Slots in PA

[cj]

Its only a matter of time until the subsidies go away, and not just in PA...

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/Gift_horses_Slots_players_send_1_billion_bouquet_t o_Pas_race_industry.html

[johnhannibalsmith]

"It's a disgrace that all those millions are going to billionaire sheiks!!! What about our elderly? What about our schools? How cna the people insist that this law be changed?!"
— KUTCH507

The elderly! The children! Corporate welfare! Sounds like a rallying cry for a vote whore! Hard for me to imagine actually being on the same side as this group of ninnies, but this comment from the article is pretty much the sentiment that a few groups having been licking their collective chops waiting for. Enjoy it while it lasts.

[melman]

On this topic cj we are in complete 100% agreement. What amazes me is that so many people (a huge majority if you believe published polls) still think that ALL of the casino cash is going to fund senior programs and helping with educational programs. To me it's money down a rathole. There is just plain very little interest in racing in this state. I understand and expect little attendance what with easy access to racing without the expense of going to the track. But the huge dropoff in betting and almost total lack of gain vs money spent is staggering.

[melman]

John---Here is the part of the article that I think shows the racing subsidy to be money down a rathole.



more foals mean more jobs, more races, more activity. That measure, however, is less than impressive. In 2004, the year Act 71 passed and started providing millions in breeding incentives each year, the state produced 984 thoroughbred foals. That number rose every year, but by 2012, dipped to below pre-slots levels. Estimates for 2013: 800 foals.

“If this were a Tastykake factory and we put a billion [dollars] into it and didn’t get any more Tastykakes out of it,” said state Rep. John Maher, R-Allegheny, who heads the House Agriculture Committee, “would you think we’d done anything useful?”


Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/news/Gift_horses_Slots_players_send_1_billion_bouquet_t o_Pas_race_industry.html#rSBGqacywUuxp86P.99

[iceknight]

Its only a matter of time until the subsidies go away, and not just in PA...

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/Gift_horses_Slots_players_send_1_billion_bouquet_t o_Pas_race_industry.html And they should go away.. subsidizing things for a long period is never healthy

[wiffleball whizz]

Good it should put them out of business

200k a night from the hard working Pocono downs going to the scum chemists who bring nothing to the table exept a win pool of 2300.....

Pa racing should just shut it down....parx penn and presque isle all rat holes and the doors should be slammed!!

[Pensacola Pete]

When I saw the title, I thought the forum was getting slots.

“Pennsylvania racing was like Double A baseball before Act 71,”

It's still A ball, just with higher salaries.

[Stillriledup]

Good it should put them out of business

200k a night from the hard working Pocono downs going to the scum chemists who bring nothing to the table exept a win pool of 2300.....

Pa racing should just shut it down....parx penn and presque isle all rat holes and the doors should be slammed!!

Not to mention the 'scum chemists' at Parx.

[Stillriledup]

It was just a typical case of thinking the bettors were idiots and that they would gravitate to "large fields" with "higher quality" horses. But, as we all know, when you have a "Cesspool" of slime in the trainers colony and there is basically zero integrity, bettors arent going to flock to bet your product. (not to mention beard trainers)

Those billions could have gone directly into the form of carryovers for bettors, that way, the money would have actually MADE money instead of going into the pockets of the drug cheats.

[JustRalph]

Its only a matter of time until the subsidies go away, and not just in PA...

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/Gift_horses_Slots_players_send_1_billion_bouquet_t o_Pas_race_industry.html

Lots of people on this board predicted that racing would get the rug pulled out from under them when the first of these welfare parties started. I distinctly remember sitting down with BillW and him telling me he thought the subsidies couldn't last more than 5-7 yrs and the tracks would squeal when the slots money dried up. Congrats Bill, you called it........

[Zydeco]

When I saw the title, I thought the forum was getting slots.



It's still A ball, just with higher salaries.

Me too!

[badcompany]

Lots of people on this board predicted that racing would get the rug pulled out from under them when the first of these welfare parties started. I distinctly remember sitting down with BillW and him telling me he thought the subsidies couldn't last more than 5-7 yrs and the tracks would squeal when the slots money dried up. Congrats Bill, you called it........

Had you told me back in 2007, when I posted this, that in 2013, the tracks would still be getting slots welfare, I would've said you were nuts, and, while the article CJ posted is critical of slots welfare, there's still no definite timeframe for when the subsidy will end.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/thinlizzy21/4189659ec5ed7b0adb8e13e64758936b_zps1d3a82ec.jpg

[wiffleball whizz]

Working in casinos all I can say is the slot purses are running on fumes

[JustRalph]

BadC........you called it too.......

I am surprised that after Canada pulled the plug there wasn't a rush to follow suit.

[forced89]

My recollection is that at least in some cases the racing industry share of the slot revenue was consideration for the racing industry agreeing to give up their gambling monopoly (other than lotteries). Thus taking away some or all of their share of the slot revenue is governmental bait and switch.

[Irish Boy]

Plenty of tracks had the opportunity to use their slots revenue (welfare) to improve their product and they didn't take it. I have no sympathy whatsoever.

[Tom]

Improve the product?
Most of them destroyed it!

A fool and his money are soon parted, but until then, they are fun to hang out with!
--------Tickle, 2013

[badcompany]

Improve the product?
Most of them destroyed it!

A fool and his money are soon parted, but until then, they are fun to hang out with!
--------Tickle, 2013

At Saratoga, they had 80k purses for 20k claimers.

If they had any shame, they would've had raffles after every race and given some of that money to the fans.

[Stillriledup]

At Saratoga, they had 80k purses for 20k claimers.

If they had any shame, they would've had raffles after every race and given some of that money to the fans.

Or, seed the pools with "Carryover" money.

[alhattab]

My recollection is that at least in some cases the racing industry share of the slot revenue was consideration for the racing industry agreeing to give up their gambling monopoly (other than lotteries). Thus taking away some or all of their share of the slot revenue is governmental bait and switch.

I've seen this argument made before but I never understood it. The racing industry had a monopoly on gambling only because the states provided the protection that afforded the monopoly. So the state decided that it wanted other gaming- it doesn't owe the racing industry anything. If the state or casinos want to enter into a deal with the property owners to house the gaming in their buildings, that's their business. If the property owners want to share in the fruits of the rent paid by the casinos to the racetrack property owners, that's their business. If the state, for some reason, wants to redirect profits to purses, that's the state's business. But what the state can give, it can take away. And in my view, it should. The entire model is stupid, and the faster the slot money is taken away from racing, the better.

[the little guy]

At Saratoga, they had 80k purses for 20k claimers.




Not exactly.

[Rise Over Run]

Not exactly.

Correct, Allowance Optional $20k claimers actually ran for purses of as much as $92k.

[badcompany]

Correct, Allowance Optional $20k claimers actually ran for purses of as much as $92k.

In all fairness to Andy, this one ran for only 77k :lol:


SARATOGA - September 2, 2013 - Race 2
ALLOWANCE OPTIONAL CLAIMING - For Thoroughbred Three Year Old and Upward (SNW1 X) Claiming Price: $20,000
One And One Eighth Miles On The Dirt - Originally Scheduled For 1 1/16 Miles On Inner turf Track Record: (Lawyer Ron - 1:46.64 - July 28, 2007)
Purse: $77,000
Available Money: $77,000
Value of Race: $77,000 1st $46,200, 2nd $15,400, 3rd $7,700, 4th $3,850, 5th $2,310, 6th $770, 7th $770

[Shemp Howard]

Its only a matter of time until the subsidies go away, and not just in PA...

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/Gift_horses_Slots_players_send_1_billion_bouquet_t o_Pas_race_industry.html


Poor TubbO. He only lived once and died in Grantville.

[Stillriledup]

Tycoon Cat was claimed for 14k and i believe he was in a race that was worth over 70+, but i could be mistaken.

[the little guy]

In all fairness to Andy, this one ran for only 77k :lol:


SARATOGA - September 2, 2013 - Race 2
ALLOWANCE OPTIONAL CLAIMING - For Thoroughbred Three Year Old and Upward (SNW1 X) Claiming Price: $20,000
One And One Eighth Miles On The Dirt - Originally Scheduled For 1 1/16 Miles On Inner turf Track Record: (Lawyer Ron - 1:46.64 - July 28, 2007)
Purse: $77,000
Available Money: $77,000
Value of Race: $77,000 1st $46,200, 2nd $15,400, 3rd $7,700, 4th $3,850, 5th $2,310, 6th $770, 7th $770


I know all about Optional Claiming races. I also understand stretching the truth.

[Robert Fischer]

Nice race today at Philly Parx.

pa derby r11

Will Take Charge and Moreno have a rematch.

Transparent and Romansh are back as well.

A few other interesting contenders round out the field.

I like the :6: Fury Kapcori.


Violence beat him in the stretch of the Cash Call last year. Violence is the Medaglia D'oro Pletcher colt who ORB beat by a 1/2 Length in The Fountain of Youth. A race where Violence hurt himself running huge against the grain.


Fury Kapcori, off until August has been running like he wants the stretch-out. I thought he was probably best in the ElCajon. Hollendorfer is co-owner of this one. He is making the trip because he feels there is some shot at the $600K winner's share.

[Phantombridgejumpe]

scenario today?

The horse you like is not one I'm very familiar with. Is he a stalker?

[Robert Fischer]

scenario today?

The horse you like is not one I'm very familiar with. Is he a stalker?

Moreno is going to go right to the pace again, I figure Fury Kapcori will also be right on the pace. He figures to contend the pace whether numerically or just looking that he's stretching out and has had success.
Speak Logistics is kind of a pace wild card as well.

I would guess the pace would moderate again if Moreno is allowed to set his tempo.

[Valuist]

So what does Parx stand for?

PA- Pennsylvania
RX- drugs

[Phantombridgejumpe]

Will you be here all weak? I mean week?

[wiffleball whizz]

So what does Parx stand for?

PA- Pennsylvania
RX- drugs


Classic

[Tom]

Now that is funny! :lol:

btw, is it true the tellers at PARX all wear ski masks?

[badcompany]

Working in casinos all I can say is the slot purses are running on fumes

Could you elaborate on this?

[wiffleball whizz]

Could you elaborate on this?


Basically tired of seeing all this money go to horses when they are trying to garner up the funds to build hotels.....

Can't tell u how many times in PA working there I heard the phrase "what do the horses bring to the table".

[badcompany]

Basically tired of seeing all this money go to horses when they are trying to garner up the funds to build hotels.....

Can't tell u how many times in PA working there I heard the phrase "what do the horses bring to the table".

They're planning to build a hotel next to the Racino in Saratoga. I'm sure they feel the same way.

[Robert Goren]

They're planning to build a hotel next to the Racino in Saratoga. I'm sure they feel the same way.Especially since, according to Bloodhorse, the attendance and handle there was down this year.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/80460/saratoga-handle-attendance-decline

[badcompany]

Especially since, according to Bloodhorse, the attendance and handle there was down this year.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/80460/saratoga-handle-attendance-decline

The meet was lengthened and the quality of racing declined. Throw in a tough economy, and the idea of paying $200 a night for a motel room becomes less appealing.

[Robert Goren]

The meet was lengthened and the quality of racing declined. Throw in a tough economy, and the idea of paying $200 a night for a motel room becomes less appealing.But the purses were unreal. I don't have a number, but they have to be up from last year.

[badcompany]

But the purses were unreal. I don't have a number, but they have to be up from last year.

Yes, and the weather was great, too.

As I said, the reason for the decline is that it's too expensive a proposition in this economy.

Consider someone coming from Boston for the weekend. Two nights in a motel is about $400 + $100 transportation round trip, and you're out $500 before you get to the track or have something to eat.

[Shemp Howard]

Its only a matter of time until the subsidies go away, and not just in PA...

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/Gift_horses_Slots_players_send_1_billion_bouquet_t o_Pas_race_industry.html

Sunday 9.22.2013's on-tRack handle was $66K.

That's for 9 races, sports fans.

Need I say anything more?

Oh yes.......you only live once!

Whatever that is supposwed to mean.

[taxicab]

Good thread.
I think most have it right in this one.
"Snowball effect" alert....
Politicians are a creepy bunch ( not splitting the atom here ).
When one bunch of elected officials sees how easy and profitable it is to "reallocate" funds away from the tracks and horsemen, others will soon follow suit.
Don't forget....
Politicians love to exchange ideas on how to move money to where they want it.
These ideas have been known to cross state lines on occasion.....;)
It has started in Canada already, but the "snowball effect" isn't quite as strong crossing international borders.
In the same breath, Woodbine is strong enough to handle "funds reallocation" due to the proper way they run their business.
That includes not letting the horsemen get involved in the business operations,and keeping them in line ( major problems elsewhere ).
Pennsylvania might be the first.....
But they won't be the last.

[levinmpa]

Its only a matter of time until the subsidies go away, and not just in PA...

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/Gift_horses_Slots_players_send_1_billion_bouquet_t o_Pas_race_industry.html

I've written about this in similar posts on this board. When the slots revenue came pouring into the various venues, all segments of the sport benefited except the gamblers. Pennsylvania is a joke. Instead of using the slots revenue to lower takeout and grow the handle by attracting gamblers to their product, they did nothing. A trifecta takeout of 30% is an outrage. No serious gambler will play into those pools. I blame track management and the horseman and owners. They took the money with no vision for the future, no plan to grow their product for the possibility that the slots money would dry up. They will get what they deserve.

[RXB]

Woodbine is strong enough to handle "funds reallocation" due to the proper way they run their business.


I agree with much of your post but not this part.

[onefast99]

But the purses were unreal. I don't have a number, but they have to be up from last year.
The NY bred races had an additional 10k added to the purses if they got 9 horses into the gate.