The King of Foreign Policy

[JustRalph]

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/07/07/King-of-the-foreign-policy-fumble

I know, it's a conservative Breitbart site......blah blah blah.....

But it's all true.......

[mostpost]

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/07/07/King-of-the-foreign-policy-fumble

I know, it's a conservative Breitbart site......blah blah blah.....

But it's all true.......
From your article.
Let's take stock: Egypt is in flames, and both sides of the bubbling civil war hate Barack Obama and his foreign policy team.
To begin with Egypt is not in flames. It has been a relatively peaceful power transition. As for both sides hating Barack Obama and his foreign policy team, aren't these the same idiots-among many other idiots-who were claiming Obama was setting up Morsi as an Islamic fundamentalist dictator. If Obama is supporting Morsi, them why would the Muslim Brotherhood hate him. On the other hand I have not heard any hate speech about Obama from the opposition. It's real easy to write an opinion piece when your opinion does not have to be backed up by the facts.

[mostpost]

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/07/07/King-of-the-foreign-policy-fumble

I know, it's a conservative Breitbart site......blah blah blah.....

But it's all true.......
More from your silly little article.

Syria is a quagmire where Obama's declared policies will put American weapons in the hands of people who wave the black flag of al-Qaeda,
Al Qaeda is a small part of the opposition forces and no part of their command structure. Apparently we should support the Assad regime because he was always such a good friend to America and never financed terrorist groups. Rule #1 in composing a Breitbart opinion piece. Lie, Lie, Lie.

[JustRalph]

Ask the thirty dead people and their families if it has been "relatively peaceful"

[newtothegame]

Try 75 and counting Ralph......

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2356549/Egypt-uprising-death-toll-reaches-75-new-militant-group-arms-brands-military-coup-war-Islam.html

[mostpost]

Ask the thirty dead people and their families if it has been "relatively peaceful"
110,600 dead as the result of our "regime change" in Iraq. Close to 90,000 dead in the Syrian civil war. I will stand by my "Relatively peaceful" comment.

Asking dead people anything is an exercise in futility.

[mostpost]

Try 75 and counting Ralph......

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2356549/Egypt-uprising-death-toll-reaches-75-new-militant-group-arms-brands-military-coup-war-Islam.html
As is typical, you and JustRalph pile on to the least important part of my post. Address the other parts; that there is no hatred of the USA from either of the main sides in Egypt. That Al Qaeda is an insignificant part of the Syrian rebels or that Assad was never our friend to begin with. That 9/11/2012 was never anything more than a made up Republican fantasy. That Europe is concerned over NSA spying but not "convulsed with rage."

I did read that German trust of the United States has fallen until it is now fairly low. In fact it has fallen so far that it is now near what it was in George Bush's day.

I am not even going to mention that it is not Obama's policies that have turned us into a nation of part time waiters and waitresses. I am pretty sure that had more to do with the policies of encouraging companies to move overseas and the policy of destroying unions and the policy of encouraging monopolies and the policy of rewarding vulture capitalists. Oops! I guess I did mention it.

The column linked by JR was kind of a paint by the numbers column. Except in this case he just selected-or maybe they were auto selected-from a list of rightwing talking points.

[JustRalph]

No, they just hate Obama. See the pics in this thread

http://paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104481


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ywpwtf0tt0c/UdItUBg6c1I/AAAAAAABNQ8/Xpn0SP8FSDw/s600/130701-obama-egypt-050.jpg

[PaceAdvantage]

That 9/11/2012 was never anything more than a made up Republican fantasy.What fantasy is that? The one that said electing Obama would bring a radical shift in world public perception of the USA? The one that said electing Obama would bring all this wonderful change that wouldn't see things like a US Ambassador murdered and dragged through the streets?

That kind of fantasy? You're right about that. That shit never came to pass. They hate us now as much or even more...you guys certainly spun quite the fantasy fairly tale by trying to convince people things would be different.

If anything, Obama's ineffectual foreign policy has made things worse. Instead of AT LEAST being feared, we are now openly laughed at, mocked and ignored.

Wonderful change...

[JustRalph]

"Relatively Peaceful" huh?

50 killed in the last few hours. That's 50 since you wrote your post Mostie......

Keep living in your dream world



If anything, Obama's ineffectual foreign policy has made things worse. Instead of AT LEAST being feared, we are now openly laughed at, mocked and ignored.
Wonderful change...

Amen!

[Tom]

Just disgusting how some people have so little regard for human lives.
But then, they do kill their babies, so I guess not a great leap.

[Robert Goren]

"Relatively Peaceful" huh?

50 killed in the last few hours. That's 50 since you wrote your post Mostie......

Keep living in your dream world




Amen! Just exactly would you have Obama do in Egypt? Not what he should have done last year or 2 years ago, but what he should he do today. It is your turn to go on record.

[Tom]

He should announce that it was indeed a military coupe and cease all foreign aid, as he is required to to do by law. Then shut about who has to go.

[NJ Stinks]

What fantasy is that? The one that said electing Obama would bring a radical shift in world public perception of the USA? The one that said electing Obama would bring all this wonderful change that wouldn't see things like a US Ambassador murdered and dragged through the streets?

That kind of fantasy? You're right about that. That shit never came to pass. They hate us now as much or even more...you guys certainly spun quite the fantasy fairly tale by trying to convince people things would be different.

If anything, Obama's ineffectual foreign policy has made things worse. Instead of AT LEAST being feared, we are now openly laughed at, mocked and ignored.

Wonderful change...

I guess in your fairytale of a world Iraqi's were just going to forget about the bloodshed caused by Bush's unprovoked war.

Obama "made things worse"? If you really believe what you posted, you are 100% delusional.

