Jorge Navarro

[cj]

Anybody know the background of this miracle worker?

He was 23 for 46 off the claim before his latest claim romped by a pole or two in the Monmouth finale. Not only that, he did it with one of the worst jockeys on the circuit, 2 for 92 Francisco Maysonett. Just curious from which master horseman this guy learned the trade.

[lamboguy]

he's been winning now for the past couple of years. the people that were once North Atlantic Thoroughbreds are now with him, so he has much more stock. i watched his horses train at Monmouth in May and they were all going like gangbusters back then. i have no idea if he is using TB500 or something like that to get his horses to go right away.

[pondman]

Florida Division of Parimutual
"12-6-10 Consent Order Issued: Fined $500 FINE PAID 11-22-2010. CHECK #999999 FOR $500.00 NO ACCT LISTED ON CHECK.- JP MORGAN CHASE BANK Consent order signed 10-15-2010. 325 Calder Race Course Horse ROY'S GIRLS Drug Phenylbutazone Sample # 535397 Lab # A461750-HB"

Florida Division of Parimutual
On November 10, 2010, during a routine bam inspection by Inv. Diana Neira and Dennis Badillo, several medications were found in Navarro's unlocked tack room in Bam 5 at Calder Race Course. These medications had no prescription labels affixed as required by rule. Respondent shall pay a fine in the amount of One Hundred Dollars ($100.00). *See State Racing Commission?s official ruling for the complete text regarding the above mentioned incident.

Florida Division of Parimutual
Respondent was the trainer of record for and therefore the absolute insurer of the condition of a thoroughbred named BIBLIONICO at all times material hereto. On February 12, 2011, BIBLIONICO was entered in the 1st race at Tampa Bay Downs. A specimen sample taken from BIBLIONICO at the time of the race subsequently tested positive for hydroxyethyl promazine sulfoxide (a metabolite of acepromazine - a tranquilizer and a class 3 drug). Respondent shall pay a fine in the amount of Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00). *See State Racing Commission's official ruling for the complete text regarding the above mentioned incident.

Delaware Thoroughbred Commission

Trainer Jorge Navarro, having appeared for a hearing on Tuesday, July 27, 2012, Mr. Navarro is fined the sum of one thousand five hundred ($1,500.00) dollars for treating the horse, Pot of Gold, in the receiving barn with Lyte Now (Electrolyte Paste) within twenty-four hours prior to the schedule of his race, necessitating a scratch from the 5th race on Thursday, June 28, 2012.

[cj]

I just wonder where he learned his awesome horsemanship. I mean, three years ago he was a nobody starting a horse or two a week. Now he is a master craftsman. Is training horses really so easy that a lot guys become 30%+ trainers virtually overnight?

[speed]

I just wonder where he learned his awesome horsemanship. I mean, three years ago he was a nobody starting a horse or two a week. Now he is a master craftsman. Is training horses really so easy that a lot guys become 30%+ trainers virtually overnight?
Actually he does know his way around a race horse. Remember him from years ago he was working around his step dad Julian Canet at Calder. I think he spent a few years as assistant to Sam David maybe. With that said his hay and oats have never done a horse so much good. Scary move ups.

[lamboguy]

there are plenty of things that trainers can do to get a quick turnaround on a horse if they are claiming from a weaker trainer.

if they think a horse isn't performing good, they can put the horse on ulcer medication. if the neck is out of place they can work on that too and get fast results.

those guys have a pretty good idea what they can do before they claim the horse.

[chadk66]

Florida Division of Parimutual
"12-6-10 Consent Order Issued: Fined $500 FINE PAID 11-22-2010. CHECK #999999 FOR $500.00 NO ACCT LISTED ON CHECK.- JP MORGAN CHASE BANK Consent order signed 10-15-2010. 325 Calder Race Course Horse ROY'S GIRLS Drug Phenylbutazone Sample # 535397 Lab # A461750-HB"

Florida Division of Parimutual
On November 10, 2010, during a routine bam inspection by Inv. Diana Neira and Dennis Badillo, several medications were found in Navarro's unlocked tack room in Bam 5 at Calder Race Course. These medications had no prescription labels affixed as required by rule. Respondent shall pay a fine in the amount of One Hundred Dollars ($100.00). *See State Racing Commission?s official ruling for the complete text regarding the above mentioned incident.

Florida Division of Parimutual
Respondent was the trainer of record for and therefore the absolute insurer of the condition of a thoroughbred named BIBLIONICO at all times material hereto. On February 12, 2011, BIBLIONICO was entered in the 1st race at Tampa Bay Downs. A specimen sample taken from BIBLIONICO at the time of the race subsequently tested positive for hydroxyethyl promazine sulfoxide (a metabolite of acepromazine - a tranquilizer and a class 3 drug). Respondent shall pay a fine in the amount of Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00). *See State Racing Commission's official ruling for the complete text regarding the above mentioned incident.

Delaware Thoroughbred Commission

Trainer Jorge Navarro, having appeared for a hearing on Tuesday, July 27, 2012, Mr. Navarro is fined the sum of one thousand five hundred ($1,500.00) dollars for treating the horse, Pot of Gold, in the receiving barn with Lyte Now (Electrolyte Paste) within twenty-four hours prior to the schedule of his race, necessitating a scratch from the 5th race on Thursday, June 28, 2012.appears he struggles with the rules

[wiffleball whizz]

Chemists.com
Rx.com

Amazing what drugs can do

Maybe one of us can take over the racing world by this time next year

[Cannon shell]

Florida Division of Parimutual
"12-6-10 Consent Order Issued: Fined $500 FINE PAID 11-22-2010. CHECK #999999 FOR $500.00 NO ACCT LISTED ON CHECK.- JP MORGAN CHASE BANK Consent order signed 10-15-2010. 325 Calder Race Course Horse ROY'S GIRLS Drug Phenylbutazone Sample # 535397 Lab # A461750-HB"

Florida Division of Parimutual
On November 10, 2010, during a routine bam inspection by Inv. Diana Neira and Dennis Badillo, several medications were found in Navarro's unlocked tack room in Bam 5 at Calder Race Course. These medications had no prescription labels affixed as required by rule. Respondent shall pay a fine in the amount of One Hundred Dollars ($100.00). *See State Racing Commission?s official ruling for the complete text regarding the above mentioned incident.

Florida Division of Parimutual
Respondent was the trainer of record for and therefore the absolute insurer of the condition of a thoroughbred named BIBLIONICO at all times material hereto. On February 12, 2011, BIBLIONICO was entered in the 1st race at Tampa Bay Downs. A specimen sample taken from BIBLIONICO at the time of the race subsequently tested positive for hydroxyethyl promazine sulfoxide (a metabolite of acepromazine - a tranquilizer and a class 3 drug). Respondent shall pay a fine in the amount of Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00). *See State Racing Commission's official ruling for the complete text regarding the above mentioned incident.

Delaware Thoroughbred Commission

Trainer Jorge Navarro, having appeared for a hearing on Tuesday, July 27, 2012, Mr. Navarro is fined the sum of one thousand five hundred ($1,500.00) dollars for treating the horse, Pot of Gold, in the receiving barn with Lyte Now (Electrolyte Paste) within twenty-four hours prior to the schedule of his race, necessitating a scratch from the 5th race on Thursday, June 28, 2012.
These are mostly trivial issues.

[chadk66]

These are mostly trivial issues.on their own they are. but it lends one to believe that if he's willing to continue to do these things what else does he do that he hasn't been caught at. It causes speculation deserving or not. It's not what the industry needs that's for sure.

[BIG49010]

He did ok at Tampa too, I think his percentages have always been decent, he seems to get bet quite a bit. The horse was live on the board, you had to figure horse was going to run in that last race, and favorite was dropping from sky which is tough to bet at a short price in 5k claimer.

[wiffleball whizz]

There is no sugar coating the issue the guy is a chemist....and I
Love the winning by a pole or 2 analogy I though I heard them all in racing :lol: :lol:

[Stillriledup]

Jorge is a big Yankees fan, no wonder he's a WINNER! :D

http://tampabaydowns.blogspot.com/2012/03/jorge-navarro-trainer-although-he-has.html

[Cannon shell]

on their own they are. but it lends one to believe that if he's willing to continue to do these things what else does he do that he hasn't been caught at. It causes speculation deserving or not. It's not what the industry needs that's for sure.
They really dont prove anything other than he may be a little sloppy. It would be like speculating that a person is a major criminal because he has some speeding and parking tickets, not that he has a job that pays him 45k a year and yet he is living in a 2 million dollar home and driving a 100k car.

I get what you are saying but in this instance and on this board unlike most places in racing people reading this thread are gonna get the truth. These violations are trivial. A minute amount of acepromazine, a bute overage, improperly labeled meds and electrolyte paste are relatively meaningless. Hey if people choose to think this means that they have uncovered the secret, well you can lead a horse to water...

