Protective Claims

[DigitalDownsJoe]

I had a hard time finding this info online, and I was wondering if anyone had an idea of how this works. How does it work when people when 2 trainers from the same connections both put claims on a horse. Or if a trainer knows his horse is being claimed, are their rules that prohibit someone within connections to place a claim to keep the horse in house.(Like a friend trainer and then moving the horse back to the original barn. I was wondering if there is dirty deals etc that go on? Thanks in advance.

[Stillriledup]

It happens, Found this in the CHRB stewards rulings about a month ago.

Not "SAY"ing this was dirty dealing, probably just an honest mistake, but there is a chance people who want to keep a horse will use other owners to keep stuff in the same barn.


RESCINDED CLAIM
Following the running of the third race, we were informed by the paymaster that there was a potential irregularity with one of the claims in for the winner, #1 Streets of Heaven. That horse had two claims in for him, both under trainer Jorge Periban. The two ownerships were SAY Racing and 702 Farms. The original owner was James Shenouda, who we learned was partners in several horses with 702 Farms. We rescinded the 702 Farms claim and let the SAY Racing (a completely separate interest) stand because the horse was still in the receiving barn for testing. The matter was referred to the CHRB for investigation.

[Mineshaft]

I had a hard time finding this info online, and I was wondering if anyone had an idea of how this works. How does it work when people when 2 trainers from the same connections both put claims on a horse. Or if a trainer knows his horse is being claimed, are their rules that prohibit someone within connections to place a claim to keep the horse in house.(Like a friend trainer and then moving the horse back to the original barn. I was wondering if there is dirty deals etc that go on? Thanks in advance.






All the time......

[Mineshaft]

Im sure only one owner can put in for a horse with one trainer. You cant use 2 trainers to try and claim a horse at least you cant do it where im at.

[Striker]

More than a few times when I notice that a horse is claimed, and then ends up running for the same connections next out, which means he was sold back to the original connections, the trainer claims the horse for himself.

[northerndancer]

Each racing jurisdiction has rules governing claims.

In a few jurisdictions if a trainer wants to put multiple claims in on a horse for different owners then those outfits of the trainer have a 'shake' for that particular trainer. The owner who wins that shake is then allowed to put in the claim on that horse. This limits the number of claims to one on any given horse for a particular trainer. An owner can only put one claim in for a given horse. An owner is not allowed to have multiple trainers put in a claim for a given horse.

In most jurisdictions the ownership on a horse can not change for 30 days after a claim. Therefore if the horse is claimed it must run under the ownership of the claiming owner for at least 30 days. On the 31st day the claiming owner has the legal right to transfer any or all of the interest in the horse via a private sale.

In most jurisdictions a horse can change between trainers at any point in time. There is no 30 day rule for claimed horses as it pertains to trainers.

Therefore what you will see quite often is a horse claimed and if it runs back within 30 days it maybe under the same trainer as when it was claimed but different owners. If outside 30 days it could very well be same owners and same trainer as the day the horse was claimed.

[tbwinner]

"Safety claim" -- trainer drops horse in for tag because needs purse money and has buddy claim it under his name and "gives"/sells horse back to original trainer... Happens a lot... Like Striker says you can see this happen when a trainer claims it under his own name, and then it reappears next out with a claim tag claimed FROM Trainer A/Trainer A and still starting for Trainer A. Forms don't show private sales.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I detest protection claims and have cheesed people off in the past by letting them know as much. Not only is it just deceptive in any number of ways, it's basically theft a lot of the time and compromises the integrity of the inherent mechanism that claiming prices employ to create class distinctions. Guys that spend all meet feeding their shitters and finally get into that non-winners of the year that they have a good shot in - except for the horse that is dropping from two tiers up and has four protection claims in on it - is getting robbed. The whole point of claiming prices is to keep like talents together and create some semblance of class division. When you get to run in a spot that you can't possibly get beat in and you don't have to worry about losing your horse, the whole thing is ****ed up. But people seem to think that it is their God given right to thieve like this from trainers that are risking their horse and are in the right race and nobody in their right mind should have a problem with it. Spend some money and get an allowance runner if you're too much of a puss to run your horse either where it should be or where it might be claimed. Circumventing the whole principle is for people that don't have the heart for the game.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Well said JHSmith...as usual.

[green80]

"Safety claim" -- trainer drops horse in for tag because needs purse money and has buddy claim it under his name and "gives"/sells horse back to original trainer... Happens a lot... Like Striker says you can see this happen when a trainer claims it under his own name, and then it reappears next out with a claim tag claimed FROM Trainer A/Trainer A and still starting for Trainer A. Forms don't show private sales.

according to the rules of racing in this state and many others "a claimed horse may not remain tn the care or custody of the owner or trainer from which it was claimed"

[onefast99]

according to the rules of racing in this state and many others "a claimed horse may not remain tn the care or custody of the owner or trainer from which it was claimed"
You are absolutely correct. If a trainer or owner is found to have tampered with the claim box by manipulating the outcome(in states where rules exist like NY and NJ and Fl) they can be fined or suspended or both. There are loopholes in the claiming system and many figure them out to their advantage on a daily basis!

[tbwinner]

according to the rules of racing in this state and many others "a claimed horse may not remain tn the care or custody of the owner or trainer from which it was claimed"

This is the case everywhere yes on the books. but a lot of times horses go back to the original barn as nothing happened and then the paperwork is put through 30 days later (or after the restrictive period has passed) changing the ownership. Racing associations/racetracks turn a blind eye to this...