[mostpost]

What fantasy is that? The one that said electing Obama would bring a radical shift in world public perception of the USA? The one that said electing Obama would bring all this wonderful change that wouldn't see things like a US Ambassador murdered and dragged through the streets?

That kind of fantasy? You're right about that. That shit never came to pass. They hate us now as much or even more...you guys certainly spun quite the fantasy fairly tale by trying to convince people things would be different.

If anything, Obama's ineffectual foreign policy has made things worse. Instead of AT LEAST being feared, we are now openly laughed at, mocked and ignored.

Wonderful change...
The Republican fantasy on Benghazi had several elements. One, the fantasy that anyone above a certain level at the State Department had anything to do with the security levels at out diplomatic missions in Libya. Two, the fantasy the administration did nothing to help the people at the Benghazi compound while the attacks were taking place. Three, the fantasy that the security team at the CIA annex were delayed in responding to the attack and that air support was ordered to stand down.

Those are all great fantasies, but here is an even better one. From you above:
things like a US Ambassador murdered and dragged through the streets?
Stevens was alive when he was found by Libyans who were not involved in the attack. He was driven to the hospital where he died. Of course, it is much more emotionally satisfying for you to say he was dragged through the streets. It gives you license to hate Obama all the more. Never mind that it is a lie.

[mostpost]

Just disgusting how some people have so little regard for human lives.
But then, they do kill their babies, so I guess not a great leap.
The most ignorant and despicable statement by the most ignorant and despicable poster on this board.

[JustRalph]

Just exactly would you have Obama do in Egypt? Not what he should have done last year or 2 years ago, but what he should he do today. It is your turn to go on record.

He should do as Tom says. Stop aid.

He should then admit he's been a fool. Wrong on almost every foreign policy issue in the last 4 yrs and resign. Head for Hawaii and begin his life of luxury.

Then Biden can be run out on a rail

[mostpost]

Just exactly would you have Obama do in Egypt? Not what he should have done last year or 2 years ago, but what he should he do today. It is your turn to go on record.

The problem is not in what Obama is doing now in Egypt, or what he was doing two years ago, or even in what George Bush did. (Although what Bush did made a bad situation worse. The problem goes back almost seventy years.

After World War Two, the western allies, decided that the Jewish people should have a homeland. This was a noble idea, considering the horrors of the Holocaust. The problem was they decided to locate this homeland in an area that had already been occupied by the Palestinians for hundreds of years. Instead of negotiating with Arab states in the region and trying to work out a solution where both an Israeli and a Palestinian state would be created, they pretty much dictated the establishment of an Israeli state with the Palestinians left out in the cold.

Fast forward to 2001. A long history of terrorism by certain Arab groups has culminated in the attacks on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon and the failed attack on the White House. Blame has been placed-accurately-on a group known as Al Qaeda headquartered in Afghanistan. The mission is begun to track down Al Qaeda and its leader Osama bin Laden. This is a mission which has the backing of most of the world-even moderate Arabs.

But just as this mission is coming to a successful conclusion, just as bin Laden is in our grasp, the mission is terminated and our troops are sent to Iraq. Iraq, which has no weapons of mass destruction and no link to the 9-11 attacks. Because of this, 100,000-1,000,000 Iraqis die.

And they wonder why Obama is having trouble fulfilling his promise to make Arabs like us. :rolleyes:

[JustRalph]

Classic misdirection

Obama chose to dip his nose into Egypt and depose Mubarak. He was warned that the MB would take over. Hillary egged him on.

Now the country is in chaos and Obama is to blame. The people of Egypt are dying in the streets while carrying anti Obama signs

So much for the chosen one who will heal the world.

Anybody who bought into his bullshit should be forced to wear a Scarlett letter "B" for the rest of their days

[rastajenk]

I think the point is that The O wanted the job because he sold himself as the fixer. He could fix the economy; he could fix America's place in the world; he could end partisanship in Washington, and stop the rising seas. ( :D at that last one.) And he hasn't. If he had run on a platform of a) the bureaurcracy is too big to know everything that's going on b) the economy is too out of whack to get right very soon c) Bush-era War on Terror tactics would continue and d) people in the Middle East will not work with us no matter what, then, he would have been more honest, and probably less successful (in winning elections). It's too late in his term to keep blaming Bush or Reagan or Nixon or Truman. If he's not responsible for anything, who needs him?

[Robert Goren]

He ran as "I am not the other guy". Face it. A majority of Americans didn't want what the GOP was selling. Remember the same people who predicting a Romney win if not a landside are the same people repeating over and over again what a lousy job Obama is doing. They have major credibility problems because they have miss led the public so many times. Obama would beat any republican if the election was held again today.

[Valuist]

The Republican fantasy on Benghazi had several elements. One, the fantasy that anyone above a certain level at the State Department had anything to do with the security levels at out diplomatic missions in Libya. Two, the fantasy the administration did nothing to help the people at the Benghazi compound while the attacks were taking place. Three, the fantasy that the security team at the CIA annex were delayed in responding to the attack and that air support was ordered to stand down.

Those are all great fantasies, but here is an even better one. From you above:

Stevens was alive when he was found by Libyans who were not involved in the attack. He was driven to the hospital where he died. Of course, it is much more emotionally satisfying for you to say he was dragged through the streets. It gives you license to hate Obama all the more. Never mind that it is a lie.

You're so delusional there's no point even in acknowledging your existance anymore.

[mostpost]

Classic misdirection

Obama chose to dip his nose into Egypt and depose Mubarak. He was warned that the MB would take over. Hillary egged him on.

