Saratoga - Fourstardave Handicap Race 10

[raybo]

Sar 8/10/2013 - Race 10

Early pace rankings (EPP) followed by final finish rankings (PFV):

Race 10
Early Pace Picture 4 5 6 1
PFV Picture 1 6 4 5

Nothing surprising in this one, IMO.

[BlueChip@DRF]

:6: King Kreesa for the upset

[raybo]

:6: King Kreesa for the upset

That's the horse I would bet, considering the likely prices, but with the turf a bit soft, if he gets the lead and gets some pressure, he might get beat late.

Strictly on early velocities through the second call, 6 doesn't have the lead, but running style says he will. That running style could get him in trouble late, on this surface.

[CincyHorseplayer]

No bet.I considered the outside horse but Wise Dan looks tough and the rail on the turf isn't bad today.

BTW Ray,I went up a 25% level on the bet app today!

[raybo]

Well, finished just like it should have. 1 6

[BlueChip@DRF]

Lost but game!

[horses4courses]

They used to accuse Zenyatta of beating up on tomato cans, didn't they?

http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/169/169,1329114260,2/stock-vector-tomato-can-95018050.jpg

[raybo]

No bet.I considered the outside horse but Wise Dan looks tough and the rail on the turf isn't bad today.

BTW Ray,I went up a 25% level on the bet app today!

There wasn't any doubt, was there? :eek:

It will work, but watch the stop/loss stuff. I wouldn't ignore it, increased bet sizes can eat at that last profit pretty quick.

Here's hoping you make it to the 2nd profit level quickly!!

[raybo]

They used to accuse Zenyatta of beating up on tomato cans, didn't they?

http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/169/169,1329114260,2/stock-vector-tomato-can-95018050.jpg

Well, if you're comparing WiseDan with Zenyata, I suppose you might have a point. But, I don't think I'd go there with the comparison. At least not yet anyway. This race was about what I expected, a close finish between the 1 and 6, with the 1 getting to the wire first.

[SharpCat]

Well, if you're comparing WiseDan with Zenyata, I suppose you might have a point. But, I don't think I'd go there with the comparison. At least not yet anyway. This race was about what I expected, a close finish between the 1 and 6, with the 1 getting to the wire first.


I agree it's hard to compare the two. Zenyatta won 14 Grade 1's to Wise Dan's 6.

[Phantombridgejumpe]

Yes, Zenyatta was awesome AND picked her spots. You can do both.

[Some_One]

I agree it's hard to compare the two. Zenyatta won 14 Grade 1's to Wise Dan's 6.

If Wise Dan could run in female-restricted races, I'm sure he would have 14 G1's as well

[Tom]

The King ran a good race - the rest of the files were worthless.
When the HOY is making only his second start of the year and in a field like this, not easy to be impressed. He should have run in the Whitney, or Woodward. Mile
grass races - against this level..... :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping:

Wake me up when he tries some good horses. Why doesn't he cross the Rockies ( :D ) and try GOD? He could run on poly and face a real race horse - or is that not in his plans?

[VeryOldMan]

When the HOY is making only his second start of the year and in a field like this, not easy to be impressed. He should have run in the Whitney, or Woodward. Mile grass races - against this level..... :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping:

Wake me up when he tries some good horses. Why doesn't he cross the Rockies ( :D ) and try GOD? He could run on poly and face a real race horse - or is that not in his plans?

Agreed - this is what I hate about the Breeders Cup; these horses can run in their narrow zone of comfort and don't have to race against each other, either in the BC or in the prep races. I'm a Wise Dan fan but the HOY is discounted when a horse can stay in a narrow window. We'll never again see races like Seattle Slew v. Affirmed, Exceller upsetting both of them subsequently, etc.

[OntheRail]

The simple fact is Wise Dan spotted as many as 13.25 cans of 14.5oz stewed tomatoes. And still won under a hand ride. I enjoyed every stride of the race.

Tom as we well know the path ends at the Breeder's Cup for better or worse... the Cup runith over all.

