Nice move, Mountaneer

[Tom]

Anyone there awake today?
You go head to head with the Whitney?????

Stupid move - you get a tape delay at TVG - NO ONE is going o show your race live when a real race is going off at Toga.

You can't wait 5 minutes for a national audience????

You really showed a lack of respect for your product today.

:bang:

[Stillriledup]

Stuff like this shows who is out of touch and who is not.

[HuggingTheRail]

Maybe Mountaineer thought that Saratoga should wait for them? ;)

[alhattab]

Maybe Mountaineer thought that Saratoga should wait for them? ;)

Handle on the race last year was about $900k. This year was about $730. But last year handle may have been juiced by minus pool on Hansen.

[Tom]

Also shows no respect for the people watching and wagering on their races.

[iceknight]

Also shows no respect for the people watching and wagering on their races. Absolutely I totally agree with you. They lost my ~ $10 worth of wagering on that race mainly because it directly conflicted with Whitney. And I am a very conservative bettor..

MNR is surely morons to go head to head with a top BC qualifying race.

[alhattab]

Also shows no respect for the people watching and wagering on their races.

Tom- your logic is flawed. Implied in your argument is that you think they actually give a shit!

[Tom]

Oh, I forgot. Sorry...my bad. :bang:

[nijinski]

Don't worry , I was at the Hambo today , Meadowlands . They presented the Star Spangled Banner , After the first race had already run .

[JustRalph]

Don't worry , I was at the Hambo today , Meadowlands . They presented the Star Spangled Banner , After the first race had already run .

Now that's funny! :lol:

I wonder who forgot .........

[nijinski]

Now that's funny! :lol:

I wonder who forgot .........

I guess it didn't matter on the last day of the season :D , someone had a
few too many . It was funny to hear people complain about the race and then
stop to pay respect to our flag .

[Stillriledup]

What was with the DQ in the 6th race at Mtn? Maybe they DQ 'out of towners' on principle?

[onefast99]

Don't worry , I was at the Hambo today , Meadowlands . They presented the Star Spangled Banner , After the first race had already run .
For a few of us old-timers who frequented that grandstand for both the harness and the thoroughbred meets over the past 36 years another chapter in the history of racing in NJ has come to an end. Whats the future hold? Slots eventually for the two tracks as Atlantic City is on life support. And 5 years too late a full casino somewhere in the Meadowlands!

[lamboguy]

i saw they are building a sports betting parlor in Monmouth that William Hill is going to run. if they operate like the casino's in Nevada they will do well as long as they can keep the doors open. that place will do over $100 million a week in sports bets and maybe a lot more if they get phone bets.

[racingfan378]

Also shows no respect for the people watching and wagering on their races.

Anyone who likes Rosemary Williams up there needs to re-think why they like her. It's her job as Director of Racing to ensure that things like this doesn't happen! Mountaineer just isn't the same product anymore and I know I don't touch them with a ten foot pole like I use to

[Al Gobbi]

Why not run the card at night? Outside of Del Mar and Mohawk, there is very little competition.

[PaceAdvantage]

OK, I get it that it isn't the brightest move for MNR to go head to head with the Whitney, however, I don't get how that would prevent someone from betting both races if they thought they had good bets in each.

To me, this just doesn't seem like that huge a problem. An inconvenience when it comes to watching both races? Yes. Of course.

But we're here to wager and make money, and something like this just doesn't seem like that great an obstacle to overcome.

[Al Gobbi]

Root Sports Colorado carried the WV Derby and a race before it live, it was a Fox Sports production with Chris Lincoln and Kurt Hoover. I have PIP on the TV so was able to watch both live.

[Stillriledup]

OK, I get it that it isn't the brightest move for MNR to go head to head with the Whitney, however, I don't get how that would prevent someone from betting both races if they thought they had good bets in each.

To me, this just doesn't seem like that huge a problem. An inconvenience when it comes to watching both races? Yes. Of course.

But we're here to wager and make money, and something like this just doesn't seem like that great an obstacle to overcome.

Because people need to concentrate on warmups and odds changes, you cant do that at 2 tracks if they're going off at the same time. If you loved a horse at one of the tracks, you could theoretically wager in advance and put your entire focus on the other place, but it really becomes hard to pay full attention. What if you want to listen to Andy Serling/maggies comments on a Spa race and also wanted to listen to Mark/Nancy at mtn? Can you listen to all the in house commentators if both tracks have 15 MTP and both commentators are talking at the same exact time?

This only doesnt hurt bettors who don't watch warmups, don't care about following the odds board, etc.

[Phantombridgejumpe]

If you are counting on the churn from one to bet the other.

[Tom]

So if the waiter brings your salad after your desert, it's ok, because your are there to eat, and your got it all in?

[Stillriledup]

If you are counting on the churn from one to bet the other.

Interesting. Good point.

[Jeff P]

Two years ago, The Jockey Club commissioned McKinsey & Company to do an economic study for the industry (and then made a presentation at the Round Table Conference.)

Among the many findings from that study was that insistence on keeping to the industry status quo could be counted on to produce a net loss of 4% of total customer spend on North American Thoroughbred Racing each year.

In other words, start with year 1 as your base... multiply by .96 to get your year 2 base... multiply that by .96 to get your year 3 base... multiply that by .96 to get your year 4 base, etc.

Extend that out over 10 years and (suddenly) total customer spend on the product is just two thirds of what it used to be. FYI, that's pretty much exactly where the industry finds itself today. Put a "number" on it and the cumulative effect of minus 4% per year over the past 10 years is a revenue shortfall of about $5B... (that's Billion with a B.)

Among the MANY things McKinsey & Company recommended the industry do to stem the tide was something extraordinarily simple and something that had quite literally almost zero cost to implement:

Schedule your major races in such a way that they not run on top of each other.

As fate would have it, I had a conversation about this very topic (races running on top of each other) with Jim Galgliano of the Jockey Club earlier this week. During that conversation I learned that The Jockey Club had gone so far as to build a race scheduling app which they then integrated into the Encompass System. Jim told me the app had been made available at no additional cost to track management in the hopes they would only use it.

Trouble is - in a lot of cases (but not all) - track management willfully wants no part of this.

The industry spent a sizable chunk of change to have a reputable consulting firm prepare a major economic study with recommendations as to how to reverse the downward trend (minus 4% per year.)

I suppose what we saw yesterday is to be expected.

After all we are betting on horses.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.



-jp

.

[JustRalph]

Thanks jeff.

Willful stupidity

The best kind........

[Al Gobbi]

There was a situation today where Monmouth and Woodbine ran stake races at the same time (and for that matter seemingly each race on the card).

[Stillriledup]

There was a situation today where Monmouth and Woodbine ran stake races at the same time (and for that matter seemingly each race on the card).

Monmouth is doing a pretty good job not running on top of NYRA, their goal is to avoid the NYRA race as much as possible, if you want to bet NYRA and Monmouth, both tracks do a fine job of not running on top of each other.

[onefast99]

i saw they are building a sports betting parlor in Monmouth that William Hill is going to run. if they operate like the casino's in Nevada they will do well as long as they can keep the doors open. that place will do over $100 million a week in sports bets and maybe a lot more if they get phone bets.
yes Hill got the deal....
http://www.monmouthpark.com/barn_notes.aspx?id=7131

[lamboguy]

yes Hill got the deal....
http://www.monmouthpark.com/barn_notes.aspx?id=7131i know Hill put up the money for the Haskell, do you know if any of the proceeds from the sports betting will go towards the purses?

for Monmouth to see sports betting this fall is still a longshot in my mind. but anything is possible.

[Tom]

....the Jockey Club had gone so far as to build a race scheduling app which they then integrated into the Encompass System. Jim told me the app had been made available at no additional cost to track management in the hopes they would only use it.

You can't fix stupid.

[tanner12oz]

Not to defend mnr but the long objection followed by another inquiry may have affected the timing of things....i attend the WV derby yearly and I thought having it on Sunday (like they use too) would be better

[Stillriledup]

Not to defend mnr but the long objection followed by another inquiry may have affected the timing of things....i attend the WV derby yearly and I thought having it on Sunday (like they use too) would be better

You're talking about the horse who won by 10 lengths with out town connections getting disqualified on an incredibly bogus call?

[TravisVOX]

Anyone who has spent a minute with me during the race day knows what goes into setting post times for races. At Louisiana Downs, the post time in the program is nothing more than a placeholder. Every morning I have a spreadsheet created with every track, race and scheduled post time listed. I then sort and spend up to an hour making adjustments to our races before letting our paddock judge know the new tentative schedule. I have to make sure we have enough time for the horse's to travel to the paddock and for the tractor's to have enough time to do their thing too.

From there, there are constant updates, tweaks and adjustments. Objection at Saratoga? Add a few minutes. Arlington running behind, make adjustments etc. There are times when we'll "sacrifice" a race just to get ahead of other tracks. This past Saturday we ended 30 minutes later than scheduled.

The real challenge is that some tracks take, in general, 32 minutes between their races while others take 24. Some start at 24 and eventually stretch to 26. Some wait around an extra two minutes beyond post time every single race.

My point is that it's not quite "set it and forget it." In this particular case, my bet is the TV broadcast handcuffed them a bit. Sure, they could have gone five minutes later, but that's not enough of a gap between the races to impact the pools. Five minutes earlier and you're still too close to the big race of the day.

All of this said, and I won't name names, but there are quite a few tracks I see daily who clearly don't give a hoot where their times fall and make absolutely zero adjustments.

[TravisVOX]

-jp

Tried sending you a PM, but your inbox is bloated.

[PoloUK6108]

This annoyed me as well, running right on top of the Whitney. If I hadn't been at the track to bet a race at Ellis and the whitney, I wouldn't have even known the WVA Derby was running during the day. Why wouldn't they run at night under the lights? Had to bounce from screen to screen during the races and remember my bets in my head for toga and mtnr simultanously..just annoying. Seems alot more entertaining to me to run at night if you have the facility to do so. Same thing w/ BC at Churchill rather than SA...

[tanner12oz]

You're talking about the horse who won by 10 lengths with out town connections getting disqualified on an incredibly bogus call?
after the out of town horse was photoed, given the trophy and winners check was written out.....yes

[tanner12oz]

This annoyed me as well, running right on top of the Whitney. If I hadn't been at the track to bet a race at Ellis and the whitney, I wouldn't have even known the WVA Derby was running during the day. Why wouldn't they run at night under the lights? Had to bounce from screen to screen during the races and remember my bets in my head for toga and mtnr simultanously..just annoying. Seems alot more entertaining to me to run at night if you have the facility to do so. Same thing w/ BC at Churchill rather than SA...
no lights for the turf course...would have to move the schedule around carding the turf races before it got dark

[Al Gobbi]

no lights for the turf course...would have to move the schedule around carding the turf races before it got dark

Mountaineer has lights for the turf course, they just apparently don't want to run those type of races after sunset.

[Jeff P]

Tried sending you a PM, but your inbox is bloated.That happens sometimes... I cleared out some older PM's. (Try sending again.)


-jp

.

[SandyLoam]

I, too, thought the same thing in looking at the post time conflict, on two ersatz national networks, no less. But then I saw something that most certainly helped me decide not to bet Mountaineer AT ALL that day.

It was this:
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/78159/mountaineer-horse-death-spurs-investigation

[Stillriledup]

I, too, thought the same thing in looking at the post time conflict, on two ersatz national networks, no less. But then I saw something that most certainly helped me decide not to bet Mountaineer AT ALL that day.

It was this:
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/78159/mountaineer-horse-death-spurs-investigation

What got me away from Mountaineer is the presence of the "Mad Bomber" who cancels large wagers at post time and throws the entire tote board out of whack. Mtn has known about this for a long time and refuses to do anything about it.

[tanner12oz]

Mountaineer has lights for the turf course, they just apparently don't want to run those type of races after sunset.
are you sure? I have heard the no turf lights excuse on tvg and only saw the dirt track lights on Saturday when I was trackside

[tanner12oz]

What got me away from Mountaineer is the presence of the "Mad Bomber" who cancels large wagers at post time and throws the entire tote board out of whack. Mtn has known about this for a long time and refuses to do anything about it.
seriously ya really gotta be careful there if your a follow steam player...its literally almost every race he strikes

[onefast99]

i know Hill put up the money for the Haskell, do you know if any of the proceeds from the sports betting will go towards the purses?

for Monmouth to see sports betting this fall is still a longshot in my mind. but anything is possible.
That is the $64000 question, what exactly will the group running Monmouth do with any revenues they generate under Darby?
Hill has agreed to sponsor the Haskell for the next two years, build a sports bar and eventually sink $5 million into a sports book on the site of the Lady’s Secret Café in Monmouth Park’s clubhouse, while splitting the revenues from sports betting with the horsemen.

Based on Drazins comments in a recently run story. Here is the link to the entire story.
http://www.app.com/article/20130720/NJCOLUMNIST09/307200051/Haskell-Invitational?nclick_check=1

[Stillriledup]

seriously ya really gotta be careful there if your a follow steam player...its literally almost every race he strikes

I dont care about steam, i just need to have a good idea of accurate pricing when i make a play. I routinely bet against the 'wise guy' who makes a big,early wager, i'll find a value horse to beat him on many occasions, i just don't need to be betting on the 4-1 second favorite and then that horse goes to 8-5 and the favorite, who was 1-5 at the time goes to 6-5.

[affirmedny]

are you sure? I have heard the no turf lights excuse on tvg and only saw the dirt track lights on Saturday when I was trackside

Mountainman has posted here before I think that the turf has lights but the jocks don't want them to run on it at night because it gets slick from dew after dark.

[tanner12oz]

Mountainman has posted here before I think that the turf has lights but the jocks don't want them to run on it at night because it gets slick from dew after dark.
that's better the the "bulbs are out" answer I expected to hear...the classy venue in Chester,WV eradicated a bees nest in the picnic area during Saturdays action...every 15 mins or so a hills have eyes track employee would douse the area with bee killer...which of course was carried by the wind into the dozens of tables of people eating within 20 ft or so....damn bees nest must have sprung up overnight or something

[VeryOldMan]

are you sure? I have heard the no turf lights excuse on tvg and only saw the dirt track lights on Saturday when I was trackside

I thought I read something from Mark P. to this effect - the reason the turf races are at the beginning of the card is because the lights don't light up the turf course after dark. I'll defer to the MNR experts.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...a hills have eyes track employee...

:lol:

It went from a mundane anecdote to a Technicolor production in a half dozen well placed words.

[nijinski]

that's better the the "bulbs are out" answer I expected to hear...the classy venue in Chester,WV eradicated a bees nest in the picnic area during Saturdays action...every 15 mins or so a hills have eyes track employee would douse the area with bee killer...which of course was carried by the wind into the dozens of tables of people eating within 20 ft or so....damn bees nest must have sprung up overnight or something

The enviro mentals would have been all over that bee hive eradication if
they knew . :lol:

[PoloUK6108]

:lol:

It went from a mundane anecdote to a Technicolor production in a half dozen well placed words.

:D

[Stillriledup]

Mountaineer ran their 6th today right on top of a 50k "stake" at Charlestown.

They are the only 2 tracks that are running on the east coast other than Penn (who was 10 MTP)

Nice job guys.

[Tom]

Lack of respect for the bettors marches on......no excuses.
And if you have an excuse, you should be fired.