Timonium 2013

[Track Collector]

It is August, which means the Timonium Fair and horseraces are just a short time away. This year, Timonium has expanded their typical 7-day race meet to 10 days. :jump:

A number of folks have expressed interest in attending the races this year, and also with meeting up with fellow PaceAdvantage forum members. To facilitate those efforts, and to provide a forum for on-going discussion of the meet, I decided to create this thread.

Given that folks may choose to attend one day over another when other PA members are going to be there, I will be creating and updating a master list of racing dates and likely attendees on the next posting. As you indicate your intentions throughout this thread, I will make the updates under posting#2, which will serve as the single place to look regarding our collective visits.

If you enjoy dinning in a clubhouse, dressed in fine clothes, and sipping a nice wine, then Timonium Fair is probably not for you. On the other hand, if you like sitting in your own lawn chair or an open-air grandstand, snacking on home-brought food and munchies, having a cold beer, and enjoying the ponies up close and personal on a bullring track with tightly-banked turns, then Timonium is something I think you are really going to like. For the races, they even pay you real money if you win! :)


...

[Track Collector]

Listed below are the race dates and possible PA-forum attendees. This list will be revised as updates are received. If you have posted your intentions under a different thread, it is requested that you re-post them under this thread as well.

Friday (08/23) --> bks, proximity, ronsmac, Track Collector, wiffleball whizz
Saturday (08/24) --. ronsmac, Track Collector, whiffleball whizz
Sunday (08/25) --> ronsmac, Track Collector
Monday (08/26) --> Track Collector
Tuesday (08/27) --> Dark. No racing this day.
Wednesday (08/28) --> Track Collector
Thursday (08/29) --> Track Collector
Friday (08/30) --> Track Collector
Saturday (08/31) --> ronsmac, Track Collector
Sunday (09/01) --> proximity, ronsmac, Track Collector, wiffleball whizz
Labor Day Monday (09/02) --> ronsmac, Track Collector

Note: * after the name designates tentative. BOLDED names indicate who actually attended.


Suggested Meeting Area: Simulcast Area ($2 cover charge) located on the 2nd floor of the grandstand structure. Subject area is air conditioned, and has two live tellers, several self-service betting terminals, multiple monitors showing simulcast races, and loose tables and chairs which if I arrive early, I can group together for us near an electrical outlet. I have also found it safe enough to leave items there when going out to watch a live race.

[wiffleball whizz]

Should be an awesome time.....I gotta look at this itinerary for work to see what days I'm free....can't wait.....

And what days are timonium/Charlestown double headers on the table?

[Track Collector]

I have already listed in the visit summary the 5 dates I definately plan to be there on. Except for Labor Day Monday, they will be Timonium / Charles Town doubleheader visits.

In reality, I will likely be there at least another 3 days. The mostly-likely days to be missed are the first Monday, and perhaps one of the 2 Sundays. Decisions on those dates will be made as the time approaches, and will be based on the weather, expected fields sizes, tiredness, etc. Updates will be added to the visit list in post#2 as they become known.

How quickly can a person become "raced out". I guess I will find out soon enough. :)

[ronsmac]

I have already listed in the visit summary the 5 dates I definately plan to be there on. Except for Labor Day Monday, they will be Timonium / Charles Town doubleheader visits.

In reality, I will likely be there at least another 3 days. The mostly-likely days to be missed are the first Monday, and perhaps one of the 2 Sundays. Decisions on those dates will be made as the time approaches, and will be based on the weather, expected fields sizes, tiredness, etc. Updates will be added to the visit list in post#2 as they become known.

How quickly can a person become "raced out". I guess I will find out soon enough. :)
Track collector, do you know why they've gone back to the 10 day format? I hope they don't have trouble filling the cards, I kind of liked the idea of 7 days.

[proximity]

if we don't pay that $2, you will come out and visit us right?:D

[Track Collector]

Particularly for 1st timers, here is some miscellaneous information about various aspects of Timonium.

Admission Cost (covers the fair and racing): It was $8 last year.

Timonium Racing Program: Usually $3

Parking: $3 if you get there early enough to park in the fair lot. $5 for parking at local businesses close to the fairgrounds.

Food/Drink Choices: There are several stands on both levels within the grandstand structure. Some also sell beer and mixed drinks. There is also a small restaurant/bar on the 2nd floor of the grandstand structure right beside the Simulcast area.

Inside the fair itself, there are the usual type vendors with their portable stands selling pizza, french fries, cotton candy, etc. Down deeper into the fair is the Maryland Food Court, and it comes highly recommended. I think it is run by local organizations looking to raise monies for their cause. There are a number of different booths, with each specializing in something different. Among thoses specialties are Beef, Chicken, Greek, Turkey, BBQ, and one of my favorites, Seafood, where you can get a crab cake sandwick, platter of fried clams,.....yum!

As with last year, I suspect they will continue with the policy of letting folks bring in their own food and coolers. I'm not sure if there is a size restriction, but I do know that you can not bring in any items like alcohol if they are in glass containers.

Simulcasting: Simulcasts are offered every day there is live racing. I'm not sure if there will be any offered on the Tuesday where there will be no live racing. Simulcasting is not offered in the evening. Tracks like Saratoga, Calder, and Monmouth are always offered. Delaware is another one that is frequently offered. I think there may also be another track or two (like Parx), but I can not remember. (Note: There are a number of monitors located throughout the grandstand structure showing simulcasts, so one does not have to go into the Simulcast Area to watch and wager on them.).

Viewing: As with almost all small "fair" tracks, there is no tv screen near the tote board to watch the race. Given the layout and oval size (5/8 mile), one has very good to excellent viewing from just about any place in the grandstands. For me personally, I always take along binoculars any time I go to the live races.

Other Items of Interest: Racing at Timonium is a part of the Maryland State Fair. As such, one can find many of the usual things associated with an agricultural fair, such as contests for judging rabbits, sheep, etc. and other various exhibits. As a racing fan, I particularly like the large chalk-drawn "racing" mural on the 2nd floor grandstand back wall. Another item of interest was just pointed out to me this year by ronsmac. It is a building at the other end of the fairgrounds containing some history on the racing and the fair.


...


...

[Track Collector]

Track collector, do you know why they've gone back to the 10 day format? I hope they don't have trouble filling the cards, I kind of liked the idea of 7 days.

