-1 or less

[Macdiarmadillo]

Turfday pretty much said it all.

Let me add to Selvin's conclusion that what I'm looking for/all I can expect is incremental (small) improvements to my game. Any small edge brings solid returns (so would rebates). You'll have to find out for yourself if Sheets or whatever are worth the money.