Terror Attack in Kenya

[Tom]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/attackers-storm-nairobi-mall-killing-dozens/2013/09/22/9234d360-237f-11e3-ad0d-b7c8d2a594b9_story.html

Questions that need answers:

1. Obama said Al Qeda was dead or on the run......how could such a smart man be so wrong?
2. The Religion of Peace......does anyone still buy that line?
3. Should Narobi be re-named Chicago?
4. Could one of those terrorists be Obama's son? Or cousin, or bother?

[HUSKER55]

everything is going as I've foreseen...

said the sith lord to darth vader

[jballscalls]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/attackers-storm-nairobi-mall-killing-dozens/2013/09/22/9234d360-237f-11e3-ad0d-b7c8d2a594b9_story.html

Questions that need answers:

1. Obama said Al Qeda was dead or on the run......how could such a smart man be so wrong?
2. The Religion of Peace......does anyone still buy that line?
3. Should Narobi be re-named Chicago?
4. Could one of those terrorists be Obama's son? Or cousin, or bother?

1. Does "Islamist Extremists" mean Al Queda? What if these were just rogue Islamist extremists? I'm not familiar with the naming of groups over there.
2. I would think you wouldn't lump in millions of millions of peaceful people with the fanatics. I mean, you wouldn't lump in the murderous gun toters who shoot up movie theaters and elementary schools with good peaceful gun owners would you?
3. No
4. Probably not. I don't think he has any relatives in Nairobi and he's not a Muslim.

I'm only answering the questions above because I take great offense to the implications they present. You're using a terrible tragedy to push an agenda, similar to what the left do when there is a gun tragedy here in the states. I know you're being a little sarcastic cause I know you're far too intelligent to believe the questions up there, but I do think you ask them with a grain of truth as well.

Sorry for being angry, just tired of people using tragedy for personal/political idealogical advancement.
Hope you pick some winners today!

[Greyfox]

2. I would think you wouldn't lump in millions of millions of peaceful people with the fanatics.
4. Probably not. I don't think he has any relatives in Nairobi and he's not a Muslim.

I'm only answering the questions above because I take great offense to the implications they present.!

2. Millions of millions of Muslims are not with the "fanatics."
But, they know that the extremists among them consider anyone who does not buy into their Islamic agenda is an infidel.
As a result, the Imam's and those millions seem scared shitless to:
a. Stand up and be counted
b. Speak out and march against those terrorists
Until they do, it is not a religion of peace and their silence makes them guilty by association.

4. Not a Muslim? You be the judge:

bMUgNg7aD8M


XE9mZCRX2mg

[jballscalls]

2. Millions of millions of Muslims are not with the "fanatics."
But, they know that the extremists among them consider anyone who does not buy into their Islamic agenda is an infidel.
As a result, the Imam's and those millions seem scared shitless to:
a. Stand up and be counted
b. Speak out and march against those terrorists
Until they do, it is not a religion of peace and their silence makes them guilty by association.

4. Not a Muslim? You be the judge:

bMUgNg7aD8M

I've just had different experiences with Muslims I guess. I've had some discussions with Muslim classmates who all pretty seriously condemn jihadists and Al Queda folks.

do you think speaking out and marching against the terrorists here in the States is going to stop any extremists over the oceans? Most marches I think have little to zero effect on anything IMO. Even if they are only symbolic.

[Greyfox]

do you think speaking out and marching against the terrorists here in the States is going to stop any extremists over the oceans? Most marches I think have little to zero effect on anything IMO. Even if they are only symbolic.

1. Yes.
The anti-Vietnam marches in the 1970's had an effect.
Martin Luther King's marches had an effect.

2. They don't speak out anywhere. Take for example, ex-Muslim female activist
Ayaan Hirsi Ali had to flee Holland for speaking up.
She now lives with body guard protection in the United States somewhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali

3. I've also posted a second video of Obama since you responded.

[jballscalls]

1. Yes.
The anti-Vietnam marches in the 1970's had an effect.
Martin Luther King's marches had an effect.

2. They don't speak out anywhere. Take for example, ex-Muslim female activist
Ayaan Hirsi Ali had to flee Holland for speaking up.
She now lives with body guard protection in the United States somewhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali

3. I've also posted a second video of Obama since you responded.

The video is snippets and clips and they all back up the fact that he has been around and lived with Muslim people for much of his life, and has been influenced by many in the faith and the culture.