Now the country is in chaos and Obama is to blame. The people of Egypt are dying in the streets while carrying anti Obama signs

So much for the chosen one who will heal the world.

Anybody who bought into his bullshit should be forced to wear a Scarlett letter "B" for the rest of their days
Obama opposed Mubarek???? I missed the part where Obama sent troops to Egypt to throw Mubarek out of power. What I remember is millions of Egyptians gathering in Tarik square and the military not interfering with the demonstrations. As far as I can tell, Obama merely urged Mubarek to recognize the reality of the situation which was that Mubarek was not going to stay in power.

Perhaps it should have been obvious that the Muslim Brotherhood would take power, but that is moot. Mubarek would not, could not survive. Urging him to step down was damage control in a difficult situation.

[mostpost]

You're so delusional there's no point even in acknowledging your existance anymore.
My opinions on this matter are based on two sources; the ARB report and the House committee consolidated report. It is not based on statements by politicians or commentators. It is based on information I have read myself in those reports. Now you may be able to question the ARB report which was commisioned by the State Department, but the House report was conducted and published by the Republicans in the House. Even that report confirms everything I said.

[Tom]

Inquiring minds want to know......

[JustRalph]

Here's "relatively peaceful" for you!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/egypt-violence-gang-throws-rivals-2034262

http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article2034216.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Egypt-2034216.jpg

[mostpost]

Here's "relatively peaceful" for you!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/egypt-violence-gang-throws-rivals-2034262

http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article2034216.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Egypt-2034216.jpg
Obviously things have deteriorated recently, but the situation was relatively peaceful up to the point of Morsi's arrest. Now, most of the violence can be traced to the Muslim brotherhood and the supporters of Morsi.

You're one of those who was saying Mubarek should stay and Morsi should not be allowed to take power. Now you are saying that removing Morsi from power would be a big mistake. And I am sure you are clueless as to the inconsistency there. Your only consistency is in thinking that everything Obama does is wrong. If Obama this week says "Less filling," you will be sure to champion the case for "Tastes great." In, next week, Obama says "Tastes great," you will certainly be espousing "Less filling."

[johnhannibalsmith]

... Your only consistency is in thinking that everything Obama does is wrong. If Obama this week says "Less filling," you will be sure to champion the case for "Tastes great." In, next week, Obama says "Tastes great," you will certainly be espousing "Less filling."


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Couldn't have picked a better guy to deliver a lecture on blind rejection/support of anything/everything Obama does.

[JustRalph]

I never said that Morsi should be removed or that he should stay......

[PaceAdvantage]

I guess in your fairytale of a world Iraqi's were just going to forget about the bloodshed caused by Bush's unprovoked war.

Obama "made things worse"? If you really believe what you posted, you are 100% delusional.He didn't make things worse? Russia and China respect us more today than when Bush was president? Really?

You can see how much the Libyans respect us vs. GWB. GWB was able to get the Libyans to give up all of their nuclear technology.

Under Obama, they murder our ambassador and drag his body through the street.

That's not worse? Just who is delusional here?

What's going on in Afghanistan by the way? How come news coverage on that basically stopped the minute Obama took office? Despite the fact that US soldiers continued to die on a regular basis? Oh I know, we are drawing down troops and plan to be out next year, but how's it going over there? What's been happening the past couple of years in the place where liberals would say we were JUSTIFIED to invade...

No more shots of flag-draped caskets that were SO important to show when Bush was president?

Don't make me laugh. Delusional...look in the mirror...

[PaceAdvantage]

The Republican fantasy on Benghazi had several elements. One, the fantasy that anyone above a certain level at the State Department had anything to do with the security levels at out diplomatic missions in Libya. Two, the fantasy the administration did nothing to help the people at the Benghazi compound while the attacks were taking place. Three, the fantasy that the security team at the CIA annex were delayed in responding to the attack and that air support was ordered to stand down.

Those are all great fantasies, but here is an even better one. From you above:

Stevens was alive when he was found by Libyans who were not involved in the attack. He was driven to the hospital where he died. Of course, it is much more emotionally satisfying for you to say he was dragged through the streets. It gives you license to hate Obama all the more. Never mind that it is a lie.Talk about delusional. My post had nothing to do with Republicans or anything like that. It had to do with the murder of a US Ambassador. Nothing more, nothing less.

And even your beloved SNOPES can't confirm your little spin of things. Nor can they deny that he was raped before being murdered.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/stevens.asp

I particularly love this part of the snopes coverage:

The chaos is palpable, as a throng of Libyans frantically scramble outside a damaged building. Suddenly, a man's body is carried from inside toward an open window - and the frenzy and sounds become even more urgent, more emotional.

"Get him out!" some yell.

After joyfully discovering the man - a foreigner, apparently, a voice in the crowd says - is alive after he's dragged out, fresh screams ring out.

"Allahu Akbar," which translates from Arabic to "God is great," men in the crowd shout. Others raise fists to the sky, seemingly rejoicing that this man has somehow survived.

According to the man who shot the video, the wounded man shown is Chris Stevens, the late U.S. ambassador to Libya.Yeah, I'm sure those yelling Allahu Akbar were yelling that in joy that this American had somehow survived...are these guys kidding me?

[JustRalph]

As a side note, many of the weapons used against the Embassy were reported to have been obtained from Quaddaffi loyalists when Obama had him dethroned.

Strike 2..........

[mostpost]

He didn't make things worse? Russia and China respect us more today than when Bush was president? Really?

You can see how much the Libyans respect us vs. GWB. GWB was able to get the Libyans to give up all of their nuclear technology.

Under Obama, they murder our ambassador and drag his body through the street.

That's not worse? Just who is delusional here?

What's going on in Afghanistan by the way? How come news coverage on that basically stopped the minute Obama took office? Despite the fact that US soldiers continued to die on a regular basis? Oh I know, we are drawing down troops and plan to be out next year, but how's it going over there? What's been happening the past couple of years in the place where liberals would say we were JUSTIFIED to invade...

No more shots of flag-draped caskets that were SO important to show when Bush was president?

Don't make me laugh. Delusional...look in the mirror...

Stop saying they dragged his body through the streets!!!!!!

[PaceAdvantage]

Why? It has never been proven that they didn't...has it?

[PaceAdvantage]

And does it matter whether they did or not?

This is where you go off the rails...like it matters whether you can prove whether they dragged him through the streets...as if that changes anything...waste your time on the really important suff i see... :bang:

[JustRalph]

Draw your own conclusions

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/09/islamists-drag-dead-body-of-us-ambassador-in-the-streets/

Hillary said they "dragged him to the hospital"

[mostpost]

Talk about delusional. My post had nothing to do with Republicans or anything like that. It had to do with the murder of a US Ambassador. Nothing more, nothing less.

And even your beloved SNOPES can't confirm your little spin of things. Nor can they deny that he was raped before being murdered.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/stevens.asp

I particularly love this part of the snopes coverage:

Yeah, I'm sure those yelling Allahu Akbar were yelling that in joy that this American had somehow survived...are these guys kidding me?
The story of the alleged rape started with a Lebanese news agency which claimed to quote a report on the attack from Agence France Presse (AFP).
But AFP said they printed no such report and the Lebanese report was a complete fabrication.

Further more the doctors who treated Stevens at the hospital said he died of smoke inhalation and had no external injuries.

[mostpost]

Yeah, I'm sure those yelling Allahu Akbar were yelling that in joy that this American had somehow survived...are these guys kidding me?
Your bigotry is showing here. The attitude that all Arabs/Muslims are terrorists who hate Americans. The truth is most of them are as horrified by actions like the attack on the embassy as we are. But believing as you do is necessary to justify your prejudice. So go for it.

[Tom]

Further more the doctors who treated Stevens at the hospital said he died of smoke inhalation and had no external injuries.
And you believe them? :lol:

[Tom]

The truth is most of them are as horrified by actions like the attack on the embassy as we are.

Where is the proof of that?
You do a poll? Hire hcap?
How do you know?

[mostpost]

Draw your own conclusions

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/09/islamists-drag-dead-body-of-us-ambassador-in-the-streets/

Hillary said they "dragged him to the hospital"
Gateway Pundit is your go to source? You might as well have linked to The Enquirer or World News Daily. There is no point in arguing further with you.

[delayjf]

I think those photos pretty much speak for themselves. Never in my life have I ever heard of anyone being "dragged" to a hospital by a mob for emergency treatment.

What's next Hillary? Where they tossing that man off the bldg to a waiting ambulance?

[NJ Stinks]

He didn't make things worse? Russia and China respect us more today than when Bush was president? Really?

You can see how much the Libyans respect us vs. GWB. GWB was able to get the Libyans to give up all of their nuclear technology.

Under Obama, they murder our ambassador and drag his body through the street.

That's not worse? Just who is delusional here?

What's going on in Afghanistan by the way? How come news coverage on that basically stopped the minute Obama took office? Despite the fact that US soldiers continued to die on a regular basis? Oh I know, we are drawing down troops and plan to be out next year, but how's it going over there? What's been happening the past couple of years in the place where liberals would say we were JUSTIFIED to invade...

No more shots of flag-draped caskets that were SO important to show when Bush was president?

Don't make me laugh. Delusional...look in the mirror...

What is your proof that China and Russia respected us more under Bush? Surely there are obvious examples that you would love to share.

Libya after the civil war was and still is a dangerous place. How GWB would have made it a safe place is something you failed to explain.

After 9/11, we were justified to go after Bin Laden in Afghanistan. We were light years more justified to bomb/invade Afghanistan than Iraq.

The soldiers' families now decide whether or not photos will be taken for the public to view. If you have a problem with that policy, what's your beef?

[JustRalph]

I think those photos pretty much speak for themselves. Never in my life have I ever heard of anyone being "dragged" to a hospital by a mob for emergency treatment.

What's next Hillary? Where they tossing that man off the bldg to a waiting ambulance?

That's why I said "draw your own conclusions"

Notice Mostie doesn't address the photos or Hillary's statement.

He Goes after the website...........I don't read Gateway pundit, but a google search revealed the photos which is all I cared about.

[JustRalph]

Libya after the civil war was and still is a dangerous place. How GWB would have made it a safe place is something you failed to explain.

You think Cheney and Bush would have ignored the Ambassador begging for more security?

Based on their commitment to security over the years, I doubt they would have ignored Stevens. You know, like Hillary did.........

[PaceAdvantage]

Your bigotry is showing here. The attitude that all Arabs/Muslims are terrorists who hate Americans. The truth is most of them are as horrified by actions like the attack on the embassy as we are. But believing as you do is necessary to justify your prejudice. So go for it.What are you talking about? You're telling me our embassy was surrounded by peace-loving Libyans? Dude, quit while you're behind...seriously...

This has nothing to do with bigotry. I'm referring to the events OF THAT NIGHT...the ATTACK on the embassy...the MURDER of a US Ambassador...

And you're going to sit there and tell me there were a significant number of peace loving Libyans shouting Allahu Akbar and praising God because Chris Stevens appeared to have survived the attack on the embassy.

Come on mostpost. Even YOU can't be that gullible...

