70 year old jock at Fairmount, Robert Jones, finishes 2nd.

[Stillriledup]

Wow, Race 2 today at Fairmount, the jock on the winner did everything in his power to let the old guy win (or, so it seemed) but the horse just dragged the guy to the winners circle kicking and screaming.

[PhantomOnTour]

I posted about this guy, Cowboy Jones, in the Monzante thread...why is he allowed to ride?
The other jocks didn't want to be anywhere near him - he looks horrible out there, and could be endangering man and beast by riding at that age.
On the other hand - how fast are the horses going at FP? Who could get hurt in such a low speed accident?

[Stillriledup]

I posted about this guy, Cowboy Jones, in the Monzante thread...why is he allowed to ride?
The other jocks didn't want to be anywhere near him - he looks horrible out there, and could be endangering man and beast by riding at that age.
On the other hand - how fast are the horses going at FP? Who could get hurt in such a low speed accident?

Whoever the worst jock is in america, he just made that guy or gal look like Angel Cordero. WOW, that was hard to watch.

[rastajenk]

There was something old school about his style, for sure. :D Like, Jimmy Winkfield kind of old school.

[Stillriledup]

There was something old school about his style, for sure. :D Like, Jimmy Winkfield kind of old school.

Totally. You don't see jocks 'look' like that on a horse these days, fascinating to watch.

[cj]

I look better on a horse than that guy did, and I'm just trying not to fall off.

[wiffleball whizz]

I don't think it gets any worse then fairmount park...maybe ferndale fair with mules is better racing

When Im on stone cold tilt playing cards or getting buried and going off betting anything that moves I don't bet fairmount.....it's painful to watch

If FP was the only track left in the world I'd quit betting horse racing the place is filth and to think People actually bet this track makes me think there may be hope for me after all :lol: :lol: :lol:

[cj]

I don't think it gets any worse then fairmount park...maybe ferndale fair with mules is better racing

When Im on stone cold tilt playing cards or getting buried and going off betting anything that moves I don't bet fairmount.....it's painful to watch

If FP was the only track left in the world I'd quit betting horse racing the place is filth and to think People actually bet this track makes me think there may be hope for me after all :lol: :lol: :lol:

Next race looks like the 3 and 9 could lap the rest of them....lets see what happens.

[cj]

...and two horses scratch before they can make it to the gate. (neither the 3 nor the 9 scratched)

[cj]

...and two horses scratch before they can make it to the gate. (neither the 3 nor the 9 scratched)

3 draws away, 9 quits late to finish 3rd. Whizz could have outrun them all down the stretch.

[cordep17]

I don't think it gets any worse then fairmount park...maybe ferndale fair with mules is better racing

When Im on stone cold tilt playing cards or getting buried and going off betting anything that moves I don't bet fairmount.....it's painful to watch

If FP was the only track left in the world I'd quit betting horse racing the place is filth and to think People actually bet this track makes me think there may be hope for me after all :lol: :lol: :lol:

Couldn't disagree more. Hardly any trainer infractions to my knowledge.
A good stock of low quality horses make the races just as playable as any other tracks. Usually, you get horse fields, but there are usually 3 or so 10 horse fields every card.

I don't think that what you are saying is fair.

[bobbyt62]

cordep 17, i'm in agreement with you, and it brings up something else-----longshots greater than 15-1 at "the big tracks" vs. smaller venues like prairie meadows, fairmount, etc. are much less subjectively handicap-able at the bigs than the smalls for me, subjectively meaning non system, non mathematical, or software driven picking. most of the minors also are seasonal meets in some respect, so many of their players are part timers, and not people that go to the races everyday. of course, you can't bet 100 or 200 to win at the minors without killing everything, but i'm not doing this for a living, so its ok. for those good handicappers that will only accept "the bigs" for their play i say----GOOD. i don't want to compete against good handicappers and i don't want to play poker against good players.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

I don't think it gets any worse then fairmount park...maybe ferndale fair with mules is better racing

When Im on stone cold tilt playing cards or getting buried and going off betting anything that moves I don't bet fairmount.....it's painful to watch

If FP was the only track left in the world I'd quit betting horse racing the place is filth and to think People actually bet this track makes me think there may be hope for me after all :lol: :lol: :lol:

When I saw the title of this thread, I thought for a moment Dave Gall had run out of cash....

Got weaned on the ponies at FP back in the mid 1980s. Made the transition from harness to thoroughbreds and never looked back. FP used to race 5 days per week, 10 races per card, with almost all races a "full" field of 10 horses. One exotic bet per race. Looked forward to the 5th and 10th race tris. Gall owned the track the way Day did at CD and OP. Chicago was simulcasted during the daytime starting in 1987 or so.

Between the lottery and the riverboats, FP has taken a beating. Back in the '80s it actually wasn't too bad - the horses were pretty formful, and an occasional decent horse like Battle Cat would appear.

Now, looking over the cards that FP has to offer is definitely a different game. Like any cheap track, some of the races are still handicapable, but compared to other circuits the pickings are pretty lean. Full card simulcasting has spoiled us in that respect, that's for sure.

[wiffleball whizz]

Couldn't disagree more. Hardly any trainer infractions to my knowledge.
A good stock of low quality horses make the races just as playable as any other tracks. Usually, you get horse fields, but there are usually 3 or so 10 horse fields every card.

I don't think that what you are saying is fair.

It very well may not be fair but the racing could be the worst in the country,...but if you can bet it and make money all the power to you!!!

Cj said I could have outrun a horse down the lane they prob come last quarters home slower then harness racing....

When I buy cj figures for the day at 3.99 can I pay 5.99 and not have to look at fairmount park figures?

And to actually think I used to bet the harness action here I should be commited to the looney bin....

Again anybody that can bet this track and make money my hats off to you...I guess a 5/2 pays $7 there just like Saratoga!!

[Hoofless_Wonder]

When I buy cj figures for the day at 3.99 can I pay 5.99 and not have to look at fairmount park figures?

:lol:

That's a classic. Kinda like paying the higher cover to get in the better strip club in hopes the ladies are more attractive....

[cordep17]

...I guess a 5/2 pays $7 there just like Saratoga!!

Surprised you knew this.:lol:

[wiffleball whizz]

I never think I have a problem betting horses but when I walk into otb branch and I see fairmount finger lakes river downs@ Beulah and Monticello I kind of have to take a second look at it :lol: :lol: :lol:

Let me think of some things I'd rather live through again then be involved in a FP card.....

I would rather live through the Yankee Indian game when joba had the bugs swarming him......I bet 700 I didn't have on that game(biggest joke in sports they didn't delay or stop the game) I did actually bet that game


Would rather have had the Houston oilers money line against buffalo in that game they were up 38-3 or 35-3

I would rather have to live through the flacco blessed play over the top to beat me in the Denver game and cost me about a wheelbarrel full of money

I could swear about 3 weeks ago I was going out and had on tvg....FP was going off they turned for home i took a shower ironed my shirt did my hair and brushed my teeth by the time i was done I was able to see the action from the 1/8th pole to the finish....true story :lol: :lol:

[cordep17]

Rather than play FP, you would rather bet on the losing side of games that you already know the results of.:lol: :lol:

I guess there is no reason to be too upset with someone not having respect for FP. I just think it is too bad for you. The quality doesn't need to be the best. It is still playable and fun to watch.

[wiffleball whizz]

Rather than play FP, you would rather bet on the losing side of games that you already know the results of.:lol: :lol:

I guess there is no reason to be too upset with someone not having respect for FP. I just think it is too bad for you. The quality doesn't need to be the best. It is still playable and fun to watch.

Nobody loves betting cheap horses more then me the cheaper the race or worse conference in NCAA football the more I love it...

But FP is on a different level......as a rule when I bet a 6f race and my horse has 2 lengths in the backstretch and the quarter is 24 I expect to be cashing not my horse backing through the field/having nothing in the lane

I'll tell you how much I can't stomach FP when I was in Illinois a few years ago visiting my friend the though of going there never entered my mind!!!

The thought of when Im betting on the self service machine and I go to bet a race and accidentally hit the FP button and my money go in the pool is enough for me to avoid otb during FP running times

And all this is relevant to the thread title cus there is nO track where the jockey Colony would let this 70 year old ride....that's a joke

[cordep17]

You're missing out
Bottom line

[wiffleball whizz]

You're missing out
Bottom line

Hahahahaha of course I am,.....I should just man up and go bet some FP.....I'm prob bashing FP more then I really should be being I've bet a ton of races there!!!!!!

Next time Im in the otb I may give FP some action

[Maximillion]

Apologize in advance if I am wrong about this......but wasnt he banned from one of the Chicago tracks about 20 years ago?

I clearly remember some incident with him....whether it was a ban or something minor im not clear on.

[PoloUK6108]

I'd rather watch weiner dogs race at ellis park than play fairmount, or any cheap track outside of KY for that matter..but that's just me. KY tracks and big circuits are my game.