I have a similar experience, in that I've been raised in communities with many christians, and have learned and accepted many of their values that I like, and denounce some of their values that I don't like. I think Obama has denounced Al Queda and Jihadism on several occasions. I know he gets heat from O'Reilly for not saying the words "muslim terrorism" enough, but he's condemned and I think has actually done some work to try and get rid of them hasn't he? If he was such a Muslim and afraid to speak up against them, can't imagine he'd have bin laden killed and conducted drone warfare against al queda. Clearly he must not be Muslim, cause they're all afraid to speak up and act against Jihadists, Obama did.

[johnhannibalsmith]

If Obama's a muslim and he's busy blowing up terrorist Muslims then I guess someone is speaking out. :)

[Greyfox]

If Obama's a muslim and he's busy blowing up terrorist Muslims then I guess someone is speaking out. :)

Personally, I don't care what his religion is.
Whoever you think that he is blowing up is essentially matching his own interests.
That is not the type of speaking out that I am referring to.
Why doesn't he call for Muslims everywhere to have a jihad against terrorists??

[rastajenk]

... and denounce some of their (Christians') values that I don't like.
Really? Like what?

[Tom]

If Obama's a muslim and he's busy blowing up terrorist Muslims then I guess someone is speaking out. :)

You really need to run for something I can vote for.

[jballscalls]

Really? Like what?

I think most of the values of the church are fantastic and overall think they far outweigh the ones I have personal contentions with like stances on marriage equality, being judgmental, wanting God in school, I'm pro-choice (pro abortion).

[rastajenk]

But those are political opinions, about which even Christians cover every inch of the scale. You don't really have a problem with "do unto others...," ten commandments, basic tenets, am I right?

[jballscalls]

But those are political opinions, about which even Christians cover every inch of the scale. You don't really have a problem with "do unto others...," ten commandments, basic tenets, am I right?

I thought in both posts, the initial one, and the response to you, I addressed that I thought christian values overall are great and something I've tried to embrace in my own life.

[jballscalls]

every time I tell myself I'm never going to post back here, I read a post and comment and inevitably disagree with everyone in the post and then get in trouble LOL

I have no will power!

[rastajenk]

Neither do I. :cool:

[don]

Shoot a couple over their bow, that oughtta scare'em

[PaceAdvantage]

every time I tell myself I'm never going to post back here, I read a post and comment and inevitably disagree with everyone in the post and then get in trouble LOL

I have no will power!Trouble? I don't see no stinkin trouble...lol

[Tom]

No will power?
You could end up Secretary of theTreasury! :D

No trouble, JB....we don't havbe to agree - just be civl about it.
You are.

Come on in , the water's nice.
Ignore the blood in it! :eek:

[thaskalos]

2. Millions of millions of Muslims are not with the "fanatics."
But, they know that the extremists among them consider anyone who does not buy into their Islamic agenda is an infidel.
As a result, the Imam's and those millions seem scared shitless to:
a. Stand up and be counted
b. Speak out and march against those terrorists
Until they do, it is not a religion of peace and their silence makes them guilty by association.


Harsh words...

I didn't see any Christians marching against the pedophile Catholic priests, and the shameful cover-up within the Church which kept them in "business" for decades. Does that make the millions and millions of Christians "guilty by association" too?

[Greyfox]

Harsh words...

I didn't see any Christians marching against the pedophile Catholic priests, and the shameful cover-up within the Church which kept them in "business" for decades. Does that make the millions and millions of Christians "guilty by association" too?

They've been marching with their feet out of the pews in most first world western countries or haven't you noticed the declining attendances at Catholic churches?

[thaskalos]

They've been marching with their feet out of the pews in most first world western countries or haven't you noticed the declining attendances at Catholic churches?
That's not the same thing...and the declining attendance at Catholic Churches can be attributed to various reasons.

You said that the millions of Muslims were "guilty by association"...because they didn't speak out and march against the atrocities committed by the fanatics among them.

The Pedophile priests -- and the cover-up under which they were allowed to operate -- was also a shameless atrocity...and yet, there were no marches of protest by the millions of the Christian faithful. Shouldn't THEY be considered "guilty by association" too?

Or are we using a "double standard" here?

[tucker6]

No will power?
You could end up Secretary of theTreasury! :D

No trouble, JB....we don't havbe to agree - just be civl about it.
You are.

Come on in , the water's nice.
Ignore the blood in it! :eek:
and all the fins...

[tucker6]

That's not the same thing...and the declining attendance at Catholic Churches can be attributed to various reasons.