[PaceAdvantage]

Gateway Pundit is your go to source? You might as well have linked to The Enquirer or World News Daily. There is no point in arguing further with you.Assuming the picture of Stevens lying there in the street is for real (and it is), he certainly looks dead to me...doesn't he look dead to you?

The look in the eyes is that of a dead man.

[PaceAdvantage]

What is your proof that China and Russia respected us more under Bush? Surely there are obvious examples that you would love to share.

Libya after the civil war was and still is a dangerous place. How GWB would have made it a safe place is something you failed to explain.

After 9/11, we were justified to go after Bin Laden in Afghanistan. We were light years more justified to bomb/invade Afghanistan than Iraq.

The soldiers' families now decide whether or not photos will be taken for the public to view. If you have a problem with that policy, what's your beef?It's like me asking for proof that they respect us MORE or about the same now...any obvious examples? It's my opinion. If you disagree, I could ask you to counter, but you probably won't.

I never said GWB could have made it safer. I'm saying he helped stabilize Libya after 9/11, and Obama and the rest of the world helped destabilize it...leading to the death of Chris Stevens...and Lord knows what else because the media doesn't seem to pursue obvious Obama failures like they did Bush failures.

I didn't ask about whether or not Afghanistan was justified. I asked "how's it been going the past 3-4 years since Obama has been at the helm." I used to be bombarded with daily updates on how Iraq and Afghanistan were going when Bush was president, including weekly casualty counts...soldiers were still dying at a pretty good clip under Obama, yet the media lost interest in that side of things...pretty interesting how that happens...

Did the soldiers families have a say when Bush was president? I mean, I remember reading how the American people had a right to see these things...they shouldn't be kept from public view to try and somehow sugarcoat what's going on over there...now all of a sudden, since Obama was elected, no more flag draped coffin pix...now the American people don't need to know about soldiers dying in Afghanistan on a daily, weekly, monthly basis...

You liberals have quite the racket going...I'll tell you that...talk about a fixed race...

[woodtoo]

The truth is most of them are as horrified by actions like the attack on the embassy as we are. But believing as you do is necessary to justify your prejudice. So go for it.[/QUOTE]


You are one lost, dazed and confused lost soul if you believe that for one second.But then again .......I would still nominate you as the new Ambassador to Lybia,don't worry your pretty head,Obama's got your back.:lol:

[mostpost]

It's like me asking for proof that they respect us MORE or about the same now...any obvious examples? It's my opinion. If you disagree, I could ask you to counter, but you probably won't.

I never said GWB could have made it safer. I'm saying he helped stabilize Libya after 9/11, and Obama and the rest of the world helped destabilize it...leading to the death of Chris Stevens...and Lord knows what else because the media doesn't seem to pursue obvious Obama failures like they did Bush failures.

I didn't ask about whether or not Afghanistan was justified. I asked "how's it been going the past 3-4 years since Obama has been at the helm." I used to be bombarded with daily updates on how Iraq and Afghanistan were going when Bush was president, including weekly casualty counts...soldiers were still dying at a pretty good clip under Obama, yet the media lost interest in that side of things...pretty interesting how that happens...

Did the soldiers families have a say when Bush was president? I mean, I remember reading how the American people had a right to see these things...they shouldn't be kept from public view to try and somehow sugarcoat what's going on over there...now all of a sudden, since Obama was elected, no more flag draped coffin pix...now the American people don't need to know about soldiers dying in Afghanistan on a daily, weekly, monthly basis...

You liberals have quite the racket going...I'll tell you that...talk about a fixed race...
I continue to be amazed at how you can distort and misinterpret things. What I am unsure about is whether you really don't get it or are just playing dumb to win the argument.

Pictures of flag draped coffins. Under Bush they were not allowed. If you think that was to protect the sensitivities of families you are very gullible. The whole plan under Bush was to have a war but pretend we weren't having one. No new or increased taxes to support it. No extra money spent on equipment for the troops. No pictures of dead soldiers in coffins.

The difference under Obama is that you can now take pictures of those coffins, with the permission of families involved. For awhile there were such pictures, but the news organizations figured out what you have failed to figure out. It just is not news anymore.

As to continuing, and an escalation of, casualties in Afghanistan after Obama took office, I agree that should not have taken place. But the real truth is that we should have been out of Afghanistan long before Obama took office.
In December of 2001 the Taliban forces were defeated and Osama bin Laden was trapped at Tora Bora. All we had to do was take him prisoner and leave Afghanistan. Nothing in that country was of any consequence to us.

Instead we embarked on a Don Quixote like quest against Saddam Hussein. All casualties in that war and all subsequent casualties in Afghanistan can be laid at Bush's door.

[PaceAdvantage]

It just is not news anymore.Or...Bush isn't President anymore. That's the more LIKELY answer...

It was news for the LONGEST time ALL DURING BUSH'S PRESIDENCY...

And you know how SHORT the news cycle is in this Internet age...so spare me the BS...

[PaceAdvantage]

All casualties in that war and all subsequent casualties in Afghanistan can be laid at Bush's door.Of course it can...I mean, I completely expected this stock answer from you.

But you conveniently forget that a majority of liberals on this board and in this country have continually stated that Afghanistan was the JUST war...

You can't have it both ways.

[delayjf]

All we had to do was take him prisoner and leave Afghanistan. Nothing in that country was of any consequence to us.

Hardly that simple, the Tailiban and Osama were well into Pakistan by then. It would have taken an invasion of Pakistan, and even then there were no guarantees.

[ElKabong]

"Relatively Peaceful" huh?

50 killed in the last few hours. That's 50 since you wrote your post Mostie......

Keep living in your dream world


!

Anyone with Mostie's body type, and refers to himself as a Harlem Globetrotter in any way shape or form, is definitely living in a dream world......

