View Full Version : Best 3 year old?
TheEdge07
08-24-2013, 08:01 PM
Departing?
ManU918
08-24-2013, 08:43 PM
Departing?
You cant be serious.
TheEdge07
08-24-2013, 08:46 PM
You cant be serious.
Dead Serious.
Robert Fischer
08-24-2013, 08:48 PM
No standout as of now.
sammy the sage
08-24-2013, 09:05 PM
I would've bet departing today...wonder why he didn't enter?
Think Orb will come along nicely...
Pletcher's & Lukas's probably won't run or last till 4....just sayin.
Mineshaft
08-24-2013, 09:07 PM
Departing?
Nice horse but nope not the best 3 yr old. Win a meaningful Grade 1 then we can talk.
andtheyreoff
08-24-2013, 09:36 PM
Palace Malice. He broke awkwardly today and was out of his element against the bias, yet ran a credible fourth.
Easy one...Princess of Sylmar.
Fager Fan
08-24-2013, 09:43 PM
Easy one...Princess of Sylmar.
She probably wouldn't even get my 3yo filly vote after hanging up her horseshoes for the year for no reason. If her connections don't think she can beat the older females (of which she's part of their division now), then I'm not thinking she has what it takes to beat males.
andtheyreoff
08-24-2013, 09:49 PM
She probably wouldn't even get my 3yo filly vote after hanging up her horseshoes for the year for no reason. If her connections don't think she can beat the older females (of which she's part of their division now), then I'm not thinking she has what it takes to beat males.
Well, who else can you vote for? She's won 3 G1s this year- and the biggest ones for 3yo fillies, to boot. However, I do agree she should be in the Cotillion or the Beldame (I imagine she's not BC nominated).
Fager Fan
08-24-2013, 09:54 PM
Well, who else can you vote for? She's won 3 G1s this year- and the biggest ones for 3yo fillies, to boot. However, I do agree she should be in the Cotillion or the Beldame (I imagine she's not BC nominated).
If I were a voter, I might abstain. It's one thing when a horse has a valid reason for missing races they should be in - injuries and not being BC nominated are valid reasons. But she should continue the campaign right up to the BC, meaning the two races you mention or suitable substitutes. Going out willingly in mid-August, before ever meeting up with older females, I couldn't reward that action.
I suppose Mandella's filly has a chance at making enough noise to take the award away from Sylmar.
chadk66
08-24-2013, 09:56 PM
I'm guessing her connections are perfectly happy winning the 3yo filly championship and freshening her up and having a great four year old campaign since she's not breeders cup eligible.
chadk66
08-24-2013, 10:02 PM
I watched the traverse just now. Orb was pretty close to the pace even though it was slow. He looked like a dead winner at the head of the lane. But gave a good showing. He has probably had the best average finish in all his races and winning the derby would cap it for me, he'd get my vote for best 3yo this year.
She probably wouldn't even get my 3yo filly vote after hanging up her horseshoes for the year for no reason. If her connections don't think she can beat the older females (of which she's part of their division now), then I'm not thinking she has what it takes to beat males.
She won most of the big races, and isn't BC nominated. This is about 3yos, not HOY. What male 3yo could beat older, besides none?
Fager Fan
08-24-2013, 11:12 PM
She won most of the big races, and isn't BC nominated. This is about 3yos, not HOY. What male 3yo could beat older, besides none?
Look at the calendar. It was only mid-August when she hung up her horseshoes for the year. After today, with few exceptions, there are no more races restricted to 3yos, because they're now part of the older division. I don't begrudge someone not wanting to pay a BC supplement, but there are big races in September and October. If you're healthy, you're expected to go to those races, not duck them and the older f&m division.
The Travers was the last protected hurrah for 3yo males. Imagine if Verazzano or Orb ran the table the way Sylmar did, and they say, "We're done now, we're not going to the Woodward, JCGC, or the BC." I bet a lot of people would be screaming if that had happened. We wouldn't even excuse them for not wanting to pay the supplement (only a fraction of what the horse had won in purses over the year).
Robert Fischer
08-24-2013, 11:28 PM
Palace Malice. He broke awkwardly today and was out of his element against the bias, yet ran a credible fourth.
PM ran pretty well. Not only the flatfooted start, but entering the stretch he lost a step lugging-in behind Will Take Charge I think.
It was a credible race, but I didn't see anything amazing. Has to be somewhere on any serious list of best 3yo.
PoloUK6108
08-24-2013, 11:30 PM
Palace Malice is the best 3yo in my book..bit at the wire in the Bluegrass, set blistering fractions in the Derby slop (arguably the hardest race to win there is), won the "test of the champion" Belmont, ran off with the Jim Dandy, broke horribly and was swung way out in the Travers to close to 4th, and I'm thinking there'll be more to come.
GMB@BP
08-24-2013, 11:34 PM
One thing is for certain non of them is all that good, every one of them has to have the race pretty much go their way or they cant find a way to win. For a while it looked like Orb might be better than that by overcoming slow paces down in florida and then dominating when he got that setup but now its clear that was short term.
Really good horses dont need perfect setups to win.
What three year old could beat Princes of Sylmar, let alone older?
The best 3yo male?
Keep checking the maiden races.....he hasn't started yet.
chadk66
08-25-2013, 09:12 AM
What three year old could beat Princes of Sylmar, let alone older?
The best 3yo male?
Keep checking the maiden races.....he hasn't started yet.
Some pretty hard to argue with points you just made
Palace Malice is the best 3YO right now and he would beat Princess Of Sylmar without difficulty.
Look at the calendar. It was only mid-August when she hung up her horseshoes for the year. After today, with few exceptions, there are no more races restricted to 3yos, because they're now part of the older division. I don't begrudge someone not wanting to pay a BC supplement, but there are big races in September and October. If you're healthy, you're expected to go to those races, not duck them and the older f&m division.
None of this has anything to do with which horse is better. Bring it up again come Eclipse time.
tonypp
08-25-2013, 01:50 PM
baby blue
Fager Fan
08-25-2013, 03:09 PM
None of this has anything to do with which horse is better. Bring it up again come Eclipse time.
If she's better than the colts, then she's welcome to prove it on the track.
nijinski
08-25-2013, 03:11 PM
This crop is not an outstanding one . I am a Palace Malice fan , but
he too cannot overcome what the better horses in the past have.
I won't throw him out in the future though.
Verrazano is another big statuesque type that we have high expectations of
but he may need some coddling . We don't know what's going on in his head
but he hasn't shown up in the Derby or the Travers .
He's a More Than Ready colt that's been a step up from the rest , many of
of MTR males are gelded . He's an interesting case , He looked like a freak
at Monmouth ,however in the big arena there seems to be a question of agility and maybe balance .
If she's better than the colts, then she's welcome to prove it on the track.
It was just my opinion. Even though I met the owner the week of the Alabama and spoke to him and his family for a good 15 minutes, I doubt very much he is interested in my thoughts on where he should run his horse.
Beachbabe
08-26-2013, 04:47 PM
She probably wouldn't even get my 3yo filly vote after hanging up her horseshoes for the year for no reason. If her connections don't think she can beat the older females (of which she's part of their division now), then I'm not thinking she has what it takes to beat males.
According to her owner & trainer, "Princess" will either take on Royal Delta in The Beldame or go in The Cottilion at Parx.
IMO, reading between the lines, she'll go in The Beldame.
Valuist
08-26-2013, 05:07 PM
Best male: Palace Malice
Best male: Palace Malice
Probably, but being the best male 3yo this year is a bit like being the best golfer in your foursome with a 10 handicap.
classhandicapper
08-26-2013, 07:18 PM
I watched the traverse just now. Orb was pretty close to the pace even though it was slow. He looked like a dead winner at the head of the lane. But gave a good showing. He has probably had the best average finish in all his races and winning the derby would cap it for me, he'd get my vote for best 3yo this year.
It's quite a tough choice because I agree that Orb has the best overall record of the 3YO males so far. He has won two Grade 1s, the most important race, and has been the most consistent. I believe all the others have only won one Grade 1.
One the flip side you could argue he had a good trip in the Travers, made what appeared to be the winning move, and hung while Palice Malice was probably best. His fans could counter that Orb needed the race and will move forward.
If you put a gun to my head I would probably vote for Orb over Palice Malice right now and hold my nose, but I don't think it's settled yet.
TheEdge07
09-07-2013, 08:21 PM
Departing?
Anyone convince yet?
Birdstone
09-07-2013, 08:27 PM
We all know it's Normandy Invasion :lol: :lol:
the little guy
09-07-2013, 08:44 PM
It was just my opinion. Even though I met the owner the week of the Alabama and spoke to him and his family for a good 15 minutes, I doubt very much he is interested in my thoughts on where he should run his horse.
I'm pretty friendly with him, and I think he would be more than happy to hear your thoughts. More than someone on the internet foolish enough to say he wouldn't vote for Princess of Sylmar as top 3YO filly. Now THAT is an opinion not worth listening to.
Stillriledup
09-07-2013, 11:33 PM
Anyone convince yet?
The cardinal sin of message board etiquette: Bumping your own post to gloat.
Now, if you bump someone ELSES.... :D
TheEdge07
09-08-2013, 06:14 AM
The cardinal sin of message board etiquette: Bumping your own post to gloat.
Un
Now, if you bump someone ELSES.... :D
Beyer said it was.ok..wasnt.gloating wanted to discuss.three year olds
burnsy
09-08-2013, 07:22 AM
Anyone convince yet?
No, He paid 2.60 because the field was inferior,there was no one in that race. The entire 3yo group has been inconsistant but this horse has not even beat the top ones yet. At this point the best 3yo will be the one that starts winning or running well NOW against OLDER. Its another year with a "mixed bag" and the only two that standout are Palice Malice and Orb and even they don't fire consistantly. I'm not convinced because this horse could face harder competition and fold like a cheap suit. I always tend to avoid these "best of" conversations until the facts are in......and with this group the facts are far from determined.....its still wait and see who wins at this point. Which kind of says none of these horses are that good yet, they take turns winning non- fast races. Lets see how things play out this fall. Theres time for one to step it up............maybe????
classhandicapper
09-08-2013, 01:51 PM
Anyone convince yet?
IMO, horses shouldn't win Eclispes for running fast speed figures in 2nd and 3rd string fields. In his 2 legitimate tests, he finished 3rd in the LA Derby and 6th in the Preakness.
The thing he has going for him is that he's probably fresher than a few of the other top 3yos heading into the some of the bigger open races for older horses. So if he keeps moving forward and gets tested again he might be able to handle them now and move to the top of the 3yo class. But he's going to have to run in a major race for older or the Classic.
TheEdge07
09-08-2013, 02:00 PM
Ill take my chances with Stall over Pletcher all day..
classhandicapper
09-08-2013, 02:09 PM
Ill take my chances with Stall over Pletcher all day..
Are we talking about winning your 2yo debut at Saratoga or surviving past your 5th race? ;)
TheEdge07
09-08-2013, 02:47 PM
Are we talking about winning your 2yo debut at Saratoga or surviving past your 5th race? ;)
BTW Overanalyze retire shocker
Cholly
09-08-2013, 06:53 PM
According to DRF, Al Stall said Departing's next start would be the Oklahoma Derby, and that would be his final 2013 start. Stall's a smart cookie--he knows what he's got, and he knows Departing's not anywhere close to the "best 3YO".
Rise Over Run
09-08-2013, 07:34 PM
Probably, but being the best male 3yo this year is a bit like being the best golfer in your foursome with a 10 handicap.
I am personally offended by that statement!
Palace Malice is the best 3YO right now and he would beat Princess Of Sylmar without difficulty.
Still think so? I never did. Lets see how he does in a few races.
I'm pretty friendly with him, and I think he would be more than happy to hear your thoughts. More than someone on the internet foolish enough to say he wouldn't vote for Princess of Sylmar as top 3YO filly. Now THAT is an opinion not worth listening to.
I don't know how I missed this one, but thanks. She is clearly a special horse. I'm sure even Fager Fan would admit that now.
Unless pigs fly and a 3 yo wind the JCGC, at this point, who really cares who the best 3 yo is? I vote POS.
GMB@BP
09-28-2013, 06:32 PM
Hard to see anyone but Palice Malice winning the 3yo award have he ran ok and Orb still has not crossing the finish line.
Hard to see anyone but Palice Malice winning the 3yo award have he ran ok and Orb still has not crossing the finish line.
Pretty sad when running ok gets you the Eclipse.
Still think the rail was the main factor in dirt racing today, not necessarily speed. Even Princess of Sylmar spent considerable time near the inside.
GMB@BP
09-28-2013, 06:48 PM
Pretty sad when running ok gets you the Eclipse.
Still think the rail was the main factor in dirt racing today, not necessarily speed. Even Princess of Sylmar spent considerable time near the inside.
Oh agree, speed just helps you get that spot.
And yea, but your figures clearly showed that these 3YO were up against it in this spot. They need to develop or next year it could be a weak class of older horses.
CincyHorseplayer
09-28-2013, 06:52 PM
We still got time left.I agree with CJ,close isn't close enough.Let's see who even has the balls to show up and run.I think they should be allowed to not give an award.If nobody wants to show up where it's important and notch a win after August.
turninforhome10
09-28-2013, 10:01 PM
Almost have to start talk of looking at Princess of Sylmar. Being the only 3yo to beat a horse like Royal Delta.
menifee
09-28-2013, 11:28 PM
Almost have to start talk of looking at Princess of Sylmar. Being the only 3yo to beat a horse like Royal Delta.
They have best three year old male and three year old female. There's no general award for best three year old.
GMB@BP
09-28-2013, 11:35 PM
They have best three year old male and three year old female. There's no general award for best three year old.
It does seem odd that people are upset a 3yo filly has outperformed the the colts...I think its great. The 3yo colts could still develop but they are an average lot, it happens.
The 3YO fillies obviously are better than the 3YO colts in a relative sense-- but beating them in head-to-head competition, I'm far from convinced.
Ron The Greek's final time is far superior to Princess Of Sylmar's today. I expect that she and Palace Malice will get fairly similar Beyer figures.
Ron The Greek's final time is far superior to Princess Of Sylmar's today. I expect that she and Palace Malice will get fairly similar Beyer figures.
It is if you believe the track remained the same with two turf races in between. I have my doubts.
menifee
09-29-2013, 12:58 AM
It does seem odd that people are upset a 3yo filly has outperformed the the colts...I think its great. The 3yo colts could still develop but they are an average lot, it happens.
I'm not upset. I was just pointing out that there is no Eclipse Award for best three yr old horse.
Though I do wish they would supplement and put her in the Distaff - really intriguing to see her, Beholder and Royal Delta go at it one more time. Not going to happen though.
GMB@BP
09-29-2013, 01:16 AM
It is if you believe the track remained the same with two turf races in between. I have my doubts.
One thing that did not change though is the rail, watching it again what a dream trip for Ron the Greek, got the gold rail, let Palice Malice do the dirty work, slip by on the inside.....no interest in him in a month at anything less that 25/1.
turninforhome10
09-29-2013, 06:53 AM
I'm not upset. I was just pointing out that there is no Eclipse Award for best three yr old horse.
Though I do wish they would supplement and put her in the Distaff - really intriguing to see her, Beholder and Royal Delta go at it one more time. Not going to happen though.
Thanks, you are correct.
CincyHorseplayer
09-29-2013, 04:51 PM
It does seem odd that people are upset a 3yo filly has outperformed the the colts...I think its great. The 3yo colts could still develop but they are an average lot, it happens.
That doesn't upset me at all.Even here in Ohio I have see a crop of fillies win my heart over during the course of a season.I think a lot of us are fine with it!
classhandicapper
09-30-2013, 10:41 AM
IMO the 3yo filly crop is great and the 3yo colt crop is about average. On a relative basis there is no comparison, but I'm skeptical of the idea that Princess of Slymar would have finished 2nd in the JCGC ahead of Palice Malice.
Whatever the figures, some pretty good horses finished behind Palice Malice on Saturday. I don't think it's a lock she's better than him.
raybo
09-30-2013, 01:07 PM
The race Saturday was a dirt race so I was using PFV, power, form, velocities for rankings, even though this race was obviously going to have a big class component in it. My mistake on not realizing that before betting. RTG was my top ranked class horse and should have been on my win ticket, especially at the odds. :bang:
Regarding best 3YO, I don't see how any horse, other than PM, gets it. Do I agree with that, probably not, but with all the crap that happened this year it's a difficult decision. Orb would not be in my contenders though, that's for sure.
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