View Full Version : Giving up citizenship: Americans bailing
JustRalph
08-10-2013, 12:16 AM
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-08-09/americans-giving-up-passports-jump-sixfold-as-tougher-rules-loom
In record numbers
LottaKash
08-10-2013, 01:37 AM
Judging from what I took from that article, it seems that these days, it is much easier to get into the USA than to get "out" of here.....:eek:
Actor
08-10-2013, 03:15 AM
These people don't love their country. To hell with 'em!
TJDave
08-10-2013, 03:27 AM
If I were in charge those who give up citizenship would also surrender every dollar made here. They can go start over in Russia or China or Bangladesh. F**k 'em.
JustRalph
08-10-2013, 03:46 AM
These people don't love their country. To hell with 'em!
Really? Did you read this part......
"The U.S., the only nation in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development that taxes citizens wherever they reside, is searching for tax cheats in offshore centers, including Switzerland, as the government tries to curb the budget deficit. Shunned by Swiss and German banks and facing tougher asset-disclosure rules under the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, more of the estimated 6 million Americans living overseas are weighing the cost of holding a U.S. passport."
Do you think being treated more harshly than citizens of any other country of the world fosters loyalty and love for a government that is now perceived to be more intrusive, tyrannical and dangerous than at any time in the history of the country?
These people are following in the footsteps of the founders. Why do you think we had a revolution? To escape excessive taxes, tyrannical dictates from a corrupt government. Sound familiar ?
tucker6
08-10-2013, 07:38 AM
My wife and I have discussed the issue (more fancifully than real at this point). However, if the US continues down this path of ruination, then it may become more of a reality. America cares less and less about me as the years go by, so why should I return my loyalty so fervently? Someone answer me that?
Robert Goren
08-10-2013, 09:17 AM
My wife and I have discussed the issue (more fancifully than real at this point). However, if the US continues down this path of ruination, then it may become more of a reality. America cares less and less about me as the years go by, so why should I return my loyalty so fervently? Someone answer me that?Because it is still the best place to live by a country mile. If you don't think so, move and give up your US citizenship and don't hit the door hit you in the butt on your way out. People risk life and limb everyday to sneak in here just to be a maid or day laborer and you want to move. You are an Idiot with a capital I. So you don't like the current government, vote. If enough people agree with you, then things will change. That is the American way. It is ruled by the people. Sure some rich people try to buy votes, but they try on both sides. so they off set each other. Most places would throw you in jail for what you wrote including a lot places you would probably love at first.
After the 8 years of foolishness with wars we couldn't win and some of the worst Economic policy since the 1920s, this country has right its ship and headed to greatest economic bomb since end of WWII. Long over do changes in tax law are forcing companies to return home and operate here. We practically forced companies to go overseas before with our tax laws before. Every financial market is booming because not only are Americans investing here again, but foreign money is flowing in because American is the place to have your money once again. Sure we have some problems yet, but we are working hard to fix them. Plus we have a lot fewer of them than anyplace else in the world. Don't let a few naysayers get to you. We have always had them and they have always been wrong in the long run. This country has great history of overcoming its mistakes and bouncing back stronger than ever. I see no reason it won't continue to do it in the future despite naysayers say as they attempt to make money off knocking this country. Just remember it is the only way those losers can make a living. Also remember their "answers " are what caused most of our problems in the first place. Only a fool or a fast buck artist would want to return to policies that have gotten us trouble every time the people have been foolish enough to listen to them. Another great thing about America, we are quick realize our mistakes and boot the rascals out on their ear.
tucker6
08-10-2013, 09:44 AM
Because it is still the best place to live by a country mile. If you don't think so, move and give up your US citizenship and don't hit the door hit you in the butt on your way out. People risk life and limb everyday to sneak in here just to be a maid or day laborer and you want to move. You are an Idiot with a capital I. So you don't like the current government, vote. If enough people agree with you, then things will change. That is the American way. It is ruled by the people. Sure some rich people try to buy votes, but they try on both sides. so they off set each other. Most places would throw you in jail for what you wrote including a lot places you would probably love at first.
