Thoroughbred Racing Protective Bureau

[TheEdge07]

Thoroughbred Racing Protective Bureau reports past-posting incident

http://www.drf.com/news/thoroughbred...sting-incident (http://www.drf.com/news/thoroughbred-racing-protective-bureau-reports-past-posting-incident)

[Stillriledup]

The scary part? How often does this happen on a very small scale and nobody knows about it. IF it happened here, are we supposed to think the racing industry, an industry still stuck in the 1970s, is going to be able to prevent past posting?

I've also talked here on these boards at length about the idea that since the Chris Harn situation in the BC over 10 years ago, we havent heard one peep about tote breeches and we didnt really hear one peep about what the industry did to prevent something like this from happening again.

Well, its happened again, i just shudder to think at all the money i've lost over the years due to the "skim".

[TheEdge07]

The scary part? How often does this happen on a very small scale and nobody knows about it. IF it happened here, are we supposed to think the racing industry, an industry still stuck in the 1970s, is going to be able to prevent past posting?

I've also talked here on these boards at length about the idea that since the Chris Harn situation in the BC over 10 years ago, we havent heard one peep about tote breeches and we didnt really hear one peep about what the industry did to prevent something like this from happening again.

Well, its happened again, i just shudder to think at all the money i've lost over the years due to the "skim".

Name the fing track

[Stillriledup]

Name the fing track

I agree, not sure what they're "hiding" but its the racing industry, transparency isnt exactly their strong suit.

[Milkshaker]

Put the security guards back at the mutuels office doors nationwide!

Immediately!

Red alert!

Just like in the aftermath of the '02 Fix Six!

[Stillriledup]

By not naming the track, you put customers in a position where they will be betting on that track's races without being able to make the decisions to abstain from betting that track.

[PaceAdvantage]

They said they will name the track after the investigation is complete.

Unless you believe this is a lie, I don't have a problem with this. Perfectly reasonable...

[highnote]

There is only one solution -- stop the betting at one minute to post. This gives enough time for all the batch wagers to get processed and displayed. Once all bets have been received then start the race.

This way everyone can see the final tote values for each horse.

It would be impossible to past post.

[Stillriledup]

They said they will name the track after the investigation is complete.

Unless you believe this is a lie, I don't have a problem with this. Perfectly reasonable...

It makes it seem that they're not naming the track so they can find a way to not have to eventually name the track, you know, sweep it under the rug. They are not investigating which track, they already have the answer, why not just say it?

[Stillriledup]

There is only one solution -- stop the betting at one minute to post. This gives enough time for all the batch wagers to get processed and displayed. Once all bets have been received then start the race.

This way everyone can see the final tote values for each horse.

It would be impossible to past post.

It doesnt matter if we can all see the final values because any last second large changes will come in too late for you to adjust anyway.

A lot happens in the load, lots of horses freaking out, breaking thru gates, refusing to enter the gate, jocks getting injured in the gate and having to be replaced, late scratches, horses losing shoes and running for purse money only and the list goes on...the system is fine the way it is, they just need to find a way to not allow past posting...but, in 2013, we are still seeing this stuff, god only knows what's really going on in these tote rooms.

[baconswitchfarm]

This is a private for profit company about to release a new product line for sale. This story is a commercial for them to push the purchase of their new product. Nothing more , nothing less.

[classhandicapper]

There is only one solution -- stop the betting at one minute to post. This gives enough time for all the batch wagers to get processed and displayed. Once all bets have been received then start the race.

This way everyone can see the final tote values for each horse.

It would be impossible to past post.

I agree.

[PaceAdvantage]

It makes it seem that they're not naming the track so they can find a way to not have to eventually name the track, you know, sweep it under the rug. They are not investigating which track, they already have the answer, why not just say it?Whispers I'm hearing say it's SRU Downs.... :eek:

[cj]

It doesnt matter if we can all see the final values because any last second large changes will come in too late for you to adjust anyway.


It isn't about adjusting, it is about integrity of the pools.

I find it funny that we are supposed to believe this can happen by accident, but that it doesn't happen intentionally. Yeah, sure.

[dasch]

I wonder if BSR/Fairplex is the track involved, they said it was 3 weeks ago and the incident where the 15-1 winner and 25-1 2nd placer had a $50 exacta payoff was on September 18th almost exactly 3 weeks from the date of the article.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

This is a private for profit company about to release a new product line for sale. This story is a commercial for them to push the purchase of their new product. Nothing more , nothing less.

Hmmmm.

My first thought on this story was "who or what is the Thoroughbred Racing Protective Bureau"? Never heard of them. Who pays their salaries and where does their profit/funding come from are very, very important things to know...

[sammy the sage]

Whispers I'm hearing say it's SRU Downs.... :eek:

now that thar's FUNNY... :lol:

[wisconsin]

Hmmmm.

My first thought on this story was "who or what is the Thoroughbred Racing Protective Bureau"? Never heard of them. Who pays their salaries and where does their profit/funding come from are very, very important things to know...


Know this, they are the same ones who lit up those Tampa Bay jocks a few years ago without ever being "specific" on the actual events, other than "allegations" about a non-specific "incident" at Great lakes and another at Delaware, again, without going further.

[ronsmac]

You're probably right. There was another race where are horse got buried after the start, that might have just been the computer boys pounding him late, but it looked really bad. Ironically that horse lost, and the winner went from 3-1 or so to5-1. I'm sure it was unrelated, but it really highlighted the problem with the last second computer batch betting. The tote board almost short circuited the odds changed so much in that race. before I get crucified I know its not the same, but it made me think of BSR when I first heard this story.

[raybo]

Hmmmm.

My first thought on this story was "who or what is the Thoroughbred Racing Protective Bureau"? Never heard of them. Who pays their salaries and where does their profit/funding come from are very, very important things to know...

$950 per month from every participating track/OTB/ADW, etc.. That's where the money will come from. And the ones who don't participate will lose the signals from those who are participating. That is the part that bothers me the most. Didn't we just go through that "signal" crap a couple of years ago? :bang:

[Stillriledup]

Whispers I'm hearing say it's SRU Downs.... :eek:

:D Good one Boss.

[Stillriledup]

It isn't about adjusting, it is about integrity of the pools.

I find it funny that we are supposed to believe this can happen by accident, but that it doesn't happen intentionally. Yeah, sure.

True, integrity is all that matters...i was just thinking that shutting the pools early sort of lets the industry off the hook, it doesnt force them to actually spend money to make this system "iron clad" and tougher to hack than anything else out there. Hackers can seem to hack into anything, but the advantage that the racing industry has is that they can rewiew, after the fact, odd betting patterns and prices that come up "short" and see if there was an integrity breach. Of course, we don't know if they do this or even care, you know, there's nothing in it for them to sniff out people who are able to get money into the pools after the start or even after the race is over, they get their "cut" of the takeout, there's really no icentive for them to uncover a "scandal" when the scandal doesnt hurt their own bottom line.