You said that the millions of Muslims were "guilty by association"...because they didn't speak out and march against the atrocities committed by the fanatics among them.

The Pedophile priests -- and the cover-up under which they were allowed to operate -- was also a shameless atrocity...and yet, there were no marches of protest by the millions of the Christian faithful. Shouldn't THEY be considered "guilty by association" too?

Or are we using a "double standard" here?
I'm neither a muslim nor a catholic, and Greyfox is much closer to correct on this than you are. Not sure if you are just taking the devil's point, or if you believe what you wrote. I certainly know of many catholics that were disgusted by their church's actions, and did indeed vote with their feet and/or spoke opening to church officials about the issue of priest pedophilia. The fact that the church is now discussing allowing priests to marry shows that the faithful were not happy about the status quo and that changes were required. I guess I haven't seen that type of introspection yet from the muslims. Have you, and if so, can you provide an example or two of real outrage?

[fast4522]

thaskalos,

Would it be fair to say there is no willingness to confront the root cause of these problems? That this is in fact the reason others are unreasonable in other threads, because they too are unwilling to confront the wrong in their point of view?

[thaskalos]

I'm neither a muslim nor a catholic, and Greyfox is much closer to correct on this than you are. Not sure if you are just taking the devil's point, or if you believe what you wrote. I certainly know of many catholics that were disgusted by their church's actions, and did indeed vote with their feet and/or spoke opening to church officials about the issue of priest pedophilia. The fact that the church is now discussing allowing priests to marry shows that the faithful were not happy about the status quo and that changes were required. I guess I haven't seen that type of introspection yet from the muslims. Have you, and if so, can you provide an example or two of real outrage?

Of course I believe what I wrote; I wouldn't have written it if I didn't believe it.

You can't hold ALL the people of a race or creed responsible for the crimes committed by the relative few -- as Greyfox suggested you could -- and that was my entire point. Because, when you start holding EVERYBODY in a group responsible for the atrocious actions of the relative few just because they didn't "march" against those actions...then all of us are "guilty by association".

And, yes...I've seen plenty of peaceful Muslims in my day...and they all regret and deeply disagree with the actions of these fanatics.

[horses4courses]

My wife traveled to Kenya for 2 weeks last February with a local charity group.
It was a terrific experience for her, and she really enjoyed it.
She figured the most dangerous event there was crossing the street.
Me? I'm not so sure.

My current dilemma is that my nearly 18 year old daughter is booked to travel there with the same group this February. Can't say I'm enthused about it at all.
I have voiced my concerns - but no cancellation, as yet.
A few months to go before it happens, but I'm none too happy.

[Greyfox]

And, yes...I've seen plenty of peaceful Muslims in my day...and they all regret and deeply disagree with the actions of these fanatics.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

Many Catholics have spoken out about the church atrocities in various media forms. They've spoken out loudly and without fear of reprisals.

How many Muslims, Imam's included, have gone on radio and TV and newpapers speaking out against the terrorists??
You can maybe name a handful and that is about it.

Furthermore, many western media outlets are also in fear of saying much about these terrorists.
Look what happened to cartoonists who mocked Allah.
All sorts of cartoonists aren't afraid to crack jokes about Christ and God.

[Tom]

There have been many Catholics who have stood up against this, many in the courts. No Priests ever declared war on young boys, issues no fatwaws.

Very poor analogy.

[thaskalos]

You're comparing apples and oranges.

Many Catholics have spoken out about the church atrocities in various media forms. They've spoken out loudly and without fear of reprisals.

How many Muslims, Imam's included, have gone on radio and TV and newpapers speaking out against the terrorists??
You can maybe name a handful and that is about it.

Furthermore, many western media outlets are also in fear of saying much about these terrorists.
Look what happened to cartoonists who mocked Allah.
All sorts of cartoonists aren't afraid to crack jokes about Christ and God.

You said march. You didn't see the Muslims marching in protest...so you called them guilty by association.

Now you are saying that the Christians have "spoken out about the church atrocities...". That's not "marching"...is it? Plenty of Muslims have also "spoken out in various media forms"...and we've all seen them.

No religion condones violence. Only the crazed, fanatical, literal fundamentalists see these kinds of meanings in the various religious texts...and they alone are responsible for these heinous "religious crimes".

And Christianity has committed more than its share of these crimes too...

[Greyfox]

You said march. You didn't see the Muslims marching in protest...so you called them guilty by association.

.

I know that you read better than that.

In the original post that you are referring to I said:

"b. Speak out and march against those terrorists
Until they do, it is not a religion of peace and their silence makes them guilty by association."

To avoid carps like yours, I should have said "Speak out and/or march."
Until they speak out, they will not march.
Until they speak out, they are silent.

[Greyfox]

Plenty of Muslims have also "spoken out in various media forms"...and we've all seen them.




We've all seen them? Really.

The number of Catholics who have spoken out about the church's pedophilia has been a thousandfold the number of Muslims who have spoken out against the terrorist groups.

I also seem to recall that Obama himself had his staff abstain from any references to Muslim Terrorists. It's still a no no at the White House.

[rastajenk]

No religion condones violence.
I'm not so sure about that.

[Greyfox]

I'm not so sure about that.

And right you are.

The site below lists 109 verses in the Quran which condone violence.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

[fast4522]

Look up Quran[7.137]

There too people will refuse to accept what is wrong in their thinking.

[hcap]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_attitudes_towards_terrorism

A common complaint among non-Muslims is that Muslim religious authorities do not condemn terrorist attacks. The complaints often surface in letters to the editors of newspapers, on phone-in radio shows, in Internet mailing lists, forums, etc. A leader of an evangelical Christian para-church group, broadcasting over Sirius Family Net radio, stated that he had done a thorough search on the Internet for a Muslim statement condemning terrorism, without finding a single item.

Actually, there are lots of fatwas and other statements issued which condemn attacks on innocent civilians. Unfortunately, they are largely ignored by newspapers, television news, radio news and other media outlets.

And

http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/

Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Soil by Group, From 1980 to 2005, According to FBI Database

According to this data, there were more Jewish acts of terrorism within the United States than Islamic (7% vs 6%). These radical Jews committed acts of terrorism in the name of their religion. These were not terrorists who happened to be Jews; rather, they were extremist Jews who committed acts of terrorism based on their religious passions, just like Al-Qaeda and company.

Yet notice the disparity in media coverage between the two. It would indeed be very interesting to construct a corresponding pie chart that depicted the level of media coverage of each group. The reason that Muslim apologists and their “leftist dhimmi allies” cannot recall another non-Islamic act of terrorism other than Waco is due to the fact that the media gives menial (if any) coverage to such events. If a terrorist attack does not fit the “Islam is the perennial and existential threat of our times” narrative, it is simply not paid much attention to, which in a circuitous manner reinforces and “proves” the preconceived narrative. It is to such an extent that the average American cannot remember any Jewish or Latino terrorist; why should he when he has never even heard of the Jewish Defense League or the Ejercito Popular Boricua Macheteros? Surely what he does not know does not exist!

[rastajenk]

What, no Tea Partiers in your graph? :p

[hcap]

What, no Tea Partiers in your graph? :pHow come nobody here blamed Kenyan violence on liberals yet?

[JustRalph]

I think most of the values of the church are fantastic and overall think they far outweigh the ones I have personal contentions with like stances on marriage equality, being judgmental, wanting God in school, I'm pro-choice (pro abortion).

I don't even know where to start? Ever heard of the bible? The ones you have a problem with are pretty much covered in the book. I'm pretty much agnostic, but true devout Christians ( of which there are few) have a path laid out for them and it's in writing.

Btw, the I'm against "being judgemental" is pretty much a code for "anything goes". When this country stopped being judgemental the slide downhill started. Moral values at one time meant something. Now we make so many exceptions there is no such thing as moral lines to judge people from.

Everybody has an excuse. Not judging people according to a certain level of morality that at one time provided the basis for the overused axiom "moral compass" has allowed our society to fall to new lows of which are off the scale grossly immoral. What we really need is more judgemental people holding a line on what is right or wrong based on those Christian values of years past.

[fast4522]

Judeo-Christian values are under attack all over the globe.

[elysiantraveller]

And right you are.

The site below lists 109 verses in the Quran which condone violence.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

Re-read the old testament... not to turn this into the Religious thread part 2 but you are really splitting hairs here in your argument.

[Tom]

Judeo-Christians are under attack all over the globe.

Massacre in Pakistan today.
The Islamic Menace is at war with Christianity.
It needs to be dealt with, quickly and decisively.

[Greyfox]

Re-read the old testament... not to turn this into the Religious thread part 2 but you are really splitting hairs here in your argument.

Huh? What argument? I never commented on the atrocities that Christianity undertook while the Holy Roman Empire was ruling. But I am well aware of them.
I'm talking about the relative muteness of Muslims in general with respect to the extremists in their group. I quite well realize there are many many peaceful Muslims.
rastajenk commented about not being sure whether or not religions condone violence. The site I provided was in response to that comment. If we hadn't broken out of Christian Church domination during the dark ages, I'm sure that old testament verses would have been necessary to cite too.

