Pool Manipulation at Mountaineer, Race 3 Oct 22.

[Stillriledup]

Probably another "teller error" just like the situation that happened at SA. This one fits a similar profile, 20k to win on a longshot.

[Robert Fischer]

Looks like bullshit @ mountaineer right now.

There should be some kind of policy to discourage pool manipulation.

We need to be able to cancel. However, someone intelligent should be able to come up with a policy that discourages pool manipulation.

[Robert Fischer]

This is either pool manipulation (about 99% chance it is), or an extremely rich, extremely careless bet (about a 1% chance).

[Quagmire]

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Totals
Win Pool 668 341 0 554 670 219 20,179 $22,634
Place Pool 194 129 0 154 303 75 113 $970
Show Pool 121 159 0 127 411 55 67 $942

[Stillriledup]

This is either pool manipulation (about 99% chance it is), or an extremely rich, extremely careless bet (about a 1% chance).

You gotta wait till the last second, lets hope we dont get duped and the money comes out and we have 3 or 4 win bets on horses we dont want.

:bang:

[Zydeco]

now qt 20,200 gone down a bit

[Quagmire]

It's gone now

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Totals
Win Pool 610 460 0 880 1,100 355 202 $3,611
Place Pool 263 189 0 345 449 125 113 $1,487
Show Pool 177 234 0 215 531 106 76 $1,340

[massman]

I think he just cancelled at 3 or 4 mtp. Total bullshit

[Zydeco]

It's gone now

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Totals
Win Pool 610 460 0 880 1,100 355 202 $3,611
Place Pool 263 189 0 345 449 125 113 $1,487
Show Pool 177 234 0 215 531 106 76 $1,340
gone now 200 on the :7:

[Knowclew]

Saw it too....I am betting a few bobs WP just cause I am up a few bucks tonight.

[Zydeco]

1189 to win on :7:

[Knowclew]

Oh well.

I do understand there can be manipulation that extends to the gimmick pools, but did anyone see anything out of the ordinary in the probables???

So slow tonight I spent some time looking, but saw nothing dramatic.
Really is bs either way.

[Charli125]

Yeah, that was pretty insane.

[Robert Fischer]

If someone consistently cancels for LARGE pool-changing amounts, I think it would be reasonable to contact that individual and say something to the effect of "Sir, when you repeatedly do these large pool-changing cancels, it compromises the integrity of the pools. We understand the need to cancel wagers occasionally as situations change rapidly at times before post. We give you the benefit of the doubt, but these large cancels can give the appearance of intentional pool manipulation to the betting public. Please make an effort to avoid repeatedly cancelling large pool-changing wagers, or we will reserve the right to close your account".

Then they have to have the balls to do so even if the guy is a large player who makes their ADW or Track a profit.

[Stillriledup]

If someone consistently cancels for LARGE pool-changing amounts, I think it would be reasonable to contact that individual and say something to the effect of "Sir, when you repeatedly do these large pool-changing cancels, it compromises the integrity of the pools. We understand the need to cancel wagers occasionally as situations change rapidly at times before post. We give you the benefit of the doubt, but these large cancels can give the appearance of intentional pool manipulation to the betting public. Please make an effort to avoid repeatedly cancelling large pool-changing wagers, or we will reserve the right to close your account".

Then they have to have the balls to do so even if the guy is a large player who makes their ADW or Track a profit.

Not every ADW will permit this, you have to wonder who was responsible for giving the "ok" to cancel this ticket. Its one thing to have a bet in there for 1 minute, but when that money sits there until 3 mins to post, that's unacceptable.

Mark and Peter post here and while i know that its not their responsibility to make sure people arent manipulating, i feel bad for them because it makes their track look bad, so in turn, it makes them look bad.

This has to stop.

[Peter Berry]

Maybe it's just a bunch of drunks sitting around trying to make certain tracks look bad. I hate it. Clearly these people haven't had a date in a while.

[massman]

Race 4. With 5 mtp 1-8 and 9-8 are paying $23.00 each. 8-1 and 8-9 are over $300.00

[Bruiser1]

Maybe it's just a bunch of drunks sitting around trying to make certain tracks look bad. I hate it. Clearly these people haven't had a date in a while.

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Stillriledup]

Maybe it's just a bunch of drunks sitting around trying to make certain tracks look bad. I hate it. Clearly these people haven't had a date in a while.

Lets hope that someone at the Mountain investigates where this bet came from and puts a stop to it.

[phattty]

mebbe one of these times the pool should be locked due to mechanical failure, and watch the humor come out of the equation for the idiots doing it

[wiffleball whizz]

Hard to believe charges can't be brought for fraud

[lamboguy]

Maybe it's just a bunch of drunks sitting around trying to make certain tracks look bad. I hate it. Clearly these people haven't had a date in a while.not only are you a great announcer, you have a first class sense of humor!

i will like you even more if you call my horse a winner on November 2nd.

i learned one thing about the mountain, the odds in the gate don't mean a thing.

