Keeneland...what's your approach?

[PoloUK6108]

My favorite meeting of the year, Fall at Keeneland is nearly upon us. A frequent visitor, I usually wind up in the red by days end. Have had a few solid winners there, but like any horseplayer I'm always trying to find the best angle for the track. So in anticipation of what is sure to be a spectacular meet, let's talk on our different approaches to playing this challenging venue.

Me, I enjoy the maiden and turf routes. I often let connections influence me when making my selections more than they normally would at another track, bc given the exclusive meet, strong connections seem to bring their A game. Love playing their all stakes pick 4 as well. There's no better place to enjoy the races if you ask this guy. :ThmbUp:

[thaskalos]

I haven't made a serious wager at Keeneland in recent memory.

[Pensacola Pete]

Trainer's track, usually track biases, too.

[Dave Schwartz]

I haven't made a serious wager at Keeneland in recent memory.

I agree.

For me, it is the least predictable track in the country.

I PASS.

[lamboguy]

i think its the easiest track in America to handicap. if you know how to look at the horses on the track, you can usually eliminate half the field just by seeing how the horse is carrying over the surface. if you are paying attention to the bias you can now eliminate the other half of the race because the track bias is not in his favor that day. lots of times you are eliminating short priced horses that have good numbers and form.

[jeebus1083]

I agree.

For me, it is the least predictable track in the country.

I PASS.

Maybe I am misunderstanding the point, but wouldn't the degree of predictability generally (I won't say always, because I see indecipherable horses pay on the cheap) correlate with the degree of parimutuel payout? I understand that as handicappers, we want to see at least a measure of predictability within a race so that we can have an understanding of the horses and the race - and consequently use that knowledge to assess whether or not there is wagering value. I would have to believe that with Keeneland, you are dealing with several intangibles that are not present at other major meets (or even circuits), but the handicapper that can somehow use some of those intangibles to his/her advantage is more likely to hold an advantage over the player next to him/her.

[Pensacola Pete]

i think its the easiest track in America to handicap. if you know how to look at the horses on the track, you can usually eliminate half the field just by seeing how the horse is carrying over the surface. if you are paying attention to the bias you can now eliminate the other half of the race because the track bias is not in his favor that day. lots of times you are eliminating short priced horses that have good numbers and form.

If you eliminate both halves of the race, there's nobody left to bet!

[lamboguy]

If you eliminate both halves of the race, there's nobody left to bet!
i meant to say out of the remaining horses. my brain is wobbled already today.

keeneland is so easy to win money at, its just a question of how much you want to pick up

[Stillriledup]

i meant to say out of the remaining horses. my brain is wobbled already today.

keeneland is so easy to win money at, its just a question of how much you want to pick up

I agree, There is tremendous value at Keeneland, but it requires paying attention to biases, betting against overbet Ramsey runners, betting against overbet horses who look good on paper but have no experience on Poly, etc.

[lamboguy]

I agree, There is tremendous value at Keeneland, but it requires paying attention to biases, betting against overbet Ramsey runners, betting against overbet horses who look good on paper but have no experience on Poly, etc.who says that the Ramsey horses are overbet. with the work they do on their horses, they is plenty of value with some of them. if you know when their horses get treated with the MAGNAWAVE, you will see big improvements from their last race. that's how he has been winning all year.

[wisconsin]

Spray and pray. I hate the poly there, don't have the best success and don't bet it too often anymore.

[JustRalph]

Same as others. Rarely touch it anymore. Turf course sometimes.

Used to travel and spend a few days there. Great time. Not anymore.

I miss my buddies there, but I just can't support that track, as much as I love it I can't justify the travel.

[Stillriledup]

Here's a couple horses to maybe keep an eye on for opening day.

Prof Midnight (5th race).

I love Midnight Lute offspring on Poly, Midnight Lute loved the Poly even though he's basically known as a closing sprinter on dirt. Giving this one a shot, 2 lines down he was buried at the Spa with no shot behind a ridiculous pace, he's ready to roll here.

Prado Cat (7th)
Like this guy's look, he's a great looking horse with a long gait and a lot of power, his PPs don't look that special, but i like him getting an outside post, i like him sitting back and making one run here. He was a good 3rd vs a strong group on Travers day, i liked what i saw in that race, hopefully he will be some value here.

[rrpic6]

Presque Isle Downs shippers in the cheaper claiming races often outrun their odds. Wayne Rice/Arienne Cox usually pop with a bomb or two.

RR

[Dave Schwartz]

Maybe I am misunderstanding the point, but wouldn't the degree of predictability generally (I won't say always, because I see indecipherable horses pay on the cheap) correlate with the degree of parimutuel payout? I understand that as handicappers, we want to see at least a measure of predictability within a race so that we can have an understanding of the horses and the race - and consequently use that knowledge to assess whether or not there is wagering value. I would have to believe that with Keeneland, you are dealing with several intangibles that are not present at other major meets (or even circuits), but the handicapper that can somehow use some of those intangibles to his/her advantage is more likely to hold an advantage over the player next to him/her.

I did not say that it was not predictable for ANYONE. I said it was not predictable FOR ME.

For two decades my speed ratings and par times (even before poly) made no sense at Keeneland.

Therefore, I do not play.

[lamboguy]

Here's a couple horses to maybe keep an eye on for opening day.

Prof Midnight (5th race).

I love Midnight Lute offspring on Poly, Midnight Lute loved the Poly even though he's basically known as a closing sprinter on dirt. Giving this one a shot, 2 lines down he was buried at the Spa with no shot behind a ridiculous pace, he's ready to roll here.

Prado Cat (7th)
Like this guy's look, he's a great looking horse with a long gait and a lot of power, his PPs don't look that special, but i like him getting an outside post, i like him sitting back and making one run here. He was a good 3rd vs a strong group on Travers day, i liked what i saw in that race, hopefully he will be some value here.
in the 5th race, Dorochenko horse is not as bad as he looks.

[Tom]

Dirt or poly, I have zero use for Keeneland.
Beautiful track, but like a barroom vixen, only after my money.
PASS.

I don't even watch any races from KEE - could not care less what happens there.

My theory, it is built on top of a hillbilly cemetery and is cursed.

[therussmeister]

in the 5th race, Dorochenko horse is not as bad as he looks.
Dorochenko's horses are always either not as bad as they look, or not as good as they look.

[jeebus1083]

I did not say that it was not predictable for ANYONE. I said it was not predictable FOR ME.

For two decades my speed ratings and par times (even before poly) made no sense at Keeneland.

Therefore, I do not play.

Gotcha. Trust in one's tools is important. Knowing a program or method's strengths and limitations is also important. You win the battle right there.

[raybo]

Good average payouts at Keeneland which makes it a prime track for me. I will use a combination of my Class and PFV rankings for the upcoming meet. The meet is so short that there isn't enough time to create a recent track database for that short meet so I'll use methods that don't require the database.

[DeanT]

Too tired to post the whole thing on the HANA board, but tonight the Monthly has Keeneland stats from Platt, compiled only from the last three fall meets. All spring meets were exlcuded

Some interesting post, shipper and trainer stats (for the love of Pete we cant bet Mountaineer shippers lol).

It's six pages of stats near the end.

http://www.horseplayersassociation.org/hanamonthly.html

Im personally looking forward to the meet. Good luck.

[BlueShoe]

My approach, like many othere here, is to leave it alone. Horses coming from several different tracks and surfaces. Previous success on the Kee poly no guarantee today. Short meet with most horses making only one start and not racing back before the end of the meeting. Baffling plastic surface that makes predicting pace scenarios and race shapes difficult. Guess that the players that like this meeting are much better handicappers than I am, just cannot get a hold of it. Same goes for the Kee spring meeting as well. If a serious wager is made, it is on a turf route, not the plastic main track.