[fast4522]

Massacre in Pakistan today.
The Islamic Menace is at war with Christianity.
It needs to be dealt with, quickly and decisively.

Perhaps our roll is to not continue as the police of the world, when we get a new President and we bring our very best home the economy will roar back. The disappointing thing is policy will remain in place for at least another three years. The very best that we can hope for is that big ears does not get us into WW3. Until then I would suggest to not use the word bitch, and when your tail is convulsing replace that word with witch and add a broom if you like. Get personal with graphics and not words to leave some room for error, we all can admit to some here and there myself included.

[elysiantraveller]

Huh? What argument? I never commented on the atrocities that Christianity undertook while the Holy Roman Empire was ruling. But I am well aware of them.
I'm talking about the relative muteness of Muslims in general with respect to the extremists in their group. I quite well realize there are many many peaceful Muslims.
rastajenk commented about not being sure whether or not religions condone violence. The site I provided was in response to that comment. If we hadn't broken out of Christian Church domination during the dark ages, I'm sure that old testament verses would have been necessary to cite too.

No, what you did was reference violence in a Holy Book as an indictment of a religion... I simply encouraged you to re-read your own.

[thaskalos]

No, what you did was reference violence in a Holy Book as an indictment of a religion... I simply encouraged you to re-read your own.
"Blessed are those who seize your infants and dash them against the rocks."

-- The Holy Bible

[Greyfox]

No, what you did was reference violence in a Holy Book as an indictment of a religion... I simply encouraged you to re-read your own.

Really?
That is a huge premise on your part and it is off the wall.

[elysiantraveller]

Really?
That is a huge premise on your part and it is off the wall.

Yes, really...

And right you are.

The site below lists 109 verses in the Quran which condone violence.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

In case you were wondering there are over 6300 verses in the Quran...

[burnsy]

every time I tell myself I'm never going to post back here, I read a post and comment and inevitably disagree with everyone in the post and then get in trouble LOL

I have no will power!

Whats not to agree with? Muslim is a 4 letter word with the smart people...don't you know the Muslims are out to kill everyone and the Christains never do. Unless you are black and they burn your house or church down, in your sleep. maybe a nice cross for your yard...in the name of God? gee, i wonder who nailed Jesus to the cross? Maybe i read it wrong but wasn't it the the Jews and the Romans?...........who later became the Roman Catholic Church....which was then in bed with every empire that came after that. You know the crusades, the burning of heretics and then later "witches". Yeah, through history the Muslims have caused it all and the Christains are 100% innocent. Your friends that got raped at the parish...its all in their imagination. Gee, you disagree? I wonder why? Now we are responsible for what happens there too? Religion in the right hands is a beautiful thing..........in the wrong hands its the cause of most wars and almost every atrocity and EVERY religion has its whack jobs.

[Greyfox]

Yes, really...



In case you were wondering there are over 6300 verses in the Quran...

Brilliant. :rolleyes:

[JustRalph]

Whats not to agree with? Muslim is a 4 letter word with the smart people...don't you know the Muslims are out to kill everyone and the Christains never do. Unless you are black and they burn your house or church down, in your sleep. maybe a nice cross for your yard...in the name of God? gee, i wonder who nailed Jesus to the cross? Maybe i read it wrong but wasn't it the the Jews and the Romans?...........who later became the Roman Catholic Church....which was then in bed with every empire that came after that. You know the crusades, the burning of heretics and then later "witches". Yeah, through history the Muslims have caused it all and the Christains are 100% innocent. Your friends that got raped at the parish...its all in their imagination. Gee, you disagree? I wonder why? Now we are responsible for what happens there too? Religion in the right hands is a beautiful thing..........in the wrong hands its the cause of most wars and almost every atrocity and EVERY religion has its whack jobs.

And the last time any of those things happen in a major American city? In fact those things are very rare today.

Muslims participate in violence in their own countries all the time. In fact they have exported their violence to several other countries. Including the US in the form of honor killings etc by immigrants. There is no comparison in current or recent history. When Christians start cutting people's heads off in the middle of the street you can bring this crap back for discussion.

Get real......?