Without having any inside knowledge, I think the reason is pretty straight forward. Fair attendance (and revenue) are significantly less on days where live racing is not offered.

Racing is a huge draw and nice money-making event for the fair, so when they were granted extra monies thru the slots program for racing and site improvement, they decided to give it a try. I too am concerned if they will get enough horses to cover the extra days. I thought I read somewhere that before deciding to add the additional 3 days, input was sought from the horsemen to make sure they would enter enough horses to make the extra 3 days go. I do see that Charles Town is not running like they have traditionally done on Labor Day Monday. I guess as a fall-back plan, the fair could always decide to reduce the number of races (perhaps 7 on the non-labor day Monday and maybe 8 on the Wednesday and Thursday). Maybe the (higher) purses and extra bonuses for MD-breds will make this a non-issue. I hope so!

One other theory I have is that to a "limited" degree, it could be a test case for future things to come. When Colonial Downs opened a number of years ago, I think there was some type of agreement with the Maryland Jockey Club to support that meet, and not run a meet of their own in MD over the summer. I think that agreement has since expired, and since Colonial runs about 85% of their races on the Turf, Timonium is strongly considering an extended summer meet (perhaps 25-30 days) as an alternative to shipping all the way down to New Kent county, VA. If this becomes a viable idea, I think some changes are needed to the current legislation.

I hope you can make it one or more times!


Chris


...

[Track Collector]

if we don't pay that $2, you will come out and visit us right?:D

They don't have any POKER tables at Timonium, so how am I going to find you? Do they have a designated "eye candy" area? :)

Besides, all the normal routines could change with the arrival of the forum famous, wandering nomad wiffleball whizz. :jump:

[Track Collector]

And what days are timonium/Charlestown double headers on the table?

It looks like 5 days total.

They are:
Friday (08/23)
Saturday (08/24)
Thursday (08/29)
Friday (08/30)
Saturday (08/31)


Charles Town is also running on Sunday (08/25), but at the same time as Timonium. No double header opportunity there, unless you only want to see a few races at each.


...

[wiffleball whizz]

if we don't pay that $2, you will come out and visit us right?:D

Could be one of the greatest posts ever......

Stuck $14.50 before I make a play...

$8 admission
$2 extra admission
4.50 simulcast book

14.50 x at least 5.....72.50......

If either the :1: or :1a: show up that rule this site they get all the food they can eat during racing hours!!!!!

[proximity]

They don't have any POKER tables at Timonium, so how am I going to find you? Do they have a designated "eye candy" area? :)

Besides, all the normal routines could change with the arrival of the forum famous, wondering nomad wiffleball whizz. :jump:

the way things are going, i'll probably be sitting on the ground outside the room with a $1.90 voucher. :)

pencil (not pen) me in for opening day.

[proximity]

4.50 simulcast book


you're not bringing the milkowski ratings??

[ronsmac]

I change my plans so I could be there opening day. that way if I lose my shirt, I can get it out of the way early, and at least say I went to the fair for the first time in 10 years. if I have any success I will be there all weekend for sure.

[wiffleball whizz]

I can still cry about the $8 admission but on my first day there....proximity paid my $8!!!!!!!! Class act all the way!!!! Guess those poker posts i make does good for the readers here :lol: :lol: :lol:

I still see the pyramids are a part of the game :lol: :lol: :lol:

Always good to see posters here book wins!!!

[Track Collector]

I can still cry about the $8 admission but on my first day there....proximity paid my $8!!!!!!!! Class act all the way!!!! Guess those poker posts i make does good for the readers here :lol: :lol: :lol:

I still see the pyramids are a part of the game :lol: :lol: :lol:

Always good to see posters here book wins!!!

proximity is a class act! I am very glad to have met him at Charles Town back in 2009!

With that act of hospitality, I would like to suggest that proximity use that $8 instead to buy you a beer or something yummy at the Maryland Food Court. While I can not provide a 100% guarantee, I have a reasonable confidence level (not to be confused with confidence intervals discussed in another thread :p) to believe that I can get in free, along with several "guests". I will find out for sure when at the admission on opening day (Friday, 08/23). One condition to this free entry will be that we all enter at the same time. In a future post, I'll post some more information about how and where to meet up.

If this ends up working out the way I hope it does, the stated $8 daily admission fee will be eliminated on any days I am at the races, and thus not be a deterrent to any forum member thinking about attending.

Based on his recent response, I'll add wiffleball whizz to the list of first day attendees. As your future plans become known, let me know any other dates you will be attending.


Chris

[ronsmac]

That's a great hook up track collector.

[proximity]

With that act of hospitality, I would like to suggest that proximity use that $8 instead to buy you a beer or something yummy at the Maryland Food Court. .

it went down in the box. final toke of my revel career.:(

he's still going to have to come up with a deuce to meet the "master of the match" though!!:)

can't wait to hear how you came upon this Timonium deal!!

ttt 4 the fair!!

[wiffleball whizz]

I thinks it's pretty much 1/9 that I'm gonna find some way to beat this 8 ball at the admission gate......had a nightmare of going to the admissions gate last night handing the girl $20 and getting back $12....

I'm not a cheap person in the least but paying $8 to get my teeth kicked in is over the top......that being said I'm walk around the next 14 or so days thinking that I'll be getting free admission Hahahahaha

But when the smoke clears I'm a firm believer that there will be stacks of free fair admission coupons laying in the HR office of Maryland live casino

Really gonna be a great time hanging out with members for
Here

[proximity]

I thinks it's pretty much 1/9 that I'm gonna find some way to beat this 8 ball at the admission gate......had a nightmare of going to the admissions gate last night handing the girl $20 and getting back $12....



a more realistic nightmare is that meeting track collector will inspire you to make a drive to Anthony, Kansas for some kind of special mixed t-bred- quarterhorse- dog card or something!!:eek:

[wiffleball whizz]

a more realistic nightmare is that meeting track collector will inspire you to make a drive to Anthony, Kansas for some kind of special mixed t-bred- quarterhorse- dog card or something!!:eek:

Very exited to meet TC........very very organized with his organization of this meet up at timonium.....

Too bad TC can't make it to CT tnrw night....gonna be getting some timeformus for the road trip tnrw night....

Again it's gotta be 1/9 there is fair coupons at the hr office.....

[tanner12oz]

What's the caliber of racing here? Will twinspires or anyone pick this up or is it on track only?

