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Ray2000
10-11-2013, 07:56 PM
MutuelOnline is no longer taking Pa residents

They say the Source Market Fee that is being imposed by Pennsylvania (10%?)

makes it impossible to do business with me...... :blush: : :mad: : :blush:






Are they still a Sponser here?

iceknight
10-11-2013, 09:10 PM
MutuelOnline is no longer taking Pa residents

They say the Source Market Fee that is being imposed by Pennsylvania (10%?)

makes it impossible to do business with me...... :blush: : :mad: : :blush:



Are they still a Sponser here?haha, you live in a generally backwards state.. where you cannot buy beer and wine at the same store, cannot bet via most adws if you live within 35 mi of the state monopoly gamer - Meadows or something like that.. wait..how come i know all this? :bang: :bang:



centre county.

Jeff P
10-11-2013, 09:21 PM
It's not your ADW, Ray. (They aren't the ones behind this.)

It's the Pennsylvania Tracks and Horsemen. THEY are the ones who lobbied the legislature for the 10% source market fee.

They did it fully knowing that it would cause many ADWs to stop doing business with Pennsylvania residents.

Looking at it - and given that Pennsylvania horsemen have been getting millions of dollars in slots subsidies over the years- and given the insane trifecta takeout at PEN and PARX (it's 30%.)...

I'm wondering if the right thing to do is ask all players everywhere to consider a national players boycott of Pennsylvania tracks. (Texas too.)

Jeff Platt
Pres. HANA

.

tanner12oz
10-11-2013, 09:54 PM
Crap I'm pa also...any other adws dump is? Only reason I am adw is because meadows closed multiple otbs near me in the past few years..kinda silly to close the otbs and then boot the adws away also..
ease of access is typically something businesses want for there customers...lol not this industry

Robert Goren
10-12-2013, 01:36 AM
The problem may not be with the fee itself, but with the amount of paperwork it requires.

Ray2000
10-12-2013, 08:32 AM
Thx for info, Jeff, Robert

I have accounts with 4 (now 3) ADWs that take wagers from Pa residents and this appears to be an individual business decision, not a total ban, so I can see reduced rebates coming but maybe not a complete halt to my game.

We'll see how it goes.

Clocker
10-12-2013, 01:05 PM
I am watching TVG, and just saw an ad for PABets.com. I don't remember ever seeing that. Is that a new ADW just for PA residents?

Ray2000
10-12-2013, 02:19 PM
thx for the tip, clocker

they'll let me bet but..... "no soup for you" :D (pennsylvania)

https://pabets.tvg.com/resource-center/frequently-asked-questions#Wherearewageringservicesavailable

startngate
10-14-2013, 12:39 PM
It's not your ADW, Ray. (They aren't the ones behind this.)

It's the Pennsylvania Tracks and Horsemen. THEY are the ones who lobbied the legislature for the 10% source market fee.

They did it fully knowing that it would cause many ADWs to stop doing business with Pennsylvania residents.

Looking at it - and given that Pennsylvania horsemen have been getting millions of dollars in slots subsidies over the years- and given the insane trifecta takeout at PEN and PARX (it's 30%.)...

I'm wondering if the right thing to do is ask all players everywhere to consider a national players boycott of Pennsylvania tracks. (Texas too.)

Jeff Platt
Pres. HANA

.

Add New York to that list. I'm sure many ADWs will be looking at shutting down there as well at the end of the year.

AceInTheHole
10-15-2013, 07:58 AM
Add New York to that list. I'm sure many ADWs will be looking at shutting down there as well at the end of the year.

Call me out of the loop here but what potential ADW issues are NY people looking at ?

startngate
10-15-2013, 09:15 AM
Call me out of the loop here but what potential ADW issues are NY people looking at ?

$20,000 yearly license fee + 5% source market fee starting in 2014.

Robert Goren
10-15-2013, 11:51 AM
$20,000 yearly license fee + 5% source market fee starting in 2014.What is it now?

startngate
10-15-2013, 02:46 PM
What is it now?
Nothing.

Robert Goren
10-15-2013, 04:54 PM
I have heard that NYRA already charges very high fees for it signal. If that is true and this goes on top of it, it would make rough on the ADWs. Is this new "tax" just NY residents or is it on anybody that bets their signal?

startngate
10-15-2013, 10:12 PM
All wagers (not just New York tracks) from NY residents.

