Perfect example of total LIBERAL control...Detroit

[sammy the sage]

what it has become w/the fall-out..bankruptcy

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/detroit-bankruptcy-own-worst-enemy-101005360.html

[Clocker]

The next step is bankruptcy court. When the judge there starts talking about cutting city jobs, wages, benefits and pensions, the unions will be screaming for a federal bail out.

[highnote]

Some see bankruptcy. Others see opportunity.

A startup business or a business willing to move to Detroit could get the sweetheart deal of a lifetime.

As the saying goes, the best time to invest is when there is blood in the streets.

[highnote]

This article says what I was thinking:

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/detroit-worse-gets-better-151715819.html

If I was a resident I would try to buy up some of the abandoned houses in adjacent lots and turn it into farmland. If it is still possible to buy condemned homes for $1 it could work. Then you could demolish the homes and sell the scrap -- assuming they haven't already been stripped.

If you could get a few acres of farmland in the center of Detroit you could sell fresh produce or meat direct to restaurants and butcher shops. Over time you might even be able to get 40 or more acres.

It would be like Detroit starting over from scratch.

I don't know if it's practical, but if I lived there I would find the opportunities. If not, then I would be like the other 800,000 people and move to the sun belt.

[so.cal.fan]

I hope they stop bailing these disasters out with our tax dollars.

That said, Obama probably will, just in time to claim the Dems "saved" Detroit? It's probably on the table for them. They will come up with some fake "hail Mary pass" at the last minuet to try AGAIN to fool the low information complacent voters.

[Tom]

Unsustainable contracts for unions - bailed out by taxpayers.
Same old same old.
Time to tighten the belts and let the chips fall where they may.

[mostpost]

The next step is bankruptcy court. When the judge there starts talking about cutting city jobs, wages, benefits and pensions, the unions will be screaming for a federal bail out.
And just what do you think has been going on the last several years? Detroit cut spending $200 M in 2011 and $250 M in 2012. Thousands of jobs were eliminated. Salaries were cut by 10% across the board. Whole departments were privatized or eliminated.

This bankruptcy is not so much about financial stability as it is about breaking the public sector unions.

[HuggingTheRail]

I'm currently the high bidder on EBay for Detroit...

[Tom]

I'm currently the high bidder on EBay for Detroit...

Now that is funny! :lol:

[Capper Al]

I grew up in the tri-county area. The assumption that if there weren't unions doesn't hold up. All you righties not familar with Detroit associate unions and Detroit and don't know a darn thing more and, sadly, don't want to know a darn thing more. Did Detroit blow it? Yes. But it would have failed with or without unions. Their first mistake was believing that the prosperity from the auto industry would also be there. The second was not cutting expenses as people moved out to the subrubs. A lot of Detroit's debt belongs to those who moved away.

[JustRalph]

And just what do you think has been going on the last several years? Detroit cut spending $200 M in 2011 and $250 M in 2012. Thousands of jobs were eliminated. Salaries were cut by 10% across the board. Whole departments were privatized or eliminated.

This bankruptcy is not so much about financial stability as it is about breaking the public sector unions.

They're 9.2 billion behind in unfounded liabilities. The interest over the next 7 yrs will make it 16 Billion unless they file bankruptcy. But you're touting a 10% cut :lol:

Yep, that'll fix it.......

[JustRalph]

I grew up in the tri-county area. The assumption that if there weren't unions doesn't hold up. All you righties not familar with Detroit associate unions and Detroit and don't know a darn thing more and, sadly, don't want to know a darn thing more. Did Detroit blow it? Yes. But it would have failed with or without unions. Their first mistake was believing that the prosperity from the auto industry would also be there. The second was not cutting expenses as people moved out to the subrubs. A lot of Detroit's debt belongs to those who moved away.

Therein lies the real problem. People vote with their feet. It's the absolute last referendum.

Da Chickens have come home to roost.......

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/23/us/23detroit.html?_r=0

[DJofSD]

There was a couple of discussions on Kudlow's program on Thursday which I thought got to the heart of the matter in an apolitical way.

It remains to be seen if there will be any federal involvement at any level or to any degree.

[Clocker]

I'm currently the high bidder on EBay for Detroit...