50 + dead and counting.

[mostpost]

Of course it can...I mean, I completely expected this stock answer from you.

But you conveniently forget that a majority of liberals on this board and in this country have continually stated that Afghanistan was the JUST war...

You can't have it both ways.
If there is such a thing as a JUST war, it was. The accurate description would be a necessary war. Necessary to capture or kill the individuals who attacked our country and killed our citizens. Changing the Afghan government was a key component of that goal. Maintaining that change was not. Attacking Iraq was not.

[rastajenk]

Regime change was a goal, but maintaining the change was not? No wonder the military doesn't respect lib leadership.

[Robert Goren]

Regime change was a goal, but maintaining the change was not? No wonder the military doesn't respect lib leadership. That is a two way street. Most liberals don't respect the military leadership. Events over the last year or two back up that lack respect. The top leadership of the military has had as many sex scandals as the congress lately. Of course the right wing bloggers that conservatives depend for news don't cover them.

[rastajenk]

A sex scandal can hardly be compared to telling young soldiers that their early, most dangerous efforts are appreciated, but in time will be in vain for lack of support. Which is exactly what The O did at West Point early in his tenure when he laid out his vision for Afghanland.

[delayjf]

Changing the Afghan government was a key component of that goal
You forget that the Taliban who aided and abetted Al Qaeda, was the Afgan government.

[JustRalph]

When do we officially get past "relatively peaceful?"

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/07/16/seven-dead-262-wounded-in-cairo-street-battle/

7 more dead 262 wounded.......

[Robert Goren]

A sex scandal can hardly be compared to telling young soldiers that their early, most dangerous efforts are appreciated, but in time will be in vain for lack of support. Which is exactly what The O did at West Point early in his tenure when he laid out his vision for Afghanland.It isn't Obama that keeps getting our troops killed by friendly fire. That would be the officers that more interested in chasing women or writing their autobiographies that doing their jobs.

[JustRalph]

To begin with Egypt is not in flames. It has been arelatively peaceful power transition. As for both sides hating Barack Obama and his foreign policy team, aren't these the same idiots-among many other idiots-who were claiming Obama was setting up Morsi as an Islamic fundamentalist dictator. If Obama is supporting Morsi, them why would the Muslim Brotherhood hate him. On the other hand I have not heard any hate speech about Obama from the opposition. It's real easy to write an opinion piece when your opinion does not have to be backed up by the facts.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/richardsalsman/2013/08/13/obamacare-will-foster-a-part-time-jobs-bonanza-for-our-limp-economy/

Hey Mostie.........300 relatively peaceful people died yesterday.........sure is going great! Your boy owns this. If we didn't have a lap dog press, Hillary would too

[Mike at A+]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/richardsalsman/2013/08/13/obamacare-will-foster-a-part-time-jobs-bonanza-for-our-limp-economy/

Hey Mostie.........300 relatively peaceful people died yesterday.........sure is going great! Your boy owns this. If we didn't have a lap dog press, Hillary would too
This is 0bama's "Arab Spring". Isn't it great??? He CAUSED all this shit.

[elysiantraveller]

This is 0bama's "Arab Spring". Isn't it great??? He CAUSED all this shit.

He didn't "cause" it... that's nonsense.

He just was terrible in his engagement after it happened. It may seem like we are arguing in semantics but we aren't. The spring was happening regardless of Obama. What he failed to do was actively address these countries individually and try to build relations and instead stood back and let them figure it out. He could have been doing what he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for but instead decided to neglect them and lose the public opinion in those countries... its actually surprising if you consider he comes from the monster Chicago PR machine.

[Mike at A+]

He didn't "cause" it... that's nonsense.

He just was terrible in his engagement after it happened. It may seem like we are arguing in semantics but we aren't. The spring was happening regardless of Obama. What he failed to do was actively address these countries individually and try to build relations and instead stood back and let them figure it out. He could have been doing what he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for but instead decided to neglect them and lose the public opinion in those countries... its actually surprising if you consider he comes from the monster Chicago PR machine.
With all due respect to your opinion, he CAUSED it. And then he made it a lot worse than it should have been.

[Robert Goren]

When the old dictators began in the "Arab Spring" fall the neo-cons of the Bush administration were falling all over them taking credit. Now that thing have gone a bit sour, they all are in witness protection.

[elysiantraveller]

With all due respect to your opinion, he CAUSED it. And then he made it a lot worse than it should have been.

How exactly did he cause the "fruit cart eruption" in Tunisia that sparked the whole thing?

This is nonsense...

Conservatives need to understand he isn't responsible for everything. He is largely responsible for the situation in Egypt when calling for an ouster and then refusing to get involved in the rebuilding of a government.

His leadership is awful and I'm well posted on here saying that but calling him responsible for the Arab Spring is simply ignorant.

[JustRalph]

https://www.google.com/search?q=obama+calls+for+mubarak+to+step+down&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

Ever heard of Google?

[elysiantraveller]

When the old dictators began in the "Arab Spring" fall the neo-cons of the Bush administration were falling all over them taking credit. Now that thing have gone a bit sour, they all are in witness protection.

I agree with the first sentence...

The second sentence though... the blame lies with the current administration.

[elysiantraveller]

https://www.google.com/search?q=obama+calls+for+mubarak+to+step+down&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

Ever heard of Google?

I don't know if this was directed at me but Egypt wasn't the only place that the Arab Spring happened.

And at the time I thought it a dumb thing to say... still do...

[Mike at A+]

How exactly did he cause the "fruit cart eruption" in Tunisia that sparked the whole thing?

This is nonsense...

Conservatives need to understand he isn't responsible for everything. He is largely responsible for the situation in Egypt when calling for an ouster and then refusing to get involved in the rebuilding of a government.

His leadership is awful and I'm well posted on here saying that but calling him responsible for the Arab Spring is simply ignorant.
Well, we can agree to disagree. You are willing to cut him some slack and I think the vacations and the golf should have stopped long ago given the condition of world affairs. And his rhetoric reeks of immaturity.

[JustRalph]

The Muslim Brohood is executing Coptic Christians and cops.......some very very bad stuff going on. Many youtubes vids that are not appropriate to post.....

But it's all relatively peaceful..........

[Jay Trotter]

Ever heard of Google?You can get anything you want to come up on google depending on how you word your quiry.

Check Wikipedia LINK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Spring) . I googled causes of Arab Spring. Read Causes. Obama's name isn't even mentioned.

At least elysiantraveller can look at things without bias. :ThmbUp:

[Mike at A+]

Wiki is not the authority on everything. They're a good source for many things but when it comes to politics they are only as good as those contributing and depending on the agenda and affiliations of those posting it can be very misleading. All I know is that I don't remember anything nearly as violent as what is commonplace in the past 4 or 5 years. I mean really, there is some disgusting shit going down in the middle east since 0bama came upon the scene. And he even got the Nobel Peace Prize. The killings, the torture, the ethnic cleansing, the bombings, the massacres of citizens. It's almost beyond belief.

[JustRalph]

You can get anything you want to come up on google depending on how you word your quiry.

Check Wikipedia LINK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Spring) . I googled causes of Arab Spring. Read Causes. Obama's name isn't even mentioned.

At least elysiantraveller can look at things without bias. :ThmbUp:

Attributing Mubarek stepping down under pressure from Obama, is not the same thing as the Arab spring. Btw, No matter the reason, Obama chose to push Mubarek aside and publicly denied that the Muslim Brotherhood would take over (Jay Carney) several times. When they did, suddenly it was a result of the glorious Democracy that had sprung forth due to Mubarek stepping down. Obama took credit for creating the glorious democracy.

You can't take credit for creating the conditions and then ignore the facts when it goes to shit. Obama gets away with it daily because we have no 4th estate anymore. They are shameless lapdogs for the admin. If this was done by a Repub it would the greatest atrocity ever committed in the history of foreign policy. But, since it's Obama it gets ignored except for the coverage of the street fighting to garner ratings.

Obama was warned about this happening. He upped the foreign aid to Egypt, handed them military weapons and blessed the government. Now he turns away while the streets turn to shit! It's further evidence that the our country has no influence and the Academically led theory of foreign policy that says the world will fall at Obama's feet is a pipe dream and fairy tale five years into the Nobel Peace Prize winners disaster of a presidency.

[Robert Goren]

Attributing Mubarek stepping down under pressure from Obama, is not the same thing as the Arab spring. Btw, No matter the reason, Obama chose to push Mubarek aside and publicly denied that the Muslim Brotherhood would take over (Jay Carney) several times. When they did, suddenly it was a result of the glorious Democracy that had sprung forth due to Mubarek stepping down. Obama took credit for creating the glorious democracy.

You can't take credit for creating the conditions and then ignore the facts when it goes to shit. Obama gets away with it daily because we have no 4th estate anymore. They are shameless lapdogs for the admin. If this was done by a Repub it would the greatest atrocity ever committed in the history of foreign policy. But, since it's Obama it gets ignored except for the coverage of the street fighting to garner ratings.

Obama was warned about this happening. He upped the foreign aid to Egypt, handed them military weapons and blessed the government. Now he turns away while the streets turn to shit! It's further evidence that the our country has no influence and the Academically led theory of foreign policy that says the world will fall at Obama's feet is a pipe dream and fairy tale five years into the Nobel Peace Prize winners disaster of a presidency.Everybody seems to forget is that Mubarek was a very sick man at the time of his fall. His health was probably the main reason he could not muster enough support to stay in power. Everybody and their dog took credit for his fall including Obama and the neo-cons. The truth is that Father Time should get the credit. If you are in your 80s and in failing health, your time as a ruthless dictator is very limited.

[elysiantraveller]

The Muslim Brohood is executing Coptic Christians and cops.......some very very bad stuff going on. Many youtubes vids that are not appropriate to post.....

But it's all relatively peaceful..........

Thanks for putting words into my mouth but radical Islam has been executing Coptic Christians for centuries now... let's not pretend this is something new...

Hell at one point "regular" Christians executed Coptic Christians... shall we blame those on Obama too?

Look Obama is ****ing terrible, I'll be the first to say it, but he simply can't take the blame for everything the right puts on him. The situation in Egypt?... yes he definitely shoulders a good portion of the blame... but for "Arab Spring?" no he didn't cause it nor was he able to deal with all of its ramifications.

We (the non-neo-conservative right) lose credibility when we attempt to heave every problem on him. Egypt, yes, that's his own manufactured problem. Arab Spring? Not so much.

[elysiantraveller]

....

I reread your post and need to apologize for tone...

I think we actually completely agree. Especially in regards to Egypt and the Arab Spring. I don't think we have any need to argue minute points.

[elysiantraveller]

You can get anything you want to come up on google depending on how you word your quiry.

Check Wikipedia LINK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Spring) . I googled causes of Arab Spring. Read Causes. Obama's name isn't even mentioned.

At least elysiantraveller can look at things without bias. :ThmbUp:

But liberals need to understand that it was a military junta and guess what... it still is...

This Administration completely failed to engage and get involved in the new transition. Obama simply called for the ouster and then sat on his hands, something he is very good at doing.

Another example of failed leadership but this time in a country that occupies a hugely strategic position on the globe... :faint: ... great leadership...

