Father/son kicked out of AZ Cardinals game

[highnote]

The Nanny State strikes again:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/father-kicked-cardinals-game-having-son-hold-beer-135221084.html

A season ticket holder wanted to take a picture at the AZ Cardinals game. He asked his 15 year old son to hold his beer. Undercover agents kicked him and his son out of the game for serving alcohol to a minor and cited for trespassing. A season ticket holder cited for trespassing for attending a game that he paid for?

My parents always let me taste their wine or beer when I was a kid. I do the same for my kids. Never thought I could get arrested for it.

Does this mean the priest and I will get arrested for allowing my kids to drink wine during communion?

[johnhannibalsmith]

...

Does this mean the priest and I will get arrested for allowing my kids to drink wine during communion?

See the Sharia Law thread.

[JustRalph]

The Nanny State strikes again:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/father-kicked-cardinals-game-having-son-hold-beer-135221084.html

A season ticket holder wanted to take a picture at the AZ Cardinals game. He asked his 15 year old son to hold his beer. Undercover agents kicked him and his son out of the game for serving alcohol to a minor and cited for trespassing. A season ticket holder cited for trespassing for attending a game that he paid for?

My parents always let me taste their wine or beer when I was a kid. I do the same for my kids. Never thought I could get arrested for it.

Does this mean the priest and I will get arrested for allowing my kids to drink wine during communion?

Many states have changed their laws that this a crime in public only. In many places just a minor holding the cup is a crime. I suspect that this resulted in the trespass charge. See section six of the link below

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/13/01504.htm

In Ohio years ago you could take your kid into a bar , no matter the age, buy them an alcoholic beverage and they could drink it, under your supervision. No problem.

Then the child abuse laws were changed, and it basically nullified any circumstances for giving a minor alcohol. I actually saw parents get arrested for giving Nyquill style cold medicines to their kids. Usually t his was after a non custodial parent complained, but just providing the alcohol can be a crime, even if they don't consume it.

[Quagmire]

Further proof that the best place to watch live sports is in the recliner on the 3D HD with a cooler full of cold ones within arms reach. :)

[TJDave]

Here, hold my beer a minute.

[highnote]

The NFL purse policy and the father and son getting kicked out of the Cardinals game have given me two more reasons not to attend NFL games.

Seriously, will priests and parents of kids who are under the legal drinking age get arrested at Catholic masses in Arizona because the priest served the kids wine and the parents let the kids drink it?

[highnote]

Still don't see how he was trespassing if he left when he was asked to leave. He was authorized to be at the stadium because he was a season ticket holder.

I grew up in Ohio. My parents always gave me a sip of their beer when I was a kid when we were at a restaurant.

A little common sense would go a long way.

Tony Robbins tells a great story about how when he was a 13 year old kid he kept pestering his mom to let him taste her beer. She finally relented, but told him he had to drink the entire 6 pack and he couldn't stop until it was finished. He said he took one sip and thought it tasted horrible. She made him keep drinking. He said he got through the first can and started vomiting and has never had a drink of beer since.

About the only good thing I can think of about this is to say that AZ must be pretty safe if this so called "crime" is being prosecuted.


Many states have changed their laws that this a crime in public only. In many places just a minor holding the cup is a crime. I suspect that this resulted in the trespass charge. See section six of the link below

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/13/01504.htm

In Ohio years ago you could take your kid into a bar , no matter the age, buy them an alcoholic beverage and they could drink it, under your supervision. No problem.

Then the child abuse laws were changed, and it basically nullified any circumstances for giving a minor alcohol. I actually saw parents get arrested for giving Nyquill style cold medicines to their kids. Usually t his was after a non custodial parent complained, but just providing the alcohol can be a crime, even if they don't consume it.

[Striker]

The story is making more sense now. The guy got what he deserved, but too bad for his son that he had to witness this and miss the game.


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/report-shows-cards-fan-belligerent-boot-article-1.1435278

[highnote]

If his actions were illegal why didn't they arrest him right on the spot? They said they never saw his son take a drink.

Maybe we haven't gotten the full story from either side?

In any case, it sounds like they were wrong to hassle him over such a petty circumstance.

In New Jersey and other states underage drinking is less than a misdemeanor -- it is only a disorderly persons offense.

I still say AZ is a nanny state.

[Striker]

Not sure if you live AZ or not, but here in Chicago every Professional Sports Stadium has cup holders in front of the seats, so I would think AZ sports stadiums would have the same. Why wouldn't he just set it down in the cupholder if they had those, instead of giving it to his kid?

[Stillriledup]

Not sure if you live AZ or not, but here in Chicago every Professional Sports Stadium has cup holders in front of the seats, so I would think AZ sports stadiums would have the same. Why wouldn't he just set it down in the cupholder if they had those, instead of giving it to his kid?
Maybe he didnt think 'big bro' was going to pounce on him while he was paying top dollar to enjoy himself.

[highnote]

Not sure if you live AZ or not, but here in Chicago every Professional Sports Stadium has cup holders in front of the seats, so I would think AZ sports stadiums would have the same. Why wouldn't he just set it down in the cupholder if they had those, instead of giving it to his kid?

The father probably knows his kid better than the cops do and knew his son wasn't going to gulp down the beer he asked him to hold for a moment.

Hell, when I was 16 I lucky enough to be able to hang out in a bar in the lobby of a midtown Manhattan high rise with the guitarist Joey Molland from Badfinger and Mark Clarke from Deep Purple (pardon the name dropping). The waitress stopped by our table and asked us what we wanted. Joey said to me, "Do you drink beer?" I said yes. He ordered a round of beer. The waitress didn't blink and no one cared that we were underage drinkers.

Later, on that same trip, my friend and I were hanging out in a strip club on 42nd Street -- back before it became Disneyized. A stripper sat down next to me and brought me a beer and asked me to buy her a Perrier. I said OK. The bartender said, "That will be $20 please." That was more money than I made in a day at minimum wage. :D

AZ is obviously not as liberal as NYC, but come on. The fact that the cops even thought they should say something to the father speaks volumes.

Just let people enjoy time with their family and the game. Why did they feel like they had to ruin it?

Actually, I know why. They probably didn't give a shit if the father let the kid hold the beer. They were probably worried about their own asses. They probably got shit from their boss. This stuff all comes down from the top -- shit runs downhill. This goes right back to the people who make these stupid laws -- the pandering politicians -- and also the sheeple who let things happen.

That's my rant for the day. :D

[Striker]

In any case, it sounds like they were wrong to hassle him over such a petty circumstance.

If the employees came over and 100% kicked him out just for letting his kid hold the beer, then I side with everything you are saying, but I have a feeling it didn't go down like that especially given more facts from the story that were given in post #8, and especially if he was a little intoxicated. If he was acting in an orderly fashion towards the employees when they were talking to him, then absolutely this was wrong. A child was holding a beer, something is supposed to be said, that is their job. It should have gone something like- excuse me sir can you please not have your child hold your beer anymore or next time we will have to escort both of you from the stadium. The guy then should have said ok sorry about that, it won't happen again. End of story.

[Stillriledup]

The father probably knows his kid better than the cops do and knew his son wasn't going to gulp down the beer he asked him to hold for a moment.

Hell, when I was 16 I lucky enough to be able to hang out in a bar in the lobby of a midtown Manhattan high rise with the guitarist Joey Molland from Badfinger and Mark Clarke from Deep Purple (pardon the name dropping). The waitress stopped by our table and asked us what we wanted. Joey said to me, "Do you drink beer?" I said yes. He ordered a round of beer. The waitress didn't blink and no one cared that we were underage drinkers.

Later, on that same trip, my friend and I were hanging out in a strip club on 42nd Street -- back before it became Disneyized. A stripper sat down next to me and brought me a beer and asked me to buy her a Perrier. I said OK. The bartender said, "That will be $20 please." That was more money than I made in a day at minimum wage. :D

AZ is obviously not as liberal as NYC, but come on. The fact that the cops even thought they should say something to the father speaks volumes.

Just let people enjoy time with their family and the game. Why did they feel like they had to ruin it?

Actually, I know why. They probably didn't give a shit if the father let the kid hold the beer. They were probably worried about their own asses. They probably got shit from their boss. This stuff all comes down from the top -- shit runs downhill. This goes right back to the people who make these stupid laws -- the pandering politicians -- and also the sheeple who let things happen.

That's my rant for the day. :D

They felt like they needed to ruin it because everyone wants to be a hero these days.

Also, here's another "odd" theory. Since we are in a surveillance state, and there's surveillance everywhere....who's to say that there wouldnt have been a video of these "agents" standing right near a kid who had a beer and did nothing? Who's to say they wouldnt have been on "shame on you" on television with Geraldo Rivera showing how these guys, being paid to do a job, just looked the other way when the kid had a beer in his hand.

The "you never know who's watching' stuff wasnt around a few decades ago, but now, everyone has a camera on everything you do, and these guys just figured that it could mean their job as well as nat'l embarrassment on television....even if its a .00000001 pct chance of it happening, why take the risk?

[TJDave]

The story is making more sense now. The guy got what he deserved, but too bad for his son that he had to witness this and miss the game.


F-bombs.

Stellar act of parenting, don't you think? :faint:

[Robert Goren]

It is against the law for the kid to hold the beer. The stadium vendor could lose his license if it was allowed. Times have changed since we were kids. In this case probably for the better.

[highnote]

It is against the law for the kid to hold the beer. The stadium vendor could lose his license if it was allowed. Times have changed since we were kids. In this case probably for the better.


This law is asinine. It was better when we were kids.

You know why it was better when we were kids? It was because our fathers fought in WWII and they weren't wimps and afraid of everything.

Like I said AZ is a nanny state. This is a good example of over-legislation.

A vendor loses a liquor license because someone lets their kid hold a beer. As if the vendor has any control over how people handle a cup filled with beer. This is laughable. :D But what isn't laughable is how politicians try to control even the smallest of behaviors.

Common sense should prevail, but doesn't. As usual, fear is the real motivator here. Fear of losing a license. Security officer fear of getting fired. Stadium fear of lawsuits.

Almost every American politician and too many Americans are afraid of everything.

NFL afraid of concussion lawsuits so they make high hits illegal. How about players assuming some risk -- they know they're playing a dangerous game. No one forces an NFL player to play football. Go get a real job if you're afraid of getting a concussion.

Fear of terrorists -- so politicians pass the Patriot act -- not to protect Americans, but out of fear that they won't get re-elected if there is another terrorist attack. Then politicians expand the law to spy on Americans because everyone is so afraid of terrorist attacks -- and most Americans are happy to give up their liberty for a false sense of security. Lemmings.

How about Americans start acting like grown ups and showing a little personal responsibility instead of relying on the nanny to make all the decisions.

The people who died on that plane over Pennsylvania that was hijacked in the 9/11 attack took matters into their own hands and attacked the terrorists. Maybe putting a little faith in American citizens is the right approach. Woe to any terrorist who tries to hijack an American plane in mid-air today.

I know that I'm drifting, put these are related points. Americans are getting dafter and wimpier every year.

I swear this is my last rant on the subject. :D

[Robert Goren]

This law is asinine. It was better when we were kids.

You know why it was better when we were kids? It was because our fathers fought in WWII and they weren't wimps and afraid of everything.

Like I said AZ is a nanny state. This is a good example of over-legislation.

A vendor loses a liquor license because someone lets their kid hold a beer. As if the vendor has any control over how people handle a cup filled with beer. This is laughable. :D But what isn't laughable is how politicians try to control even the smallest of behaviors.

Common sense should prevail, but doesn't. As usual, fear is the real motivator here. Fear of losing a license. Security officer fear of getting fired. Stadium fear of lawsuits.

Almost every American politician and too many Americans are afraid of everything.

NFL afraid of concussion lawsuits so they make high hits illegal. How about players assuming some risk -- they know they're playing a dangerous game. No one forces an NFL player to play football. Go get a real job if you're afraid of getting a concussion.

Fear of terrorists -- so politicians pass the Patriot act -- not to protect Americans, but out of fear that they won't get re-elected if there is another terrorist attack. Then politicians expand the law to spy on Americans because everyone is so afraid of terrorist attacks -- and most Americans are happy to give up their liberty for a false sense of security. Lemmings.

How about Americans start acting like grown ups and showing a little personal responsibility instead of relying on the nanny to make all the decisions.

The people who died on that plane over Pennsylvania that was hijacked in the 9/11 attack took matters into their own hands and attacked the terrorists. Maybe putting a little faith in American citizens is the right approach. Woe to any terrorist who tries to hijack an American plane in mid-air today.

I know that I'm drifting, put these are related points. Americans are getting dafter and wimpier every year.

I swear this is my last rant on the subject. :DWith what we know about effects of alcohol on the brains of teenagers, no responsible adult would give their kids beer today. But I guess you have gotten yourself hammered at ball game if front of your kid you can't be called responsible.

[highnote]

With what we know about effects of alcohol on the brains of teenagers, no responsible adult would give their kids beer today.

That's bullshit. I seriously doubt that an occasional beer is going to affect the development teenagers' brains.

But I guess you have gotten yourself hammered at ball game if front of your kid you can't be called responsible.

HUH? Judging from your writing, it looks like you've been drinking. :D

Plus, your reply is pre-supposing that I have done some behavior of which you disapprove.

FYI -- I rarely drink and given the cost of beer at a ballpark I would never spend money on beer at a major league baseball game -- let alone buy enough to get hammered! :D

[johnhannibalsmith]

I'm not sure that I'd use this particular event to term Arizona a "nanny state" unless we're just going to concede that they all are and at different tiers. I moved here from New York and if Arizona defines "nanny state", then I can't even begin to find an appropriate moniker for New York (and many of the other places that I've lived).

[Steve 'StatMan']

Given the price of ballpark beers at major sports stadiums, the guy might not want to have set the beer on the floor and have some a-hole spill it. What are they, $6-$8 or more now?

The guy may also have been too resistant to the stadium personal and gotten himself removed. Maybe didn't want to part with that $6-$8 beer either, and be cut off for the rest of the game.

I've seen people do strainge things about beer. I've seen young adults, who were inebriated, on festival nights when the signs warn no alchol allowed on the train those nights, argue with the conductor and specially hired bouncers on the trains and get physically thrown off the last train of the night because they wouldn't give up their bottle of beer.

I don't like this case, but don't know everything about the actually happened.

[highnote]

I'm not sure that I'd use this particular event to term Arizona a "nanny state" unless we're just going to concede that they all are and at different tiers.

I concede that they all are and at different tiers.

I moved here from New York and if Arizona defines "nanny state", then I can't even begin to find an appropriate moniker for New York (and many of the other places that I've lived).

New York is pretty bad. Albany politics. :rolleyes:

AZ is especially bad because of their gambling policies toward horse racing. But a lot of the gambling on horses problem in AZ is because the Indians do a lot of lobbying to protect their casino interests.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...AZ is especially bad because of their gambling policies toward horse racing. But a lot of the gambling on horses problem in AZ is because the Indians do a lot of lobbying to protect their casino interests.

Blame that on Turf Paradise under current ownership. That's their baby.


edited - "management" to read "ownership", since we can't really hold Mr. Mayor accountable for the foolishness of his predecessors. Sorry fellow PA lurker member, but it's true.

[iceknight]

The story is making more sense now. The guy got what he deserved, but too bad for his son that he had to witness this and miss the game.


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/report-shows-cards-fan-belligerent-boot-article-1.1435278
Not sure I read it the same way as you do:

"Agents stated in the report that they didn't witness Coulter's 15-year-old son drink from the cup of beer, but Coulter's confrontational demeanor kept them from asking him any questions and led the agents to remove him and his son from the stadium because they were wary of Coulter becoming "physically aggressive" and jeopardizing the safety of people in the stadium."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/report-shows-cards-fan-belligerent-boot-article-1.1435278#ixzz2dE7jnJpW

So the agents are the ones that fill out the report and they are ones that confronted him first on a supposed "crime" -as defined by nanny state- of course. It looks like he started using f-bombs only after he was escorted out of his seat.. and I am quite sure that was not voluntary.

[Striker]

So the agents are the ones that fill out the report and they are ones that confronted him first on a supposed "crime" -as defined by nanny state- of course. It looks like he started using f-bombs only after he was escorted out of his seat.. and I am quite sure that was not voluntary.
A child having a beer or cup of beer in his hand is not just illegal in nanny states, and it isn't a "supposed" crime, it doesn't matter if the kid took a sip or not. But like I said earlier to just kick both of them out for his kid holding a beer is a bit over the top IMO. I gave my thoughts on how I would think this incident should have gone down in post#13.

[highnote]

A child having a beer or cup of beer in his hand is not just illegal in nanny states, and it isn't a "supposed" crime, it doesn't matter if the kid took a sip or not. But like I said earlier to just kick both of them out for his kid holding a beer is a bit over the top IMO. I gave my thoughts on how I would think this incident should have gone down in post#13.


It is stupidity to make it illegal for a child to hold his father's beer for a moment. It's all about circumstances. The father wasn't encouraging his son to drink beer. He asked him to hold it while he took a picture. That the security officers would even make any kind of stink over it is the height of stupidity. They could have sat back and watched for a moment to see how it played out.

If the security guards don't know how to handle a justifiably upset individual with a little expertise then they aren't qualified to be in the security business.

So what if the father got upset and shot off his mouth. Security should have backed off and told him to have a nice day and watched to see how it played out rather than feel like they had to throw their weight around. You're talking about a father asking his son to hold his beer, not someone dealing crack. Have some f-ing sense.

At Aqueduct the Jamaicans smoke pot in the grandstand. No one says a thing. Big f-ing deal. Grow up already.

Now you've got me started. :D

[Striker]

So what if the father got upset and shot off his mouth. Security should have backed off and told him to have a nice day and watched to see how it played out rather than feel like they had to throw their weight around. You're talking about a father asking his son to hold his beer, not someone dealing crack. Have some f-ing sense.

Common sense would have me put the freakin beer in the cupholder if you had 1/2 a brain, but that is just me. Again security should have just said please don't let your child hold your beer again or we will have to escort both of you out of the stadium, and the guy should have said okay or said sorry and I won't, but if he got an attitude and couldn't comprehend why they were asking him to not give the beer to the kid, then yes I would have kicked him out too. If you think not, then it is time to agree to disagree.

[highnote]

Common sense would have me put the freakin beer in the cupholder if you had 1/2 a brain, but that is just me. Again security should have just said please don't let your child hold your beer again or we will have to escort both of you out of the stadium, and the guy should have said okay or said sorry and I won't, but if he got an attitude and couldn't comprehend why they were asking him to not give the beer to the kid, then yes I would have kicked him out too. If you think not, then it is time to agree to disagree.


Common sense went out the window when this law passed. If I was an AZ taxpayer I'd be upset that the pols wasted my money on such a trivial law. Common sense should dictate. You don't need a law for everything. What a waste.

All this stupid law did was make the scenario possible and ruin a nice day for the father and son. There doesn't need to a law for this and the security guards shouldn't be hassling someone over this. And if the guy wanted to let his kid have a sip of his beer then so what.

[JustRalph]

Common sense went out the window when this law passed. If I was an AZ taxpayer I'd be upset that the pols wasted my money on such a trivial law. Common sense should dictate. You don't need a law for everything. What a waste.

All this stupid law did was make the scenario possible and ruin a nice day for the father and son. There doesn't need to a law for this and the security guards shouldn't be hassling someone over this. And if the guy wanted to let his kid have a sip of his beer then so what.

Completely out of touch with state laws and legislatures. That's what you are. They get lobbied constantly for these types of laws by the do gooders and the MADD's of the world. Tons of bad legislation comes directly from lobbying.

The nanny state in which you cry about has long since run amok. It's a reflexive action to every incident that happens. It's in response to our more liberal turn in society.

On your security expertise, allowing dad to become enraged using the F-bomb etc in front of other patrons, and then backing down, sets a precedent for every other person watching. It also sets a legally invoked precedent when they do throw someone out.

If they don't treat every incident the same, they can become legally challenged on many cases. Think about it. If they back down on this guy, then tomorrow they throw out a black guy, or a women then the black guy or women files a lawsuit claiming discrimination etc, the stadium and the security dept/company etc are screwed.

You set guidelines and you enforce all cases the same. I am sure that is why the guy and his kid get got tossed the minute dad popped off with his mouth.

[highnote]

Completely out of touch with state laws and legislatures. That's what you are. They get lobbied constantly for these types of laws by the do gooders and the MADD's of the world. Tons of bad legislation comes directly from lobbying.

It has been said that the average American unintentionally commits three felonies per day. That speaks volumes about how over-legislated this country has become.

On your security expertise, allowing dad to become enraged using the F-bomb etc in front of other patrons, and then backing down, sets a precedent for every other person watching. ....... I am sure that is why the guy and his kid get got tossed the minute dad popped off with his mouth.

Since I wasn't there I don't really know for certain what set the guy off. My argument is more about stupid laws and the people who are hired to enforce them and the way those people enforce them.

Assume for a moment that the father had every right to be upset because he was treated unjustly; then perhaps his use of the f-word would be understandable.

I remember mowing the lawn and getting stung by yellow jackets when I was about 10 or 12 years old. Every 4 letter word that I knew came out of my mouth and within ear shot of my parents. I grew up in a family that never swore, but my parents never said a word about my swearing that day because they understood that my response was a natural one.

Now, it might be the case, the security personnel handled their job appropriately, if so, then the father was in the wrong.

However, when I read the initial story it sounded more like the security went about this in an aggressive manner and were enforcing a law that is silly to begin with. Remember, we're talking about a father who asked his son to hold his beer while he was taking a picture.