Obama's record vs Bush's record

[newtothegame]

As per Mosty's request, here we go..... A thread where we can compare records and problems with these two presidents. Well mosty, your on deck...tell us one thing bad Bush did and in kind, I will respond with Obama's negative record....
Awaiting...... :lol:

[newtothegame]

P.S. libs feel free to jump in and cons likewise. If youre in neither corner, we would like to hear from you as well......

[JustRalph]

Remember what Kanye said......Bush hated black people

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-06-30/world/40292509_1_michelle-obama-aids-research-bush-aids

This is probably Bushies greatest feat

[NJ Stinks]

Remember what Kanye said......Bush hated black people

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-06-30/world/40292509_1_michelle-obama-aids-research-bush-aids

This is probably Bushies greatest feat

I agree.

[LottaKash]

It's like comparing 2 robotic chimpanzees to each other....Both jerks, and are responsible for the bit by bit dismantling of the Constitution as it was written, as well as the ruination of our Economy....These two duds have done more harm to this nation than any two others as were in their position in our entire nation's history, before them......Amerika is NOT better off as before they came to power, and it has become so much worse as a result of their hands.....No accountability from either of them, just an endless conveyor belt of LIES and FALSE PROMISES, all in the name of Fairness & Terrorism.....Imo..

[newtothegame]

lotta, I agree.
And, I have said numerous times that ALL of the buttheads in washington need to be removed. Its just really tiring to hear how its all Bush's fault all the time when this prsident has now been in office LONGER then one term.
Some here...(mosty in particuliar) can not let it go. Hell, 20 years from now we will still be hearing its bush's fault.

I recall some video, somewhere, where this knucklehead we have in the WH now said the buck stops with him. Yet, at every turn its always someone elses fault.

So, now its time to put up or shut up for those that constantly tout Obama and how he has saved the world.....

Mosty? or any lib for that matter.....take the first crack and point out a Bush mistake and in turn, those on the right are free to point out Obama's.....

[newtothegame]

Here ya go Libs....."the buck stops with me, I'm going to be held accountable"....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUxNn7sSHc8

Laughable :lol:

[thaskalos]

I have always thought that the "president" is just an image on the wall...designed to capture our attention so the REAL men of power can do their work without having to endure public scrutiny. REAL men of power have always been "camera-shy".

The plan is the plan...and it doesn't matter WHO the president is.

Elections are just an invention to keep people occupied, and arguing...forever.

And it's the same in every country...

[mostpost]

As per Mosty's request, here we go..... A thread where we can compare records and problems with these two presidents. Well mosty, your on deck...tell us one thing bad Bush did and in kind, I will respond with Obama's negative record....
Awaiting...... :lol:
I have been out most of the morning and have to go out again. I will respond shortly.

[mostpost]

As per Mosty's request, here we go..... A thread where we can compare records and problems with these two presidents. Well mosty, your on deck...tell us one thing bad Bush did and in kind, I will respond with Obama's negative record....
Awaiting...... :lol:
I'll start with one of the less obvious ones-Medicare Part D. A prescription drug plan for seniors was a good idea, but this plan was bad. First there was the donut hole which required seniors to pay for their medications once they had used a certain portion of their allotment. Then there was the fact that the law forbade Medicare from negotiating for lower prices with the drug companies. The purpose of a drug plan for seniors should be to help the seniors. This plan was more concerned with filling the pockets of the drug companies.

In addition to this the Bush Medicare Part D plan added $300B to the deficit over a period of ten years with no method of offsetting that deficit. What happened to the Republican mantra of no new spending without cuts somewhere else?

Your turn, but don't just post about Obama. I want to hear your explanation of why this was not a bad move on Bush's part.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I'll start with one of the less obvious ones-Medicare Part D. A prescription drug plan for seniors was a good idea, but this plan was bad. First there was the donut hole which required seniors to pay for their medications once they had used a certain portion of their allotment. Then there was the fact that the law forbade Medicare from negotiating for lower prices with the drug companies. The purpose of a drug plan for seniors should be to help the seniors. This plan was more concerned with filling the pockets of the drug companies.

In addition to this the Bush Medicare Part D plan added $300B to the deficit over a period of ten years with no method of offsetting that deficit. What happened to the Republican mantra of no new spending without cuts somewhere else?

Your turn, but don't just post about Obama. I want to hear your explanation of why this was not a bad move on Bush's part.

God forbid the 65+ crowd, the wealthiest segment in our society, has to pony up and cover the donut hole (as you know that's going away under ACA - an enticement to certain pols to ensure passage). I don't think the plan ever should have been put in place, but I agree with you it should have been funded--preferably through cuts!

But as far as govt programs go, it's been ok....actually come in below long-term budget projections --amazing.

Overall, I believe conservatives will agree with you on this one, but not for your reasons.

[Robert Goren]

It is to early to compare them. Bush was looking pretty good 4 1/2 years in. But thing went to hell in a handbasket during his last year as the flaws in his short term feel good policies came to fruition. Lets see what happens Obama's last year before we judge him too harshly. A negative 7% GDP in his last quarter is a high bar for Obama to reach. A president is judged by the shape he left the country in.

[Saratoga_Mike]

It is to early to compare them. Bush was looking pretty good 4 1/2 years in. But thing went to hell in a handbasket during his last year as the flaws in his short term feel good policies came to fruition. Lets see what happens Obama's last year before we judge him too harshly. A negative 7% GDP in his last quarter is a high bar for Obama to reach. A president is judged by the shape he left the country in.

Does he have ownership of the economy yet? YES or NO. You can't have it both ways.

[mostpost]

Does he have ownership of the economy yet? YES or NO. You can't have it both ways.
You can have it both ways, because the economy is not a monolith. But overall I would be willing to say that Obama was responsible for major sectors of the economy by early 2010. So let's look at some sectors of the economy and see how they are faring today compared to January 2010.

In January 2010, unemployment was 9.8%. In June 2013, it is 7.6%. The U6 rate, which takes into account those have stopped looking as dropped from 16.7% to 14.3%.

In January 2010 we lost 13,000 jobs (220,000 in December 2009). Last month we gained 195,000 jobs and have now added jobs for three straight years-actually 36 straight months.

In January 2010 automobiles were being sold at an adjusted annual rate of 3,737,000 vehicles. January 2013 that rate stood at 5,682,000.

The stock market has gone from 10,583 to 15,567.

New housing starts in January 2010 were 614,000. In January 2013 they totaled 898,000.

In every case there has been improvement in the numbers. I don't claim the improvement has been fantastic or that we are back where we were before the Bush Great Recession, but we are making progress and much of our lack of progress can be laid at the door of Congressional Republicans.

[newtothegame]

OK, Mosty. I chose to start with taxes.
This president boldly claimed that if you made less then 250,000 you would not see any new taxes, zero, none. Well, we now all know that isn't the case at all.

You being on the left like the taxes and I understand that. But lets leave the businesses out of this for a minute. On a personal level, taxes are destructive. When you tax an individual more (or a family more), you take from their disposable income. Less disposable income means less spending into the economy.

When you spend less into the economy, it naturally shrinks or contracts ultimately reducing revenue. Revenue reductions means less revenue for the feds which in turns leads more taxation. You get where this is going.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a raise tax kind of guy. But, the LAST people you want to raise taxes on is those that he said he wouldn't...yet, he did!

[mostpost]

OK, Mosty. I chose to start with taxes.
This president boldly claimed that if you made less then 250,000 you would not see any new taxes, zero, none. Well, we now all know that isn't the case at all.

You being on the left like the taxes and I understand that. But lets leave the businesses out of this for a minute. On a personal level, taxes are destructive. When you tax an individual more (or a family more), you take from their disposable income. Less disposable income means less spending into the economy.

When you spend less into the economy, it naturally shrinks or contracts ultimately reducing revenue. Revenue reductions means less revenue for the feds which in turns leads more taxation. You get where this is going.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a raise tax kind of guy. But, the LAST people you want to raise taxes on is those that he said he wouldn't...yet, he did!
Where did he raise taxes on those people. Here are the tax rates from 2012 and 2013 as listed by the Tax Foundation: We'll use "Married Filing jointly.
2013
Nominal
Married Filing Jointly
Marginal Tax Brackets
Tax Rate Over But Not Over
10.0% $0 $17,850
15.0% $17,850 $72,500
25.0% $72,500 $146,400
28.0% $146,400 $223,050
33.0% $223,050 $398,350
35.0% $398,350 $450,000
39.6% $450,000
Note: Last law to change rates was the American Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012.
2012
Nominal
Married Filing Jointly
Marginal Tax Brackets
Tax Rate Over But Not Over
10.0% $0 $17,400
15.0% $17,400 $70,700
25.0% $70,700 $142,700
28.0% $142,700 $217,450
33.0% $217,450 $388,350
35.0% $388,350 -

You used the figure $250,000. In 2012, before the American Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012, the top rate for those earning $250,000 a year was 33%. In 2013, after the American Taxpayer relief act was passed the rate was still 33%. There were minor adjustments in the brackets but those were benficial to the taxpayer. For example, 2012 you entered the 33% bracket if you earned over $217,450. In 2013 you did not enter that bracket until you earned $223,050.

Perhaps you are talking about the payroll tax which increased from 10.4% to 12.4% in 2013. But that is not an increase because the 10.4% rate was always intended as a temporary rate and, in fact was only intended to last through 2011. Instead of complaining that the rate went up to 12.4% in 2013, you should be happy it was lowered for two years.

Obama did not raise that rate, it went up automatically when the law that temporarily lowered the rate sunset.

Now, if you are referring to other taxes I do not know what they are.

Tax info came from here:
http://taxfoundation.org/article/us-federal-individual-income-tax-rates-history-1913-2013-nominal-and-inflation-adjusted-brackets

and here:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=45

[Tom]

Everyone's taxes went up January 1 this year.
Point..NTTG.

Serve: Obama promises we would all be able to keep our own doctor. now, we might be able to.

[newtothegame]

Where did he raise taxes on those people. Here are the tax rates from 2012 and 2013 as listed by the Tax Foundation: We'll use "Married Filing jointly.
2013
Nominal
Married Filing Jointly
Marginal Tax Brackets
Tax Rate Over But Not Over
10.0% $0 $17,850
15.0% $17,850 $72,500
25.0% $72,500 $146,400
28.0% $146,400 $223,050
33.0% $223,050 $398,350
35.0% $398,350 $450,000
39.6% $450,000
Note: Last law to change rates was the American Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012.
2012
Nominal
Married Filing Jointly
Marginal Tax Brackets
Tax Rate Over But Not Over
10.0% $0 $17,400
15.0% $17,400 $70,700
25.0% $70,700 $142,700
28.0% $142,700 $217,450
33.0% $217,450 $388,350
35.0% $388,350 -

You used the figure $250,000. In 2012, before the American Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012, the top rate for those earning $250,000 a year was 33%. In 2013, after the American Taxpayer relief act was passed the rate was still 33%. There were minor adjustments in the brackets but those were benficial to the taxpayer. For example, 2012 you entered the 33% bracket if you earned over $217,450. In 2013 you did not enter that bracket until you earned $223,050.

Perhaps you are talking about the payroll tax which increased from 10.4% to 12.4% in 2013. But that is not an increase because the 10.4% rate was always intended as a temporary rate and, in fact was only intended to last through 2011. Instead of complaining that the rate went up to 12.4% in 2013, you should be happy it was lowered for two years.

Obama did not raise that rate, it went up automatically when the law that temporarily lowered the rate sunset.

Now, if you are referring to other taxes I do not know what they are.

Tax info came from here:
http://taxfoundation.org/article/us-federal-individual-income-tax-rates-history-1913-2013-nominal-and-inflation-adjusted-brackets

and here:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=45

Listen, are you going to continue to blame others or are you going to man up and say this happened under Obama's watch?? I have already pointed you to the video where "the buck stops with him" in his own words.

Taxes went up for EVERYONE .....there was options and the choice was to let the tax cuts expire.......for EVERYONE.....

Your turn......point out another mistake or flaw by Bush.....

[mostpost]

Listen, are you going to continue to blame others or are you going to man up and say this happened under Obama's watch?? I have already pointed you to the video where "the buck stops with him" in his own words.

Taxes went up for EVERYONE .....there was options and the choice was to let the tax cuts expire.......for EVERYONE.....

Your turn......point out another mistake or flaw by Bush.....
We are not done with this one yet. In 2012 top income tax rates for those earning $250,000 were 33%. In 2013 that rate was also 33%. That is zero increase.

The payroll tax rate was 12.4% before the payroll tax holiday and it was 12.4% after the holiday. JC Penney sells men's slacks for $25 normally, then has a weekend sale where they are $20. When the price returns to $25 on Monday is that an increase. It is not because JC Penney will have noted in its ads that the price is good Friday and Saturday only. The same applies to the Payroll tax cut. It was clearly marked as temporary.

[mostpost]

Next George Bush screw up.
Torture. In violation of American and international law, Bush allowed American agents to torture suspected terrorists. This is not only illegal and immoral; it is also ineffective.

I will suggest a book which you will never read. It is titled "The Black Banners: The Inside Story of 9/11 and The War Against Al Qaeda" by Ali Soufan.
Ali Soufan is an FBI agent and interrogator who details how he was able to obtain actionable intelligence from terrorist suspects by using traditional, non violent interrogation techniques. And how his efforts were undermined by contractors using torture.

[newtothegame]

Next George Bush screw up.
Torture. In violation of American and international law, Bush allowed American agents to torture suspected terrorists. This is not only illegal and immoral; it is also ineffective.

I will suggest a book which you will never read. It is titled "The Black Banners: The Inside Story of 9/11 and The War Against Al Qaeda" by Ali Soufan.
Ali Soufan is an FBI agent and interrogator who details how he was able to obtain actionable intelligence from terrorist suspects by using traditional, non violent interrogation techniques. And how his efforts were undermined by contractors using torture.

First off, let me preface this by saying that I am not at all for torture of AMERICAN citizenry. U.S citizens have rights afforded to them by the constitution and other related materials.

But, with that being said, many high level officials have stated that it was waterboarding which led to information that helped us in the war on terror.
Next, if waterboarding and torture are illegal, why would Obama need to institute a policy banning torture in Jan 2009????

Now I do understand that under the Geneva convention, torture is a crime. I guess this would boil down to what constitutes torture. In either case, I am not fond of it as it portrays us in a bad light and shows us speaking from both sides of our proverbial mouth.

[PaceAdvantage]

Remember what Kanye said......Bush hated black people

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-06-30/world/40292509_1_michelle-obama-aids-research-bush-aids

This is probably Bushies greatest featTo be fair, Kanye said Bush doesn't care about black people. He didn't say he hated them...

And I will take any excuse to whip out this unintentionally hilarious video...the single greatest moment on live TV ever...the look on Mike Myers' face is PRICELESS...SNL has nothing on this live comedy:

IqgcdnLHwzE

[newtothegame]

Since you brought up torture, and we both agree its wrong, how do you justify the drone killings Obama is continuing on SOVERIEGN nations soil? How many people have died in these strikes? Now I am no genious but, seems to me that drone strikes are an act of war.....no???
Since 2009, there have been nearly 300 drone strikes in pakistan and over 2400 deaths. The reports of civilian versus militant vary but its safe to say that a large number are both. Bush was widely criticized for his use of drones, so shouldnt the same hold true for Obama?

Not too mention, Bush's number of drone strikes were 46 while Obama has had well over 300. Seems to me Obama likes killing innocent civilians on a SOVERIEGN nations soil!

[mostpost]

[QUOTE=newtothegame]Since you brought up torture, and we both agree its wrong, how do you justify the drone killings Obama is continuing on SOVERIEGN nations soil? How many people have died in these strikes? Now I am no genious but, seems to me that drone strikes are an act of war.....no???
Since 2009, there have been nearly 300 drone strikes in pakistan and over 2400 deaths. The reports of civilian versus militant vary but its safe to say that a large number are both. Bush was widely criticized for his use of drones, so shouldnt the same hold true for Obama?