After the 8 years of foolishness with wars we couldn't win and some of the worst Economic policy since the 1920s, this country has right its ship and headed to greatest economic bomb since end of WWII. Long over do changes in tax law are forcing companies to return home and operate here. We practically forced companies to go overseas before with our tax laws before. Every financial market is booming because not only are Americans investing here again, but foreign money is flowing in because American is the place to have your money once again. Sure we have some problems yet, but we are working hard to fix them. Plus we have a lot fewer of them than anyplace else in the world. Don't let a few naysayers get to you. We have always had them and they have always been wrong in the long run. This country has great history of overcoming its mistakes and bouncing back stronger than ever. I see no reason it won't continue to do it in the future despite naysayers say as they attempt to make money off knocking this country. Just remember it is the only way those losers can make a living. Also remember their "answers " are what caused most of our problems in the first place. Only a fool or a fast buck artist would want to return to policies that have gotten us trouble every time the people have been foolish enough to listen to them. Another great thing about America, we are quick realize our mistakes and boot the rascals out on their ear.
You are so far from reality in this post that it's breathtaking. I probably know a little more than the average person about the world, so fear not on my account. And if I do decide to leave, you can bet the door won't be hitting me in the ass on my way out.
iceknight
08-10-2013, 09:52 AM
Because it is still the best place to live by a country mile. If you don't think so, move and give up your US citizenship and don't hit the door hit you in the butt on your way out. (Extremely poor people who have no other options in their home countries) People risk life and limb everyday to sneak in here just to be a maid or day laborer and you want to move. You are an Idiot with a capital I. So you don't like the current government, vote. If enough people agree with you, then things will change. That is the American way. It is ruled by the people. Sure some rich people try to buy votes, but they try on both sides. so they off set each other. Most places would throw you in jail for what you wrote including a lot places you would probably love at first.
After the 8 years of foolishness with wars we couldn't win and some of the worst Economic policy since the 1920s, this country has right its ship and headed to greatest economic bomb since end of WWII. Long over do changes in tax law are forcing companies to return home and operate here.
--> Please quote some hard evidence, it is not my job to be believing every word of your "opinion", or wasting my precious time checking your opinions.
We practically forced companies to go overseas before with our tax laws before.
Every financial market is booming because not only are Americans investing here again, but foreign money is flowing in because American is the place to have your money once again. Sure we have some problems yet, but we are working hard to fix them. Plus we have a lot fewer of them than anyplace else in the world. Don't let a few naysayers get to you. We have always had them and they have always been wrong in the long run. This country has great history of overcoming its mistakes and bouncing back stronger than ever. I see no reason it won't continue to do
Are you working hard and being forced to pay more than your (even self perceived fair) share of taxes while several others are able avoid them.
Also, if you work hard in another country, earn money there and get taxes taken out there by the local government, if the US still wants to tax it, how would you feel?
You can't refute real data. if people are actually leaving the US due to these type of policies, not sure how you can keep your head in the sand and still claim "this is the greatest country" blah blah..... a description, which is of course quite subjective. It may be the best place by a 'country mile'.. but that kind of languages also shows the breadth of your thinking.
ElKabong
08-10-2013, 10:36 AM
People risk life and limb everyday to sneak in here just to be a maid or day laborer and you want to move.
And more educated & self sufficient types are leaving the US. See the trend, Inspector??
Your sentence above best describes the Obama economy about as well as anything I've seen.
Robert Goren
08-10-2013, 10:38 AM
Are you working hard and being forced to pay more than your (even self perceived fair) share of taxes while several others are able avoid them.
Also, if you work hard in another country, earn money there and get taxes taken out there by the local government, if the US still wants to tax it, how would you feel?
