Young people today not smart enough to handicap

[tzipi]

I see this so many times in threads about the state of racing. Even today's thread "Reasons for decline in racing."

Sometimes posts get lost in threads which is normal on any board but I'll expand one to here today if I may. "Young people are not smart enough today." "Young people can not crunch numbers like older people, therefore they can not handicap", "young people have no attention span" etc, etc.

Well I will defend myself and others. More and more younger people are running companies today. Young people are the ones starting up these brilliant, intelligent tech companies, younger people today are the ones crunching tons of numbers to create websites and programs every day. 12 yr olds and up are starting up websites and programs from scratch which is not rocket science if you're doing a small one but it's also not the easiest thing ever and takes work with numbers, technology, etc the deeper the program gets. It also takes a lot of patience. Today's High School computer classes and college classes are way more advanced than any DRF read or handicapping a few numbers.
When did reading a post parade become rocket science? It's not that hard at all to read or handicap. Knocking younger people every time as an excuse to decline, is ridiculous. I myself picked up on how to handicap and read a DRF in a about a week as a little kid. My friends learned in a couple of days doing the races. Younger people are way more advanced today than ever before. I mean just look around the internet, read tech articles and who are the ones of every start up websites, tech companies, etc. Very young people. My 14 yr old cousin wrote a website program from scratch for fantasy baseball that has a solid following.

Bottom line is young people are not dumb today, do not all just play XBox, Playstation, etc. By the way the young people writing and creating those crazy computer games today is pretty insane intelligent stuff. Talk about number crunching and difficulty. I think people should look in other places to blame than, "well racing in in decline because young people are not smart enough to handicap today". They, I and whoever else are not dumb and the companies, technology, web programs started by young people other games with show that. By the way when I walk through a casino, I see them more empty than ever. Not many younger people as there once was in my opinion. Younger people are more into investing, saving and putting money in solid backings today. Plus when I do see younger people, I see them on harder games where you have to think. I see the older people on the slot machines just pulling a slot arm.

Maybe younger people play other games with lower takeout also. Maybe it's easier to win $10,000 on a lopsided football game than $10,000 in even a year of betting. A LOT more sports and games to bet on today than back in racing's big days. That's a big thing too. Maybe they see the drugs in the sport every time in the papers and trainers suspended and say why put my money in that? Maybe they want more in return for being a customer.

I love the game and the thrill and always will. I hope racing gets back on top and is a success again and we need every generation to pitch in but knocking young people today and a generation who's proven their ability, is not the way to go or right. We should all work together on the real problems and get people(everyone young and old) to play a game and a return that's attractive. :)

[CincyHorseplayer]

Young people can't handicap their way out of a paper bag and I totally love your braggadocio,put your money into the window as fast as humanly possible so I can take it.This isn't a verbal sport.Shut the hole in your face and tell me how smart you are with your money.I dare you!:cool:

[tzipi]

Young people can't handicap their way out of a paper bag and I totally love your braggadocio,put your money into the window as fast as humanly possible so I can take it.This isn't a verbal sport.Shut the hole in your face and tell me how smart you are with your money.I dare you!:cool:

Shut my hole? C'mon. Did I knock older people or any generation? Did I say racing is bad? Did I knock anyone here? I just said knocking younger people as too dumb to add numbers up is not the answer and it's not true in my opinion. It's a message board. I think there are other reasons than this one that comes up a lot. That's all.
Where was I bragging? I never said I was rich or brilliant at the game or that I'm one of the tech kids, guys, or a smart older guy, etc. Just said I think younger people are not that dumb today from the news and that it's not the problem. That's all. Every generation is smart and has built what we have. But then again every generation knocks the one after it as dumb. Goes on and on I guess :D

"Shut your hole and put your money as fast as you can in the window"? I do OK thanks. Anyway, says a lot but hey message boards are for debates, opinions and thoughts. ;)

[Stillriledup]

I only feel as smart as my last selection/bet.

Right now, i'm not feeling that smart. :(

[tzipi]

I only feel as smart as my last selection/bet.

Right now, i'm not feeling that smart. :(

That is very true Still. Feel the same way. :D

[CincyHorseplayer]

Shut my hole? C'mon. Did I knock older people or any generation? Did I say racing is bad? Did I knock anyone here? I just said knocking younger people as too dumb to add numbers up is not the answer and it's not true in my opinion. It's a message board. I think there are other reasons than this one that comes up a lot. That's all.
Where was I bragging? I never said I was rich or brilliant at the game or that I'm one of the tech kids, guys, or a smart older guy, etc. Just said I think younger people are not that dumb today from the news and that it's not the problem. That's all. Every generation is smart and has built what we have. But then again every generation knocks the one after it as dumb. Goes on and on I guess :D

"Shut your hole and put your money as fast as you can in the window"? I do OK thanks. Anyway, says a lot but hey message boards are for debates, opinions and thoughts. ;)

That's my job=to be obstinate in my geriatric old age of 40!I'm hoping to connect with you as opposed to the crowd that thinks a 25% ROI 5 times a year is laughable.I'm ready to win right with you young'un.Believe me,I have my fingers crossed you are the real deal.I believe we are playing a winning game and it needs noticeable winners to make it go round.I've got kids that are 22 and 20 so I know what's going on in your heads.No matter.I wish I had any of my daughter's friends that loved racing.We'd a be a team instead of an antithesis.

[wiffleball whizz]

Young people can't handicap their way out of a paper bag and I totally love your braggadocio,put your money into the window as fast as humanly possible so I can take it.This isn't a verbal sport.Shut the hole in your face and tell me how smart you are with your money.I dare you!:cool:


That's the beauty of horse racing.....you can back up what You think with cash!!!!!

If people like a horse and don't bet it they should keep there mouth shut!!!


But in general young people can't handicap

[tzipi]

That's my job=to be obstinate in my geriatric old age of 40!I'm hoping to connect with you as opposed to the crowd that thinks a 25% ROI 5 times a year is laughable.I'm ready to win right with you young'un.Believe me,I have my fingers crossed you are the real deal.I believe we are playing a winning game and it needs noticeable winners to make it go round.I've got kids that are 22 and 20 so I know what's going on in your heads.No matter.I wish I had any of my daughter's friends that loved racing.We'd a be a team instead of an antithesis.

Oh c'mon you're not old at 40. Totally agree though, the game is a very good one and a winning one. Some things can surely be better. Also noticeable winners is a big thing and many games have them and people see them. Racing needs public winners.

[wiffleball whizz]

Oh c'mon you're not old at 40. Totally agree though, the game is a very good one and a winning one. Some things can surely be better. Also noticeable winners is a big thing and many games have them and people see them. Racing needs public winners.

There aren't any winners to be noticeable....TLG, cj any others ?

[CincyHorseplayer]

Oh c'mon you're not old at 40. Totally agree though, the game is a very good one and a winning one. Some things can surely be better. Also noticeable winners is a big thing and many games have them and people see them. Racing needs public winners.

Yes I was joking about 40 Tzipi!But even at my age,the lord set my soul on fire,because I feel the same intensity,pride,passion,desire,the yearn to shout out loud,the desire to rage and conquer.Nietzsche said it best,the lust to dominate.That I hope you have that in ya kid!I can bust balls but I'm rootin for you.All day!Let's knock this door down.

[Jay Trotter]

Nice post tzipi -- well said.

There is nothing wrong with the younger generation of today. They're as smart or smarter than any previous generation. It's just a matter of where their focus is and apparently it isn't on racing in general.

If the younger generation isn't playing the "game" it isn't their fault, it's the fault of those selling (marketing) the game. If there is one constant on this board it is the refrain that those who run the game don't listen to their customers (the bettors) and as a result they suffer and contract.

[tzipi]

Yes I was joking about 40 Tzipi!But even at my age,the lord set my soul on fire,because I feel the same intensity,pride,passion,desire,the yearn to shout out loud,the desire to rage and conquer.Nietzsche said it best,the lust to dominate.That I hope you have that in ya kid!I can bust balls but I'm rootin for you.All day!Let's knock this door down.

Well I'm not a young young kid but anyway, that's an awesome thing Cincy, if you feel young and burn with passion....more power to ya!

[DeltaLover]

There is no doubt that more young people can become competent handicappers than 20 years ago.

The reason they do not want to deal with horses is not because they do not have the ability but because they do not see sufficient evidence that they can beat the game.

Poker became so famous among new gamblers simply because it is easy to be convinced that it is a beatable game. This belief is promoted both by evidence (like the WSOP or the internet pros) and from related bibliography that is very comprehensive, extensive and valid.

The same is not true for horse betting. The related literature is extremely poor while there is absolutely no publicity covering winning players.

Horse racing should pay more attention to the bettor than to the horseman and find the way to advertise the bettors through the national tv, movies and any other means of communication.

Monster pick6 hitters should be interviewed and promoted heavily while handicapping tournaments should also attract national interest.

The real heros of horse betting should not be Pletcher, Assmusen or Mike Smith but the up to present unknown pros like Thaskalos, Aner, Dave Swartz, CJ, Trifecta Mike for example. (Of course this should happen in parallel with all the other measurements we have already talked extensively in other threads, like less and more transparent racing, better facilities, less takeout etc)

[tzipi]

Nice post tzipi -- well said.

There is nothing wrong with the younger generation of today. They're as smart or smarter than any previous generation. It's just a matter of where their focus is and apparently it isn't on racing in general.

If the younger generation isn't playing the "game" it isn't their fault, it's the fault of those selling (marketing) the game. If there is one constant on this board it is the refrain that those who run the game don't listen to their customers (the bettors) and as a result they suffer and contract.

No generation is dumb, they are just different in their own ways and goals. Younger people are more than capable of handicapping a card. But agree, not playing a game or sport, etc is not the people's fault. The game or sport itself has to make it more appealing than other outlets. It has to say, look what you can win, look at what you can enjoy doing. Look how you are treated! Customers have to come first in any game, sport, casino, etc. I think racing even though it has done some nice things, can better itself in certain areas and help reverse the "decline in racing". :ThmbUp:

[CincyHorseplayer]

Well I'm not a young young kid but anyway, that's an awesome thing Cincy, if you feel young and burn with passion....more power to ya!

If you are not a young kid why are you starting this thread then?Is this pure altruism shining through or what?Not getting what is going on here.It sounds like a flame topic.

[tzipi]

There is no doubt that more young people can become competent handicappers than 20 years ago.

The reason they do not want to deal with horses is not because they do not have the ability but because they do not see sufficient evidence that they can beat the game.

Poker became so famous among new gamblers simply because it is easy to be convinced that it is a beatable game. This belief is promoted both by evidence (like the WSOP or the internet pros) and from related bibliography that is very comprehensive, extensive and valid.

The same is not true for horse betting. The related literature is extremely poor while there is absolutely no publicity covering winning players.

Horse racing should pay more attention to the bettor than to the horseman and find the way to advertise the bettors through the national tv, movies and any other means of communication.

Monster pick6 hitters should be interviewed and promoted heavily while handicapping tournaments should also attract national interest.

The real heros of horse betting should not be Pletcher, Assmusen or Mike Smith but the up to present unknown pros like Thaskalos, Aner, Dave Swartz, CJ, Trifecta Mike for example. (Of course this should happen in parallel with all the other measurements we have already talked extensively in other threads, like less and more transparent racing, better facilities, less takeout etc)

Good points all around. Yeah, horsemen should never be passed over of course and looked after but the bettors and customers should be put way up there and you're right, whether it's CJ, or Dave or Thask or even public handicappers like Andy and whoever else does well. They should be pushed out there in the public eye and it will show that the game is not only a great great watch but can be a game where you can pick winners and you can make money.

They should get papers to start listing the big pick 6 payouts on a part of the back of the sports page. :D

[Longshot6977]

I just replied in the thread about the decline of horseracing as i didn't see this thread.
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106121&page=2&pp=15

In my post #24, my mini survey showed many young people actually think horseracing is boring.(!) They are pretty smart and can figure out most of the stuff in the form/stats, but unfortunately find the races too boring. :(

[tzipi]

If you are not a young kid why are you starting this thread then?Is this pure altruism shining through or what?Not getting what is going on here.It sounds like a flame topic.

No I'm under 30. I meant I am not 17 or 18 or something like that. Just saying younger people like me or even a bit younger are not dumb and can handle the game. Wish I was 17-18 though. That would be cool to not make some mistakes. :)

[tzipi]

I just replied in the thread about the decline of horseracing as i didn't see this thread.
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106121&page=2&pp=15

In my post #24, my mini survey showed many young people actually think horseracing is boring.(!) They are pretty smart and can figure out most of the stuff in the form/stats, but unfortunately find the races too boring. :(

I can see some claiming races, etc being boring with horses taking turns beating each other but the big races, the big days, etc....all around excitement. :)

[CincyHorseplayer]

No I'm under 30. I meant I am not 17 or 18 or something like that. Just saying younger people like me or even a bit younger are not dumb and can handle the game. Wish I was 17-18 though. That would be cool to not make some mistakes. :)


Allright.You were freakin me out for a minute!You were representing youth but not part and parcel.That's borderline weirdo status!HAHA!!If end result is kicking this game in the doughnut hole=I'm all in brother!:D

[tzipi]

Allright.You were freakin me out for a minute!You were representing youth but not part and parcel.That's borderline weirdo status!HAHA!!If end result is kicking this game in the doughnut hole=I'm all in brother!:D

I figured "young people are not smart enough today" meant 21-30 or something like that. We know 16, 17, 18, 19, etc is not meant as they can't play and wouldn't ever be included. I figured 21 and up.

I'm in too for this game can get back on top. :ThmbUp:

[PoloUK6108]

I'm 22, and the only thing about me I would classify as dumb in the area of betting horses is that I try to find value in every race I can, and my wallet doesn't appreciate it sometimes. Self-taught to read the program and pick winners at good prices. Now my friends on the other hand, they're newbs who play chalk and think they've done something when they hit $2 WP on a 9-5er...wish there were more handicappers my age, as its hard to find acceptance among the older crowd. I'm often all alone at the simulcast, and almost always the youngest person there, getting strange looks from people when I walk in. The looks get even stranger when that 12-1 comes out of the clouds and I'm heading to cash, passing everyone pitching their losers on the floor.

[Tom]

I know why the young people today cannot handicap.....they are getting the wrong ifnormation.....right here at Pace Advantage! :eek:

[olddaddy]

The youngins are a heck of a lot smarter than me. They stay away from a rotting carcass. Im old and everyone knows about how old farts feel about change.

[JustRalph]

I can see some claiming races, etc being boring with horses taking turns beating each other but the big races, the big days, etc....all around excitement. :)

That twenty minutes between races seems like forever to me. I try to cure it by following 5-6 tracks at a time, but after a few races it seems like they are all going off within a minute or two and I'm stuck waiting again. Then of course two of the three are running shitty maiden races at the same time and I have an hour or more to kill. It sucks!

This morning at 8:30a I put in 40 small bets while testing a few new things in Jcapper and went out for the day. I was looking for something to do after cutting the lawn. Not once did I consider watching another forty races with 5-7 dollar winners. Can't stand it.

Btw, I checked my balance tonight and I profited 6 bucks........thank god I didn't sit around all day watching races for a lousy six bucks :lol:

[ManU918]

I know why the young people today cannot handicap.....they are getting the wrong ifnormation.....right here at Pace Advantage! :eek:

I have to admit, this literally made me laugh out loud.

[Big Sal]

Whenever a neophyte, young or old, tackles horseplaying, It takes disposable time and disposable income.

Who is more likely to have the disposable time, and disposable money, needed for a beginner to master thoroughbred handicapping and betting? Someone younger or someone older?

I would go to the track with my grandfather every weekend growing up, and handicapping horses was always my passion. Even as a 10-year-old boy, he would literally only bet whatever I said...if we lost at the end of the day, he lost. If we won, he'd break me off a share of the profits and I'd feel rich. This went on for quite a few years.

Most people don't have the luxury of having an introduction like that. When they start a losing streak, they feel it and get discouraged. Even when they're doing well, they don't have the free time to dedicate in order to do all of the things you need to do to make yourself a more profitable horseplayer.

Young people have been very successful at poker...especially poker tournaments. I'm talking extremely young people, too. A good many of the supposed best poker players in the world are very young.

It is a gambling game that is easier to learn, easier to master, and far less intimidating. It's also one where an intelligent neophyte isn't going to have to endure the kind of losing they initially will when they first tackle horse racing.

[thaskalos]

Young people have been very successful at poker...especially poker tournaments. I'm talking extremely young people, too. A good many of the supposed best poker players in the world are very young.

It is a gambling game that is easier to learn, easier to master, and far less intimidating. It's also one where an intelligent neophyte isn't going to have to endure the kind of losing they initially will when they first tackle horse racing.

Horse racing suffers from a lack of suitable role models...whose presence would surely make it more likely that an intelligent young person with an inclination to gamble would choose to gravitate towards horse racing...instead of concentrating on poker.

If I were a young guy looking for a gambling game to play...I would wonder aloud where horse racing's equivalent to Patrik Antonius, Tom Dwan, Phil Galfond and Brian Hastings are.

Poker has young guys who started with tiny bankrolls...and became millionaires in only a few years. And not by getting lucky in a big tournament ala Chris Moneymaker...but by playing for hours a day every day, in the cash games.

The four players whom I mentioned started from the 50-cent blinds, and escalated to the biggest games to be found anywhere...winning millions of dollars in the process.

How does horse racing compete with that?

[tzipi]

Whenever a neophyte, young or old, tackles horseplaying, It takes disposable time and disposable income.

Who is more likely to have the disposable time, and disposable money, needed for a beginner to master thoroughbred handicapping and betting? Someone younger or someone older?

I would go to the track with my grandfather every weekend growing up, and handicapping horses was always my passion. Even as a 10-year-old boy, he would literally only bet whatever I said...if we lost at the end of the day, he lost. If we won, he'd break me off a share of the profits and I'd feel rich. This went on for quite a few years.

Most people don't have the luxury of having an introduction like that. When they start a losing streak, they feel it and get discouraged. Even when they're doing well, they don't have the free time to dedicate in order to do all of the things you need to do to make yourself a more profitable horseplayer.

Young people have been very successful at poker...especially poker tournaments. I'm talking extremely young people, too. A good many of the supposed best poker players in the world are very young.

It is a gambling game that is easier to learn, easier to master, and far less intimidating. It's also one where an intelligent neophyte isn't going to have to endure the kind of losing they initially will when they first tackle horse racing.
'
In my opinion with playing both, racing is far less intimidating than poker and poker tourns. When you say easy to learn. Does that mean poker is just what straights are and flushes are, etc? That is probably like saying horse racing is Win, Place, Show and to see where the horse finished last race. Both have their inner games. But again, I think the problem here is not with people, their age, etc.

[KingChas]

Which clock do you think a young person would be able to understand what time it is?



Now you have to deal with 5th's,10th's and 100th's of seconds.....forgetaboutit!

Then again I could use a young one right now to help me figure out how display the images I posted.................. :D

[burnsy]

:lol: :lol: :lol: Seriously??? I'm 50 and our generation is smart? Instead of "Baby Boomers" my generation should be called "Moron Boomers" because our generation just sold the cow for magic beans and a war a day..............yeah, its the kids fault that things are so messed up. Actions of the last 40 years have nothing to do with whats wrong with the country today??????? Those freakin young people....they did it............:bang: Oh yeah, and they are too dumb to handicap too.....:D But us older people, we are so smart, look how well things are running......:lol: Hey, but we know how to handicap horses........

[traynor]

I just replied in the thread about the decline of horseracing as i didn't see this thread.
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106121&page=2&pp=15

In my post #24, my mini survey showed many young people actually think horseracing is boring.(!) They are pretty smart and can figure out most of the stuff in the form/stats, but unfortunately find the races too boring. :(

Exactly. And the more insistent the current crop of handicappers is that the only way to "learn handicapping" is to read a pile of musty old books written 30-40 years ago, to read every posting on PA searching for "pearls of wisdom"--and then to lose year after year to "pay their dues" before they can even hope to begin winning--the more new bettors (or "investors") will avoid horse racing.

One might say that such behavior on the part of young people today is an indication of intelligence--not of a lack of intelligence.

[barn32]

Fixed your title:

Young people today too smart to handicap

[tzipi]

Which clock do you think a young person would be able to understand what time it is?



Now you have to deal with 5th's,10th's and 100th's of seconds.....forgetaboutit!



5th's, 10ths, and 100ths of seconds is grade school stuff. :)

"Then again I could use a young one right now to help me figure out how display the images I posted.................. :D"

Haaa that had me laughing Chaz. :ThmbUp:

[KingChas]

5th's, 10ths, and 100ths of seconds is grade school stuff. :)



Young people today are more intelligent.No doubt.
My comment was "tongue n cheek".

My post was in reference to an honor student I met recently that did not understand me when I said that we were leaving at half-past 12.The schools of today have nothing but digital clocks and she had never heard that phrase before.

I also consider young to be the (18-25) range.

They definitely have the time (politics and horseracing do not mix) and resources to become great handicappers.
Now the question is do they have the patience and work ethics to achieve that?

We will leave that for future thread................... :D

[tzipi]

Young people today are more intelligent.No doubt.
My comment was "tongue n cheek".

My post was in reference to an honor student I met recently that did not understand me when I said that we were leaving at half-past 12.The schools of today have nothing but digital clocks and she had never heard that phrase before.

I also consider young to be the (18-25) range.

They definitely have the time (politics and horseracing do not mix) and resources to become great handicappers.
Now the question is do they have the patience and work ethics to achieve that?

We will leave that for future thread................... :D

No I know, that why I made a joke back with a smiley. I can honestly say though that my grade school and High School had hand clocks in the hallways. Even watches today, for young and old are all hand clock ones. Digital watches are stuck in the 80's :D

[KingChas]

Digital watches are stuck in the 80's :D

You sure?
I will have to check my bell-bottom pockets.......... :lol:

[tzipi]

You sure?
I will have to check my bell-bottom pockets.......... :lol:

:D

[Overlay]

They definitely have the time (politics and horseracing do not mix) and resources to become great handicappers.
Now the question is do they have the patience and work ethics to achieve that?
In my view, the main challenges of handicapping are having the knowledge and discipline to "separate the wheat from the chaff" out of all the information out there (which encompasses not only automated/online resources, but also printed material), and then to evaluate and test insights gained from that effort to determine which ones have lasting value. To me, that is not (and has never been) an effort that is easily adaptable to short attention spans, or instant answers/validation. The potential rewards are still there, but I think that the sustained resolve needed to achieve them may be harder to find than it once was.