I dont think the guy is legit. The numbers dont add up especially when coupled with the unimpressive manner in which the majority of his horses train in the AM.

[chadk66]

They really dont prove anything other than he may be a little sloppy. It would be like speculating that a person is a major criminal because he has some speeding and parking tickets, not that he has a job that pays him 45k a year and yet he is living in a 2 million dollar home and driving a 100k car.

I get what you are saying but in this instance and on this board unlike most places in racing people reading this thread are gonna get the truth. These violations are trivial. A minute amount of acepromazine, a bute overage, improperly labeled meds and electrolyte paste are relatively meaningless. Hey if people choose to think this means that they have uncovered the secret, well you can lead a horse to water...

I dont think the guy is legit. The numbers dont add up especially when coupled with the unimpressive manner in which the majority of his horses train in the AM.I understand to those of us in the industry it's not a big deal. but to the general public it doesn't look good. now granted the majority of the general public doesn't ever see this. I'm not sure if the word I'd use is sloppy. All the years I trained I had zero infractions of any kind. And the last three years, after finally building up a decent barn, I won at 25-30%. And all my horses ever got were bute and lasix. The rest was hard work and close attention to detail. I never felt compelled to cheat. And why would I, I was winning at a pretty good clip. In money was at least 50%. So it can be done.

[shoelessjoe]

Check out Kirk Zadie 41% winners for the year out of 119 starters

[Robert Goren]

Say what you want, but in this day and age of high % trainers, It is really hard for me to believe that a trainer gets to that high % level from scratch without the help of drugs. Horse racing has turned into the Tour-de-France, they all cheat. I see no reason to believe otherwise. The stakes are too high not to. It is something else as a bettor I have to deal with and I do as best I can. JMO

[chadk66]

Say what you want, but in this day and age of high % trainers, It is really hard for me to believe that a trainer gets to that high % level from scratch without the help of drugs. Horse racing has turned into the Tour-de-France, they all cheat. I see no reason to believe otherwise. The stakes are too high not to. It is something else as a bettor I have to deal with and I do as best I can. JMOBack twenty years ago you didn't see really high win percentages like you see now days. look at that however you wish.

[BIG49010]

Back twenty years ago you didn't see really high win percentages like you see now days. look at that however you wish.

I think you have seen them for a long time, the balanced attack of your top 20% at every track, have been using vet science to the max for the last 25 years+. The masters are the actual horseman that can combine good vet work, with actual hands on training.

I have heard stories about Spendabuck that he couldn't get out of his stall, and he would see the vet coming and jump up like junkie looking for a fix.

[pondman]

These are mostly trivial issues.

He's only had a tag for 4.5 years. The $1,500 fine is a little unusual for most trainers. Most trainer have the $100 and $500 varieties. His name also comes up on during the shock wave scandal at Tamp.

[BIG49010]

You have another shot with a claim in 1st at MTH, opened at 7/5

[Show Me the Wire]

Say what you want, but in this day and age of high % trainers, It is really hard for me to believe that a trainer gets to that high % level from scratch without the help of drugs. Horse racing has turned into the Tour-de-France, they all cheat. I see no reason to believe otherwise. The stakes are too high not to. It is something else as a bettor I have to deal with and I do as best I can. JMO


They all don't cheat it is too expensive for some barns.

[Cannon shell]

He's only had a tag for 4.5 years. The $1,500 fine is a little unusual for most trainers. Most trainer have the $100 and $500 varieties. His name also comes up on during the shock wave scandal at Tamp.
True but the items presented arent really big deals. The $1500 fine is way above and beyond the "crime" committed. Of course perhaps he had been warned before or there were other circumstances that we don't know about but administering an over the counter electrolyte paste hardly warrants that kind of fine.

I'm not implying that the guy is clean or is on the up and up because the truth is I dont believe that to be true. However the 4 items that were presented pretty much have little to do with his miracle working.

[GMB@BP]

I was looking at some races yesterday and saw a race with a -30 pace, meaning that basically the horses absolutely walked on the lead, like 6F race with a half in 49, yet some horse made up 7 lengths in the final furlong as the third choice with little form...

horse was first off the claim by Navarro with little form........never seen that before but it was absolutely suspicious.

[BIG49010]

Another chance in 8th at Mth, 2nd off claim, switch back to grass

[castaway01]

He did ok at Tampa too, I think his percentages have always been decent, he seems to get bet quite a bit. The horse was live on the board, you had to figure horse was going to run in that last race, and favorite was dropping from sky which is tough to bet at a short price in 5k claimer.

Navarro's winning percentages:

2009: 13%
2010: 17%
2011: 21%
2012: 26%
2013: 36%

Seems to be learning fast. Sure it's just hat, oats, and water and claiming only from weak barns.

[BIG49010]

Navarro's winning percentages:

2009: 13%
2010: 17%
2011: 21%
2012: 26%
2013: 36%

Seems to be learning fast. Sure it's just hat, oats, and water and claiming only from weak barns.

I think his stock is improving and the competition at Tampa and Monmouth is in decline. This factors into his move up in percentage, I really don't consider him a "super trainer" like a Moya or Ness. You never know though, I thought Marcus Vitali would do much better at MTH, and for the most part he has been a failure.

[speed]

I think his stock is improving and the competition at Tampa and Monmouth is in decline. This factors into his move up in percentage, I really don't consider him a "super trainer" like a Moya or Ness. You never know though, I thought Marcus Vitali would do much better at MTH, and for the most part he has been a failure.
It's not just the winning % but the dramatic forward moves so many of his claims have been making.

[Cannon shell]

It's not just the winning % but the dramatic forward moves so many of his claims have been making.
The biggest difference when guys go juice is the huge % of on the board finishes that become wins.

2010 143 - 25-30-22
2013 176 - 63-37-26

Look at Ness
2002 180 24-27-25
2003 182 30-19-33
2004 287 34-45-45
2005 274 42-32-44
2006 431 65-43-49

Then magic
2007 454-132-85-65
2008 555-153-98-83
2009 786-258-143-114

Those horses that used to hit the board and run 3rd were now winning.

[chadk66]

The biggest difference when guys go juice is the huge % of on the board finishes that become wins.

2010 143 - 25-30-22
2013 176 - 63-37-26

Look at Ness
2002 180 24-27-25
2003 182 30-19-33
2004 287 34-45-45
2005 274 42-32-44
2006 431 65-43-49

Then magic
2007 454-132-85-65
2008 555-153-98-83
2009 786-258-143-114

Those horses that used to hit the board and run 3rd were now winning.when Ness trained in MN the word around the barn area was he was def. helping them out considerably. And your stats above certainly point in that direction. And somebody posted his rap sheet a few months back and I believe it was quite long. In regards to Navarro, his stats make sense. When you first start out you don't have the stock. It takes a few years to build up the barn. His stats indicate exactly that.

[cj]

when Ness trained in MN the word around the barn area was he was def. helping them out considerably. And your stats above certainly point in that direction. And somebody posted his rap sheet a few months back and I believe it was quite long. In regards to Navarro, his stats make sense. When you first start out you don't have the stock. It takes a few years to build up the barn. His stats indicate exactly that.


You need to take a look at the PPs of some of his winners.

[chadk66]

You need to take a look at the PPs of some of his winners.I'd love to look at that but I don't have access to that.

[Light]

Does anyone understand the way this guy operates when he claims horses? For example, the winner of the 10th @Mth on 7/26 was J.B's UNC $11.20. In the form it looks like Navarro claimed it. But if you look at the chart on the day the horse was claimed on May 25th @CD it says "J.B's UNC was claimed by Gramm Marshal K.trainer, Newton Troy. Troy is a trainer based @Mnr. Horse never races until it shows up in Navarro's barn and wins.This is just one example of similar scenarios I've seen with him.

If these are private sales to Navarro, I would expect to see the statement, "Previously trained by..." But the form never makes mention of these middle men. Not only do the trainers change but the owners change as well. I see this a lot with Navarro. The only explanation I can come up with is this guy has a lot of people working for him which would include other trainers,and/or owners. Makes me wonder how big an outfit this guy has while he flies under the radar.

[Robert Goren]

Does anyone understand the way this guy operates when he claims horses? For example, the winner of the 10th @Mth on 7/26 was J.B's UNC $11.20. In the form it looks like Navarro claimed it. But if you look at the chart on the day the horse was claimed on May 25th @CD it says "J.B's UNC was claimed by Gramm Marshal K.trainer, Newton Troy. Troy is a trainer based @Mnr. Horse never races until it shows up in Navarro's barn and wins.This is just one example of similar scenarios I've seen with him.