[magwell]

I zero in on the turf races, and lean to horses that have run good on the Keeneland turf course before, as that turf course is like no other, lot of horses don't get a hold of it like they do at other tracks.......:cool:

[Valuist]

Presque Isle Downs shippers in the cheaper claiming races often outrun their odds. Wayne Rice/Arienne Cox usually pop with a bomb or two.

RR

Definitely agree on the PID runners.

[menifee]

I always look for turf horses that have run two turns turning back to one turn on the Poly (usually 7 furlongs). They seem to do very well and you can usually catch a price.

[Robert Fischer]

My favorite meeting of the year, Fall at Keeneland is nearly upon us. A frequent visitor, I usually wind up in the red by days end. Have had a few solid winners there, but like any horseplayer I'm always trying to find the best angle for the track. So in anticipation of what is sure to be a spectacular meet, let's talk on our different approaches to playing this challenging venue.

Me, I enjoy the maiden and turf routes. I often let connections influence me when making my selections more than they normally would at another track, bc given the exclusive meet, strong connections seem to bring their A game. Love playing their all stakes pick 4 as well. There's no better place to enjoy the races if you ask this guy. :ThmbUp:

A few favorites where I am extremely confident that they will lose.
A few price horses where I am extremely confident that they will contend.
The above 2 scenarios generally offer a variety of wager menu options.
The meet seems to fly by and a few of these scores make or break your meet.
Lots of patience as the above scenarios are rare, although the reason I mention them is that Keeneland can sometimes feature those plays.
Keeneland also offers a rich opportunity for future value, if your horse didn't have things his way today.

[duncan04]

Ugh people still complaining about synthetic surfaces??? :bang: :bang: :ThmbDown:

[jahura2]

My home track although I rarely play it seriously any more. I bet far more money on the NYRA tracks then here at home. Use to go every day but with the onset of ADW that has long since stopped. Too expensive and too many drunk college kids, you cant move there on Saturdays, the best days to fo are Wed, Thurs and Sunday. I Still go 5-6 times per meet just to hang with old cronies.
There is still value at Keeneland especially in their turf races. Never bet 2 yr olds in the spring but 2 yr olds maidens in the fall usually provide some value.
There are always overbets on jockeys, the crowd is inexperienced. I have made some decent cashes over the years betting against Don Brumfield, Pat Day and Leparoux horses that were overbets. Though I think Day had probably got the better of me over the years. That being said good riders do dominate here.
Presque Isle runners in cheaper races always need to be considered. It will be interesting to see how the Churchill runners fare here coming off the new September meet. I suspect they will be a force to reckon with. NYRA runners still seem to me to be the best of the shippers, and surprisingly there are not that many Arlington winners considering they run on the same type of track. Of course speed and early pace have always been the biggest factor except for the first 2 meets on the poly. Turf to poly and visa versa are huge factors. Keep an eye on the blue blood owners they especially love to win here, it puts a feather in their cap and reminds them of long lost glory days. All the history aside if you are patient you can usually find some nice spot plays throughout the meet, Pik 3's, and exactas are usualy what i play and generally they are not overbet. I wish anyone on PA that bets Keeneland a great and profitable meet!

[DeanT]

Definitely agree on the PID runners.

We heard the past few years this to be true and I think it is; most of them race well and are worth watching.

From the Handicapping Monthly link above, all shippers are listed for the last three fall meets and I found some interesting.

PID - 0.94 ROI which is pretty good, with a good win percentage.
HOO 1.09 ROI, with only a win percentage of 9%. Frankly, I used to be skeptical of these shippers. I wont now.
CD shippers are positive ROI, which I think we'd expect.
MNR shippers? 3 for 85, ugh.

[Al Gobbi]

We heard the past few years this to be true and I think it is; most of them race well and are worth watching.

From the Handicapping Monthly link above, all shippers are listed for the last three fall meets and I found some interesting.

PID - 0.94 ROI which is pretty good, with a good win percentage.
HOO 1.09 ROI, with only a win percentage of 9%. Frankly, I used to be skeptical of these shippers. I wont now.
CD shippers are positive ROI, which I think we'd expect.
MNR shippers? 3 for 85, ugh.

Hoosier doesn't run thoroughbreds anymore. The Mountaineer stats are very disappointing considering several $5-$7.5k claimers are run at this meet.

[DeanT]

Hoosier doesn't run thoroughbreds anymore.

LOL. I get caught up in three letters too often I guess :)

Seriously, I have bet several MNR horses that look like they'll pop over the years. The only thing they've been popping is my bankroll.

As Raybob said above with class, if you go through all the shipping stats, you'll notice lesser tracks cant get the job done.

RD 0 for 16, MNR poor, Ellis Park poor, Calder poor, DMR okay, SAR ok, NYRA in general ok, CD ok, etc.

The only outlier is PID, but with their purses, maybe it is not that big of a step up in class.

Might as well link the list we're talking about again. http://www.horseplayersassociation.org/hanamonthly.html

[lamboguy]

interesting to see how Thistledowns shippers might do this meet. the quality of races there has gone up a little and they do have the best surface to train over in North America. there has always been a few trainer's that have horses in different places that bring their horses to Thistle, just to work over the surface there.

[PoloUK6108]

Great speculation! I see I'm not the only one who's often puzzled by the "promise land" of racing. Personally I wish they could go back to dirt, but that'll never happen. No place has taken more of my money, yet there's no place I'd rather be! Maybe it's all the eye candy ;)

[Maximillion]

interesting to see how Thistledowns shippers might do this meet. the quality of races there has gone up a little and they do have the best surface to train over in North America. there has always been a few trainer's that have horses in different places that bring their horses to Thistle, just to work over the surface there.

Do some Thistledowns barns ship to Kee? (dont play there)

Not to go off topic....but I would be curious to see the roi of Thistledowns shippers this year.(Mountaineer immediately comes to mind)

[NJ Stinks]

I'm another who won't spend money travelling to Keeneland anymore. Even if the place is a shrine to the horse.

My biggest peeve now that I'm stuck with the polytrack is this: Why can't Keeneland run half the card on grass? What the hell are they saving the turf course for?

Opening day is unbelievable. One turf race scheduled on the entire card! :mad: Hell, even if it does rain, 90% won't scratch if the race is taken off the turf.

And, by the way, have you noticed how quickly KEE yanks races off the grass nowadays? I swear they use to brag about how well the turf course absorbed water! :rolleyes:

[Dave Schwartz]

I am not convinced it is the track. If it was, I would assume that I would do poorly on the other poly tracks. (I don't.)

I am also not convinced that it is the nature of it being a "boutique" meet. If it was, I would not do so well at Saratoga.

Truthfully, I have never understood why my numbers don't seem to stand up there.

[olddaddy]

I'm another who won't spend money travelling to Keeneland anymore. Even if the place is a shrine to the horse.

My biggest peeve now that I'm stuck with the polytrack is this: Why can't Keeneland run half the card on grass? What the hell are they saving the turf course for?

Opening day is unbelievable. One turf race scheduled on the entire card! :mad: Hell, even if it does rain, 90% won't scratch if the race is taken off the turf.

And, by the way, have you noticed how quickly KEE yanks races off the grass nowadays? I swear they use to brag about how well the turf course absorbed water! :rolleyes:


Friday only has one grass race in order to keep the grass course pristine for the fall meets biggest grass stakes day, which is Saturday.

[thespaah]

Ugh people still complaining about synthetic surfaces??? :bang: :bang: :ThmbDown:
They are not complaining about the surface. They are pointing out they are not successful betting at tracks that have them..
If you are offended by the opinions of others, you do have the choice to not read posts on here.
Idea?

[rastajenk]

interesting to see how Thistledowns shippers might do this meet. the quality of races there has gone up a little and they do have the best surface to train over in North America. there has always been a few trainer's that have horses in different places that bring their horses to Thistle, just to work over the surface there.
Tim Hamm is the only one I've seen in the entries this weekend that might go Thistle to Keene. I would expect more Presque Isle or Mountaineer shippers from other trainers that might be live over this suggestion.

[PoloUK6108]

I am not convinced it is the track. If it was, I would assume that I would do poorly on the other poly tracks. (I don't.)

I am also not convinced that it is the nature of it being a "boutique" meet. If it was, I would not do so well at Saratoga.

Truthfully, I have never understood why my numbers don't seem to stand up there.

I like to think of Keeneland to Horse Racing as Augusta National is to golf..There are venues competitive with it, but none quite like it. The unexplainable seems to happen there more often than anywhere else.

Also, it SEEMS (to me, at least) to be that horses that have been successful at KEE are usually successful elsewhere, even though horses that have been successful elsewhere often aren't successful at KEE.

Hallowed ground :cool:

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Hallowed ground indeed, not haunted ground as Tom states. The most beautiful venue in the game, though the handicapping is tough. I find Keeneland's fall meet to be a fine tune up to the Breeder's Cup, where connections and class have to be weighted more than at other meets.

Also, like Saratoga, I simply demand higher odds on my plays, as I know my strike rate will be lower, and I have to be patient. If I cash one race per day, I break even or make a little - two races, and I'm firmly in the black.

I lived in Lexington for two years, and I have to say I preferred no track announcer as well which changed the last meet I was there, though sometimes the starts would catch me by surprise and I'd get shut out. Not a big fan of Plastic-Trak in general, but in the case of Keeneland it's not any worse than that concrete dirt strip it replaced.... :)

[lamboguy]

Tim Hamm is the only one I've seen in the entries this weekend that might go Thistle to Keene. I would expect more Presque Isle or Mountaineer shippers from other trainers that might be live over this suggestion.i know of a trainer that works over the surface there and will have a horse in the stake race saturday, STORM OF THE CENTURY, that horse is probably going to be the favorite in that stake race too.

[teddy]

when keeneland was dirt the inside bias gave me a $27000 pick 4. Since the switch it's been nothing but a place to look at college chicks and eat. If you master it you are a genius. Crazy world. I do great at mtn and so cal. But keeneland and NY tracks are never winning days. Can we have dirt back. I'm sick of poly.

[JustRalph]

when keeneland was dirt the inside bias gave me a $27000 pick 4. Since the switch it's been nothing but a place to look at college chicks and eat. If you master it you are a genius. Crazy world. I do great at mtn and so cal. But keeneland and NY tracks are never winning days. Can we have dirt back. I'm sick of poly.

The weird part for me is that it's not just the poly.......it's the Keeneland poly.

Turfway, Woodbine, Hollywood......no problems. I also believe the riders ride the Kee poly different.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Not sure if the track announcer showed up today, but no audio on Twinspires or Xpressbet. Meet opens with a 19-1 shot.

[TheEdge07]

in the 5th race, Dorochenko horse is not as bad as he looks.


SHAZAMMMMMMM on the cutback..

Dorochenko wins the 1st 19/1

[Genjoi]

yeah a dorenchenko 19-1 longshot that I didn't see coming but after a second look noticed the horse had a decent work over the track.

[lamboguy]

Dorochenko not interested in short priced horses, he gets them to run at big prices.

[rrpic6]

$1 Tri box :8:,:6:,:10:, pays almost 4K. The three horses dropping from Maiden Special Weight to Maiden Claiming, including a Presque Isle Downs shipper!

RR

[rrpic6]

PID shipper wins, pays $23.20, keys 10cent super over $3200. My ticket leaves out #9.:bang:

KEE (http://www.twinspires.com/cgi-bin/results_tracks.cgi?track=KEE&race=2&type=1) #2 (http://www.twinspires.com/cgi-bin/results_tracks.cgi?track=KEE&race=2&type=1) $0.10 Superfecta 2,3,4,5,6,10,​WT,2,3,4,5,6,10,​WT,2,3,4,5,6,10,11, ​WT,2,3,4,5,6,10,11 none $ 60.00 $ 0.00 - $ 60.00
RR

[rubicon55]

Presque Isle Downs shippers in the cheaper claiming races often outrun their odds. Wayne Rice/Arienne Cox usually pop with a bomb or two.

RR
Thanks for the advice on PID shippers, KEE 2nd with Scott Spieth, cha ching!

[Stillriledup]

PID shipper wins, pays $23.20, keys 10cent super over $3200. My ticket leaves out #9.:bang:

KEE (http://www.twinspires.com/cgi-bin/results_tracks.cgi?track=KEE&race=2&type=1) #2 (http://www.twinspires.com/cgi-bin/results_tracks.cgi?track=KEE&race=2&type=1) $0.10 Superfecta 2,3,4,5,6,10,​WT,2,3,4,5,6,10,​WT,2,3,4,5,6,10,11, ​WT,2,3,4,5,6,10,11 none $ 60.00 $ 0.00 - $ 60.00
RR

Someone on TVG gave out the 9 horse as a "live longshot". Maybe it was Todd who was just echoing what a random fan told him, but he did mention that horse.

[lamboguy]

Ramsey horse got magnawaved, got to like TOP TIER LASS

[Genjoi]

It was paul lo duca that said a fan came to him and said the 9 was a live longshot in the 2nd.

[JimG]

Qualify your contenders and insist on value. Not much different from how I approach other tracks. I like full fields (more so turf than dirt/poly) so Keeneland is a meet that I normally handicap. I think it is a hard track for those that key or bet only 1 horse per race but is a good track for those with 3-4 contenders and are looking for price. I used to joke that it (and a few other tracks were like one a day vitamins) One winner keeps you well for the day.

Jim

[TheEdge07]

Bet the cutbacks boys... been happening for years at Keendland 2 today 1st and 4th.

[Stillriledup]

It was paul lo duca that said a fan came to him and said the 9 was a live longshot in the 2nd.

Thanks, i knew i heard the 9 being touted.

[thespaah]

For any one making a case to stay clear of Keeneland...
Today's favorites...
ONE winner....
Four others in the money...

[thespaah]

I like to think of Keeneland to Horse Racing as Augusta National is to golf..There are venues competitive with it, but none quite like it. The unexplainable seems to happen there more often than anywhere else.

Also, it SEEMS (to me, at least) to be that horses that have been successful at KEE are usually successful elsewhere, even though horses that have been successful elsewhere often aren't successful at KEE.

Hallowed ground :cool:
The first time I walked into Keeneland, my first thought "first class operation"..
Not a blade of grass out of place. Everything was clean, neat and well kept. Nary a speck of peeled paint.
The workers just as pleasant and polite as can be.
Keeneland is indeed a special place.

[Tom]

PID shipper wins, pays $23.20, keys 10cent super over $3200. My ticket leaves out #9.:bang:

KEE (http://www.twinspires.com/cgi-bin/results_tracks.cgi?track=KEE&race=2&type=1) #2 (http://www.twinspires.com/cgi-bin/results_tracks.cgi?track=KEE&race=2&type=1) $0.10 Superfecta 2,3,4,5,6,10,​WT,2,3,4,5,6,10,​WT,2,3,4,5,6,10,11, ​WT,2,3,4,5,6,10,11 none $ 60.00 $ 0.00 - $ 60.00
RR


PID today

11 3-0-0 27%

Bet $22.00 Return $30.20 1.37 roi

[SandyW]

Ugh people still complaining about synthetic surfaces??? :bang: :bang: :ThmbDown:

Complaining got rid of poly garbage at Santa Anita.:jump::jump:

[Stillriledup]

Complaining got rid of poly garbage at Santa Anita.:jump::jump:

There ya go! :ThmbUp:

[cj]

There ya go! :ThmbUp:

As a bettor, I don't really care what they run on. But remember the days when Keeneland main track stakes winners mattered going forward? The only time they seem to matter now is if they are moved to turf.

[Stillriledup]

As a bettor, I don't really care what they run on. But remember the days when Keeneland main track stakes winners mattered going forward? The only time they seem to matter now is if they are moved to turf.

Totally. Same with Del Mar....they essentially rendered their "historic" races meaningless. People are going to talk about Cigar losing at Del Mar, because it was on Dirt, they'll talk about Candy Ride too....but, not too many people are wax poetic about Richard's Kid.

It hurts the history of the sport no doubt, hopefully the Breeders Cup won't run at DMR unless they change back to dirt, but i won't be holding my breath.

[raybo]

As a bettor, I don't really care what they run on. But remember the days when Keeneland main track stakes winners mattered going forward? The only time they seem to matter now is if they are moved to turf.

I don't really care about the surfaces either, I test the tracks and play what works. If nothing seems to work well at a particular track, I don't play it.

[rrpic6]

PID today

11 3-0-0 27%

Bet $22.00 Return $30.20 1.37 roi

Actually 12 horses that last ran at PID ran at Keeneland on opening day. 3 won, 1 was 2nd, 1 was 3rd. Not too shabby.
http://www1.drf.com/drfPDFChartRacesIndexAction.do?TRK=KEE&CTY=USA&DATE=20131004&RN=99

RR

[PoloUK6108]

Totally. Same with Del Mar....they essentially rendered their "historic" races meaningless. People are going to talk about Cigar losing at Del Mar, because it was on Dirt, they'll talk about Candy Ride too....but, not too many people are wax poetic about Richard's Kid.

It hurts the history of the sport no doubt, hopefully the Breeders Cup won't run at DMR unless they change back to dirt, but i won't be holding my breath.

If Del Mar gets a BC then I sure hope Keeneland gets one as well...can you imagine a Keeneland BC!?!? :faint:

[rastajenk]

Long overdue.

[ezpace]

i try to pay attention
and use RAW #'s
that are based on a totally
different SCALE THAN ANY
POSTED ON PA
FOR TURF ONLY
no poly for me.

[BlueShoe]

I lived in Lexington for two years, and I have to say I preferred no track announcer as well which changed the last meet I was there, though sometimes the starts would catch me by surprise and I'd get shut out.
Rather contrary opinion? Kurt Becker is quite popular, and in my case, consider him very good, among the top 4 or 5 race callers in the nation.

[thespaah]

If Del Mar gets a BC then I sure hope Keeneland gets one as well...can you imagine a Keeneland BC!?!? :faint:
The BC is hooked on Santa Anita.
They will give it Churchill once in a blue moon.

[rrpic6]

Race 10 Keeneland Fri Oct. 18: What do :1: One Wild Kitty, :7: Glamour Galore, :9: I'Am Toorific, and :11: Safe Word, have in common? If you said that their last race came at PID you are correct! BTW, they ran 1st,2nd,3rd and 4th!:jump:

RR

[PoloUK6108]

The BC is hooked on Santa Anita.
They will give it Churchill once in a blue moon.

That blue moon needs to come back around next time they make a decision. Churchill is so much more well known, they have lighting, they're about to have the largest HD screen in the world. Can't keep a worlds championship in America at one venue with all of the great ones that there are. It should at the very least go Churchill every other year w/ SA. SA is so overrated. If it's only going to be there then it should go international. Breeders Cup at Ascot, Meydan, Woodbine, Sha Tin etc.

[rrpic6]

Presque Isle Downs shippers in the cheaper claiming races often outrun their odds. Wayne Rice/Arienne Cox usually pop with a bomb or two.

RR

BINGO!:jump: Race 9 Oct. 23rd. 19-1

RR