[Exotic1]

mebbe one of these times the pool should be locked due to mechanical failure, and watch the humor come out of the equation for the idiots doing it

I was thinking the same, how do they know that the cancel will be allowed and not subject to any delay? Unless, they really do know.

[BombsAway Bob]

Maybe it's just a bunch of drunks sitting around trying to make certain tracks look bad. I hate it. Clearly these people haven't had a date in a while.

from what foggy memory i have, the Breeders Cup Pick-6
scammers tried out their technique at smaller venues
for a test run. Perhaps this "in/out" is a test for a BIG
Pool Manipulation on a "Big Pool" Day.

[thaskalos]

Mountaineer has a first-class track handicapper and a first-class race announcer...but it remains the worst place in the U.S. to go to if you want to place a bet, IMO. And I am not saying this just because I was 4-deep in the last leg of the pick-5 yesterday...and none of my 4 horses finished in the money.

Any racetrack that allows manipulation such as this to occur for as long as it has does not deserve a horse racing licence.

[tanner12oz]

Pool funny business is daily at mtr...funny how nobody cares when it results in 140 show payoffs though

[lamboguy]

Pool funny business is daily at mtr...funny how nobody cares when it results in 140 show payoffs thoughi think the guy the was betting the stup id show bets went clean. i say that because there has been some very obvious ones after the blowup on Sunday's first race and the show pools have been normal from that point on so far.

since the guy was coming in late, i was anticipating that the guy was going to show up. for the record, i could have never in a million years predicted that the guy was going to come in on those horses in the first race on Sunday. he certainly fooled me, and he went in for $50,000

[Stillriledup]

Pool funny business is daily at mtr...funny how nobody cares when it results in 140 show payoffs though

But people dont care because the money goes in the pool and STAYS in the pool. The two situations don't get filed under the "funny business banner" the same way.

[Stillriledup]

from what foggy memory i have, the Breeders Cup Pick-6
scammers tried out their technique at smaller venues
for a test run. Perhaps this "in/out" is a test for a BIG
Pool Manipulation on a "Big Pool" Day.

Excellent theory, hopefully Mountaineer will get to the bottom of this and let the public know that its been stopped (not holding my breath however).

[MutuelClerk]

I've been a teller for a long time. A punch like that is no error. And shouldn't be cancelled. This seems to happen a lot at Mountaineer.

[MONEY]

I was checking the WPS pools on Ebet and saw the below for race 7,
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j244/Simulcaster/Mountaineer_zps683d2565.gif (http://s82.photobucket.com/user/Simulcaster/media/Mountaineer_zps683d2565.gif.html)
Apparently by the $2.20 show price on #4 there was a bridge jumper & Mountaineer chose to hide it.
I haven't seen the show pool missing for any other trackrace today.

[Stillriledup]

The 4 had 52k to show. The total pool was 56k.

The money came in at the last possible second, i didnt see the large bet until the race was over.

[JackS]

maybe a rule such as "All monies bet must ride to the end of the betting race. Cancelations will require that 25% will ride on the original bet to the end of the betting race. Cancelations and a return of 100% can be made only on bets made at the mutual windows and such cancelations must occur within 60 seconds of placing the bet."
The 60 second rule allows for an honest mistake by either the bettor or the mutual clerk .Mutual machines USERS WILL NOT be elgibile for the 100% return.

[Stillriledup]

Why should ADW bettors have to worry about "on the take" mutuel clerks at live racing venues who cancel large wagers for bettors who "tip" them nicely?

I agree with the one poster who said zero cancels for any reason. Once you bet, you're in.

If you bet 20 dimes on an NFL game in vegas and the odds moved and you went back 20 mins later to "Cancel" do you think you would be able to cancel? No. Racing should be the same.

[menifee]

I agree with the one poster who said zero cancels for any reason. Once you bet, you're in.




I can no longer bring my business to SRU downs. Bad rule - need to cancel. Canceling is ok - you shouldn't be able to abuse it - someone's ADW is letting someone abuse the privilege at MNR and CT.

[Stillriledup]

I can no longer bring my business to SRU downs. Bad rule - need to cancel. Canceling is ok - you shouldn't be able to abuse it - someone's ADW is letting someone abuse the privilege at MNR and CT.

Awww, geez, i don't want to lose your business, i'll try and make it up to you!

In general i agree that most people shouldnt be inconvenienced because of a few bad apples who are abusing the privilege but i havent seen MTN and CT take the bull by the horns and stop it....they're ruining this for everyone.

[shouldacoulda]

[QUOTE=thaskalos]Mountaineer has a first-class track handicapper and a first-class race announcer.../QUOTE]

Agree. Nancy McMichaels is a good handicapper. Just kidding MM. Your both good. Announcer also calls a good race. I don't watch the pools that close. I did like the $140.00 show pay off last week though. I didn't have it but it was a surprise to see.

