RTN down?

[Prairie Bettor]

I'm at Prairie Meadows and the RTN signal is down.

The dish network "complete signal loss" screen is on the monitors.

The workers are saying it's not a local problem, that the entire network is down at every track in the US.

I say it's a local dish alignment problem.

Anyone able to confirm that dish network RTN is working?

[JustRalph]

not working at EVD or CTX according to announcers

[fiveouttasix]

No payoffs or results posted on 4NJBets for Del Mar race 1

[Prairie Bettor]

Seems to be working now.

Was out for two hours or so.

[garyscpa]

Was out at Gulf Greyhound in Houston as well. A friend who has it at home said his went out as well.

[BreadandButter]

Mine was out at home as well.

[thespaah]

I'm at Prairie Meadows and the RTN signal is down.

The dish network "complete signal loss" screen is on the monitors.

The workers are saying it's not a local problem, that the entire network is down at every track in the US.

I say it's a local dish alignment problem.

Anyone able to confirm that dish network RTN is working?
This happened on Fri 8/2..I was in NY on vacation. The OTB cable channel which picks up the Roberts feed, lost the feed just before the 8th or 9th race.
Same message.."complete signal loss"...
The problem is most likely at the Roberts Uplink facility. All signals are sent there either via satellite link from the track or via fiber network.
To make this a bit easier to understand, I will offer an example.
For most local network stations on the East Coast, Dish subscribers receive their local channels via a Dish uplink center in Mt Jackson, VA. Each station's signal is received via over the air antennas mounted at a telephone company "point of presence" (POP) in the city from which the station broadcasts...Inside the building the signals are routed through a switch which then sends the signals via fiber optic cables up to Mount Jackson. That facility then bounces the signals off Dish's satellites back to their customers. If there are heavy thunderstorms in the area of MT Jackson, all signals of those local channels can be 'lost' due to interference.
I am going to take a flyer and make a case for the same at Roberts Comm uplink. Heavy weather.

[therussmeister]

http://www.drf.com/news/simulcast-signals-have-nationwide-90-minute-blackout-friday

[thespaah]

http://www.drf.com/news/simulcast-signals-have-nationwide-90-minute-blackout-friday
And there ya have it. The other RTN up link center is I believe in New Hampshire. Not sure, but that is the best info I could find on the Company website.
No the signals cannot be rerouted. In case you or anyone else was going to ask.

[affirmedny]

And there ya have it. The other RTN up link center is I believe in New Hampshire. Not sure, but that is the best info I could find on the Company website.
No the signals cannot be rerouted. In case you or anyone else was going to ask.

It's in Wyoming, it's in the article.

[edmond1]

Noticed that this has been happening frequently in the last while. Don't recall this happening when the faster C-Band system was used - only minor seasonal solar issues. While DN/RTN was out TVG had no problems broadcasting their C-Band signal. Seems that they know better not to rely on DN/RTN for their source feeds - they access them directly from racetrack.....

Good work Roberts Communications. I was at Woodbine at the time and amused to witness most people running for the exits after a few minutes of this unnecessary bullsh!t. This episode has just added to the 10's of millions in handle already lost since the conversion.......

[thespaah]

It's in Wyoming, it's in the article.
One in Colorado and one in Wyoming?

[thespaah]

It's in Wyoming, it's in the article.
The OTHER uplink center.

[thespaah]

Noticed that this has been happening frequently in the last while. Don't recall this happening when the faster C-Band system was used - only minor seasonal solar issues. While DN/RTN was out TVG had no problems broadcasting their C-Band signal. Seems that they know better not to rely on DN/RTN for their source feeds - they access them directly from racetrack.....

