What hapened to Van Berg?

[Pensacola Pete]

I just saw his record for this year: 1 for 104. I know he's up there in years. Is it that he doesn't care anymore and just keeps a hand in, or has something gone wrong with the man?

[Track Phantom]

Funny...was just talking about very thing with a friend of mine today.

I know the guy doesn't use drugs (which is likely the main reason his runners all look like they're carrying the starting gate) and he doesn't get great horses...but I think he plays a hand in his poor record.

He always uses the very worst riders at the track and seems to always keep his runners at levels they don't belong.

Case in point is #7 Warren's Big Cat from the 7th today at SA. This runner hasn't won in two years, is eligible for non-winners of 2L but has not run below 25k claiming. In fact, the last few have been nx1 or nx2 for the year and, of all things, an allowance race. Now he did have him in for N2L today but this runner belongs at the very lowest possible level. Not sure he is giving his owner the best chance at a win.

Jack has won 5 non claiming races in 5 years in the So. Cal. circuit. He has won 21 out of 815 (3%) overall in So. Cal. How does he eat?

[Clocker]

I just saw his record for this year: 1 for 104.

It sounds like he may be phasing out of the game, getting ready to retire. I assume that stat is 104 entries YTD. He used to run that many in a few weeks. That's 10 entries a month, maybe 10-15 horses at most? It sounds like a hobby. Also, he might have his better horses under other trainers.

He took over a big operation from his father, and it sure looked like he made it bigger over the years. I doubt he has to worry where the next steak dinner or the next sack of oats is coming from.

[Stillriledup]

More about Jack HERE

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67119&highlight=jack+berg

[TheEdge07]

He doesnt have a degree in chemistry.

[Robert Goren]

He got old.

[tanner12oz]

Focused on his biography from grit to glory..available now at bookstores everywhere

[Mineshaft]

He doesnt have a degree in chemistry.




He doesn't have to have a degree. All you have to do is do maintenance vet work and I don't think he even does that.

[chadk66]

it's kinda sad actually, the guy used to be a dominate force in the racing world years back.

[classhandicapper]

Several other high percentage trainers of that period have also declined a bit overall. The funny thing is that a few still seem to have the same or even more success on the grass as they did before, but nowhere near as good results on dirt. That suggests something to me because almost all the "alchemists" get better results on dirt than grass. It may simply be that grass racing is a more level playing field.

[Valuist]

Several other high percentage trainers of that period have also declined a bit overall. The funny thing is that a few still seem to have the same or even more success on the grass as they did before, but nowhere near as good results on dirt. That suggests something to me because almost all the "alchemists" get better results on dirt than grass. It may simply be that grass racing is a more level playing field.

Have always felt that was true, that dirt racing was more susceptible to "added help". We know dirt is more speed favoring than grass, and it seems many of these so-called supertrainers runners have the ability to keep carrying their speed.

[Track Phantom]

Have always felt that was true, that dirt racing was more susceptible to "added help". We know dirt is more speed favoring than grass, and it seems many of these so-called supertrainers runners have the ability to keep carrying their speed.

There is no logic to this. If the said drug increase stamina for speed horses, it should apply to both surfaces. I'm skeptical.

[cj]

There is no logic to this. If the said drug increase stamina for speed horses, it should apply to both surfaces. I'm skeptical.

Turf races are run differently. Horses conserve energy and finish much more strongly. They run slower early, just biding time. The horses often race covered up also, further conserving energy. If you do this on dirt, you just get a face full of dirt. I just don't think stamina is as important on turf. I'm not saying it isn't a factor, but clearly to my eye horses are less tired at the end of a turf race, at least most of the time.

[mountainman]

Grass racing negates some of a super-trainer's edge. On dirt, it's, sadly, a trainer's game. On turf, nothing trumps affinity for the surface.

[Just a Fan]

He is leaving California at the end of the year, and will be based at OP to start 2014. DWL had a bit of a renaissance with a similar move a few years ago, but I don't get the sense that will happen with JVB. If you knew nothing about horse racing and saw him in the paddock, you would never get the sense that this guy was once at the very top of the game. He looks like his stats - beaten.

Would be nice to see him get one more good horse.

[Fingal]

He got old.

That's the biggest fear of every trainer in that they fall out of fashion for the current bunch of Bafferts & Pletchers, & when one's long time owners start to die off there's no one to replace them. For example one of Bill Spawr's long time owners Fred Carrillo died the other day at 87.
( Horses such as the good sprinter Bordonaro & others ).

Trainers such as Mel & Warren Stute, Henry Moreno, Willard Proctor & JVB didn't forget how to get a horse ready for the big races, they just didn't have the owners any more to give them that kind of stock.

[Stillriledup]

Are owners essentially "followers" and don't have a unique and original thought that maybe Jack Van Berg is still a great trainer who would be just as good as the next guy if you gave him a horse who could run?