[cordep17]

If Wise Dan could run in female-restricted races, I'm sure he would have 14 G1's as well

Are you hinting that Zenny wasn't actually a girl, and she was just running over an athletically inferior gender?

[Tom]

The simple fact is Wise Dan spotted as many as 13.25 cans of 14.5oz stewed tomatoes. And still won under a hand ride. I enjoyed every stride of the race.

Tom as we well know the path ends at the Breeder's Cup for better or worse... the Cup runith over all.

Yup - the BS is the worst thing to ever happen to racing.
They used to win titles by racing. Get rid of the whole idea and bring back the Fall Championships - were real race horses run. Can't get excited about this one's "campaign."

[VeryOldMan]

Yup - the BS is the worst thing to ever happen to racing.
They used to win titles by racing. Get rid of the whole idea and bring back the Fall Championships - were real race horses run. Can't get excited about this one's "campaign."

What a crazy idea - the best horses having to race against the best horses over multiple races. That might determine a true Horse of the Year. Heaven forbid!

Meanwhile, let's tune into 15 Breeders Cup races that are guaranteed to atomize the talent . . . .

[tanner12oz]

If usain bolt wins 8 straight sprints do people knock him for not running marathons? Wise Dan is the king of the mile turf...dont fault him...fault his company for not being able to make him break a sweat

[tanner12oz]

The King ran a good race - the rest of the files were worthless.
When the HOY is making only his second start of the year and in a field like this, not easy to be impressed. He should have run in the Whitney, or Woodward. Mile
grass races - against this level..... :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping:

Wake me up when he tries some good horses. Why doesn't he cross the Rockies ( :D ) and try GOD? He could run on poly and face a real race horse - or is that not in his plans?
4th start of the year?

[SharpCat]

If Wise Dan could run in female-restricted races, I'm sure he would have 14 G1's as well


How about Wise Dan running in G1's period instead of Grade2's.

[raybo]

Well, I for one, have never said WiseDan was, or is, the best thing since sliced bread, but the fact remains that against this field the horse should have won, and did.

He has won, multiple times, on dirt, on synthetic, and on turf, and at multiple distances, and on off tracks as well as on fast tracks, and on the East Coast and the West Coast, in the North and in the South, from the inside post and the outside post, on or near the lead, as well as off the lead, with several different riders.

And in this race, spotted every other horse at least 11 pounds, could easily have been pinned on the rail, but was able to move off the rail in time to display his superiority, while being under a hand ride all the way. And won from off the pace in a less than blistering pace.

Considering all the above, I'd say, WiseDan is a pretty damn good horse.

Should he have won this race? Of course, but then many who should win, don't.

I enjoyed the race immensely, and that isn't the case most of the time.

But, if it makes you feel better by being negative, I hope you feel great now.

[cj]

If usain bolt wins 8 straight sprints do people knock him for not running marathons? Wise Dan is the king of the mile turf...dont fault him...fault his company for not being able to make him break a sweat

Wise Dan won the G1 Clark in a romp. Further, I would argue the Foster, where he lost, was one of his very best races. He was up close to a ridiculous pace, and held off all but Ron the Greek late. Check out the pace casualty in that race, Fort Larned, who finished dead last. He went on to win the Cornhusker and the Whitney in his next two, and later the Classic. The other pace horse, Nates Mineshaft, ran really well to finish third but then headed to a lengthy layoff. He recently won in this 3rd start off the bench in a stake at Arlington on turf. I can't wait for this one to get back to dirt where he has run huge before.

Wise Dan is a gelding, why not try him on dirt again? He has proven he is just as good on that surface.

[raybo]

Wise Dan won the G1 Clark in a romp. Further, I would argue the Foster, where he lost, was one of his very best races. He was up close to a ridiculous pace, and held off all but Ron the Greek late. Check out the pace casualty in that race, Fort Larned, who finished dead last. He went on to win the Cornhusker and the Whitney in his next two, and later the Classic. The other pace horse, Nates Mineshaft, ran really well to finish third but then headed to a lengthy layoff. He recently won in this 3rd start off the bench in a stake at Arlington on turf. I can't wait for this one to get back to dirt where he has run huge before.

Wise Dan is a gelding, why not try him on dirt again? He has proven he is just as good on that surface.

I agree, he has proven he can win under almost any circumstance he faces. Turf may not be his best surface, but he sure runs it petty well. I'm sure we'll see him on dirt, and synthetic, again. And, the best part is - the horse is still racing and still winning, which is more than can be said for many other high class horses his age nowadays.

For many people, the ability to compete under multiple conditions, circumstances, and pace scenarios, against well bred and raced horses, is the definition of class.

Is he another Secretariat? Heck no! But - he ain't too shabby!

If one looks at the total body of his work he looks pretty good.

[SharpCat]

Wise Dan won the G1 Clark in a romp. Further, I would argue the Foster, where he lost, was one of his very best races. He was up close to a ridiculous pace, and held off all but Ron the Greek late. Check out the pace casualty in that race, Fort Larned, who finished dead last. He went on to win the Cornhusker and the Whitney in his next two, and later the Classic. The other pace horse, Nates Mineshaft, ran really well to finish third but then headed to a lengthy layoff. He recently won in this 3rd start off the bench in a stake at Arlington on turf. I can't wait for this one to get back to dirt where he has run huge before.

Wise Dan is a gelding, why not try him on dirt again? He has proven he is just as good on that surface.


I would love to see Wise Dan run in the Arlington Million, Woodward or even the Pacific Classic. The owner has stated he want's to keep Wise Dan's winning streak alive even if that means running in less prestigious races against weaker competition. No question Wise Dan is a very good horse but he could be a great horse if given the opportunity to prove himself.

[cj]

I would love to see Wise Dan run in the Arlington Million, Woodward or even the Pacific Classic. The owner has stated he want's to keep Wise Dan's winning streak alive even if that means running in less prestigious races against weaker competition. No question Wise Dan is a very good horse but he could be a great horse if given the opportunity to prove himself.

That is a shame. When did "streaks" become important? It is ridiculous. What should matter most is quality wins.

I hated that Zenyatta's camp mostly ducked competition, and I hate that Wise Dan's camp appears to be going down that same path.

[nijinski]

Aw come on . no horses are tomato cans . Wise Dan is just
a fast Tank .

[nijinski]

That is a shame. When did "streaks" become important? It is ridiculous. What should matter most is quality wins.

I hated that Zenyatta's camp mostly ducked competition, and I hate that Wise Dan's camp appears to be going down that same path.

They are not all like Forego , Horses over 17 hands are not the easiest
to keep around in long hard campaigns . I think they took good care of her
and despite the path they took , she was very brave in the classic .

[iceknight]

Wise Dan to the JCGC

[SharpCat]

That is a shame. When did "streaks" become important? It is ridiculous. What should matter most is quality wins.

I hated that Zenyatta's camp mostly ducked competition, and I hate that Wise Dan's camp appears to be going down that same path.


Imagine if he were to win the Arlington Million, Woodward or Pacific Classic he would move to a totally different level.

[cj]

They are not all like Forego , Horses over 17 hands are not the easiest
to keep around in long hard campaigns . I think they took good care of her
and despite the path they took , she was very brave in the classic .

Still, they basically ran her against weak competition for all but one race a year after they knew what they had. She competed almost exclusively in SoCal, yet never once ran in the Big Cap, the Gold Cup, or the Pacific Classic. The streak mattered most for some reason, and it has already been bettered at least twice since.

[nijinski]

Still, they basically ran her against weak competition for all but one race a year after they knew what they had. She competed almost exclusively in SoCal, yet never once ran in the Big Cap, the Gold Cup, or the Pacific Classic. The streak mattered most for some reason, and it has already been bettered at least twice since.

LOL , I do realize that you are making a good point .
She somehow though captured the publics attention . It likely was the streak
coupled with her stature . The connections made that possible too .
I think she attracted a great deal of fans , she's ever so popular . How
great she is compared to other champions is another story . Yes she was
coddled some . IMO though . A big girl like her would have likely lost
before the Classic if she wasn't . But we'll never know .

