Reasons for the decline of horseracing

[Longshot6977]

Just wanted to share this link I found. The author does a pretty good job of listing, in a logical manner, many of the things we have discussed here. Please note the article is about 3 years old.

http://therail.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/reasons-for-the-decline-of-horse-racing/?_r=0

[DJofSD]

4, 5, 9, 11 figure highly for me.

[tzipi]

Yeah 4, 5, 9 and 11 are huge and the big problem.

Public not knowing how to handicap is laughable. "Learning how to play the horses is simply too steep..

What an excuse. Younger people today run companies at younger ages, millions write complicated software programs and start tech companies. The computer classes and difficulty of HS classes and college is way harder than ever before. I mean every young kid out there has started a website from scratch and that's WAY more complicated than handicapping. Try starting one right now, you'll blow your mind trying but every 12 yr old can do it. I learned to read the DRF when I was a young kid in a couple days, if that. When did learning to read a post parade become rocket science? Every friend I taught picked it up in a like a few days of going to the track.

Drugs keeps people away big time. Corruption. Takeout huge too. WAY more betting games out there today where you don;t have to lose as much back as with horse racing. I play other games way more today. I make more with way less takeout.

Never running horses is a joke too. Racing PROMOTES, PROMOTES and PROMOTES horses and for the public to become fans of and come to the track to follow and within months the horse is always retired now for money. People give up trying. So many times over the years, people have asked where's so and so , when's so and so running. My answer 99% of the time is....."Retired".

[chadk66]

This is why I feel the tracks need to market to the younger crowd that don't attend races. These young people are intrigued by challenges such as handicapping. And with all the internet availability of pp's, stats, etc. it should be right in their wheel house. And when they loose in the beginning it will make most of them more driven to succeed at it.

[Overlay]

To me, number 13 is major. Yes, people as a whole (especially young people) are more tech-savvy than ever before. However, after years of the "dumbing-down" of academic curricula to the lowest common denominator, serious handicapping (in my opinion) is by now too cerebral in nature to appeal to as wide an audience as it once did. The analytical part of the game was (and is) what has always appealed to me about it (not to mention the possibility of winning consistently through skill rather than luck). That hasn't changed, but the target demographics are no longer there.

[Robert Goren]

#1 and #10 are the two biggest things. The total lack of marketing of racing as a gambling game really hurts. It doesn't need famous horses or jockeys, it need famous gamblers. It needs a Chris Moneymaker or two. It needs a Doyle Brunson character thrown too. And it really needs to push online betting. Then hold on-track events for the internet bettor like the WSOP.

[JustRalph]

This is why I feel the tracks need to market to the younger crowd that don't attend races. These young people are intrigued by challenges such as handicapping. And with all the internet availability of pp's, stats, etc. it should be right in their wheel house. And when they loose in the beginning it will make most of them more driven to succeed at it.

I don't believe this for a minute. I have been in contact with twenty something's over the last five years that would never ever give horse racing a second look. They use the Internet for socializing and staying in touch with their friends and fellow gamers. They have largely moved to mobile. Most don't even own a desktop computer. They have older laptops and rarely use them. Only if they have to. If you can't do it on a phone, they don't want to do it. They also do not have the discretionary cash to risk gambling it away. That would take away from their alcohol and weed budget.

To me, number 13 is major. Yes, people as a whole (especially young people) are more tech-savvy than ever before. However, after years of the "dumbing-down" of academic curricula to the lowest common denominator, serious handicapping (in my opinion) is by now too cerebral in nature to appeal to as wide an audience as it once did. The analytical part of the game was (and is) what has always appealed to me about it (not to mention the possibility of winning consistently through skill rather than luck). That hasn't changed, but the target demographics are no longer there.

Exactly right. They don't get physics etc at all. Math? forget it, and lets face it, if you're going to handicap you must grasp the mathematical concepts involved.

A couple of weeks ago I had a 28 yr old gal over at my house to visit my wife. She is a grad of Towson University, with honors btw. When she was leaving she discovered she had a flat tire. Another friend and I were having trouble getting a lug nut loose while changing the tire. I commented that the lug wrench in her car was incapable of providing enough "leverage" to remove the nut.

It was one of those tiny crappy wrenches that come with the stock trunk setup in the newer cars. I went into my garage and retrieved a large long pipe that fit over the wrench perfectly. While I was retrieving it she asked my friend if she could purchase more leverage at the auto parts store down the street.

We had a good laugh and a nice discussion about the physics involved etc. including demonstrating that the pipe from my garage allowed us to "leverage" the amount of force being applied to the lug nut. she asked me to go to the auto parts store with her, where we purchased a proper lug wrench and portable jack.

She wanted to purchase the small four way wrench as opposed to the larger one. We discussed leverage again. Apparently she has a habit of hitting curbs and blowing tires. She wanted to be prepared next time :lol:

I cannot imagine explaining how to handicap to her. Btw, this gal is pretty sharp in her job, and is an outstanding manager of people. I would consider her bright etc. but when I inquired about learning about physics and math in school, she said she could not recall any class on physics or anything like it. She did not know who Isaac Newton was or even Charles Darwin. she stated that basic math and one Algebra class was all she was required to graduate.

I recall learning all the physics stuff in conjunction with following the space program at school. She stated they had short chapters on the space program and mostly learned about the Challenger disaster and she had never heard of the Apollo program.

The foundation just isn't there anymore. The payoff takes too long.

[DJofSD]

JR, the young lady in the story likely went to one of those school that promoted "self esteem," "feeling good" and not hurting any ones feelings. I do not doubt within her field of expertise, she is accomplished and capable. But I can not help but think that diversity has replaced a good broad exposure to math, science and the ability to think logically and coherently.

[Track Phantom]

This is why I feel the tracks need to market to the younger crowd that don't attend races. These young people are intrigued by challenges such as handicapping. And with all the internet availability of pp's, stats, etc. it should be right in their wheel house. And when they loose in the beginning it will make most of them more driven to succeed at it.

What rock do you live under? Young people (or most people now) have ZERO interest in long, complex, detailed number crunching (for example, when is the last time you saw someone keeping score at a baseball game? Used to do it all the time in the 60's an 70's).

No - young people are not intrigued by challenges such as handicapping. They are intrigued with texting a paragraph of information in 17 characters.

[JJMartin]

What rock do you live under? Young people (or most people now) have ZERO interest in long, complex, detailed number crunching (for example, when is the last time you saw someone keeping score at a baseball game? Used to do it all the time in the 60's an 70's).

No - young people are not intrigued by challenges such as handicapping. They are intrigued with texting a paragraph of information in 17 characters.
...and playing Xbox all day

[Robert Goren]

I don't believe this for a minute. I have been in contact with twenty something's over the last five years that would never ever give horse racing a second look. They use the Internet for socializing and staying in touch with their friends and fellow gamers. They have largely moved to mobile. Most don't even own a desktop computer. They have older laptops and rarely use them. Only if they have to. If you can't do it on a phone, they don't want to do it. They also do not have the discretionary cash to risk gambling it away. That would take away from their alcohol and weed budget.



Exactly right. They don't get physics etc at all. Math? forget it, and lets face it, if you're going to handicap you must grasp the mathematical concepts involved.

A couple of weeks ago I had a 28 yr old gal over at my house to visit my wife. She is a grad of Towson University, with honors btw. When she was leaving she discovered she had a flat tire. Another friend and I were having trouble getting a lug nut loose while changing the tire. I commented that the lug wrench in her car was incapable of providing enough "leverage" to remove the nut.

It was one of those tiny crappy wrenches that come with the stock trunk setup in the newer cars. I went into my garage and retrieved a large long pipe that fit over the wrench perfectly. While I was retrieving it she asked my friend if she could purchase more leverage at the auto parts store down the street.

We had a good laugh and a nice discussion about the physics involved etc. including demonstrating that the pipe from my garage allowed us to "leverage" the amount of force being applied to the lug nut. she asked me to go to the auto parts store with her, where we purchased a proper lug wrench and portable jack.

She wanted to purchase the small four way wrench as opposed to the larger one. We discussed leverage again. Apparently she has a habit of hitting curbs and blowing tires. She wanted to be prepared next time :lol:

I cannot imagine explaining how to handicap to her. Btw, this gal is pretty sharp in her job, and is an outstanding manager of people. I would consider her bright etc. but when I inquired about learning about physics and math in school, she said she could not recall any class on physics or anything like it. She did not know who Isaac Newton was or even Charles Darwin. she stated that basic math and one Algebra class was all she was required to graduate.