[Clocker]

in the wrong hands its the cause of most wars and almost every atrocity

Religions cause war. And guns with big magazines kill people. And big SUVs cause global warming. :rolleyes:

[hcap]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124494788

Waleed El-Ansary, who teaches Islamic studies at the University of South Carolina, says the Quran explicitly condemns religious aggression and the killing of civilians. And it makes the distinction between jihad — legal warfare with the proper rules of engagement — and irjaf, or terrorism.

El-Ansary says that in the past 30 years, there's been a perfect storm that has created a violent strain of Islam. The first is political: frustration at Western intervention in the Muslim world. The second is intellectual: the rise of Wahhabi Islam, a more fundamentalist interpretation of Islam subscribed to by Osama bin Laden. El-Ansary says fundamentalists have distorted Islam for political purposes.

"Basically what they do is they take verses out of context and then use that to justify these egregious actions," he says.

......................................

BTW, The West divied up the ME at the the beginning of the 20th century. At that time there was a race taking place to secure petroleum for switching naval vessels from outdated coal engines. And even before that Britain and primarily the Russians played what was then called the "Great Game" for dominance in the ME and Asia. This struggle continued for resources up until today with the US before WWII getting heavily involved. This struggle for control led to all sorts of abuses of the people of the area. Winston Churchill as colonial secretary and secretary for war and air, authorized the RAF in the 1920s to routinely use mustard gas against rebellious Kurdish tribesmen in Iraq and against Pashtun tribes on British India's northwest frontier.

So much of the violence we see today stems from this blow back. Extremists manipulate their fellow Muslims often using tales of western cruelty. Some of which are exaggerated but the shared history is still a backdrop for common cause.

[horses4courses]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124494788

Waleed El-Ansary, who teaches Islamic studies at the University of South Carolina, says the Quran explicitly condemns religious aggression and the killing of civilians. And it makes the distinction between jihad — legal warfare with the proper rules of engagement — and irjaf, or terrorism.

El-Ansary says that in the past 30 years, there's been a perfect storm that has created a violent strain of Islam. The first is political: frustration at Western intervention in the Muslim world. The second is intellectual: the rise of Wahhabi Islam, a more fundamentalist interpretation of Islam subscribed to by Osama bin Laden. El-Ansary says fundamentalists have distorted Islam for political purposes.

"Basically what they do is they take verses out of context and then use that to justify these egregious actions," he says.

......................................

BTW, The West divied up the ME at the the beginning of the 20th century. At that time there was a race taking place to secure petroleum for switching naval vessels from outdated coal engines. And even before that Britain and primarily the Russians played what was then called the "Great Game" for dominance in the ME and Asia. This struggle continued for resources up until today with the US before WWII getting heavily involved. This struggle for control led to all sorts of abuses of the people of the area. Winston Churchill as colonial secretary and secretary for war and air, authorized the RAF in the 1920s to routinely use mustard gas against rebellious Kurdish tribesmen in Iraq and against Pashtun tribes on British India's northwest frontier.

So much of the violence we see today stems from this blow back. Extremists manipulate their fellow Muslims often using tales of western cruelty. Some of which are exaggerated but the shared history is still a backdrop for common cause.

hcap, do you ever feel like a trigonometry professor in a kindergarten class?

[tucker6]

hcap, do you ever feel like a trigonometry professor in a kindergarten class?
you mean useless.

[hcap]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/apr/19/iraq.arts

Iraq is the product of a lying empire. The British carved it duplicitously from ancient history, thwarted Arab hopes, Ottoman loss, the dunes of Mesopotamia and the mountains of Kurdistan at the end of the first world war. Unsurprisingly, anarchy and insurrection were there from the start.

The British responded with gas attacks by the army in the south, bombing by the fledgling RAF in both north and south. When Iraqi tribes stood up for themselves, we unleashed the flying dogs of war to "police" them. Terror bombing, night bombing, heavy bombers, delayed action bombs (particularly lethal against children) were all developed during raids on mud, stone and reed villages during Britain's League of Nations' mandate. The mandate ended in 1932; the semi-colonial monarchy in 1958. But during the period of direct British rule, Iraq proved a useful testing ground for newly forged weapons of both limited and mass destruction, as well as new techniques for controlling imperial outposts and vassal states.

[PaceAdvantage]

hcap, do you ever feel like a trigonometry professor in a kindergarten class?Yes, we're all just so stupid...so unintelligent...so misinformed.

You guys, on the other hand, are so enlightened...so full of brand new, fresh ideas.

That's why the country as a whole is THRIVING.... :lol:

[rastajenk]

How did those techniques work out?