If these are private sales to Navarro, I would expect to see the statement, "Previously trained by..." But the form never makes mention of these middle men. Not only do the trainers change but the owners change as well. I see this a lot with Navarro. The only explanation I can come up with is this guy has a lot of people working for him which would include other trainers,and/or owners. Makes me wonder how big an outfit this guy has while he flies under the radar.I wonder how often this happens. I ran across it once when I was researching a NY-GP based trainer for something else. I passed over it and let it go. With your post, I wondering if it would not be worth looking at in more depth. It is certain off the public radar.

[Rise Over Run]

Let's see if someone can connect the dots......

Marshall K. Graham runs High Point Thoroughbred Partners, so there is really no change in ownership of J B's UNC. He claimed the horse as an individual and then moved him into the partnership. Based on the Equibase owner database they have only run in 2013 with a record of 33-15-13 from 84 starters. 39% winners and 73% ITM. These guys are good.

Marshall K. Graham ran a string of horses at Parx which were trained by Juan Carlos Guerrero. Per Equibase, they were also partners on 22 starters in 2011 and 2012:

http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=People&searchType=O&eID=1859720

A record of 7-3-6 from those 22 starters; 32% win and 73% ITM.

In addition to Navarro, HPTP uses Scott Lake and Michael Pino; which each have entrants at Parx today in the 2nd and 8th.

I'm wondering if there is any connection between JC Guerrero and Navarro? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Cannon shell]

Let's see if someone can connect the dots......

Marshall K. Graham runs High Point Thoroughbred Partners, so there is really no change in ownership of J B's UNC. He claimed the horse as an individual and then moved him into the partnership. Based on the Equibase owner database they have only run in 2013 with a record of 33-15-13 from 84 starters. 39% winners and 73% ITM. These guys are good.

Marshall K. Graham ran a string of horses at Parx which were trained by Juan Carlos Guerrero. Per Equibase, they were also partners on 22 starters in 2011 and 2012:

http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=People&searchType=O&eID=1859720

A record of 7-3-6 from those 22 starters; 32% win and 73% ITM.

In addition to Navarro, HPTP uses Scott Lake and Michael Pino; which each have entrants at Parx today in the 2nd and 8th.

I'm wondering if there is any connection between JC Guerrero and Navarro? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Yeah Marshall Graham

[Rise Over Run]

Let's see if someone can connect the dots......

Marshall K. Graham runs High Point Thoroughbred Partners, so there is really no change in ownership of J B's UNC. He claimed the horse as an individual and then moved him into the partnership. Based on the Equibase owner database they have only run in 2013 with a record of 33-15-13 from 84 starters. 39% winners and 73% ITM. These guys are good.

Marshall K. Graham ran a string of horses at Parx which were trained by Juan Carlos Guerrero. Per Equibase, they were also partners on 22 starters in 2011 and 2012:

http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=People&searchType=O&eID=1859720

A record of 7-3-6 from those 22 starters; 32% win and 73% ITM.

In addition to Navarro, HPTP uses Scott Lake and Michael Pino; which each have entrants at Parx today in the 2nd and 8th.

I'm wondering if there is any connection between JC Guerrero and Navarro? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Sorry, last name is actually spelled Gramm.

[castaway01]

Mr. Rise over Run, you sir have just connected the dots. Nice work. Fellow South Jersey guy, no surprise you're a sharp one.

By the way, it doesn't matter exactly what the horses are or are not getting. If you're betting on races where guys like Navarro are winning 50% off the claim, you need to have your eyes open.

[John Barile]

He's got some pretty impressive numbers....I'll give u that:

61% ITM (226-372) in Tampa at the last 5 meetings.....

[The Bit]

All of the sudden, almost as if he read this thread, he is 1 for his last 10. With only 4 of 10 on the board.

[therussmeister]

All of the sudden, almost as if he read this thread, he is 1 for his last 10. With only 4 of 10 on the board.
Trainers have every right to be as streaky as bettors. Indeed, I have a hypothesis which I haven't even tried to test yet, that the best way to identify cheating trainers is they would not have the usual and expected cold streaks.

[Stillriledup]

Take a look at the PPs for Evolution Rocks at Monmouth in Tomorrow's 9th.

:eek:

[Stillriledup]

They're writing songs about this guy now.

Better than Woody, Better than Charlie, better than everyone, everyone i ever met.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmTZj0emGHw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC5E8ie2pdM

[Stillriledup]

They're writing songs about this guy now.

Better than Woody, Better than Charlie, better than everyone, everyone i ever met.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmTZj0emGHw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC5E8ie2pdM

Sorry for posting vids with ads at the beginning, these links didnt have ads when i originally clicked on them......they're getting sneakier and sneakier.

[PaceAdvantage]

Sorry for posting vids with ads at the beginning, these links didnt have ads when i originally clicked on them......they're getting sneakier and sneakier.Can't be helped when it comes to YouTube...no big deal...

[Stillriledup]

Can't be helped when it comes to YouTube...no big deal...
There are still some videos on the tube that are commercial free, but they're getting harder and harder to find.

Someone who can invent a product that could be installed to skip over those commercials and go right to the video will make a lot of money i would imagine.

[Dale Gribble]

Not detectable under current drug testing procedures.

THE GIST
Cone snail venom is inspiring a new generation of painkillers.

The newest drug is 100 times more potent than existing pain medications.

It also works at much lower doses and without risk of addiction.

Snail venom in a pill could offer powerful relief for people who suffer from severe and chronic pain.

http://news.discovery.com/human/snail-venom-painkiller.htm

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/the-venom-cure/cone-shell-cures/2061/

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120404102309.htm

So, if a guy gets caught every once in a while doing something that is questionable, I.E. medicating to close to a race, or using a testable prohibited substance, it just throws the authorities off of what's really going on.

[Stillriledup]

Check out the PPs of Crazy About Me in the 9th today at Monmouth.

Beyers before Navarro: 71, 23, 41, 55, 49, 39, 34, 13.

Beyers after Navarro (Or, AN): 88, 89 and 95. All 3 easy wins where she was strangled and could have went 5 to 10 points faster if she had to.

[cj]

He'll be winning Breeder's Cup and Triple Crown races any time now, like all the other 35% alchemists around the country.

[Stillriledup]

He'll be winning Breeder's Cup and Triple Crown races any time now, like all the other 35% alchemists around the country.

Where's the International Spy Agency when you need them!! Oh, forgot, they're too busy listening to mom and pop's phone calls in rural america to notice.

[ClaimingStud]

If you take a look at this claim (which I look at pps daily to claim) this jump up isn't "juice". This filly is obviously a nice sprinter. Her previous connections couldn't figure this out. Notice how she moved up at cdowns for her previous connections once they went from 2 turns to 1?? What about the fact that ap indy's are late developing ( dam is an ap Indy mare). Did u notice the second dam is the mother of a derby winner??? This filly was meant to be good they just didn't know what to do with her.

Look I'm as skeptical as anyone about Navarro and high % trainers but sometimes u have to tip ure cap. U also should realize he trains for one of the sharper claiming outfits out there. They have deeper pockets than the rest of the owners at mth and parx. It is easier to win when u aren't scared to get claimed. Trust me as a claiming owner that is the key to success.

[outofthebox]

Navarro has nothing on Kevin Patterson! In Pattersons first 223 starters he won 13 races for a wopping 5%. He laid low for a couple of years and now he has won 115 races from 312 starters for a 36% wi pct. Wonder what he could have learned off the layoff. What is it about the mid-atlantic region that spawns these super trainers?

[Stillriledup]

If you take a look at this claim (which I look at pps daily to claim) this jump up isn't "juice". This filly is obviously a nice sprinter. Her previous connections couldn't figure this out. Notice how she moved up at cdowns for her previous connections once they went from 2 turns to 1?? What about the fact that ap indy's are late developing ( dam is an ap Indy mare). Did u notice the second dam is the mother of a derby winner??? This filly was meant to be good they just didn't know what to do with her.

Look I'm as skeptical as anyone about Navarro and high % trainers but sometimes u have to tip ure cap. U also should realize he trains for one of the sharper claiming outfits out there. They have deeper pockets than the rest of the owners at mth and parx. It is easier to win when u aren't scared to get claimed. Trust me as a claiming owner that is the key to success.

You don't sound as skeptical as "anyone".

[ClaimingStud]

Guess ure an expert; sorry i shud bow to u your genius. You don't know me from Adam but I know my way around the claiming barns. I'll give u one piece of knowledge, the juice works on back class horses. That is where u see the form reversals. Young sound horses don't benefit bc they don't have the aches and pains. Don't u wonder why moya, Guerrero and ness arent winning the derby???? If juice worked on young horses they would be on the trail. It doesn't and only works on horses that have been beat up.