[Stillriledup]

Big cancel on the 5 horse (Race 2, Nov 9), the winner went from 5-1 to 6-5 at the quarter pole and won.

The runner up went from 1-5 to 3-2 in the flash that you couldnt see because the race started.

[wiffleball whizz]

Big cancel on the 5 horse (Race 2, Nov 9), the winner went from 5-1 to 6-5 at the quarter pole and won.

The runner up went from 1-5 to 3-2 in the flash that you couldnt see because the race started.

Glad I'm home watching football **** this collision or whatever this is called...75 things You gotta know to beat this game then add this on....

Cj worrys about whips......lololololololololo

[Stillriledup]

Show bet manipulation at Mtn, 2k show bet cancelled at the last possible second in Race 3 on the 3 horse Logan Creek (Nov 9, Race 3). The 1 ends up as the favorite to show.

[lamboguy]

i stopped paying attention to the odds board and the pools 4 years ago. they manipulate the show pools in the bigger tracks as well daily.

[tanner12oz]

Insane opening races today...such a wild track

[Mineshaft]

Crazy payoffs in the 1st and 2nd races

[cj]

Cj worrys about whips......lololololololololo

I've commented on this stuff many times. Mountaineer is dead to me. Clearly they don't care about pool manipulation.

[wiffleball whizz]

I've commented on this stuff many times. Mountaineer is dead to me. Clearly they don't care about pool manipulation.


Wouldn't bet the track with food stamps

To show you how much I hate the track a few months ago before I moved to maryland I'm trapped like a rat in racebook late Sunday night and its balmoral and mountaineer.......On full blown tilt I passed on the races at mnr......tracks a joke

And they don't even try and hide it

[Stillriledup]

Late pick 5 at Mountaineer paid 5,705 and there was 4 winning tickets. The carryover was 13,500 approx, which means each winning ticket got 3,375 of the carryover monies added to their price. This also means that the pick 5 without the carryover monies would have paid aprox 2200 which is half of what the parlay paid.

Just food for thought. Hard to get a "bump" in the horizontals , there should be very few bets like this that pay under the parlay, but it just seems that its commonplace these days.

Its hard to get paid what you deserve, asking for the parlay isnt too much to ask, yet, it seems like there are a ton of horizontals around the country (in blind pools :rolleyes: ) that just can't even reach the parlay.

[ronsmac]

Late pick 5 at Mountaineer paid 5,705 and there was 4 winning tickets. The carryover was 13,500 approx, which means each winning ticket got 3,375 of the carryover monies added to their price. This also means that the pick 5 without the carryover monies would have paid aprox 2200 which is half of what the parlay paid.

Just food for thought. Hard to get a "bump" in the horizontals , there should be very few bets like this that pay under the parlay, but it just seems that its commonplace these days.

Its hard to get paid what you deserve, asking for the parlay isnt too much to ask, yet, it seems like there are a ton of horizontals around the country (in blind pools :rolleyes: ) that just can't even reach the parlay.
Considering you're only subject to the takeout once instead of 5 seperate times, I'd say asking for just the parlay is selling yourself short. I'd say in a pick 5 50 to 60% more than the parlay isn't too much to ask.

[ronsmac]

Wouldn't bet the track with food stamps

To show you how much I hate the track a few months ago before I moved to maryland I'm trapped like a rat in racebook late Sunday night and its balmoral and mountaineer.......On full blown tilt I passed on the races at mnr......tracks a joke

And they don't even try and hide it
When you have slots who cares about the racing. I remember when that dump used to have $1800 purses.

[Stillriledup]

One thing i've been noticing at Mtn in the early 5 races is this. The pick 4, which is comprised of the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th legs of the early pick 5, often has payouts and or probables that are more than the pick 5. Tonight is a good example, the 2 horse in the 5th race, nobody is alive in the pick 4 to this horse, but someone is alive in the pick 5.

At SRU downs i'd certainly be looking into these tickets, you know, just to make sure they're legit.

[phattty]

Sorry but. I can't take anymore Of this pool manipulation

Surely they won't miss my action

I know I won't miss the unneeded aggravation just passing time

[Stillriledup]

Sorry but. I can't take anymore Of this pool manipulation

Surely they won't miss my action

I know I won't miss the unneeded aggravation just passing time

Its been happening all night, someone plunks a few grand down and some horse who should never be "odds on" at any point in the betting, is odds on. The odds eventually correct themselves, but it is a tough thing to have to deal with.

[Stillriledup]

That's just unbelievable.

[davew]

Its been happening all night, someone plunks a few grand down and some horse who should never be "odds on" at any point in the betting, is odds on. The odds eventually correct themselves, but it is a tough thing to have to deal with.

do they correct themselves by oher horses getting bet? or bad bet pulled?