[Track Phantom]

$950 per month from every participating track/OTB/ADW, etc.. That's where the money will come from. And the ones who don't participate will lose the signals from those who are participating. That is the part that bothers me the most. Didn't we just go through that "signal" crap a couple of years ago? :bang:

This is PERFECT!!! If you're a small outfit and can't afford to come on board at the cost necessary to protect your bettors and the integrity of the game, you need to shut your doors today.

This pandering to these tracks (slot money, etc) to keep them putting out their racing product is BS. The tracks need to find a way to participate on a major league level or be a small, niche local product.

The industry can't and shouldn't find ways to prop up the small tracks (or larger tracks with poor management and business models).

I love this approach. It is national and unified. That is something seriously missing in this sport.

Any bettor that has one iota of a complaint about this should never be allowed to bitch when odds change down on winners after the race, stories come out with past posting, etc.

Embrace it and demand it. About time some legitimate action is taken to enhance integrity.

One other thought....How long would past posting be going on if the tracks were the ones footing the bill, not the player? When a past poster puts in $100 after the race, the track takes $23 or so of those dollars and the rest is distributed to the players and a depressed rate if they are all winning bets. Imagine if it wasn't pari-mutuel wagering and they were fixed odds. The past posting problem would be non-existent. That is what bothers me!

[Stillriledup]

This is PERFECT!!! If you're a small outfit and can't afford to come on board at the cost necessary to protect your bettors and the integrity of the game, you need to shut your doors today.

This pandering to these tracks (slot money, etc) to keep them putting out their racing product is BS. The tracks need to find a way to participate on a major league level or be a small, niche local product.

The industry can't and shouldn't find ways to prop up the small tracks (or larger tracks with poor management and business models).

I love this approach. It is national and unified. That is something seriously missing in this sport.

Any bettor that has one iota of a complaint about this should never be allowed to bitch when odds change down on winners after the race, stories come out with past posting, etc.

Embrace it and demand it. About time some legitimate action is taken to enhance integrity.

One other thought....How long would past posting be going on if the tracks were the ones footing the bill, not the player? When a past poster puts in $100 after the race, the track takes $23 or so of those dollars and the rest is distributed to the players and a depressed rate if they are all winning bets. Imagine if it wasn't pari-mutuel wagering and they were fixed odds. The past posting problem would be non-existent. That is what bothers me!

Exactly right, you can bet your last bottom dollar if the hackers or people betting after the start were taking money from the TRACK and not just other bettors, it would be an entirely different story. Tracks actually probably like money coming in after the start because they're getting a cut of the money that wouldnt otherwise be bet.

[Stillriledup]

A question i would ask is this.

If they didnt want to release the track until the investigation was complete, why not just complete the investigation before saying anything at all?

[dasch]

I wonder if BSR/Fairplex is the track involved, they said it was 3 weeks ago and the incident where the 15-1 winner and 25-1 2nd placer had a $50 exacta payoff was on September 18th almost exactly 3 weeks from the date of the article.

On the Roger Stein show this morning Jon Hardoon said matter of factly that this was the race involved. He didnt give any source just stated this WAS the race involved.

Will be interesting to find out all of the details.

On the other California racing show the weekend after that race, Jay Privman said oh that somebody must have thought they were betting Belmont or some other track and bet BSR by accident. I couldnt believe he said that, im sure the DRF tells him to NEVER say anything negative about horse racing but come on just dont say anything, dont insult people's intelligence by making ridiculous statements.

[cj]

A question i would ask is this.

If they didnt want to release the track until the investigation was complete, why not just complete the investigation before saying anything at all?

Unless I missed the report being released, this must be one hell of an investigation.

[iceknight]

A question i would ask is this.

If they didnt want to release the track until the investigation was complete, why not just complete the investigation before saying anything at all? There must ve been a leak somewhere and so they quickly moved to put out a press release saying they are working on it?

[Track Collector]

I wonder if BSR/Fairplex is the track involved, they said it was 3 weeks ago and the incident where the 15-1 winner and 25-1 2nd placer had a $50 exacta payoff was on September 18th almost exactly 3 weeks from the date of the article.

It is entirely possible to have a $50 exacta between horses with 15-1 and 25-1 odds, but there would have to be a very heavily favored horse in the race, in which case the 15-1 might be something like the 3rd-most bet horse. I suspect this is not the case, thus the reason for the investigation.

Should it prove out to be a case of past-posting, I find it interesting that those responsible are either greedy or arrogant, which is usually the main factor for "flagging" the crime in the first place.

[Stillriledup]

Unless I missed the report being released, this must be one hell of an investigation.

Construction companies have constructed 2 billion dollar buildings in the time it takes these people to "investigate" betting fraud.

Hopefully we all don't die of old age waiting for them to tell us that "everything is ok folks, nothing to see here, time to move on"

[thaskalos]

Who in their right mind would believe that this type of thing is "extremely rare"...and that it is "almost always detected" when it does occur?

"Ringers" have been recently entered into races without them being discovered...and we are supposed to believe that the game employs equipment sophisticated enough to prevent past-posting?

That's laughable...

[PaceAdvantage]

Be honest...none of you maniacs would stop playing whatever track this turns out to be, even if you knew the name right off the bat...

[Robert Goren]

Be honest...none of you maniacs would stop playing whatever track this turns out to be, even if you knew the name right off the bat...So why not name it if it would cost them business?

[bks]

Let's also be clear about this incident. As described, it's not past-posting; it's past-finishing. This is even worse, since all risk is taken out.

This is not to diminish the fraudulence of mere past-posting, something I had thought of prior to this as the placing of bets a few seconds after the gates open, not after the race was made official.

The game stinks. If you're doing this for more than recreation, you'd better have a pretty big edge to make up for crap like this.

[PaceAdvantage]

So why not name it if it would cost them business?Because they like to act like a real law enforcement dept who would tell you the same thing about alleged crimes they are investigating? I don't know their motivation, so I just made that up...sounds good...

[Stillriledup]

So why not name it if it would cost them business?

The reason they're not naming the track is that they're hoping we forget about it so they can sweep it under the rug, that rug sweeping thing is very popular in horse racing.

[cj]

Seriously, how deep is this investigation going?

[thespaah]

It makes it seem that they're not naming the track so they can find a way to not have to eventually name the track, you know, sweep it under the rug. They are not investigating which track, they already have the answer, why not just say it?
Remember the 5th Amendment. Right to Due Process.
Naming of the track prior to the completion of the investigation and the gathering of proof the incident took place at that track, would deprive the track's operators their right to due process.
The Protective Bureau would leave itself open to civil penalties if it released the name of the track before all the facts are gathered.

