Tea Party finishes off what the Taliban couldn't do.

[Capper Al]

Twin Towers wasn't primarily about destroying the buildings or killing people. The goal for the Taliban was to disrupt the American financial system and, hopefully, send it into a tail spin. Now the Tea Party is focused on the same goal to bring down the house.

For the Taliban, it would be more cost effective to follow suit by financially supporting the Tea Party than to plan their own terror attacks. What the Koch brothers have done is shown the Taliban the way. The Taliban won't lose any of their followers in battle or suicide and, better yet, it's perfectly legal to work with lobbyist and pay for primary and/or election ads. And the Supreme Court has also cleared way by taken off all the regulations for campaign donations. The Koch brothers have opened the gates to Ali. The minions will follow.

[Tom]

What a sick person you are.

[Capper Al]

What a sick person you are.

Let me get this right. Those who are willing to bring down the financial system are the healthy ones?

[ElKabong]

Let me get this right.

That would be a first for you. Alas, it was not to be

[ArlJim78]

holy cow Capper Al, you may have inhaled a bit too deeply, if not I'd recommend a vacation.

[Clocker]

holy cow Capper Al, you may have inhaled a bit too deeply, if not I'd recommend a vacation.

There are no vacations for the Choom Gang. Trying to make the Choomer in Chief look competent is a full time, but hopeless, job.

[Clocker]

The Koch brothers have opened the gates to Ali. The minions will follow.

Ben Bernanke is a Koch brother? Who knew! :eek:

[fast4522]

At some point an honest leveling of both sides for what is good for the country will happen, racing toward 25 Trillion in national debt will not be acceptable to the country people aside. Yes they are not one in the same, there is a huge difference in what is good for the country and what is good for the people.
Those who could care less of our national sovereignty do not deserve to be here. Those who love this country realize there are limitations we all will have to accept in order to maintain a healthy national sovereignty and not letting China own more of the country than we do.

[hcap]

You should play tuba in a marching band and carry a soapbox with you so whenever you post you can strike up the band and preach/perch on the box

[fast4522]

Worry more about your posts and your box (probably cheep cardboard), today's young owe you little. At some point your posts will roll off, then it will be time to strike up the band.

[hcap]

Lame comeback. As usual

[lamboguy]

Gerald alway's speaks the truth

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2013/9/28_Gerald_Celente.html

[JustRalph]

I thought the sequester was going to bring down the "economic system"

you can't have it both ways

[Tom]

You know what the sequester was?
You owe $500 more a week than you make, so on payday, after buying a round at the local bar, you pocket the change instead leaving it for a tip.

Last time we shut down the gov, the repubs kept the House and picked two senate seats. Clinton did win, but not because of that- Perot was the ONLY reason Clinton won.

As with everything else that comes from the left, it is a flat out lie the repubs will suffer if it shuts down.

A bill has been passed that keeps the gov up, pays the military. If the gov goes down it is 100% the fault of the dems who are not even at work with under 35 hours to go. Like those that vote for them, the Senate dems are sloths.

[fast4522]

If the government shuts down for a prolonged period of time this guy will wearing his bitch slippers.

[Clocker]

Like those that vote for them, the Senate dems are sloths.

It's the new normal. Harry Reid liked the ObamaCare 28 hour work week so much, he adopted it for the Senate.

[TJDave]

For the Taliban, it would be more cost effective to follow suit by financially supporting the Tea Party than to plan their own terror attacks. What the Koch brothers have done is shown the Taliban the way. The Taliban won't lose any of their followers in battle or suicide and, better yet, it's perfectly legal to work with lobbyist and pay for primary and/or election ads. And the Supreme Court has also cleared way by taken off all the regulations for campaign donations. The Koch brothers have opened the gates to Ali. The minions will follow.

There's a big hole in your theory:

That Tea partiers would be dumb enough to buy into that. ;)

[Capper Al]

Twin Towers wasn't primarily about destroying the buildings or killing people. The goal for the Taliban was to disrupt the American financial system and, hopefully, send it into a tail spin. Now the Tea Party is focused on the same goal to bring down the house.

For the Taliban, it would be more cost effective to follow suit by financially supporting the Tea Party than to plan their own terror attacks. What the Koch brothers have done is shown the Taliban the way. The Taliban won't lose any of their followers in battle or suicide and, better yet, it's perfectly legal to work with lobbyist and pay for primary and/or election ads. And the Supreme Court has also cleared way by taken off all the regulations for campaign donations. The Koch brothers have opened the gates to Ali. The minions will follow.

I am looking at actions here not words or ideas or name calling. In the end both the Taliban and the Tea Party have the same goal. Actions speak loader than words.

[Tom]

And the voices in your empty head echo louder than anything.

[dkithore]

I am looking at actions here not words or ideas or name calling. In the end both the Taliban and the Tea Party have the same goal. Actions speak loader than words.
Generally I stay out of this Tea party = Taliban type of comparisions and what follows with some reactions from equally radical statements from far right is a simple truth that both sides can not ignore. That is, members of congress are on the payroll of corporate america, (ever since Supreme Court removed limits on their contribution.

Case in point: BofA hearing with the finance committee this year. The president of BofA showed IMO utter lack of respect for these members probing bank's wrong doings and losses. Why? .Because they are and were on his payroll. The reported contributions were flashed during this hearing indicating how much each one of these members received from the bank for reelection. That is the greatest concern and not the Taliban or the Tea Party. Puppets have no power, you do.

[Clocker]

And the Supreme Court has also cleared way by taken off all the regulations for campaign donations. The Koch brothers have opened the gates to Ali.

Have you been living in a cave in Afghanistan? That SCOTUS decision was in January, 2010. Did you just find out about it? There have been elections since then. Neither the Koch brothers nor the SCOTUS decision had any noticeable effect.

Political ads have no impact on low information voters who don't understand the issues and just vote the way they are told by their unions

[Capper Al]

And the voices in your empty head echo louder than anything.

Like I said not name calling, but their actions.

[Capper Al]

Have you been living in a cave in Afghanistan? That SCOTUS decision was in January, 2010. Did you just find out about it? There have been elections since then. Neither the Koch brothers nor the SCOTUS decision had any noticeable effect.

Political ads have no impact on low information voters who don't understand the issues and just vote the way they are told by their unions

You just don't think. The result of that decision has level headed repubs fearing their primaries. And like I said, what I'm discussing in this thread is not ideas, but their actions.

[Capper Al]

Generally I stay out of this Tea party = Taliban type of comparisions and what follows with some reactions from equally radical statements from far right is a simple truth that both sides can not ignore. That is, members of congress are on the payroll of corporate america, (ever since Supreme Court removed limits on their contribution.

Case in point: BofA hearing with the finance committee this year. The president of BofA showed IMO utter lack of respect for these members probing bank's wrong doings and losses. Why? .Because they are and were on his payroll. The reported contributions were flashed during this hearing indicating how much each one of these members received from the bank for reelection. That is the greatest concern and not the Taliban or the Tea Party. Puppets have no power, you do.

The problem is public gives up their power.

[fast4522]

We will see who loses more seats in these United States Congress.

[Clocker]

And like I said, what I'm discussing in this thread is not ideas, but their actions.

What actions? The only actions you have mentioned are extremely vague: "it's perfectly legal to work with lobbyist and pay for primary and/or election ads."

You have not made any attempt to identify or discuss the consequences of those actions, other than the incredibly vague assertion that those actions are achieving the goals of the Taliban. You have presented nothing concrete for discussion.

[DJofSD]

I am looking at actions here not words or ideas or name calling. In the end both the Taliban and the Tea Party have the same goal. Actions speak loader than words.
At least your thinking is internally consistent.

The problem is you can not differentiate between a process which is legal and one which is not. But then, when the ends justify the means, process is meaningless.

Keep your eye on the prize.

[Tom]

Too much month left at the end of the meds.

[Clocker]

Too much month left at the end of the meds.

Medical authorities have warned that mixing certain medications with Kool Aid can lead to severe delusional experiences.

[Track Collector]

Some folks have an irrational fear of the tea party, and yet they seem seem perfectly happy with the current corrupt government we have today and their push to grab even more power and ram thru and enforce legislation that is neither wanted nor good for us. :confused:

[JustRalph]

Some folks have an irrational fear of the tea party, and yet they seem seem perfectly happy with the current corrupt government we have today and their push to grab even more power and ram thru and enforce legislation that is neither wanted nor good for us. :confused:

Great point..........good post :ThmbUp:

[Capper Al]

Robert Reich former Secretary of Labor under Clinton posted the following on Facebook:

The issue we are about to face as a nation has nothing to do with the Affordable Care Act or any of the other of the demands Republicans are making. It has to do with political extortion: Republicans' threats to close the government or default on the nation's debts if they don't get their way. The President and the Democrats must not negotiate. Once you start negotiating with extortionists, there is no end to it. Extortionists will hold the nation hostage again and again. Any law on the books they don't like, any tax their wealthy patrons detest, any regulation their corporate bank-rollers would like to do away with, any subsidy or bailout their Wall Street underwriters desire, will be fair game.

Let Republicans carry out their threats. Let America see them do it and experience the consequences. And then let us send the Republican Party into the dust bin of history.

[JustRalph]

Robert Reich former Secretary of Labor under Clinton posted the following on Facebook:

The issue we are about to face as a nation has nothing to do with the Affordable Care Act or any of the other of the demands Republicans are making. It has to do with political extortion: Republicans' threats to close the government or default on the nation's debts if they don't get their way. The President and the Democrats must not negotiate. Once you start negotiating with extortionists, there is no end to it. Extortionists will hold the nation hostage again and again. Any law on the books they don't like, any tax their wealthy patrons detest, any regulation their corporate bank-rollers would like to do away with, any subsidy or bailout their Wall Street underwriters desire, will be fair game.

Let Republicans carry out their threats. Let America see them do it and experience the consequences. And then let us send the Republican Party into the dust bin of history.

yep.... he's another genius.......... **** Him! he's been a loser and untouchable by the Dems for years now..... he can't even get a job with Hillary.........he's been ostracized by his own

[Capper Al]

yep.... he's another genius.......... **** Him! he's been a loser and untouchable by the Dems for years now..... he can't even get a job with Hillary.........he's been ostracized by his own

You're the one saying this? The person that hunts down far right blogs mostly without any merit and posts them here. Fortunately, we have Mostpost willing to spend time and effort researching your post and finding the gibberish in them. On the other hand, Reich has written several good books that have exhibited thinking outside of the box.

[dkithore]

You're the one saying this? The person that hunts down far right blogs mostly without any merit and posts them here. Fortunately, we have Mostpost willing to spend time and effort researching your post and finding the gibberish in them. On the other hand, Reich has written several good books that have exhibited thinking outside of the box.

What I don't get is, this legislation passed the congress. supreme court declared it constitutional. Now what is this hoopla about? Certainly not the law but something else is bugging the tea party and their agenda is certainly a minority view I respect but to hold the country hostage in the name of big spending and big government is a poppy cock IMO.