Basically if you play someplace where you get rebates, figure they are going down 5% across the board, or your ADW of choice may leave the State altogether.

camourous
10-16-2013, 09:42 PM
I am watching TVG, and just saw an ad for PABets.com. I don't remember ever seeing that. Is that a new ADW just for PA residents?

PAbets is TVG for Pennsylvania residents, if you lived in PA and had a TVG account you are now with PAbets. been receiving checks daily from ADW's as pretty much all of the smaller ones are closing accounts from PA residents.

pandy
10-16-2013, 11:47 PM
I just got the email from Amwager telling me that I have to close my account. same thing, PA 10% charge.

This is supposed to be a free country.

pandy
10-16-2013, 11:56 PM
This is so typical of the racing industry. They are going to drive money off shore.

The one positive thing that has happened in decades is rebates for the average player and now the states are taking our right to choose our own place to bet away.

Is there any way for PA residents to get rebates now?

pandy
10-17-2013, 10:03 AM
Does anyone know if Empire City Bets takes Pa. residents?

Dave Schwartz
10-17-2013, 10:44 AM
This is supposed to be a free country.

Were it only true.

proximity
10-17-2013, 08:43 PM
This is so typical of the racing industry. They are going to drive money off shore.

The one positive thing that has happened in decades is rebates for the average player and now the states are taking our right to choose our own place to bet away.

Is there any way for PA residents to get rebates now?

got the call from mr w today.

very sad.

I will note that now that I don't get rebates i'm not against taking rebates away from those who do. with no rebates i'll probably just become a recreational player that plays nyra or something and focus more on poker. I still love the game though and this is very dispiriting to say the least. I will close by saying that this is way too big of an issue to be buried in the adw section of this site.

pandy
10-17-2013, 11:16 PM
I agree, it is a big issue. I know personally that without rebates I'll wager a lot less.

wiffleball whizz
10-18-2013, 02:19 AM
got the call from mr w today.

very sad.

I will note that now that I don't get rebates i'm not against taking rebates away from those who do. with no rebates i'll probably just become a recreational player that plays nyra or something and focus more on poker. I still love the game though and this is very dispiriting to say the least. I will close by saying that this is way too big of an issue to be buried in the adw section of this site.

Poker is the way to go as I've found a new love for the game.....my gf went to go play at live today I dropped her off and went to laurel...for the first time in history I was betting horses and didn't wanna be....I wanted to play cards

Wonder how the track collector is dealing with this.....if they give u the rebates if your have a md adress feel free to use mine.....

Why would they spit in the faces of loyal customers?? Racing just makes no sense

DeanT
10-18-2013, 10:43 AM
Some notes on this mess (and others) here

http://pullthepocket.blogspot.com/2013/10/pick-state-any-state-can-you-bet.html

pandy
10-18-2013, 10:49 AM
That's a good post.

proximity
10-18-2013, 04:50 PM
Some notes on this mess (and others) here

http://pullthepocket.blogspot.com/2013/10/pick-state-any-state-can-you-bet.html

that is a great write up and loved the responses. I especially enjoyed the response about slots because the main point is that our purses get sooooo much from slots that this is really just a drop in the bucket....... ie it's all about excessive greed. really sickening.

DeanT
10-18-2013, 07:09 PM
that is a great write up and loved the responses. I especially enjoyed the response about slots because the main point is that our purses get sooooo much from slots that this is really just a drop in the bucket....... ie it's all about excessive greed. really sickening.

It's a shame the great game of horse racing gets hijacked so often.

Paulick wrote about PA stuff today, so it seems like it's everywhere there.

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/nothing-amusing-about-pennsylvania-horse-racing-commission/

ronsmac
10-18-2013, 11:24 PM
Poker is the way to go as I've found a new love for the game.....my gf went to go play at live today I dropped her off and went to laurel...for the first time in history I was betting horses and didn't wanna be....I wanted to play cards

Wonder how the track collector is dealing with this.....if they give u the rebates if your have a md adress feel free to use mine.....

Why would they spit in the faces of loyal customers?? Racing just makes no sense
Whizz how well is Live going to do when the Baltimore and Nat. Harbor casinos open? Will they lose a lot of players? I drove by the Balt. casino the other day and thought the location seemed a little odd unless they're going to build massive parking lots.

wiffleball whizz
10-19-2013, 01:42 AM
I don't think it will hurt it at all.......live will be well established when they open

Live will make them look very bad when the advertising war starts

shouldacoulda
10-19-2013, 09:05 AM
Stupid is what stupid does. This is what stupid does. This can only result in lower handle. If they pull this crap off in NY and my ADW account gets closed, I will stop playing all together. If these bozos think I'm going to drive an hour each way to bet on 6 horse fields with a 1-9 standout horse they're delusional. That was much of the Aqueduct meet last year. If I won't play races like that from my living room I damn sure as hell I won't drive 2 hours+ to do it.

We the bettors need to express our dissatisfaction with an already poor product at exorbitant prices (i.e. outrageous take out) we already pay. Get your tax money somewhere else and don't kill our sport and an entire industry.

Robert Goren
10-19-2013, 09:45 AM
Greed breeds more greed or so it seems in racing. They already have high take outs and slot fueled purses and they still want more. There is no end in sight. I have given upon the idea that the game will ever get any better than it is today. They will just keep coming up with new ways to screw over the bettors until we are all gone. We are no more than marks ripe to be taken for our last dime in their eyes.

iceknight
10-20-2013, 10:51 PM
It's not your ADW, Ray. (They aren't the ones behind this.)

It's the Pennsylvania Tracks and Horsemen. THEY are the ones who lobbied the legislature for the 10% source market fee.

They did it fully knowing that it would cause many ADWs to stop doing business with Pennsylvania residents.

Looking at it - and given that Pennsylvania horsemen have been getting millions of dollars in slots subsidies over the years- and given the insane trifecta takeout at PEN and PARX (it's 30%.)...

I'm wondering if the right thing to do is ask all players everywhere to consider a national players boycott of Pennsylvania tracks. (Texas too.)

Jeff Platt
Pres. HANA

. I just started boycotting PA tracks then.

Track Collector
10-21-2013, 02:11 AM
Wonder how the track collector is dealing with this.....if they give u the rebates if your have a md adress feel free to use mine.....

Currently I'm not impacted. No guarantees for the future though.

The article linked by DeanT had an interesting reader comment, which is copied below:

"I'd like to see HANA send a letter to the Governor of Pennsylvania asking him to take away slot payments to the Penn Horsemen."

Should we really be supporting the interests of the PA tracks and Horsemen if they have so little regard for the folks who drive the handle in this state? This is of course a rhetorical question. :)

proximity
10-21-2013, 06:35 PM
Currently I'm not impacted. No guarantees for the future though.

the day your're impacted,...... an abyss the game will never climb from.

The article linked by DeanT had an interesting reader comment, which is copied below:

"I'd like to see HANA send a letter to the Governor of Pennsylvania asking him to take away slot payments to the Penn Horsemen."

they say two wrongs don't make a right, but it's almost come to this. it was my instinctual reaction, but i'm not sure this is the time.

Should we really be supporting the interests of the PA tracks and Horsemen if they have so little regard for the folks who drive the handle in this state? This is of course a rhetorical question. :)

a pen player "the lion" told me this friday and was so mad he wouldn't even come out to pen to see racing friends visiting from out of state.

owlshead
10-22-2013, 12:46 PM
PAbets is TVG for Pennsylvania residents, if you lived in PA and had a TVG account you are now with PAbets. been receiving checks daily from ADW's as pretty much all of the smaller ones are closing accounts from PA residents.

My IdaBet account was just closed.... :bang:

camourous
10-22-2013, 09:18 PM
My IdaBet account was just closed.... :bang:

yea mine too

Hoofless_Wonder
10-24-2013, 03:45 AM
Being the suspicious guy that I am, I'm inclined to believe that the blame for this latest ADW fiasco in PA also lies with the bigger ADWs and not just the horsemen's groups or the politicians. It appears they want to drive the smaller ADWs out, to make it like Illinois where only the "big 3" and "little 1" do business. I'm assuming that Twinspires, Xpressbet and TVG (via PAbets) will continue doing business in PA.

The list of states that have ADW issues keeps growing - Problems with PA, MA, NY, IL, TX, etc.

Seems like a boycott of the whole sport is the only thing left to do....

pandy
10-24-2013, 07:36 AM
And the big 3 you mention don't give rebates.

Hoofless_Wonder
10-26-2013, 03:14 AM
And the big 3 you mention don't give rebates.

Very small rebates, but yes some of the money not paid back to the bettors is probably finding its way into the pockets of the local politicians that help pass the "regulations" that drive out the little guys.

I just moved out of the hellhole of racing known as Illinois, and was hoping to be able to use one of the smaller ADWs to get a decent rebate, but Washington State has the same BS - and I believe only the Big 3 operate out here.

:bang:

mannyberrios
10-26-2013, 09:59 PM
:cool:Being the suspicious guy that I am, I'm inclined to believe that the blame for this latest ADW fiasco in PA also lies with the bigger ADWs and not just the horsemen's groups or the politicians. It appears they want to drive the smaller ADWs out, to make it like Illinois where only the "big 3" and "little 1" do business. I'm assuming that Twinspires, Xpressbet and TVG (via PAbets) will continue doing business in PA.

The list of states that have ADW issues keeps growing - Problems with PA, MA, NY, IL, TX, etc.

Seems like a boycott of the whole sport is the only thing left to do....I think that you could be right

DeanT
10-28-2013, 12:28 PM
From the DRF just in case you had not seen it.

http://www.drf.com/news/pennsylvania-law-boxes-out-unlicensed-adws

proximity
10-28-2013, 09:50 PM
Seems like a boycott of the whole sport is the only thing left to do....

for pennsylvania residents this is the ONLY thing to do.... boycotting ALL the tracks, because if you're a p.a. resident the lion's share of ALL of our bets (non p.a. tracks included) will go to support this evil p.a. racing.

can't do it.

pandy
10-28-2013, 10:53 PM
for pennsylvania residents this is the ONLY thing to do.... boycotting ALL the tracks, because if you're a p.a. resident the lion's share of ALL of our bets (non p.a. tracks included) will go to support this evil p.a. racing.

can't do it.


It's a good idea if we could get enough people.

camourous
10-29-2013, 08:49 AM
for pennsylvania residents this is the ONLY thing to do.... boycotting ALL the tracks, because if you're a p.a. resident the lion's share of ALL of our bets (non p.a. tracks included) will go to support this evil p.a. racing.

can't do it.

i boycotted Parx after the off the turf fiasco, won't bet on their product, bet at their track or do anything that gives money to the horsemen, gonna have to extend that to all PA tracks now.

ezmred
10-29-2013, 05:56 PM
i don't know what if anything this move by capital otb in upstate n.y. but it has hired twinspires as it new online website? churchill/twinspires must see money in n.y. racing maybe something to do with twinspires and license fee's in n.y.? the site looks to be just like twinspires only with capital otb's name on it and all around it.

ezmred

precocity
10-29-2013, 07:59 PM
talked to somebody I know who works for TS and he told me the texas fiasco has cost them millions so far? know wonder why I couldn't find a green dot card at cvs on saturdays... :D

pandy
02-01-2014, 10:29 AM
Just got an email from Empirecitybets.com that they are dumping PA residents. That's the third ADW that has dropped me because of the PA. 10% charge. Any good suggestions for off shore rebates?

Predator35
02-03-2014, 12:42 PM
Just got an email from Empirecitybets.com that they are dumping PA residents. That's the third ADW that has dropped me because of the PA. 10% charge. Any good suggestions for off shore rebates?


From PA too. Very unfortunate situation here and the only thing for a serious player to do IMO is to take there action off shore. 5dimes is the one that I would reccemend.

They have both a rebate book where I believe WPS rebates are 3% and exotics 8%. They also have a 10% bonus book where your winning wagers gets increased by 10%.

Hosshead
02-05-2014, 04:20 AM
Just curious, are there any (current) offshore companies that co-mingle our bets (not talking about whales) into the track pool, or is that not even possible? And if so, do they say upfront that bets are co-mingled?

pandy
02-05-2014, 09:00 AM
I used to bet with bookmaker and they were very reliable but now I see that they don't give rebates on harness (or dogs). Exotic internet bets are 8% and win, place and show are 3%, thoroughbred racing.

Predator35
02-05-2014, 11:56 AM
Just curious, are there any (current) offshore companies that co-mingle our bets (not talking about whales) into the track pool, or is that not even possible? And if so, do they say upfront that bets are co-mingled?


No. Unlike ADW sites who dont mind if you win, offshore just hopes you will lose. I think 5dimes has the highest cap you can win offshore on a bet which is 30K. At dimes you can even play pick 5's and pick 6's for smaller increments than adw's.

Track Collector
02-05-2014, 04:18 PM
Just got an email from Empirecitybets.com that they are dumping PA residents. That's the third ADW that has dropped me because of the PA. 10% charge. Any good suggestions for off shore rebates?

If one has significant handle each year (say like $50K and above), there are other legal options to "protect your rebate" in states like PA and NY. Anyone having further interest can contact me privately.


Chris


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