I think you may have some competition.


https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/p75x225/1069187_476186969138414_1525385987_n.jpg

[JustRalph]

A judge shuts the whole process down

Bankruptcy is off! :lol:


This should be fun to watch

[mostpost]

They're 9.2 billion behind in unfounded liabilities. The interest over the next 7 yrs will make it 16 Billion unless they file bankruptcy. But you're touting a 10% cut :lol:

Yep, that'll fix it.......
This whole unfunded liabilities thing is a farce. What is an unfunded liablility? Here is a definition:
unfunded liability

The amount, at any given time, by which future payment obligations exceed the present value of funds available to pay them. For example, a pension plan's payment obligations, including all income, death and termination benefits owed, are compared to the plan's present investment experience, and if the total plan obligations exceed the projected plan assets at any point in time, the plan has an unfunded liability


In plain English, it means we don't have enough money today to pay for expenses that we will not incur for many years. It ignores the fact that we will be getting more money in the intervening years.

A deficit, on the other hand, means we do not have enough money today to pay for expenses we will incur today. A deficit is a problem we need to fix. An unfunded liability is a scare tactic.

[DJofSD]

This whole unfunded liabilities thing is a farce. What is an unfunded liablility? Here is a definition:


In plain English, it means we don't have enough money today to pay for expenses that we will not incur for many years. It ignores the fact that we will be getting more money in the intervening years.

A deficit, on the other hand, means we do not have enough money today to pay for expenses we will incur today. A deficit is a problem we need to fix. An unfunded liability is a scare tactic.
You can not control the schedule of the payouts for those liabilities. You have a feduciary duty to operate the fund to be able to meet all the obligations no matter when they occur.

Saying there is not a problem because you will not be paying out any obligations right away and you will have time to build up the fund before then is exactly how the problem was created in the first place.

[JustRalph]

http://t.co/Nj1wzY6WZi

Pure Detroit

[Clocker]

Saying there is not a problem because you will not be paying out any obligations right away and you will have time to build up the fund before then is exactly how the problem was created in the first place.

Ditto. And if you don't have a prayer of building up the fund because you are bleeding money and getting further and further behind, then you have a problem.

Trying to make that kind of distinction between debt and unfunded liability masks the problem. If you are living paycheck to paycheck, next month's rent is not a debt. But it is an unfunded liability. And if you don't fund it within the next 30 days, it is a big problem.

And on the larger scale of a government, future liabilities are incurred on the assumption that they will be funded. To do otherwise is utterly irresponsible. It is passing the buck, or the lack of bucks, to the next administration and ultimately to the next generation.

[JustRalph]

This whole unfunded liabilities thing is a farce. What is an unfunded liablility? Here is a definition:


In plain English, it means we don't have enough money today to pay for expenses that we will not incur for many years. It ignores the fact that we will be getting more money in the intervening years.

A deficit, on the other hand, means we do not have enough money today to pay for expenses we will incur today. A deficit is a problem we need to fix. An unfunded liability is a scare tactic.

Using this kind of thinking as an excuse to do the same ole same ole is why Detroit is bankrupt.

I expect a Big Federal Sugar Daddy is just around the corner

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/05/joann-watson-detroit-bacon-obama_n_2247348.html

zI8HRGWKCRc

"Our people" and calling for a "quid pro quo"

[fast4522]

Let Detroit stand its own ground, quicksand ago-go. :lol: :lol: :lol:
+

[JustRalph]

http://storify.com/MelissaTweets/detroit-s-demise-david-freddoso-documents-the-doom?utm_source=embed_header

This link pretty much covers it. With pic's

[johnhannibalsmith]

...
In plain English, it means we don't have enough money today to pay for expenses that we will not incur for many years. It ignores the fact that we will be getting more money in the intervening years.
...

No, what it does is NOT assume that the money will certainly be there to pay future obligations in their entirety as promised. Considering that the money keeps NOT being there, or isn't accumulating at the rate once projected that it would, it's far from a scare tactic, it's a reality that has to be considered.

I'm guessing that you aren't out earning money any more. I'm sure that you'd sleep well if there wasn't any money to pay you the money that you expect until death because, after all it is just a scare tactic and they'll probably get some money between now and then for ya.

Not addressing these sort of liabilities when it is apparent that the money isn't here today and the reality that it probably won't be there as expected tomorrow is how a lot of these places end up with the debt and deficit that you go on to claim is a problem that needs fixing. Well guess what? Deal with the part you call a "scare tactic" instead of ignoring it and calling it a "scare tactic" and you've take a big step towards fixing this problem that you do think needs fixed.

[Tom]

Here's an idea I heard today - GIVE Detroit to the 11 million "undocumented aliens" everyone wants to make citizens. GIVE them the city. Let do whatever they want with it.

I bet within one year, the place is turned around. Surprising what a group of people who WANT to succeed can do compared to a group of people who demand some one else pay their way. Give me 3 undocumented aliens for every one union boy any day.

So mosite, what happens when the checks are due and money has not come in yet? Do you WAIT for it, or you leech it off someone else?

"Off to pick up his pension check from the old stomping grounds"

[BlueShoe]

When do Jesse and Al and the other poverty pimps show up and blame Detroit's problems on "White Racism?" Oh wait, thats right, they are a bit busy right now stirring the pot over the Trayvon thing. But be patient, am sure they will be along soon.

[Tom]

The US Auto companies crawled through Detroit, heading north and west, like a snail, leaving behind a trail of slime. Much of Detroit's problem is the fault of an industry that cared only about itself for decades.

And the people who kept electing democrats and listening to the lies they were told instead of opening their eyes and seeing what was happening.

Give it to Canada - it fits nicely geographically and is nothing more than a liability for us.

Ta ta.

[Robert Goren]

The places where those auto companies crawled to will be next up in bankruptcy court. Large companies have got the act of raping a city/state and leaving it the dust down pat. No matter how much chest pounding the sites of these plants are doing now about how pro business they are, it only a matter of time before some more "pro business" place steals them away. The rush to cheap labor and massive local/state giveaways is now going on in full force. I see it in Nebraska all the time. It looks like that we will land a new business with a massive government giveaway that 10 years ago would have unthinkable by even the most pro business advocates only to be out bid by some place else. What the local taxpayers have dish out to land a business and keep it is not sustainable. The local politicians would like you to believe is all they are giving away is a few tax breaks, but that is the smallest part of the deals they have cut these days.

[Tom]

Two words - NO TAX BREAKS.
Alright, three.

Giving tax breaks is bad for taxpayers.
It brings in businesses, it creates jobs, yadda yadda yadda.....it is BAD for taxpayers.

[woodtoo]

I think you may have some competition.


https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/p75x225/1069187_476186969138414_1525385987_n.jpg

:lol:

[Clocker]

And the people who kept electing democrats and listening to the lies they were told instead of opening their eyes and seeing what was happening.


Not true, according to MSNBC's Ed Schultz. He says Detroit was ruined by the Republicans:

Michigan used to be a symbol of industrial strength in manufacturing in this country. But thanks to a lot of Republican policies, the city is now filing for bankruptcy. Now, it’s the largest public sector bankruptcy in U.S. history, and the consequences could be devastating if you care about people. The already small force of police, firefighters and EMTs are in danger of future layoffs, that’s only going to make it worse. Roughly 30,000 retired workers are concerned about their pensions. You know, what they’re counting on. Make no mistake, Detroit is exactly what the Republicans want. They outsourced manufacturing jobs, attack unions, cut public services, and this is the result. Now they can wipe the slate clean because now they can start privatizing city assets.

[highnote]

Maybe Detroit was ruined by crappy cars? Remember the Pinto?

The best electric car GM can make costs $40k and will only go 40 miles per charge!

The bottom line Tesla goes 6 times as far for only twice as much.

Of course, the auto dealers don't want the Tesla to be sold directly to consumers. They want it be sold through dealerships. God forbid they have to face competition.

The auto industry is a lot like the horse racing industry. Neither wants to change their business model to fit the current economic realities.

[Tom]

Not true, according to MSNBC's Ed Schultz. He says Detroit was ruined by the Republicans:

Ed Schultz did not wear a helmet when he played football.

[so.cal.fan]

Tom's right about that...Ed Shultz is an idiot.

[Tom]

He....knows......noooooothinggggggggk!

[Clocker]

Tom's right about that...Ed Shultz is an idiot.

That's part of the job description at MSNBC. Here is top investigative journalist Mellisa Harris-Perry from the same network.

We can talk about the microstory of Detroit, but it seems to me that Detroit, as always, is standing for all kinds of things about America. In the case of Detroit, the reason that the tax base has become so small is because a loss of population, right? So folks out, they are not there to pay the taxes on the homes and the kind of deterioration is what you see in the numbers you’ve suggested. But this lack of tax base is also exactly the kind of thing that many Republicans would impose on us, even when our cities have sufficient populations, even when our communities have sufficient populations. This is what it looks like when government is small enough to drown in your bathtub, and it is not a pretty picture.

[badcompany]

That's part of the job description at MSNBC. Here is top investigative journalist Mellisa Harris-Perry from the same network.


This is some bizarre logic, even by liberal standards. What she conveniently leaves out is that in a low tax city, the population would be comprised of productive people and taxes could go to basic government services as opposed to transfer payments.

However, in her Liberal fantasyland, there's no difference between a small business owner and someone on welfare.

[delayjf]

What the local taxpayers have dish out to land a business and keep it is not sustainable.

Niether are the inflated salaries, benefits, and pensions corrupt politicians have rewarded to State employees.

Detroit is a prelude what is coming in CA.

[Clocker]

This is some bizarre logic, even by liberal standards.

You want bizarre logic? I'll show you bizarre logic. Melissa Harris-Perry strikes again:

We have never invested as much in public education as we should have because we’ve always had a private notion of children, your kid is yours and totally your responsibility. We haven’t had a very collective notion of these are our children.

So part of it is we have to break through our kind of private idea that kids belong to their parents or kids belong to their families and recognize that kids belong to whole communities.

Once it’s everybody’s responsibility and not just the household’s we start making better investments.





Your kids belong to the collective. Resistance is futile.

Warning to parents of college-age children. Melissa Harris-Perry is a professor of political science at Tulane University.

[PaceAdvantage]

That is some scary shit...but not original...I point you to "It Takes A Village" by one Hillary Rodham Clinton..or as I like to call her..."Killer"

[Tom]

This is why you NEVER negotiate with liberals.
There is NO bipartisan activities that are ever acceptable.
We do not need to work with liberals - we always need to work against them.
They are not like us.

[highnote]

This is why you NEVER negotiate with liberals.
There is NO bipartisan activities that are ever acceptable.
We do not need to work with liberals - we always need to work against them.
They are not like us.

So if there is no bipartisan activity that is ever acceptable it comes down to who has the most power.

It is a good thing the Founding Fathers built in a balance of power in the federal government.

Stalemate is exactly what they wanted. When one party gets too powerful the government has too much control. The country gets along fine without too much government intervention.

[badcompany]

You want bizarre logic? I'll show you bizarre logic. Melissa Harris-Perry strikes again:



Your kids belong to the collective. Resistance is futile.

Warning to parents of college-age children. Melissa Harris-Perry is a professor of political science at Tulane University.

If there's a silver lining, it's that recent advances in Internet technology have rendered most of the liberal arts education infrastructure obsolete. Going forward, thankfully, there will a lot fewer Melissa Harris Perrys.

[Tom]

That and abortion - the great liberal equalizer.

[porchy44]

Outsourcing

Reap what you sow

[JustRalph]

Detroit stunned by findings......

Police in Detroit announced the discovery of an arms cache of 200 semi-automatic rifles with 25,000 rounds of ammunition, 200 pounds of heroin, 5 million in forged US banknotes and 25 trafficked prostitutes -- all in a semi-detached house behind the Public Library on Woodward Ave.

Local residents were stunned.

A community spokesman said: "We're all shocked; we never knew we had a library.

[Capper Al]

Detroit stunned by findings......

Police in Detroit announced the discovery of an arms cache of 200 semi-automatic rifles with 25,000 rounds of ammunition, 200 pounds of heroin, 5 million in forged US banknotes and 25 trafficked prostitutes -- all in a semi-detached house behind the Public Library on Woodward Ave.

Local residents were stunned.

A community spokesman said: "We're all shocked; we never knew we had a library.

Okay Ralph,

You might not have a clue on Detroit, but that was funny.

[so.cal.fan]

Has anyone watched that TV show about pawn broker shop in Detroit?

The people walking in and out of that place look like refugees from Walmart! :lol:

We have old friends from California (Reseda) living in Detroit, so far I haven't seen them walking through the door of that pawn shop!

Very sad to see this place become what it has......

[DJofSD]

Has anyone watched that TV show about pawn broker shop in Detroit?

The people walking in and out of that place look like refugees from Walmart! :lol:

We have old friends from California (Reseda) living in Detroit, so far I haven't seen them walking through the door of that pawn shop!

Very sad to see this place become what it has......
My brother loves that program. I watched an episode or two when visiting him and could not believe the attitude and expectations of some of the clients.

[DJofSD]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/08/02/dems_favor_federal_bailout_of_detroit_public_does_ not_119482.html

[Tom]

Has anyone watched that TV show about pawn broker shop in Detroit?

The people walking in and out of that place look like refugees from Walmart! :lol:

We have old friends from California (Reseda) living in Detroit, so far I haven't seen them walking through the door of that pawn shop!

Very sad to see this place become what it has......

I've been there before - I used to stay right around the corner from them a lot when I used to go to GM all the time. It wasn't a very good area back then. I didn't go inside, but I turned around in the parking lot once. First time I saw it on TV, I thought Wow! I know that place.

[JustRalph]

http://www.bloomberg.com/image/i7RHW6iVr3Ck.jpg

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-07/we-are-all-going-to-pension-hell.html

[Tom]

Kind of explains why Detroit is such a gross failure as a city, huh?
Gross failures as people live there.

[DJofSD]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-09/detroit-losing-1-million-check-bares-hobbling-processes.html