Debunking Canadian health care myths

[maddog42]

http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_12523427


Myth: Taxes in Canada are extremely high, mostly because of national health care.
Myth: Canada's health care system is a cumbersome bureaucracy.
Myth: Canada's government decides who gets health care and when they get it.
Myth: There are long waits for care, which compromise access to care.

[Tom]

So says an opinion piece.
Opinions vary.

[hcap]

http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_12523427


Myth: Taxes in Canada are extremely high, mostly because of national health care.
Myth: Canada's health care system is a cumbersome bureaucracy.
Myth: Canada's government decides who gets health care and when they get it.
Myth: There are long waits for care, which compromise access to care.








The first Neanderthal, "Mr It's been hotter, it's been cooler" :) is an example of what will happen to this thread. Don't expect much from many here. I have posted dozens of factual studies and started many threads.

IMHO pretty useless.
Good luck.

[Jay Trotter]

I know I'm wasting my time but....

Heath Care isn't a "right" per se but I do think it is a good measurement of a society's strength. If a society can afford it (which both the US and Canada can) then every single person that makes up that society should have a reasonable expectation of affordable health care.

People get sick for any number of reasons (heredity, environmental, etc.), often no fault of their own. A good example would be the many brave individuals who stepped up on 9/11. Why should someone suffer or go bankrupt due to medical need? That just doesn't make sense in a strong society.

The key to the system working though is to get 100% on board. Going in only part way is a recipe for continued inefficiencies. The fact that my family and myself don't need to worry about our health care needs removes a great burden/stress from our lives.

Just one happy capitalists opinon. :ThmbUp:

[mostpost]

So says an opinion piece.
Opinions vary.
There is a saying that has become popular recently. "You have a right to your own opinion; you do not have a right to your own facts." In this case, Rhonda Hackett has an opinion backed up by verifiable facts. You have an opinion with zero facts to back it up.
For example, it is a verifiable fact that More than 31 percent of every dollar spent on health care in the U.S. goes to paperwork, overhead, CEO salaries, profits, etc. The provincial single-payer system in Canada operates with just a 1 percent overhead.

It is also verifiable that Ten percent of Canada's GDP is spent on health care for 100 percent of the population. The U.S. spends 17 percent of its GDP but 15 percent of its population has no coverage whatsoever and millions of others have inadequate coverage.

I could go on and on, but I will be content with saying that everything in the article can be verified by independent statistics or by reading the relevant laws. Everything you think can be refuted in the same way.

[Tom]

Why should someone suffer or go bankrupt due to medical need? That just doesn't make sense in a strong society.

I agree, but then come with a reasonable way to prevent it other than taking from some to pay for others. We are spending money at unprecedented levels and wasting billions on interest alone. The solution is NOT to make everyone pay more, it is to spend wisely. A fact totally lost on democrats.
How many prescriptions could be filled for each campaign flight Obama takes on AF1? How many could have been filled instead of line dancing lessons for the IRS?

Get my point - we COULD be taking care of everyone's health needs if the go would set some realistic priorities. We are sending money to Egypt illegally - our laws say we cannot finance a military coup, so Obama refuses to call it what we all know it is. How may people could be helped with that money?

[JustRalph]

Check out this video on YouTube:

http://youtu.be/X_Rf42zNl9U

[jballscalls]

I have two friends who live and work at tracks in Canada. One loves the HC system, one hates it. Both guys serve in similar roles and have similar incomes.

[jballscalls]

Check out this video on YouTube:

http://youtu.be/X_Rf42zNl9U

are you anti-single payer system Ralph?

[Clocker]

are you anti-single payer system Ralph?

There is no such thing as a single payer system. There are always alternatives if you can afford them. The more that the government restricts your freedom of choice, the fewer the alternatives you have and the more expensive they become.

[jballscalls]

There is no such thing as a single payer system. There are always alternatives if you can afford them. The more that the government restricts your freedom of choice, the fewer the alternatives you have and the more expensive they become.

thanks for the explanation! I've just always heard of Canada/Britain/other countries referred to as Single Payer, so that's why I used that term.

I've only received health care here in the States, so I can't really comment on validity of other countries HC systems.

[Clocker]

thanks for the explanation! I've just always heard of Canada/Britain/other countries referred to as Single Payer, so that's why I used that term.

I've only received health care here in the States, so I can't really comment on validity of other countries HC systems.

I was being facetious. Yes, Canada has what is generally referred to as a single payer system, in which the government provides "free" standardized health care to all citizens. Those who can afford it can get additional services not covered by the government by paying cash or by buying additional private insurance, except in those provinces, such as Ontario, that forbid it.

The ultimate alternative is to go to the US for treatment unavailable in Canada. Detroit may not have much going for it these days, but they still have doctors and hospitals being used by Canadians across the river.

[TJDave]

All health care is rationed. Here we ration by cost/profit...In Canada by the number of participants. I have many Canadian friends. Those who are wealthy hate the system, those who aren't seem to like it.

BTW, there are lines. I have a friend who damn near died from Thyroid cancer. Took him six months to see a specialist and another four to have the operation.

[JustRalph]

All health care is rationed. Here we ration by cost/profit...In Canada by the number of participants. I have many Canadian friends. Those who are wealthy hate the system, those who aren't seem to like it.

BTW, there are lines. I have a friend who damn near died from Thyroid cancer. Took him six months to see a specialist and another four to have the operation.


Come on Dave? That's anecdotal ........t doesn't really count! ;)

I am against single payer, and any government run product. Not just healthcare

The free market is the most efficient, always. If it weren't for cost shifting, we wouldn't have as big a problem

[TJDave]

The free market is the most efficient, always. If it weren't for cost shifting, we wouldn't have as big a problem

Healthcare in this country is not free market. It is a monopoly.

Actual cost shifting accounts for a minuscule portion of increases. The problem is that providers, insurers, drug companies legally charge whatever they choose. There are no Costco, Walmart or Target business models in the industry.

[highnote]

I am against single payer, and any government run product. Not just healthcare

The free market is the most efficient, always. If it weren't for cost shifting, we wouldn't have as big a problem

Generally, I agree that free markets are the best way to solve problems and eliminate waste. However, there are some things government does better than private companies. I don't know if health care in the U.S. will be one of those things. Government has played a huge role in health care over the years, indirectly, by doing things like funding research or running regulatory agencies.

Bare with me while I digress for a second. I'll get back to HC in a second...

One thing I think government should do and not private companies is run prisons. Kentucky is switching back to government run prisons and away from for-profit prisons. For profit prisons do a good enough job incarcerating and caring for prisoners (and even providing some FREE health care), but what they do not do is provide for any sort of training or rehabilitation. There is no incentive for a for-profit company to provide extra services. So prisoners do their time and then get released back onto the street and too often end up on food stamps and welfare or commit more crimes. Also, there is corruption in for-profit prison. Judges take kickbacks for longer sentences. There was a very serious case in Pennsylvania where a judge was sentencing boys to long, unnecessary sentences in a youth detention facility because he was getting kickbacks from the youth jail's owner. This went on for years! If a mentally ill individual gets put into one of the for-profit jails they don't get mental health treatment and when they are released they still suffer the same ills that caused them to be put into jail in the first place.

Now, as for corruption in private health care companies... everyone knows stories of doctors and medical facilities overcharging insurance companies or committing health care fraud against Medicare and Medicade.

Every one of my paychecks show a deduction for Medicare. This health care payment is mandated. Medicare is for elderly people regardless of income. So some wealthy people are entitled to Medicare, but it is being subsidized by every wage earner.

Most people would agree that our health care system is seriously flawed. Almost every president since FDR has tried to institute some form of government sponsored health care. The fact that FDR enforced a freeze on wages is what caused companies to provide health insurance to their employees as an incentive since they couldn't offer them a raise.

Now it has become an entitlement program for almost every company. Many full-time employee at most companies feel they are entitled to company subsidized health care insurance.

In a lot of ways free-enterprise might flourish if the companies didn't have to worry about providing free or subsidized health care insurance to their employees.

Obamacare may turn out to be a huge disaster, but health care as it is, is already turning into a huge disaster. Either way, it needs fixed. And neither free enterprise or government have found a good solution.

[pandy]

Healthcare in this country is not free market. It is a monopoly.

Actual cost shifting accounts for a minuscule portion of increases. The problem is that providers, insurers, drug companies legally charge whatever they choose. There are no Costco, Walmart or Target business models in the industry.


Hard to argue this. The hospitals in particular over charge by huge percentages which forces the insurance companies to raise rates, and it gets worse every year because the government doesn't have an answer to control hospital charges. Even not-for-profit hospitals have these absurdly high rates.

[Tom]

There are reasons why they have to charge high rates.

[Robert Goren]

I think I see a compromise here. Any immigrant that doesn't have real private health insurance get immediately deported. Any Immigrant that has health insurance for 15 years without interruption could apply for citizenship. That should satisfy both liberals and conservatives.