Not too mention, Bush's number of drone strikes were 46 while Obama has had well over 300. Seems to me Obama likes killing innocent civilians on a SOVERIEGN nations soil![/QUOTE

A drone is an instrument of war just as a tank or an artillery piece or machine gun is. Drones have not been outlawed in the same way nerve gas or biological weapons have. Perhaps they should be.

I am being generous when I say that it is disingenuous of you to say Obama likes killing innocent civilians. The purpose of the strikes is not to kill innocent civilians, it is to kill known terrorists who have already attacked out country or our citizens.

I felt the same way about this when Bush was president.

[mostpost]

Assuming drones was your next anti Obama point, I will continue.
The 9/11 attacks and their aftermath. Bush failed to exercise due diligence to prevent the attacks. I understand that the attacks may very well have taken place even with increased awareness, but the fact is there was no increased awareness. Bush never met with his advisers on terrorism. He read reports, but according to his own staffers, he never asked questions, never requested experts to meet with him and explain conclusions.

I'll save the aftermath for later.

[Mike at A+]

I don't believe waterboarding is torture because the subject has no permanent bodily damage. The knee jerk liberal reaction to that statement is "Hey will you allow yourself to be waterboarded?" And my reply to that is "I wasn't captured on the battlefield in civilian clothes trying to kill properly uniformed American armed forces." 0bama is playing to his liberal weenie base when he loudly states "America doesn't torture". But with his drone strikes, he has killed several children who happen to be in harm's way. For that, some have called him a war criminal.

[Mike at A+]

Assuming drones was your next anti Obama point, I will continue.
The 9/11 attacks and their aftermath. Bush failed to exercise due diligence to prevent the attacks. I understand that the attacks may very well have taken place even with increased awareness, but the fact is there was no increased awareness. Bush never met with his advisers on terrorism. He read reports, but according to his own staffers, he never asked questions, never requested experts to meet with him and explain conclusions.

I'll save the aftermath for later.
And the corollary to this is that Bush would have been slammed in the media, in the Congress, in Hollywood and in every other liberal infested bastion for profiling the typical suspect. And we now have the TSA sticking their hands up the asses of people who are clearly not suspects just to appease the people against profiling.

[Tom]

Would you rather be:

a) water boarded
b) drone fodder


Enough said.

[Tom]

Bush failed to stop the terrorist plot that was planned and developed under Clinton's watchful eye.

[Robert Goren]

What the difference between using drone and manned air craft other than the drone doesn't risk the life of an American pilot?

[Mike at A+]

What the difference between using drone and manned air craft other than the drone doesn't risk the life of an American pilot?
Same difference between waterboarding and beheading. Waterboarding doesn't risk the life of the terrorist being baptized.

[Capper Al]

Only here could bankrupting the country, get us an unnecessary war, annld spending our surplus be compared to repairing the country, getting us down to one war, and getting us of of the great recession. This truly is an example of fair and balanced thinking?

[delayjf]

Only here could bankrupting the country, get us an unnecessary war, annld spending our surplus be compared to repairing the country, getting us down to one war, and getting us of of the great recession. This truly is an example of fair and balanced thinking?

The surplus was a myth, those who claim a surplus are only counting the public debt. They conveniently left off the money borrowed from Social security.

[newtothegame]

Only here could bankrupting the country, get us an unnecessary war, annld spending our surplus be compared to repairing the country, getting us down to one war, and getting us of of the great recession. This truly is an example of fair and balanced thinking?
But im sure your ok with Obama adding 50% more to the national debt....:lol:

[newtothegame]

What the difference between using drone and manned air craft other than the drone doesn't risk the life of an American pilot?
And, since you and mosty BOTH missed the gist of my Obama screwed up this way, let me spell it out again for you.....

You claim that waterboarding is against the law, and its torture...ok, fair enough. What do you call attacking a sovereign nation with drones and killing innocent civilians??? I guess that's ok. :bang:

[Capper Al]

But im sure your ok with Obama adding 50% more to the national debt....:lol:

That's the cost of recovery like it or not. Would you have rather had a depression after Bush?

[newtothegame]

That's the cost of recovery like it or not. Would you have rather had a depression after Bush?

So your point is if a (D) increases the debt by 50% its recovery, if a (R) does it, it was wasteful?? Gotcha.....
When you take off your rose colored glasses, bring back some real information.

P.S still waiting on the next Bush blunder....please dont tell me you libs are out of ammo....I still have pages for Obama.....:faint:

[fast4522]

Having watched this thread from the beginning while thinking lets see where its going before jumping in. We as a people live in excess, we eat too much and we drink too much and some of us escape reality too much be it what ever mind altering substance. Not really putting enough ands in there we also expect health care to do something after our bodies when they start to fail for being self indulgent morons who did not treat their body's like a temple. Now we compare Presidents for the lousy work they did while bending and being a whore to the polls. When you have half the nation on food stamps, unemployment and drugs you think that this guy is the better one for our little shop of horrors because Seymore is crying MORE. I would like to see a tad more objectivity realizing our expectations are the problem.

[Tom]

Whore to the -polls...there are some things a whore will not do.
Not so the pol.

[delayjf]

get us an unnecessary war,

If Clinton had done his job and nabbed Bin Laden when he had the chance there may never have been a war.

[RaceBookJoe]

If Clinton had done his job and nabbed Bin Laden when he had the chance there may never have been a war.

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Robert Goren]

If Clinton had done his job and nabbed Bin Laden when he had the chance there may never have been a war. He at least tried. He missed him by less than an hour once. Read Against All Enemies: Inside America's War on Terror By Richard Clarke who worked 4 presidents on terrorism, both Bushes, Reagan and Clinton to discover who did what and when before 9/11.

[fast4522]

Obama's record vs Bush's record.

We will have sequestration for the rest of 2013, and when 2014 begins sequestration has a larger percentage for this President that he can not spend. Suck it up now, but if he does not come to the table for compromise his own will be looking to put him on the rack.

[Capper Al]

So your point is if a (D) increases the debt by 50% its recovery, if a (R) does it, it was wasteful?? Gotcha.....
When you take off your rose colored glasses, bring back some real information.

P.S still waiting on the next Bush blunder....please dont tell me you libs are out of ammo....I still have pages for Obama.....:faint:

I hope you wager at my tracks.

[Capper Al]

He at least tried. He missed him by less than an hour once. Read Against All Enemies: Inside America's War on Terror By Richard Clarke who worked 4 presidents on terrorism, both Bushes, Reagan and Clinton to discover who did what and when before 9/11.

And not mentioned was Obama vot him.

[mostpost]

And, since you and mosty BOTH missed the gist of my Obama screwed up this way, let me spell it out again for you.....

You claim that waterboarding is against the law, and its torture...ok, fair enough. What do you call attacking a sovereign nation with drones and killing innocent civilians??? I guess that's ok. :bang:
The last time we attacked a sovereign nation was when George W. Bush attacked Iraq. We are using drones in Afghanistan in conjunction with the duly elected government there. None of the drones there are targeting military forces of their government. The same goes for Pakistan, where we are targeting outlaws, not military or civilians.

[mostpost]

Same difference between waterboarding and beheading. Waterboarding doesn't risk the life of the terrorist being baptized.
Here is a similarity between waterboarding and beheading. Neither one gets you reliable intelligence.

[elysiantraveller]

The last time we attacked a sovereign nation was when George W. Bush attacked Iraq. We are using drones in Afghanistan in conjunction with the duly elected government there. None of the drones there are targeting military forces of their government. The same goes for Pakistan, where we are targeting outlaws, not military or civilians.

How about Yemen, the UAE, and Indonesia?

Want more?

Kyrgyzstan, Libya, and Oman?

Still want more? Give me a minute but that puts us at 9.

Plus we did have an armed drone shot down in Iran.

Mali? Probably. Somalia? Obviously. Sudan??? (Maybe)

So that on the conservative side (pun intended) is 9, and maybe 12, nation states we are currently active in. I'll see what else I can dig up for ya.

[mostpost]

P.S still waiting on the next Bush blunder....please dont tell me you libs are out of ammo....I still have pages for Obama.....
So far all your ammo has been blanks. Back to Bush:
Tora Bora.
Bush failed to act when we had Osama bin Laden trapped at Tora Bora. Our chances to kill or capture bin Laden were better than any chance Clinton had to do the same. Yet Bush never gave the orders to advance and took forces away from that battle.

[JustRalph]

He at least tried. He missed him by less than an hour once. Read Against All Enemies: Inside America's War on Terror By Richard Clarke who worked 4 presidents on terrorism, both Bushes, Reagan and Clinton to discover who did what and when before 9/11.

I prefer ths account where they couldn't pull the trigger. There have been as many as 16 reports that Clinton said he wanted to kill Bin Laden, and as many as 12 times he could have and did not.

http://www.ijreview.com/2012/05/5575-former-cia-officer-clinton-had-opportunity-to-kill-osama-bin-laden/

[Tom]

Bill Clinton's Bucket List

1. kill Bin Laden
2. stop chasing women
3. tell the truth
4. go home to Hillary at night

[elysiantraveller]

So far all your ammo has been blanks. Back to Bush:
Tora Bora.

Okay so he failed there... it wasn't like we weren't fighting there...

Bush failed to act when we had Osama bin Laden trapped at Tora Bora. Our chances to kill or capture bin Laden were better than any chance Clinton had to do the same. Yet Bush never gave the orders to advance and took forces away from that battle.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,188029,00.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/11/magazine/11TORABORA.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

That is about as bold faced lie I've seen anyone throw up on here...

The second is from the Times. Hardly the massive anti-Bush failure you throw on here on a daily basis.

Did we fail at Tora Bora?... Of course. Did we try? You're damn right. We lacked the proper weaponry in the TB offensive because we hadn't begun dropping FAE's or surging in ground forces. In any case I'll take a president who fails on tactical moves as opposed to STRATEGIC moves...

[newtothegame]

So far all your ammo has been blanks. Back to Bush:
Tora Bora.
Bush failed to act when we had Osama bin Laden trapped at Tora Bora. Our chances to kill or capture bin Laden were better than any chance Clinton had to do the same. Yet Bush never gave the orders to advance and took forces away from that battle.
Alright, its failure to act you wish to discuss regarding our presidential comparison??

How's this for you....one dead ambassador and four other Americans? Did this administration get to the bottom of that deal? Or wait, maybe its your contention as well that "what difference does it make"???

Where is the accountability for this tragedy?? :mad:

[Tom]

Where is the accountability for this tragedy?? :mad:

Coming soon, to a primary near you.
I can't wait for the personal attacks, mud slinging, and all that outer low-rent stuff to hit the fan when this bitch runs. She deserves every turd they fling at her.

[delayjf]

Neither one gets you reliable intelligence.

Not true and to be honest we probably won't know the extent of the intel the CIA gathered as its probably classified. It certainly would not be material some FBI agent gathered and put into a book.

[PaceAdvantage]

And not mentioned was Obama vot him.Yippee...by the time he got him, the damage had already been done...and bin Laden had basically been reduced to an afterthought...

But hey, you have to hang your hat on something...so congrats!

[PaceAdvantage]

The last time we attacked a sovereign nation was when George W. Bush attacked Iraq. We are using drones in Afghanistan in conjunction with the duly elected government there. None of the drones there are targeting military forces of their government. The same goes for Pakistan, where we are targeting outlaws, not military or civilians.So you would be ok for Russia to be using drones to take out "suspected terrorists" hiding out in Alaska? Something tells me you would not be...

And last I remember, Pakistan wasn't all too pleased with the US running free in their airspace...

[fast4522]

Somehow I think drones are worthy of their own thread, probably more than a Presidents scorecard thread.

[Capper Al]

Yippee...by the time he got him, the damage had already been done...and bin Laden had basically been reduced to an afterthought...

But hey, you have to hang your hat on something...so congrats!

That was team work that neutralized Bin Laden.

[Tom]

Based on a nugget gained from water boarding.

[newtothegame]

Based on a nugget gained from water boarding.
Tom, you are not helping their cause at all with those little "nuggets" of truth....:lol: