SAR: How'd you do?

[Cholly]

Every year at the end of Saratoga somebody starts this thread; might as well be me who starts it this year.

My 0.80 R.O.I. was punky, but I didn’t lose all that much due to a paucity of wagers made--12 bets the entire meet (not counting $2 action bets). The minimum odds Cholly will take is 10-1, and the same horse who would get 12 or 15-1 at BEL/AQ mostly gets bet down to 8 or less at SAR. It was my experience that a horse who the rest of the year the public assumes is only running as window dressing all of a sudden becomes “well meant” and fodder for a coup just because it’s Saratoga…hardly anything ambulatory got off at double digits.

The lack of wagering was frustrating, and I didn’t manage a personal visit this year. But thanks to the grace of the internet, the 13” laptop, the NYRA talking heads, and Steve Crist’s blog, it was still a bloody good show. Saratoga…glad it came, but really glad it’s gone!!

How’d you do?

[PhantomOnTour]

A good Belmont meet carried over into Saratoga this year...for about two and a half weeks.
The rest wasn't so hot.

I suffer from burnout at Sar around mid meet every year, due to going hard at Belmont and even harder at the Spa with their six day schedule.
Seriously thinking of a mid meet hiatus next year.

Don't have the exact ROI but I will have a losing Sar this year (see my contest picks :D )...unless I nail this closing day P6! :faint:

[OTM Al]

A good first day of the meet. After that, not so much. Probably my worst job at this meet.

[nat1223]

any meet that is very short like saratoga is difficult. the longer meets tend to be beneficial to me as there is more time to develop data. I played Saratoga 4 times all meet. Won 2 days and lost 2 days.

[Stillriledup]

A good Belmont meet carried over into Saratoga this year...for about two and a half weeks.
The rest wasn't so hot.

I suffer from burnout at Sar around mid meet every year, due to going hard at Belmont and even harder at the Spa with their six day schedule.
Seriously thinking of a mid meet hiatus next year.

Don't have the exact ROI but I will have a losing Sar this year (see my contest picks :D )...unless I nail this closing day P6! :faint:

Same here.....started off well and fizzled out in the end. Had a good Travers day, but it was all downhill after that.

And yeah, lets share some of this pick 6 today!

[turninforhome10]

3 straight years showing a positive for both Saratoga and Del Mar. Love them boutique meets, but alas next weekend is back to reality and will once again make donations.

Tracks: Saratoga
# of Bets Win % $1 ROI Wagered Payoff Profit/Loss
69 31.88% +0.39 $451.00 $628.00 $+177.00
Tracks: Del Mar
# of Bets Win % $1 ROI Wagered Payoff Profit/Loss
102 24.51% +0.24 $728.00 $901.30 $+173.30

[Tom]

Won a little bit - mostly thanks to the last weekend, but hardly bet the track anymore.

[JustRalph]

Won a little bit - mostly thanks to the last weekend, but hardly bet the track anymore.

This is the real problem with racing.

Contraction is the only answer.

Up early, down later

[PhantomOnTour]

A good Belmont meet carried over into Saratoga this year...for about two and a half weeks.
The rest wasn't so hot.

I suffer from burnout at Sar around mid meet every year, due to going hard at Belmont and even harder at the Spa with their six day schedule.
Seriously thinking of a mid meet hiatus next year.

Don't have the exact ROI but I will have a losing Sar this year (see my contest picks :D )...unless I nail this closing day P6! :faint:
Errrrrks - draw your brakes brother !

Pardon the redboard, but I just made a very nice win and ex score in the Hopeful by keying my top figure horse on top with a win bet.
That ex is very nice :ThmbUp:

[misscashalot]

worst saratoga meet I ever had
can't wait til next year

[Ocala Mike]

Like others on here, I did all right the first 1/3 of the meet, and poorly the rest of the way. When the turf course plays the way it did, and you have to handicap with the Weather Channel and not the DRF, I'm a goner.

[Ocala Mike]

worst saratoga meet I ever had
can't wait til next year

Love it!

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Stillriledup]

Like others on here, I did all right the first 1/3 of the meet, and poorly the rest of the way. When the turf course plays the way it did, and you have to handicap with the Weather Channel and not the DRF, I'm a goner.

No doubt. "Notes" off replays are useless if the horse who gets the lead wins no matter what....when the track has a strong bias, its tough sledding.

[Irish Boy]

Best meet I've ever had at any track. Really sad to see it end.

[FantasticDan]

I hit a few 10/1 and 12/1 types with modest win bets, but mostly I just lost and lost and lost.

In other words, a typical meet. :p

[Stillriledup]

I hit a few 10/1 and 12/1 types with modest win bets, but mostly I just lost and lost and lost.

In other words, a typical meet. :p

My mistake was not making large(r) win bets on longshot winners i had and the 2nd mistake was not pulling the plug after Travers day. The track changed to this ridiculous bias, especially on the turf and it turned races, as Tom says "into 2 furlong affairs" and yet here i was, like a dope, with an ego, betting on my "notes" and watching those notes just get caught up in this bizarre bias.

[BMustang]

I thought that this was a very frustrating meet. It is where I do the most homework, read the previews, listen to the seminars, read the blogs, watch replays, make copious notes and normally do quite well. But,...not this year. I make mostly horizontal plays and found it extremely frustrating trying to string winners together, blowing many opportunities by not being able to finish a Pick-3/Pick 4.

This year there were times when I thought I might be better off putting my $$$ into a slot machine - JK. I'm not a fan of multi-condition races, and I think that is my primary problem. I have trouble discerning the true class of the horses competing in the same race. I wish DRF would add the actual purse of the past performance race next to the condition, as BRISnet does on the downscale "program."
I get frustrated with the abysmal New York gate crew who must be political appointees, but somehow manage to keep their jobs.
I also feel that too many horses were "put over" this year. I.E., the Contessa first time starters on Friday. Knowledgable players know what I'm talking about.
At any rate Saratoga is Saratoga, and is my favorite meet of the year.
Thanks for the memories - good and bad.

[Stillriledup]

I thought that this was a very frustrating meet. It is where I do the most homework, read the previews, listen to the seminars, read the blogs, watch replays, make copious notes and normally do quite well. But,...not this year. I make mostly horizontal plays and found it extremely frustrating trying to string winners together, blowing many opportunities by not being able to finish a Pick-3/Pick 4.

This year there were times when I thought I might be better off putting my $$$ into a slot machine - JK. I'm not a fan of multi-condition races, and I think that is my primary problem. I have trouble discerning the true class of the horses competing in the same race. I wish DRF would add the actual purse of the past performance race next to the condition, as BRISnet does on the downscale "program."
I get frustrated with the abysmal New York gate crew who must be political appointees, but somehow manage to keep their jobs.
I also feel that too many horses were "put over" this year. I.E., the Contessa first time starters on Friday. Knowledgable players know what I'm talking about.
At any rate Saratoga is Saratoga, and is my favorite meet of the year.
Thanks for the memories - good and bad.

You think these gate guys are bad now, just watch some Inner track races this upcoming winter.

I'm not going to mention any names for obvious reasons, but i think there were a lot of riders "mailing in" rides.....some of the 'mail jobs' seemed to have a common denominator. Hopefully the right people cashed in knowing which jocks were "going dead" because i certainly wasnt privy to that info.

But, on the bright side, those "dead" horses will be running at Belmont and their PP lines won't be so fancy, i have the note, i know who went dead, i'll be ready.

[1st time lasix]

ever year i can't wait for thw spa to open.... every year i pray for it to end! :bang:

[Stillriledup]

ever year i can't wait for thw spa to open.... every year i pray for it to end! :bang:

I think what throws a monkey wrench into the spa is too many "non Belmont" shippers show up as well as too many unraced prospects. If you follow Belmont and the NYRA circuit, its not going to do you a heck of a lot of good in over half the races. Half the time (or more) you'll have to deal with a Churchill shipper, a gulfstream shipper who races in march and april and was freshened, a 2 yo who has never raced or some other "shipper" who is trying to win at the Spa just to say they did.

Belmont will bring back a little more normalcy for those who don't want to have to deal with a guessing game on shippers.

[senortout]

I had fun, bet show only, bet a ton of races, lost little.

[senortout]

about the same

[raybo]

Did ok at Sar (last 2 days hurt me a bit, off tracks and lots of scratches, basically changes in the environment at the track), not great compared to other tracks.

AllData RS Black Box, top pick only, at 1/1 odds or higher:

Played 111 races
102 minimum odds win bets placed
21.57% hit rate
1.23 ROI

[phattty]

A profitable year up to the spa is now seriously in the crapper


Wait til next year




My favorite Spa trainer did worse than I
Prolly y I did so bad

[Jingle]

1st time in 3 years I lost money. I bet Win only and exactas. Most of the time I'm able to cover expenses but not this year. Oh well, goes with the turf.

[speed]

Hold on....Saratoga ran already?.....I gotta quit drinking.

[Longshot6977]

I think what throws a monkey wrench into the spa is too many "non Belmont" shippers show up as well as too many unraced prospects. If you follow Belmont and the NYRA circuit, its not going to do you a heck of a lot of good in over half the races. Half the time (or more) you'll have to deal with a Churchill shipper, a gulfstream shipper who races in march and april and was freshened, a 2 yo who has never raced or some other "shipper" who is trying to win at the Spa just to say they did.

Belmont will bring back a little more normalcy for those who don't want to have to deal with a guessing game on shippers.

But this is part of what makes the SPA a 'graveyard of favorites' with some high prices, right?

[raybo]

But this is part of what makes the SPA a 'graveyard of favorites' with some high prices, right?

That is correct. Those shippers are where the profits are. If you cannot handle them, you will have trouble at this track.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Did ok at Sar (last 2 days hurt me a bit, off tracks and lots of scratches, basically changes in the environment at the track), not great compared to other tracks.

AllData RS Black Box, top pick only, at 1/1 odds or higher:

Played 111 races
102 minimum odds win bets placed
21.57% hit rate
1.23 ROI

ROI of 1.23 is phenomenal - you're higher at other tracks?

[raybo]

ROI of 1.23 is phenomenal - you're higher at other tracks?

Absolutely! Any track that tests under 1.20 is usually a track that I will not play. Tracks like OP and DeD run about 1.50 or higher, with several others in the 1.30 to 1.40 range. I concentrate my efforts at tracks that have higher than average win payouts, I use "Rick's Longshots Chart" to determine which tracks are likely to produce good profits.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Absolutely! Any track that tests under 1.20 is usually a track that I will not play. Tracks like OP and DeD run about 1.50 or higher, with several others in the 1.30 to 1.40 range. I concentrate my efforts at tracks that have higher than average win payouts, I use "Rick's Longshots Chart" to determine which tracks are likely to produce good profits.

That's impressive.

[burnsy]

A good Belmont meet carried over into Saratoga this year...for about two and a half weeks.
The rest wasn't so hot.


Seriously thinking of a mid meet hiatus next year.

:faint:

I take one every year, usually the second week i go camping just to miss 6 days of racing. After a while its like work and a grind but i love it. But with almost 7 weeks of racing i'm too old and not as healthy as i once was. The first week i went 4 out 5 days without cashing a ticket but overall i had a good meet and made money. The rest for 1 week allowed me to regroup and focus. As for the turf bias, once i smell it, i'm all over it and adjust my turf handicapping. This is something i warned people about last year when i was first posting here. Every year there will be a "dry run" up here and that course is "rock". In the races where the horses in front get a couple lengths ahead with moderate fractions.....its over. On the weekdays when people are not paying close attention, it works even better......i crushed 4 Mondays in a row up until yesterday. Of course yesterday there was no grass racing, i should of known.

[JustRalph]

Smells like Keeneland

I stopped betting there a few years back

[Valuist]

I did well betting verticals, the exactas and tris. Did poorly betting multirace. Also did much better on the grass races than on the dirt.

[pondman]

Bet the 2 year olds of the top 6 owners in non-state maidens and BC preps.
Bet a couple Allowance races-- horses dropping back from stakes. Passed on everything else including Travers and Bishops (couldn't get odds but would have lost both of those.)

Netted + 8k, the majority from allowance races. ROI was 4.2.

[cj]

Bet the 2 year olds of the top 6 owners in non-state maidens and BC preps.
Bet a couple Allowance races-- horses dropping back from stakes. Passed on everything else including Travers and Bishops (couldn't get odds but would have lost both of those.)

Netted + 8k, the majority from allowance races. ROI was 4.2.

I know I'm not surprised.

[speed]

I know I'm not surprised.
Kinda thought his ROI would be a bit stronger though.

[iceknight]

I didnt do well at 'Toga.. except for the Travers race itself. Maybe that's because I tried handicapping Toga.. :lol:

But Del Mar was more than kind to me..so I am happy.

[Ocala Mike]

Here are my "wagering stats" in the season-long Del Mar handicapping contest, about to conclude tomorrow.

Wagering Stats
Win Place Show Total
# Wagers 36 0 0 36
# Cashes 5 0 0 5
Wagers $3600.00 $0.00 $0.00 $3600.00
Winnings $3760.00 $0.00 $0.00 $3760.00
Net $160.00 $0.00 $0.00 $160.00

I play this contest "Dave Kingman" style, either a home run or a K. 36 $100 win bets, with only 5 cashes, but the average price was over $15.00. Missed 3-4 bombs early in the contest that ran 2nd or 3rd.

The above probably mirrors my "actual" play at Del Mar for the season, a little more conservative, but about a break-even.

[Helles]

3.65% loss, all on win bets.

[BIG49010]

Did ok for the early part, then the 6 days a week starts to wear on me, and I just stopped the last 2 weeks burnt out.

[TheEdge07]

I started the
TOO MUCH SPA THREAD....


ENOUGH SAID..

DEL MAR WON A LITTLE


WAITING ON KEENLAND.

[jefftune]

I really look forward to Saratoga - focus on this meet more than any other thoroughbred meet. Although I didn't keep betting records for Saratoga, I finished ahead for the meet thanks to a couple nice doubles with Jack Fisher-trained longshots. Also hit a 22-1 shot along the way. Turf races are usually the key for my wins. I did get DQ'd out of a pick 4 opening week, grrr. Glad it's over though (well sort of), I can now relax a bit as I put in more handicapping time than usual with Saratoga races.

-Jeff Tune
www.angelfire.com/pa/tune

[raybo]

I really look forward to Saratoga - focus on this meet more than any other thoroughbred meet. Although I didn't keep betting records for Saratoga, I finished ahead for the meet thanks to a couple nice doubles with Jack Fisher-trained longshots. Also hit a 22-1 shot along the way. Turf races are usually the key for my wins. I did get DQ'd out of a pick 4 opening week, grrr. Glad it's over though (well sort of), I can now relax a bit as I put in more handicapping time than usual with Saratoga races.

-Jeff Tune
www.angelfire.com/pa/tune

Yeah, Saratoga is not a track to mess around with. If you don't do well with shippers, maidens/2yos, turf races, etc., you will probably have a tough time there, unless you just want to bet one or two races per day anyway. Most players want to play them all, and "Toga" will eat you up if you can't handle all those types of races well.

Most of these "boutique" meets are like that, they try to card everything and cram them all into a short meet, which makes many of the races very hard to deal with, if your method isn't set up to deal with them.

[Wickel]

Yeah, Saratoga is not a track to mess around with. If you don't do well with shippers, maidens/2yos, turf races, etc., you will probably have a tough time there, unless you just want to bet one or two races per day anyway. Most players want to play them all, and "Toga" will eat you up if you can't handle all those types of races well.

Most of these "boutique" meets are like that, they try to card everything and cram them all into a short meet, which makes many of the races very hard to deal with, if your method isn't set up to deal with them.

I did fairly well with 2-year-old races, but overall The Big 'Toga ate me up. Too many turf races for my liking, although I did save face by jumping on the George Weaver bandwagon. He was red-hot with 3 year olds routing. I just couldn't bring myself to bet shippers from the lesser tracks, unless it was a big barn like Asmussen, Motion or Pletcher. Keeneland is even tougher for me. I'll be glad to get back to the fall and winter meets at Belmont, Hollywood and Aqueduct. And, of course, there's Old Reliable Charles Town.

[raybo]

I did fairly well with 2-year-old races, but overall The Big 'Toga ate me up. Too many turf races for my liking, although I did save face by jumping on the George Weaver bandwagon. He was red-hot with 3 year olds routing. I just couldn't bring myself to bet shippers from the lesser tracks, unless it was a big barn like Asmussen, Motion or Pletcher. Keeneland is even tougher for me. I'll be glad to get back to the fall and winter meets at Belmont, Hollywood and Aqueduct. And, of course, there's Old Reliable Charles Town.

I've found that my class and distance ratings work very well for turf races, at almost any track.

[Segwin]

How’d you do?

Not good.

[Stillriledup]

Here's a question(s) about the recently concluded Saratoga meet.

1) Did you see the "Sucker money" or the "padding" at this meet? The pools were higher at Saratoga than they were at Belmont...which means that there was a percentage of money that didnt "follow" Belmont at all (i'm assuming that there were new players and not all the same players just increasing their bets) I have to admit, i didnt really see any difference between this meet and the previous meet at Belmont. Did you?

2) Saratoga vs Belmont. Belmont wraps up and the Spa starts and if you have some notes and opinions from Belmont, you feel that you're just going from one meet to the next...but, what happens at the Spa that you don't have to deal with at Belmont is a) Larger fields for the most part b) many more shippers c) many more unraced prospects.

3) Other than prestige, and summer fun, and excitement and the "place to be" what reason would you, or me, have to bet Saratoga, which is incredibly exhausting, large fields 6 days a week, etc. In other words, if you have an edge at Belmont and you do well, what would be the reason to put your bankroll in "harms way" by betting the Spa meet unless you somehow feel there's a bigger edge for you at the Spa than there is at Belmont (or, even Big A)?

How many of you do well (hold your own) at Belmont feel that Saratoga is as easy or easier?

The logic that i personally use is that there's enough casual money in the pools at the Spa that would make the Spa more lucrative, but i havent found that to be the case....the "unknowns" seem to cancel out, for me anyway, the extra "padding" the pools get from the casual money.

[lamboguy]

with all the beautiful weather, great races, large fields, and NYRA handicappers that had another strong meet, there was a decline in attendance and a 2 % drop in handle according to bloodhorse.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/80460/saratoga-handle-attendance-decline?source=rss


in HONG KONG, a place that allow's wagering on sports and i am told plenty of days with bad weather, the attendance rose and the handle improved by a whopping 12%. the lottery's that they have there also rose a less of a rate of improvement.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/80463/record-racing-handle-at-hong-kong-jockey-club?source=rss

somebody is doing something right in HONG KONG. i wonder if its my buddy Bill Nader has anything to do with it?

[iceknight]

HONG KONG = VET REPORTS.

US Racing = We love our individual freedoms, there should be no uniform rules, blah blah blah (but when it comes to businesses combining to form oligopolies or one entity owning most tracks - then single source control is not a problem).

[Stillriledup]

HONG KONG = VET REPORTS.

US Racing = We love our individual freedoms, there should be no uniform rules, blah blah blah (but when it comes to businesses combining to form oligopolies or one entity owning most tracks - then single source control is not a problem).

Its a secret society.....tracks permit horsemen to NOT have to share medical reports, medical procedures, etc, even though bettors betting lives depend on having this information as you're betting against people who have it. If a vet or trainer knows a horse got a certain procedure (lets say, for example, to correct breathing) they know, and you're guessing. They know and since its not like the stock market where insider trading is illegal, you have people gambling on the races with information that's not available to everyone.

[pondman]

I know I'm not surprised.

Spot playing... without ratings. Don't even look at the performance.

[PaceAdvantage]

Spot playing... without ratings.Have you tried every rating to know you can dismiss all of them as useless to you?

[pondman]

Have you tried every rating to know you can dismiss all of them as useless to you?

Never claimed all ratings are useless. Just not with the horses and races I play. I'm not the 1st to say throw out performances. But if you were in allowance races, with horses dropping into allowance races, I stole your money. I'll be back next year at Saratoga, to take more of your money. You don't have to worry about me at Belmont. Because my wheelbarrow is rolling west for big bets.

[cj]

Never claimed all ratings are useless. Just not with the horses and races I play. I'm not the 1st to say throw out performances. But if you were in allowance races, with horses dropping into allowance races, I stole your money. I'll be back next year at Saratoga, to take more of your money. You don't have to worry about me at Belmont. Because my wheelbarrow is rolling west for big bets.

Yes, we hear this from you often. Personally, I think you are full of it. I remember your run in selections, it wasn't pretty. Who was the best two year old in the country again before the Delmar Futurity?

You want to talk the talk, then do some walking first. Your act is a tired one on the internet.

[thaskalos]

Don't even look at the performance.

Truer words were never spoken... :rolleyes:

[thaskalos]

Never claimed all ratings are useless. Just not with the horses and races I play. I'm not the 1st to say throw out performances. But if you were in allowance races, with horses dropping into allowance races, I stole your money. I'll be back next year at Saratoga, to take more of your money. You don't have to worry about me at Belmont. Because my wheelbarrow is rolling west for big bets.
You keep on saying that you are filling up big bags with profits from betting exclusively on horses at odds of 5-1 or more...but all the horses that I have seen you release on this board have either lost...or they've paid in the neighborhood of $6.

Have I been careless in missing all the longshots winners?

[pondman]

Yes, we hear this from you often. Personally, I think you are full of it. I remember your run in selections, it wasn't pretty. Who was the best two year old in the country again before the Delmar Futurity?

You want to talk the talk, then do some walking first. Your act is a tired one on the internet.

Yep. You got me on that 1.

How about the other 50 comments I've made at PM.

[pondman]

You keep on saying that you are filling up big bags with profits from betting exclusively on horses at odds of 5-1 or more...but all the horses that I have seen you release on this board have either lost...or they've paid in the neighborhood of $6.

Have I been careless in missing all the longshots winners?

What selections? Haven't bet a horse at under 5-1 in years.

Saratoga? What selections have I made at Saratoga.

I've made comments that suggested Kidcapper add Darley to his maiden tris, just as I'd suggest betting Reddam's horses at Delmar as singles. I've made comments that suggest betting double digit horses shipping soft into allowance races. I like Orb to make a few more million, but he's short. Like the Godolphin horse in the Travers, that cost me. Liked a speedball in the kings but he's short. What about it?


So what's that as an ROI-- about 7. Didn't do quite that good.

[cj]

Yep. You got me on that 1.

How about the other 50 comments I've made at PM.

Am I supposed to know what comments you've made at PM? What is PM? Private Message?

Your selections that all could see were not good.

[thaskalos]

What selections? Haven't bet a horse at under 5-1 in years.

Saratoga? What selections have I made at Saratoga.

I've made comments that suggested Kidcapper add Darley to his maiden tris, just as I'd suggest betting Reddam's horses at Delmar as singles. I've made comments that suggest betting double digit horses shipping soft into allowance races. I like Orb to make a few more million, but he's short. Like the Godolphin horse in the Travers, that cost me. Liked a speedball in the kings but he's short. What about it?


So what's that as an ROI-- about 7. Didn't do quite that good.

Pondman,

You've stated repeatedly that you maintain a 40% winning percentage while confining your wagers to horses at odds of 5-1 or higher. Not at AVERAGE ODDS of 5-1, mind you (which in itself would be unbelievable)...but at MINIMUM odds of 5-1...which is unbelievable x 3.

[pondman]

Pondman,

You've stated repeatedly that you maintain a 40% winning percentage while confining your wagers to horses at odds of 5-1 or higher. Not at AVERAGE ODDS of 5-1, mind you (which in itself would be unbelievable)...but at MINIMUM odds of 5-1...which is unbelievable x 3.

40%? I can do at least 40%. I've also maintained, I'm a spot player. I also maintained Saratogo isn't something I do. Nor Delmar. Did I bet Darley and Reddam. Yep. Did I bet stake horses dropping into Saratago. Yep. I'm not sure of your point. Would I go against CJ and bet Reddam at Delmar. Yep. Do you actually know what the ROI you are talking about on 2 year old at Satatogo or Delmar?

I'm responding becatuse PA vendors go the entire meet
without betting a Darley or a Reddam horse. What, does a person have to be moderately retarded to participate?

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by pondman
Never claimed all ratings are useless. Just not with the horses and races I play. I'm not the 1st to say throw out performances. But if you were in allowance races, with horses dropping into allowance races, I stole your money. I'll be back next year at Saratoga, to take more of your money. You don't have to worry about me at Belmont. Because my wheelbarrow is rolling west for big bets.

The racing gods are watching. :D

[rastajenk]

And frowning.

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm responding becatuse PA vendors go the entire meet
without betting a Darley or a Reddam horse. What, does a person have to be moderately retarded to participate?What is with it with you guys (and by you guys, I mean you and guys like you) who have this giant chip on their shoulder concerning vendors?

I never understood it and I never will. On the one hand, you clearly consider yourself to be superior to them...yet you will reference them in posts as if there is something about them that constantly gnaws at you...

Is it anger? Jealousy? Do you feel they get some sort of glory that should be meant for someone like you?

School me on what compels you to mention "vendors" in your reply.

[Tom]

See, the thing is, CJ and Doug post their thoughts BEFORE the race, and not vaugley - like they use a date, a race number, a name.....like REAL winners have a habbit of doing.

[Grits]

I'm responding becatuse PA vendors go the entire meet
without betting a Darley or a Reddam horse. What, does a person have to be moderately retarded to participate?

You and your unfortunate posts equal the exact sum of nothing. You do not warrant anyone's respect. Anyone's interest, or attention.

YOU ARE A NOTHING. The consummate nothing. As is your question presented in this post. Others here have reminded you, as well, that you are a liar.

If IQs were assigned according to posting intelligence, my son's would rank far, far higher than your own.

[iceknight]

Yes, we hear this from you often. Personally, I think you are full of it. I remember your run in selections, it wasn't pretty. Who was the best two year old in the country again before the Delmar Futurity?

You want to talk the talk, then do some walking first. Your act is a tired one on the internet. I am a lot younger than you guys, both in 'capping/betting wisdom as well as age.. but if (and it is true after I followed it for a bit) pondman's talk is a lot of hot air and his selections don't pan well... how about just ignoring him.

his chatter on Orb and Goldencents was the most bothersome.. and we are talking horses that have been running at 4-1 or lower most of the time.

of course, if you cannot resist jousting with his tall claims... I will get some popcorn and watch :lol:

[speed]

Iof course, if you cannot resist jousting with his tall claims... I will get some popcorn and watch :lol:
Now you're getting the hang of it. :D

[pondman]

his chatter on Orb and Goldencents was the most bothersome.. and we are talking horses that have been running at 4-1 or lower most of the time.



As I remember correctly someone else asked about Goldencents...

Let me refresh your memory. I thought he would suck in the KD. I thought his jockey wasn't A-1. I also think they ducked the big boys. I gave the opinion that he would be there at the half and had enough to catch older horses at the wire.

Orb?

He's the leading 3 year old. Don't be surprised if he goes up against older and wins. Don't think a statement like that is all that bothersome.

[pondman]

I am a lot younger than you guys, both in 'capping/betting wisdom as well as age.. but if (and it is true after I followed it for a bit) pondman's talk is a lot of hot air and his selections don't pan well... how about just ignoring him.

I've been fairly open about the type of horses I played at Saratoga. They were out in the open in threads at double digits. Drops from stakes into allowance.

I'm not sure of the issue?

[pondman]

You and your unfortunate posts equal the exact sum of nothing. You do not warrant anyone's respect. Anyone's interest, or attention.

YOU ARE A NOTHING. The consummate nothing. As is your question presented in this post. Others here have reminded you, as well, that you are a liar.

If IQs were assigned according to posting intelligence, my son's would rank far, far higher than your own.

You've said this all before...

And it leads to my point. I'm using the academic level of a 4th grader and still taking your money.

Liar? Can you be specific?

[TheEdge07]

You've said this all before...

And it leads to my point. I'm using the academic level of a 4th grader and still taking your money.

Liar? Can you be specific?

Show some respect..

[pondman]

School me on what compels you to mention "vendors" in your reply.

This is probably the only comment I wish to rescind. It could be construed because of CJs comments that I was referring to him. My point wasn't to disparage him personally or his product. I'm sorry to all for that.

[pondman]

I never understood it and I never will. On the one hand, you clearly consider yourself to be superior to them...yet you will reference them in posts as if there is something about them that constantly gnaws at you...

.

What?

I've come on to your site (actually bought several things from several vendors) stated that I made money at Saratoga on a few spot plays without ratings.

As expected you've brought out your minions. Where's the guy who claims to shovel manure at Keenland? I'd expect him to show up by now.

If a player isn't making money, then yeah, I'm a better player. Can't say it any clear than that. Are there people who make millions in this game? Yeah. I'm I one of those. Not yet.

[cj]

I am a lot younger than you guys, both in 'capping/betting wisdom as well as age.. but if (and it is true after I followed it for a bit) pondman's talk is a lot of hot air and his selections don't pan well... how about just ignoring him.

his chatter on Orb and Goldencents was the most bothersome.. and we are talking horses that have been running at 4-1 or lower most of the time.

of course, if you cannot resist jousting with his tall claims... I will get some popcorn and watch :lol:

The reason I don't just ignore it is simple. You have no idea how many of his BS posts get deleted. I don't look for his BS, but when I see it, ZAP, gone. You would think after a while he would take the hint. But no, he'd rather be a troll. So from time to time I'll try to be blunt.

[iceknight]

What?

I've come on to your site (actually bought several things from several vendors) stated that I made money at Saratoga on a few spot plays without ratings.

As expected you've brought out your minions. Where's the guy who claims to shovel manure at Keenland? I'd expect him to show up by now.

If a player isn't making money, then yeah, I'm a better player. Can't say it any clear than that. Are there people who make millions in this game? Yeah. I'm I one of those. Not yet. Really? If you speak like that people are bound to call you out.

At least you are honest when you say that you think at the level of a 4th grader. :lol:

[cj]

If a player isn't making money, then yeah, I'm a better player. Can't say it any clear than that. Are there people who make millions in this game? Yeah. I'm I one of those. Not yet.

Your selections and your opinions are laughable, but not as laughable as your claims of brilliance with nothing to back it up but your own keyboard.

[PaceAdvantage]

What?

I've come on to your site (actually bought several things from several vendors) stated that I made money at Saratoga on a few spot plays without ratings.

As expected you've brought out your minions. Where's the guy who claims to shovel manure at Keenland? I'd expect him to show up by now.

If a player isn't making money, then yeah, I'm a better player. Can't say it any clear than that. Are there people who make millions in this game? Yeah. I'm I one of those. Not yet.What minions? I've been living about as solitary existence on here as ever, in case you haven't noticed.

And just like "vendors," you have some chip on your shoulder about supposed "minions." Did it ever occur to you that people might simply disagree with you, and it has nothing to do with some sort of conspiracy of "minions."

Sheesh...

[JustRalph]

I was updating my database tonight and noticed that at Belmont today my program flagged an entry in the 9th today

" AS WELL :12: "

Shortly after the Saratoga meet I wrote a UDM flagging horses that had run at TOGA during the speed bias the last few weeks. This horse went off under 2-1 at Saratoga on the Turf Aug 24th. Never had a chance on that course.

Cruised by the field from last today in the 9th and paid a nice price.

Odds 6.10-1
WON 14.20 8.10 4.90

Of course I didn't bet it.......but it relates to some posts in this thread

Replay
http://www.nyra.com/belmont/videos/20131002/9/

[Stillriledup]

I was updating my database tonight and noticed that at Belmont today my program flagged an entry in the 9th today

" AS WELL :12: "

Shortly after the Saratoga meet I wrote a UDM flagging horses that had run at TOGA during the speed bias the last few weeks. This horse went off under 2-1 at Saratoga on the Turf Aug 24th. Never had a chance on that course.

Cruised by the field from last today in the 9th and paid a nice price.

Odds 6.10-1
WON 14.20 8.10 4.90

Of course I didn't bet it.......but it relates to some posts in this thread

Replay
http://www.nyra.com/belmont/videos/20131002/9/

The only problem here was that the 5 horse Chow Fun was also coming out of that same race while making a nice strong move vs the bias. CF was probably more visually impressive than As Well, but CF washed out badly on the track and that might have been why she ran a subpar race.

[JustRalph]

The only problem here was that the 5 horse Chow Fun was also coming out of that same race while making a nice strong move vs the bias. CF was probably more visually impressive than As Well, but CF washed out badly on the track and that might have been why she ran a subpar race.

I went over and watched the race on NYRA web.

I agree it was visually more impressive, but for some reason today my software rated Chow 6th best in the field ? It rated :12: As Well, as 2nd best in the field. Chow finished 7th and jcapper didn't like that horse at all.

In Equisim the horses were .5L apart in the simulation with :12: As Well beating Chow. Equisim simulator actually picked the :2: as the winner over the :12: by .5L :2: finished fourth well beaten by :12:

I'm using BRIS data. The one area that the :12: was head and shoulders above the rest was the Jcapper Quality rating. "qrating" I find it to be theeee most important factor in Jcapper. As you can tell I am very software dependant. Just me.............it's who I am.........

I also have a UDM that flags horses that are having trouble breaking their maiden. It flagged chow as being one of those horses. Only time will tell on that.

I missed out on the 11.00 dollar winner in the 1st race too. My stuff loved that Jacobsen Horse as an overwhelming easy winner.