Wise Dan is another story . My understanding is that he is a very
tensed up horse when he's in training and a handful for exercise riders .
It's been said he went through a few early on .
I understand Lopresti's always said he lets him know when he's ready .
Does that make sense for fans , I guess not , but he sure is consistent
anyway .

[nijinski]

Wise Dan to the JCGC

I thought they were keeping him at a mile .

[tanner12oz]

Well, I for one, have never said WiseDan was, or is, the best thing since sliced bread, but the fact remains that against this field the horse should have won, and did.

He has won, multiple times, on dirt, on synthetic, and on turf, and at multiple distances, and on off tracks as well as on fast tracks, and on the East Coast and the West Coast, in the North and in the South, from the inside post and the outside post, on or near the lead, as well as off the lead, with several different riders.

And in this race, spotted every other horse at least 11 pounds, could easily have been pinned on the rail, but was able to move off the rail in time to display his superiority, while being under a hand ride all the way. And won from off the pace in a less than blistering pace.

Considering all the above, I'd say, WiseDan is a pretty damn good horse.

Should he have won this race? Of course, but then many who should win, don't.

I enjoyed the race immensely, and that isn't the case most of the time.

But, if it makes you feel better by being negative, I hope you feel great now.
there Is something to be said for a horse that wins when he is suppose to...royal delta. Fort larned. Groupie doll and dozens of others have brought there credentials and failed to show in races "they should have won" against cupcake fields...

[tanner12oz]

LOL , I do realize that you are making a good point .
She somehow though captured the publics attention . It likely was the streak
coupled with her stature . The connections made that possible too .
I think she attracted a great deal of fans , she's ever so popular . How
great she is compared to other champions is another story . Yes she was
coddled some . IMO though . A big girl like her would have likely lost
before the Classic if she wasn't . But we'll never know .

Wise Dan is another story . My understanding is that he is a very
tensed up horse when he's in training and a handful for exercise riders .
It's been said he went through a few early on .
I understand Lopresti's always said he lets him know when he's ready .
Does that make sense for fans , I guess not , but he sure is consistent
anyway .
the way she won was more exciting then the way Dan runs...i didn't like the girl at all but her classic win was jaw dropping

[Phantombridgejumpe]

I considered anything she did in her final year a bonus. Didn't care who she raced - it was better than her not racing at all.

[burnsy]

I stand by the paddock fence where the trail leads to the track. The horses walk by a few feet away on their way to the track. Most horses are all business, on their "game face" and some appear nervous and on edge.......not Wise Dan, he strolled by, actually looking and focusing on the crowd...it was as if he was saying...."I'm the king and i'm going to go out and do what i do." The great ones are not only fast they are smart too.....thats how they win so many times. They know the game, they know whats about to go down and they get it done. I really can't argue whose better than who.........a great race horse is a thing to behold. Wise Dan is one hell of a race horse. :ThmbUp: If you saw him walking to the post parade, compared to the others, you could tell who the leader in that group was, win or lose.

[Phantombridgejumpe]

Lost Code at Monmouth the race after he lost to Bet Twice and Alysheba.

He was an impressive horse that day, 100% fit and focused. Probably the nicest
looking horse I've seen live pre-race ever.

He lost convincingly as a big favorite with no excuse.

Just saying...

[burnsy]

Thats why i said..."Win or lose." These horses carry a confidence level with them....its mental, it does not mean they will definetly win. The body does not always hold up on the physical end, its still a game (sport) and it happens. I suppose you've never had a bad day? If you think these "stars" of the game don't know they are good...i'd say you have not been around horses long enough. The great ones know they are good, not many win every race they are in.

[Grits]

Its quite easy to pick out the Wise Dans. The older horses with more experience.. Too, it was obvious that the HOY towered over the field.

When you're watching them along the walking path for the Travers, the Alabama, the Saratoga Special, the Adirondack, the Hopeful, and the Woodward (as I've done, like yourself), each in a deep field, its not quite so easy.

The part intelligence plays in great race horses has long been understood.