You can't refute real data. if people are actually leaving the US due to these type of policies, not sure how you can keep your head in the sand and still claim "this is the greatest country" blah blah..... a description, which is of course quite subjective. It may be the best place by a 'country mile'.. but that kind of languages also shows the breadth of your thinking. It says a whole lot more about them than the policies. I never get sick to stomach as when I hear somebody throw away what my dad and many others like him fought for over few lousy bucks in taxes. The extra taxes is small compared to what many have given for their country. I can't help but believe this country is better off without the people who give away their birthright for money. Probably a lot better off without them. Maybe they should read "Man without a Country" a short story by Edward Everett Hale before they jump. It might give them pause.
Saratoga_Mike
08-10-2013, 10:46 AM
It says a whole lot more about them than the policies. I never get sick to stomach as when I hear somebody throw away what my dad and many others like him fought for over few lousy bucks in taxes. The extra taxes is small compared to what many have given for their country. I can't help but believe this country is better off without the people who give away their birthright for money. Probably a lot better off without them. Maybe they should read "Man without a Country" a short story by Edward Everett Hale before they jump. It might give them pause.
We disagree on the tax issue, but I agree with the rest of your sentiment here.
Robert Goren
08-10-2013, 10:49 AM
iceknight, this country was found and built by extremely poor people who had no other options in their home countries. It is why we are so great today. The rich people who had options stayed in their home countries.
Robert Goren
08-10-2013, 10:59 AM
We disagree on the tax issue, but I agree with the rest of your sentiment here.I agree with the tax policy , but I understand others may differ. That why we have elections every two years. If you and other who believe like you can get enough votes, you can change it. For the talk about bad politicians and how corrupt they are, in the end elections change things.
tucker6
08-10-2013, 11:02 AM
iceknight, this country was found and built by extremely poor people who had no other options in their home countries. It is why we are so great today. The rich people who had options stayed in their home countries.
Most of our Founders were filthy rich by the standards of the day, and some by today's standards. They were the 1% of the 1700's. Why are we crucifying today's 1% then?
tucker6
08-10-2013, 11:05 AM
I agree with the tax policy , but I understand others may differ. That why we have elections every two years. If you and other who believe like you can get enough votes, you can change it. For the talk about bad politicians and how corrupt they are, in the end elections change things.
That used to be more true when politicians thought it their civic duty to serve for a period of time and then return home. Nowadays, politicians of both parties are after long term careers in politics and protect that investment first and foremost rather than the public trust. Can you refute that statement? If not, then why vilify those who wish to exit a country that's doing exactly that?
fast4522
08-10-2013, 11:17 AM
The pendulum swings both ways, this trend is much like a disease that needs to die off, Europe will implode first then our lawmakers will ditch this trend and push those who have not died off over the cliff. In short there is no way on earth to sustain this level of spending.
Robert Goren
08-10-2013, 11:24 AM
That used to be more true when politicians thought it their civic duty to serve for a period of time and then return home. Nowadays, politicians of both parties are after long term careers in politics and protect that investment first and foremost rather than the public trust. Can you refute that statement? If not, then why vilify those who wish to exit a country that's doing exactly that? When was that? That was one of the Ideals when this country was founded, but as far as I can see from what history I have read about the start of the country, that hasn't ever been the case on a national level anyway. Politicians may serve longer today than in the past, but that is only because they live longer. It has always been rare for politician to voluntarily give up politics. Former president are the only politicians that give up politics after they leave office and there are even exceptions to that.
Robert Goren
08-10-2013, 11:30 AM
The pendulum swings both ways, this trend is much like a disease that needs to die off, Europe will implode first then our lawmakers will ditch this trend and push those who have not died off over the cliff. In short there is no way on earth to sustain this level of spending. I thought people like you were saying a couple of years ago Europe would have already fallen off the cliff by now. Greece is still there, so is Spain and the rest of it.
LottaKash
08-10-2013, 11:33 AM
In short there is no way on earth to sustain this level of spending.
Sad, but true....
I have yet to see a balloon that wouldn't go bust when it has become over inflated beyond it's pressure rating.....From a national debt of 9 trillion to 17 trillion in 5 short years, should give anyone with any common sense, an inkling of foresight as to what comes next.....
