What do you look for when you make a claim?

[Valuist]

I've claimed a few horses over the years; either with one other partner or two, or a part of a bigger partnership. What do I look for?

1. Versatility. Claiming in Chicago means running over synthetic for 5 months of the year, and real dirt the other 5 to 5 1/2 months when they race at Hawthorne. A horse doesn't have to be the second coming of Wise Dan, but hopefully be able to be competitive on either surface. Just too big of a gamble if your horse can only run on its preferred surface for 5 months a year. Being able to turf is a bonus, but I wouldn't claim a horse who was exclusively a grass horse.

2. Not too much mileage on the tires, for obvious reasons. Preferably a 3 or 4 year old. When I've claimed, its usually been in the $7500-$12500 neighborhood. Prefer to have not much more than 15 races or so.

3. Ideally has its NW1X condition available and a NW3 claiming condition left. Can a 10000 NW3 type runner win a NW1X? Absolutely, especially in December when most of the good stock is gone. I really prefer Illinois breds, where a horse can go from a 7500 NW3 and straight into a SNW1X and be a strong contender.

4. The physical stuff I leave to the trainer. That's their area of expertise.

5. Running style- prefer not a need the lead at all cost type as they are more likely to develop issues. Ideally a horse that can stalk relatively close; be close to a slow pace, and be off of a fast pace.

6. Form--the best scenario is when a horse's real form is better than it looks on paper. A hidden trip can make the form look shaky on paper and scare off other potential claimees.

At what point to drop? Once you own the horse, purchase price should not matter where you run. Anybody who says "we paid $15k; we can't run for $7.5K" is wrong. If the horse's form dictates it needs to drop in class, you have to drop it. Besides, purses for low level claiming races are better than ever.

[Mineshaft]

1-Soundness-I watch replays, snoop around and ask if the horse is alright. Maybe talk to the jock to see if he will talk.

2-Find a race in the book where should I claim the horse I can run it back in 3-4 weeks.

[PICSIX]

1-Soundness-I watch replays, snoop around and ask if the horse is alright. Maybe talk to the jock to see if he will talk.

2-Find a race in the book where should I claim the horse I can run it back in 3-4 weeks.

1-2 weeks is even better.

[Mineshaft]

1-2 weeks is even better.





yes but a lot depends on how often they were running the horse before you claimed it. I like to kind of freshen them up somewhat.

[northerndancer]

Here is what I look for:

1. Do not like Maidens.... I want a horse that has already shown they know how to get to the wire first;

2. I like horses with lifetime conditions... the NW2L & NW3L;

3. I like horses that will get their yearly conditions back in a short period of time... NW1Y.... NW2D(usually six months);

4. I prefer to claim at the mid range level ($7,500, $10,000, $12,500);

5. I am not looking to claim in order to win an allowance race I am looking to win one or two races as that can get you out of the horse;

6. I give a horse 90 days. If the horse has not paid for their monthly cost within 90 days then drop them to the bottom and let someone else have a shot.... or find them a home... it is the monthly nut that will kill you not what you paid for them.... what you paid for the horse is a sunk cost;

7. I do not rely on 'track information'. I do not want my trainer asking around about a horse if we have decided we like a horse. I believe that most track information is misinformation. I would not want my jock telling other outfits about my horses therefore I will not ask them about other outfits horses (door swings both ways);

8. I look for decent current form... a horse that is competitive 4th beaten 5 lengths you have something to work with.... 8th beaten 18 lengths no thank you... my trainers are good but not miracle workers;

9. I do not claim off the Super Trainers;

10. I like to claim horses that have only run on Synthetic but show decent works on the dirt (Woodbine angle here.... training track is dirt). Wait the jail time take them to a softer circuit and let them go on the dirt;

11. You have to watch replays... it is a must;

12. The final decision on whether to drop rests with the trainer;

[jballscalls]

I like to have something that me and the trainer think we can make a change and have a good result. Maybe a horse that has been routing and we think is wanting to sprint. a dirt horse who might like the grass (except here in the NW where grass is not allowed :))

in addition, many of the other things posters above have said

[northerndancer]

One more self imposed rule of my operation.... I will not claim or purchase turf horses.... this game is tough enough so do not go looking for more issues to deal with and turf horses have a major albatross which are as follows:

1. The weather has to be on your side;
2. The stakes schedule has to be favorable... if your race is in the book on the turf with major stakes the next day you can be switched to the dirt in a heartbeat even without mother nature being involved;
3. Field size is 50% larger compared to the dirt;
4. Your racing season is reduced by a minimum of 40% unless you want to incur the cost of shipping south in the winter;

[Valuist]

Here is what I look for:

1. Do not like Maidens.... I want a horse that has already shown they know how to get to the wire first;

2. I like horses with lifetime conditions... the NW2L & NW3L;

3. I like horses that will get their yearly conditions back in a short period of time... NW1Y.... NW2D(usually six months);

4. I prefer to claim at the mid range level ($7,500, $10,000, $12,500);

5. I am not looking to claim in order to win an allowance race I am looking to win one or two races as that can get you out of the horse;

6. I give a horse 90 days. If the horse has not paid for their monthly cost within 90 days then drop them to the bottom and let someone else have a shot.... or find them a home... it is the monthly nut that will kill you not what you paid for them.... what you paid for the horse is a sunk cost;

7. I do not rely on 'track information'. I do not want my trainer asking around about a horse if we have decided we like a horse. I believe that most track information is misinformation. I would not want my jock telling other outfits about my horses therefore I will not ask them about other outfits horses (door swings both ways);

8. I look for decent current form... a horse that is competitive 4th beaten 5 lengths you have something to work with.... 8th beaten 18 lengths no thank you... my trainers are good but not miracle workers;

9. I do not claim off the Super Trainers;

10. I like to claim horses that have only run on Synthetic but show decent works on the dirt (Woodbine angle here.... training track is dirt). Wait the jail time take them to a softer circuit and let them go on the dirt;

11. You have to watch replays... it is a must;

12. The final decision on whether to drop rests with the trainer;

I agree the trainer shouldn't be "asking around" about a horse. The trainer should be out in the early morning to observe the horse in its works and gallops. If they won't, they are lazy and should be replaced.

[Mineshaft]

Asking around about the horse is the norm where im from and im pretty sure at other tracks it is also.





I like to claim from trainers and owners who are in love with there horses. Its easy to pick out which owners and trainers are in love with there horses. Claim from them, run the horse back for the same price, they claim it back and you just borrowed the horse for 3 weeks.

[onefast99]

Asking around about the horse is the norm where im from and im pretty sure at other tracks it is also.





I like to claim from trainers and owners who are in love with there horses. Its easy to pick out which owners and trainers are in love with there horses. Claim from them, run the horse back for the same price, they claim it back and you just borrowed the horse for 3 weeks.
You look for the previous connections ability to do what was/is right for the horse. Low level cheap trainers aren't the ones you claim from. You also look at the previous ownership are they considered a player at that particular track or did they send one over to lose it? Taking a horse that was previously re-claimed by the former owners is also a positive as long as it wasn't a suspicious drop. The one item no one mentioned is a horse who is hot in the claim box is the one you want. As long as you aren't the last one to own it!

[Cannon shell]

I agree the trainer shouldn't be "asking around" about a horse. The trainer should be out in the early morning to observe the horse in its works and gallops. If they won't, they are lazy and should be replaced.
Well ok then

[Robert Goren]

I would not own a race if they held a gun to my head. That said, You should look at horses from a trainer who is known to have sound horses that are ready or close to ready to run. At NYRA race tracks, it appears that a fair number of low % trainers win next out after taking a horse from Linda Rice. You would want the actual numbers before investing. If true ,it is a trainer like her that I would be looking at if I was looking to claim a horse. The last thing I would want is what could be fast horse that is out of shape. A lot of thing can go wrong with large bills while the horse is being whipped into shape. JMO

[Valuist]

You look for the previous connections ability to do what was/is right for the horse. Low level cheap trainers aren't the ones you claim from.

Northerndancer said it earlier in the thread: don't claim off supertrainers. You are far more likely to move a horse up from a cheap trainer than from a high percentage winning trainer.

[Valuist]

Well ok then

Chuck-

I don't believe its asking too much to ask a trainer to check out a horse in its morning gallops. Its not like its a 6 month project. Are you implying that's an unreasonable request?

[Mineshaft]

Chuck-

I don't believe its asking too much to ask a trainer to check out a horse in its morning gallops. Its not like its a 6 month project. Are you implying that's an unreasonable request?



All the trainer has to do is ask other trainers about the horse. Other trainers might talk they might not, never know till you ask. Ask a groom they have friends that are grooms those grooms are in the clicque. They will know.

[Cannon shell]

Chuck-

I don't believe its asking too much to ask a trainer to check out a horse in its morning gallops. Its not like its a 6 month project. Are you implying that's an unreasonable request?
No I was actually just laughing about the "if they wont they are lazy and should be fired" comment. Just thought that it was funny that that was the only conclusion that he came too lol.

It isnt always easy to check one out in the morning. First off you might have no idea what he/she looks like. There are no mugshots on equibase. 2nd you don't know when they train, could be anytime between 5:30 and 10:15 and most trainers have their own horses to look after. Sure you get to know some of the other trainers horses but usually the ones that train really well or really poorly.

I claimed a horse off a guy once that I only knew what they looked like because I was at the starting gate schooling a horse when the horse in question was. At the gate you have to give the name of the horse. I saw a big, good looking horse from a trainer that I knew was a good guy to claim off of. He showed up in the entries 2 months later in a maiden 30 or 50 (it was a while ago and I cant remember). Dropped a claim, he ran 2nd and I believe he won next time out. If I hadn't seen him in person I doubt I'd have claimed him 1st time out.

[Cannon shell]

IMO most horses nowdays are claimed off of sheets or speed figures. I'd guess most trainers that tell the owners they have seen the horse to claim in the morning are stretching the truth.

[proximity]

IMO most horses nowdays are claimed off of sheets or speed figures. I'd guess most trainers that tell the owners they have seen the horse to claim in the morning are stretching the truth.

back in my formative years at penn national, the cathy mac stable was always up in the clubhouse with the ragozin sheets. they used the sheets to make some excellent claims and ended up having both the top sprinter and router on the grounds. they were one of the first clients of tim kreiser and I think owner bob derr had some with kreiser too?

eventually they broke out into some other non-claiming ownership ventures (Timonium (?) sale, big shipment from bay meadows....) that didn't do nearly as well, and later they were unfortunately convicted of race fixing. however, in their prime they were great at using the ragozin sheets to make claims. had they stayed solely with that specialty......

[Cannon shell]

back in my formative years at penn national, the cathy mac stable was always up in the clubhouse with the ragozin sheets. they used the sheets to make some excellent claims and ended up having both the top sprinter and router on the grounds. they were one of the first clients of tim kreiser and I think owner bob derr had some with kreiser too?

eventually they broke out into some other non-claiming ownership ventures (Timonium (?) sale, big shipment from bay meadows....) that didn't do nearly as well, and later they were unfortunately convicted of race fixing. however, in their prime they were great at using the ragozin sheets to make claims. had they stayed solely with that specialty......
Imagine the days when Ragozin and Beyer had figures and the vast majority of people betting didn't or were using the old DRF figure?
Kreiser seems to have the magic touch now anyway.