Big corporations that stand to lose profits have placed their puppets strategically to safeguard their interests is obvious to me. I guess I am naive in believing "Do unto others as ..: teaching as a principle to live by is for Sunday school only.

[don]

This man (bad choice of words) needs to be sent home for good.

http://thehayride.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/reid-if-i-only-had-a-brain.jpg

[hcap]

This man (bad choice of words) needs to be sent home for good.

http://thehayride.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/reid-if-i-only-had-a-brain.jpgActually
.....
http://media.salon.com/2013/08/boehner_cantor_bachmann-620x412.jpg these guys are the ones that will pay the price at the polls

http://www.salon.com/2013/09/30/poll_americans_will_blame_gop_for_government_shutd own/

Poll: Americans will blame GOP for government shutdown

[badcompany]

yep.... he's another genius.......... **** Him! he's been a loser and untouchable by the Dems for years now..... he can't even get a job with Hillary.........he's been ostracized by his own

Not to mention that he's too old and short to be a jockey.


http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/thinlizzy21/001f631770a25f40b582a8dfe3ef5a8f_zps9976193d.jpg

[hcap]

Typical republican politician is damn petite (but happy as a pig gouging at a trough)

http://media.eyeblast.org/newsbusters/static/2008/12/Monopolymillionaire.jpg

[don]

The Madam of the House
http://api.ning.com:80/files/wFzHvoj3NXn2efwIUs4XH26zuf-4wwzcSPphXO4joO1yPNJsnIyYjsGVdqX3IIcpeDNi7u-EdEwKlgLvgZD3DOJ1T-GbVXdR/lunapic_133922961016838_2.jpg

[hcap]

Gee don, only 83 silly posts and already posting stupidly fabricated sloppy photo shopped jobs.

Bravo

[DJofSD]

Typical republican politician is damn petite (but happy as a pig gouging at a trough)

Typical demo-rat: there is not any problem that can not be solved using other peoples money.

[don]

Lottsa Fun, Isn't it hcap?

[hcap]

Typical corpor-rat Here is your master........

http://media.eyeblast.org/newsbusters/static/2008/12/Monopolymillionaire.jpg


And his tight-assed publicist
The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master.” - Ayn Rand

[hcap]

Lottsa Fun, Isn't it hcap?Actually this place has not changed in 10 years. Fun? More like fantasy.

[classhandicapper]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

The US (and pretty much the entire western) financial system is on the fast track to hell because we spend money we don't have, make promises we can't keep, and then print money to kick the can down the road, yet people are worried about The Party and some bogus political gamesmanship?

You should be worried about the long term cost of healthcare, SS, the military, etc... and the fact that Europe, Japan, and many other countries are in even worse shape than us. So when the system finally goes down in flames much like the Soviet Union did (they went down first because we are only half as stupid as them) you will be prepared.

It's likely savings will get inflated away, jobs will be scarce, capital controls will be put in place so you can't run for the exit even if you are smart enough to know to do so, and the government will do everything it can to keep control and force you to go down with the ship.

It's not a matter of if. On our current path it's a matter of when.

Anything that controls spending (and that's where the long term issue is) is a good thing and anything that expands it is suicidal.

[badcompany]

Actually this place has not changed in 10 years. Fun? More like fantasy.

Hcap, why don't you ever come to the PA meet ups in Saratoga? Or did I miss you this year?

If it's a health issue, I apologize in advance.

[hcap]

Thanks for asking. Yes health issues.

[Tom]

The US (and pretty much the entire western) financial system is on the fast track to hell because we spend money we don't have, make promises we can't keep, and then print money to kick the can down the road, yet people are worried about The Party and some bogus political gamesmanship?

Excellent post!
Capper-Al Qeda can't address this, so he fabricates BS and hcap swears to it.
Yes, fantasy is a good word for this nonsense from the resident lefties.

[Capper Al]

Excellent post!
Capper-Al Qeda can't address this, so he fabricates BS and hcap swears to it.
Yes, fantasy is a good word for this nonsense from the resident lefties.

We only don't have the money because we the top two percent won't pay their fair share. There's your answer.

[PaceAdvantage]

I thought the sequester was going to bring down the "economic system"

you can't have it both waysAnd I thought the Republican party was dead and buried. How do they continue to cause such problems for lefty Democrats?

I don't get it. Capper Al will set me straight though.

Oh, and all the left-leaners on here who would chastise me and others for bringing up 9/11 when talking about Benghazi...you know...we were all told "how dare you compare the two.."

I hope those people line up and yell at Capper Al....but they won't...duplicitous bastards one and all... :lol:

[Clocker]

We only don't have the money because we the top two percent won't pay their fair share. There's your answer.

The top 1% pay about 37% of all federal income taxes, and the top 5% pay about 59%. How much more than that is fair?

Given all federal, state, and local taxes, many rich people pay more than 50% of their income in taxes. I don't know what the "right" number should be, but more than half is not taxation, it is confiscation of property.

[BlueShoe]

Reich has written several good books that have exhibited thinking outside of the box.
Would seem as if this man is well named. :rolleyes: Reich as in Third Reich? His ideas seem to be to just let all powerful government dictate things and for citizens to do nothing and go along. Seem to recall a certain European power did that from 1933-1945, and it did not work out too well for them. Was Mr. Reich named after that one?

[Clocker]

Would seem as if this man is well named. :rolleyes: Reich as in Third Reich? His ideas seem to be to just let all powerful government dictate things and for citizens to do nothing and go along.


Reich teaches political science at Cal/Berkeley. All the usual stereotypes associated with that apply in spades to Reich. He believes that big businesses and Wall Street banks are evil, and that too much competition causes severe social problems.He also believes that corporations should play no role in politics, and that the government should enforce corporate social responsibility. He was Secy of Labor under Clinton, but thinks that Clinton is way too moderate.

[PaceAdvantage]

I was right...we have two threads going about this Taliban/Tea-Party crapola.

Capper Al, why did you feel the need to start two threads on this subject in such a short period of time?

[Clocker]

Capper Al, why did you feel the need to start two threads on this subject in such a short period of time?

It's like trying to order food in another country, and the waiter doesn't speak English. If you say it again, louder, surely he will understand.

[BlueShoe]

Reich teaches political science at Cal/Berkeley. All the usual stereotypes associated with that apply in spades to Reich.
In order for a professor to obtain tenureship teaching Poli Sci at UCB membership in the Communist Party, CPUSA, is practically a prerequisite. Before Berkeley he taught at Harvard, this background should be partial evidence of where he is coming from.

[cosmo96]

If I lose my healthcare, will the Koch brothers take care of me?

[Capper Al]

If I lose my healthcare, will the Koch brothers take care of me?

Simply put. Of course not. The real battle here is about the Global Funds verse the American government. We the people will effectively lose the power of our vote if the government gets any weaker.

[Tom]

Even mostie is giving you a :rolleyes: on that one!

Ever consider Laff Factory?

[PaceAdvantage]

If I lose my healthcare, will the Koch brothers take care of me?Why does everyone feel the need to be "taken care of?"

that's half the problem in a nutshell....

[DJofSD]

From the womb to the tomb.

[Robert Goren]

Why does everyone feel the need to be "taken care of?"

that's half the problem in a nutshell....Because not everybody is born rich and not everybody is smart enough to become rich. Not all of us have George Romney as a father nor do we have Steve Jobs's IQ. That's all the probem in a nut shell.

[DJofSD]

Because not everybody is born rich and not everybody is smart enough to become rich. Not all of us have George Romney as a father nor do we have Steve Jobs's IQ. That's all the probem in a nut shell.
Since when do you have to be rich before you can "take care of yourself?"

[PaceAdvantage]

Because not everybody is born rich and not everybody is smart enough to become rich. Not all of us have George Romney as a father nor do we have Steve Jobs's IQ. That's all the probem in a nut shell.That's YOUR problem, apparently.

Most people don't feel that way, thankfully.

Your obsession with the rich is clouding your judgement.

[Tom]

Defeatism is nice excuse for being a failure.
"If I was rich, I wouldn't be the stump I am today!" :lol:

[Robert Goren]

Since when do you have to be rich before you can "take care of yourself?" You haven't yet faced large medical bills, have you?

[DJofSD]

You haven't yet faced large medical bills, have you?
No, not like yours.

If free health care is the key requisite for being taken care up, how did the rest of the world for a majority of the history of the world get by?

[Robert Goren]

No, not like yours.

If free health care is the key requisite for being taken care up, how did the rest of the world for a majority of the history of the world get by? Very Poorly and still do. Modern medicine in the developed world is wonderful thing. If this was 1950s instead of the 2000s, I would dead several times over.

[classhandicapper]

We only don't have the money because we the top two percent won't pay their fair share. There's your answer.

Typical leftist response.

The implication.

"My ideas, values, goals etc... are superior to yours so that gives me the right to confiscate the fruits of your investment wisdom, business sense, labor etc.. and impose those values, goals, and ideas on you whether you like them or not, whether you think they will work or not, whether you think they are smart or not etc.... I know what is fair, and what is fair is for me to take whatever I need from you to implement my ideas, values and goals".

There's no consideration at all about the morality of not only confiscating someone else's wealth, but using it in a way that the tax payer might not approve of.

There's no consideration of the negative long term economic impact of taking the savings/investment capital of the wealthy and consuming with it now instead of investing it in the future growth of the country.

There's no consideration of the probability that the wealthy will look for lower tax alternatives (which could easily be other countries) to invest their money or decide that at higher tax rates more passive investments that don't create jobs and economic activity make more sense.

[JustRalph]

We only don't have the money because we the top two percent won't pay their fair share. There's your answer.

Yeah, they are only paying about 80% of all taxes.......

How's the weather on the other end of the teat?

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Capper Al
We only don't have the money because we the top two percent won't pay their fair share. There's your answer.


Show us the math.
What tax rate would be required, and how much revenue would it bring in?
What would be the delta from today?
What would be the deficit?
What would be the debt?

Obviously a smart fella like you has all that info, or you would not shoot your mouth off.

Right?

(Hope he doesn't get mad am and give me kooties!)

[Capper Al]

Typical leftist response.

The implication.

"My ideas, values, goals etc... are superior to yours so that gives me the right to confiscate the fruits of your investment wisdom, business sense, labor etc.. and impose those values, goals, and ideas on you whether you like them or not, whether you think they will work or not, whether you think they are smart or not etc.... I know what is fair, and what is fair is for me to take whatever I need from you to implement my ideas, values and goals".

There's no consideration at all about the morality of not only confiscating someone else's wealth, but using it in a way that the tax payer might not approve of.

There's no consideration of the negative long term economic impact of taking the savings/investment capital of the wealthy and consuming with it now instead of investing it in the future growth of the country.

There's no consideration of the probability that the wealthy will look for lower tax alternatives (which could easily be other countries) to invest their money or decide that at higher tax rates more passive investments that don't create jobs and economic activity make more sense.

Class,

I have a feeling that you are loaded. Fear not. No one is coming after your money. Back in Eisenhower's day, the top two percent paid up to 90% in the upper brackets.

I'm no commie, but a Democratic which to most of you around here is the same thing. In addition to raising taxes on the wealthy, I would stop anyone from taking anymore than $10,000 out of the country without paying taxes on it. There are too many bank accounts in the Caribbean. Matter of fact, all business done within the US would be subject to tax. None of this escaping paying taxes because one claims to be a foreign company.

The funniest one is about investing in the US. The problem is, generally, the money, along with the jobs, are drafting out of the US. Investment is better off following where the money is going for growth. That is what is happening. No amount of lower taxes is going to sell more pizzas here in the US. Now curry sales in India might or rice in China might be a better investment.

[cordep17]

already posting stupidly fabricated sloppy photo shopped jobs.
Bravo


Fabricating things about that "lady" isn't need. All we have to do is google her name and we get...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoE1R-xH5To

[hcap]

Show us the math.
What tax rate would be required, and how much revenue would it bring in?
What would be the delta from today?
What would be the deficit?
What would be the debt?

Obviously a smart fella like you has all that info, or you would not shoot your mouth off.

Right?

(Hope he doesn't get mad am and give me kooties!)

All the charts you NEVER wished to see

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph

[hcap]

Fabricating things about that "lady" isn't need. All we have to do is google her name and we get...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoE1R-xH5ToOne can find anything they want on the net. So why bother with photoshop? Including plenty of stupid comments from repugs.

[DJofSD]

All the charts you NEVER wished to see

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph
You can find anything you want on the internet. Lots of good looking charts and graphs. Everything except a good explanation to justify theft.

[hcap]

You can read the accompanying article and the datasets are available.

Look carefully for instance at this chart.

http://assets.motherjones.com/politics/2011/inequality-p25_averagehouseholdincom.png

See anything?

[DJofSD]

You betcha, a lot of wiggly lines.

Still no explanation or justification.

[hcap]

You betcha, a lot of wiggly lines.

Still no explanation or justification.You are in denial, it is right in front of your nose.

Go to the CBO and check the data points.
Or

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3629

A Guide to Statistics on Historical Trends in Income Inequality
Common knowledge you are making a big deal about just to be obstinate.

Hardly any one here in off topic will back up their opinions with facts, and when someone does, they are accused of drawing "wiggly lines" :sleeping:

[DJofSD]

When everything is equal will you be happy?

I doubt it.

While you worry about what the other guy has got and then you compare yourself to him, it must make your crazy.

Myself, I don't give a rat's ass how much you or the next guy has in the bank.

What if his wife is better looking than yours. What do you do then? I'm sure the other guy has a bigger pair than you do. Should Obama make that equal too?

[hcap]

It is also well known clearly that extreme inequality has economic consequences. More importantly what is clearly shown is the historical trend in re-distribution of wealth.............................UPWARDS!!

Contrary to all the righties and randians saying just thew opposite

BTW, the graphs answer some of Toms' rhetorically phrased questions about "show us the math"

[PaceAdvantage]

Class,

I have a feeling that you are loaded. Fear not. No one is coming after your money.On top of everything else, you get more obnoxious by the hour.

[Capper Al]

On top of everything else, you get more obnoxious by the hour.

Sorry, things not going your way? What did you think that you were able to preach your right wing propaganda without retaliation?

[Clocker]

It is also well known clearly that extreme inequality has economic consequences. More importantly what is clearly shown is the historical trend in re-distribution of wealth.............................UPWARDS!!


Your graphs are correct in showing what is happening. You have not presented an objective, documented explanation of the cause.

[Capper Al]

Your graphs are correct in showing what is happening. You have not presented an objective, documented explanation of the cause.

See your own graphs in another thread. At least, I gave you an explanation.

[hcap]

Your graphs are correct in showing what is happening. You have not presented an objective, documented explanation of the cause.I have many times. Hint: much to to with tax policy and how the corporate manipulators rig the system in favor of the top.

[Clocker]

I have many times. Hint: much to to with tax policy and how the corporate manipulators rig the system in favor of the top.

I asked for an objective explanation, not a conspiracy theory about the 1%ers and the Bilderbergers.

Hint: tax policy is part of the problem, but not in the way you imply.

[mostpost]

The top 1% pay about 37% of all federal income taxes, and the top 5% pay about 59%. How much more than that is fair?

Given all federal, state, and local taxes, many rich people pay more than 50% of their income in taxes. I don't know what the "right" number should be, but more than half is not taxation, it is confiscation of property.
According to charts provided by hcap and Mother Jones, the top 1% control 34.6% of the wealth of the nation. How does that not mean they should pay 37% of the taxes. I do not have a figure for what % the top 5% controls,but the top 10% controls 73.1%. That the top 5% should pay 59% of taxes seems reasonable.

Don't be confused into thinking that paying 37% or 59% of total taxes means they are paying 37% or 59% of their personal income. According to the CBO the effective individual tax rate for the top 1% in 2004 was 19.4%

[fast4522]

Absolutely nothing is going to change in your lifetime. :lol: :lol: :lol:

No one gives a shit, facts are every time these socialist policy's are used jobs suffer big time. Now you feel the trend is on your side for now, soon we won't be able to borrow much more from China. When that happens your the first one to feel a real budget cut, if you make it.

[Clocker]

According to charts provided by hcap and Mother Jones, the top 1% control 34.6% of the wealth of the nation. How does that not mean they should pay 37% of the taxes.

That is absurd. We tax income, not wealth. Wealth is what you have left over after your income is taxed. You already paid taxes on it when you earned it. By your logic, you should pay income tax on the equity of your house every year.

Don't be confused into thinking that paying 37% or 59% of total taxes means they are paying 37% or 59% of their personal income.

Duh, no kidding???

[PaceAdvantage]

Sorry, things not going your way? What did you think that you were able to preach your right wing propaganda without retaliation?I don't preach jack.

Your reality seems skewed. You see a right-winger behind ever shadow.

BOO!

[johnhannibalsmith]

That is absurd. We tax income, not wealth. ...

For the time being, of course.

[hcap]

Ever have your house appraised?

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/07/the-wealth-tax-revisited.php

Economist Tyler Cowen NYT

IF you’d like to know where American political debates are headed, the data suggest a simple answer. The next major struggle — in economic terms at least — will be over whether taxes on personal wealth should rise — and by how much. . .

In the United States, wealth taxes are currently limited to a few levies, such as property taxes and inheritance taxes. Capital gains taxes that aren’t indexed to inflation also serve as an implicit wealth tax, because they dig into the body of a person’s capital. Most likely those rates will rise. Like the bank robber Willie Sutton, revenue-hungry governments go “where the money is.”

[Capper Al]

I don't preach jack.

Your reality seems skewed. You see a right-winger behind ever shadow.

BOO!

You support your monkeys. You make personal attacks. Owning this website might even have you believing that you are a titan of industry.

[Tom]

You support your monkeys. You make personal attacks. Owning this website might even have you believing that you are a titan of industry.

Unlike nO-Care, you are not obligated to participate here.

[Capper Al]

Unlike nO-Care, you are not obligated to participate here.

Sorry about the monkey remark. I can see why you might be sensitive to that. It was nothing personal.

[hcap]

Toms' avatar is an orangutang, not a monkey.
So unless he is "generically" insulted, he has no reason to object to monkey. Of course who knows who he hangs out with and his "family tree"? :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

You support your monkeys. You make personal attacks. Owning this website might even have you believing that you are a titan of industry.Personal attacks are not my thing. However, they have become hcap's and mostpost's and YOUR thing as of late.

But allow me to live up to your inaccurate notion of me...

You're just plain nuts.

[badcompany]

Personal attacks are not my thing. However, they have become hcap's and mostpost's and YOUR thing as of late.

But allow me to live up to your inaccurate notion of me...

You're just plain nuts.

This Tea Party = Taliban narrative has been bouncing around the Loony Lib sites for the past few months.

These are the same morons who gave you "Bush was worse than Hitler."

--------------

Julian Bond, Former NAACP Chair: Tea Party Is 'Taliban Wing Of American Politics'

The Huffington Post | By Mollie Reilly
Posted: 05/14/2013 3:26 pm EDT | Updated: 05/14/2013 3:34 pm EDT

Former NAACP Chairman Julian Bond said Tuesday that it was "entirely legitimate" for the Internal Revenue Service to target conservative groups for increased scrutiny, calling the tea party the "Taliban wing of American politics."

"I think it's entirely legitimate to look at the tea party," Bond said during an interview with MSNBC's Thomas Roberts. "Here are a group of people who are admittedly racist, who are overtly political, who've tried as best as they can to harm President Obama in every way."

In 2004, the civil rights group was audited by the IRS in a move Bond criticized at the time as "an attempt to silence the NAACP."

"They are saying if you criticize the president we are going to take your tax exemption away from you," he said in 2004. "It's pretty obvious that the complainant was someone who doesn't believe George Bush should be criticized, and it's obvious of their response that the IRS believes this, too."

During the Tuesday interview, Bond denied that there was any parallel between the IRS' latest scandal and the NAACP audit.

"It was wrong for the IRS to behave in this heavy-handed manner. They didn't explain it well before or now what they're doing and why they're doing it," he said. "But there are no parallels between these two."

Bond said he hoped that the scandal wouldn't boost the tea party's electoral prospects in 2014's midterm elections.


"They are the Taliban wing of American politics," he said. "We all ought to be a little worried about them."

Roberts pushed back on Bond's statement, asking if the characterization was a "little harsh."

"Not at all," Bond replied. "The truth may hurt, but it's the truth."

[Capper Al]

Personal attacks are not my thing. However, they have become hcap's and mostpost's and YOUR thing as of late.

But allow me to live up to your inaccurate notion of me...

You're just plain nuts.

You are correct that we are using the personal attacks more now. I'd like to see this all go away, but your buddies use personal attacks more than counter arguments in replies to post. It looks like my side of the fence just isn't going to take it quietly anymore. I would recommend dropping politicals altogether from this site before your audience losses sight of what a fine handicapping site that this is.

[Capper Al]

This Tea Party = Taliban narrative has been bouncing around the Loony Lib sites for the past few months.

These are the same morons who gave you "Bush was worse than Hitler."


--------------

Julian Bond, Former NAACP Chair: Tea Party Is 'Taliban Wing Of American Politics'

The Huffington Post | By Mollie Reilly
Posted: 05/14/2013 3:26 pm EDT | Updated: 05/14/2013 3:34 pm EDT

Former NAACP Chairman Julian Bond said Tuesday that it was "entirely legitimate" for the Internal Revenue Service to target conservative groups for increased scrutiny, calling the tea party the "Taliban wing of American politics."

PA,

This is a typical reply. There is no counter agrument being given. It's just name calling. Is it worth risking your website to sponsor this? Maybe you could make another website for your buddies before it's too late?

[badcompany]

--------------

Julian Bond, Former NAACP Chair: Tea Party Is 'Taliban Wing Of American Politics'

The Huffington Post | By Mollie Reilly
Posted: 05/14/2013 3:26 pm EDT | Updated: 05/14/2013 3:34 pm EDT

Former NAACP Chairman Julian Bond said Tuesday that it was "entirely legitimate" for the Internal Revenue Service to target conservative groups for increased scrutiny, calling the tea party the "Taliban wing of American politics."

PA,

This is a typical reply. There is no counter agrument being given. It's just name calling. Is it worth risking your website to sponsor this? Maybe you could make another website for your buddies before it's too late?


Why would I argue with the mentally ill? They don't call you "Loony Libs" for nothing. You're not even original, as evidenced by a several month old piece I just posted.

[classhandicapper]

Class,

I have a feeling that you are loaded. Fear not. No one is coming after your money. Back in Eisenhower's day, the top two percent paid up to 90% in the upper brackets.

I'm no commie, but a Democratic which to most of you around here is the same thing. In addition to raising taxes on the wealthy, I would stop anyone from taking anymore than $10,000 out of the country without paying taxes on it. There are too many bank accounts in the Caribbean. Matter of fact, all business done within the US would be subject to tax. None of this escaping paying taxes because one claims to be a foreign company.

The funniest one is about investing in the US. The problem is, generally, the money, along with the jobs, are drafting out of the US. Investment is better off following where the money is going for growth. That is what is happening. No amount of lower taxes is going to sell more pizzas here in the US. Now curry sales in India might or rice in China might be a better investment.


Let me put it this way. I'm financially comfortable because I understand business and economics well. And for the record, I grew up poor, but quickly moved "right" because I understood what my best chance was to improve my circumstances.

I think I have a better understanding of how to fix this mess (the US) than most Americans because most people have other priorities and are busy living their lives.

On our current path I don't think it's likely that the US is going to collapse in an inflationary debacle or banking crisis, it's a 100% certainly. I'd practically bet my life on it. The only question is when. Since that's a matter of faith (and ignorance) in the US, it could be within a couple of years or it could be within a couple more decades, but it's going to happen.

The only way to fix this mess is to slow the growth of government spending to below the rate of GDP growth so the deficit will slowly shrink and ultimately we will produce surpluses that will get the debt load relative to GDP under control. If we do it by taxes we will stifle growth, encourage capital flight, and put more money in the hands of politicians (of both parties) that are either incomprehensibly ignorant, lacking in intelligence, irresponsible, evil....we will never accomplish the goal.

Anything that increases spending faster than GDP growth (like Obamacare) is flat out suicidal.

I'm all for trying to cover more people, getting health care costs under control, insurance reform etc.... But this bill does not accomplish that task in the correct way. It simply adds to the size of government and take us to the day of reckoning a little faster.

So I am all in favor of these attempts to defund Obamacare, get spending under control etc... I see some of the Tea Party members as national heroes no matter what the left and media does to paint them as heartless scumbags, extremists and crazy people. IMO, they are among the few people that actually understand what's at stake. What's at stake is the very lifestyle and standard of living we knew growing up. We need to reverse course fast or it's over.

[PaceAdvantage]

I would recommend dropping politicals altogether from this site before your audience losses sight of what a fine handicapping site that this is.Your suggestion has been duly noted.

However, off-topic is here for a reason. And it's been here for all 14 years of this website's existence. We've survived Clinton, Bush and now Obama. I think we'll be ok...

[DJofSD]

Your suggestion has been duly noted.

However, off-topic is here for a reason. And it's been here for all 14 years of this website's existence. We've survived Clinton, Bush and now Obama. I think we'll be ok...
Well done by you, Mike.

Why does the word hubris spring to mind? That's a rhetorical question.

[Valuist]

You are correct that we are using the personal attacks more now. I'd like to see this all go away, but your buddies use personal attacks more than counter arguments in replies to post. It looks like my side of the fence just isn't going to take it quietly anymore. I would recommend dropping politicals altogether from this site before your audience losses sight of what a fine handicapping site that this is.

Are you aware that YOU are the one who started this thread?

[ArlJim78]

You are correct that we are using the personal attacks more now. I'd like to see this all go away, but your buddies use personal attacks more than counter arguments in replies to post. It looks like my side of the fence just isn't going to take it quietly anymore. I would recommend dropping politicals altogether from this site before your audience losses sight of what a fine handicapping site that this is.
Bad form for someone who starts a topic comparing tea party to the Taliban to then whine about personal attacks.
You sure spend a lot of time in off-topic stirring the pot, for someone so concerned about people losing sight of what a fine handicapping site this is.

[badcompany]

Are you aware that YOU are the one who started this thread?


Probably not. :(

[Capper Al]

Bad form for someone who starts a topic comparing tea party to the Taliban to then whine about personal attacks.
You sure spend a lot of time in off-topic stirring the pot, for someone so concerned about people losing sight of what a fine handicapping site this is.

That was a website overall statement. You might of known that and didn't care or you might not get it. Either way your refutation is made without any argumentative substance, you are whining about whining.

[Tom]

However, off-topic is here for a reason. And it's been here for all 14 years of this website's existence. We've survived Clinton, Bush and now Obama. I think we'll be ok...

LOL! We survived some wild times here in OT over the years....and at Yahoo!
Ah, the good old days.

[Capper Al]

That was a website overall statement. You might of known that and didn't care or you might not get it. Either way your refutation is made without any argumentative substance, you are whining about whining.

Okay. OT reminds me of the bar in Star Wars, a bunch of wild characters.

[hcap]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/02/the-tea-party-created-an-existential-threat-to-america-not-obamacare/

The tea party created an existential threat to America, not Obamacare
By The Christian Science Monitor
Wednesday, October 2, 2013 8:10 EDT


...We live in a democratic republic. The people elect legislators who pass legislation and a president who signs it into law. By its very nature, there are winners and losers. Sometimes one party wins and gets the legislation it wants. Sometimes not. But most of the time we compromise. We get a little here and give a little there. We work together. I can tell you as the father of five children, this is a life lesson every four-year-old has to learn.

Unfortunately, it’s a lesson that tea party Republicans – caught in the fog of war and self-appointed last stands – seem to have forgotten.

Read it!

[PaceAdvantage]

This isn't the first time the gov't has been "shut down" and it won't be the last. Why is everyone acting so like this is an unheard of thing. Didn't Tip O'Neil (a DEMOCRAT-gasp!) pull this stunt? 12 times in fact according to simple research. And not once was Tip called a terrorist...all you guys calling Tea Party congressmen terrorists can suck it.

I'm surprised you guys haven't gone full-bore "racial" on us...blaming the shut down on Obama's skin color...claiming Republicans wouldn't have acted this way had Obama been white. :lol:

I guess that's coming next...

[Tom]

Bottom line - either party could end it today.
The dems will not negotiate anything, so they are making a choice.
The repubs are determined to either stop Obama Care or at least make it apply to EVERYONE. They made a choice.

The dems are not willing to make Obama Care the same for all - people and corporations alike. They have decided to side with the Corporations in this, and of course, make sure THEY are not a part of O-care.

So get off your high horses - both sides have a role in this.
One side is trying to make it less painful by funding certain areas and the other is looking our their own arses.

Meanwhile, the sun came up again today.
The birds are still signing.
The debt is still growing.

[HUSKER55]

the tea party is just expressing their view points. If they make more sense than the dems then the only recourse by dems is to call them names and make fun of them.

Bitch all you want but our system is working at its' finest.

Live with it!

[rastajenk]

"This is what democracy looks like!"

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."

I swear I've heard those somewhere before...

[Capper Al]

This shut down is going to be long. The dems will continue to win the PR war. The repubs will convince themselves that they made a moral victory and won't understand why they lost the next election so badly. The country isn't better off for all this trouble.

[Greyfox]

Tea Partiers were elected by their constituents on promises to keep Government spending down.
That was the mandate given by their electorates, full stop.
They are trying to do that with firm resolve.
Over 5 years the President has shown little or no inclination to get the National Debt under control or pare Government services. He's had more than ample time to bring that challenge to the fore. Instead he's acted with spendthrift wrecklessness as if the Debt doesn't exist. In fact he's almost doubled it.
Also Obama saw this deadline coming for several months and opted to avoid getting into meaningful discussions with Boehner on how to resolve it.
His refusal to communicate and negotiate on this matter is contributing to the current log jam as much as anything.
In effect, "He made his own bed, now he has to lie in it."

[Capper Al]

Tea Partiers were elected by their constituents on promises to keep Government spending down.
That was the mandate given by their electorates, full stop.
They are trying to do that with firm resolve.
Over 5 years the President has shown little or no inclination to get the National Debt under control or pare Government services. He's had more than ample time to bring that challenge to the fore. Instead he's acted with spendthrift wrecklessness as if the Debt doesn't exist. In fact he's almost doubled it.
Also Obama saw this deadline coming for several months and opted to avoid getting into meaningful discussions with Boehner on how to resolve it.
His refusal to communicate and negotiate on this matter is contributing to the current log jam as much as anything.
In effect, "He made his own bed, now he has to lie in it."

That's the Koch Brothers' mandate. Tea Party followers are just fools who want to believe that they understand something, so they are fed little bits of false axioms through propaganda.

What's amazing the Super Global Funds will make a killing on the turmoil to come. They'll understand the markets affected and now when and what to buy or short. The little won't have an idea of what's going on.

[DJofSD]

Sick puppy.

[rastajenk]

Indeed. The Koch Bros. propaganda machine is more powerful than the Federal Government's? I don't think so.

[Greyfox]

The little won't have an idea of what's going on.

That's true. You are the epitome of that.

[Tom]

Repubs control:

80% of the House (Tea Party the rest, but only TP candidates get elected)

Dems control:

Senate
Executive Branch
The Media
The education system

It's an upward fight, maties, but arrrrrr, we gots to do it!

[DJofSD]

Repubs control:

80% of the House (Tea Party the rest, but only TP candidates get elected)

Dems control:

Senate
Executive Branch
The Media
The education system

It's an upward fight, maties, but arrrrrr, we gots to do it!

http://dont-tread-on.me/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/LastGreatActOfDefiance-1-300x286.gif

[PaceAdvantage]

This shut down is going to be long. The dems will continue to win the PR war. The repubs will convince themselves that they made a moral victory and won't understand why they lost the next election so badly. The country isn't better off for all this trouble.They were going to lose anyway. Don't you follow your own propaganda? The Republican party died long ago...or don't you recall?

BTW, did you call Tip O'Neil a terrorist back in the day?

No? I didn't think so.

[DJofSD]

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/03/Tea-Party-Patriots-Have-Record-Attendance-for-Cruz-Tele-Townhall

They can't all be supporters, can they?

[Tom]

I saw a poll - CNN? - that said 24% blamed the Repubs, 31% blamed Obama.
I missed the rest, but I assume the other choices were dems, both, and the LIV respnse - Undecided!

What is becoming clear to many people is that Obama has no leadership qualities.

Of course, that applies to Boehner and Reid as well.
Our government is a disgrace. It is run by fools and elitists.

[hcap]

Repubs control:

80% of the House (Tea Party the rest, but only TP candidates get elected)

Dems control:

Senate
Executive Branch
The Media
The education system
Pa Off Topic :lol:
It's an upward fight, maties, but arrrrrr, we gots to do it!.

FTFY
You forgot one

[hcap]

I saw a poll - CNN? - that said 24% blamed the Repubs, 31% blamed Obama.
I missed the rest, but I assume the other choices were dems, both, and the LIV respnse - Undecided!

What is becoming clear to many people is that Obama has no leadership qualities.

Of course, that applies to Boehner and Reid as well.
Our government is a disgrace. It is run by fools and elitists.CVN Poll: Majority says raise debt ceilin

By Paul Steinhauser, CNN Political Editor
updated 1:33 PM EDT, Wed October 2, 2013

....They apparently feel the same way about blocking an increase in the nation's debt ceiling to stop Obamacare, according to a new national poll released on Wednesday.

A CNN/ORC International survey also indicates that a majority of the public would point fingers at Republicans in Congress if the nation's ability to borrow more money is not increased.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/02/politics/cnn-poll-debt-ceiling/index.html
.............................................

Washington (CNN) -- If the federal government shuts down starting Tuesday because of a bitter partisan battle over the new health care law, more people say congressional Republicans rather than President Barack Obama would be responsible, according to a new national survey.

A CNN/ORC International poll released Monday morning, hours before funding for the government is scheduled to run out, also indicates that most Americans think Republicans in Congress are acting like spoiled children in this fiscal fight, with the public divided on whether the president is acting like a spoiled child or a responsible adult.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/30/politics/cnn-poll-shutdown-blame/index.html

'Az di bobe volt gehat beytsim volt zi geven mayn zeide' = 'if my grandmother had had balls, she'd have been my grandfather'

[hcap]

Some history for Tea Party types

http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/dont-call-it-tea-party-its-real-name-libertarian-billionaire-agenda


Don't Call It the 'Tea Party' -- Its Real Name Is 'Libertarian Billionaire Agenda'
The Tea Party's astroturf roots should have been obvious to anyone paying attention to their rallies.
Thom Hartmann

...The small handful of oil and Wall Street groups behind the Tea Party, groups like FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity, were all front organizations for the billionaire oil tycoons and banksters who wrecked the economy.

And if you need any more proof of whose interests the Tea Party actually represents, consider this: Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks actually began as parts of the group Citizens for a Sound Economy, which was created in 1984 to defend the interests of big tobacco companies. They even started something they called a "tea party" in the 1980s so that smokers could have a "smokers' rights" group.

The billionaires behind these groups weren't trying to save democracy, they were trying to hijack it, and they were rich and powerful enough to be able to essentially buy their own politicians and dupe a few thousand "American" activists to do their bidding.

The Tea Party's astroturf roots should have been obvious to anyone paying attention to their rallies. Back in 2009, for example, Americans for Prosperity, the pet-project of the oil-rich Koch Brothers, actually bussed Tea Party "activists" around the country to protest President Obama's proposed healthcare law.
...............................

As GWB once said....
There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002

[classhandicapper]

Some history for Tea Party types

http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/dont-call-it-tea-party-its-real-name-libertarian-billionaire-agenda


Don't Call It the 'Tea Party' -- Its Real Name Is 'Libertarian Billionaire Agenda'
The Tea Party's astroturf roots should have been obvious to anyone paying attention to their rallies.
Thom Hartmann

...The small handful of oil and Wall Street groups behind the Tea Party, groups like FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity, were all front organizations for the billionaire oil tycoons and banksters who wrecked the economy.

And if you need any more proof of whose interests the Tea Party actually represents, consider this: Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks actually began as parts of the group Citizens for a Sound Economy, which was created in 1984 to defend the interests of big tobacco companies. They even started something they called a "tea party" in the 1980s so that smokers could have a "smokers' rights" group.

The billionaires behind these groups weren't trying to save democracy, they were trying to hijack it, and they were rich and powerful enough to be able to essentially buy their own politicians and dupe a few thousand "American" activists to do their bidding.

The Tea Party's astroturf roots should have been obvious to anyone paying attention to their rallies. Back in 2009, for example, Americans for Prosperity, the pet-project of the oil-rich Koch Brothers, actually bussed Tea Party "activists" around the country to protest President Obama's proposed healthcare law.
...............................

As GWB once said....
There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002


The Tea Party movement is growing out of the Ron Paul, Lew Rockwell, Austrian economics, Ludwig von Mises institute movement.

It's a libertarian movement that is ANTI-FED/banker, anti intervention overseas, in favor of small government, in favor of hard money (often gold) etc... It's nothing new. It's been around for decades, but started growing in popularity as the internet grew in popularity and people started reading and self educating themselves on matters of money, banking, business cycles, markets etc... (actually I should say deprogramming themselves from the shit we are all taught in school)

There may be a handful of rich dudes that are helping finance some of the activities and organizations, but no one in the Tea Party is paying any attention to those bozos. They are paying attention to Ron Paul and the school of intellectual thought that created him.

[Greyfox]

Back in 2009, for example, Americans for Prosperity, the pet-project of the oil-rich Koch Brothers, actually bussed Tea Party "activists" around the country to protest President Obama's proposed healthcare law.
...............................



Greyfox's Law -
The worth of an idea should be evaluated independently of it's source.

I've used the above concept to guide my life for many years.
It implies that even the village idiot can say something wiser than the King on occasion.
One of the biggest problems people have is that they confuse the message and the source. Advertising agencies know that. Hence we have movie stars pushing products that they know nothing about. For instance, what does Robert Redford know of importance about the oil industry and pipelines? Yet he's out there flapping his lips as if he's an expert.
hcap and Capper Al seem all hung up here on the belief that the Koch brothers are behind the Tea Party movement.
That really doesn't matter a hill of beans as to whether or not the Tea Party movement has value in pushing their core concepts.
The fact is the Tea Party movement's ideas have resonated with a significant number of people who have like-minded ideas as to where the management of the economy and debt should be going.
If you don't like their ideas that's fine.
But the worth of an idea should be evaluated on the meat of it's content, not who's promoting it.
hcap and Capper Al are making serious errors in bias in not following that principle.
If they want to sell us on what concepts of the Tea Party are wrong that's fine. But to focus on some of the roots of the movement is an error in judgement, in my opinion.

Greyfox

[PaceAdvantage]

Some history for Tea Party types

http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/dont-call-it-tea-party-its-real-name-libertarian-billionaire-agenda


Don't Call It the 'Tea Party' -- Its Real Name Is 'Libertarian Billionaire Agenda'
The Tea Party's astroturf roots should have been obvious to anyone paying attention to their rallies.
Thom Hartmann

...The small handful of oil and Wall Street groups behind the Tea Party, groups like FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity, were all front organizations for the billionaire oil tycoons and banksters who wrecked the economy.

And if you need any more proof of whose interests the Tea Party actually represents, consider this: Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks actually began as parts of the group Citizens for a Sound Economy, which was created in 1984 to defend the interests of big tobacco companies. They even started something they called a "tea party" in the 1980s so that smokers could have a "smokers' rights" group.

The billionaires behind these groups weren't trying to save democracy, they were trying to hijack it, and they were rich and powerful enough to be able to essentially buy their own politicians and dupe a few thousand "American" activists to do their bidding.

The Tea Party's astroturf roots should have been obvious to anyone paying attention to their rallies. Back in 2009, for example, Americans for Prosperity, the pet-project of the oil-rich Koch Brothers, actually bussed Tea Party "activists" around the country to protest President Obama's proposed healthcare law.
...............................

As GWB once said....
There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002Holy shit from shinola. Are you seriously going to sit there and promote the theory that the Tea Party should be invalidated because of having wealthy backers?

Really?

REALLY?

WOW.

Think about that theory again, then get back to me.

Make sure you meditate on the name SOROS and HOLLYWOOD ELITE...for starters...before you get back to me.

[Tom]

If hcap had gone a real TP rally, he would not be talking out of his arse.
His perception of the world comes in a daily email, not experience.
Saves a lot of time to buy your opinions.

[Clocker]

Back in 2009, for example, Americans for Prosperity, the pet-project of the oil-rich Koch Brothers, actually bussed Tea Party "activists" around the country to protest President Obama's proposed healthcare law.

And back on Tuesday, SEIU actually paid people to pose as laid off government workers and demonstrate at the WW II Memorial against the shut down, urging Boehner to let them go back to work. Thus also distracting from the real issue that the administration went to extra expense to close the memorial to dramatize the shut down by insulting WWII vets.

[hcap]

hcap and Capper Al are making serious errors in bias in not following that principle.
If they want to sell us on what concepts of the Tea Party are wrong that's fine. But to focus on some of the roots of the movement is an error in judgement, in my opinion.In general your law translates to "judgement upon it's merits" and generally I agree. But we are in the realm of politics and the SELLING of ideas plays a crucial part in gaining political power. We also judge a candidate on character. If one lies, we tend to choose another. How often in legal proceedings do we hear......
" it goes to character".

Besides If you think libertarianism is valid and good, why not vote Libertarian?. I was one in my teens. I do get it theoretically, but find it tends to go to extremes in Objectivism , and rather mean spirited in execution.

[hcap]

And back on Tuesday, SEIU actually paid people to pose as laid off government workers and demonstrate at the WW II Memorial against the shut down, urging Boehner to let them go back to work. Thus also distracting from the real issue that the administration went to extra expense to close the memorial to dramatize the shut down by insulting WWII vets.Got a link?

[Clocker]

Got a link?

Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BaF5ROfu0s)

[hcap]

Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BaF5ROfu0s)Accompayning documents of any sort?

PS: A union paying some handful of folks to picket is not exactly a fake political movement.

PPS: Never said all the left was totally clean. Maybe you should post this on the union thread to support just how evil unions really are :lol:

[Clocker]

Accompayning documents of any sort?



I thought a video would be sufficient proof that it actually happened. I didn't want to post documents because I know how tired moonbats get moving their lips when they read.

[PaceAdvantage]

PS: A union paying some handful of folks to picket is not exactly a fake political movement.Fake political movement?

You mean like MoveOn.org? Backed by Soros? You mean that kind of fake?

If I run a search on here, am I going to see you excoriating MoveOn.Org as a fake political movement? Something tells me the answer to that question is a BIG FAT NO.

You're a hypocrite of the highest order, once again.

What else does Soros have his hands/money on when it comes to the left?

But not a peep of criticism from our left-leaning friends on here.

You (and mosty, and Capper Al and most every other vocal lefty) are the EXACT SAME as the righties on here. You just believe in a different God.

But your actions and your approach to your philosophy is almost EXACTLY the SAME.

But ya'll don't even have the common decency to admit THAT MUCH!

[Clocker]

A union paying some handful of folks to picket is not exactly a fake political movement.



A union that is the strongest supporter of the most transparent administration in history paying people to pretend to be furloughed federal workers is exactly a lie.

[mostpost]

Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BaF5ROfu0s)
Over in another thread, PA chastised me for thinking I'm smarter than all the righties on this board. Your so called video makes me think that is an accurate assessment.

We have a guy taking a video and screaming over and over "Where's your federal ID?" Then, conveniently, a guy comes along, stops and smiles at the camera. Even though there is no discernible marking that indicates the man is a McDonald's employee, camera guy starts shouting "You worked at McDonald's;how much did you get paid to come?" Faux McDonalds guy answers "$15"

I think he is telling the truth. I think he did get paid $15....by the James O'Keefe wannabe camera guy.

I am also wondering what proof you have that SEIU was involved. Why you think anyone would need to hire fake picketers. Considering that those people were unfairly thrown out of their jobs by the crazy right, how hard would it be to get them to join a protest.

[hcap]

Fake political movement?

You mean like MoveOn.org? Backed by Soros? You mean that kind of fake?

If I run a search on here, am I going to see you excoriating MoveOn.Org as a fake political movement? Something tells me the answer to that question is a BIG FAT NO.

You're a hypocrite of the highest order, once again.

What else does Soros have his hands/money on when it comes to the left?

But not a peep of criticism from our left-leaning friends on here.

You (and mosty, and Capper Al and most every other vocal lefty) are the EXACT SAME as the righties on here. You just believe in a different God.

But your actions and your approach to your philosophy is almost EXACTLY the SAME.

But ya'll don't even have the common decency to admit THAT MUCH!At the momement we are talking about the TeePEERS and the shut down and their opposition to Obamacare. Not Soros. You gentlemen recently tried pulling Warren Buffet intio your convoluted crapola by falsely accusing him of hating Obamacare by using once again dubvious sources. Now your going to try out a "George Soros conspiracy theory"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros_conspiracy_theories

Many conspiracy theories have been created about Hungarian-American financier and philanthropist George Soros since his rise to economic wealth. Many of them deal with the intersection between his political beliefs and his financial wealth; author Michael Wolraich has deemed the phenomenon "Anti-Sorosism".[1]

Anti-Sorosism has come under increasing scrutiny due to the growing political currency of anti-Soros conspiracy theories in conservative and nationalist circles, with Wolraich comparing anti-Sorosism to long-running conspiracy theories about the Rothschild family dating to 1800s Europe.[1]
.................................................. ...

Youse guys are a riot. And NO, the Left is not the equivalent of the Right. And although the left has it's moments, the right is way way crazier.

[mostpost]

I thought a video would be sufficient proof that it actually happened. I didn't want to post documents because I know how tired moonbats get moving their lips when they read.
In other words you don't have supporting documents.

[hcap]

In other words you don't have supporting documents.Or if they do, often those are wrong or downright misleading

[Tom]

Or if they do, often those are wrong or downright misleading

Like a birth certificate?

[Clocker]

Your so called video


Gee, I could have sworn I linked to a video. What did it turn out to be?

You just jumped through more hoops than it takes to sign up for ObamaCare to disprove a video that speaks for itself.

According to you, the camera guy found a protest demonstration, then went and found a McDonalds worker to pretend that he was a pretend federal worker??? Dude, you shouldn't be hitting the Kool Aid so hard so early in the day. You gotta pace yourself.

[hcap]

Tom, all the birth certificate threads were a perfect glimpse into the "mind" of PA Off Topic and all perfect examples of just how bonkers the right really is.

Thanks!

[PaceAdvantage]

Tom, all the birth certificate threads were a perfect glimpse into the "mind" of PA Off Topic and all perfect examples of just how bonkers the right really is.

Thanks!Yeah...so bonkers that Obama was forced to address the issue. Does he address all issues brought up by crazy people?

How does he ever find time to play golf?

[dartman51]

Yeah...so bonkers that Obama was forced to address the issue. Does he address all issues brought up by crazy people?

How does he ever find time to play golf?

Not to mention the 1 million plus, he spent fighting the court cases, trying to make him show it. Doesn't sound like someone with nothing to hide. :ThmbUp:

[mostpost]

Fake political movement?

You mean like MoveOn.org? Backed by Soros? You mean that kind of fake?

If I run a search on here, am I going to see you excoriating MoveOn.Org as a fake political movement? Something tells me the answer to that question is a BIG FAT NO.

You're a hypocrite of the highest order, once again.

What else does Soros have his hands/money on when it comes to the left?

But not a peep of criticism from our left-leaning friends on here.

You (and mosty, and Capper Al and most every other vocal lefty) are the EXACT SAME as the righties on here. You just believe in a different God.

But your actions and your approach to your philosophy is almost EXACTLY the SAME.

But ya'll don't even have the common decency to admit THAT MUCH!
MoveOn.org was founded in 1998 by Joan Blades and Wes Boyd, owners of a Berkeley software company, to urge Congress to censure President Clinton and move on rather than impeaching him.

Six years later Soros contributed $1.46M as a matching gift to money donated by small donors. That was the first donation to MoveOn.org by Soros and it was the last. That same year, 2004, MoveOn received $60M in donations from members and small donors. Over the years Soros has provided well under 1% of the financing of MoveON.org.

Once again you post garbage and I post facts. Not that that makes me any smarter or anything.

[mostpost]

The Tea Party movement is growing out of the Ron Paul, Lew Rockwell, Austrian economics, Ludwig von Mises institute movement.

It's a libertarian movement that is ANTI-FED/banker, anti intervention overseas, in favor of small government, in favor of hard money (often gold) etc... It's nothing new. It's been around for decades, but started growing in popularity as the internet grew in popularity and people started reading and self educating themselves on matters of money, banking, business cycles, markets etc... (actually I should say deprogramming themselves from the shit we are all taught in school)

There may be a handful of rich dudes that are helping finance some of the activities and organizations, but no one in the Tea Party is paying any attention to those bozos. They are paying attention to Ron Paul and the school of intellectual thought that created him.
90% of the people attending Tea Party rallies or voting for Tea Party candidates have no clue what Austrian economics is or who Ludwig von Mises was.

You say you are anti-FED/banker and in favor of small government. Well, if there is a small government, who is going to control the bankers? The free market? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[mostpost]

Not to mention the 1 million plus, he spent fighting the court cases, trying to make him show it. Doesn't sound like someone with nothing to hide. :ThmbUp:
If I had a dollar for every time that was proven false, I'd be quadrillionaire.

[Greyfox]

If I had a dollar for every time that was proven false, I'd be quadrillionaire.

And two posts earlier you, Mostie, said "I post facts.":rolleyes:

[Tom]

Man, they're biting today! :lol:

[mostpost]

Gee, I could have sworn I linked to a video. What did it turn out to be?

You just jumped through more hoops than it takes to sign up for ObamaCare to disprove a video that speaks for itself.

According to you, the camera guy found a protest demonstration, then went and found a McDonalds worker to pretend that he was a pretend federal worker??? Dude, you shouldn't be hitting the Kool Aid so hard so early in the day. You gotta pace yourself.
I will rephrase. "Your so called video proof."
The demonstration speaks for itself. There is no need to pay people to demonstrate. They have sufficient motivation. And they have the time since the Tea Party shut down the government.

What your video is trying to convince us of is that government workers would not protest policies that directly effect their pocketbooks in a negative way.

[PaceAdvantage]

MoveOn.org was founded in 1998 by Joan Blades and Wes Boyd, owners of a Berkeley software company, to urge Congress to censure President Clinton and move on rather than impeaching him.

Six years later Soros contributed $1.46M as a matching gift to money donated by small donors. That was the first donation to MoveOn.org by Soros and it was the last. That same year, 2004, MoveOn received $60M in donations from members and small donors. Over the years Soros has provided well under 1% of the financing of MoveON.org.

Once again you post garbage and I post facts. Not that that makes me any smarter or anything.And once again you ignore the rest of my post.

Hope you're not claiming that $1.46M was all the financing Soros has ever done to further left-leaning causes.

How much did he spend to try and get George Bush defeated in 2004?

Oh yeah...that's right...

In an interview with The Washington Post on November 11, 2003, Soros said that removing President George W. Bush from office was the "central focus of my life" and "a matter of life and death". He said he would sacrifice his entire fortune to defeat President Bush "if someone guaranteed it".[55] Soros gave $3 million to the Center for American Progress, $2.5 million to MoveOn.org, and $20 million[56] to America Coming Together. These groups worked to support Democrats in the 2004 election. On September 28, 2004 he dedicated more money to the campaign and kicked off his own multi-state tour with a speech: Why We Must Not Re-elect President Bush[57] delivered at the National Press Club in Washington, DC. The online transcript to this speech received many hits after Dick Cheney accidentally referred to FactCheck.org as "factcheck.com" in the Vice Presidential debate, causing the owner of that domain to redirect all traffic to Soros' site.[58]

And chew on this for a while (Koch vs. Soros):

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2010/09/opensecrets-battle---koch-brothers.html

They conclude it's pretty much a draw when all monies are accounted for.

VERDICT: Given the difficultly in tracking donations to nonprofits and charitable organizations, it's almost impossible to quantify whether the Koch brothers or Soros dominate this political realm. That said, both the Kochs and Soros have spent incredible riches in this area with no sign of stopping.

[hcap]

Yeah...so bonkers that Obama was forced to address the issue. Does he address all issues brought up by crazy people?

How does he ever find time to play golf?I can;'t believe you are suspecting that Obama was forced to politically defend himself because of some "truth" that might bring him down. That's like saying blackmail is justified because it may work at times.

[Clocker]

The demonstration speaks for itself. There is no need to pay people to demonstrate. They have sufficient motivation.


If it speaks for itself, how does a paid protester demonstrate that there is no need for paid protesters?

What your video is trying to convince us of is that government workers would not protest policies that directly effect their pocketbooks in a negative way.

It's not my video. Someone else posted it on the web.

The video is trying to convince us of a fact. The fact is that the union is paying non-union members to protest the lay off of union members. I have not attributed any motive to the video. You have attributed numerous motives to me, to the video, and to all the conspiracy theories about evil-doers out to kill the unions and enslave the working class.

It's a fact of life that even libs admit. Unions pay protesters. Why do you continue to bash your head against the wall of reality?

[PaceAdvantage]

I can;'t believe you are suspecting that Obama was forced to politically defend himself because of some "truth" that might bring him down. That's like saying blackmail is justified because it may work at times.I'm saying...if "birthers" were nothing more than crazy bonkers loony bin burnouts...why did Obama feel the need to address the issue at all?

Obviously, somebody, somewhere, of some importance, put some stock into what they (collectively) were stating. Or else Obama would have simply ignored them...like you're supposed to ignore crazy people muttering to themselves while walking down the street.

[hcap]

You have to be kidding. The game is politics the immediate goal is winning elections. Do you honestly thing the birth cert. promoters were out for truth?

Try easily spooked voters instead.

[PaceAdvantage]

You have to be kidding. The game is politics the immediate goal is winning elections. Do you honestly thing the birth cert. promoters were out for truth?

Try easily spooked voters instead.I believe the simple question I asked...was...if the "birther" movement was nothing but a bunch of kooks and kwacks, why did Obama ever give them the time of day?

Or do you contend Obama ignored them? That of course wouldn't be reality, but hey, you've never let that stop you before... :lol:

[JustRalph]

I will rephrase. "Your so called video proof."
The demonstration speaks for itself. There is no need to pay people to demonstrate. They have sufficient motivation. And they have the time since the Tea Party shut down the government.

What your video is trying to convince us of is that government workers would not protest policies that directly effect their pocketbooks in a negative way.

Clockers vid has been substantiated. The guy actually does work at a Mcd's in a federal building. He was paid by the SEIU to protest at the WWII memorial. He was paid to interfere with the honor flights. It's no surprise to those who expect this crap from unions.

Look around on the net. You can find the info.

[Clocker]

Look around on the net. You can find the info.


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-L-fBpmMI2rA/USESBoppQ5I/AAAAAAAAQGY/V5JmVeGEDQw/s1600/See_no_Evil_Hear_no_Evil_Speak_no_Evil_1.jpg

[Jay Trotter]

Bigmack

[Robert Goren]

I believe the simple question I asked...was...if the "birther" movement was nothing but a bunch of kooks and kwacks, why did Obama ever give them the time of day?

Or do you contend Obama ignored them? That of course wouldn't be reality, but hey, you've never let that stop you before... :lol:One thing is for sure, they were wrong as the guys who predicted a Romney victory. Of course, for the most part they were the same people. Both were misled by the right wing media who actually knew better. They were lied to and want to believe anything bad about Obama that they fell for it. The sad part is that some of them still refuse believe the truth.

[Clocker]

90% of the people attending Tea Party rallies or voting for Tea Party candidates have no clue what Austrian economics is or who Ludwig von Mises was.

Is this statistic based on your own in-depth research, or from one of the technical journals you subscribe to?



You say you are anti-FED/banker and in favor of small government. Well, if there is a small government, who is going to control the bankers? The free market?

The Fed was established in 1913. The country grew quite a bit in the years up to that point. There is no evidence that the financial system operated any better under the Fed.

[Robert Goren]

Is this statistic based on your own in-depth research, or from one of the technical journals you subscribe to?



The Fed was established in 1913. The country grew quite a bit in the years up to that point. There is no evidence that the financial system operated any better under the Fed.You have a real problem with history, don't you?

[mostpost]

Clockers vid has been substantiated. The guy actually does work at a Mcd's in a federal building. He was paid by the SEIU to protest at the WWII memorial. He was paid to interfere with the honor flights. It's no surprise to those who expect this crap from unions.

Look around on the net. You can find the info.
I did what you said. I googled "McDonalds worker paid to protest shutdown."
I found pages of repetitive stories from right wing bloggers. Finally I found a Huffington Post article that told the real story. I was going to post that but then I found this:
http://www.ironicsurrealism.com/2013/10/02/mcdonalds-employee-admits-seiu-paid-him-15-to-protest-ww2-vets-at-wwiimemorial-video/

It was basically the same story about how Patrick Poole of PJ media confronted the protesters and got one of them to admit they were not federal workers. The thing is they never claimed to be federal workers. Here is an update from Mr. Poole himself found at the above link.
More from Patrick Poole.

UPDATE: Huffington Post reporter Arthur Delaney states that the protest was organized by a group called “Good Jobs Nation,” not SEIU as I previously reported, and that, remarkably, the protesters weren’t even federal employees at all but individuals who WORK in federal buildings affected by the shutdown.

Apparently Mr. Poole is not intelligent enough to figure out why a McDonalds worker who works in a shut down Federal building would be affected by the shutdown. Maybe because if the building is closed, the restaurant will also be closed.

The protesters, who never claimed to be federal employees, were workers at restaurants and shops and other businesses which were located in various federal buildings. SEIU is the largest union for such workers. That is why SEIU staged the rally. I do not care if they were paid or not. It costs money to travel around Washington. $15 would barely pay for public transit or parking.

I do concede that I was incorrect about the McDonalds worker being in cahoots with the camera guy.

[Clocker]

You have a real problem with history, don't you?

Thank you for that detailed clarification.

[JustRalph]

Good Jobs nation, their largest funding source is........wait for it........


S E I U

[Tom]

One thing is for sure, they were wrong as the guys who predicted a Romney victory. Of course, for the most part they were the same people. Both were misled by the right wing media who actually knew better. They were lied to and want to believe anything bad about Obama that they fell for it. The sad part is that some of them still refuse believe the truth.

You are farther off base than hcap is.
I formed my own opinion with out the help of anyone else.
You are the one in denial about Obama.....deep denial.
You need a hobby, Bobby - thinking ain't cutting it for you.

[BlueShoe]

The Tea Party movement is growing out of the Ron Paul, Lew Rockwell, Austrian economics, Ludwig von Mises institute movement.

It's a libertarian movement that is ANTI-FED/banker, anti intervention overseas, in favor of small government, in favor of hard money (often gold) etc... It's nothing new. It's been around for decades, but started growing in popularity as the internet grew in popularity and people started reading and self educating themselves on matters of money, banking, business cycles, markets etc... (actually I should say deprogramming themselves from the shit we are all taught in school)
Perhaps not so much defined as Libertarian but rather as Paleoconservative might be a more accurate label. We paleocons have definite issues with the neocons, and also with libertarians. PaleoCons are often referred to as the Old Right as well. The much maligned Wikpedia has a pretty good article defining paleoconservatism. Heavy reading but worthwhile. It would be particularly helpful to the leftists on this site to take a look instead of shrieking and howling about nonsense like American Taliban that their propaganda mills have force fed them.

[hcap]

Yessireebob! Paleoconservativism is the more mature adult trying to educate their irresponsible youngins/ the TealePartiousosaurs.

Here's a momma paleosaur giving her youngin' a horsey back ride. Cute

[fast4522]

Just lovely.

[PaceAdvantage]

One thing is for sure, they were wrong as the guys who predicted a Romney victory. Of course, for the most part they were the same people. Both were misled by the right wing media who actually knew better. They were lied to and want to believe anything bad about Obama that they fell for it. The sad part is that some of them still refuse believe the truth.So I guess that convoluted non-answer to my real question is an admission that IN FACT President Obama felt COMPELLED to address the "birther" charges being thrown at him...

[chrisl]

Hey Fast: Glad to see that you like the Palin facebook page.

[TJDave]

So I guess that convoluted non-answer to my real question is an admission that IN FACT President Obama felt COMPELLED to address the "birther" charges being thrown at him...

Today he felt COMPELLED to suggest the Redskins change their name.

[Tom]

I feel compelled to to tell Obama something....How about the Washington Scumbags, in honor of the Senate and White House?

Shut your big mouth, Barry - and start acting like a leader.
Google leader if you have to, you simpleton.

[Clocker]

Today he felt COMPELLED to suggest the Redskins change their name.

Well, it's not like he has anything more pressing on his mind.

[Clocker]

Shut your big mouth, Barry - and start acting like a leader.
Google leader if you have to, you simpleton.

He doesn't have to look it up. He nailed it on the floor of the Senate in 2006.

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. …

Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that “the buck stops here.” Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.

[Tom]

He says now that he knows better with the knowledge of POTU.
So, wouldn't a man of some class offer his apology to Bush for making what Obama now admits was a totally wrong statement.

Someone check with Guiness.....I may be the first person to use the words Obama and class in the same sentence, without using the world low! :lol:

[JustRalph]

Actually
http://www.salon.com/2013/09/30/poll_americans_will_blame_gop_for_government_shutd own/

[B]Poll: Americans will blame GOP for government shutdown



Hey laughing boy? The Repubs now hold more house seats than at any time in history. If that's what you call punishment....

I can't wait for 2016.

Just a little reminder for you and your government shutdown whiners.

[JustRalph]

This shut down is going to be long. The dems will continue to win the PR war. The repubs will convince themselves that they made a moral victory and won't understand why they lost the next election so badly. The country isn't better off for all this trouble.

Looking like a real Nostradamus this fine Wednesday morning! :lol: :lol:

[Clocker]

Looking like a real Nostradamus this fine Wednesday morning! :lol: :lol:

It's not nice to speak ill of the dearly departed. :p

[Robert Goren]

I remember the last great GOP congressional election in 1994. That revolution lasted 12 years. Which was 8 years longer than democratic one in 2006. It seems to me that now days off year elections are decided by how much hate you can generate among your base for the sitting president. This election was about Obama. Anybody who says different is delusional. The 2006 one was about Bush. The 1994 one was about Clinton. The 2018 will be about whoever is president then unless we are attacked again like on 9/11.

[tucker6]

I remember the last great GOP congressional election in 1994. That revolution lasted 12 years. Which was 8 years longer than democratic one in 2006. It seems to me that now days off year elections are decided by how much hate you can generate among your base for the sitting president. This election was about Obama. Anybody who says different is delusional. The 2006 one was about Bush. The 1994 one was about Clinton. The 2018 will be about whoever is president then unless we are attacked again like on 9/11.
The sky is blue. Water is wet.

[Tom]

Correct Bobby.
America HATES the dems and Obama and voted that way. :lol:
Obama said this election was about his policies.
Sounds right...no one wants them.

Those racist threats back fired.
America is tired of the democrap.
Dems spread fear and hate like jelly on a fat boy's toast.
The message last night was: ENOUGH!

[JustRalph]

The internals on this election should be fascinating

reports of those young people living in mom's basement coming out for Repubs?

I will believe it when someone verifies it.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Republicans/conservatives finally saw enough of the scam and got sick of being played for fools time and again by offering blind support and we ended up with a tea party. I think a lot of Democrats are feeling the same way right now after being duped for six straight years and and then being asked to believe a bunch of nonsense time and time again like some skeezy fling. Surely, the Republicans wont do anything but perform shittily enough to get democrats back a few seats eventually. I think, just maybe, we may not be too far away from a legit third party candidate (that will not be a subsidiary to one of the two parties) capturing enough voters to really shake loose some sentiment to get serious about breaking up this monopoly of idiocy in our legislative and executive.

[rastajenk]

I don't see that happening too soon: too much top-down, not enough bottom-up in any potential third party. There's not enough, if any at all, coordination at the local levels. The main reason the tea party confederacy has had any legs at all is because they have infiltrated Republican committees at the county level, sent delegates to conventions at the state level, influenced party platforms, you know, the background work that has to be done before the more glamorous business of touting candidates for office. It's hard to imagine, at this time, when a third party can nudge its way into the two-party control of local elections. A national candidate who's a little of this, a little of that, will caucus with these guys some of the time, those other guys when needed, moderate, rational, realistic, will not be able to overcome the "ground game" the main two parties have developed.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I don't see that happening too soon: too much top-down, not enough bottom-up in any potential third party. There's not enough, if any at all, coordination at the local levels. The main reason the tea party confederacy has had any legs at all is because they have infiltrated Republican committees at the county level, sent delegates to conventions at the state level, influenced party platforms, you know, the background work that has to be done before the more glamorous business of touting candidates for office. It's hard to imagine, at this time, when a third party can nudge its way into the two-party control of local elections. A national candidate who's a little of this, a little of that, will caucus with these guys some of the time, those other guys when needed, moderate, rational, realistic, will not be able to overcome the "ground game" the main two parties have developed.

Yup, the election laws and financing have made it fairly impossible but that whole scheme is part of what I think might wind up actually accelerating things. Perspective is a weird thing and maybe it just seems this way or I want it to be this way - but it sure feels like people are beginning to catch on that they are enabling the good old boy racket by playing along and not asking questions why we always get the prison menu at election time.

[horses4courses]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzOXmQyIAAEZwcq.jpg

[Clocker]

Anyone that believes that stuff about the Tea Party is the lowest of the low information voters.

There is no one Tea Party, and no one set of "beliefs". And none of the Tea Party groups that I am aware of take a position on social issues like abortion, same sex marriage, etc. That graphic shows serious ignorance of the political scene today.

[JustRalph]

Horsey, get over the election......it's eating you alive.......

Btw, when did the Tea party kill someone?

[horses4courses]

Horsey, get over the election......it's eating you alive.......

Btw, when did the Tea party kill someone?

See "Kills figures of authority"

[JustRalph]

See "Kills figures of authority"

They killed somebody in Vegas?

[horses4courses]

They killed somebody in Vegas?

Perhaps they weren't up to date with their dues,
but the sentiment of affiliation was there.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/06/09/report-swastikas-found-in-apartment-of-las-vegas-cop-killers/

[Clocker]

They killed somebody in Vegas?

The Tea Party charge was pure idiocy. A couple of white supremacists shot a couple of cops. Among all of their supremacist BS, including swastikas, was a "Don't tread on me flag". So the moonbats tried to make them out to be Tea Partiers.

Story (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/06/09/report-swastikas-found-in-apartment-of-las-vegas-cop-killers/)

[horses4courses]

The Tea Party charge was pure idiocy. A couple of white supremacists shot a couple of cops. Among all of their supremacist BS, including swastikas, was a "Don't tread on me flag". So the moonbats tried to make them out to be Tea Partiers.

Story (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/06/09/report-swastikas-found-in-apartment-of-las-vegas-cop-killers/)

Granted, the shooters in Las Vegas were likely not of sane mind.
Neither was Terry Nicholls - another who fits the bill of a TP sympathizer.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Congratulations on trying to fill the shoes left by Al... that takes a lot of something somewhere and very little something elsewhere.

[Clocker]

Neither was Terry Nicholls - another who fits the bill of a TP sympathizer.


This is nuts. Do you know anyone in the Tea Party? Have you done any research about what they stand for?

There are 3 basic principles of the Tea Party movement: small government, fiscal responsibility, and free markets. Does that sound like terrorist bombers and cop killers?

Please tell me you are trolling and don't believe this nonsense about bigotry and anarchy, please.

[Clocker]

Congratulations on trying to fill the shoes left by Al... that takes a lot of something somewhere and very little something elsewhere.

Even Al would not go that far. He would admit that greedy capitalist bastages stop short of killing the poor and middle class when they can make more money exploiting them.

[JustRalph]

This is a reach.....

[fast4522]

You folks never want to call things as they are, a bunch of whiners like from SNL. Is it closer to the truth that you have confirmed democrats and confirmed republicans each having a percentage with a growing number of independents taking from both party's? And to go one further these independents are the core of the Tea party? The main reason they are not fixated on abortion and other hot button issues is because independents (Tea Partyers) are more concerned about fiscal matters that impact us all.

[Robert Goren]

This is nuts. Do you know anyone in the Tea Party? Have you done any research about what they stand for?

There are 3 basic principles of the Tea Party movement: small government, fiscal responsibility, and free markets. Does that sound like terrorist bombers and cop killers?

Please tell me you are trolling and don't believe this nonsense about bigotry and anarchy, please.Those are things they want to run on, but...... with any politician you need to read the fine print. The fine print from some "tea party" candidates is markedly different than the large print.

[Robert Goren]

You folks never want to call things as they are, a bunch of whiners like from SNL. Is it closer to the truth that you have confirmed democrats and confirmed republicans each having a percentage with a growing number of independents taking from both party's? And to go one further these independents are the core of the Tea party? The main reason they are not fixated on abortion and other hot button issues is because independents (Tea Partyers) are more concerned about fiscal matters that impact us all. It has been my experience that almost all "tea partiers" are pro life and many are on the extreme edges of the pro life movement. They try real hard to hide that because it is conflict with their "small government" campaign message. You are going to have to look long and hard to find a "tea party" candidate who is pro choice.

[fast4522]

It has been my experience that almost all "tea partiers" are pro life and many are on the extreme edges of the pro life movement. They try real hard to hide that because it is conflict with their "small government" campaign message. You are going to have to look long and hard to find a "tea party" candidate who is pro choice.


Experience is a good word, your posts posts show a lack of it. It is all about voting blocks, sometimes democrats getting that rubik's cube of voting blocks in alignment. What is most disturbing to some of you is that the next time the left aligns the voting blocks again it is likely most who are not doing well will be dead. So for some this latest loss at election time is a eternity.

[Robert Goren]

Experience is a good word, your posts posts show a lack of it. It is all about voting blocks, sometimes democrats getting that rubik's cube of voting blocks in alignment. What is most disturbing to some of you is that the next time the left aligns the voting blocks again it is likely most who are not doing well will be dead. So for some this latest loss at election time is a eternity.You are the one who has a simple explanation. Elections are about three things. Personalities, hot button issues and timing. Election are cyclical in nature. The throw the bums out is always in play. New bums get elected and then get thrown out too for yet another bunch of bums. Likable personalities can survive a lot cycles though on the state level. Hot button issues can swing election only rarely. The last election was a cycle election. The off year election in as president second term is bad his party, but it seldom predicts future elections. It was a vote against Obama just as the 2006 election was a vote against Bush. 2016 is a new election. Most years presidential election are more about Personalities than issues or cycles. Most years. Unless there is a war or a depression, the most likable candidate will in win the general in 2016. It was that way in 2000 and 2008 and 1960 and 1952. Years when a there is a sitting president are special case, but even then the most likable candidate usually wins. But a hot button issue can take down a sitting president. Bush41 was an example of that with is tax pledge. There are lot of people who vote for who they think is the best man. The issue voters for the most part cancel each other out. Even if an issue gets enough steam to swing one cycle, it seldom can swing two.
There are issues which effect similar people. Taxes for businessmen voters or racism for black voters. One of things the GOP has never figure out in their attempt to get black voters. While the GOP claims their candidates are not racist, they talk about the same things, the racist did 50 or 60 years ago. Most blacks will not vote for a candidate who says anything in favor of "states rights". The GOP hasn't figure that out. If the GOP were to run a candidate who ran against "states rights", they might get some blacks' vote. "It should be left to the states" are fighting words for a black voter. It is also music to the ears of a tea party voter. Which is why so many black (and others) are suspicious of the tea party.

[fast4522]

RG,

I am not black, and do not qualify about experience about being so. States rights are all about sovereignty that each has and is part of what made our country great. While your agenda that you are a part of is all about tearing apart what made this country great, we will remind you from time to time that it is you who are shovel ready not States Rights. I go to Santa Anita every so often and like you enjoy the racing there, I would gladly spread the ashes for you at the finish line instead of the race card.

[Robert Goren]

RG,

I am not black, and do not qualify about experience about being so. States rights are all about sovereignty that each has and is part of what made our country great. While your agenda that you are a part of is all about tearing apart what made this country great, we will remind you from time to time that it is you who are shovel ready not States Rights. I go to Santa Anita every so often and like you enjoy the racing there, I would gladly spread the ashes for you at the finish line instead of the race card.Can I have my brother send you my ashes (when I actually become ashes) and have you spread them over the SA finish line?;)
I am not sure so sure states rights has had anything do to with making this country great. It seems to me the more country has moved away from states rights, the more powerful in the world it has become. Look at history of the country starting with the civil war and show me where states rights moved the country forward.

[fast4522]

Yes,

Truth is ideology is not personal, sometimes we have to include racing.
I have to cut the cards if I intend on playing today, enjoy the racing today RG.

[ArlJim78]

you have to go back 100 years to find a time when republicans held as man legislative seats across the country as they do now. they now control 70 percent of the countries state legislatures.

I say long live the lunatic left and their warped view of reality.
Long live privileged white women whining about paying $8 bucks for birth control available at any drug store.
long live women wearing vagina costumes whining about imaginary people wanting to control their bodies.
Long live the hysterical climate alarmists warning of doom and gloom.
Long live the race card players.
and long live that "tea party is worse than the taliban" stuff. It's gold Jerry. Gold.

[fast4522]

you have to go back 100 years to find a time when republicans held as man legislative seats across the country as they do now. they now control 70 percent of the countries state legislatures.

I say long live the lunatic left and their warped view of reality.
Long live privileged white women whining about paying $8 bucks for birth control available at any drug store.
long live women wearing vagina costumes whining about imaginary people wanting to control their bodies.
Long live the hysterical climate alarmists warning of doom and gloom.
Long live the race card players.
and long live that "tea party is worse than the taliban" stuff. It's gold Jerry. Gold.

Take a gander of some early posts in this thread.

[fast4522]

I have not seen Stinks this month at all.

[horses4courses]

you have to go back 100 years to find a time when republicans held as many legislative seats across the country as they do now.

They got just over 50% of the vote from 37% of the electorate.
That's around 19% of the total electorate.

So, the GOP is yelling "mandate" . :lol:

[fast4522]

Your a pretty good jinx to have around, start a new thread for the next election. :lol: :lol:

[Clocker]

They got just over 50% of the vote from 37% of the electorate.
That's around 19% of the total electorate.

So, the GOP is yelling "mandate" . :lol:

In 2012, Obama got 51% of the popular vote with 58% turnout. That's around 29% of the total electorate. Is that the definition of a "mandate"?

P.S. Most people don't see this election as a mandate for the GOP. They see it as a repudiation of Obama's policy, exactly as he characterized the election.

[PaceAdvantage]

Horsey, get over the election......it's eating you alive.......I admit...it's entertaining to see the flailing...

[davew]

They got just over 50% of the vote from 37% of the electorate.
That's around 19% of the total electorate.

So, the GOP is yelling "mandate" . :lol:


and Obama KNOWS that the 2/3rds that did not vote still back and agree with him completely.

[woodtoo]

and Obama KNOWS that the 2/3rds that did not vote still back and agree with him completely.

Of course HE knows,all the empty ballots should be an Obama vote.

Actually he won the nonvoter election.:eek: