NTRA tourneys

[Valuist]

Are these a bit misleading? $30k in prize money? Here's the breakdown:

top two: berths into the NTRA championship next January and cash payoffs of $2000 for the winner and $1000 for 2nd. Ok fine.

3rd and 4th: $400 travel voucher and entrance fees ($500 value) into the Canterbury tournament.

5th thru 12: $400 travel voucher and entrance fees ($330 value) into the Woodbine tournament.

Does one get an option of taking the cash value or do they have to take the berths into the other tourneys? Nothing against Toronto; I'm sure its a nice city, but I certainly would prefer to take cash over entrance into their tourney.

[thaskalos]

Are these a bit misleading? $30k in prize money? Here's the breakdown:

top two: berths into the NTRA championship next January and cash payoffs of $2000 for the winner and $1000 for 2nd. Ok fine.

3rd and 4th: $400 travel voucher and entrance fees ($500 value) into the Canterbury tournament.

5th thru 12: $400 travel voucher and entrance fees ($330 value) into the Woodbine tournament.

Does one get an option of taking the cash value or do they have to take the berths into the other tourneys? Nothing against Toronto; I'm sure its a nice city, but I certainly would prefer to take cash over entrance into their tourney.
If there is no option to take the cash...then where is the $30K prize money?

But then...there is a lot of misdirection in this game.

Who can forget when they used to declare at some tracks that the superfecta paid something like $120,000 for $2...when there was really only about $15K in the whole superfecta pool.

[Valuist]

I saw in the rules that if one qualifies but does not travel to the tournament for which they won entrance fees and travel, all prize money must be returned. So no option of taking cash equivalent.

[Stillriledup]

If there is no option to take the cash...then where is the $30K prize money?

But then...there is a lot of misdirection in this game.

Who can forget when they used to declare at some tracks that the superfecta paid something like $120,000 for $2...when there was really only about $15K in the whole superfecta pool.

TVG continues to display the TWO DOLLAR price on bets that are basically "mandatory" like the Jackpot Pick 6 pools at Monmouth (for example). Why would you post a 2 dollar price when the jist of the bet is to bet it for a dime?

[Rutgers]

Who can forget when they used to declare at some tracks that the superfecta paid something like $120,000 for $2...when there was really only about $15K in the whole superfecta pool.



Tracks should post their payouts based the wager amount they used to calculate the payout. Posting the payoffs in any other denomination would be and is deceiving. If the payout was determined based on a $2 wager amount, that is what should be posted, even if less then $2 was wagered on the winning outcome.

As a side note,

In most cases, it is to the advantage to the players that the tracks use a base wager of $2.00 as opposed to the smaller amount. (I say most because in NY there may be some cases where it wouldn't be true because of the sliding breakage rate. But even in NY in most cases it still holds true.)

For example, use a superfecta pool of $10,000 after takeout. Assume their was a total of $12 wagered on the winning ticket. Using a $2.00 based wager, you divide $10,000 by 6 and get $1,666.66. After breakage the payout for $2 becomes $1,666.60. (with 36 cents going to the track in breakage). Dividing $1,660.60 by 20 to get a dime payout of $83.33.

Using the same size pool after takeout of $10,000 but calculating the payout based on dime wagers results in a pre-breakage amount of $83.33 (10,000/120). After breakage, the payout is only $83.20 or 13 cents less. Now instead of the players as a whole losing 36 cents in breakage they are losing $15.60 in breakage. ($.13 x 120)

If you are going to complain about deceptive payout reporting, you should complain about TVG using “pays $2.00” when they really mean “refund.” “Pays” implies takeout was apply, “refund” means no takeout was taken and wagered amount are being returned. Most jurisdiction have rules requiring at least a $2.10 or $2.20 payoff, thus “pays $2.00” is illegal in most places.

[thaskalos]

Tracks should post their payouts based the wager amount they used to calculate the payout. Posting the payoffs in any other denomination would be and is deceiving. If the payout was determined based on a $2 wager amount, that is what should be posted, even if less then $2 was wagered on the winning outcome.

As a side note,

In most cases, it is to the advantage to the players that the tracks use a base wager of $2.00 as opposed to the smaller amount. (I say most because in NY there may be some cases where it wouldn't be true because of the sliding breakage rate. But even in NY in most cases it still holds true.)

For example, use a superfecta pool of $10,000 after takeout. Assume their was a total of $12 wagered on the winning ticket. Using a $2.00 based wager, you divide $10,000 by 6 and get $1,666.66. After breakage the payout for $2 becomes $1,666.60. (with 36 cents going to the track in breakage). Dividing $1,660.60 by 20 to get a dime payout of $83.33.

Using the same size pool after takeout of $10,000 but calculating the payout based on dime wagers results in a pre-breakage amount of $83.33 (10,000/120). After breakage, the payout is only $83.20 or 13 cents less. Now instead of the players as a whole losing 36 cents in breakage they are losing $15.60 in breakage. ($.13 x 120)

If you are going to complain about deceptive payout reporting, you should complain about TVG using “pays $2.00” when they really mean “refund.” “Pays” implies takeout was apply, “refund” means no takeout was taken and wagered amount are being returned. Most jurisdiction have rules requiring at least a $2.10 or $2.20 payoff, thus “pays $2.00” is illegal in most places.

I disagree!

I don't care what wager amount the track used to calculate the payout...they should not be declaring that the superfecta paid $120,000 for $2 -- when there was only an eighth of that in the superfecta pool. You cannot pay out more than you have...

[raybo]

TVG continues to display the TWO DOLLAR price on bets that are basically "mandatory" like the Jackpot Pick 6 pools at Monmouth (for example). Why would you post a 2 dollar price when the jist of the bet is to bet it for a dime?

The $2 bet gets the full payout, the dime only gets 1/20th of that full payout. Some tracks do post the dime payout by the way.