[ronsmac]

What's the caliber of racing here? Will twinspires or anyone pick this up or is it on track only?
They've raised purses for 2013, So they'll probably have some pretty decent horses, the field size could be iffy though. It's a great place to watch a race live, I was able to bet it online last yr.

[wiffleball whizz]

What's the caliber of racing here? Will twinspires or anyone pick this up or is it on track only?

My take is if you can get down on the race it's a good race...

Just like when a friend asked me "if this was a good game to go too" I said if there's a line on it it's a good game!!!

[craigbraddick]

Anyone here who wants a free day out at TDN with lunch, programs, trip to the backside, etc, just email me on here!

Craig

[Track Collector]

What's the caliber of racing here? Will twinspires or anyone pick this up or is it on track only?

Although this is a fair, it is a part of the MD circuit, so traditionally it is carried by most of the well-known ADWs will offer it on their simulcast menu.

The caliber of racing is also quite decent in my opinion, but then again, I'm partial to lower level racing. :)

In the next day or two I'll post the link to the condition book. It stacks up VERY WELL against the races scheduled for Charles Town.

[bks]

Hey TC,

Is Timonium the track where the Midlantic Yearling Sale is held during the early part of October? I've been to that sale a couple of times and I remember a track being there, though not any racing.

It's that track? You can put me down for Friday 8/23 if so, travelling from Philadelphia. My 3-year-old has to get introduced to the horses sometime, and I don't want to traumatize him by taking him to Parx.

[Edward DeVere]

Yup, it's that track.

[wiffleball whizz]

Anyone here who wants a free day out at TDN with lunch, programs, trip to the backside, etc, just email me on here!

Craig

Would love to take a trip to the Ohio tracks someday....especially northfield and tdn........thanks for the offer

[proximity]

Too bad TC can't make it to CT tnrw night....gonna be getting some timeformus for the road trip tnrw night....
.....

if you're going there tonight you might want to grab a cheap room at the northgate or something on your way into town. I have a hunch you might like the card room!! :eek:

[wiffleball whizz]

if you're going there tonight you might want to grab a cheap room at the northgate or something on your way into town. I have a hunch you might like the card room!! :eek:

Was thinking the same thing:...if I lose in wv in poker I
May hang them up!!

[Track Collector]

Although perhaps not of interest to most racing fans, I also like to look at the condition books of any fair I plan to attend to get a feel for how many races might be offered and info about them.

Here is the link to the current Timonium condition book: Timonium (http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbHorsemenAreaDownloadAction.cfm?sn=CB-TIM-20130823-20130902D) (You may need to hold down the "ctrl" key while clicking to access.).

It looks like the races stack up very well vs. those that will be offered at Charles Town at the same time. There will be a number of bonuses for Maryland-breds as well. The condition book shows as many as 12 races and up to 8 alternate races each day. In the end, they will likely end up with 9-10 races each day, but maybe we will be pleasantly surprised with more.

[Track Collector]

We are currently looking at 5 PA-member attendees on opening day.

Still looking for more who want a day of adventure. A meet-up place with "possible" free admission (an $8 per adult savings) to be discussed a few days before the first day of racing.

I know wiffleball whizz likes harness races......I hope he does not end up disappointed with just "flats" races. No poker or other forms of gambling at the fair either, except for the SKILO (Bingo) stand just inside the fair. Somehow I don't see SKILO as a WW-type of gambling activity. :D


.

[wiffleball whizz]

We are currently looking at 5 PA-member attendees on opening day.

Still looking for more who want a day of adventure. A meet-up place with "possible" free admission (an $8 per adult savings) to be discussed a few days before the first day of racing.

I know wiffleball whizz likes harness races......I hope he does not end up disappointed with just "flats" races. No poker or other forms of gambling at the fair either, except for the SKILO (Bingo) stand just inside the fair. Somehow I don't see SKILO as a WW-type of gambling activity. :D


.

I can't wait.....I'm sitting here just getting home from work sick I can't bet harness here on mon/tue nights at least....looks like I'll be going to rosecroft at some point....

I'll have to look into this skilo I may be intersted

Got so bad last night I was playing my friends in family feud on play station $20 a game.....

Sunday night we went to a Mexican restaurant and afterwards went to dave and busters and played skee-ball for $10 a game with some being 20...

Air hockey and basketball were also gambled on.....needless to say ill bet on anything....

And before you guys say I'm sick me playing these clowns in anything that requires skill is basically getting even money on a 1/9.....can't pass it up

[Si2see]

I would imagine with an owners license I could get at least a guest in free?

[wiffleball whizz]

I would imagine with an owners license I could get at least a guest in free?

At Least 1!!!!!!

[Track Collector]

I would imagine with an owners license I could get at least a guest in free?

I was told that by the person who encouraged me to recently get an owner's license that last year he was able to take in six friends one time, so 2 should be a breeze. :)


.

[Track Collector]

For those of you who plan to attend on Friday (08/23), I would suggest that we meet up just in front of the admissions gate on the Timonium Road side of the fairgrounds at 12:00 noon. The races start at 1:05 p.m., and this will give us plenty of time to get a table to share, grab a bite to eat, etc.

Timonium Road --> Interstate 83, Exit 16 from the North. Off the exit ramp, turn left. From the South, use exit 16A and bear off to the right.

Once on Timonium Road, the Fairgrounds will be on the left. After a very short distance you will cross a set of railroad tracks, then see the Fairgrounds parking lot immediately to the left. Red Cones will be set up to prevent a direct left-hand turn into the Fairground parking lot, so one must go up a little bit further and make a U-turn to travel in the desired direction. If open, the lot parking fee will be something like $3. If full, you will need to use one of the nearby parking areas which usually cost in the $5 range.

The admission gate is straight ahead once in the Fair parking lot. As indicated earlier, I "hope" to get everyone in without the usual $8 admission fee. If not, be prepared to cover that cost yourself, in which case I will have egg on my face. IMPORTANT NOTE: It is my intention that everyone arrive and be ready to enter together at 12:00 noon, but we can wait a few minutes for a late arrival if we know you are coming. As a final confirmation, please send me a private message to confirm your Friday (08/23) attendance, even if you have already indicated so earlier.

Thanks!


Chris

[wiffleball whizz]

Waiting on my Friday time frame at work...they making us day to day with the sked which I'm steaming about...