I recall learning all the physics stuff in conjunction with following the space program at school. She stated they had short chapters on the space program and mostly learned about the Challenger disaster and she had never heard of the Apollo program.

The foundation just isn't there anymore. The payoff takes too long.Not everybody is math and science inclined, but there are enough who are to keep this game alive. We just have to let them know that the game exists. I would think betting horses would appeal to the game players if presented right. It was the illusion that skill could beat this game that drew me to it. I think that same illusion if presented correctly would draw others.

[Robert Goren]

What rock do you live under? Young people (or most people now) have ZERO interest in long, complex, detailed number crunching (for example, when is the last time you saw someone keeping score at a baseball game? Used to do it all the time in the 60's an 70's).

No - young people are not intrigued by challenges such as handicapping. They are intrigued with texting a paragraph of information in 17 characters.Somebody is buying and playing Madden 25. Fantasy sports are booming. So are Bowl game and NCAA tourney pools. All require at least some number crunching.

[Stillriledup]

Yeah 4, 5, 9 and 11 are huge and the big problem.

Public not knowing how to handicap is laughable. "Learning how to play the horses is simply too steep..

What an excuse. Younger people today run companies at younger ages, millions write complicated software programs and start tech companies. The computer classes and difficulty of HS classes and college is way harder than ever before. I mean every young kid out there has started a website from scratch and that's WAY more complicated than handicapping. Try starting one right now, you'll blow your mind trying but every 12 yr old can do it. I learned to read the DRF when I was a young kid in a couple days, if that. When did learning to read a post parade become rocket science? Every friend I taught picked it up in a like a few days of going to the track.

Drugs keeps people away big time. Corruption. Takeout huge too. WAY more betting games out there today where you don;t have to lose as much back as with horse racing. I play other games way more today. I make more with way less takeout.

Never running horses is a joke too. Racing PROMOTES, PROMOTES and PROMOTES horses and for the public to become fans of and come to the track to follow and within months the horse is always retired now for money. People give up trying. So many times over the years, people have asked where's so and so , when's so and so running. My answer 99% of the time is....."Retired".

How would people who dont know how to play the horses know horse playing is too steep unless they try for themselves, go thru years of "learning" and THEN realize its too steep? Are they just "trusting" word of mouth from losing gamblers who say "its impossible"?

[cj]

Why? Can be summed up easily in my opinion...living in the past.

[TJDave]

This guy is a board member of the NYRA.

Quit whining and DO SOMETHING, already.

[Tom]

The article is 3 years old......half the horses that aren't running very often weren't even born when it was written.

And not much has be done to fix the other points, either.

[kinznk]

As far as the racing form being too complex I would agree that it is. I don't bet but I can generally follow a form. When I go to the track I see people talking about their bets using only the program, not the form. I think that is because it is easier. If you don't understand race conditions it will hamper your ability to win. I understand that people here like those people because that is who you are betting against. However, the folks that come to the track once a year need to win a bit so they come twice a year or more. Even slot machines are rigged to keep you playing. I'm sure there are no horsemen or gamblers that would agree to my suggestion but I would like to see something more straightforward for conditions like they do in greyhound racing, D through A. Winners of maidens move to D, a D winner moves to C, etc. Make every race an optional claimer up until stakes races. However, the large however, is that I don't know if there are enough horses to fill the fields. I guess rather than connections looking for the right race at the right length with the right conditions they can look for the length and grade. Perhaps they would run more often. IDK. I am somewhat thinking extemporaneously.

[Tom]

I agree somewhat - conditions have become a joke.
Go back to claiming - let the price sort out the class.
When you see a race and the conditions have chapters, you know you don't want to bet!

[thaskalos]

What rock do you live under? Young people (or most people now) have ZERO interest in long, complex, detailed number crunching (for example, when is the last time you saw someone keeping score at a baseball game? Used to do it all the time in the 60's an 70's).

No - young people are not intrigued by challenges such as handicapping. They are intrigued with texting a paragraph of information in 17 characters.
Pick up a book on no-limit holdem...and tell me it isn't more complicated than any handicapping book you've ever seen. And yet...young people have taken to these books like ducks to water.

Young gamblers have proven that they are willing to travel the extra mile in order to master a complicated game...but it's got to be the right game.

[Robert Fischer]

I've typed out plenty of long-winded poorly written stuff on this topic.


short and sweet = Mass Media Broadcast.

Horse Racing has a lot of room for improvement in the broadcast, and therein lies the greatest amount of untapped potential.

[chadk66]

What rock do you live under? Young people (or most people now) have ZERO interest in long, complex, detailed number crunching (for example, when is the last time you saw someone keeping score at a baseball game? Used to do it all the time in the 60's an 70's).

No - young people are not intrigued by challenges such as handicapping. They are intrigued with texting a paragraph of information in 17 characters.when I went to Cby this summer. I was there most every day for two weeks late june into early july. I hadn't been to the track in six to eight years. I could not believe the number of twenty somethings at the races. I never saw those numbers in the 80's when I was training there. Something has changed demographically in the twin cities area and they are pulling twenty somethings there in groves. It may not be happening in your area. But that's probably because the track isn't going after those individuals. It's working in MN

[Stillriledup]

On the complexity issue...why does it FEEL like its easier to select a winning NFL bet instead of a horse bet? People who bet the NFL don't normally say "gee, the learning curve is too much, i'm going to stay away from sports betting".

[CincyHorseplayer]

This thread is funny!All the reasons I'm reading for the decline of horseracing are all the reasons you should be optimistic.The younger generation lacks the attention span and werewithal.Great.They'll be stupid enough to test an app so we can take their money.The technological ignorance the younger generation has,along with the existential crisis horseplayers are having,are making this betting market ripe for a killing.Nobody has faith and B level efforts are par.It's time to slaughter these sheep who parade as wolfs.Feast on this fear and loathing boys and girls.

[Longshot6977]

As much as it may hurt us seasoned veteran players who love this game, I want to express the results of my mini survey with my son and 4 nephews (all aged 29 thru 33). I asked each what was the reason why they don't bet the ponies or go to the track; I'm sad to say each one mentioned it was so boring to them to watch a horse race. I also asked my wife why she doesn't like horseracing and she also said it was too boring. Ouch, that hurt many of us, right?

So I then asked my son/nephews why they liked watching Nascar races (which I reminded them was also racing around an oval) and they said there can be a crash which makes it exciting, and immediately added they do not want to see any horse accidents or mishaps on the animals.

So I asked why are young people so interested in poker games and they said you can watch the faces directly of the opponents you're betting against and can see their opponent and have that excitement which is not readily available in horseracing.

We can guess all we want the reasons why people are disinterested in our great game, but the truth is it's boring to some people to watch horseraces. I have heard this same sentiment from seasoned vets and some here on this forum. Me, I love the excitement and don't think I'll ever get bored. Just wanted to share that with you all.

[chadk66]

As much as it may hurt us seasoned veteran players who love this game, I want to express the results of my mini survey with my son and 4 nephews (all aged 29 thru 33). I asked each what was the reason why they don't bet the ponies or go to the track; I'm sad to say each one mentioned it was so boring to them to watch a horse race. I also asked my wife why she doesn't like horseracing and she also said it was too boring. Ouch, that hurt many of us, right?

So I then asked my son/nephews why they liked watching Nascar races (which I reminded them was also racing around an oval) and they said there can be a crash which makes it exciting, and immediately added they do not want to see any horse accidents or mishaps on the animals.

So I asked why are young people so interested in poker games and they said you can watch the faces directly of the opponents you're betting against and can see their opponent and have that excitement which is not readily available in horseracing.

We can guess all we want the reasons why people are disinterested in our great game, but the truth is it's boring to some people to watch horseraces. I have heard this same sentiment from seasoned vets and some here on this forum. Me, I love the excitement and don't think I'll ever get bored. Just wanted to share that with you all.it absolutely is boring. and I think that's why, as a trainer I never took to sitting down and handicapping a race. bored me to tears. In fact when I entered a horse I really never handicapped the race when the DRF came out. I looked to see who the horses were. 99% of the time I knew the horses already anyway. Occasionally a shipper would come in and I'd look to see where and what it's been running for. But as a trainer I knew what level my horses belonged at and I had one goal. And that was to have my horses ready on race day to give a hundred percent. The rest takes care of itself.

[ManU918]

Pick up a book on no-limit holdem...and tell me it isn't more complicated than any handicapping book you've ever seen. And yet...young people have taken to these books like ducks to water.

Young gamblers have proven that they are willing to travel the extra mile in order to master a complicated game...but it's got to be the right game.

I'll expand on this a little bit because I am one of these people. Now at the old age of 29, I remember being 19 years old and seeing Chris Moneymaker win the WSOP. I grew up in a family that had card nights and so on but I never really had any interest in poker until I seen that. There was a Borders not to far from where I lived and that store quickly became my second home. They actually let you sit in the store and read the books. I literally went there everyday for 2 months and read every single poker book they had and took extensive notes. I now own all of those books but at the time I had no interest in spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars on books. Funny Thask brings up how complicated they are because I remember reading Phil Gordon's Little Black Book and it was so refreshing because it talked about poker but it wasn't super complex. Just good easy reading. Now go to a book like the Mathematics of Poker, that type of reading reminds me of being back in calculus class.

Anyways... My suggestion would be this... I have made this suggestion numerous times. The NTRA/NHC Championship should not be a qualify only contest. How the hell can they present an award at the Eclipse Awards named handicapper of the year based on one contest in which the contest isn't open to everyone? That makes zero sense. Turn the current event into a buy-in event and market it to the young people. Believe me we will come out in droves. A contest where if you run good not only do you win money that is in the contest pool but you also win money from betting your selections. It's a win/win. If this catches on then the NHC can start a circuit tour similar to the WSOP. Right now the NHC has qualifiers at different venues throughout the year. Turn these qualifiers into circuit events where the players can earn points towards the Eclipse Handicapper of the year award.

For example: I have personally thought about entering the $10K Breeders Cup Betting Contest a few times. The problem for me is that the Breeders Cup is a two day hangout fest with my Dad. It's like being a kid again. I go to my parents house, sleep over, get drunk, bet the races and just shoot the shit with my Dad for two days. So the timing doesn't work for me but racing needs more of those type of contests. It doesn't have to be 10K but follow the WSOP's blueprint and this game will grow.

Just my two cents.

[appistappis]

maybe the thought of going into an otb that smells like cigars and ben-gay isn't the attraction young people are looking for.

[chadk66]

maybe the thought of going into an otb that smells like cigars and ben-gay isn't the attraction young people are looking for.
In canada that is certainly true. But down here now they just smell like Ben-Gay

[Overlay]

Not everybody is math and science inclined, but there are enough who are to keep this game alive. We just have to let them know that the game exists. I would think betting horses would appeal to the game players if presented right. It was the illusion that skill could beat this game that drew me to it. I think that same illusion if presented correctly would draw others.
If I thought (then or now) that the possibility of being able to win consistently at handicapping through the use of skill was/is an illusion, I would never have gotten involved with it in the first place, or remained interested in it. It would have held no more lasting appeal for me than any of the true negative-expectation games (which comprise the great majority of gambling), where the odds are inescapably/mathematically against the player on every bet. Is consistent success at handicapping difficult/challenging? Definitely. Impossible (even today)? Definitely not.

[delayjf]

IMO the two biggest factors are the proliferation of Casinos nationwide and the drop in the avg field size in racing which deflated the odds and the competitive nature of horse racing.

[nijinski]

Saw this tweet by Chantal . It's not like she can tweet while riding . Why can't she from the jocks room ? I don't see the harm it and I think it's good
for exposure .
Social media ! why not ?



Chantal Sutherland ‏@jockeychantal 21h
Just finished being in the stewards office....no more tweeting during racing:(

LOL a reply from DRF Harness
4h
@Gingras3 @jockeychantal @BValvsRacing Leave it to racing officials to keep information from the public they are supposed to serve.

[Grits]

Sorry, Nj, I think the stewards are correct on calling her in. I feel its unprofessional. If I were an owner or trainer, I wouldn't want my jock sending out "tweets" either.

For someone, like Andy, who many people follow for his handicapping picks, that's different. For a jockey, I'm sorry, keep your mind on your work.

[nijinski]

Sorry, Nj, I think the stewards are correct on calling her in. I feel its unprofessional. If I were an owner or trainer, I wouldn't want my jock sending out "tweets" either.

For someone, like Andy, who many people follow for his handicapping picks, that's different. For a jockey, I'm sorry, keep your mind on your work.

If you want to attract new fans who trust and come out and support you .Especially the young fans . It makes sense to connect . JMO .

[tzipi]

If you want to attract new fans who trust and come out and support you .Especially the young fans . It makes sense to connect . JMO .

I agree, in todays world where athletes are connected, jockeys should be able to tweet. Just not on a horse :D
I mean I have a ton of books with older pics(40's-90's) that shows jocks playing cards, wrestling eachother, etc between races. Why a tweet today is bad when you're waiting between races, I'm not sure. :confused:

[nat1223]

fantasy sports drives the younger generation at the moment. your college age students will spend money on drinking and drugs and fantasy sports. college graduates are saving their money for a house, starting a family,etc, they are not going to blow money on gambling. Playing cards is more intriguing then playing the horses.

[nat1223]

Sorry, Nj, I think the stewards are correct on calling her in. I feel its unprofessional. If I were an owner or trainer, I wouldn't want my jock sending out "tweets" either.

For someone, like Andy, who many people follow for his handicapping picks, that's different. For a jockey, I'm sorry, keep your mind on your work. this happens everywhere in sports so nothing new here. I don't think it's unprofessional

[Grits]

Let's say you're on the sidelines, on the bench, in the dugout, or court side.... you're an NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, or Tennis player. Or even a NASCAR driver and you're that driver's crew chief?

Are these athletes tweeting to promote their following, their popularity among fans during events?

I'm asking because I don't really know....

[Grits]

this happens everywhere in sports so nothing new here. I don't think it's unprofessional

Where? During an event, or game? Give me some examples of players. Please. And I'll better understand.

[Stillriledup]

There's no proof that sending out any tweets between races constitutes a jock not keeping their mind on work. When they get a leg up, they concentrate on business at hand. When they're in between races, they're essentially on their own free time.

Also, what if a jock rides in the first race of the day and doesnt have a mount until the last race of the day...they're in the room for 3 or 4 hours sitting around waiting. Just seems too extreme.

[tzipi]

Let's say you're on the sidelines, on the bench, in the dugout, or court side.... you're an NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, or Tennis player. Or even a NASCAR driver and you're that driver's crew chief?

Are these athletes tweeting to promote their following, their popularity among fans during events?

I'm asking because I don't really know....

I think when your on the sideline in a game like NFL, you're always in game because anything can change. NHL can be put on a shift anytime. Always working. A crew chief is always working. Drivers always driving working with crew. When a jockey is just sitting between races and races can not go off for 25 min, there's no problem tweeting, playing cards, etc IMO.

[nijinski]

Let's say you're on the sidelines, on the bench, in the dugout, or court side.... you're an NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, or Tennis player. Or even a NASCAR driver and you're that driver's crew chief?

Are these athletes tweeting to promote their following, their popularity among fans during events?

I'm asking because I don't really know....

Many football and baseball fans are household names .
That's why I think it's a positive thing to have any social media for
horseracing . This is why I don't see any harm in it .

I noticed Chantel returned a fan tweet thanking her for the support
Saying she can really use all the good wishes right now .
It's all light stuff , the stewards need to look elsewhere . .

[nat1223]

Where? During an event, or game? Give me some examples of players. Please. And I'll better understand. i have seen several tweets from athletes mostly prior to a game or after there game. List? just go on twitter and you will find them.

[nat1223]

Many football and baseball fans are household names .
That's why I think it's a positive thing to have any social media for
horseracing . This is why I don't see any harm in it .

I noticed Chantel returned a fan tweet thanking her for the support
Saying she can really use all the good wishes right now .
It's all light stuff , the stewards need to look elsewhere . . correct! there is more problems in racing then tweet's.

[Grits]

i have seen several tweets from athletes mostly prior to a game or after there game. List? just go on twitter and you will find them.

PRIOR TO or AFTER is key to your reply. Thanks. ;)

[nijinski]

I love what Chantal did .

She posted a pic of the stewards room on twitter when called in the other . day for this .Zing!

[nijinski]

PRIOR TO or AFTER is key to your reply. Thanks. ;)

It's different Grits . The game is over after each race , it's not continuous.
We see baseball players in the bullpen watching . It's another world .
In the jocks room in between , they can watch the replays and still have a minute to tweet .

[JustRalph]

Where? During an event, or game? Give me some examples of players. Please. And I'll better understand.

NASCAR drivers have tweeted during the race. It was during a red flag, where the cars are stopped for track cleanup etc. It was met with great notoriety and was considered kind of a breakthrough moment. Some of the bigger teams actually have social media staff now. They tweet info from crew chiefs and other info during the race.

There are other drivers who don't tweet during the race, but before and after. they carry on a relationship with their fan base that is unlike anything I see anywhere else. From pictures of their kids flying to and from the track with them to updates on their wife's ongoing pregnancy.

Clint Bowyer has a great time on twitter. He blew an engine while leading last night and was tweeting not long after. Needless to say he was not happy. He also tweeted during his flight home to Kansas from Atlanta. It's become an interesting part of NASCAR at a time when they need to keep their fans engaged. NASCAR has always had a closer relationship with their fans, and twitter is continuing that tradition in many ways.

Driver Kevin Harvick's wife tweeted during her pregnancy and fans have followed her since. She has 170k followers +

[cj]

What is the problem with tweeting during a card, between races? Horse racing continues to live in the past. I can't think of a more backwards decision the stewards could have made.

Now, if they didn't like the content of the tweet, that is another story. Fine her for that, or whatever penalty they deem appropriate. But tweeting? What is next, they ban table tennis matches between races? Signing autographs? Talking to the crowd?

[dilanesp]

On the complexity issue...why does it FEEL like its easier to select a winning NFL bet instead of a horse bet? People who bet the NFL don't normally say "gee, the learning curve is too much, i'm going to stay away from sports betting".

50-50 chance.

[Grits]

It's different Grits . The game is over after each race , it's not continuous.
We see baseball players in the bullpen watching . It's another world .
In the jocks room in between , they can watch the replays and still have a minute to tweet .

Nj, I went to her twitter account (which can be found with Google) and read this note that she tweeted after being called in:

"Ya, I think its cool!! It would be fun to be able to tell my fans what I like and what I think about each horse."

She wants to give out her picks?

Call me silly .... but, wow, I can't believe this stuff. When each jock is tweeting his/her picks we will have moved into the 21th century. :lol:

Its just me, I know. Its just me. I'm not so cool.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Don't racetracks still post signs by the paddock warning jocks and patrons from communicating with one another during the live card?

[nijinski]

Nj, I went to her twitter account (which can be found with Google) and read this note that she tweeted after being called in:

"Ya, I think its cool!! It would be fun to be able to tell my fans what I like and what I think about each horse."

She wants to give out her picks?

Call me silly .... but, wow, I can't believe this stuff. When each jock is tweeting his/her picks we will have moved into the 21th century. :lol:

Its just me, I know. Its just me. I'm not so cool.

Actually she replied to a harness racing driver who tweets about his upcoming drives.
I remember when I told my brother who loves the standardbreds
about Gingras's tweets . He nearly fell off his chair and started following
him.
He told me it won't affect who he bets but he enjoys reading the
problems the guy encountered with the horse last time out .
It's all good entertainment .

[nijinski]

Don't racetracks still post signs by the paddock warning jocks and patrons from communicating with one another during the live card?

Signs like that would keep the sport looking like it's
on the dark side .

[dilanesp]

I think the racing authorities are acting like idiots on the tweets. Tweets are public. If she says something inappropriate they can take action. It's not like giving out inside information to one bettor.

[thespaah]

I don't believe this for a minute. I have been in contact with twenty something's over the last five years that would never ever give horse racing a second look. They use the Internet for socializing and staying in touch with their friends and fellow gamers. They have largely moved to mobile. Most don't even own a desktop computer. They have older laptops and rarely use them. Only if they have to. If you can't do it on a phone, they don't want to do it. They also do not have the discretionary cash to risk gambling it away. That would take away from their alcohol and weed budget.



Exactly right. They don't get physics etc at all. Math? forget it, and lets face it, if you're going to handicap you must grasp the mathematical concepts involved.

A couple of weeks ago I had a 28 yr old gal over at my house to visit my wife. She is a grad of Towson University, with honors btw. When she was leaving she discovered she had a flat tire. Another friend and I were having trouble getting a lug nut loose while changing the tire. I commented that the lug wrench in her car was incapable of providing enough "leverage" to remove the nut.

It was one of those tiny crappy wrenches that come with the stock trunk setup in the newer cars. I went into my garage and retrieved a large long pipe that fit over the wrench perfectly. While I was retrieving it she asked my friend if she could purchase more leverage at the auto parts store down the street.

We had a good laugh and a nice discussion about the physics involved etc. including demonstrating that the pipe from my garage allowed us to "leverage" the amount of force being applied to the lug nut. she asked me to go to the auto parts store with her, where we purchased a proper lug wrench and portable jack.

She wanted to purchase the small four way wrench as opposed to the larger one. We discussed leverage again. Apparently she has a habit of hitting curbs and blowing tires. She wanted to be prepared next time :lol:

I cannot imagine explaining how to handicap to her. Btw, this gal is pretty sharp in her job, and is an outstanding manager of people. I would consider her bright etc. but when I inquired about learning about physics and math in school, she said she could not recall any class on physics or anything like it. She did not know who Isaac Newton was or even Charles Darwin. she stated that basic math and one Algebra class was all she was required to graduate.

I recall learning all the physics stuff in conjunction with following the space program at school. She stated they had short chapters on the space program and mostly learned about the Challenger disaster and she had never heard of the Apollo program.

The foundation just isn't there anymore. The payoff takes too long.
I have noticed this trait in many younger people. They are typically book smart, but could not think their way out of a wet paper bag if they are spotted the open end.
These people went through their formative years where critical thinking and logic were discouraged by a public school system that went from education and preparation for life as an adult to 'teaching the test'.
They also lack researching skills that older people have in that we will dig deeper for answers. The younger people believe the first thing that pops up on Google and don't bother to peel back the layers of the onion....
I almost have to laugh but could not because it is so sad that a College degree holder( with honors) believed one could 'buy leverage' from an auto parts store.

[nijinski]

If it's true that Delmar promoted Talamo's tweet fest as Paulick said .
Then they owe an apology to Chantal . Sounds familiar :lol: :lol:

I do remember JT tweeting all the time .

[Stillriledup]

Chantal being denied her rights?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech

[bks]

ManU gave us the answer here. It's a simple matter of marketing the game as a "reality show". Get a cable network behind the idea. Create a sponsored, big buy-in handicapping tournament during Breeders Cup weekend (say, a $5K bankroll) and film it. Let the scoreboard determine which players are covered, then edit and televise the best parts making sure to respect the competition aspect. Don't turn it into a "watch the freaks" event.

Then do the same thing during Oaks-Derby Fri-Sat. If it is even a minor draw, create additional tournaments (maybe a series during the Derby preps) giving audiences a chance to become familiar with winning players. Personalities will develop. People will watch

And the number of entries will grow. After a couple of years, you'll have thousands of people lining up to play a "main event" for $5K with a prize pool north of $10M.

Or, you know, it'll fail miserably. But this is the only play.

[JustRalph]

Chantal being denied her rights?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech

State regulated? You might be on to something........

[Tom]

Signs like that would keep the sport looking like it's
on the dark side .

It is on the dark side - run by blithering idiots top to bottom.
You know what a steward is? Some who can't do anything related to horse racing, but their uncles get them the only jobs they can do - watch TV.
Stewards are roadblocks to good racing - most are at best grossly incompetent, at worse, crooked as hell. And all are idiots. The game is looked at as suspicious as it is is because racing officials are, as a group - worthless.

As we see here, Canada has their fair share of morons as well.

Can't get timing right, can't stop the drugging, but they can come down on someone for tweeting! Freaking jokes - the lot of them!

[Tom]

State regulated? You might be on to something........

Do they have freedom of speech in Canada?
Isn't it metric or something, you can only so so much, not 100%

[Dahoss2002]

#1 and #10 are the two biggest things. The total lack of marketing of racing as a gambling game really hurts. It doesn't need famous horses or jockeys, it need famous gamblers. It needs a Chris Moneymaker or two. It needs a Doyle Brunson character thrown too. And it really needs to push online betting. Then hold on-track events for the internet bettor like the WSOP.
Wholeheartedly agree :ThmbUp: . I watched it slowly develop here at Louisiana Downs. State Lottery, video poker, Texas legalizes racing again, then multi-state lottery, and legalized casino gambling here in 1994. Anyone who attended regularly 1983 -91 can attest to this.

[appistappis]

Here in canada we simplify things. We take all our idiots and crooks and elect them.

[HuggingTheRail]

Here in canada we simplify things. We take all our idiots and crooks and elect them.

LOL - I think you may be correct...