What is the "pressure rating" of an economic and an ensuing social bust...?
fast4522
08-10-2013, 11:49 AM
I thought people like you were saying a couple of years ago Europe would have already fallen off the cliff by now. Greece is still there, so is Spain and the rest of it.
Robert,
"sometimes dead is better"
Did you ever see the movie "Pet Cemetery"?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqu0ogtqlQs
If I were in charge those who give up citizenship would also surrender every dollar made here. They can go start over in Russia or China or Bangladesh. F**k 'em.
Pretty sad when you have force people to stay.
Maybe the polish is off this old car?
We are PEOPLE first, Americans second.
There are lots of countries....maybe it is time for us to make another great.
There is no greatness in America - only in its people.......when they give it up, there is nothing more to say.
Our glory days are long gone - they will never come back. Time to stop worrying about Uncle Sam and worry about ourselves.
Mike at A+
08-10-2013, 03:02 PM
For the talk about bad politicians and how corrupt they are, in the end elections change things.
Unless of course the voters are just as corrupt (or stupid - or lazy - or swayed by race or ethnicity - or easily bought).
Originally Posted by Robert Goren
For the talk about bad politicians and how corrupt they are, in the end elections change things.
Yes, they make them worse for us and better for them.
We have gone so far down the road to ruin, to we can't even the lights of the city behind us anymore.
We would be better off with no government.
NJ Stinks
08-10-2013, 04:56 PM
Our glory days are long gone - they will never come back. Time to stop worrying about Uncle Sam and worry about ourselves.
Dr. Doom is a little more deflated than usual. Bad day at Saratoga? Finger Lakes?
Robert Goren
08-10-2013, 05:30 PM
Dr. Doom is a little more deflated than usual. Bad day at Saratoga? Finger Lakes? Must have to had to mow the yard after all!
Originally Posted by NJ Stinks
Dr. Doom is a little more deflated than usual. Bad day at Saratoga? Finger Lakes?
No, just NOT watching the news anymore - so I am getting reality info. :rolleyes:
We are a nation of lazy fools basking in our ignorance.
You guys have dumbed us down so much there is no hope anymore.
Unless states starts leaving the dead union and leaving the libs behind.
The cancer that is liberalism has spread too far to be cured.
Must have to had to mow the yard after all!
Fell asleep - so this was my best day at Toga yet!
JustRalph
08-10-2013, 07:13 PM
As someone already mentioned. The numbers tell the tale. You cannot refute the facts.
We have crossed a juncture wherein it is no longer just a "few bucks" and people can see the writing on the wall. The people who have enough money can escape to a better locale. 30 yrs ago there was no place better. Not anymore.
Goren can pontificate about voting and changing things all he wants. These people are tired of paying for Obamaphones and illegals drawing down the economy etc. They understand that the takers outnumber the makers now.
There's a book that describes this whole scenario...........I wonder what it's called?
JustRalph
08-10-2013, 07:15 PM
Fell asleep - so this was my best day at Toga yet!
Swear to god I did the same.....was up late packing for a road trip to Houston tomorrow and got up this morning to look at the cards, went back to sleep and forgot all about racing.
Coming off the best week I've had in five years at least. So, up is up......I can sit for a while......might look at some tracks tonight
I was happier sleeping.
gRbim4Qmmw4
tucker6
08-10-2013, 08:08 PM
It's obvious that Ringo was the brains of that outfit. Just look how good he played the drums... :rolleyes:
JustRalph
08-11-2013, 12:39 AM
It's obvious that Ringo was the brains of that outfit. Just look how good he played the drums... :rolleyes:
The amazing thing is that he may outlive the whole group? He played it smart by separating his publishing rights from the Lennon-McCartney "northern songs" catalog that ended up in Michael Jackson's hands.
Of course he made much less money (he owned about 2% of northern songs) but controlled his own music through his own publishing company. GHarrison got 2% of NMusic too.
Ringo still gets a small percentage from the Beatles catalog.......... and his own songs have done him very well. Btw, Lennon and McCartney received no less money on their music just because they didn't own the publishing rights. McCartney wanted to buy the rights back because he would have increased his take of the rights by 100%. He would have received the other 50% that go along with the publishing rights.
By not being able to raise the capital to buy the publishing rights they didn't lose anything. They still got the same cut as when Northern Music owned the rights. Lennon and Mccartney owned 15% a piece of NMusic and when it was sold they cashed out their shares of the publicly traded company. So they got paid upfront actually. But those songs endure.......eventually they lose.
Ringo held on to his stakes in NMusic as did G.Harrison. They are still getting paid royalties from that stake. Harrison's estate receives the royalties.
The next time you hear a Beatles song in a commercial, remember that Ringo is getting paid too. He's not as dumb as some might think.
He wrote a few good ones.....some with George
Photograph (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photograph_(Ringo_Starr_song))
You may have heard of this one too....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus%27s_Garden
more...........
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ringo_Starr_songs
PaceAdvantage
08-11-2013, 01:05 AM
I thought people only renounced their citizenship when Republicans were in office. Remember all those Hollywood types who said they were going to leave the country if George Bush won reelection in 2004?
BTW, aren't they all still here?
duncan04
08-11-2013, 01:09 AM
I thought people only renounced their citizenship when Republicans were in office. Remember all those Hollywood types who said they were going to leave the country if George Bush won reelection in 2004?
BTW, aren't they all still here?
Unfortunately yes
JustRalph
08-11-2013, 01:27 AM
Alec Baldwin threatened to leave, I see he's still here and getting his own show on MSNBC
I just noticed that Ringo post, my wife says sometimes I act like rainman.......it slipped through on that one...........
Wapner in ten minutes............
tucker6
08-11-2013, 06:21 AM
Alec Baldwin threatened to leave, I see he's still here and getting his own show on MSNBC
I just noticed that Ringo post, my wife says sometimes I act like rainman.......it slipped through on that one...........
Wapner in ten minutes............
I was thinking the same thing, LOL. That was a great deal of info for a Ringo joke. That's okay. I enjoyed the education.
JustRalph
08-11-2013, 11:12 PM
I was thinking the same thing, LOL. That was a great deal of info for a Ringo joke. That's okay. I enjoyed the education.
I took a songwriting course. They used the Beatles as an example to explain how royalties work. I guess it stuck........
Steve 'StatMan'
08-12-2013, 12:06 PM
Isn't a big reason Detroit is bankrupt is because people left when they were getting taxed too high as well as the deteriorating city life. Detroit wasn't guaranetted the people would just sit around and be overtaxed. Aren't millionaires leaving NY & NJ in record numbers because of the punative tax increases?
Can't just dump shit on people with options and expect them to gladly eat it and stick around for more. At least not and be a realist.
thaskalos
08-12-2013, 12:17 PM
Isn't a big reason Detroit is bankrupt is because people left when they were getting taxed too high as well as the deteriorating city life. Detroit wasn't guaranetted the people would just sit around and be overtaxed. Aren't millionaires leaving NY & NJ in record numbers because of the punative tax increases?
Can't just dump shit on people with options and expect them to gladly eat it and stick around for more. At least not and be a realist.
Exactly right! Everyone has the right to choose where they want to live; that's the foremost expression of "freedom".
And as far as being "loyal' to your country? Well...loyalty works both ways.
tucker6
08-12-2013, 03:32 PM
Exactly right! Everyone has the right to choose where they want to live; that's the foremost expression of "freedom".
And as far as being "loyal' to your country? Well...loyalty works both ways.
Hey, I see your playing on AMC tonight at 8pm Eastern. The Don that is ...
thaskalos
08-12-2013, 03:38 PM
Hey, I see your playing on AMC tonight at 8pm Eastern. The Don that is ...
They made me an offer I couldn't refuse...
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