[hcap]

hcap, do you ever feel like a trigonometry professor in a kindergarten class?
There are a number of recurring themes here on PA off topic Over the 10 or so years I have been here Islamophobia has been VERY popular and tends to provide convenient knee jerking and easy explanations for complex issues. Islamic terrorism has always brought up comments about how Islam is a violent religion. Scapegoating is the word of today here on PA.

[PaceAdvantage]

There are a number of recurring themes here on PA off topic Over the 10 or so years I have been here Islamophobia has been VERY popular and tends to provide convenient knee jerking and easy explanations for complex issues. Islamic terrorism has always brought up comments about how Islam is a violent religion. Scapegoating is the word of today here on PA.Islamophobia....hmmm....is that when people freak out whenever Obama is mistakenly referred to as Muslim?

Is that when Obama's handlers go into overdrive to make sure everyone knows he isn't Muslim?

Is that when it's taken as a serious NEGATIVE if people mistakenly think he is Muslim?

That kind of Islamophobia?

I see what you mean... :rolleyes:

[rastajenk]

Scapegoating? They take credit for it. How in the world is that scapegoating by those of us who see it as it is?

[Greyfox]

Islamic terrorism has always brought up comments about how Islam is a violent religion. Scapegoating is the word of today here on PA.

I SLAM ISLAM...
and other organized religions....with lots of reasons to do so.

[Mike at A+]

Islamic terrorism has always brought up comments about how Islam is a violent religion.
Exactly! So many other people practicing other religions (and non-religions) today are regularly blowing people up and invoking the name of their "god" as they pull the pins on their suicide vests and triggers of their guns. I could just hear it. Jesus Christ sends his regards! Moses says die bastard die! Buddah is great! The Flying Spaghetti Monster condemns you to death!

[hcap]

Scapegoating? They take credit for it. How in the world is that scapegoating by those of us who see it as it is?
Who is they? I have many Muslim friends. None condone terrorism, or claim to be suicide bombers taking credit for extremist acts

It sure sounds to me that many here are blaming all of Islam.

Therefore your scapegoat is the religion itself.

[hcap]

I SLAM ISLAM...
and other organized religions....with lots of reasons to do so.It is the disease of literal interpretation that screws up religion in general.
Most religions have in common at their root the golden rule if you just want to look at it as moral code.

It are the fanatics that cannot think rationally of all religions that I object to, not faith itself.

[Tom]

I SLAM ISLAM...
and other organized religions....with lots of reasons to do so.

The Islamish are not to be messed with!

[HUSKER55]

so the islamist in Syria are nonviolent.......

[fast4522]

Men in makeup know anything really, oh just your avatars right.
Look at the price of oil today, do you think the next pimple that pops will lower the price of crude? We will continue to see the ripple effects of other Bozo's playing with buttons that they should no be. Today's headlines will just roll out of memory as more horrific images encapsulate tomorrows news.

[JustRalph]

Who is they? I have many Muslim friends. None condone terrorism, or claim to be suicide bombers taking credit for extremist acts

It sure sounds to me that many here are blaming all of Islam.

Therefore your scapegoat is the religion itself.

So, you're saying we cannot judge other Muslims based on the actions of a small percentage? Even when we are aware of the violent nature of the common thread among them?

[rastajenk]

I guess I will never figure out how or why liberals continue to protect, or defend, or not challenge the most un-liberal political ideology, in the guise of a religion, that's out there.

[hcap]

I guess I will never figure out how or why liberals continue to protect, or defend, or not challenge the most un-liberal political ideology, in the guise of a religion, that's out there.Maybe you should change your tagline to just

....barbecue? :cool:

[elysiantraveller]

So, you're saying we cannot judge other Muslims based on the actions of a small percentage? Even when we are aware of the violent nature of the common thread among them?

Please elaborate? Violent common thread among all of them?... :confused:

[JustRalph]

Please elaborate? Violent common thread among all of them?... :confused:

The call to Jihad............? The teaching that infidels should be eliminated?

[Tom]

Harboring Bin Laden.....

[woodtoo]

A lot of people just take these suicide bombings too personal,like the one in Peshawar where they blew up a Christen church killing at least 78
mostly woman and children and wounding over 100.This and the latest
rampage in Kenya is merely religious freedom,its so far removed from our lives we should be concerned with more important,closer to home events.
After all its not like its your local church or mall.No,they would never consider doing such things in a democratic country such as the USA.
You have nothing to fear but fear itself,its threads like this that is the root cause of islamiphobia,not the killings themselves.:faint:

[boxcar]

1.
4. Probably not. I don't think he has any relatives in Nairobi and he's not a Muslim.