Hmmmmmm......if TC gets the crew in for free proximity might up +8 before he makes a bet with my prepaid admission!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[proximity]

proximity might (be) up +8 :lol: :lol: :lol:

there's a first time for everything.... :D

[proximity]

friends, i told track collector i'll be staying down at ct on thursday and friday. friday morning i'll be making the drive over to timonium and back to ct for the tim-ct DOUBLE. any ct area members who would like to ride over to timonium are welcome to do so, just let me know via pm.

[wiffleball whizz]

This Is total bulls*** I gotta sweat this work sked....I mean when the smoke clears I'll be at the bullring(s).....

Buy the way proximity if you wanna take your father to family and friends night I got free tix for u guys and anybody else that wants to go.....free prizes and whatnot......at Maryland live

[proximity]

This Is total bulls*** I gotta sweat this work sked....I mean when the smoke clears I'll be at the bullring(s).....

Buy the way proximity if you wanna take your father to family and friends night I got free tix for u guys and anybody else that wants to go.....free prizes and whatnot......at Maryland live


what/when is family and friends night??

one of these times i gotta take my dad to a.c. again. the guy is just good luck!!

next week is some of my last free time for a little while. don't know if i'll hit your room's opening, go to a.c., or just play horses day and night?????????

[wiffleball whizz]

what/when is family and friends night??

one of these times i gotta take my dad to a.c. again. the guy is just good luck!!

next week is some of my last free time for a little while. don't know if i'll hit your room's opening, go to a.c., or just play horses day and night?????????

Friday noon-4pm.......timonuim prob should take precedent

And I can't wait to get to tim.....thinking im working 9am-1 fri though not sure

[proximity]

arrived at ct and have settled in at the hotel.

I have a few plays there so I will be heading over to the track to watch them live and probably play some cards. (great poker at ct, although pathetic comps. hopefully whizz's new room doesn't totally destroy the action here though.) maybe finally try the Asian place beside the poker room.

will be heading off for Timonium with track collector in the morning. looking forward to seeing p.a. members there!!

[wiffleball whizz]

Well the work sked came out today for the next week....there's good news and bad news....

The good news is I'm off fri-mon....the bad news I'm off fri-mon HAHAHAHAHAHA....I'll be seeing the gang at high noon....

Proximity if I had known you guys were going to CT maybe I'd have went....meeting cj dad for the raven game....

The night before timonium,....I remember when it was a month ago and our tongues were waging!!!!

[proximity]

Proximity if I had known you guys were going to CT maybe I'd have went....meeting cj dad for the raven game....


I just went out myself. lost on everything except limit hold em, but not too much overall. got the lead with both horses I bet. first one just stopped after getting an easy lead, second one held on to place. was leading nl hold 'em but bet two pair on flop and turn before getting rundown by a straight on the river.

gotta get some sleep now. look forward to seeing everyone at the fair!!

[Track Collector]

Opening day, a very nice day it was!

I was able to get together again with proximity (Shayne), and to meet two very nice PA members for the first time, ronsmac (Ron) and wiffleball whizz (Rob). Bks had to pass due to an unplanned family visit, so we hope he can attend a different day when his schedule works out. We all hit it off with a great time together, enjoying racing stories, as well as live racing and some simulcast wagering. WW has a picture of the four of us enjoying our time in the Simulcast area, which we hope to post soon.

Weather was overcast, but the track was dry which makes for good efforts to handicap. I had a small down day at Timonium, but with a previously worked out wagering and handicapping strategy, it was not bad for the first day. The day seemed to go very quickly, as normally happens when having a good time. Saturday ronsmac and wiffleball whizz plan to come back again, so it would seem they not tap out bankroll wise. :) Shayne unfortunately has other obligations.

Proximity and I enjoyed the evening with dinner in the Charles Town clubhouse, so that meant a nice place to keep our stuff. The track remained sealed the whole night due to significant rain during the day. I again lost a little bit for the evening at the live CT races. Shayne had a nice Place and Show winner on a logshot ($12+ and $5+ respectively I recall), as well as the late double. As the races ended, I started for home, while he decided to visit the poker tables. Hopefully he will give us a favorable report.

Any new folks who would like to attend Saturday or any other racing day should send me a p-m. Although we do sit together, you are welcome to roam about as you like. Weather will be improved to partly sunny on Saturday, which always makes the experience more enjoyable.

Wiffleball whizz mentioned in another thread that the simulcast room was much nicer than what other folks had recalled. The make-over (new carpet and televisions) was completed before the start of the 2012 race season. What a bargain at $2!!


Chris

[wiffleball whizz]

Friday was Definitly a great day at the races.....

Was thinking about this tonight at laurel why don't the big T set up the fair admission gate down past by where we got food and basically block off the race track crowd from the fair......

Still in disbelief on how nice the track portion of the fair is

[wiffleball whizz]

Forgot to mention coming out of laurel tonight after turning onto rt1 I guess it is there was a massive dwi check point.....it's been like 10 years since I've seen one but if you were drunk going into this one you were a dead duck.....like 12 cops u had to get by.....here was the dialect when they stopped my car

Cop: hi sir have u been drinking tonight? (flash light in my eyes)

Me: I wish I was drinking tonight

Cop: what do you mean

Me: lost $950 at the track...drinking would have been cheaper!!! (really lost 150) but that's besides the point!!!!

Cop: oh boy that sucks...

Me: it sure does!!!!!

[proximity]

Opening day, a very nice day it was!



indeed.

track picked me up early at the hotel and we endured a rainy drive over to the fair where I got to meet ronsmac. track snuck us in a special horseman's entrance.... or at least he snuck ronsmac in. I was busted by security, but told them I was red cloak of the pen racing illuminati and in I went!! wiffleball whizz was running a bit late, but I greeted him by the gate. tried to get a video on my phone of him paying the $8 admission, but was all thumbs in the effort. a bad beat in my quest to be p.a. poster of the year.

upstairs in the $2 room, track and ronsmac traded stories of their adw and rebate experiences. it always comes back to those tonkowa (sp) Indians!! without a single harness simulcast showing, whizz quickly dove into the action. I had an early "score" on a $4 horse, but ended up $24 in the red.

overall, a good afternoon of racing. Timonium had definitely been upgraded since my last visit and it was great meeting ronsmac and seeing the whizz in action. ronsmac had a good story about his dad and another guy trying to start their own version of the racing form that would have been interesting to hear more about and I didn't get to see whizz's video of md live..... although i'm sure i'll see it for myself soon enough, lol. overall though time flew by really fast and we were busy handicapping races and ripping on steve davidowitz, lol.

track and I survived the Maryland rush hour and made it to ct with about 20 min to spare. we tried out the dining room which had a pretty nice buffet. stuffed myself with chocolate cake after the main course. fell behind early in the ct betting, but rallied for a small win with a late winner and double.

after the card I headed down to the ct poker room and grinded out a $1.50 an hour, joey knish from rounders style. nice quiet walk back to the Hampton inn and the day was in the books. i survived the Timonium-Charles town double!!

[wiffleball whizz]

indeed.

track picked me up early at the hotel and we endured a rainy drive over to the fair where I got to meet ronsmac. track snuck us in a special horseman's entrance.... or at least he snuck ronsmac in. I was busted by security, but told them I was red cloak of the pen racing illuminati and in I went!! wiffleball whizz was running a bit late, but I greeted him by the gate. tried to get a video on my phone of him paying the $8 admission, but was all thumbs in the effort. a bad beat in my quest to be p.a. poster of the year.

upstairs in the $2 room, track and ronsmac traded stories of their adw and rebate experiences. it always comes back to those tonkowa (sp) Indians!! without a single harness simulcast showing, whizz quickly dove into the action. I had an early "score" on a $4 horse, but ended up $24 in the red.

overall, a good afternoon of racing. Timonium had definitely been upgraded since my last visit and it was great meeting ronsmac and seeing the whizz in action. ronsmac had a good story about his dad and another guy trying to start their own version of the racing form that would have been interesting to hear more about and I didn't get to see whizz's video of md live..... although i'm sure i'll see it for myself soon enough, lol. overall though time flew by really fast and we were busy handicapping races and ripping on steve davidowitz, lol.

track and I survived the Maryland rush hour and made it to ct with about 20 min to spare. we tried out the dining room which had a pretty nice buffet. stuffed myself with chocolate cake after the main course. fell behind early in the ct betting, but rallied for a small win with a late winner and double.

after the card I headed down to the ct poker room and grinded out a $1.50 an hour, joey knish from rounders style. nice quiet walk back to the Hampton inn and the day was in the books. i survived the Timonium-Charles town double!!


Hahahahahahahahahaha what a trip/day report!!!!!! One of the best posts of the year.....very ashamed of myself not going to CT and adding a double header to
My resume....!!!!

I really enjoyed The 4 hours at the big T.....proximity, track collecter and ronsmac were I'd bet the sharpest 3 guys in the building in terms of betting and overall track knowledge....there's no doubt I was low man on the totum pole in handicapping at our table!!

TC made mention of timonium possibly running 25 days next year that would be awesome

Oh and how can I forget all the rebate talk.....just made me realize how much I'm really behind the 8ball In horse wagering

Hoping to fall asleep soon so I can wake up and go tnrw!!! Can't wait

[ronsmac]

Yesterday was a fantastic day at the races. Timonium is the place where I made my first wager as a 13 yr old, Just walking into the track brought back great memories. I met Track Collector, He reminded me of a younger version of my Dad's best friend John. He had such a wealth of knowledge, stories, and memories that he could write a dozen books if he wanted to. I also met Proximity, he also reminded me of an old buddy of mine from the military, just layed back and cool. Both of their Adw experiences and mine were so similar , that I just had to chuckle. They both made a stranger feel welcomed. Of course the anticipation of the day was waiting to meet a celebrity. Wiffleball Whizz was running late ala Michael Jackson or Beyoncee at a sold out concert, which just built up the anticipation. He didn't dissapoint. He's a sharp guy with a cool personality to match. Yesterday was the first time I've watched live racing in person in 10 yrs or so , It reminded me of one of the pitfalls of at home wagering, The human interaction that made me fall in love with horse racing in the first place. I know the guys on this forum who play strictly for profit may or may not like the solitude of betting at home, but yesterday brought back memories of how racing is supposed to be. Thanks TC for organizing this event, and the free admission was awesome. I'll see you guys again today.

[Track Collector]

It was just ronsmac and me today, as wiffleball whizz had to work, then apparently got lost on the way.

What beautiful weather we had......hope everyone gets these kind of days when they attend live racing.

I ended up a winner this time, and actually held my own down at Charles Town during the evening. Ronsmac hit the late double, and it would seem he is a crazy enough to come back again on Sunday! All after not attending any live races in about 10 years. Not sure about wiffleball whizz and his Sunday work schedule.

Happy racing everyone.


Chris

[wiffleball whizz]

It was just ronsmac and me today, as wiffleball whizz had to work, then apparently got lost on the way.

What beautiful weather we had......hope everyone gets these kind of days when they attend live racing.

I ended up a winner this time, and actually held my own down at Charles Town during the evening. Ronsmac hit the late double, and it would seem he is a crazy enough to come back again on Sunday! All after not attending any live races in about 10 years. Not sure about wiffleball whizz and his Sunday work schedule.

Happy racing everyone.


Chris

It's possible but won't know till last minute with all these state tests getting ready for the opening at work....glad you guys got the monies today!!!!

Not really much of a suprise to me that you and Ronny got to the winners circle today as the cream should rise to the top there!!!!

As for me I sure didn't get lost tonight going to laurel......buried me 9 feet into the ground.....made bets that even I'm embarrassed to say I made tonite,...

Hope to see you guys soon....

[ronsmac]

It's possible but won't know till last minute with all these state tests getting ready for the opening at work....glad you guys got the monies today!!!!

Not really much of a suprise to me that you and Ronny got to the winners circle today as the cream should rise to the top there!!!!

As for me I sure didn't get lost tonight going to laurel......buried me 9 feet into the ground.....made bets that even I'm embarrassed to say I made tonite,...

Hope to see you guys soon....
I wouldn't go that far Whizz, I hit the first race, was up about a buck and a half, lost the next few races, then made a last second switch that cost me a 114 dollar exacta by keying some plug from Beulah of all places. That was a very stupid bet that had me questioning my sanity. Pissed that I blew that exacta, i then bet on a 2-1 shot who quickly went to the lead only to break down going into the first turn. Now , I'm thinking this is going to be a bad day. Then I caught the 9th race exacta and late Double, which both came back underlayed. I cashed but was a little dissapointed in the payoffs. Late DD pool is small, so I may have hurt my own price. On my way out today with The Track Collector to try once again. LOL

[Edward DeVere]

, then made a last second switch that cost me a 114 dollar exacta

Loved that race and completely lost track while goofing around. Would have had everything. Win, exacta and triple were ridiculous overlays.