That said, I wish I could've seen that old man ride, I bet it was funny. The 'horse races now' app doesn't include FP replays, anyone got a link?

[cordep17]

Hahahahaha of course I am,.....I should just man up and go bet some FP.....I'm prob bashing FP more then I really should be being I've bet a ton of races there!!!!!!

Next time Im in the otb I may give FP some action

I wish FP would read this and offer me free admission Friday :D

[SharpCat]

I'd rather watch weiner dogs race at ellis park than play fairmount, or any cheap track outside of KY for that matter..but that's just me. KY tracks and big circuits are my game.

That said, I wish I could've seen that old man ride, I bet it was funny. The 'horse races now' app doesn't include FP replays, anyone got a link?


Go to fairmountpark.com, go to racing and click on live racing replays, click on july 23 and it's race 2.

[wiffleball whizz]

I wish FP would read this and offer me free admission Friday :D

And roll out the red carpet for you!!

[Shemp Howard]

Cowboy Jones was an Ellis Park legend. He was the track's leading rider in 1963, 1969, and 1972.

I guess this means he's won a pari-mutuel race in 7 decades.

[Bruiser1]

Been looking at this thread for a couple of days and been shaking my head at some of the posts.

Should there be a maximum age for jockeys? If so, what age?

If the guy passed a physical, why shouldn't he be allowed to ride?

I seem to recall a "major" track running a race a while back with a few of the jockeys well into their 60's. Using the logic of some here, I guess that track should also be ridiculed.

http://www.horse-canada.com/horse-news/sandy-hawley-captures-living-legends-race-at-santa-anita/

As for the Jones ride, he piloted an 0 for 19 maiden who had finished 2nd three straight races. Yet since he too ended up 2nd, his ride on My Kentucky Breeze was questionable (due to his age)?

I very well may stand in the minority here, but I liked this tracks decision.

[wisconsin]

Back in the '80s it actually wasn't too bad - the horses were pretty formful, and an occasional decent horse like Battle Cat would appear.



I remember when Kim Hammond brought him and the jock (J.O. Rettele) to Arlington and won a couple in a row.

[wiffleball whizz]

Been looking at this thread for a couple of days and been shaking my head at some of the posts.

Should there be a maximum age for jockeys? If so, what age?

If the guy passed a physical, why shouldn't he be allowed to ride?

I seem to recall a "major" track running a race a while back with a few of the jockeys well into their 60's. Using the logic of some here, I guess that track should also be ridiculed.

http://www.horse-canada.com/horse-news/sandy-hawley-captures-living-legends-race-at-santa-anita/

As for the Jones ride, he piloted an 0 for 19 maiden who had finished 2nd three straight races. Yet since he too ended up 2nd, his ride on My Kentucky Breeze was questionable (due to his age)?

I very well may stand in the minority here, but I liked this tracks decision.

It's a joke...and the horses that race there is a joke.....the track is gambleable and nobody plays it

And if he passed a physical and rode like that it's a disgrace to the betting public

[SharpCat]

Why is it a disgrace to the betting pubic? I remember watching that race at Ellis Park and nearly everybody screaming for him.

[wiffleball whizz]

Why is it a disgrace to the betting pubic? I remember watching that race at Ellis Park and nearly everybody screaming for him.

I'm sure it was well publicized

[SharpCat]

Let's try this again. Why is it a disgrace to the betting public?

[duncan04]

It's a joke...and the horses that race there is a joke.....the track is gambleable and nobody plays it

And if he passed a physical and rode like that it's a disgrace to the betting public


If the track is a joke that nobody plays, then how is it a disgrace to the betting public??? :rolleyes:

[wiffleball whizz]

Let's try this again. Why is it a disgrace to the betting public?

Because him being 70 isn't printed in the program and him being 70 makes it a auto-toss.....anybody in there right mind wouldn't bet this guy if they knew he was 70....I think the betting public has a right to know if the jockey is 70 big different between a jock that's 47 and one that's 70

[cordep17]

Age is but a number.
Good thing they didn't tell us his age, because from your point, that would of made him an auto toss and no one would have had him in second.

[wiffleball whizz]

Age is but a number.
Good thing they didn't tell us his age, because from your point, that would of made him an auto toss and no one would have had him in second.

Oh no age is more then a number when it comes to sports....

And to the people of the forum over 50 please don't take this as age discrimination or a knock or insult to you I'm saying age is a huge factor when it comes to athletic compitition....

What is micheal phelps 29 and he's deemed to old for the next Olympics?
Roger federer at 32 over the hill?

So it makes a big difference

[Bruiser1]

A couple of links with videos about Cowboy Jones.

http://tristatehomepage.com/fulltext?nxd_id=194075

http://kplr11.com/2013/07/23/70-year-old-jockey-still-working-at-fairmount-park/

[Stillriledup]

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/other/fairmount-race-is-under-investigation/article_f2228e15-90a8-54c3-9155-380a6eecb6a8.html#.UfVqL8zNqnM.email

[PaceAdvantage]

See how hard it is to fix a race? Even when you're allegedly trying to fix it? :lol:

[Shemp Howard]

See how hard it is to fix a race? Even when you're allegedly trying to fix it? :lol:

That's why Buddy Gilmour was one -of-a kind. He never missed.

[cordep17]

Maybe the four doesn't like the whip, but if that were true, why take it onto the track with no intention of using it.

I think the fix was on, and I think we can all be pleased that it is under investigation, eh?
Sucks to be cowboy though. I can't imagine that cool of a guy asking his fellow riders to let him win. He probably just genuinely thought he was winning.

[Stillriledup]

That's why Buddy Gilmour was one -of-a kind. He never missed.

He Didnt?

[speed]

That's why Buddy Gilmour was one -of-a kind. He never missed.
He never missed his budweiser.

[wisconsin]

Maybe the four doesn't like the whip, but if that were true, why take it onto the track with no intention of using it.

I think the fix was on, and I think we can all be pleased that it is under investigation, eh?
Sucks to be cowboy though. I can't imagine that cool of a guy asking his fellow riders to let him win. He probably just genuinely thought he was winning.


I'm pretty sure he asked no one. I remember the race at Arlington where Alan Monet was retiring after, and he won easy. I'm pretty sure the fix is in more often than we care to believe. You know, that 8/5 horse that actually figures, nobody really gets hurt, and everyone gets some walking around money. Read T.D. Thorton's book about Suffolk. It's in there.

[cordep17]

I'm pretty sure he asked no one. I remember the race at Arlington where Alan Monet was retiring after, and he won easy. I'm pretty sure the fix is in more often than we care to believe. You know, that 8/5 horse that actually figures, nobody really gets hurt, and everyone gets some walking around money. Read T.D. Thorton's book about Suffolk. It's in there.

That could have been the plan in this case too.
My Kentucky Breeze was the even money favorite. They probably didn't think it would be so hard not to win.

[Track Phantom]

I just watched the replay and noticed a couple of things:

1. The horse in question went off at even money. You'd think, if the race was legit, a rider change to a 70 year old would make the runner an overlay. Clearly, someone knew this rider change was not an issue.

2. It was the most obvious race fixing (attempt) I've ever seen. Watch the action of the two "other" runners from the far turn on. The #1 and #4 both had a clear chance to win and both riders were sitting on their horse as if they had another lap to go. No way was that legit. Not a chance in hell.

I'd pay big money to someone if they can find even ONE other race at Fairmount where a horse is neck and neck for the lead and the rider doesn't use his whip or push on the horse.

[cj]

Let's try this again. Why is it a disgrace to the betting public?

I guess you have your answer now?

[cordep17]

I just watched the replay and noticed a couple of things:

1. The horse in question went off at even money. You'd think, if the race was legit, a rider change to a 70 year old would make the runner an overlay. Clearly, someone knew this rider change was not an issue.

2. It was the most obvious race fixing (attempt) I've ever seen. Watch the action of the two "other" runners from the far turn on. The #1 and #4 both had a clear chance to win and both riders were sitting on their horse as if they had another lap to go. No way was that legit. Not a chance in hell.

I'd pay big money to someone if they can find even ONE other race at Fairmount where a horse is neck and neck for the lead and the rider doesn't use his whip or push on the horse.

Do you think the people betting the race would recognize Cowboy's name and know he was 70 years old? The horse did make sense.

[Track Phantom]

Do you think the people betting the race would recognize Cowboy's name and know he was 70 years old? The horse did make sense.

True. It did make sense.

My point put forward another way is this. The first thing I would look at if I felt there was some funny business going on is the tote board. The tote board was in line with the race fixing. If the horse had been 5-2 or higher, I would have said that is not normal if the race was indeed fixed.

I would have to look at the size of the pool, bets, exotics, etc to get a good grasp of it but, having said all of that, just watching the race is all you need. I've watched hundreds of thousands of races and it is quite easy to tell when something isn't right.

What really tipped me over the edge was how the rider really tugged back on the winner once he got even with the Jones runner. He was trying to do everything he could to get that horse beat but couldn't, short of pulling it up.