I was just commenting bc the one example U gave was garbage bc u didn't do your homework. If u know that barn at all there are several other examples u could have given. I like for people to be skeptical but don't like lazy examples.

That filly crazyaboutme is the real deal. I watch her train every morning. Freak

[Stillriledup]

Guess ure an expert; sorry i shud bow to u your genius. You don't know me from Adam but I know my way around the claiming barns. I'll give u one piece of knowledge, the juice works on back class horses. That is where u see the form reversals. Young sound horses don't benefit bc they don't have the aches and pains. Don't u wonder why moya, Guerrero and ness arent winning the derby???? If juice worked on young horses they would be on the trail. It doesn't and only works on horses that have been beat up.

I was just commenting bc the one example U gave was garbage bc u didn't do your homework. If u know that barn at all there are several other examples u could have given. I like for people to be skeptical but don't like lazy examples.

That filly crazyaboutme is the real deal. I watch her train every morning. Freak

First of all, where did i say i was an expert? I just made a comment that you didnt sound as skeptical as the rest of us, which is true, i didnt say anything that was untrue and you went and got all sensitive on us and started hurling attitude at me. I don't normally respond to people with 2 posts until they can establish that they're more that an ordinary troll, but i respect what you have to say, so i'll bite and comment.

"Certain Trainers" would win the derby if the Derby was a "Free for all" but since its not, it takes an actual horsemen to win that race because you actually have to run a clean horse there.

You are making my point for me, you are defending the these guys like you are related to them, my original point was that you arent as skeptical as the rest of us, which you took exception to and here you are, defending their "honor" pretty hard, your passionate reply is trying to convince me that these guys are clean and its "great horsemanship", i'm just not sure why you got irritated when i suggested that you arent as skeptical as the rest.

[Stillriledup]

Check out the PPs of Crazy About Me in the 9th today at Monmouth.

Beyers before Navarro: 71, 23, 41, 55, 49, 39, 34, 13.

Beyers after Navarro (Or, AN): 88, 89 and 95. All 3 easy wins where she was strangled and could have went 5 to 10 points faster if she had to.

JBs Unc entered and scratched in the 9th at Monmouth today.

Beyers Before Navarro: 56, 58, 66, 64, 61

Beyers after Navarro (or, AN): 86, 87, 91 (all large margin winners, could probably have gone faster if jock asked the horse to run)

[cj]

Paulick tweeting about this guy and infractions withheld from the public in Florida. This should be interesting.

[Stillriledup]

Paulick tweeting about this guy and infractions withheld from the public in Florida. This should be interesting.

This horse i talked about in the post above this, JBs Unc won today at Parx with a "mystery" trainer change, which was odd, why would you change trainers when you have the greatest trainer known to man?

Yes, its going to get interesting. Just keep winning Navarro, just keep winning and running up the score.

[ClaimingStud]

Stillriled up u finally found the horse I was eluding to. Word on the backside is Navarro had a bute overage at Tampa and is serving days.

[PICSIX]

Paulick tweeting about this guy and infractions withheld from the public in Florida. This should be interesting.

Maybe something will finally be done with this huge problem in Florida. Another trainer down there is rumored to have over 40 positives (withheld from the public). I have noticed that a few trainers are now claiming off this super-trainer & doing well, increasing their win percentages? Seems the cat is out of the bag....if you can't beat em, join em?

Just saying....take a look at how many 25-30%+ trainers there are in Florida currently. Maybe 25% is the new 10% :confused:

[cj]

Maybe something will finally be done with this huge problem in Florida. Another trainer down there is rumored to have over 40 positives (withheld from the public). I have noticed that a few trainers are now claiming off this super-trainer & doing well, increasing their win percentages? Seems the cat is out of the bag....if you can't beat em, join em?

Just saying....take a look at how many 25-30%+ trainers there are in Florida currently. Maybe 25% is the new 10% :confused:

Sounds just like Monmouth.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Paulick tweeting about this guy and infractions withheld from the public in Florida. This should be interesting.

Here's Uncle Ray's story. Another good read and just the right amount of indignation.

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/navarro-suspension-lets-make-a-deal/

[cj]

This kind of stuff will bring in new customers in droves.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Here's Uncle Ray's story. Another good read and just the right amount of indignation.

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/navarro-suspension-lets-make-a-deal/


Just so you all know..Banamine is a 48 hour drug here in the state of florida,This year they lowered the threshold on this drug as they did with bute.,Therefore the vet giving this drug must make concessions to the time given if given the full dose. If the vet doing the injections is giving them late then you are going to have a positive. This is still no excuse for the number of banimine positives this trainer has had.After the first one you would think the both of them smartened up and went over the proper times to administer this drug.60 days may make this trainer abide by the rules.Im wondering if the vet involved got any fine or suspension for this?..If not he will keep doing it

[maclr11]

Its hard to blame the trainer when he didn't know he had one positive when he got the rest of them. He had not been informed until all his positives came back. He was giving it in a paste form and training and racing on it. If he had known it was a positive im sure he would have adjusted his program.
These guys aren't idiots.

[Brogan]

These guys aren't idiots.
Far from it...had he known the state was actually going to enforce their regulations, he wouldn't have so blatantly cheated.

[maclr11]

Its a banamine paste
I wouldn't exactly call him a crook
It's something that a lot of horses trains on and he didn't hit the changed withdrawals or whatever
He wouldn't keep doing it if he knew he was gonna get in shit for it
The benefits of it are not worth the suspension

[Stillriledup]

Its hard to blame the trainer when he didn't know he had one positive when he got the rest of them. He had not been informed until all his positives came back. He was giving it in a paste form and training and racing on it. If he had known it was a positive im sure he would have adjusted his program.
These guys aren't idiots.

Adjusted his program to make his horses run slower?

[Stillriledup]

Its a banamine paste
I wouldn't exactly call him a crook
It's something that a lot of horses trains on and he didn't hit the changed withdrawals or whatever
He wouldn't keep doing it if he knew he was gonna get in shit for it
The benefits of it are not worth the suspension

The benefits are totally worth the suspension, the benefits are piles of cash that you don't have to give back once you have them. Suspensions are fake, trainers don't lose clients (especially trainers who win a gazillion races), trainers dont lose money because the owner's "day rate" doesnt go lower, the guy lays on the beach drinking pina coladas and trains from the cellphone while admiring the extra 0s in his bank account, a suspension essentially lets a trainer take some time off while losing no clients and no money.

[PICSIX]

Its a banamine paste
I wouldn't exactly call him a crook
It's something that a lot of horses trains on and he didn't hit the changed withdrawals or whatever
He wouldn't keep doing it if he knew he was gonna get in shit for it
The benefits of it are not worth the suspension

You don't think R. Dutrow Jr. thought he was gonna get in shit for it??

Trust me, this trainer is using more then banamine paste!

[maclr11]

I never said he wasn't using more serious stuff
And consider for a second what Banamine or Flunixin does, it wont move a horse up very much
It is a legal pre-race in most jurisdictions at the correct levels.
He would have moved it back out a few hours like he obviously has to avoid the fines and the suspensions. Trainers don't like their name in the mud like anyone else. He hasn't got caught lately so obviously hes changed his system.

Dutrow was a totally different case
Everyone jumps to accuse trainers of being cheats, using legal therpautic medications is just being sloppy not cheating. It means that the jurisdiction changed the test, or the trainer changed brands and it takes adjusting to new products and all sorts of new things.

His horses aren't winning because he is using banamine paste or flunixin or anything of that sort.

[VeryOldMan]

I never said he wasn't using more serious stuff
And consider for a second what Banamine or Flunixin does, it wont move a horse up very much
It is a legal pre-race in most jurisdictions at the correct levels.
He would have moved it back out a few hours like he obviously has to avoid the fines and the suspensions. Trainers don't like their name in the mud like anyone else. He hasn't got caught lately so obviously hes changed his system.

Dutrow was a totally different case
Everyone jumps to accuse trainers of being cheats, using legal therpautic medications is just being sloppy not cheating. It means that the jurisdiction changed the test, or the trainer changed brands and it takes adjusting to new products and all sorts of new things.

His horses aren't winning because he is using banamine paste or flunixin or anything of that sort.

Nice post.

To the extent that people on this board are willing to listen, there is an(other?) active trainer (C_S) posting similar observations. Slight overages of otherwise permitted drugs aren't the same as profoundly illegal drugs/practices. My view is that we should start with the latter. The sport has shown little interest in zealously attacking illegal drugs/practices; as a bettor I'd rather know about joints being tapped/injected, illegal drugs, etc. rather than a slight overage of an otherwise legal drug. Just saying.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Just so you all know..Banamine is a 48 hour drug here in the state of florida,This year they lowered the threshold on this drug as they did with bute.,Therefore the vet giving this drug must make concessions to the time given if given the full dose. If the vet doing the injections is giving them late then you are going to have a positive. This is still no excuse for the number of banimine positives this trainer has had.After the first one you would think the both of them smartened up and went over the proper times to administer this drug.60 days may make this trainer abide by the rules.Im wondering if the vet involved got any fine or suspension for this?..If not he will keep doing it

Yeah, I'm mostly with the group here (unpopular as it may be) that isn't about to go apeshit over banamine positives - especially in bulk. What I actually liked about the article I linked - I probably should have made it clear - was taking the department to task for the way that they handled the ruling and the suspension. I don't know the specifics and can only base my opinion on what is written there, but I've seen enough of those "convenient suspensions" that I like to see them badmouthed publicly a bit. That drives me nuts.

[cj]

Yeah, I'm mostly with the group here (unpopular as it may be) that isn't about to go apeshit over banamine positives - especially in bulk. What I actually liked about the article I linked - I probably should have made it clear - was taking the department to task for the way that they handled the ruling and the suspension. I don't know the specifics and can only base my opinion on what is written there, but I've seen enough of those "convenient suspensions" that I like to see them badmouthed publicly a bit. That drives me nuts.

I agree, the way it was handled is what is ridiculous and I think the point of the article. What has this guy ever done to deserve special treatment? I have socks older than the time he has been a trainer.

[Stillriledup]

I agree, the way it was handled is what is ridiculous and I think the point of the article. What has this guy ever done to deserve special treatment? If have socks older than the time he has been a trainer.

Maybe the guy was betting on runners he knew would would be "live", it was a piece of info he had that the general public didnt know about.

[ten2oneormore]

K Ziadie clicking at 70% Win and 85% W/P through 20 starters to start fall at Calder.I'm sure he'll come back down to around a still ridiculous 45%.

Pretty crazy only 2 years removed from being suspended 2 years.

I think it says a lot that either he is confident whatever he is doing can't be detected or he just isn't worried about the consequences.

[TheEdge07]

Tampa Bay Downs: Navarro barred for 2013-14 meet (http://www.drf.com/news/tampa-bay-downs-navarro-barred-2013-14-meet)


WTF what about Jamie Ness?

[Beachbabe]

Tampa Bay Downs: Navarro barred for 2013-14 meet (http://www.drf.com/news/tampa-bay-downs-navarro-barred-2013-14-meet)


WTF what about Jamie Ness?

So he'll turn his horses over to some other unknown guy with a trainer's license who will be tethered to Navarro by cell phone........and that guy will win at a 40% rate.

Jamie Ness will probably return to Tampa since no other track has been able to move on him for whatever reason.

[cj]

Yeah, I'm mostly with the group here (unpopular as it may be) that isn't about to go apeshit over banamine positives - especially in bulk.

Does this change your mind:

Paulick Report on Navarro (http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/navarros-tampa-bay-drug-violations-up-to-300-times-over-permitted-level/)

Over 300 times the legal limit?

Check out how the horses have done since. Still think Banamine positives are no big deal?

For those that think it was just a mistake, that seems unlikely now.

Like I saw Cannon Shell mention on another board, Al Capone wasn't just a tax cheat.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Does this change your mind:

Paulick Report on Navarro (http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/navarros-tampa-bay-drug-violations-up-to-300-times-over-permitted-level/)

Over 300 times the legal limit?

Check out how the horses have done since. Still think Banamine positives are no big deal?

For those that think it was just a mistake, that seems unlikely now.

Like I saw Cannon Shell mention on another board, Al Capone wasn't just a tax cheat.

I read that yesterday and can't even guess what the idea was there. I know the guy is claiming that he used a compounder's banamine and supposedly got a bad batch. Somehow I doubt that. He must have given it practically on the way to the paddock to get a test that high. I just don't comprehend why anyone would knowingly give something like banamine that close knowing that you would get nailed for it. He doesn't care? He didn't think they were testing at all? His grooms thought they were giving Bc2A or some sort of electrolyte/enzyme/lactanase type paste and gave banamine instead? I don't get it at all... there's no way he gave 3000 ccs of banamine at the usual time and can't believe that a compounder concentrated the active at that sort of ridiculous ratio and he actually gave it 24 hours out... I'd love to know how they messed that one up so badly.

[CryingForTheHorses]

:blush: Does this change your mind:

Paulick Report on Navarro (http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/navarros-tampa-bay-drug-violations-up-to-300-times-over-permitted-level/)

Over 300 times the legal limit?

Check out how the horses have done since. Still think Banamine positives are no big deal?

For those that think it was just a mistake, that seems unlikely now.

Like I saw Cannon Shell mention on another board, Al Capone wasn't just a tax cheat.


:blush: Embarrassed for us true horseman

[RXB]

:blush:


:blush: Embarrassed for us true horseman

For what it's worth, many of us do appreciate the people in the sport who play it clean.

There was a time when I used the terms "good trainer" and "bad trainer" interchangeably with "high-percentage trainer" and "low-percentage trainer" but not anymore.

[Stillriledup]

:blush:


:blush: Embarrassed for us true horseman

I feel terrible for you and others who have put their life into this game and they have to deal with this type of criminal activity and nonsense. Its really a shame that in 2013 we can't get rid of the cheats.

[chadk66]

I would think this could be an animal cruelty case.

[Rise Over Run]

:blush:


:blush: Embarrassed for us true horseman

No need to apologize for true horseman, as this "gentleman" clearly is not one.

[cj]

Looks like he is back, and 3 for 4 at Gulfstream so far.

[Beachbabe]

Looks like he is back, and 3 for 4 at Gulfstream so far.

Take a look at the feature race today at Gulf. Navarro has a filly he claimed for 15k. The horse's best Beyer under her former trainer was 71. After Navarro took the horse , her next 4 Beyers were 88, 89, 94, 95. This filly has gone from a 15k nw2 to one of the possible favorites in today's grade 3 stake in the short period of 5 races.
:rolleyes:

[lamboguy]

Take a look at the feature race today at Gulf. Navarro has a filly he claimed for 15k. The horse's best Beyer under her former trainer was 71. After Navarro took the horse , her next 4 Beyers were 88, 89, 94, 95. This filly has gone from a 15k nw2 to one of the possible favorites in today's grade 3 stake in the short period of 5 races.
:rolleyes:that type of stuff gets pretty predictable these days, kinda makes for a pretty boring sport.

i am hoping for Hong Kong next month, that game is more about picking horses than trainers and owners.

[Stillriledup]

Looks like he is back, and 3 for 4 at Gulfstream so far.

Um, i disagree. If he was truly back, he would have won all 4. ;)

Only hitting at 75% means he's slipping a bit. Maybe he can get some lessons from Kirk "the horse whisperer" Ziadie.

[BIG49010]

Looking like his magic is working at Gulfstream, in the 4th today the horse was 8/5 when the race went off. His horse popped the gate and was 5 in front and 3/5 by the quarter pole.

[cj]

He is a master of his craft.

[Stillriledup]

He is a master of his craft.

We ought to start a petition to get him elected to the HOF immediately...someone this good shouldnt have to wait.

[PICSIX]

The real question.....why do Gulfstream & Calder allow him to participate at their tracks while he is suspended from the Tampa meet? :confused: :confused:

[Stillriledup]

The real question.....why do Gulfstream & Calder allow him to participate at their tracks while he is suspended from the Tampa meet? :confused: :confused:

Its a great question.

[phattty]

he is not suspended at tampa

he is barred from premises on their perogative

[Stillriledup]

he is not suspended at tampa

he is barred from premises on their perogative

Whether or not its an "official" suspension or just the track saying "cool your heels a bit" shouldnt other tracks honor this suspension, you know, for the good of the sport?

[cj]

Whether or not its an "official" suspension or just the track saying "cool your heels a bit" shouldnt other tracks honor this suspension, you know, for the good of the sport?

These have always been two different things. Official suspensions are honored, being ruled off the grounds is a call made by each track.

[Saratoga_Mike]

These have always been two different things. Official suspensions are honored, being ruled off the grounds is a call made by each track.

This was explained (in detail) to SRU a few months ago.

[Robert Goren]

I have observed the people who win either with horses or in life sweat the smallest detail. When I see someone succeeding who is "sloppy" , I get to wondering what is going on.

[Segwin]

he is not suspended at tampa

he is barred from premises on their perogative

Why is he barred?

[phattty]

They can refuse any person on their opinion

They have done it before

The jocks alleged to be involved in michigan fix are still banned I believe

Ms Cibelli is also persona non grata

[Stillriledup]

Wire Funds coming up in the finale at GP.

They're betting the horse like they have tomorrow's newspaper.

[Midnight Cruiser]

Wire Funds coming up in the finale at GP.

They're betting the horse like they have tomorrow's newspaper.

And he won easy. I used him as a p4 single and the p4 ony pd 105. The pick 5 on the other hand...

[Midnight Cruiser]

How long till this guy gets the boot out of GP? Well, he is a must use until they do, no?

[slihawk]

Ziadie
Ness
Navarro
Cibelli

I have no clue if they are cheating but if they are Ness is the best at it or he"s clean
As for betting them, I single them in all my p3 and p4's I figure if you cant beat them, bet them. And my best are drastically reduced
But I will only bet Pletcher in races too but I don't bet him in Derby and BC and that's a whole other story

I have to say that I would be pissed if I was legit and I had these accusations over my head

[Stillriledup]

Ziadie
Ness
Navarro
Cibelli

I have no clue if they are cheating but if they are Ness is the best at it or he"s clean
As for betting them, I single them in all my p3 and p4's I figure if you cant beat them, bet them. And my best are drastically reduced
But I will only bet Pletcher in races too but I don't bet him in Derby and BC and that's a whole other story

I have to say that I would be pissed if I was legit and I had these accusations over my head

Trainer racing vs Horse racing.

horse racing vs trainer racing.

Hmmmmm *holding my hands out to my sides, palms up, alternating lifting one hand up, while lowering the other hand. Than repeating with opposite hands*

[Beachbabe]

Navarro winning at a "paltry" 41% at Gulfstream with two entered later today. Could push the 50% mark with 2 wins. :rolleyes:

[slihawk]

Exactly I think

[cj]

Was well on the way to a win in the 9th, but the horse went down late while leading in an ugly incident.

[Beachbabe]

Navarro winning at a "paltry" 41% at Gulfstream with two entered later today. Could push the 50% mark with 2 wins. :rolleyes:

Navarro's horse went down in the stretch on the way to what looked like a sure win. Looked like the horse broke down but, then again, could have just taken a bad step. A few riders were thrown pretty hard.

[Beachbabe]

Sounds like riders are ok. Horse was raised to his feet after being down for a long time. Removed in ambulance, supposedly suffering severe injuries. :(

[Si2see]

The horse was literally stuck in the rail and surprisingly he laid completely motionless... When they brought the horse ambulance up and put the curtain up ( usually not a good sign ). The horse popped up to his feet and stood still. I hope they do try to save the horse and retire him, but I wouldn't be shocked if they don't.

[cj]

Perhaps his greatest training feat ever today, and that is saying something!

He got a horse previously trained in its lone outing by Christopher Clemente. The horse finished last of 9, beating 30 lengths that day, in a 60k maiden claimer.

Today, for the Maestro, he ran in a MSW at Calder and won wire to wire, paying 4-1. I'm sure it was just that the horse needed blinkers. Luckily,the public was able to figure out how much better of a trainer Navarro is than Clement. The public is tough.

[Stillriledup]

Perhaps his greatest training feat ever today, and that is saying something!

He got a horse previously trained in its lone outing by Christopher Clemente. The horse finished last of 9, beating 30 lengths that day, in a 60k maiden claimer.

Today, for the Maestro, he ran in a MSW at Calder and won wire to wire, paying 4-1. I'm sure it was just that the horse needed blinkers. Luckily,the public was able to figure out how much better of a trainer Navarro is than Clement. The public is tough.

I think people are starting to realize he's better than anyone, he's simply the best, better than all the rest, better than anyone, anyone i ever met.

Best there's ever been.

[Stillriledup]

"The best there's ever been" enters a horse at the Spa! A welcome edition to the training ranks at America's greatest racetrack!

[cj]

4 for 4 at Monmouth today...The Maestro.

[Stillriledup]

How's "the best there's ever been" Doing these days?

[Stillriledup]

The incomparable.....



The Invincible........



The Unbeatable.......


.....Jorge Navarro? :eek:

[cj]

The incomparable.....



The Invincible........



The Unbeatable.......


.....Jorge Navarro? :eek:

What a mush, you cost him the last race.

[Stillriledup]

What a mush, you cost him the last race.

I saw he was 6-5, i typed that out as they were in the gate, and i hit send at the top of the lane!! :D

You're right, i put the kibosh on him big time!

[Exotic1]

I saw he was 6-5, i typed that out as they were in the gate, and i hit send at the top of the lane!! :D

You're right, i put the kibosh on him big time!

Not a big enough kibosh. I needed the #6 for second but Navarro hung on for that spot.

[Mineshaft]

a trainer from PA actually claimed one from Navarro and the horse hasnt been since and that was 2 months ago.

[Stillriledup]

The games greatest trainer has 0 BC starters?

THATMAKESNOSENSE.

[Stillriledup]

How does El Botas (9th GPW Nov 27) go a 21 44 and hit the board?

I dont understand how this horse can go that fast and not even come close to finishing worse than 3rd.

Anyone?

[magwell]

How does El Botas (9th GPW Nov 27) go a 21 44 and hit the board?

I dont understand how this horse can go that fast and not even come close to finishing worse than 3rd.

Anyone?He just won nice on grass wire to wire today in the 9th at GP ran BIG.......

[Stillriledup]

He just won nice on grass wire to wire today in the 9th at GP ran BIG.......

Greatest horse i've ever seen. No lie.

Better than Secretariat. :D

[Stillriledup]

The greatest horse in the game, El Botas, is racing in the 5th race at Gulfstream on Feb 7th.

Beyers in the Joseph C Catanese III Barn: 63 41 59 45 61

Beyers in the Jorge "The Legend" Navarro barn: 79 81 86 89 92

[Robert Fischer]

I think it was already posted SRU, he plays classical music in the stalls.

[Stillriledup]

I think it was already posted SRU, he plays classical music in the stalls.

You can't make it up. :D

SuRDtBOqpe0

[Robert Fischer]

I keep waiting for him to reach that "too good to be true" level, where he pisses off some owners, and they crack down.
"It's 'obvious'. I made a few bucks, but now everyone can see it, and it's not gonna go on for ever."
It never happens.
He's not just staying in cheap races either.
The last one I bet from his barn was Pirates Vow.
Had to reassure myself, felt like I was taking advantage of something.

[magwell]

Chad and Todd win at 25% last year, Navarro at 28% so he must be up to something ? It sure seems some are implying that in this thread.......

[cj]

Chad and Todd win at 25% last year, Navarro at 28% so he must be up to something ? It sure seems some are implying that in this thread.......

Pretty sure it has to do a lot more with his colossal move ups, but I'm also pretty sure you know that.

[magwell]

Pretty sure it has to do a lot more with his colossal move ups, but I'm also pretty sure you know that. Your right CJ it does look that way, most of his horses come over looking good and improved in the flesh, including the way they are shod. If there is more it will be proven eventually.........

[Saratoga_Mike]

Your right CJ it does look that way, most of his horses come over looking good and improved in the flesh, including the way they are shod. If there is more it will be proven eventually.........

He has a private blacksmith? I assume so ... if others were using the blacksmith, it wouldn't be a factor.

How can you make a judgment how are horse is shod by observing the horse in the paddock anyway?

[ezpace]

Your right CJ it does look that way, most of his horses come over looking good and improved in the flesh, including the way they are shod. If there is more it will be proven eventually.........


write a letter to commission, tell them you
want a copy of all lab reports of the winner
an second place horsès.If they wont deliver badger
the hell out of the lab by mentioning supeonas
for their records

[magwell]

write a letter to commission, tell them you
want a copy of all lab reports of the winner
an second place horsès.If they wont deliver badger
the hell out of the lab by mentioning supeonas
for their recordsYou cant be responding to me as I'm a big Navrrow fan, so you write the letter if you have a problem.......;)

[magwell]

He has a private blacksmith? I assume so ... if others were using the blacksmith, it wouldn't be a factor.

How can you make a judgment how are horse is shod by observing the horse in the paddock anyway?He may have his own blacksmith I'm figuring he does and he does a great job,regarding making a judgment if you been around long enough you can see that......;)

[chadk66]

Your right CJ it does look that way, most of his horses come over looking good and improved in the flesh, including the way they are shod. If there is more it will be proven eventually.........can you elaborate on the "way they are shod" item?

[chadk66]

He has a private blacksmith? I assume so ... if others were using the blacksmith, it wouldn't be a factor.

How can you make a judgment how are horse is shod by observing the horse in the paddock anyway?what's the scuttle butt on the blacksmith thing?

[Saratoga_Mike]

what's the scuttle butt on the blacksmith thing?

1) In the majority of cases, a blacksmith isn't going to improve a horse...unless the former blacksmith was lousy. I know there a lousy blacksmiths, but most are fine.

2) Even if a horse is shod by a better blacksmith, I don't think it's observable in the paddock.

[magwell]

can you elaborate on the "way they are shod" item?Hard to explain, but you know it when you see it, but you being a ex trainer know what I mean I'm sure..........I never said that's why his horses are running so good ........

[chadk66]

Hard to explain, but you know it when you see it, but you being a ex trainer know what I mean I'm sure..........I never said that's why his horses are running so good ........well I know what a horse with proper foot work is but I'm really curious what you see that you think is proper.

[chadk66]

1) In the majority of cases, a blacksmith isn't going to improve a horse...unless the former blacksmith was lousy. I know there a lousy blacksmiths, but most are fine.

2) Even if a horse is shod by a better blacksmith, I don't think it's observable in the paddock.well you would have to know what the horses feet were like prior to the claim and then when it races next. I could get into a very long drawn out discussion regarding feet and shoeing.

[Stillriledup]

Or, you could just assume that in 2015, most trainers are evenly matched on "horsemanship" and the big swings in form is "Something else". Its not like all these claims to Navarro had trainers who never heard of a foot before.

[Stillriledup]

Watch the replay of the horse "No Act" on Jan 16th at Gulf (Race 4). He's wearing the red #1 saddle cloth breaking from post 1.

Keep in mind this is an 8k Claimer.

[chadk66]

Watch the replay of the horse "No Act" on Jan 16th at Gulf (Race 4). He's wearing the red #1 saddle cloth breaking from post 1.

Keep in mind this is an 8k Claimer.don't have equibase so can't watch it. fill me in?

[davew]

don't have equibase so can't watch it. fill me in?

no ADW at all? 5/1 ML closed at 7/5 started 1st quarter about 5 back, going into turn jock was restraining and then let him go third way through turn, jock stayed inside so had to hold him up again until room on rail, at top of stretch passed 2nd and 3rd, veered out into third lane, pssed the leader, accelerated slightly and won by 9 as others tired.

fractions 23.25, 46.86, 1:12.68, 1:24.74 according to screen
claiming $8K purse $18K

[chadk66]

no ADW at all? 5/1 ML closed at 7/5 started 1st quarter about 5 back, going into turn jock was restraining and then let him go third way through turn, jock stayed inside so had to hold him up again until room on rail, at top of stretch passed 2nd and 3rd, veered out into third lane, pssed the leader, accelerated slightly and won by 9 as others tired.

fractions 23.25, 46.86, 1:12.68, 1:24.74 according to screen
claiming $8K purse $18Kdoesn't sound like an 8K horse to me.

[cj]

It was a good race, but nothing all that special to be honest. The margin is enhanced because the pace was much too fast for those horses and the winner had a dream trip behind it.

I'm attaching the TimeformUS chart of the race which also shows the speed figures for that race and the prior two for each horse (you can scroll through the lifetime figures in app) as well as pace figures for the race. The chart is set up to read like a PP line, not like a chart line.

In the chart I can also access future races, and the 2-3-4 finishers have all run back and are 0-4 with only a third place finish since.

[davew]

many tracks have replays on their website
gulfstream has theirs on a youtube channel

here it is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jFiaRymN5s

[davew]

No Act ran again today 4th Gulfstream

ran similar but only 6 furlong race ( $12,500 clm with $23K purse)
and could not catch Jamie Ness' horse so got 2nd

[cj]

5-2 was generous on the winner today.

[Stillriledup]

5-2 was generous on the winner today.

I was amazed the 1 was so bet down, i thought the 4 and 5 were going to be co 8-5 shots, they didnt bet this as if it was a 2 horse race.

[big frank]

5-2 was generous on the winner today. 5/2 was a gift....thought he was bet bet on card

[Stillriledup]

Some guy named Marcial Navarro has become an overnight sensation. Any relation to the Genius?

[PICSIX]

Some guy named Marcial Navarro has become an overnight sensation. Any relation to the Genius?
They are brothers

[Stillriledup]

They are brothers
Thx

[Brogan]

They must share in the old family recipes.

[PICSIX]

At Monmouth he's got entries in damn near every race :ThmbDown:

Navarro J , 1,2,3,4,7,8,9,12

A lot of them are first off the claim which makes capping a lot more difficult :mad:

[lamboguy]

how about a new dimension today, his filly in the first race is real good, she only has to beat Todd's horse that i saw work real fast in the sales, haven't seen her lately though. a friend of mine watched her when she galloped over the track this morning and she looks good, but i am staying with Navarro horse.

[Stillriledup]

The 'genius' strikes in a grade 1 at the Spaaaaaah.

[Irish Boy]

The 'genius' strikes in a grade 1 at the Spaaaaaah.
This your first time watching Private Zone?

[Stillriledup]

This your first time watching Private Zone?

No, how about you?

[cj]

"Navarro off" horse goes off at 3-5, wins pretty easily in the 2nd at Gulfstream.

[Stillriledup]

"Navarro off" horse goes off at 3-5, wins pretty easily in the 2nd at Gulfstream.

Jorge is a Yankees fan. Caton giggling like a schoolgirl while having the honor to interview 'the legend' today on tvg.

[Kash$]

Jorge is a Yankees fan. Caton giggling like a schoolgirl while having the honor to interview 'the legend' today on tvg.

Take a look at Defer Heaven 10th on Saturday a horse JN claimed for 16,000. Before claim average beyer mid 70s after claim mid 90's.. :)

[Stillriledup]

Take a look at Defer Heaven 10th on Saturday a horse JN claimed for 16,000. Before claim average beyer mid 70s after claim mid 90's.. :)
Seems Like most of his transactions move up 20 or 30 Beyer pts overnight, not that racings judges are noticing that, all we get is the schoolgirl giggle for our troubles.

[KidCruz]

Seems Like most of his transactions move up 20 or 30 Beyer pts overnight, not that racings judges are noticing that, all we get is the schoolgirl giggle for our troubles.

Something is extra pumped into Defer Heaven. Horse has done more than step up. He's gone from a 10k claimer to arguably the fastest horse on the grounds. It defies logic.

[Stillriledup]

Something is extra pumped into Defer Heaven. Horse has done more than step up. He's gone from a 10k claimer to arguably the fastest horse on the grounds. It defies logic.

History has a way of repeating itself with this guy.
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107530&highlight=Evolution+rocks

[lamboguy]

i understand that Navarro and Rudy Rod will be getting stalls at Parx before Stronach takes over the place.

the 8% trainers will see their numbers decline to under 5% when that happens.

i wonder what kind of effect the takeover at Parx will have on Delaware and Monmouth.

the direction that this game is going today looks like there will just be a few racing company's in business that will have for the most part the same trainers and owner's on their property's. i don't see what good giving out so many stalls to same owner's and trainers will do for the health of the game. it just doesn't bring enough new people to the game by doing it that way.

[Stillriledup]

i understand that Navarro and Rudy Rod will be getting stalls at Parx before Stronach takes over the place.

the 8% trainers will see their numbers decline to under 5% when that happens.

i wonder what kind of effect the takeover at Parx will have on Delaware and Monmouth.

the direction that this game is going today looks like there will just be a few racing company's in business that will have for the most part the same trainers and owner's on their property's. i don't see what good giving out so many stalls to same owner's and trainers will do for the health of the game. it just doesn't bring enough new people to the game by doing it that way.

The more tracks owned by one person the more likely hard ball will be played with 'signal rates'. Not good for the bettor.

[lamboguy]

[QUOTE=Stillriledup]The more tracks owned by one person the more likely Xpressbet will take over PA Bet.

as far as signal rates go i have say that you are right. in the year 2000 the rebate for w=p=s at Gulfsteam, Monmouth, Oaklawn and other places was 9%, today they are all around 7% with the same takeout. in Southern California they raised takeout on gimmick bets but didn't raise the rebates.

[Kash$]

Trainers defying logic,small fields,game is strictly for owners and trainers,and we worry about takeout.

Lowering takeout doesnt attract new fans.

[PaceMasterT]

Trainers defying logic,small fields,game is strictly for owners and trainers,and we worry about takeout.

Lowering takeout doesnt attract new fans.


The "sport of kings" is slowly moving back to the sport of kings. :(

[Stillriledup]

Hat trick for the future hall of famer today at Gulf.

[cj]

Hat trick for the future hall of famer today at Gulf.

His 1st race winner was pretty perplexing. PPs looked so bad he was only bet down to 3 to 1 first time Jorge. Of course with these guys the worse the PPs look the better.

[magwell]

From seeing his horses up close here at GP they all make a real good appearance and they run that way, horses he claims look better than ever once he has them, his horses don't get washed out in the paddock and who ever his blacksmith is does a great job...........:cool:

[cj]

Congrats to Jorge the King for winning a G2 on Derby Day at Churchill with a new acquisition.