Not that I'm bitter or anything. . . .

[Track Collector]

Another great day for racing. I was joined by ronsmac.

Both of us ended up winners, so it has turned out to be a successful meet financially after the first three days of racing. Ronsmac nailed an excellent $91+ exacta.

The day started off interesting enough. With about 20 minutes to the first post, Dave Rodman comes on over the Public Address system with a welcome to the Timonium race fans of the day, followed by our forum names. Since I had not seen wiffleball whizz, my first impression was that he had somehow made his way up to the announcer both and made someone aware that our group was there. So off I went to check this out. Turns out that Equibase chart caller Keith Feustie, who is a frequent PaceAdvantage forum "lurker", saw this thread and decided to give us a shout out. Thanks Keith and Dave, you made an enjoyable day even more so. Thanks too for letting us watch a race from a unique view that few get to see!

Saturday ronsmac is expected to return. Not sure when any others will be back, so I'll likely be solo for the next 4 racing days.


...

[ronsmac]

Loved that race and completely lost track while goofing around. Would have had everything. Win, exacta and triple were ridiculous overlays.

Not that I'm bitter or anything. . . . I definitely blew it because that was the bet I was going to make. I wasn't going to play triples only the exacta, Im sorry that you forgot to bet that race, its hard to let sweet exactas and trifectas like that slip by if you like those horses. here's hoping you nail the next one .

[ronsmac]

Another great day for racing. I was joined by ronsmac.

Both of us ended up winners, so it has turned out to be a successful meet financially after the first three days of racing. Ronsmac nailed an excellent $91+ exacta.

The day started off interesting enough. With about 20 minutes to the first post, Dave Rodman comes on over the Public Address system with a welcome to the Timonium race fans of the day, followed by our forum names. Since I had not seen wiffleball whizz, my first impression was that he had somehow made his way up to the announcer both and made someone aware that our group was there. So off I went to check this out. Turns out that Equibase chart caller Keith Feustie, who is a frequent PaceAdvantage forum "lurker", saw this thread and decided to give us a shout out. Thanks Keith and Dave, you made an enjoyable day even more so. Thanks too for letting us watch a race from a unique view that few get to see!

Saturday ronsmac is expected to return. Not sure when any others will be back, so I'll likely be solo for the next 4 racing days.


...I wish I could get out there the next 4 days, but I'm 1/9 for Saturday and Closing day, and 8/5 for Sunday. It was another great day and once again big props to Track Collector.

[wiffleball whizz]

Another great day for racing. I was joined by ronsmac.

Both of us ended up winners, so it has turned out to be a successful meet financially after the first three days of racing. Ronsmac nailed an excellent $91+ exacta.

The day started off interesting enough. With about 20 minutes to the first post, Dave Rodman comes on over the Public Address system with a welcome to the Timonium race fans of the day, followed by our forum names. Since I had not seen wiffleball whizz, my first impression was that he had somehow made his way up to the announcer both and made someone aware that our group was there. So off I went to check this out. Turns out that Equibase chart caller Keith Feustie, who is a frequent PaceAdvantage forum "lurker", saw this thread and decided to give us a shout out. Thanks Keith and Dave, you made an enjoyable day even more so. Thanks too for letting us watch a race from a unique view that few get to see!

Saturday ronsmac is expected to return. Not sure when any others will be back, so I'll likely be solo for the next 4 racing days.


...

That's awesome!!!!!!!!! Yes I will be there Saturday workimg is brutal....and that's awesome Dave roman gave u guys the shout out...

As for Keith how bout less lurking and more posting!!!!!!! Stop down in the $2 room and day hi...

This isn't the kieth that was doing charts at AC last year is it?

[wiffleball whizz]

Just to let you guys know I'm 100 percent for the big T Sunday......

Would love to have 1 more day with the gang

I'm free Saturday too but I already know I'll be glued to the recliner from noon to 1:30 or 2am sweating college football......

Hope to see ronsmac TC and proximity there

[ronsmac]

Just to let you guys know I'm 100 percent for the big T Sunday......

Would love to have 1 more day with the gang

I'm free Saturday too but I already know I'll be glued to the recliner from noon to 1:30 or 2am sweating college football......

Hope to see ronsmac TC and proximity thereI'm definitely there the last 3 days of the meet.

[proximity]

sunday trip now in jeopardy.

financing these trips out of pocket and just lost set over set (again) at pen.

pair of dimes and a beautiful ace-ten-four rainbow flop. :jump:

villain had aces.:faint:

[ronsmac]

sunday trip now in jeopardy.

financing these trips out of pocket and just lost set over set (again) at pen.

pair of dimes and a beautiful ace-ten-four rainbow flop. :jump:

villain had aces.:faint: I don't know a lot about poker but that sounds like a bad beat to me.

[proximity]

ok, was down to my last $12 tonight, but rallied to win all of yesterday's $ back and then some. so if i can get up by 10:00 sunday, count me in.

i will have to stick closer to track collector this time if he can get us in again as i did get a text today from none other than the REAL red cloak of the pen racing illuminati!!

"pole or gate," the text said.

apparently this was to be my punishment for either my sins against the handicapping of john bogar or my out of state use of the red cloak name.

i figured both would hurt, but that choosing "gate" would allow me to keep some of the little dignity i have. :D

turns out the text was about a morning workout and was meant for a trainer or jockey and sent to me by mistake!!

lucky again!!

hope to see everyone at the fair!!

[proximity]

can't believe it, but i'm up and ready for another great day of fair racing!!

0% trainer to kevin Patterson, 20-1 ml in the 5th? :confused:

[wiffleball whizz]

See you guys there!!!!!

[ronsmac]

can't believe it, but i'm up and ready for another great day of fair racing!!

0% trainer to kevin Patterson, 20-1 ml in the 5th? :confused: The 5th is a tough race, four of the highest fair percentage trainers are in the race

[cj's dad]

The 5th is a tough race, four of the highest fair percentage trainers are in the race

5th - FWIW - I'm looking at the 3's :1: &:7: Wish I were there !

[ronsmac]

5th - FWIW - I'm looking at the 3's :1: &:7: Wish I were there !
It's been a really fun meet, too bad you couldn't make it. There's always tomorrow, closing day.

[wiffleball whizz]

Hoping the rumor I heard was true about 25 days next year!!!!!

[proximity]

fortunately was able to make it today. a hot, muggy Maryland afternoon and a good idea by track collector to go in the $2 room, which today was a bargain!! we were joined again by ronsmac and wiffleball whizz.

the afternoon started slow.

I tried getting cute on some early plays, but only succeeded in putting myself in a hole that would get even deeper when I couldn't resist the odds on kevin Patterson's first Timonium loser in the 5th. track, possibly feeling the cumulative effects of the daily commute from western md.... including some DOUBLES:eek: ... seemed tired, but was soldiering on. even ronsmac was beginning to question his own stranglehold on the meet.

meanwhile back at the ranch, between the Timonium races, ww was playing some mth and apparently not satisfied with hitting four team parlays on back to back days, was setting up yet another college football coup..... even going as far to schedule a late sunday hair appointment so his hair was perfect for the game!! friends, this whizz is just a great all around gambler. kinda like an up and coming version of ace Rothstein from the movie casino.

finally in the 6th I get a hugh McMahon exacta box to put me back in the game and then listen as ronsmac reads my mind on jammie in the 7th. he thought jammie needed the lead to win and would get it with jd Acosta, just what I was thinking. unfortunately a router got out on the lead and jd tried to get jammie to rally from a stalking position and the horse just flattened out.

however both ronsmac and I would come back in the next race and start the late double with jd Acosta on a horse that paid a generous $29. in the 9th I had the 1,2 and ronsmac had the 3,7. only really confident the 5 could be eliminated, looking back I should have asked ronsmac if he wanted to chop it and then bet the other two horses to win. this would have insured me of having a nice day if any of the four horses won, got me even or up a little if one other two horses won, and only wiped me out if the five won. instead I opt for a hedge that ends up failing when ronsmac nails the race cold.... 3-7 giving him another great day at Timonium fair!!

whizz departed a couple races early to get ready for football and ronsmac and track went home to burn the midnight oil on tomorrow's meet ending card.

proximity, however would stick around and sample some of what the Maryland state fair had to offer.

it was a lonely walk through the crowded fair and I kinda felt like bmeadow in lovelock, Nevada in his great book blackjack autumn.

the late afternoon did start to cool down though and it was a refreshing break from racing and cards. there were over 7,000 exhibits apparently. everything from fruits and vegetables to baked goods and arts and crafts in addition to the animals. some of the award winning food was starting to get a little dried out with only a day left in the fair, but there were some impressive looking beans and peas from the nine blue ribbon winning gross family of Baltimore. over in the 4h pavilion I even got to see the gross family get presented with a special award. there was a great looking award winning chocolate cake in the 4h pavilion too that unfortunately wasn't for sale. I would have liked to have compared it to Charles town's cake from last week!! finally I got to see some pigs that were only two days old and of course the pig races were going too with stands filled..... despite there being seven minutes to post and no simulcasting, lol. I wonder what the takeout was!!

special thanks to ronsmac, track collector, and wiffleball whizz for the company. hope to see them and others next year!!

[wiffleball whizz]

Epic post......did you read the "timonium wrap up thread"?

As everybody can see here proximity can put up epic posts as good as anybody here.....it's a shame this fortnight at the fair has come to a close and the cauldron being extinguished like the Olympic torch

[wiffleball whizz]

And believe me I know the feeling ronsmac and TC are having a full day of racing tnrw it's hard to sleep....

And by the way had a great night shipping what I was up on a dead Colorado st squad......furious about it....was so hot I put in a deltoga play and hit a 6.80 piece and think sneaking into 2nd.....

[ronsmac]

fortunately was able to make it today. a hot, muggy Maryland afternoon and a good idea by track collector to go in the $2 room, which today was a bargain!! we were joined again by ronsmac and wiffleball whizz.

the afternoon started slow.

I tried getting cute on some early plays, but only succeeded in putting myself in a hole that would get even deeper when I couldn't resist the odds on kevin Patterson's first Timonium loser in the 5th. track, possibly feeling the cumulative effects of the daily commute from western md.... including some DOUBLES:eek: ... seemed tired, but was soldiering on. even ronsmac was beginning to question his own stranglehold on the meet.

meanwhile back at the ranch, between the Timonium races, ww was playing some mth and apparently not satisfied with hitting four team parlays on back to back days, was setting up yet another college football coup..... even going as far to schedule a late sunday hair appointment so his hair was perfect for the game!! friends, this whizz is just a great all around gambler. kinda like an up and coming version of ace Rothstein from the movie casino.

finally in the 6th I get a hugh McMahon exacta box to put me back in the game and then listen as ronsmac reads my mind on jammie in the 7th. he thought jammie needed the lead to win and would get it with jd Acosta, just what I was thinking. unfortunately a router got out on the lead and jd tried to get jammie to rally from a stalking position and the horse just flattened out.

however both ronsmac and I would come back in the next race and start the late double with jd Acosta on a horse that paid a generous $29. in the 9th I had the 1,2 and ronsmac had the 3,7. only really confident the 5 could be eliminated, looking back I should have asked ronsmac if he wanted to chop it and then bet the other two horses to win. this would have insured me of having a nice day if any of the four horses won, got me even or up a little if one other two horses won, and only wiped me out if the five won. instead I opt for a hedge that ends up failing when ronsmac nails the race cold.... 3-7 giving him another great day at Timonium fair!!

whizz departed a couple races early to get ready for football and ronsmac and track went home to burn the midnight oil on tomorrow's meet ending card.

proximity, however would stick around and sample some of what the Maryland state fair had to offer.

it was a lonely walk through the crowded fair and I kinda felt like bmeadow in lovelock, Nevada in his great book blackjack autumn.

the late afternoon did start to cool down though and it was a refreshing break from racing and cards. there were over 7,000 exhibits apparently. everything from fruits and vegetables to baked goods and arts and crafts in addition to the animals. some of the award winning food was starting to get a little dried out with only a day left in the fair, but there were some impressive looking beans and peas from the nine blue ribbon winning gross family of Baltimore. over in the 4h pavilion I even got to see the gross family get presented with a special award. there was a great looking award winning chocolate cake in the 4h pavilion too that unfortunately wasn't for sale. I would have liked to have compared it to Charles town's cake from last week!! finally I got to see some pigs that were only two days old and of course the pig races were going too with stands filled..... despite there being seven minutes to post and no simulcasting, lol. I wonder what the takeout was!!

special thanks to ronsmac, track collector, and wiffleball whizz for the company. hope to see them and others next year!!There is no question I'll be back at Timonium next year. It was awesome hanging with you guys. Proximity is as sharp as they come, Whizz knows football like nobody's business, and Track Collector, besides being a great handicapper is a gentleman to the utmost degree. I'm sad it all comes to an end tomorrow. I'm hoping the rain doesn't come. It's crazy that I haven't been to Timonium in about 10 yrs or so, I didn't know what I was missing. These have been the two best weekends I've had in a good while. T.C. I owe you big time.