[Stillriledup]

Remember the 5th Amendment. Right to Due Process.
Naming of the track prior to the completion of the investigation and the gathering of proof the incident took place at that track, would deprive the track's operators their right to due process.
The Protective Bureau would leave itself open to civil penalties if it released the name of the track before all the facts are gathered.

Unless i'm mistaken, they said they know the track that is in question...its not like they THINK they know and don't want to accuse a track before all the facts are in, they know, they have the information, its not a question of which track was the culprit, they have the info....they just refuse to tell us who it was.

[highnote]

Unless i'm mistaken, they said they know the track that is in question...its not like they THINK they know and don't want to accuse a track before all the facts are in, they know, they have the information, its not a question of which track was the culprit, they have the info....they just refuse to tell us who it was.


There are a lot of gambling types on this website. Let's put up some odds on which track it is!

[baconswitchfarm]

Remember the 5th Amendment. Right to Due Process.
Naming of the track prior to the completion of the investigation and the gathering of proof the incident took place at that track, would deprive the track's operators their right to due process.
The Protective Bureau would leave itself open to civil penalties if it released the name of the track before all the facts are gathered.


Due process protects you from prosecution . There is no chance of prosecution here. This is a private company with no ability to charge anyone with anything. This investigation lasted ten minutes. They know what tracks pools were bet into and the location the bets were made at. That's it , dead end. Investigation over. Just wait for the next item that needs sweeping under the rug.

[jk3521]

Gee!! it's sad that horseracing is the only place where there is corruption now days :eek: :eek: :eek: :faint: :faint: :faint: ;) ;) ;) :D :D :D :lol: :lol: :lol:

Get over it!!

[thespaah]

Due process protects you from prosecution . There is no chance of prosecution here. This is a private company with no ability to charge anyone with anything. This investigation lasted ten minutes. They know what tracks pools were bet into and the location the bets were made at. That's it , dead end. Investigation over. Just wait for the next item that needs sweeping under the rug.
Thus the caveat under 'civil' penalties. In other words the track management can claim financial damages were incurred due to a negligent act.

[Stillriledup]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg

:eek:

Anyone hear anything about this "investigation"?

[cj]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg

:eek:

Anyone hear anything about this "investigation"?

I don't think Watergate took this long.

[Stillriledup]

I don't think Watergate took this long.

About a week from now it will be about 2 months. Phileas Fogg is almost back home.

[Stillriledup]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg :eek:

[Hoofless_Wonder]

No rush, SRU. These folks have been around since 1946, so they have a longer timeline than most of us - according to their website:

http://www.trpb.com/index.html

They keep a pretty damn low profile too - I've been a fan of the sport since 1985 and had never heard of the TRPB until I read this thread....

[dasch]

Its now 5 months later and nothing else about this??

[cj]

Its now 5 months later and nothing else about this??

I just saw a report where the investigation into the Payne Stewart plane crash just concluded, with no real finding. That took just short of 15 years. We still have time!

[Valuist]

I wonder how much money it would take at a track, such as the Fair Grounds, where a horse like Heitia, could get bet from 7-2 when the gates open down to 2-1 when he had crossed the finish line.

[Stillriledup]

Its now 5 months later and nothing else about this??

Hopefully we all live to ripe old ages so we can see the final result.

[dasch]

Hopefully we all live to ripe old ages so we can see the final result.


We need to keep top posting all of these type of situations and not let them die until fully disclosed. Thats what "they" hope, that it will all be forgotten and swept under the rug like always.

IMO money is being stolen everyday but most of the time on a much smaller scale so it isnt noticed.

[1st time lasix]

***I stopped playing Calder right after one of those DRF handicapper"s forums in Las Vegas. Sat at lunch with a well-known trainer stat guy along with a high level executive at Tote. The lunch topic at the time was the "odds drop" after the gate opens. The executive clearly indicated that Calder was taking money into their pools far later than people percieved. {nearly 20 seconds into each race} so i then repeatedly watched the odds drop on front runners who secured preferred positions. They haven't recieved a dime of my money at the windows ever since.....so if it becomes clear to me that any track is allowing this type of "skim" preferred behavior...I will not play. I think integrity-- is the one single attribute I demand and should be offered in any life circumstance. Nothing is even a close second.

[Stillriledup]

***I stopped playing Calder right after one of those DRF handicapper"s forums in Las Vegas. Sat at lunch with a well-known trainer stat guy along with a high level executive at Tote. The lunch topic at the time was the "odds drop" after the gate opens. The executive clearly indicated that Calder was taking money into their pools far later than people percieved. {nearly 20 seconds into each race} so i then repeatedly watched the odds drop on front runners who secured preferred positions. They haven't recieved a dime of my money at the windows ever since.....so if it becomes clear to me that any track is allowing this type of "skim" preferred behavior...I will not play. I think integrity-- is the one single attribute I demand and should be offered in any life circumstance. Nothing is even a close second.

If i asked anyone here to name the tote company who is handling each track in America, would anyone know? Would fans be able to rattle off those "tote owners" and tote companies for each individual track? Im guessing most won't have the foggiest clue. "Tote Security" is rarely, if ever, mentioned in the press, i don't remember Paulick or anyone like that doing an expose on tote companies and if there is a "skim" going on.

You know, its great to create false flags (like the Gulfstream DQ controversy, or supertrainers doing supertrainer things, etc) so people don't question if "they" are "skimming" small amounts of money off the top of large prices, you know, stick 1 dollar on the winning combination and nobody is going to really question if a trifecta pays 2300 for a buck or 2000, who's going to really shout "that tri is light at 2000, i want an investigation".

There are no investitations on "short" prices or ANY prices for that matter.

We had the BC Pick 6 scandal and those guys got "caught" and now, we're supposed to believe that "everything is ok" because its been "proven" that you can't cheat the tote and get away with it?

Since the BC Scandal over 10 years ago, have we read ONE article that tote systems have been upgraded and that tracks and the racing industry have done one thing to make sure that people cant bet after the start or even after the race is over? You would have to imagine that if even one track spent a lot of money to upgrade their systems, you would have heard about it.but nothing, not a peep.

AND, the other question you have to ask yourself is this. Tracks could care less WHO actually wins, all they care about is getting more money into the pool so they can grab the rake...if people are betting after the start or after the race, their money is going to be subject to that "Rake" so why would tracks spend extra money to PREVENT the post race bettor from betting? So they can cost themselves money?

The best thing a bettor can do is to bet WPS or exactas and stay away from the blind pools, at least you have a fighting chance that you're not getting "skimmed" after the fact....although i'd never put anything past anyone.

We always talk about how the racing industry is "behind the times" yet, when it comes to tote security, we just assume that the racing industry is as safe as fort knox and nobody can get in and get out while "Skimming" large prices so that nobody knows? We all discussed that if Harn and the Drexel boys were smarter and they didnt get really unlucky that a big longshot won the classic, they would probably still be skimming money and living in mansions on the backs of the horse player.

Keep that in mind, it was a fluke that Harn got caught...he didnt get caught because the "industry" was so vigilant and making sure that exotic prices were "jiving" with what they were supposed to pay, they got caught only because they made a pick 6 pay 1/100th (or something bizarre) of what would have been a "Fair" price.

We shouldnt let this get lost in the fact that they got caught, it was flukey they got caught and not because of the "vigilance" of the people who are supposed to make sure nobody is betting after the start or after the race is actually over.

[alydar]

***I stopped playing Calder right after one of those DRF handicapper"s forums in Las Vegas. Sat at lunch with a well-known trainer stat guy along with a high level executive at Tote. The lunch topic at the time was the "odds drop" after the gate opens. The executive clearly indicated that Calder was taking money into their pools far later than people percieved. {nearly 20 seconds into each race} so i then repeatedly watched the odds drop on front runners who secured preferred positions. They haven't recieved a dime of my money at the windows ever since.....so if it becomes clear to me that any track is allowing this type of "skim" preferred behavior...I will not play. I think integrity-- is the one single attribute I demand and should be offered in any life circumstance. Nothing is even a close second.

Clearly tracks are still receiving tote information well into races. 20 seconds sounds about right, but in some cases it is even longer. That does not mean that people are post posting. It just takes that long after the betting closes to get all the dollars added up. In some cases bets are hoping through a number of stops before getting to the track. I said this before, but the only real solution to this is to cut off betting as the load commences. That way when the gate opens you will be seeing true final odds. That doesn't mean that there will not be some dramatic late odd changes, but at least they will not be happening when the race is on. I think that everybody would adjust to the new reality fairly quickly, it just requires that all tracks comply, so that no one has a competitive advantage.

The tote system needs to be upgraded. But the question is who is going to pay for it? The tote business is not the greatest business to be in now, the margins are very tight. Tracks and other wagering providers do not want to pay for it, so that is where we are. Everyone agrees it should be better, but no one wants to pay for it.

[Stillriledup]

Clearly tracks are still receiving tote information well into races. 20 seconds sounds about right, but in some cases it is even longer. That does not mean that people are post posting. It just takes that long after the betting closes to get all the dollars added up. In some cases bets are hoping through a number of stops before getting to the track. I said this before, but the only real solution to this is to cut off betting as the load commences. That way when the gate opens you will be seeing true final odds. That doesn't mean that there will not be some dramatic late odd changes, but at least they will not be happening when the race is on. I think that everybody would adjust to the new reality fairly quickly, it just requires that all tracks comply, so that no one has a competitive advantage.

The tote system needs to be upgraded. But the question is who is going to pay for it? The tote business is not the greatest business to be in now, the margins are very tight. Tracks and other wagering providers do not want to pay for it, so that is where we are. Everyone agrees it should be better, but no one wants to pay for it.

I would suggest that they just stop betting on the BLIND pools with 1 MTP, that way, we can see the exact amount that is in the pool, nobody can add or subtract from that amount, so if there are people watching the first 5 seconds and cancelling, they're out of business, same for people who are adding 1 or 2 dollars to winning combinations after the race is actually over.

[raybo]

I would suggest that they just stop betting on the BLIND pools with 1 MTP, that way, we can see the exact amount that is in the pool, nobody can add or subtract from that amount, so if there are people watching the first 5 seconds and cancelling, they're out of business, same for people who are adding 1 or 2 dollars to winning combinations after the race is actually over.

How does "SRU Downs" operate? :lol:

[Stillriledup]

How does "SRU Downs" operate? :lol:

Carefully. :D

[dasch]

No money needs to be spent. The pools either close at a set time or as soon as the horses are at the gate and ready to load. They did this after the BC fix 6 and then after about a month went back to the old way saying that the handle was way down because "people" were getting shut out. This fact almost in itself proves a decent amount of money is being past posted.

I get shut out occasionally the way things are done now but if there was a set time that the pool closed I would make damn sure I got my bets in before that time.

[fmolf]

I would like to know how it is done ....The past posting?Is itdone by computer geniuses,or regular bettors like we are on here?Maybe its done in conjunction with certain tellers or backroom tote workers?....If i thought that their was any widespread hanky panky going on (and i do not)I would notplay.simple as that!

[Stillriledup]

I would like to know how it is done ....The past posting?Is itdone by computer geniuses,or regular bettors like we are on here?Maybe its done in conjunction with certain tellers or backroom tote workers?....If i thought that their was any widespread hanky panky going on (and i do not)I would notplay.simple as that!

Its done by people who know how to do it and cover their tracks. Its certainly not done by regular bettors.

However widespread this stuff is, you just need to ask one question.

Can the greatest hackers in the world "get into" the racing pari mutuel system, OR, do they pick 'easier targets'? (pardon the pun)

[fmolf]

Its done by people who know how to do it and cover their tracks. Its certainly not done by regular bettors.

However widespread this stuff is, you just need to ask one question.

Can the greatest hackers in the world "get into" the racing pari mutuel system, OR, do they pick 'easier targets'? (pardon the pun)
I think every one is over reacting to this ...If it were that widespread i think that the rainbow 6 would be hit more often as well as all the other lottery type bets that carryover often.

[dasch]

I would like to know how it is done ....The past posting?Is itdone by computer geniuses,or regular bettors like we are on here?Maybe its done in conjunction with certain tellers or backroom tote workers?....If i thought that their was any widespread hanky panky going on (and i do not)I would notplay.simple as that!


Do you like the thought that the loopholes in the system DO exist there so that it IS possible for this to happen regardless of if you believe it already is? That these pools and timestamps arent regulated? That people have ALREADY BEEN CAUGHT doing what you dont think is going on?

[Stillriledup]

I think every one is over reacting to this ...If it were that widespread i think that the rainbow 6 would be hit more often as well as all the other lottery type bets that carryover often.

But that assumes these people are stupid and they'll do exactly what Harn/Drexel did, and that is to try and win "too much". The key to going undetected is to take a small amount at a time on days and in races where nobody is paying attention. Scooping the Rainbow 6 would be repeating the mistake that Harn did, trying to "get it all" .

Best way to do it is nickel and dime it, that way, nobody will be the wiser.

[Stillriledup]

I think every one is over reacting to this ...If it were that widespread i think that the rainbow 6 would be hit more often as well as all the other lottery type bets that carryover often.
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101291&highlight=ray%27s+storm

[fmolf]

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101291&highlight=ray%27s+storm
sothese supposed computer geniuses are skimming small amounts at all different tracks....avoiding detection ....not scooping enough to arouse suspicion ...so no signers for them.I do not think it would be worth their while ....While it might go on very very occasionally i do not think it is widespread....Computer hackers and supposed geniuses i believe would have bigger targets than that.