Good work Roberts Communications. I was at Woodbine at the time and amused to witness most people running for the exits after a few minutes of this unnecessary bullsh!t. This episode has just added to the 10's of millions in handle already lost since the conversion.......
C-band is not 'faster'. With C-band there was one less step in the transmission cycle.
All satellite signals travel at the speed of light.
All satellite signals are subject to a condition known in the business as "rain fade"..Simply put, precipitation that refracts or blocks reception of the signal.
With the sheer size of C-band antennas, greater 'gain' was realized and thus rain fade was less frequent.
Now, if you've ever seen a satellite tv uplink center, you would note the size of the antennas.
Here's an example of the setup of satellite tv transmissions and how they get from the source to the viewer.
http://www.cannonsatellitetv.com/blog/index.php/tag/information/page/2/

[edmond1]

C-band is not 'faster'. With C-band there was one less step in the transmission cycle.
All satellite signals travel at the speed of light.
All satellite signals are subject to a condition known in the business as "rain fade"..Simply put, precipitation that refracts or blocks reception of the signal.
With the sheer size of C-band antennas, greater 'gain' was realized and thus rain fade was less frequent.
Now, if you've ever seen a satellite tv uplink center, you would note the size of the antennas.
Here's an example of the setup of satellite tv transmissions and how they get from the source to the viewer.
http://www.cannonsatellitetv.com/blog/index.php/tag/information/page/2/

Thanks for the info. This extra step has added an extra 2-3 second delay in final product and as was witnessed on Friday more chances for something to go wrong. Now that they have the hardware major betting locations should consider receiving fiber feeds directly from racetracks reducing the real-time delay to 1 second instead of 5. TVG is on the ball when it comes to this .... Woodbine receives a direct feed from Mohawk....

[thespaah]

Thanks for the info. This extra step has added an extra 2-3 second delay in final product and as was witnessed on Friday more chances for something to go wrong. Now that they have the hardware major betting locations should consider receiving fiber feeds directly from racetracks reducing the real-time delay to 1 second instead of 5. TVG is on the ball when it comes to this .... Woodbine receives a direct feed from Mohawk....
Fiber feeds are expensive. Fiber optic transmissions are also subject to outages.
Those outages happen all the time. I have a neighbor who works on fiber optic transmission systems. He is constantly running out on calls for various types of outages, reroutes and actual cable damages..

[edmond1]

Fiber feeds are expensive. Fiber optic transmissions are also subject to outages.
Those outages happen all the time. I have a neighbor who works on fiber optic transmission systems. He is constantly running out on calls for various types of outages, reroutes and actual cable damages..

First of all TVG uses fiber for their source feeds - they can afford it. Also if fiber feeds are so expensive and prone to problems as you claim and as experienced recently WHY CHANGE FROM C-BAND WHICH WAS MORE RELIABLE AND RESULTED IN LESS REAL-TIME DELAY. I have already argued this point several times on here.

[thespaah]

First of all TVG uses fiber for their source feeds - they can afford it. Also if fiber feeds are so expensive and prone to problems as you claim and as experienced recently WHY CHANGE FROM C-BAND WHICH WAS MORE RELIABLE AND RESULTED IN LESS REAL-TIME DELAY. I have already argued this point several times on here.
C-band is older technology. I would imagine your have observed the gradual disappearance of C-band satellite antennas.
The reasons are many. One, C-band satellites were low powered birds which had to be that way because the C-band frequency spectrum is very close to microwave voice communications. This was to avoid the effect of 'crosstalk'. Or interference into another frequency range. Low power sats require very large movable ( across the sky) antennas with a lost of expensive moving parts.
Enter digital or Direct Satellite Service and FSS Fixed Satellite Service.
These types require much smaller antennas because the power output is much higher.
Eventually all of the existing C-band birds out on the Clark Belt will expire. They are all being replaced with sats using the Ku Band.

[edmond1]

Your knowledge of this subject is much appreciated. But the 5 second delay is just not acceptable for many of us. Maybe OK for residential purposes but definitely not for large scale operations. Until delay is decreased to approx.2 seconds or less we will just bet primarily on live racing (either thoroughbred or harness).

[thespaah]

Your knowledge of this subject is much appreciated. But the 5 second delay is just not acceptable for many of us. Maybe OK for residential purposes but definitely not for large scale operations. Until delay is decreased to approx.2 seconds or less we will just bet primarily on live racing (either thoroughbred or harness).
Not to be curt with you in any way, but this is the technology we have, so get used to it.
Until our nation is completely involved with fiber optic connectivity, satellite communication is the accepted platform.
Now, I am not sure as to why there exists a problem with a satellite delay.
Unless one is 'betting the bell' it should make no difference.

[edmond1]

Not to be curt with you in any way, but this is the technology we have, so get used to it.
Until our nation is completely involved with fiber optic connectivity, satellite communication is the accepted platform.
Now, I am not sure as to why there exists a problem with a satellite delay.
Unless one is 'betting the bell' it should make no difference.

Unfortunately all this confirms exactly what was told to me by a RTN technical person that I communicated with a couple of years ago with regards to this topic:

"Horse racing days are numbered and that most of the people still betting on horses are just a bunch of degenerates that could not care less about the increased delay".

He has since passed away. Personally I blame track management for many of the problems including this one. In the mean time betting entities (ie TVG) that understand that time means money will pay for fiber feeds to benefit their customers. And whenever we bet on a simulcast track we will only bet on an offshore site that gives us a rebate.

WE WILL NOT CONTRIBUTE ONE DIME TO SIMULCAST POOLS TILL PROBLEM IS FIXED !!

[thespaah]

Unfortunately all this confirms exactly what was told to me by a RTN technical person that I communicated with a couple of years ago with regards to this topic:

"Horse racing days are numbered and that most of the people still betting on horses are just a bunch of degenerates that could not care less about the increased delay".

He has since passed away. Personally I blame track management for many of the problems including this one. In the mean time betting entities (ie TVG) that understand that time means money will pay for fiber feeds to benefit their customers. And whenever we bet on a simulcast track we will only bet on an offshore site that gives us a rebate.

WE WILL NOT CONTRIBUTE ONE DIME TO SIMULCAST POOLS TILL PROBLEM IS FIXED !!
I do not know who "We" is....And I certainly do not know what the problem is.
So, I will ask. What IS the problem? And don't just reply with 'the delay"..That means nothing to me.
Explain in depth why the delay is so detrimental to your wagering activities that you will use an offshore book.

[angeleyes55]

Unfortunately all this confirms exactly what was told to me by a RTN technical person that I communicated with a couple of years ago with regards to this topic:

"Horse racing days are numbered and that most of the people still betting on horses are just a bunch of degenerates that could not care less about the increased delay".

He has since passed away. Personally I blame track management for many of the problems including this one. In the mean time betting entities (ie TVG) that understand that time means money will pay for fiber feeds to benefit their customers. And whenever we bet on a simulcast track we will only bet on an offshore site that gives us a rebate.

WE WILL NOT CONTRIBUTE ONE DIME TO SIMULCAST POOLS TILL PROBLEM IS FIXED !!

Right on. Good to see someone else understands this issue besides myself and others I know. Slow feeds can be a detriment for harness players and for
thoroughbred players that rely on gate behavior. Also disadvantaged are players that use late money as an aid. Not to mention handle lost since changeover - witnessed many frustrated last second bettors getting shut out. May not be that great a deal for pick 3->6 players.

[edmond1]

DN is not available to Canadian residents (legally) and therefore RTN is not available. In order to view races on TV at home you need to subscribe to HPI Interactive through Roger's Cable. This is a rotating channel that is produced at Woodbine and then transmitted to Bell Expressvu and Rogers Cable. The delay on cable is 5 seconds more than what the delay would be if you were watching the corresponding RTN feed shown at Woodbine. That means the real time delay on cable is now a full 10 seconds. The delay on their internet feed is approximately 8 seconds - 2 seconds better. With the recent RTN disruptions they decided to use the internet feeds as their source. Not only was the TV picture very poor the delay was now increased to 13 seconds. A JOKE !!!!!!
HPI belongs to Woodbine and is a monopoly in Canada. No other competition exists with the exception of offshore sites. Thousands of people rely on them for their betting and video needs. Their website is very good and they continue to improve it. They are loaded with cash(remember they have a casino). They have the technology and know how to retrieve direct fiber feeds (Mohawk->Woodbine). Why not get them for all the tracks or at least the major ones ? Are they too cheap or too lazy or is the RTN techy(see above) right ?