[proximity]

There is no question I'll be back at Timonium next year. It was awesome hanging with you guys. Proximity is as sharp as they come, Whizz knows football like nobody's business, and Track Collector, besides being a great handicapper is a gentleman to the utmost degree. I'm sad it all comes to an end tomorrow. I'm hoping the rain doesn't come. It's crazy that I haven't been to Timonium in about 10 yrs or so, I didn't know what I was missing. These have been the two best weekends I've had in a good while. T.C. I owe you big time.


outside of Colorado he is deadly!!

oops? Denver's a Colorado team, right? :eek:

[proximity]

It's crazy that I haven't been to Timonium in about 10 yrs or so, I didn't know what I was missing. .

over the two days I was there it was apparent there were a lot of Maryland racing fans and staff that missed you as well. probably at least 4-6 people who remembered you from days gone by at Maryland tracks.

beyond odds lines, trifectas, and speed ratings there is a sense of community too that the live racing experience offers. and you even kinda stated that pretty eloquently before we all took off after the last race too.

[ronsmac]

over the two days I was there it was apparent there were a lot of Maryland racing fans and staff that missed you as well. probably at least 4-6 people who remembered you from days gone by at Maryland tracks.

beyond odds lines, trifectas, and speed ratings there is a sense of community too that the live racing experience offers. and you even kinda stated that pretty eloquently before we all took off after the last race too.
Well the final day at The Big T was just me and Track Collector. It was a very chalky day, I did hammer two short prices to win that went to the front and never looked back, but I was in an early hole, and that only got me half way back. I was alive in the late DD with a couple of horses that would get me even for the day. This after I gave about a 5 minute explanation to T.C. how the 2 horse couldn't win the finale. Of course I looked like a fool when the 2 fought gamely to the wire to win by a nose. So I ended on a losing note, but showed a profit for the meet, something I didn't expect on opening day. Can't wait until next yr.

[Track Collector]

The big T is over, and boy am I tired. It was certainly a nice meet though!

The weather was great the entire 10 days of racing, of which I was crazy enough to go to 9 days. Next year they are hoping to run 20+ days.

Financially, I finished the meet with a loss of 2.6% on the total money wagered. The last 3 days were all losses and doomed me to finishing in the red.

It was nice to show off the place, and to meet two new PaceAdvantage forum members. Wiffleball whizz seemed to like it, but as an always on the move type of guy, it is hard to keep him pinned in one spot for more than just a brief time. He also has lots of wagering activity going on separate from racing. Ronsmac was there for I believe 6 days, and it was enjoyable discussing racing from a stats and data perspective. It is hard to believe that before Timonium, his last live racing visit was about 10 years ago. He is excited and ready for next year's meet, so he will have to go thru the long 11+ month wait just like me! He will need to earn a lot of brownie points with his girlfriend so that he can "live" at Timonium again next year. Handicapping-wise, it was a very successful meet for him. :ThmbUp: Getting together with proximity is also always enjoyable, and with the long ride, I'm glad he could make it 2 days. Shayne was one of the very first PaceAdvantage members I met, and I'm sure we will get together again later this year at CT or Pen. Maybe he might even push me into my first casino poker event. :)

Thanks again guys for making this a special experience. Maybe we can pull in a few more PaceAdvantage members in next year.


Chris

[gheuks]

Where did you hear about to 20plus days of racing next year?? Haven't heard that, but if they can fill the cards, why not.

[Baitandswitch]

Sorry I joined in late, I was there on the VERY hot (91 degrees at post time) Sunday for the first 3 races.

[Track Collector]

Where did you hear about to 20plus days of racing next year?? Haven't heard that, but if they can fill the cards, why not.

A friend who is friends with a CT jockey's agent who usually has the inside scoop. Timonium may choose NOT to run that many days, but they will be allowed to do so from a legislative standpoint.


...

[gheuks]

Good info. I'm thinking Maryland horseman are looking for some local racing with pimlico and laurel dark all summer. This may be the reason why The Big T went back to the 10 day meet after just running 7 days for the past few years.

[PaceAdvantage]

With all the short fields they had for this 10 day meet, what the heck is it going to look like if they go to 20?

Not pretty I suspect...

[ronsmac]

With all the short fields they had for this 10 day meet, what the heck is it going to look like if they go to 20?

Not pretty I suspect... I don't think running 20 days will be the problem if its spread out over 5 weeks or so. Running 10 out of 11 days was a mistake.

[wiffleball whizz]

TC can we get a mileage report on how many miles u trekked during the timonium fortnight??!?!?

[ronsmac]

TC can we get a mileage report on how many miles u trekked during the timonium fortnight??!?!? I think TC told me he made 9 trips including 6 C-town double headers in the 11 days the fair was open.
Considering the distance he traveled everyday that has to be a rwcord.

[Track Collector]

I think TC told me he made 9 trips including 6 C-town double headers in the 11 days the fair was open.
Considering the distance he traveled everyday that has to be a rwcord.

It was 5 Tim/CT trips = 5 * 187 = 935
I also had 4 Tim trips = 4 * 158 = 632
Total miles = 1567
Instead of a record, it was nutty thing to do. :D

As to more race dates next year, it could be over a 7 to 10 week period, including the usual fair week. I would expect field sizes to be better because it would be more of a "normal" meet. It will be interesting to see their assessment of running the extra 3 days this year, and how much it helped the fair (and fair revenue). It would also help if Charles Town and Penn National did not tell horsemen that if they shipped out to race at Timonium, they would loose that stall space.


...

[wiffleball whizz]

I'm bumping this thread because it brings back memories of me salivating that football was only days away felt getting back into the swing of things

Boy how I wished it wasn't football season


I'm writing ti Maryland that the big T should have a winter meet just to throw us a bone.......



I'm allowed to dream can't i?