[Stillriledup]

sothese supposed computer geniuses are skimming small amounts at all different tracks....avoiding detection ....not scooping enough to arouse suspicion ...so no signers for them.I do not think it would be worth their while ....While it might go on very very occasionally i do not think it is widespread....Computer hackers and supposed geniuses i believe would have bigger targets than that.

I dont know if its widespread or not, but i wouldnt put anything past anyone especially since there's really no incentive for the industry to "catch" pari mutuel crooks since all tracks care about is how much money get bet, they don't care who actually wins.

[fmolf]

Being from Long Island and following NYRAtracks i do know that since they installed the new betting machines and tote system that there are much less precipitious drops in the odds after the race begins.This is due to the on track system processing the data quicker....Everyone complained at first because the tickets printed out from the machines had such small font size ,this is still a problem but getting used to it now.Just need to wear my readers is all!

[Poindexter]

Just some thoughts on this issue. Regarding the pick 3's, 4's, 5's, 6's, seems like a fairly easy fix. Once all the tickets are in, download a printout of each combination and how much money is bet on each. Also download a printout of each ticket with it's time stamp. When that last race is official make sure that the number of winning tickets matches your printout. If it doesn't you have cheating/tampering going. Refer to your second download, figure out what winning tickets are bogus, flag them and arrest the person trying to collect.

Past posting is completely ridiculous. I sort of have to concur with the post by Alydar above. They are not going to take the steps they need to prevent it so just close the pools early enough so we know the final odds prior to the race taking off. Of course this will not happen either(it will cost them way too much money) so I have a hunch horse players are SOL on this one. Pretty sad.

It amazes me how oblivious this industry is to the concerns of horse players.
It's okay the Rainbow Six will save the day. :lol:

[aaron]

Being from Long Island and following NYRAtracks i do know that since they installed the new betting machines and tote system that there are much less precipitious drops in the odds after the race begins.This is due to the on track system processing the data quicker....Everyone complained at first because the tickets printed out from the machines had such small font size ,this is still a problem but getting used to it now.Just need to wear my readers is all!
You must be watching different races than I am.

[ultracapper]

Stillriledup said "they got caught only because they made a pick 6 pay 1/100th (or something bizarre) of what would have been a "Fair" price."

They didn't get caught because somebody looked at the payoff and said, "Geewiz. That P6 paid a lot less than you would think". They got caught because after the mega longshot Valponi won the classic, it left only 6 winning tickets, all structured the same way, all generated from the same source. If one of the top 2 or 3 picks in the Classic would have won, leaving 800 or 1000 winning tickets to split the P6 pool, there may have been a chance that nobody would have investigated each individual winning ticket, and maybe they could have got away with it. Valponi saved horseracing as we know it today, not some observant Tote employee.

[Stillriledup]

Stillriledup said "they got caught only because they made a pick 6 pay 1/100th (or something bizarre) of what would have been a "Fair" price."

They didn't get caught because somebody looked at the payoff and said, "Geewiz. That P6 paid a lot less than you would think". They got caught because after the mega longshot Valponi won the classic, it left only 6 winning tickets, all structured the same way, all generated from the same source. If one of the top 2 or 3 picks in the Classic would have won, leaving 800 or 1000 winning tickets to split the P6 pool, there may have been a chance that nobody would have investigated each individual winning ticket, and maybe they could have got away with it. Valponi saved horseracing as we know it today, not some observant Tote employee.

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/From-The-Rail-Cyber-fix-was-in-The-Hat-1104969.php

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Stillriledup said "they got caught only because they made a pick 6 pay 1/100th (or something bizarre) of what would have been a "Fair" price."

They didn't get caught because somebody looked at the payoff and said, "Geewiz. That P6 paid a lot less than you would think". They got caught because after the mega longshot Valponi won the classic, it left only 6 winning tickets, all structured the same way, all generated from the same source. If one of the top 2 or 3 picks in the Classic would have won, leaving 800 or 1000 winning tickets to split the P6 pool, there may have been a chance that nobody would have investigated each individual winning ticket, and maybe they could have got away with it. Valponi saved horseracing as we know it today, not some observant Tote employee.

I believe the ticket they structured was 4 singles in a row, and ALL and ALL in the last two legs - for $12.

Even if a bomb hadn't won the last race at 40-1, rudimentary checks in place should have flagged such an odd wagering pattern....

[BlueShoe]

I just saw a report where the investigation into the Payne Stewart plane crash just concluded, with no real finding. That took just short of 15 years. We still have time!
They're still looking for Amelia Earhart. Think that she will be found before we get the results of this naughty little thing?

[Stillriledup]

I believe the ticket they structured was 4 singles in a row, and ALL and ALL in the last two legs - for $12.

Even if a bomb hadn't won the last race at 40-1, rudimentary checks in place should have flagged such an odd wagering pattern....

There are no rudimentary checks, there's zero chance this would have been caught and outed if the racing fans didnt go nuts. If not one fan said a boo about the pick 6 and not one person complained about the "odd price" there's zero chance any "rudimentary check" would have even been made, much less someone getting outed for betting shenanigans.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

There are no rudimentary checks, there's zero chance this would have been caught and outed if the racing fans didnt go nuts. If not one fan said a boo about the pick 6 and not one person complained about the "odd price" there's zero chance any "rudimentary check" would have even been made, much less someone getting outed for betting shenanigans.

I'd like to argue with you SRU, but you're probably right. Can you imagine all the nod-nod, wink-wink going if they had been forced to print the ticket out and cash it later?

"Hey Sarge, check this guy's pick 6 ticket! $12 "cold" with four singles and two ALLs!!!"

I mean, come on. How hard would it be to code some simple checks? Taking down a $700,000 on six tickets isn't odd, except when all six winners were bet on the same wager..... :bang:

[Stillriledup]

Is the investigation over? What's the word J Curtis LINNELL?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4zyjLyBp64

[Stillriledup]

I'm running out of videos of crickets chirping and Ben Stein saying "Bueller, Bueller"

[wiffleball whizz]

Bump

[TheEdge07]

Bump

Like everything else in racing Whizz-No one cares

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Patience SRU, patience. Maybe we'll know what happened in next year's annual report.

http://www.trpb.com/mission.htm

It doesn't appear as if the TRPB is very diligent about reporting on their findings, though perusing through their website, they are busy protecting the bettors. The other thread about the recent past posting at Delaware could not have happened, as the TRPB implemented a new secure tote system last year, and Delaware would have had to comply to their new system.

<insert giant eye rolling emoticon here>

Check.

[PaceAdvantage]

Why don't some of the more concerned among us (namely Edge & Whizz) contact the TRPB directly? Or don't they have an email address/phone number?

[Stillriledup]

Why don't some of the more concerned among us (namely Edge & Whizz) contact the TRPB directly? Or don't they have an email address/phone number?

They're the "protective bureau" but the 64 dollar question is:

Who are they protecting? Not the bettors.

[PaceAdvantage]

They're the "protective bureau" but the 64 dollar question is:

Who are they protecting? Not the bettors.This is an answer to my question? It says "to protect and serve" on the side of the cop car, yet you still have to call 911 most of the time to get them to show up... :rolleyes:

[Stillriledup]

This is an answer to my question? It says "to protect and serve" on the side of the cop car, yet you still have to call 911 most of the time to get them to show up... :rolleyes:

Linnell said that when the investigation is complete, the identity of the track will be released.

This sentence above was in the original DRF article, nowhere does it say that bettors have to hunt them down to get some info.

[wiffleball whizz]

Why don't some of the more concerned among us (namely Edge & Whizz) contact the TRPB directly? Or don't they have an email address/phone number?

PA you own the best gambling forum in the world.....why don't you call and demand answers!!!!!


I see too many people around here giving the benefit of the doubt to the past posters and whatnot......in the rare event there is a horse that goes from 3/5 to 6/5 during race or 3/1 to 4/1 and win during the race you get the blind that come here and make a "conspiracy theorist" remark......

Very surprised at how long people have been playing this game how oblivious they are to late betting and so on

WAKE UP PEOPLE your getting scummed by people that aren't hogs and just betting there 100s and taking what they can get......

[Stillriledup]

PA you own the best gambling forum in the world.....why don't you call and demand answers!!!!!


I see too many people around here giving the benefit of the doubt to the past posters and whatnot......in the rare event there is a horse that goes from 3/5 to 6/5 during race or 3/1 to 4/1 and win during the race you get the blind that come here and make a "conspiracy theorist" remark......

Very surprised at how long people have been playing this game how oblivious they are to late betting and so on

WAKE UP PEOPLE your getting scummed by people that aren't hogs and just betting there 100s and taking what they can get......

Someone with "pull" has to call....if Whiffleball Whiz calls, they're going to tell you to take a hike, same with SRU and a few others.

BUT, someone with pull makes a call, things get done.

forward to 6:45 , maybe Joe Pesci can get things done. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPOfurmrjxo

[wiffleball whizz]

PA has to make the call.......the guys forum is the voice of Americas horse players......

Make the call PA and demand the truth :lol: :lol: :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

Nobody knows me from Adam. Why not try and get someone like Ray Paulick to take up the cause? Trust me...if enough of you call or email the TRPB, they will take notice. Especially if someone has some good evidence.

Same goes for Ray.

[alydar]

I have worked with the TRPB in the past. If anyone has real credible evidence I am sure they would want to hear about it from anybody that may have it. All I have seen here is speculation.

[Stillriledup]

I have worked with the TRPB in the past. If anyone has real credible evidence I am sure they would want to hear about it from anybody that may have it. All I have seen here is speculation.

I don't believe that average, everyday Joe's have access to the tote rooms around the country. So, the "credible evidence" can only be gotten to by insiders. Its the average Joe's who come up with the speculation, that's all we can come up with as we aren't privy to the inner workings of the betting systems at these tracks.

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't believe that average, everyday Joe's have access to the tote rooms around the country. So, the "credible evidence" can only be gotten to by insiders. Its the average Joe's who come up with the speculation, that's all we can come up with as we aren't privy to the inner workings of the betting systems at these tracks.Yeah, so bring it to their attention. Duh.

[Stillriledup]

Yeah, so bring it to their attention. Duh.

J Curtis Linnell had the past posting incident 'brought to his attention" last October and did nothing about it, swept it under the rug, its over 6 months later and no sign of any announcement or what they're going to do about it and how they're going to "make it right" with the customers who bet on that race honestly.

So, bringing it to their attention is a waste of time, nobody cares, its pretty obvious that's the case.

[PaceAdvantage]

Guess we're screwed then...

[Stillriledup]

Guess we're screwed then...

Unless you take Whizzers advice and pull some strings, you know, toss your weight around. :)

[PaceAdvantage]

If I had evidence in my possession, I would. But I haven't personally witnessed the stuff that's been posted here. Shouldn't those who have seen these things be the ones writing the emails?

Believe it or not, there ARE people in the industry who take things like this seriously when brought to their attention.

[Stillriledup]

If I had evidence in my possession, I would. But I haven't personally witnessed the stuff that's been posted here. Shouldn't those who have seen these things be the ones writing the emails?

Believe it or not, there ARE people in the industry who takes things like this seriously when brought to their attention.

How can you have evidence unless you have access to the tote rooms?

All you can get is odd payoffs and odd betting shifts, but the other stuff is left up to the people with the access.

[johnhannibalsmith]

At this point I jump in to say that SRU is finally headed down the right path. It seems like typical impasse at this phase, but there's no reason for that. If even one person can see the details of wagering activity, then 100% of people can see that wagering activity. There is no national security risk to regular audits and the release of that information. The only thing that can be deduced is that it may lead to a perception risk or that it is simply a task too herculean or unimportant for and to an industry that handles billions in transactions yearly to engage in. If it is the latter then just hang your heads down low enough in shame to look down towards our eyes and say so. If it is the former, well then, better keep the status quo.

[castaway01]

How can you have evidence unless you have access to the tote rooms?

All you can get is odd payoffs and odd betting shifts, but the other stuff is left up to the people with the access.

Because someone posts on this site and claims to have "evidence" of something nefarious, like past posting, and that is good enough for you and your clones to post 50 times in every thread about how it's greatest injustice in racing history, we're all getting ripped off, no one cares...but when someone asks you to actually, you know, do something...then suddenly there's no evidence, no proof, no one can possibly have access to any evidence and who would care?

Any explanation as to your logic there, or is it just your usual trolling?

[Stillriledup]

At this point I jump in to say that SRU is finally headed down the right path. It seems like typical impasse at this phase, but there's no reason for that. If even one person can see the details of wagering activity, then 100% of people can see that wagering activity. There is no national security risk to regular audits and the release of that information. The only thing that can be deduced is that it may lead to a perception risk or that it is simply a task too herculean or unimportant for and to an industry that handles billions in transactions yearly to engage in. If it is the latter then just hang your heads down low enough in shame to look down towards our eyes and say so. If it is the former, well then, better keep the status quo.

Thanks. I appreciate the "right path" comments, feels good to be headed in the right direction for once in my life! :D

I think we would get something done if the tracks themselves were the ones losing money off the betting that's done after the start or after the race is over, but since that money only comes out of the pockets of the winning bettors, nobody is rushing to spend money to upgrade tote systems.

[Jeff P]

FYI, I took the time to email someone involved with tote integrity at the NTRA. Included in my email were links to the threads here at Paceadvantage and a separate thread that popped up at Chicago barntowire.

I'm just a lowly horseplayer and cannot make any promises about how the NTRA, TRBP, or TRA 20/20 Committee might respond to what is being alleged here.

But now they will at least be aware that players are raising questions about tote integrity (if they weren't aware already.)

-jp

.

[Stillriledup]

I wonder if BSR/Fairplex is the track involved, they said it was 3 weeks ago and the incident where the 15-1 winner and 25-1 2nd placer had a $50 exacta payoff was on September 18th almost exactly 3 weeks from the date of the article.

Or, maybe Delaware? :eek:

[Stillriledup]

Have we all forgotten about this, or, do we still think this is a serious issue that needs to come out?

Bueller?

[EMD4ME]

Have we all forgotten about this, or, do we still think this is a serious issue that needs to come out?

Bueller?

It will never come out. They want us to just swallow all cases of bs.

[lamboguy]

i had posted awhile ago that the best way to insure integrity of the pools is to time every wager that comes in. i know that all the ADW's wagering closes right at the bell. but just to argue a point that racing needs to accept bets right until post time. i say that every wager needs to be time stamped, whether on paper or with some type of software. if a bet is accepted at 2:33.16, then any winning bet prior to that gets paid. if it is timed at 2:33.17, then it is not paid and not refunded. i have asked a software expert if this is possible to write and he said its pretty simple and not that costly.

not paying and refunding will stop all after the bell wagers and also with this implemented should relay some type of confidence in the system. this also should add plenty of handle from those that are very skeptical of the tote system.

[PaceAdvantage]

Why don't one of you write the TRPB, or call them, and let us know what they tell you...maybe file a FOIA request...

[cj]

Why don't one of you write the TRPB, or call them, and let us know what they tell you...maybe file a FOIA request...

Done. (again, never heard anything about six months ago)

[PaceAdvantage]

Actually, the best thing to do would get some media pressure on them...perhaps Ray Paulick...

But then again, cj has star-power behind his name, so maybe something will come of this.

[baconswitchfarm]

maybe file a FOIA request...




That's a good one.

[Stillriledup]

Actually, the best thing to do would get some media pressure on them...perhaps Ray Paulick...

But then again, cj has star-power behind his name, so maybe something will come of this.

The best way to handle things is to sweep them under the rug. The reason its the best course of action is because most times, people will just turn the page and forget. When people don't forget, there's always a half hearted apology available.

I do agree that Paulick or someone else in the media needs to dig into this more and make sure it doesn't die on the boiler room floor. Nothing will get done unless people get called out by national media members, its up to them to determine if this is ok or not.

I know that people have been irked with my comments about "Free doughnuts and coffee" in pressboxes and not rocking the boat, but there are too many "media" who just go thru the motions and write fluff stories as well as stories that people don't care about instead of digging and investigating things like this.

For all we know, a crime could have been committed here, nobody is saying anything, people's money was essentially stolen and they're acting like its just part of doing business.

[cj]

Matt Hegarty wrote the article. You'd think he'd be the guy to follow up.

[cj]

The investigation was completed and the results were shared with the tracks and racing commissions involved. It is up to them, not the TRPB, to share the results. Obviously they have chosen not to do so.

[Stillriledup]

The investigation was completed and the results were shared with the tracks and racing commissions involved. It is up to them, not the TRPB, to share the results. Obviously they have chosen not to do so.

Thanks for this, appreciate the legwork you did to get this info.

Here's a sentence from the original article:

Linnell said that when the investigation is complete, the identity of the track will be released. (linnell is no longer working with them?)

Now, if they weren't allowed to release their findings, wouldn't they have said that?

Or, maybe they meant that the identity of the track will be released to other tracks and not to the public.

What i would be curious to know is what were the ramifications. In other words, who's fault was it and if anyone was suspended, fined or fired.

Or, is it business as usual (which is what it seems like)

[thaskalos]

Is this silence from the industry such a big surprise?

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Is this silence from the industry such a big surprise?

In some ways, yes. You would think a subsidiary of the TRA would keep a more public image for things like this, since horse racing has such a bad reputation. Say, somebody like a Melvin Purvis.

In some ways, not. Business as usual.

Since Alydar and PA have assured us that there ARE people in the industry who care, I've sent an email to the TRPB to determine if this is true.....or just more speculation.

[taxicab]

Done. (again, never heard anything about six months ago)
Wow.
They couldn't even be polite and respond to you.
Actions (or lack thereof) speaks louder than words.

[Stillriledup]

Wow.
They couldn't even be polite and respond to you.
Actions (or lack thereof) speaks louder than words.

It comes down to this. If there are no real media members pressing these people for information, they don't have to just volunteer it, they can just ignore everyone and hope you go away and don't pursue it.

If this was the stock market and not a horse racing parimutuel pool, there would be national coverage of the "Stock fraud" and who was at fault and whatnut.

This story will sit idle while fatcat journalists wolf down doughnuts and free coffee in the press boxes of America. The fatcats know who they are, they know they're not real journalists, they're fake racing journalists who don't want to rock the boat and don't want to write anything negative about the tracks they cover.

Their doughnut privileges might be suspended.

[taxicab]

It comes down to this. If there are no real media members pressing these people for information, they don't have to just volunteer it, they can just ignore everyone and hope you go away and don't pursue it.

If this was the stock market and not a horse racing parimutuel pool, there would be national coverage of the "Stock fraud" and who was at fault and whatnut.

This story will sit idle while fatcat journalists wolf down doughnuts and free coffee in the press boxes of America. The fatcats know who they are, they know they're not real journalists, they're fake racing journalists who don't want to rock the boat and don't want to write anything negative about the tracks they cover.

Their doughnut privileges might be suspended.
I'm confused SRU.
You dislike doughnuts, or the fact that overweight dudes don't have to pay for them.....

[thaskalos]

It comes down to this. If there are no real media members pressing these people for information, they don't have to just volunteer it, they can just ignore everyone and hope you go away and don't pursue it.

If this was the stock market and not a horse racing parimutuel pool, there would be national coverage of the "Stock fraud" and who was at fault and whatnut.

This story will sit idle while fatcat journalists wolf down doughnuts and free coffee in the press boxes of America. The fatcats know who they are, they know they're not real journalists, they're fake racing journalists who don't want to rock the boat and don't want to write anything negative about the tracks they cover.

Their doughnut privileges might be suspended.

Maybe these "fatcat journalists" figured that the injustice committed against the horseplayers was not worth mentioning. So the payoffs were reduced a little because of some late bets. So what? It isn't like the horseplayers were gonna take that extra money to the bank. They would have lost the money back anyway.

[Stillriledup]

I'm confused SRU.
You dislike doughnuts, or the fact that overweight dudes don't have to pay for them.....

I don't mind people getting free doughnuts but i would feel better about it if i read some hard hitting REAL journalism exposing the cheats.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

The investigation was completed and the results were shared with the tracks and racing commissions involved. It is up to them, not the TRPB, to share the results. Obviously they have chosen not to do so.

The email I sent to the TRPB late Thursday was replied to promptly by Mr. Linnell, early yesterday morning. He indicated that they were disappointed not to have been given a release by the client to disclose the results (as the TRPB is a private agency), and that it may actually have been the regulators making that call. I'm assuming he means the state's racing board of the track/tote in question.

So, if I follow PA's line of reasoning, all SRU needs to go is go to each state that has racing and file a FOIA request, and then maybe we'll finally know more details.

Mr. Linnell's response also included some comments about the TRPB's efforts to implement a more secure tote system, including a secure, centralized site that could track wagers with individual timestamps. However, no timetable is given for its adoption, but at least the problem is out on the table and "in the queue" to be dealt with....hopefully sooner rather than later.

[thaskalos]

The email I sent to the TRPB late Thursday was replied to promptly by Mr. Linnell, early yesterday morning. He indicated that they were disappointed not to have been given a release by the client to disclose the results (as the TRPB is a private agency), and that it may actually have been the regulators making that call. I'm assuming he means the state's racing board of the track/tote in question.

So, if I follow PA's line of reasoning, all SRU needs to go is go to each state that has racing and file a FOIA request, and then maybe we'll finally know more details.

Mr. Linnell's response also included some comments about the TRPB's efforts to implement a more secure tote system, including a secure, centralized site that could track wagers with individual timestamps. However, no timetable is given for its adoption, but at least the problem is out on the table and "in the queue" to be dealt with....hopefully sooner rather than later.


Well, alright then...problem solved. On to the next case... :)

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Well, alright then...problem solved. On to the next case... :)

I believe your forgot the </sarcasm> tags.... :)

The problem is probably $$$, as someone has to pay for it, and I can imagine trying to convince racetrack operators to get behind a new system, with what they perceive as a perfectly operating tote system already in place, is an uphill battle.

I've stated this before as a possible solution, and PA ridiculed it, but has not provided a more viable alternative. Have part of the takeout go to pay for a governing body/agency with enough power to implement a secure tote, drug testing, licensing and other regulatory measures to protect the integrity of the sport. The current arrangement of the mix of private companies and public commissions is obviously not doing a very good job with "self enforcement."

I would rather pay a 17.5% takeout a "OnTheUpandUp Park" (or SRU Downs) rather than a 15.5% takeout at "TrustUs" Raceway......

[Stillriledup]

I believe your forgot the </sarcasm> tags.... :)

The problem is probably $$$, as someone has to pay for it, and I can imagine trying to convince racetrack operators to get behind a new system, with what they perceive as a perfectly operating tote system already in place, is an uphill battle.

I've stated this before as a possible solution, and PA ridiculed it, but has not provided a more viable alternative. Have part of the takeout go to pay for a governing body/agency with enough power to implement a secure tote, drug testing, licensing and other regulatory measures to protect the integrity of the sport. The current arrangement of the mix of private companies and public commissions is obviously not doing a very good job with "self enforcement."

I would rather pay a 17.5% takeout a "OnTheUpandUp Park" (or SRU Downs) rather than a 15.5% takeout at "TrustUs" Raceway......

Imagine if Las Vegas was mandating -111 on both sides for the NFL, so 1 point can go to concussion research. The NFL bettors would be thrilled, you know?

The problem is that the takeout would rise and there would still be shenanigans as the criminals would be one step ahead of the people trying to stop the criminals.

[highnote]

Imagine if Las Vegas was mandating -111 on both sides for the NFL, so 1 point can go to concussion research. The NFL bettors would be thrilled, you know?

The problem is that the takeout would rise and there would still be shenanigans as the criminals would be one step ahead of the people trying to stop the criminals.


That's a good point. Thoroughbred research should come out of the purse money. Why should bettors pay for research and foot the bill for other expenses that owners should pay for? Bettors don't own the horses.

[Stillriledup]

Thoroughbred Racing Protective Bureau reports past-posting incident

http://www.drf.com/news/thoroughbred...sting-incident (http://www.drf.com/news/thoroughbred-racing-protective-bureau-reports-past-posting-incident)

Anyone have a link to more information regarding this incident? Or, are they still "investigating"?

[cj]

Anyone have a link to more information regarding this incident? Or, are they still "investigating"?

I already posted about all you are going to get on this.

[Stillriledup]

I already posted about all you are going to get on this.

Sorry I wasn't sure if I should keep holding my breath waiting for this Lindell guy to say which track past posted, this is coming up on what, 2 years now?

Swept under the rug just like everything else.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Sorry I wasn't sure if I should keep holding my breath waiting for this Lindell guy to say which track past posted, this is coming up on what, 2 years now?

Swept under the rug just like everything else.

Per the arrangement between the TRPB and the host track, it's the track that authorizes or decides whether or not to release the information. Since we're all to familiar with how most tracks operate in assuring the players of the integrity of the sport, there's no surprise the details will never be made public.

As for a portion of takeout go to policing the sport, it's the same concept Pittsburgh Phil employed to get at least one jockey to try every race. Costs more in terms of overhead, but the cleaner (and more predictable) results make up for it.

[Stillriledup]

Per the arrangement between the TRPB and the host track, it's the track that authorizes or decides whether or not to release the information. Since we're all to familiar with how most tracks operate in assuring the players of the integrity of the sport, there's no surprise the details will never be made public.

As for a portion of takeout go to policing the sport, it's the same concept Pittsburgh Phil employed to get at least one jockey to try every race. Costs more in terms of overhead, but the cleaner (and more predictable) results make up for it.

In the article link that's in the OP, it says that the identity of the track will be released once the investigation is complete.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

In the article link that's in the OP, it says that the identity of the track will be released once the investigation is complete.

I stand corrected. Maybe he was mis-quoted.... :)

Go ahead, file the Freedom of Information Act request...

[Stillriledup]

I stand corrected. Maybe he was mis-quoted.... :)

Go ahead, file the Freedom of Information Act request...

If we had real journalists in this game who wanted to dig for real news, we might have had this covered already.

[Tom]

Naw, they would all be in line digging up dirt on NYRA. :rolleyes:

[Robert Goren]

If we had real journalists in this game who wanted to dig for real news, we might have had this covered already.The game has warranted coverage by "real journalists" in over 30 years. There more people who follow the WNBA than horse racing. If it weren't for a bunch of 60+ year old gamblers and willingness of states to allow the ciphering off of slot taxes , the sport would have died off before the turn of the century. It hasn't been a month yet, but you were ask 10 people on the street who won triple crown, 9 wouldn't be able to answer.

[cj]

I've heard it was Fairplex from a few reliable sources.

It was up to the track to release the name and the track opted not to do it. The guy that said the name would be released spoke out of turn, didn't realize he needed permission I guess.

[Tom]

Is this silence from the industry such a big surprise?

The fact that there was even an investigation is jaw-dropping to me.

Bottom line, the industry has no clue who their customers are and for this , I applaud every track that closes and those that lose their jobs, TS.
Go pack groceries.

Horse racing and integrity are mutually exclusive events.