Fouts, Testaverde and Bledsoe.

[Stillriledup]

One is in the HOF, the other 2 are not.

Vinny has 3k more passing yards than Fouts and about 1,500 more than Bledsoe and yet Fouts, is the one in the HOF, the other 2 guys arent in.

[Tee]

Damn, I've already had my popcorn. Luckily I have more in the pantry.

[tucker6]

at least the HOF comittee got it right. Vinny was slightly above average and Drew was average imho.

Dan played in the era (73-87) before qb's became the be all end all in the game. The other two played in the 90's and 00's when rules were slanted toward the pass game. He completed 490 fewer passes than Vinny and 542 fewer than Drew. So only being 3,000 and 1,500 yards behind respectively given the completion numbers is actually quite good. Even though they didn't dink and dunk for garbage yards in those days, Dan still has a higher QB rating than those guys at 80.2 vs 75.0 and 77.1 respectively.

Besides all the numbers, Dan also gets in because he was THE forerunner of what the game would eventually become (pass happy). The game always rewards pioneers.

No popcorn required for this thread. Pretty easy.

[rastajenk]

Also, a lot of Vinnie's stats are enhanced because he hung around so long, but football doesn't regard longevity in the way that baseball does. Baseball has benchmark numbers that, if one achieves over a long career, make it automatic to be considered for the Hall; football understands the shorter careers involved and recognizes innovation, like tucker said, and definition, or prototypes. Most of the players considered have great numbers anyway, but it doesn't seem to have to follow the if -> then scenario laid out in the first post.

[JustRalph]

This game had to be a big part of Fouts lore that didn't hurt come voting time

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_in_Miami

never forget it.........

[Robert Goren]

QBs are judged by wins and losses.

[tucker6]

QBs are judged by wins and losses.

true to a point. However, how do you explain Archie Manning? He was judged to be a very good qb in his day on teams that were nearly winless. Stats aren't great or even good, but then again stats aren't everything.

[MutuelClerk]

Why don't we just put every player in every sport who played in NYC in the HOF? It will make things easier in the long run.

[Rookies]

This game had to be a big part of Fouts lore that didn't hurt come voting time

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_in_Miami

never forget it.........

1000% Ralphie. :ThmbUp:

The players were dazed and stumbling after that one. Yesterday's Broncos- Cowgirls ranks next to it, btw.

[Marshall Bennett]

QBs are judged by wins and losses.
They're also judged by which era they played in. Fouts was one of the first to truly open up the passing game in the NFL. Fouts belongs in the hall as does Unitas, who's passing numbers in today's game would be dismal.

[Robert Goren]

They're also judged by which era they played in. Fouts was one of the first to truly open up the passing game in the NFL. Fouts belongs in the hall as does Unitas, who's passing numbers in today's game would be dismal. Both Fouts and Unitas passed the eye test. Sometime you know greatness when you see it.

[Stillriledup]

Damn, I've already had my popcorn. Luckily I have more in the pantry.

I've been on PA's case to add a "popcorn eating guy" to the emoticon list, to no avail. Ahhh, sigh, maybe one day. :D

[Stillriledup]

QBs are judged by wins and losses.

Felix the King Hernandez won a Cy Young recently with a 13-12 record. He was judged on his ERA and other advanced stats, the voters were able to look past his team's failures.

Are you saying that if a QB is great but ends up playing for a bad organization his entire career, that he doesnt deserve the HOF?

[Stillriledup]

at least the HOF comittee got it right. Vinny was slightly above average and Drew was average imho.

Dan played in the era (73-87) before qb's became the be all end all in the game. The other two played in the 90's and 00's when rules were slanted toward the pass game. He completed 490 fewer passes than Vinny and 542 fewer than Drew. So only being 3,000 and 1,500 yards behind respectively given the completion numbers is actually quite good. Even though they didn't dink and dunk for garbage yards in those days, Dan still has a higher QB rating than those guys at 80.2 vs 75.0 and 77.1 respectively.

Besides all the numbers, Dan also gets in because he was THE forerunner of what the game would eventually become (pass happy). The game always rewards pioneers.

No popcorn required for this thread. Pretty easy.

You have to also factor in that Fouts played in a warm weather locale, with a coach who "reinvented" the passing game, same thing happened to Montana, both those guys were beneficiaries of some innovating thinking, Tom Brady's success is largely borne from Belichick being Belichick....we saw that Bill was able to make Matt Cassell into a "great' QB for one season, Belichick has also proven that he can plug "joe blow" into any position on the field and that guy can become a household name overnight, he turned Danny Woodhead into a star, a player that the Jets didnt even keep on their roster (yes, i watched Hard Knocks) and the beat goes on and on.

Fouts was a product of having amazing receivers, warm weather, etc. Bledsoe played a lot of games in cold weather and so did Testaverde, you give those guys "game changers" like Air Coryell in warm weather and i betcha they would have many more passing yards, many more wins and a much better QB rating.

[Robert Goren]

You have to also factor in that Fouts played in a warm weather locale, with a coach who "reinvented" the passing game, same thing happened to Montana, both those guys were beneficiaries of some innovating thinking, Tom Brady's success is largely borne from Belichick being Belichick....we saw that Bill was able to make Matt Cassell into a "great' QB for one season, Belichick has also proven that he can plug "joe blow" into any position on the field and that guy can become a household name overnight, he turned Danny Woodhead into a star, a player that the Jets didnt even keep on their roster (yes, i watched Hard Knocks) and the beat goes on and on.

Fouts was a product of having amazing receivers, warm weather, etc. Bledsoe played a lot of games in cold weather and so did Testaverde, you give those guys "game changers" like Air Coryell in warm weather and i betcha they would have many more passing yards, many more wins and a much better QB rating.More yards, yes. More wins, maybe. HOF, I doubt it. Vinny would still be Vinny.

[Stillriledup]

More yards, yes. More wins, maybe. HOF, I doubt it. Vinny would still be Vinny.

A lot of "vinny being Vinny" stems from him playing for bad teams under bad coaches. Its all context.

[Marshall Bennett]

Are you saying that if a QB is great but ends up playing for a bad organization his entire career, that he doesnt deserve the HOF?
Archie Manning immediately comes to mind. Never was greatness so rudely wasted in the NFL.

[Marshall Bennett]

A lot of "vinny being Vinny" stems from him playing for bad teams under bad coaches. Its all context.
His best chance may have been with the Jets, unfortunately his best days were behind him.

[Stillriledup]

His best chance may have been with the Jets, unfortunately his best days were behind him.

Vinny and the Jets. :ThmbUp:

[TJDave]

Besides all the numbers, Dan also gets in because he was THE forerunner of what the game would eventually become (pass happy). The game always rewards pioneers.


And that's because of Sid Gillman.

[Robert Goren]

A lot of "vinny being Vinny" stems from him playing for bad teams under bad coaches. Its all context.I believe Belichick had him in Cleveland.

[Stillriledup]

I believe Belichick had him in Cleveland.

But Belichick wasnt Belichick in Cleveland, he was just another guy at that point.

[cj]

Archie Manning immediately comes to mind. Never was greatness so rudely wasted in the NFL.

I think his "greatness" is a myth. He was pretty good, but I don't see great.

[Stillriledup]

I think his "greatness" is a myth. He was pretty good, but I don't see great.

There's a lot of "myths" out there....that's why we have statistics. Stats don't lie.

[cj]

There's a lot of "myths" out there....that's why we have statistics. Stats don't lie.

Sure they do, lots of times. I watched Manning play, I don't need stats.

[pandy]

I liked Vinny but he was definitely not a HOF QB. Fouts was a great passer. Bledsoe was a great passer but when he was in his prime he played for the Patriots before they got Belichick and therefore they weren't that good and that hurt his career. Then when they finally got good he got hurt and was replaced by Brady. Some of you may remember that Brady got hurt in the Playoffs, Bledsoe came off the injured list and played a game in the playoffs and was brilliant, but Belichick went back to Brady in the next playoff game anyway and the rest is history.

[Stillriledup]

Sure they do, lots of times. I watched Manning play, I don't need stats.

Right, this from a guy making money selling stats. :D

[pandy]

Sure they do, lots of times. I watched Manning play, I don't need stats.


I agree that stats can be misleading. For instance, the QBs that I like the most are not always the guys with the top QB rating or even the most yards. Brady, for example, is a great player but his stats are helped by many things including the exceptional pass protection he's received in his career and quite possibly the best coaching staff in NFL history. But when I see a team that can put a pass rush on Brady, all of a sudden he's not very good. So, I use my eyes and look for quarterbacks that can consistently complete passes in key third down situations despite being under pressure. Guys who can complete passes while they're about to get sacked and then get hit as soon as the ball is released, but still throw a good pass. I can think of many QBs who were able to do this consistently well, Marino, Namath, Peyton and Ellie Manning, Joe Montana, John Elway, Roger Staubach are a few that come to mind. These guys could beat you even if you put on a strong pass rush.

[Robert Goren]

There's a lot of "myths" out there....that's why we have statistics. Stats don't lie.And you bet horses!?:rolleyes:

[cj]

Right, this from a guy making money selling stats. :D

Really? What stats do I sell?