I'm only answering the questions above because I take great offense to the implications they present.

If you had a better memory, you wouldn't be offended. Don't you know that in an interview with Stephanopoulous once upon a time that Obama made a comment about his "Muslim faith" that Geeorige boy had to correct for him?

I'd say that there is a far better chance that one of the Kenyan terrorists could be a relative of Obama that Trayvon Martin could have been.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

do you think speaking out and marching against the terrorists here in the States is going to stop any extremists over the oceans? Most marches I think have little to zero effect on anything IMO. Even if they are only symbolic.

Martin Luther King must be rolling over in his grave.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

I have no will power!

Oh...you do. You just haven't learned to harvest it. :D

Boxcar

[Greyfox]

its threads like this that is the root cause of islamiphobia,not the killings themselves.:faint:

Bullshit.
None of those murdering bastard terrorist Muslims ever read this thread and if they had a chance they'd kill you too.
Their terrorism has already reached American shores with 911 and have you forgotten Fort Hood?
Europe has been under seige by them for years.
A fear that is rational is not a phobia.
As technology improves, they become even that more dangerous.
These are not your occasional nut bars with a screw loose.
They are Muslim extremists who are willing to die for what they believe is in the name of Allah. They know full well what they are doing and are determined to do it.

[boxcar]

Who is they? I have many Muslim friends. None condone terrorism, or claim to be suicide bombers taking credit for extremist acts

It sure sounds to me that many here are blaming all of Islam.

Therefore your scapegoat is the religion itself.

Oh...this is beyond precious. My reply will be on that other, more appropriate thread.

Boxcar

[FantasticDan]

If you had a better memory, you wouldn't be offended. Don't you know that in an interview with Stephanopoulous once upon a time that Obama made a comment about his "Muslim faith" that Geeorige boy had to correct for him?Between you and Greyfox's original posts, how pathetic is this? Just goes to show how thick-headed your hate is, five years after the comment was already explained as being nothing but an out-of-context attack.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslimfaith.asp

[woodtoo]

A lot of people just take these suicide bombings too personal,like the one in Peshawar where they blew up a Christen church killing at least 78
mostly woman and children and wounding over 100.This and the latest
rampage in Kenya is merely religious freedom,its so far removed from our lives we should be concerned with more important,closer to home events.
After all its not like its your local church or mall.No,they would never consider doing such things in a democratic country such as the USA.
You have nothing to fear but fear itself,its threads like this that is the root cause of islamiphobia,not the killings themselves.:faint:

Sarcasm at its finest.

[Greyfox]

Sarcasm at its finest.

If that was sarcasm, you have my apologies. :ThmbUp:

[Greyfox]

Between you and Greyfox's original posts, how pathetic is this? Just goes to show how thick-headed your hate is, five years after the comment was already explained as being nothing but an out-of-context attack.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslimfaith.asp

There would be no need for that explanation in the link if Obama himself had not made the comments that he did.
Don't blame boxcar and myself for what he is responsible for.
Also, if you check my original post in this thread I did leave room for some doubt by entitling it "Freudian Slip."
The second video that I posted does not give that latitude.

[Tom]

Actions speak louder than explanations.
Obama has been long on 'splainin' and short on doin'.

[Clocker]

Actions speak louder than explanations.

True, and it is quite clear from Obama's actions that he is not a Muslim and he is not a main stream Christian.

Despite his "explanations" to the contrary, the man attended the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago for 20 years, and listened to the teachings of his mentor, The Rev. Jeremiah Wright. The acorn does not fall far from the tree.

The Rev. Jeremiah Wright is recognized as one of the most prominent authorities in the country on Black Liberation Theology. One of the major tenets of Black Liberation Theology that differs from most other faiths is the need for the church to work for social justice in this world, including material equality. This is the theological foundation for Obama's goal of redistribution of wealth. While Islam recognizes the need for charity, I doubt you would do well in some place like Saudi Arabia advocating spreading the wealth around.

Another major tenet is "collective salvation". This is the belief that no one can achieve salvation on his own, and everyone must help and be helped in that goal. Obama is particularly fond of using the term in non-political speeches, such as commencement addresses. In the material world, this translates into major expansions of social programs such as food stamps, ObamaCare, etc. And it translates into his foreign policy as a belief that the United States has a responsibility to help people around the world.

[JustRalph]

Sarcasm at its finest.

You had me going for about half of it......... :ThmbUp: