OTB and On Track Wagering Experiences.

[craigbraddick]

Hi People:

There are loads of (often humorous) stories on here about peoples experiences at OTB's or betting areas on track.

I am trying to work on player development at the moment.

What do you think racetracks can and should do to make the wagering experience a more customer service oriented experience and what would you like to (realistically) see if you were in charge of such an operation?

I am getting together a list of ideas today to hopefully formulate a plan to maximize our refurbed wagering floor.

Your suggestions are welcome as we want to serve horse players better and give them the respect they deserve.

Thanks,
Craig.

[horses4courses]

Hi People:

There are loads of (often humorous) stories on here about peoples experiences at OTB's or betting areas on track.

I am trying to work on player development at the moment.

What do you think racetracks can and should do to make the wagering experience a more customer service oriented experience and what would you like to (realistically) see if you were in charge of such an operation?

I am getting together a list of ideas today to hopefully formulate a plan to maximize our refurbed wagering floor.

Your suggestions are welcome as we want to serve horse players better and give them the respect they deserve.

Thanks,
Craig.

Will you have a player rewards program?
Very important, imo.

[craigbraddick]

Yes indeed, we will have Total Rewards and I am already working on a way to use it that maximizes the benefit for the horseplayer.

Craig

[horses4courses]

Yes indeed, we will have Total Rewards and I am already working on a way to use it that maximizes the benefit for the horseplayer.

Craig

:ThmbUp:
Every consumer, horse players included, like to feel their business is valued.
With accurate tracking of play, your very best players can be treated as such.

[SharpCat]

Tell me more about your wagering floor.

[craigbraddick]

Well, it is the fourth floor of the main building, above the gaming floor. It has a place where you can get nice diner style food and drinks. Fresh paint everyhere and 60 60 inch tv screens. Plenty of tables and chairs. We also have a black and gold room for higher end players that costs a few dolalrs to enter and a high rollers room that is invite only.

Craig

[DeltaLover]

Hi People:
What do you think racetracks can and should do to make the wagering experience a more customer service oriented experience and what would you like to (realistically) see if you were in charge of such an operation?


(1) Paid entrance

OTB and tracks with free admission (like Aqueduct for example) look like homeless shelters attracting every kind of bums looking for a place to spend the day. A small entrance fee (for example $10) it will be enough to clean the place up. The fee can be refundable beyond a certain total handle for the day (for example after $300).
I think that keeping bums out of the OTB and the track is very important to attract new comers to the game. I regularly see people stepping in to the track area from the casino. They never stay though, after they see the facilities and the quality of the patrons; obviously the prefer to loose their paychecks in the luxury of the casino.

(2) Modern equipment

- Pack the place with HD tvs tuned to every track offered and have at least one giant screen showing the running race.

- Provide free WiFi access and plenty of electrical plugs in case somebody needs to charge his tablet or laptop.

- Have plenty modern betting machines everywhere while discourage betting with a teller

- Provide private betting machines deployed as full blown PC with full internet access

(3) Accommodation

- Provide high quality restaurants serving good food at reasonable prices

_ Nice seating areas where you can stay for the whole day, with running waitress serving coffee and drinks similar to the casino

- After a certain amount of total handle (for example $3,000) provide free lunch, racing form etc in a per day basis

(4) Keep the facility open until at least half an hour after the last race of the day

[horses4courses]

(1) Paid entrance

OTB and tracks with free admission (like Aqueduct for example) look like homeless shelters attracting every kind of bums looking for a place to spend the day. A small entrance fee (for example $10) it will be enough to clean the place up. The fee can be refundable beyond a certain total handle for the day (for example after $300).
I think that keeping bums out of the OTB and the track is very important to attract new comers to the game. I regularly see people stepping in to the track area from the casino. They never stay though, after they see the facilities and the quality of the patrons; obviously the prefer to loose their paychecks in the luxury of the casino.

(2) Modern equipment

- Pack the place with HD tvs tuned to every track offered and have at least one giant screen showing the running race.

- Provide free WiFi access and plenty of electrical plugs in case somebody needs to charge his tablet or laptop.

- Have plenty modern betting machines everywhere while discourage betting with a teller

- Provide private betting machines deployed as full blown PC with full internet access

(3) Accommodation

- Provide high quality restaurants serving good food at reasonable prices

_ Nice seating areas where you can stay for the whole day, with running waitress serving coffee and drinks similar to the casino

- After a certain amount of total handle (for example $3,000) provide free lunch, racing form etc in a per day basis

(4) Keep the facility open until at least half an hour after the last race of the day

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

Good points.

[PhantomOnTour]

$10 cover charge to enter an OTB? :lol:

[DeltaLover]

$10 cover charge to enter an OTB? :lol:

I don't know..

Is it too much?

I have never frequented OTBs but I remember years ago, when sometimes going to the Winner's Cycle here in NYC, I was paying $5 entrance, so I think today is reasonable to charge a bit higher..

[PhantomOnTour]

I don't know..

Is it too much?

I have never frequented OTBs but I remember years ago, when sometimes going to the Winner's Cycle here in NYC, I was paying $5 entrance, so I think today is reasonable to change a bit higher..
Most are free or charge a few bucks - those that charge usually give a voucher for a free soft drink.
$10 is cool if you give a wagering voucher with it...that may stop those with only a few bucks on them from entering.

[craigbraddick]

WIth the gaming floor right below us we cannot charge general admission. However we do charge admission to our higher end rooms.

Craig

[LottaKash]

(1) Paid entrance

OTB and tracks with free admission (like Aqueduct for example) look like homeless shelters attracting every kind of bums looking for a place to spend the day. A small entrance fee (for example $10) it will be enough to clean the place up. The fee can be refundable beyond a certain total handle for the day (for example after $300).
I think that keeping bums out of the OTB and the track is very important to attract new comers to the game.

Delta I agree with much of what you are saying, Especially about the "bums" & "stoopers" and such, but I take exception to a $10 entrance fee....

Many years ago, when I lived in Jersey and on Staten Island for awhile, I would go to the nearest OTB almost daily when I couldn't get out to the track,, and often enough, it was just to get a few wagers in and then leave....And, on the days that I would spend a whole or near whole card, sometimes my budget was only a $100 bucks or even less for the day....So a $10 premium represents a $10% liability right off the bat, to that type of player....

Given that, while we regulars are already, on a steady and ongoing basis, are complaining about paying what we believe to be an already onerous Rake as it is, so how could the $10 surcharge make any sense to the "Little Guys" that we so desperately need to come in, and stay in, this beloved game of ours...?

I don't have any answers here, but 10-Bucks seems a bit too much to me, even as a higher roller on some certain days....

[DeltaLover]

Most are free or charge a few bucks - those that charge usually give a voucher for a free soft drink.
$10 is cool if you give a wagering voucher with it...that may stop those with only a few bucks on them from entering.

I remember years ago, going to Ascot, I had to pay £35 admission fee, translating nearly to $60 by the time if memory serves... Also entering any European casino had a cost as well...

Here in the States we are so spoiled.....

[DeltaLover]

Delta I agree with much of what you are saying, but I take exception to a $10 entrance fee....Especially about the "bums" & "stoopers"..

Many years ago, when I lived in Jersey and on Staten Island for awhile, I would go to the nearest OTB almost daily when I couldn't get out to the track,, and often enough, it was just to get a few wagers in and then leave....And, on the days that I would spend a whole or near whole card, sometimes my budget was only a $100 bucks or even less for the day....So a $10 premium represents a $10% liability right off the bat, to that type of player....

Given that, while we regulars are already, on a steady and ongoing basis, are complaining about paying what we believe to be an already onerous Rake as it is, so how could the $10 surcharge make any sense to the "Little Guys" that we so desperately need to come in, and stay in, this beloved game of ours...?

I don't have any answers here, but 10-Bucks seems a bit too much to me, even as a higher roller on some certain days....

OK.. Maybe $10 is a high, but the idea is to use the fee to control the people entering the facility...

[craigbraddick]

I remember years ago, going to Ascot, I had to pay £35 admission fee, translating nearly to $60 by the time if memory serves... Also entering any European casino had a cost as well...

Here in the States we are so spoiled.....

Hi Delta Lover:

As I am from the UK, I know only too well the high costs of a day at the races that on a day in day out basis is far more of a social event than most race tracks in America and certainly has a bigger effect on the local community.

That said, there is no charge to enter betting shops in the UK. If you have ever been in one you will know they pin the Racing Post up on the walls for players to look at. Would you like to see that here?

Craig

[DeltaLover]

Hi Delta Lover:

As I am from the UK, I know only too well the high costs of a day at the races that on a day in day out basis is far more of a social event than most race tracks in America and certainly has a bigger effect on the local community.

That said, there is no charge to enter betting shops in the UK. If you have ever been in one you will know they pin the Racing Post up on the walls for players to look at. Would you like to see that here?

Craig

No, I am not reffering to the betting shops of course... I mean the casino and the tracks only. I still have my Victory Casino card and clearly remember that I had to pay a fee every night....

I certainly did not like the betting shops in London who have a lot to share with NYC OTBs. I prefer something better, like for example Racing Palace in LI or Borgata's sport's book.

[rastajenk]

I do see much wisdom being gleaned from comparing Ascot to Thistledown. :cool:

[jahura2]

(1) Paid entrance

OTB and tracks with free admission (like Aqueduct for example) look like homeless shelters attracting every kind of bums looking for a place to spend the day. A small entrance fee (for example $10) it will be enough to clean the place up. The fee can be refundable beyond a certain total handle for the day (for example after $300).
I think that keeping bums out of the OTB and the track is very important to attract new comers to the game. I regularly see people stepping in to the track area from the casino. They never stay though, after they see the facilities and the quality of the patrons; obviously the prefer to loose their paychecks in the luxury of the casino.

(2) Modern equipment

- Pack the place with HD tvs tuned to every track offered and have at least one giant screen showing the running race.

- Provide free WiFi access and plenty of electrical plugs in case somebody needs to charge his tablet or laptop.

- Have plenty modern betting machines everywhere while discourage betting with a teller

- Provide private betting machines deployed as full blown PC with full internet access

(3) Accommodation

- Provide high quality restaurants serving good food at reasonable prices

_ Nice seating areas where you can stay for the whole day, with running waitress serving coffee and drinks similar to the casino

- After a certain amount of total handle (for example $3,000) provide free lunch, racing form etc in a per day basis

(4) Keep the facility open until at least half an hour after the last race of the day


I know 10.00 is hard to stomache but I would definitely pay it if I was in a place where I couldnt access my PC or a town without live racing. The betting room would have to be clean, bright, smoke free, and have great HD TV's, courteous customer service and good reasonably priced food. For my 10.00 though I would at least expect a racing form, or Brisnet PP's and maybe 1 beer.
I love your idea Delta but I dont think the States would go for it.

[craigbraddick]

You should have seen Ascot in the old days. A more hoity-toity snobbish up one's own backside, 1950's Grandstand and let us look down upon you little people attitude dripped from the buildings and its staff.

The new Ascot is "Tony Blair and David Cameron" style snobbishness personified. Both suck, but in different ways!

Racng is always great though!

Craig.

[LottaKash]

Most are free or charge a few bucks - those that charge usually give a voucher for a free soft drink.
$10 is cool if you give a wagering voucher with it...that may stop those with only a few bucks on them from entering.

I like the voucher angle "the best", as a deterrent to undesirables....

But only as a 100% return, to be used for wagering.....I wouldn't pay it otherwise...

The same for the casinos, I seriously suspect that if casinos charged admission, it would severely hamper their business in a very noticeable way....It is just the principle of it.....

And so it is with me about OTB-Simulcast like places....I wouldn't pay it...

Years ago I would have probably paid it, and that is because back then I was an out and out "action-junkie", and I would often go out of my way to get that "action" in.....Not today....I would quit first, I think....The principle of it, I guess....

Of course, with "big days" such as Ascot or the BC & TC races, sure I would pay it, just not on a daily basis for me...

[wiffleball whizz]

Absolutely love the $10 admission charge which would be refunded after they bet x amount of money

Sick and tired of being at otb that are social handouts where Everybody is standing around playing pocket pool and not betting and taking up space....when im there I'm there to gamble

PLEASE if you see guys at machines constantly putting losing tix through the machine kick them the f*** out!!!!!!! And 10 percenters kick them out too....

As for being player friendly after u eliminate the people that aren't betting/and stooping you can throw a FREE soda fountain in there.....don't let the casino tell u no.....put your foot down and stand up for the horseplayers!!!! No reason to make a player spend 3.50 on a soda when he could gamble the 3.50 instead!!!
A soda fountain cost pennies and would make the players feel appreciated.....they casino players are getting the free drinks.....we should be no different

Best of luck to you.....remember as a private company they can throw out whoever they want......

[alydar]

10 is way too much. You do not need to charge much at all to weed out the riff raff. When I lived in Chicago the Jackson street OTB charged 1 dollar to get to the top floor. That is all it took to make a huge difference in the crowd.

Aacess to an OTB should not be compared to a track. Many come in and place a bet or two and leave. There should little or no charge for that.

[DeltaLover]

Sick and tired of being at otb that are social handouts where Everybody is standing around playing pocket pool and not betting and taking up space....when im there I'm there to gamble

PLEASE if you see guys at machines constantly putting losing tix through the machine kick them the f*** out!!!!!!! And 10 percenters kick them out too....



At Aqueduct I see people entering the track as soon as the gate opens, finding a seat at a table or booth where they will spend the whole day socializing with their friends without even having a racing form or a program.

Their handle for the day has to average around $10.

They constantly are collecting tickets from the floor trying to find a winner....

They usually bring food from outside trying to not spend a penny while at the track.

The few times they are approaching the betting windows (betting even with coins) they are very rude always trying to get ahead of you behaving like animals.

If you forget something in your table, like a pen or even a program chances are that it will immediately disappear...

True story:

A winter Monday some years ago, I am betting at the Kelso room which had free access due to AQU not running...

When the first is over at Philly the guy seating next to me starts screaming like crazy, banging the tables and jumping up and down ...

If this was the last race at AQU I would have guessed he had hit the P6.

What puzzled me was that it was the first race at PHI where the second choice had just nailed the chalk...

I was tempted to ask him and he told me that he had bet the only $2 that he came with to the track, to the chalky exacta and now he had enough to go back to his neighborhood to play domino with his friends!

[thaskalos]

If I were a manager of an OTB...my first order of business would be to acquaint myself with the best customers of the place. It shouldn't be that hard to find out who the biggest bettors in the place are. Once I determined who those players were...then none of those players would ever be handed a check again for anything that they ate or drank in the place. There is nothing more ridiculous than handing a $20 lunch check to a guy who has thousands of dollars-worth of losing tickets on his desk.

I lived in Oakbrook up 'till ten years ago...and I frequented the Oakbrook Terrace OTB which was located there. Word came out one day that there was going to be a new manager in the place...and those of us who were regular customers were wondering what the new manager would be like. Well...the new guy made his appearance a few days later, and introduced himself to us. He told us that he was new to horse racing...but that he had a few innovative ideas that he would be trying out at this particular location.

After the day's play...it was time for me to go home, and I asked the waitress for my check. She told me that there would be no check...because it was picked up by the new manager.

I saw the manager the next day I was there...and I made it a point to thank him for his nice gesture the previous day. He quickly replied to me that HE should be the one who should be thanking ME, for my loyal patronage...and that he would be picking up my check every time he saw me in the place. And that he did.

One day I was there when the manager was not...and I asked for my check again. The waitress told me that there was no check for me...and that the manager had informed the serving staff that a handful of us regulars were to be comped our meals and drinks whether the manager was there or not.

A very classy gesture...which made such an impression on me that I vividly remember it 15 years later.

You would think that an innovative thinker like that would be appreciated by his place of business...especially since that OTB got to a point where it was advertised as the highest grossing OTB in the entire state. But, NO! He was let go shortly thereafter...with no reason ever given for his dismissal.

And, not surprisingly, the Oakbrook Terrace OTB has been reduced to being one of the worst OTBs in the state.

Take care of the little things...because little things mean a lot...

[wiffleball whizz]

At Aqueduct I see people entering the track as soon as the gate opens, finding a seat at a table or booth where they will spend the whole day socializing with their friends without even having a racing form or a program.

Their handle for the day has to average around $10.

They constantly are collecting tickets from the floor trying to find a winner....

They usually bring food from outside trying to not spend a penny while at the track.

The few times they are approaching the betting windows (betting even with coins) they are very rude always trying to get ahead of you behaving like animals.

If you forget something in your table, like a pen or even a program chances are that it will immediately disappear...

True story:

A winter Monday some years ago, I am betting at the Kelso room which had free access due to AQU not running...

When the first is over at Philly the guy seating next to me starts screaming like crazy, banging the tables and jumping up and down ...

If this was the last race at AQU I would have guessed he had hit the P6.

What puzzled me was that it was the first race at PHI where the second choice had just nailed the chalk...

I was tempted to ask him and he told me that he had bet the only $2 that he came with to the track, to the chalky exacta and now he had enough to go back to his neighborhood to play domino with his friends!

Good post delta.......throw them out.....

Was at laurel the other night and one bum was constantly putting losers through the one good machine.....good I mean u put the ticket in a hole not a platform that sucked the ticket in.....we don't need this scum on the grounds of wagering places....

Some of us do bet horses outside the comforts of our house and not on a computer......I don't wanna be subject to being around human filth like these stiffboxes at otb......reminder this scum can be the person who gets the $65 voucher your friend father or wife left at the machine,...

If there were 75 whiffleball whizz at the track it would be a class establishment....too much dead wood is at these places

[LottaKash]

While we are on the "OTB" subject, I would like to share an amusing anecdotal-otb-like story with you....

While living for a time on Staten Island, I lived in the upstairs abode of a two story duplex house...

Back in the late 70's, while sunning my myself one day on the front porch of the landlord who was an "Italian" guy, and who always seemed to be very well dressed, I suddenly got all flushed when the "Italian Landlord suddenly happened on me as I was sitting there, as I know how territorial people can be at times....He said " I see you got a horse book that you are reading". "Do any Good?"....I said, I do Ok some days....Got any "tips?"....Nah, I wouldn't want anybody to bet on my mistakes.....He said "I gotcha, but who do you like anyway ?".... So I gave him a horse....It won that nite and paid $20 something and change, and from then on I became his "buddy", a scared one tho...

So one day, I really was high on a horse, and the 'Italian landlord" was sitting outside with me on his front porch, and I asked him if he knew any reliable "bookies"?....He laughed, and said, "I think I can help you with that"....He asked "why?"....Now at the time OTB had that 5% surcharge on winnings, and I began to realize that I was losing money on that premise, and I said as much about that, to him.... He said "kid I am going to help you with that"....

He sent me to an "Italian-American Club" that was located right near the Verrazano Narrows Bridge....The last exit off the expressway before the bridge....

So I find the place, and on the ouside of the building were 3-gigantic satellite dishes just off to the right.....I see a door that said "members-only" and as I was instructed to, I knocked on it, and just like the "speakeasys" of the 20's, a little window in the door opens up, and a guy says "yeah", and a I replied, RitchieA said I could come here.....He said "Oh yeah, you're that kid hunh ?...

So I get inside, and the room is massive with tables full of people sitting and doping out the races and reading the sports pages.....There is a big buffet off to the left front of the room and at the front of the room are are about a half dozen guys taking & paying off bets, while they were smoking their big fat cigars.....I was like a kid in a candy store, and I said to myself "damn, this is the next best thing to going to a racetrack....I was home ! :jump: I mean, back then this was a very big deal, as you could bet just about any track or team from around the whole US of A....with free programs to boot..

A big guy with a white apron on from the waist down, named "Fat Tony", comes up to me, and says "sit anywhere you like kid, and ya gotta try the Meatballs"....

I asked him if you sell beer ?....And he gives me a wink and says "what'll you have" ?....He brings me the beer and I ask how much, he gives me a funny look and a wry smile, and says, "on da house kid", ask me anytime, always on da house".....Man this was living, I thought....

I was a struggling action-junkie back then, and I bet every race all day long.....So it was always "come back soon kid".....

Then about 6 months later, I had fallen on hard times....I was going thru a divorce, and my drinking was becoming out of control,and it seemed that I couldn't even pick my nose any longer.....

One day I shot my load early in the card and was marching off toward the door, and Fat Tony said to me "what's up kid, leaving so soon ?".....I said yeah out of bucks.....So Fat Tony says, "kid no problem, we can take your marker, you know give you credit", go up front and see Louie on da side"....

So they gave me $500 bucks to spend at the place, and I blew that too in a couple of days.....Well, the rest of the story goes like this: I am into these guys for $2700 dollars, with no sign of the blood letting on the horizon anytime soon, so one day Fat Tony comes up to me and says, "I hate to tell you this kid but Louie wants to have a little talk with you.....I have the talk with Louie, and it wasn't very pleasant to say the least....I became very afraid from then on.....

One day later, in the morning while coming home from the night shift, I see Ritchie my landlord sitting on the front porch, and he says to me "Johhny U, Louie doesn't want you to come back anymore"....I said I know why Ritchie....And, he said "what do you plan to do with this ?".....I said I plan to pay it all back as soon as I can....Ritchie said "good kid, that's all I wanted to hear....."Kid, I paid off your loan for you, and you can forget about the vigorish too, that's on me kid"....."You are too straight for those guys"...

Until I moved away a year later, Ritchie the Landlord and I remained friends and when I couldn't get to the track, from then on he personally booked my bets for me....And, I always paid "upfront"....

I miss the "meatballs", even still...

[SharpCat]

Here are a few ideas.

1. I agree with thask. Find out who your bigger players are and comp them food and drink up to a certain amount every time. Take a few minutes to thank them for there play and let them know they are comped anytime they come in.

2. In the VIP rooms where you charge admission provide free programs. Our local otb provided free programs to any who paid admission to the VIP room. It saves the patrons who spend good money time. They can bypass the program stand and get programs at their leisure.

3. Track selection. You want to carry lot's of tracks. Our otb carried closed to 40 tracks on Friday and Saturday. You want to give your players lot's of chances to place wagers.

4. Make sure you have plenty of SAM machines. You want it make it very hard for someone to get shutout especially if they are wagering good money.

5. Good quality food and drink at reasonable prices.

[RunForTheRoses]

While I can sympathize with those who despise losers at the track/otb (not the ones you tear up although those suck too) I don't think there should be any charge (what if you are a good citizen Horseplayer and you just want to step into the OTB for a short stay, for example).
A generous rewards program is great, lus the TVs.
Also a good Admin/Adman as they are called in Las Vegas, that is the person who controls the TVs, recently I was at an OTB and it was getting towards 5:00, I wanted to bet Del Mar, i think inarguably one of the top tracks in the nation, and I could find but one TV squirreled away in the corner on a set with a decrepit picture. Meanwhile, third tier establishments were given prominence.
I agree with good food and drink, a Brew Pub/Ale House would fit in with the times, might attract younger patrons.

[RunForTheRoses]

[QUOTE=LottaKash]While we are on the "OTB" subject, I would like to share an amusing anecdotal-otb-like story with you....

While living for a time on Staten Island, I lived in the upstairs abode of a two story duplex house...

<Snip>

Great story! Although you sound crazy taking such a walk on the wild side at least back then. You might have been on a path to taking swimming laps with Luca Brasi.

[RunForTheRoses]

Plenty of working Self Machines and on big days pleanty of tellers. I was a teller at one time but hate betting with them. Hate when there are only a few working ones that patrons, including Losers, have to fight over.

Also. an occasional contest may be a good idea. I know Delaware has contests once a month which offer HPWS entry to winner, for example.

[Robert Goren]

If you charge $10 at small track, you will have about 5 people there, if that. The big bettors are going to bet on the internet no matter what you do. Your customers are retired people looking for way to kill an afternoon at the OTB/simulcast center. Night live racing is a different crowd. But they still aren't going to be huge bettors. If there one I would say. " Keep the place clean all the time especially the restrooms. Hire people who don't gamble to that." Make sure all your employees are handling their jobs before they are doing their own betting. You need a "hard-ass" supervisor to watch that.

[proximity]

total rewards?

sounds like some kind of caesar's racino like chester. they aren't going to charge admission.

[craigbraddick]

total rewards?

sounds like some kind of caesar's racino like chester. they aren't going to charge admission.


That is because it is! Only better than Chester. We have Thoroughbred Horse racing not horse and cart racing! ;)

Craig

[LottaKash]

[

You might have been on a path to taking swimming laps with Luca Brasi.

Funny that you mention Luca Brasi, as I am watching the Godfather, as I am sitting here right now....The Godfather just sent him on a quest to find out more about the D'talias link to narcotics...

[RunForTheRoses]

Funny that you mention Luca Brasi, as I am watching the Godfather, as I am sitting here right now....The Godfather just sent him on a quest to find out more about the D'talias link to narcotics...


>>>The Godfather just sent him on a quest to find out more about the D'talias link to narcotics
Twasn't a good idea lol. And how about Fish, can't believe he's still kicking four decades later...or is he...
http://www.abevigoda.com/

About a month ago I rewatched the first two movies on Blu Ray, they are classics. I have a copy of the third Sofia C directed movie, I have never seen that one, maybe I'll watch it this weekend if I have time.

[Zydeco]

Funny that you mention Luca Brasi, as I am watching the Godfather, as I am sitting here right now....The Godfather just sent him on a quest to find out more about the D'talias link to narcotics...

Hunch play......My Luca is running in the first at Presque Isle in 6 mins. :lol:

[Zydeco]

Came in second....he will sleep with the fishes. Back to topic.

[wiffleball whizz]

That is because it is! Only better than Chester. We have Thoroughbred Horse racing not horse and cart racing! ;)

Craig

Let's not get carried away.....horse and cart racing put food on this guys table the last 8 months!!!!!

And before we get carried away with being better then Chester (not to be confused with the harness horse better then cheddar) harrahs Chester is a top notch casino with top notch poker room and races!!!!!

But I will give tdn a shot when I go out there later in the year

Harness racing > flats

[thespaah]

This is really simple.
Treat all patrons as though they were valued customers.
Offer perks to higher volume players.
For example, once a player churns say $200 on a given race day, offer them a voucher for reduced price admission to one of the 'higher end rooms'..
Once they churn $500 on a given day, offer food or beverage vouchers. And not just a few bucks.
Figure out a system to track the play of frequent visitors.
Creature comforts. Chairs and benches. Tables for those who like to spread out their stuff.
Have a concierge type person walk the floor and ask the patrons if there is anything they require or just to ask how their evening or day is going. A PR type individual if you will. Not a butt kisser. A real customer service person who knows how to interact with bettors.
Oh....Make sure the place is kept clean.

[Stillriledup]

To touch on what Thas says in post 25, its important to know who the good customers are. One thing i know is that its important to treat people like VIPs.

Big bettors should have some privacy, they should be able to wager without the "entire world" knowing they have a 5k voucher in the SAM machine or tha they have walked up to the 100 dollar window and are forced to pull out a roll of 100s in front of the general populus.

I like the ideas that "big bettors" dont have to pay for stuff. Have a plan where if the bettor can show 5 losing tickets that total up to 300 bucks, they can get free forms and coffee and a refund of their 10 dollar "anti riff raff" admission. Also, don't make them sign up for anything, these people don't want to give names, addresses or phone numbers, be discreet, they'll love you for it.

[thespaah]

That is because it is! Only better than Chester. We have Thoroughbred Horse racing not horse and cart racing! ;)

Craig
A problem with Standardbred racing, have we?

[thespaah]

I must ad this.....Find a way to keep the bums, stoopers and ten percenters out. If one is there to be a nuisance, is unclean, or just a bad actor. Throw them out and ban them.

[Stillriledup]

I must ad this.....Find a way to keep the bums, stoopers and ten percenters out. If one is there to be a nuisance, is unclean, or just a bad actor. Throw them out and ban them.

I agree. If you see someone milling around that's not really a horseplayer, has no DRF under his arm, doesnt appear to be interesting in what's going on with racing on the track or tvs, its easy to spot these leeches and evict them from the property.

[Charli125]

I like the ideas that "big bettors" dont have to pay for stuff. Have a plan where if the bettor can show 5 losing tickets that total up to 300 bucks, they can get free forms and coffee and a refund of their 10 dollar "anti riff raff" admission. Also, don't make them sign up for anything, these people don't want to give names, addresses or phone numbers, be discreet, they'll love you for it.

Why does everyone keep talking about losing tickets? The OTB makes the same whether you win or lose, so if you think it should be handle based, then it should be handle based, not losing tickets based.

Other than that, great comments from everyone. Sounds like a good place to visit.

[craigbraddick]

A problem with Standardbred racing, have we?


No, but given the choice between Thoroughbred racing and Standardbred racing as a spectacle and for wagering, I would choose TB racing every time.

Standardbred Racing may be great for some people.

Craig

[craigbraddick]

Let's not get carried away.....horse and cart racing put food on this guys table the last 8 months!!!!!

And before we get carried away with being better then Chester (not to be confused with the harness horse better then cheddar) harrahs Chester is a top notch casino with top notch poker room and races!!!!!

But I will give tdn a shot when I go out there later in the year

Harness racing > flats

Wiffle:

Let me know when you are coming out, you will get lunch, a clubhouse table and PP's gratis.

Craig

[wiffleball whizz]

Wiffle:

Let me know when you are coming out, you will get lunch, a clubhouse table and PP's gratis.

Craig

Early December or January.....gotta see a friend that works at Cleveland horseshoe........I will def pm you when I go out there....as a rule any time a track rep as yourself asks for advice that means he cares and I'll support that wagering product....

Same with casinos....if I see a poker director posting on poker forums that shows me they care and as a result they get my action

Hopefully see you soon

[thaskalos]

Why does everyone keep talking about losing tickets? The OTB makes the same whether you win or lose, so if you think it should be handle based, then it should be handle based, not losing tickets based.

Other than that, great comments from everyone. Sounds like a good place to visit.

I said "losing tickets" because those are more noticeable.

[appistappis]

No, but given the choice between Thoroughbred racing and Standardbred racing as a spectacle and for wagering, I would choose TB racing every time.

Standardbred Racing may be great for some people.

Craig

As I tell the guys at my otb, thoroughbreds are a thing of royalty, standardbreds deliver milk.

[Longshot6977]

10 is way too much. You do not need to charge much at all to weed out the riff raff. When I lived in Chicago the Jackson street OTB charged 1 dollar to get to the top floor. That is all it took to make a huge difference in the crowd.

Freehold clubhouse charges $2 until 10pm , then it's free. It really does keep the bums out(until 10pm). It's funny to see them wait by the elevator at 9:55p to go up to the top floor. At 10:01, they come streaming in. So a dollar or two does the trick.

Also, I'm pretty sure if an OTW place wants to keep riff raff out, another way is to just have a dress code like no sleeveless shirts, shorts or whatever. That will keep certain people out.

A player rewards card would be a nice thing as well as free PP's or a drink after betting something like $200. People want their business to be appreciated.

A security guard should go around and toss/warn people who obviously are loud and drunk and boisterous since they bother the other patrons. This also 'cleans' the place up.

As mentioned, lots of SAM machines as well as a host/hostess with good customer service skills who walks around and helps people learn to use the machines and maybe answer questions and assist those who may need it. Even have Tiny Tim machines (tabletop betting terminals). Favorites in Woodbridge, NJ just added wireless buttons at each desk to alert the waitress you want service( no funny remarks). She comes over in one minute. Patrons love this new feature.

As mentioned, plenty of tables/desk areas and comfortable chairs, with electrical outlets and wifi.

Large screen HDTV's. The largest one should show the upcoming race.

Good luck and I hope your efforts are a great success.:)

[ronsmac]

Get rid of the stoopers, If it's so bad you have to scrounge the tables and floors for tickets, you shouldn't be at the track in the first place. Pimlico had about 10 guys who've made a living for years doing just that. They're either looming at the self service terminals hoping someone leaves a ticket, or swiping tickets off your table in the hopes you missed a scratch, or just holding up the betting machines as they run hundreds of tickets through. I've stopped going to Pimlico about 7 yrs now because of this, so maybe they've cleaned it up since then, I can't say for sure. Of course all the other horseplayer suggestions are appreciated also.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

When I walk into a place to bet the ponies, the first and foremost thing is to be treated politely and with respect. All the other "perks" mean nothing without that, and since every player has his/her pet peeves, it's tough to make everyone happy after that anyway.

- tellers that smile, say "good luck" and place change out first when cashing tickets
- servers that smile, come by on a frequent basis, and remember you're the customer (I know horseplayers tend to be poor tippers, but c'mon)
- management that listens to the player's complaints, and resolves the ones that reoccur

things I look for:
- free ice water, free or low-priced pop, occasional free snacks, free programs, sound turned up on "main" track running, or logical rotation through the live races (Rockford OTB used to do that well)

things I detest:
- stoopers, ten percenters, loud talking all the way across the room, dirty and/or smelly latrine, tellers and servers acting like they're doing you a favor

How to attract new players? That's a tough one....

[Robert Goren]

I know this is small thing. Make sure the teller never says "thank you" to some one who just made a bet. A lot of people consider it bad luck. Have them say "Good Luck" instead. Make sure your automatic teller do the same. You should never hear "thank you " in any gambling joint. "Good Luck" should replace it every situation.
If your place isn't already smoke free , make it so. Non smoker will not tolerate smoking sections anymore. And if some of you employees smoke, make sure they are hidden from the public. A bunch of smokers standing around the entrance really makes the place look trashy. I sorry if I offend any smokers, but in business smoke costs a lot more business than it brings in these days.

[RunForTheRoses]

I know this is small thing. Make sure the teller never says "thank you" to some one who just made a bet. A lot of people consider it bad luck. Have them say "Good Luck" instead. Make sure your automatic teller do the same. You should never hear "thank you " in any gambling joint. "Good Luck" should replace it every situation.
If your place isn't already smoke free , make it so. Non smoker will not tolerate smoking sections anymore. And if some of you employees smoke, make sure they are hidden from the public. A bunch of smokers standing around the entrance really makes the place look trashy. I sorry if I offend any smokers, but in business smoke costs a lot more business than it brings in these days.

Actually, from my experience as a Teller horseheads loathe being wished Good Luck. I remember in Vegas the Teller next to me, who didn't have knowledge of the Horse racing crowd, wished Good Luck to a regular who thought he was God's gift to Handicapping and he got all offended, He didn't need luck he had talent. From what I remember I don't recall seeing him using the Racebook as his personal ATM, whatever.

[RunForTheRoses]

- tellers that smile, say "good luck" and place change out first when cashing tickets
- servers that smile, come by on a frequent basis, and remember you're the customer (I know horseplayers tend to be poor tippers, but c'mon)

Which means they will have to pay these employees a decent wage/benefits, probably ain't gonna happen.

[thaskalos]

Perhaps I have become "institutionalized", but I no longer mind the stoopers or the 10%ers. Certain unsavory characters are to be expected in gambling institutions...and I tolerate them as long as I am not affected by them in an obvious way.

But there are certain things that take place at the OTBs that should not be tolerated by anyone...much less the "managers" who run these places.

Vile obscenities being shouted out as the races are going on, while women and even children are sitting within earshot...that's my major complaint. And also those morons who feel that they are the only ones who are getting "unlucky"...and they feel compelled to stand up and loudly complain every time they lose a race, while they show their losing tickets to the poor guys who are unlucky enough to be sitting near them.

We know that the cream of the crop is not likely to be found at an OTB...but we shouldn't have to tolerate the scum of the earth either...

[wiffleball whizz]

Perhaps I have become "institutionalized", but I no longer mind the stoopers or the 10%ers. Certain unsavory characters are to be expected in gambling institutions...and I tolerate them as long as I am not affected by them in an obvious way.

But there are certain things that take place at the OTBs that should not be tolerated by anyone...much less the "managers" who run these places.

Vile obscenities being shouted out as the races are going on, while women and even children are sitting within earshot...that's my major complaint. And also those morons who feel that they are the only ones who are getting "unlucky"...and they feel compelled to stand up and loudly complain every time they lose a race, while they show their losing tickets to the poor guys who are unlucky enough to be sitting near them.

We know that the cream of the crop is not likely to be found at an OTB...but we shouldn't have to tolerate the scum of the earth either...

Hahahahahahaha that's great......but in all honesty I like hearing cursing and moaning more then seeing stoopers and 10 percenters

As long as people are using the "c word" then it's open game at otb Hahahahaha

[thespaah]

I know this is small thing. Make sure the teller never says "thank you" to some one who just made a bet. A lot of people consider it bad luck. Have them say "Good Luck" instead. Make sure your automatic teller do the same. You should never hear "thank you " in any gambling joint. "Good Luck" should replace it every situation.
If your place isn't already smoke free , make it so. Non smoker will not tolerate smoking sections anymore. And if some of you employees smoke, make sure they are hidden from the public. A bunch of smokers standing around the entrance really makes the place look trashy. I sorry if I offend any smokers, but in business smoke costs a lot more business than it brings in these days.
I would prefer "thank you" as opposed to 'good luck'..Handicapping the horses or sports for that matter is an operation in the elimination of 'luck'...Therefore a thanks or thank you will suffice.
I expect the craps or black jack dealer who sells me the chips to say 'good luck'..Those are games of chance. Luck does in fact enter the equation.

[thespaah]

Perhaps I have become "institutionalized", but I no longer mind the stoopers or the 10%ers. Certain unsavory characters are to be expected in gambling institutions...and I tolerate them as long as I am not affected by them in an obvious way.

But there are certain things that take place at the OTBs that should not be tolerated by anyone...much less the "managers" who run these places.

Vile obscenities being shouted out as the races are going on, while women and even children are sitting within earshot...that's my major complaint. And also those morons who feel that they are the only ones who are getting "unlucky"...and they feel compelled to stand up and loudly complain every time they lose a race, while they show their losing tickets to the poor guys who are unlucky enough to be sitting near them.

We know that the cream of the crop is not likely to be found at an OTB...but we shouldn't have to tolerate the scum of the earth either...
"Institutionalized"..Thank you "Ellis "Red" Redding"...
I tend to ignore the deabeats, bums, 10%ers and stoopers until one of these miscreants decides I am a welcoming conversationalist. Then I run them off.
My point in getting these people out is to make those who are new to the game feel like they are going into a 'reasonable' place where the management cares about the image of the shop.

[RunForTheRoses]

[QUOTE=thaskalos]

Vile obscenities being shouted out as the races are going on, while women and even children are sitting within earshot...that's my major complaint. And also those morons who feel that they are the only ones who are getting "unlucky"...and they feel compelled to stand up and loudly complain every time they lose a race, while they show their losing tickets to the poor guys who are unlucky enough to be sitting near them.

-Have to totally agree with you, unfortunately I don't see it changing, some horseplayers seem to be totally dysfunctional, they sound like they enjoy complaining and acting a fool. What you describe is behavior I see at many facilities around here.

[Longshot6977]

-Have to totally agree with you, unfortunately I don't see it changing, some horseplayers seem to be totally dysfunctional, they sound like they enjoy complaining and acting a fool. What you describe is behavior I see at many facilities around here.

Nothing a security guard can't handle by tossing them or politely warning them to keep it down. But some are very lax and just don't want to get involved or put any effort into their job.

[Robert Goren]

My dad would never go back to a teller who said "thank you". Maybe it is best if they say nothing. But seems some people want some sort of acknowledgement. I know "thank you" is the wrong kind.

[thaskalos]

My dad would never go back to a teller who said "thank you". Maybe it is best if they say nothing. But seems some people want some sort of acknowledgement. I know "thank you" is the wrong kind.

Kinda hard to get upset at someone who says "thank you" to you...isn't it?

[appistappis]

A few years ago (I'm a craps dealer) a guy throws me a hundred bucks and I cut out 20 reds, give it to him and say good luck. he growls "you don't care what kind of luck I have....10 min later he buys in again, i cut out the cheques and pass them to him and say "I hope you lose it all sir".....he never said a thing.

[Robert Goren]

Kinda hard to get upset at someone who says "thank you" to you...isn't it?Not if you believe it is bad luck.

[Robert Goren]

A few years ago (I'm a craps dealer) a guy throws me a hundred bucks and I cut out 20 reds, give it to him and say good luck. he growls "you don't care what kind of luck I have....10 min later he buys in again, i cut out the cheques and pass them to him and say "I hope you lose it all sir".....he never said a thing. My dad would have loved you. He wanted to you act like the money he wins comes out your pocket.

[proximity]

let's face it with a harrah's right downstairs..... I don't see excessive stooping and swearing as a being a big problem here.

[JohnGalt1]

No one has yet mentioned the information booth.

Make sure it is staffed with knowledgeable people with great people skills, and if they don't know an answer to question or how to handle a problem, will find someone to help.

[wiffleball whizz]

A few years ago (I'm a craps dealer) a guy throws me a hundred bucks and I cut out 20 reds, give it to him and say good luck. he growls "you don't care what kind of luck I have....10 min later he buys in again, i cut out the cheques and pass them to him and say "I hope you lose it all sir".....he never said a thing.

Hahahahahahahahahaha......some players are the scum of the earth..

Was dealing a 600/1200 7 stud hi low game at borgata in 2007 when I completely buried a guy....just to try and f*** throws 25k down and says "all black" now the rack didn't have 25k in black but it was close so I
Threw some purple in the mix.....took almost half the half hour to
Do this the players were laughing.....now keep in mind the time charge was like $17 a half hour....

Next hand on a A345 showing the guy keeps firing 1200 every street and guy calls him down with 9s this guy bricked all the whole cards....this was my
Last hand......

Now if anybody knows botgata poker room the back
Table in high limit this guy who was I think lebanese from the back of the poker room to the front table in room followed me and said "you mother**** c*** su****......My insides hurt from trying to hold in the laughter...he was fuming

Now next week there was some big music mogul playing in a 100-200 no limit game the Lebanese guy has pocket AA other guy has A9 board is A9954.....lebanese buried him for like 34000 in the hand and threw me like $460......I just laughed