View Full Version : goldencents in a 6fur sprint?
precocity
07-26-2013, 09:30 AM
$300,000 Bing Crosby Stakes (gr. I, Race 8, 5:40 p.m.), 3 & Up, 6 Furlongs (All Weather)
PP. Horse, Jockey, Weight, Trainer
1. Coach Bob (CA), M Stortz, 119, R E Gonzalez
2. Goldencents (KY), K Krigger, 119, D F O'Neill
3. Majestic City (KY), D R Flores, 119, R W Ellis
4. Comma to the Top (FL), E A Maldonado, 119, P Miller
5. Jimmy Creed (KY), R Bejarano, 123, R E Mandella
6. Points Offthebench (CA), M E Smith, 119, T Yakteen
Blinkers On: Goldencents
and got blinkers on? thought he should be great at a mile? and krigger still on..wtf. well he has been having bullet workouts. good luck goldencents.
He did break his maiden at 5.5f. Nothing to lose really, he can always stretch back out later, and it is a G1.
precocity
07-26-2013, 10:04 AM
you think he can win this one CJ? just know he can carry his speed at least to a 1/16. and they need to put a real jockey on him like Bejarano!
iceknight
07-26-2013, 10:10 AM
you think he can win this one CJ? just know he can carry his speed at least to a 1/16. and they need to put a real jockey on him like Bejarano! Jimmy Creed is the real competition. But if neither of them get into a speed duel then they can hold on well.. Otherwise Comma to the Top can mow them down? I haven't looked at PPs ..just speculating based on their styles
pondman
07-26-2013, 10:11 AM
He's a speed ball that will take off in the lane. This is a much better spot for this one. Should win in this soft spot. They probably have worked on some of his encroachment problem and therefore the blinkers. They're going to approach fall racing differently, probably keep him short. Not sure of his eligibility for the BC.
precocity
07-26-2013, 10:18 AM
He's a speed ball that will take off in the lane. This is a much better spot for this one. Should win in this soft spot. They probably have worked on some of his encroachment problem and therefore the blinkers. They're going to approach fall racing differently, probably keep him short. Not sure of his eligibility for the BC.
you hit the blinkers spot on, or to stay straight at a short distance. he will never be a artax but I guess doug is going that route.
pondman
07-26-2013, 10:32 AM
you think he can win this one CJ? just know he can carry his speed at least to a 1/16. and they need to put a real jockey on him like Bejarano!
He went on the lead with Palace Malice and Oxbow. They both did a little somthing in their careers. Should tell you something. I've seen Krigger on him in the mornings. He knows the nuances of the horse. Hopefully the crowd will like comma and you can get a little money on him.
precocity
07-26-2013, 10:36 AM
anyone got the odds on this race? :cool:
He romped gate-to-wire at 5.5f in his debut (at Del Mar). His dam was a sprinter, his only sib to race was a sprinter, and his sire made all three of his post-2YO starts at 7f.
The BC Sprint and Mile are both in play; might as well try for a G1 on a track that he's proven to handle and see if 6f is viable against quality company.
Fingal
07-26-2013, 01:47 PM
This will be good for him. There comes a time when reality hits & you realize that certain horses are just sprinters, & as hard as one tries they can't make them be something they aren't.
This will be good for him. There comes a time when reality hits & you realize that certain horses are just sprinters, & as hard as one tries they can't make them be something they aren't.
The horse has won THREE graded races at a route distance, including a G1 win at 9f, but he is a sprinter?
He can mile. Tough to see him winning at 9f or more against top older runners, though. Plenty of young horses with good early speed win significant 8.5f/9f races as 2YO's/early 3YO's but subsequently have difficulty repeating the feats as the off-pace horses that they face are more mature and know their craft a little better.
He was also helped by the track on SA Derby day, which favoured horses pressing the lead a path or two away from the rail.
He can mile. Tough to see him winning at 9f or more against top older runners, though. Plenty of young horses with good early speed win significant 8.5f/9f races as 2YO's/early 3YO's but subsequently have difficulty repeating the feats as the off-pace horses that they face are more mature and know their craft a little better.
He was also helped by the track on SA Derby day, which favoured horses pressing the lead a path or two away from the rail.
I'm not saying he can't be a sprinter, or that he'll beat older horses going long this year. But if he sticks around and matures, no reason he can't be one of those that mature and get better. He hasn't proven to be headstrong or anything.
pondman
07-26-2013, 03:20 PM
The BC Sprint and Mile are both in play; might as well try for a G1 on a track that he's proven to handle and see if 6f is viable against quality company.
He'll have to go shorter for the BC and avoid the big boy-- Orb. Don't think he'd has a chance in the BC Sprint. But this race with a short field with a lot of open lane, he can get this; They can stay outside and away from the rail. Think they'll have him where he need to be at the half, and won't have any problem asking for the finish. He can put up a 1/4 mile against these. Be nice to see a price on him. I'd consider betting him for a price.
He'll have to go shorter for the BC and avoid the big boy-- Orb. Don't think he'll has a chance in the BC Sprint. But this race with a short field with a lot of open lane; Think they have him where he need to be at the half, and won't have any problem being asked for the finish.
Why would anybody go to great lengths to avoid Orb? It's got nothing to do with Orb; it's about Goldencents himself.
cordep17
07-26-2013, 03:30 PM
I don't think anyone has a reason to avoid Orb.
He is a closer and has no bearings on how your front running horse will run.
Make sure your horse comes to play and the rest will work itself out. It isn't like Orb is invincible or anything.
I'm not saying he can't be a sprinter, or that he'll beat older horses going long this year. But if he sticks around and matures, no reason he can't be one of those that mature and get better. He hasn't proven to be headstrong or anything.
I'm fairly confident that he will not do his best racing farther than a mile at the top level from here. We'll see.
pondman
07-26-2013, 03:31 PM
Why would anybody go to great lengths to avoid Orb? It's got nothing to do with Orb; it's about Goldencents himself.
Orb will smoke whatever BC race he is going to run in. They'll stay away from him, and prep for something else. It takes away from their choice of opportunities.
Orb will smoke whatever BC race he is going to run in. They'll stay away from him, and prep for something else.
Filed.
Orb will smoke whatever BC race he is going to run in. They'll stay away from him, and prep for something else.
I've yet to see a single three year old that can touch the older horses, and that includes Orb.
I'm fairly confident that he will not do his best racing farther than a mile at the top level from here. We'll see.
True. But what is there to gain if he turns out to be just a sprinter? He'll wind up at stud next year I would guess rather than spend the year running in sprints.
True. But what is there to gain if he turns out to be just a sprinter? He'll wind up at stud next year I would guess rather than spend the year running in sprints.
Win enough G1's and it will improve his stud value. And I doubt he'll need to be limited to sprints; he's shown he's got miler ability.
His pedigree is not bad but certainly nothing stellar, so whether it's this year or next he needs some serious performance on the track to start out with a significant stud fee.
pondman
07-26-2013, 04:40 PM
I've yet to see a single three year old that can touch the older horses, and that includes Orb.
How about Grandpapa (ORB)?
My point: They'll duck out on Orb in the fall...and a number of these Saratoga 3 year olds. That's why they are prepping for 180k at 3/4. If they are shooting for the BC...
classhandicapper
07-26-2013, 08:01 PM
I've seen him as more of a miler that had enough ability to win at 9F in the right field or on a track that was carrying speed a little. I hated him the Derby at 10F despite the big fig in the SA Derby. I thought that day at SA was the kind of track that helped carry him a little. The Bing Crosby seems like a good spot for a return. He fits well and it should be a useful prep if he's not 100% yet.
classhandicapper
07-26-2013, 08:19 PM
How about Grandpapa (ORB)?
My point: They'll duck out on Orb in the fall...and a number of these Saratoga 3 year olds. That's why they are prepping for 180k at 3/4. If they are shooting for the BC...
I was a HUGE Orb fan in late winter and early spring because I thought the 3yos in Florida were the best group, he seemed to be progressing steadily, and because Shug does not generally rush his horses. So I thought there could easily be upside.
I think he had a partial excuse in the Preakness because the inside paths (plural) were not ideal and he spent some time in there.
I think it's almost impossible to evaluate the Belmont well because too many modern horses don't want 12F. He made a really nice run and hung. So who knows if he didn't want the 12F or just wasn't good enough.
The problem is when you start giving horses multiple "suspect" excuses you sometimes find out that the horse already peaked and is now going backwards.
I also don't think this layoff into the Travers is ideal. He definitely needed a freshening for later in the year, but everyone else is getting a good prep for the Travers. So he's probably at a small disadvantage.
I'm not sure what to do with anymore as far as betting goes. He could easily be better than his last 2 races, but perhaps not. He still has a huge reputation so there's not much value either way.
My 2 cents - we have seen the rise and Fall of Orb.
His 15 minutes are over.
I could be wrong, but......I doubt it.
tanner12oz
07-27-2013, 08:54 AM
What's with the orb love fest? Loved fl..loved derby slop...last time I checked he seemed to be burned out and out of form...maybe something will happen between now and BC but I am off the orb bandwagon and have been since he showed nothing and I mean nothing at pimlico....btw I like comma to the top here and think GC might need one
precocity
07-27-2013, 12:57 PM
the sham was at a mile and goldie smoked that azz, just seems he needs to get that early kick going at 6-fur against older horses.
davew
07-28-2013, 01:12 AM
34 1/5 out of the gate a couple days ago seems like quite a tightener
should be interesting to watch first back from Preakness - I wonder if a bridgejumper will show (it does not seem like a lock to me - 3rd in ML)
pondman
07-28-2013, 10:11 AM
3-1 just isn't enough.
Pass on the race. Could do it. But not with my money on it.
pondman
07-28-2013, 10:22 AM
What's with the orb love fest? one
In November he'll be the one to beat. I throw him out in the Preakness. Now I'm saying I'll bet (Orb) him in Nov-- even if it's the BC Classical. Goldencents should be there but they'll duck Orb, and anything sent by Repole, Darley, and Ramsey. That's why he's sprinting today.
precocity
07-28-2013, 02:56 PM
3-1 just isn't enough.
Pass on the race. Could do it. But not with my money on it.
just watching it a pass for me too unless he goes off at 4-1 or more and i doubt that. I think he will go off at 2-1 or 5-2.
precocity
07-28-2013, 08:32 PM
he looks cool with his blinkers, 7-5 right now-pass.
Speed Figure
07-28-2013, 08:33 PM
Goldencents is really getting bet! not a bad price for Comma To The Top at 4/1!
precocity
07-28-2013, 08:48 PM
dam!!!! good race if goldencents had a real jockey is win for him, but he ran well.
Next stop the King's Bishop?
outofthebox
07-28-2013, 09:22 PM
Next stop the King's Bishop?That's where i would go..I loved his race today other than getting beat on the wire...
davew
07-28-2013, 11:41 PM
$6.60 to show, would have never guessed...
Speed Figure
07-29-2013, 12:13 AM
Somebody made a nice donation with a BIG show bet on Comma To The Top!
plainolebill
07-29-2013, 03:36 AM
dam!!!! good race if goldencents had a real jockey is win for him, but he ran well.
I sure agree with that. Krigger is a stiff - and no, I didn't bet on GC.
precocity
07-29-2013, 09:20 AM
Somebody made a nice donation with a BIG show bet on Comma To The Top!
now i should've bet the race could not believe somebody bridge jumped and lost in that race.
pondman
07-29-2013, 12:40 PM
That's where i would go..I loved his race today other than getting beat on the wire...
He's a horse that just doesn't want to run inside. They've either got to have him in the lane out front, or try and run around them. They'll probably look for these small fields, where they can pick up $50 to $150k. They should be able to pick up another half million over the next year. I don't think they want to go up against some of these younger NY sprinters. It's really deep and talent at Saratoga. He's not quick enough to get to the half, and those last 1/4 moves can really take a lot out of a 3 year old. He can do a 109.06 at Del Mar. But that's not going to be fast enough for the Bishop.
precocity
07-29-2013, 01:59 PM
he is a good horse pondman think the best is still to come from goldencents even though he got 2nd he was right there. but when he made that rush up the middle before the turn their is krigger choking and rating him until he could find a lane and kick clear? to me that jockey has to go! like yesterday!
deathandgravity
07-29-2013, 02:55 PM
dam!!!! good race if goldencents had a real jockey is win for him, but he ran well.
Couldn't agree more! Cost me the P4, oh well
Kevin Krigger... meet Mike Smith... he just schooled your a** today.
Bettowin
07-29-2013, 03:10 PM
Krigger seems to move around in the saddle a lot. Especially at the end of the race when GC was making his run. Looks to me like those Euro riders. I think GC looked great in that race and would have won easy if he were more forwardly placed. I look forward to seeing him in sprints, maybe 7F is his best distance?
precocity
07-29-2013, 07:37 PM
Couldn't agree more! Cost me the P4, oh well
Kevin Krigger... meet Mike Smith... he just schooled your a** today.
dam that sucks!
outofthebox
07-29-2013, 07:52 PM
He's a horse that just doesn't want to run inside. They've either got to have him in the lane out front, or try and run around them. They'll probably look for these small fields, where they can pick up $50 to $150k. They should be able to pick up another half million over the next year. I don't think they want to go up against some of these younger NY sprinters. It's really deep and talent at Saratoga. He's not quick enough to get to the half, and those last 1/4 moves can really take a lot out of a 3 year old. He can do a 109.06 at Del Mar. But that's not going to be fast enough for the Bishop.I agree with you that the NY 3 YO sprinters are a fast group. But they are killing each other off in the races and setting it up for the closers all the time like Forty Tales. The connections have always been an ambitious group, so i'm sure thats where we will see him next..
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