The pick six

[so.cal.fan]

Bobby Frankel recently made a statement on a local radio show, here in So. Calif. He gave his opinion on the pick six.
He thinks it is ruining racing.
Too many small bettors are "wasting" their betting capital on this bet that is usually won by a few large syndicates.
A friend of mine, now passed on, had another take on it.
When they first started it, here, he said it took all the fun out of betting on horses.
Used to be a guy could bet $40 or $50 to win on a horse at a nice price, and take pride in his accomplishment.
Now, his friends say, "yeah, but did you have the pick six?"
I think that both these guys are right.
How about you PA posters? What is your take on this?

[BillW]

so.cal.fan,

It appears to me that the smaller fields get, the more exotic a player has to get with his/her bets to find value. With large fields one has to look no further than the win pool. As the fields get smaller one has to look deeper into the exotic pools. Notice that the Pk-6 is most popular on the west coast and less so in the east and non-existent in the mid-west. Our Pk-3's with a 12% take hardly make it here.

Bill W.

[andicap]

If someone is going to change his way of betting simply because his friends/acquaintances make fun of him, then
he should take up something a little gentler -- like knitting.
If I hit bet $50 on a $20 horse I'd be pretty damn happy even if I didn't have the pik-6 and wouldn't give a F__K what any other idiot had to say.
Having said that, I do agree that the pick 6 is draining money from smaller players who have a minute chance of winning it.

Worse, the Daily Racing Form continually encourages small bettors to take a shot at this all but impossible bet in its columns with its "pick 6" tickets from Crist, Free, Litfin that NEVER come in. These guys say they are the racing fan's friend, but they are all a bunch of jackasses.

I have long thought though that the best way to use the pik 6 is to play it instead of Lotto. You win less money, but with much better chance of winning. That is, instead of throwing $5 toward the 10 million to 1 shot of winning lotto, playing a pik-6 would give me a better chance of winning (albeit not for $10M). Instead of hitting 50 numbers you only have to hit an average of about 8 and -- unlike the lottery -- you can easily kick out some of the numbers. So I win $100K instead of $10M. I could still use the money!

Plus watching the races is more fun that looking at ping pong balls coming up in a blower.

[smf]

So Cal fan,

As much as I love the trifecta wager for turf races (only), I believe that Cella at OP was correct in his thoughts about multi horse wagers. They're sending players out of the game by the droves when every race has a ex, tri p3, etc going on.

Bill W, my take on the "value" of shorter fields is this. > In the past 5 months I've been betting the mid atlantic tracks and they have much smaller fields than what we have down here. But, the win pool value (as such) is so much better there than their exacta or trifecta pools (esp, tri's).

As for pick 6's, I've only played 4 or 5 in my whole life (all at FG), and I can think of nothing worse (at the track) than to have a large ticket tied up on a horse that looked like crap in the paddock and my wager is a bust before it gets to the gate.

Last week I had a decent amount on a pick 3 and singled a runner in the 10th (track boss). He flipped, they scratched him. Instead of getting my betting money back, the ticket was xfer'd to a horse I wanted to beat (false favorite). So, my money went down the drain w/ the pick3. If I had bet to win (which is the case most of the time), I'd have my money back.

Cella was correct!

[ranchwest]

The last time I bet a Pick 6, I hit the consolation, 5 of 6, for $12.30. Seemed like a terribly small amount of money for hitting 5 of 6.

[GR1@HTR]

1) Despite of the positive pool...don't play on big carryover days. The large syndicates gobble up all possible combo's, several times over. Your chances of taking home $100K and sweeping the pool are significantly better on non carry over days.

2) Don't play on "guaranteed pool" days. Same as above.

3)) Play only So Cal. The others simply have too small of a pool. NYRA has an ok pool but it is only about 1/3 that of So Cal.

[BIG HIT]

Hi guys.I dont think the pick6 is hurting anything any more then the tri perfectas or any other gimmick it may even bring more people.Why big payouts forget your odds of winning a lot of people dont care kind of a lotto/casino mantality.They come just to gamble on there favorite numbers peroid.I know some guys who take a deck of cards draw from the deck for numbers for perfectas/tri.They have fun and they do win and they have fun.To me raceing biggest enemy are there self.Oh ya those same guys are getting interested in actually handicapping so in away it does create new patrons.

[ranchwest]

Years ago, only about half the races on a card were trifecta races. I recall that the lines were always short for the races without tri's. The races with tri's had long lines. Most people weren't real handicappers, they were just hoping for fast money. Losing didn't seem to be a deterrant.

[so.cal.fan]

Ranchwest:
The deterrant was there, and it was insidious.
They ran out of money. That is the problem.
People go to the track so many times, and go home broke, never cashing even one ticket. They don't come back, even if they want to. The rankest sucker doesn't really like to lose all the time.
That was Bobby Frankel's point.

[ranchwest]

Yeah, but the 25 years before they went broke were pretty good.

I think we have a more sophisticated consumer today and service is at an all-time low.

When the average guy only goes to the track on derby day and it is 105 degrees in the shade and it costs 10 bucks minimum to sit in the shade and the wagering lines are so long he can't get down a bet and the clerks are rude when he finally does get to the front of the line, guess what? After a couple of losses he's going to be hot and frustrated and not ready to come back. Nowadays, he can make his $50 go farther elsewhere.

[smf]

RW,

You've seen a few like this at Lone Star have you, LOL?

I get a kick out of seeing the throng of patrons leave in June & July after race 3 when it's 105 degrees on the pavement, and Corey Johnsen is scratching his head in confusion as to why they're all headed home.


ranchwest posted;
>>>When the average guy only goes to the track on derby day and it is 105 degrees in the shade and it costs 10 bucks minimum to sit in the shade and the wagering lines are so long he can't get down a bet and the clerks are rude when he finally does get to the front of the line, guess what? After a couple of losses he's going to be hot and frustrated and not ready to come back. Nowadays, he can make his $50 go farther elsewhere. <<<

[four m]

kudos andicap,
and they go deep $$$ and usually do not get close, so i say again, why should i buy their book.

[ranchwest]

smf,

Yeah, I never saw folks leaving in droves at Trinity Meadows.

Of course, if I recall right Lone Star bought Trinity Meadows. Now they have a monopoly on overcharging folks for live racing.

[GR1@HTR]

Speaking of Mr. Cory Johnsen....LS was in search of a Director of Product Development earlier this year. Being an executive recruiter, I had visited w/ CJ about acquiring the contract to perform an executive search for their void. Our game plan was to start and try to recruit a top executive/director from the top tracks in the nation...(Santa Anita, Hollywood, Delmar, NYRA, CD, Kee, and so on)...then work our way down some of the lesser tracks. Well, needless to say CJ was not on board with that. He started at the bottom and hired the GM from the lowly Wyoming Downs....So much for all that huh?

[ranchwest]

GR1, I guess he was looking for value. :(

[wes]

I would assume about the same amount of money being bet as before. The only thing the more pools a person has to bet into the less money the player will have for what is left. When the ole heads speak of the win bet many years back and the amount in them. Hell it was the only game at the track. Small bank roll in todays modern pace race tracks just don't give the player many chances to cash in due to their money being spread to thin over too many bettable pools.

wes