[walter blum]

I know, strange first post but this guy is a magician.

[mannyberrios]

Congrats to Jorge the King for winning a G2 on Derby Day at Churchill with a new acquisition.
Horse ran great today

[walter blum]

Guess he was sitting on a good one. Wish the pools were this big at monmouth and gulfstream

[hracingplyr]

just won the 10th at CD at 13-1 (JUICE!!!!!)

[cj]

Greatest trainer in the history of American Turf.

[walter blum]

next year. first off the claim derby winner

[no breathalyzer]

:lol: THE MEDICINE IS STRONG THERE BOY!.... at least i had the sense to back up my best bet of the day with him and bet w/p :7:... i simply cant beat that gas.... i feel cheated

[PaceAdvantage]

I had him in the DerbyWars contest...didn't even look at the trainer, let alone handicap him... :lol:

[cj]

I had him in the DerbyWars contest...didn't even look at the trainer... :lol:

He burned me once, not twice :)

[horses4courses]

What are the odds on a positive test?

[PaceAdvantage]

Zero

[reckless]

What are the odds on a positive test?

An old trainer told me years ago if an outfit was going to 'take a shot' to do so on Derby Day, as anything goes. Taking a 'shot' --as he meant it-- was using something not often used, if you catch my drift.

Nowadays certain trainers take a shot, Every Day, sad to say.

[PaceMasterT]

Zero

Because they aren't on something, or is it something that doesn't get tested? We all "know" this guy isn't on the up and up. He was "denied" stalls at Tampa before. Why do we as betters continue to play this game? Throw pace handicapping out the window when it comes to these super trainers because the faster the pace the better when their horses are on the front end. These super trainers are starting to get bigger balls by the minute and it is starting to creep into the Graded and "Traditional" races. I don't know if the powers that be are going to stand for that, then again I don't know if anyone cares anymore. The money grab in this country has become ridiculous. :eek:

[Stillriledup]

Because they aren't on something, or is it something that doesn't get tested? We all "know" this guy isn't on the up and up. He was "denied" stalls at Tampa before. Why do we as betters continue to play this game? Throw pace handicapping out the window when it comes to these super trainers because the faster the pace the better when their horses are on the front end. These super trainers are starting to get bigger balls by the minute and it is starting to creep into the Graded and "Traditional" races. I don't know if the powers that be are going to stand for that, then again I don't know if anyone cares anymore. The money grab in this country has become ridiculous. :eek:

It's easy money, it's a "loophole" where you can steal money and if you're caught there's zero jail time, no police record, etc.

[appistappis]

I wonder why the other trainers don't take a stand.....scratch every time one of these guys have an entry.

[Stillriledup]

I wonder why the other trainers don't take a stand.....scratch every time one of these guys have an entry.

I agree, if you run against him, you're accepting and condoning it. Just tell the race secretary that if he's in the race, I'm not running.

Good suggestion.

[GMB@BP]

I wont be betting races where he has a horse, might stab on his longshots as well.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Had the runner-ups in both races yesterday in Calculator and Forevamo.:mad:

Not only were these longshots running against the toughest fields they have ever faced, but they ran the best races of their career, running within a half second, and second of track records, while parking these best ever fields faced by daylight.

[horses4courses]

An old trainer told me years ago if an outfit was going to 'take a shot' to do so on Derby Day, as anything goes. Taking a 'shot' --as he meant it-- was using something not often used, if you catch my drift.

Nowadays certain trainers take a shot, Every Day, sad to say.

Agreed.
Where else can you get a decent purse
for a slightly above average horse,
along with large betting pools?

A.C. Avila made a nice score by questionable
means a couple of years back on Derby Day
with the maiden win of Masochism.
The horse was strangled in his first run in
California - Berrio never tried an inch.

Puts the horse into a maiden race on Derby Day
knowing the horse could only lose if he fell down.
Still managed to get 2-1 on their wagers, too.

[Stillriledup]

This 'other' Navarro in the 4th at gulf has a horse first time claim who can barely scrape a 50 beyer and he's getting bet like he can't possibly lose to the second choice who is coming off an easy win w 67 beyer as well as his slowest recent beyer being 55.

:D

And just like clockwork he beat the higher beyered horse easily. (But finished 2nd)

[magwell]

I see a bunch of crybaby's came out ........:rolleyes:

[Lemon Drop Husker]

I see a bunch of crybaby's came out ........:rolleyes:

Far from crying.

More angry at myself for looking squarely at both Navarro horses and being too dumb to not include them on top in exotics wagers yesterday. Cost me a ton of money. When Catalina Red runs lights out against that field, there is simply no excuse for not including Sharp Azteca later on in the card.

[PaceAdvantage]

It's easy money, it's a "loophole" where you can steal money and if you're caught there's zero jail time, no police record, etc.I had one of Navarro's winners in the DerbyWars contest. And I came up with it entirely though ordinary means, meaning I didn't even know Navarro had a horse in the race. Didn't consider him at all...

[Tall One]

Ben Massam ‏@BMassamTDN (https://twitter.com/BMassamTDN) now45 seconds ago (https://twitter.com/BMassamTDN/status/729728242492555264) Red Bank, NJ (https://twitter.com/search?q=place%3A4c68134c8752a7da) Just spoke with Jorge Navarro, who says Sharp Azteca is at @MonmouthPark (https://twitter.com/MonmouthPark) and will target G3 Pegasus 6/19 and Haskell; Preakness not likely.




Ben Massam ‏@BMassamTDN (https://twitter.com/BMassamTDN) now14 seconds ago (https://twitter.com/BMassamTDN/status/729728430594469888) Red Bank, NJ (https://twitter.com/search?q=place%3A4c68134c8752a7da)

Navarro said Catalina Red will likely make next start on Belmont day, either in the Met Mile or Woody Stephens, depending on his training.

[cj]

Ben Massam ‏@BMassamTDN (https://twitter.com/BMassamTDN) now45 seconds ago (https://twitter.com/BMassamTDN/status/729728242492555264) Red Bank, NJ (https://twitter.com/search?q=place%3A4c68134c8752a7da) Just spoke with Jorge Navarro, who says Sharp Azteca is at @MonmouthPark (https://twitter.com/MonmouthPark) and will target G3 Pegasus 6/19 and Haskell; Preakness not likely.




Ben Massam ‏@BMassamTDN (https://twitter.com/BMassamTDN) now14 seconds ago (https://twitter.com/BMassamTDN/status/729728430594469888) Red Bank, NJ (https://twitter.com/search?q=place%3A4c68134c8752a7da)

Navarro said Catalina Red will likely make next start on Belmont day, either in the Met Mile or Woody Stephens, depending on his training.


After that effort I'd be planning for the BC Classic, not the G3 Pegasus. Makes you wonder, where's the ambition?

[Tall One]

After that effort I'd be planning for the BC Classic, not the G3 Pegasus. Makes you wonder, where's the ambition?

Right! :ThmbUp:

Though, Marcus Hersh came back with a Navarro quote saying 60/40 he might go in the Preakness.

[Stillriledup]

I had one of Navarro's winners in the DerbyWars contest. And I came up with it entirely though ordinary means, meaning I didn't even know Navarro had a horse in the race. Didn't consider him at all...
you go ahead and 'not consider' navarro as a factor and i'll keep passing races he's in. to each his own, if that works for you, don't change it.

[Valuist]

I'm kicking myself for not having the Azteca horse, fully aware of Navarro's effect. The horse had just wired a 4 horse field at GP. It wasn't easy to get on board from that. And it looked like the 5 was quicker out of the gate. Navarro trumps all the conventional angles.

[PaceAdvantage]

you go ahead and 'not consider' navarro as a factor and i'll keep passing races he's in. to each his own, if that works for you, don't change it.All I'm saying is, the horse was very gettable under normal handicapping conditions.

[no breathalyzer]

i disagree with that. Forevamo should never lose there closing in to 22. 44. 1.08.. but what ever.. i just tossed in the juice man just in case get got special hay and oats, which he did..

[PaceAdvantage]

I should amend my last reply with "and you're looking for value"

[Tom]

Catalina Red - I had it as a very good pace-play. No idea who the trainer was.
I was looking at the DRF that day, so I used the Beyers and HTR to get him.

[SandyW]

Will be racing at Monmouth this meet with a large stable of 65 horses.

[KidCruz]

All I'm saying is, the horse was very gettable under normal handicapping conditions.

I have to assume you are talking about Sharp Azteca?

If you are telling me you would have landed on Catalina Red in his field if C. Stewart was still the listed trainer, could you enlighten us as to what the angle was? He was impossible to find without the first time Navarro angle.

[PaceAdvantage]

Yup...Sharp Azteca...