There was a point when the game appeared to have passed Wayne Lukas by as he had some lean years where he was an autotoss, but now, he's back on top and winning grade 1 races again, Lukas is older than Van Berg by about 1 year, so, i'm not sure its ALL about age, there must be some owners who are old enough to remember the Gate Dancer and Alysheba years, i wonder if there's more to the story as to why nobody will give him a shot, even with a solid 20k claimer type.

I'm not suggesting that an owner purchase a million dollar yearling and give it to Jack, but someone has to be able to claim one for 25 or 30 and see what Jack could do, you know, a solid 25 to 30 claimer that runs beyers in the high 80s or low 90s and has some back class, seems like its too much to ask....i wonder if there's more to the story.

[Stillriledup]

2013 103 1 9 10 $134,090
2012 177 6 11 16 $272,204
2011 183 5 10 19 $241,686
2010 290 11 10 26 $321,114
2009 145 4 10 19 $154,555
2008 230 11 14 28 $254,460
2007 209 8 20 23 $495,693
2006 255 16 22 26 $586,869
2005 206 13 20 16 $445,813
2004 125 4 8 8 $166,608
2003 144 7 12 13 $196,483
2002 153 14 16 13 $568,930
2001 226 22 26 21 $583,933
2000 424 25 40 34 $1,009,856
1999 452 35 48 46 $1,199,553
1998 387 41 43 50 $1,202,354
1997 433 41 55 45 $1,261,027
1996 483 63 52 58 $1,456,054
1995 789 101 105 86 $2,814,246
1994 1,069 135 146 104 $3,578,841
1993 840 115 121 107 $3,143,878
1992 812 119 110 95 $2,440,459
1991 778 103 96 96 $3,423,227
1990 966 126 129 133 $2,933,251
1989 950 127 116 101 $2,235,399
1988 1,243 150 143 143 $6,820,396
1987 1,581 215 193 150 $6,009,882

Here's Jacks "boxscore" since the Alysheba years.

[Tall One]

That's the biggest fear of every trainer in that they fall out of fashion for the current bunch of Bafferts & Pletchers, & when one's long time owners start to die off there's no one to replace them. For example one of Bill Spawr's long time owners Fred Carrillo died the other day at 87.
( Horses such as the good sprinter Bordonaro & others ).

Trainers such as Mel & Warren Stute, Henry Moreno, Willard Proctor & JVB didn't forget how to get a horse ready for the big races, they just didn't have the owners any more to give them that kind of stock.



I'll side with this post. Remember when Gene Klein, and Nelson Bunker Hunt both had dispersals for their stocl DWL went through a decline as well.

Until WT Young came along.

[TJDave]

There was a point when the game appeared to have passed Wayne Lukas by as he had some lean years where he was an autotoss, but now, he's back on top and winning grade 1 races again, Lukas is older than Van Berg by about 1 year, so, i'm not sure its ALL about age, there must be some owners who are old enough to remember the Gate Dancer and Alysheba years, i wonder if there's more to the story as to why nobody will give him a shot, even with a solid 20k claimer type.

I don't know a lot about either of these guys but I remember reading where Van Berg isn't in the best of shape financially. I also understand that Lucas doesn't need the money. Sometimes that perception and how it translates can make all the difference.

[BIG49010]

If you read the VanBerg book, there is no doubt that he can flat train a race horse. I think it is a money thing, with Jack. He got in a real bad deal in California, and it hurt him deeply. The better trainers are able to pass on the necessary drugs, herbs, hyperbaric treatments etc it takes to win these days. Some owners just don't go for all that, and the trainer has to make the decision to either supplement his horses with the money he gets from his 10-12% and hope that better horses come his way by the perception he is a winning barn, or face a decline in his barn like Jack and others have faced.

[Stillriledup]

He is leaving California at the end of the year, and will be based at OP to start 2014. DWL had a bit of a renaissance with a similar move a few years ago, but I don't get the sense that will happen with JVB. If you knew nothing about horse racing and saw him in the paddock, you would never get the sense that this guy was once at the very top of the game. He looks like his stats - beaten.

Would be nice to see him get one more good horse.

Why won't one owner give him one good horse? Do they all "know" that he's honest and their horses will run slow? What else could it be?

[rrpic6]

Why won't one owner give him one good horse? Do they all "know" that he's honest and their horses will run slow? What else could it be?

I did that once in 1999 (not with Van Berg) with an honest no needle guy. Talk about going thru cash! I should have just gotten a pet instead. When you pay a Trainer a Day Rate of "X" amount of $, you want something in return besides getting to feed your horses carrots in the barn.

RR

[Stillriledup]

I did that once in 1999 (not with Van Berg) with an honest no needle guy. Talk about going thru cash! I should have just gotten a pet instead. When you pay a Trainer a Day Rate of "X" amount of $, you want something in return besides getting to feed your horses carrots in the barn.

RR

Maybe the horse was slow and it had nothing to do with having a needle or not. ?

[Stillriledup]

Jack rolling at Lone Star.

He's 6 for 15 at the meet and appears to have a live one in the 5th!

15- 6 3 2 so far.

[JustRalph]

Jack rolling at Lone Star.

He's 6 for 15 at the meet and appears to have a live one in the 5th!

15- 6 3 2 so far.

Is he here? In Texas? I swear I thought I saw him today........he was pretty crippled up from what I could tell.

[Stillriledup]

Is he here? In Texas? I swear I thought I saw him today........he was pretty crippled up from what I could tell.

OH NO!

I don't know if he's physically in Texas, but his name is on the program as a winning trainer at Lone Star.

:ThmbUp:

[Mineshaft]

think he ran some at LaD last year so hes probably at Lone Star physically

[Track Phantom]

This is no small story.

Jack Van Berg might have 11 winners in the last 5-8 years. I'll look up the exact totals. This includes runners at Los Al and, I think BEU or some smaller Ohio track. His in the money percentage is possibly under 15%.

He just won AGAIN with a first timer. That means he is over 40% at Lone Star. His runners look legit, too. The horse that just won was a well-bred first timer.

Very interesting developments. I wonder what the deal is.

[Track Phantom]

Prior to Lone Star:
872 starts with 25 wins (2.8%) and 160 in the money (18.35%)

At Lone Star:
17 starts with 7 wins (41.1%) and 12 in the money (70.58%)

Also ---
Prior to Lone Star, Van Berg had a total of 8 runners go off at under 2-1 (.09%). At Lone Star, he's had 3 runners go off at under 2-1 (17.64%) and all three WON!

Someone apparently knows there has been a change in the Van Berg approach or knows he was given better runners recently.

[breezing]

i talked to him at SA when he had his book signing a while back, he and his daughter were very nice. while i do not think the book was particularly well written, it did give great insight to the man and his training philosophy. i'm very happy that he is having a good run and hope it continues.

[glengarry]

I am tempted to say something snarky, such as JVB decided to set his alarm clock 30 minutes earlier so he can beat the other trainers to the barn. But he is known as a straight shooter that despises the drug culture in the racing industry. I have seen enough interviews with him to know that much. I just don't see him crossing over to the dark side. By the way, what's Kirk Ziadie's winning percentage at Calder these days? With the hours he has to spend at the barn to win at that high level, it's a wonder how he gets any sleep at all.

[Dahoss2002]

Jack rolling at Lone Star.

He's 6 for 15 at the meet and appears to have a live one in the 5th!

15- 6 3 2 so far.
Now thats some great news. Used to love it when he had a stable at LAD in the 80's. GEAUX JACK!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JustRalph]

I did that once in 1999 (not with Van Berg) with an honest no needle guy. Talk about going thru cash! I should have just gotten a pet instead. When you pay a Trainer a Day Rate of "X" amount of $, you want something in return besides getting to feed your horses carrots in the barn.

RR

This might be the saddest post I've seen here in years

[Track Phantom]

If Jack Van Berg makes a comeback to the top of the training heap, it would be the single greatest thing to happen to racing in my 28 years of following it (at least for me as a fan of Jack Van Berg).

[Stillriledup]

If Jack Van Berg makes a comeback to the top of the training heap, it would be the single greatest thing to happen to racing in my 28 years of following it (at least for me as a fan of Jack Van Berg).

he has step 1 accomplished, get rid of that 1 for 114 record. Step 2 is to have ONE owner with a pretty good horse think "this guy can still train with the best of them" and then it snowballs from there.

[tzipi]

He doesn't use drugs, so he can't compete. He just didn't forget how to train.


http://nypost.com/2008/01/27/roid-to-trouble/

"Hall of Fame horseman Jack Van Berg doesn’t need a Mitchell Report to know that drugs are a scourge on the “sport of kings.” Van Berg, 71, the son of Hall of Famer Marion Van Berg, has won more races – 6,379."


"But over the last decade, Van Berg, based in southern California, has dropped off the charts. With a little more than 30 horses in his barn, he won just 47 races in the last five years. Meanwhile, their vet bills skyrocketing, a new breed of so-called “super trainers” has been winning at percentages unheard of in the past.
Van Berg, from the old school, has seen enough. He finally decided to speak out against the rampant abuse of drugs."

[JohnGalt1]

I just read his biography "Jack From Grit to Glory." which explains what happened to his business.

From having horses at many tracks to now only having only a few horses in California was because of a major set back when he bought a 500 acre horse ranch in Hesperia California.

Chapter 38, That Damn California Ranch, explains how he had to deal with multiple lawsuits.

I never knew about that part of his career.

Also as he contracted his operation, owners of good horses in other states kept their horses in those states with local trainers.

Two of his most successful assistants were Frank Brothers and Bill Mott.

I learned a lot about how a trainer trains and cares for horses, important since I bet on them.

[atonymania]

Jack has moved some of his stock to Lone Star and he is doing fairly well, his horses are alive at LS.

[rrpic6]

This might be the saddest post I've seen here in years

Sad but true, Ralph. No sour grapes cuz that's what I wanted to do with my money. I just have to work a little longer in the real world as a result of my decision.

RR

[rrpic6]

Van Berg will be at Hazel Park this Friday (6-27) for the return of Thoroughbred Racing. His Father was a legend there.

RR