[Tom]

What about the world's perception of Obama?
Let's see what our closest neighbor and dear friend CANADA is saying......

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/56269

Obama just had to meddle in Egyptian affairs.

Politically, Obama would no doubt prefer that we not find out how badly
he screwed up this time.

[JustRalph]

I reread your post and need to apologize for tone...

I think we actually completely agree. Especially in regards to Egypt and the Arab Spring. I don't think we have any need to argue minute points.

Agreed

[Jay Trotter]

What about the world's perception of Obama?And JR's lap dog shows up right on que.:lol:

[Robert Goren]

What about the world's perception of Obama?
Let's see what our closest neighbor and dear friend CANADA is saying......

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/56269 An Op-Ed piece by a once a week right wing American blog talk show host in an Online conservative newspaper based in Canada. Proves nothing. Boxcar's ramblings in the religious thread are more creditable.

[Tom]

And JR's lap dog shows up right on que.:lol:

Two words for you, Jay.
Care to guess which?
Hint.....one of them is not birthday.

[Tom]

An Op-Ed piece by a once a week right wing American blog talk show host in an Online conservative newspaper based in Canada. Proves nothing. Boxcar's ramblings in the religious thread are more creditable.
Not supposed to PROVE anything, Bobby - it is just another OPINION by another OUTSIDER on OUR affairs. That was all it was supposed to be. I notice you did not object to OPINIONS by other Canadians in this thread. Did they PROVE anything? :D

[JustRalph]

http://freebeacon.com/obama-policies-turning-egypt-against-u-s/

"“The Obama administration’s blatant Islamist support is risking the decades-long security arrangement with Egypt,” one U.S. official told the Washington Free Beacon.

“The Egyptians are so upset they might very well give up our support,” the official added, noting the military regime is currently leaning toward seeking backing from Russia, and possibly China in the future.

The United States has provided Egypt with more than $49 billion in both military and economic assistance since 1979. Cairo was viewed as a key strategic partner in the region.

However, the 2011 ouster of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, a long-time U.S. ally, as part of the pro-democracy Arab Spring movement began a shift in U.S. policy. At that time, the Obama administration began covertly backing the Muslim Brotherhood, an anti-democratic Islamist group.

The policy shift was a marked change from past policy. During the 1970s, the United States successfully diverted Egypt’s alignment with Soviet Union under Egyptian leader Gamal Abdel Nasser by developing close ties to Nasser’s successor, Anwar Sadat, and later Mubarak."

[Mike at A+]

Hey that's a racist poster. They showed him as black just like that rodeo clown did.

[PaceAdvantage]

Osama bin Laden (in the Soviet war with Afghanistan) and Saddam Hussein (an enemy of Iran) were once our allies too...neither would ever have been classified as pro-Democratic.

Not sure why this news about the Muslim Brotherhood backing should be surprising to anyone...

The US gov't has backed the wrong horse many a time...

[JustRalph]

15 Christian Churches burned in Egypt.

I wonder why?

[Mike at A+]

15 Christian Churches burned in Egypt.

I wonder why?
Because they're Christian. DUH!

[JustRalph]

Over 600 relatively peaceful dead now........

[Robert Goren]

Over 600 relatively peaceful dead now........A lot of them members of the Muslim Brotherhood, Cry Me A River!

[PaceAdvantage]

A lot of them members of the Moslem Brotherhood, Cry Me A River!Can this be construed as a racist comment?

[Mike at A+]

Can this be construed as a racist comment?
Only if he dresses up as a rodeo clown when he says it.

[Robert Goren]

A lot of them members of the Muslim Brotherhood, Cry Me A River! Corrected name.

[PaceAdvantage]

Corrected name.The question still stands.

[elysiantraveller]

A lot of them members of the Muslim Brotherhood, Cry Me A River!

Didn't you support the Obama ouster?

[Robert Goren]

Can this be construed as a racist comment? I corrected spelling if that was your problem, otherwise I am not worry about people who want to bury us.

[Robert Goren]

Didn't you support the Obama ouster? Obama didn't oust anybody in Egypt.

[Tom]

He is funding a military coup with our tax dollars.

[JustRalph]

He is funding a military coup with our tax dollars.

Exactly right!

Oliver North was prosecuted for similar actions. So were others.

[Robert Goren]

He is funding a military coup with our tax dollars. I agree that the money should be shut off although there will repercussions. The coup like most things over there would happen whether give them money or not. In fairness the Muburak reign was a military coup after the death of Sadat (who also came to power as part of coup succeeding Nasser who was part of a coup) and most of the money in the past has come back to the US in the sale of weapons and training of their military officers. The money was basically a bribe to keep Egypt from going to war with Israel. Without the bribe , Egypt may well go to war with Israel no matter who wins the power struggle. There are people in Egypt who are itching for fight with Israel again even though it would end like the last one.

[Tom]

There is only one side to be on if they attack Israel.

[JustRalph]

Watch this video where the Mbrotherhood protestors (who received money from the U.S.) raise the flag of Al Qaeda.......

Nice! These same people who brought down the twin towers are now the beneficiaries of U.S. foreign aid........

Amazing!!!

-PSFlFKq914

[Tom]

Obama is funding terrorists.
No debate here.

[PaceAdvantage]

Watch this video where the Mbrotherhood protestors (who received money from the U.S.) raise the flag of Al Qaeda.......

Nice! These same people who brought down the twin towers are now the beneficiaries of U.S. foreign aid........

Amazing!!!

-PSFlFKq914Is this video the equivalent of the picture hcap liked to post...you know, the one that showed Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein?

[elysiantraveller]

Obama didn't oust anybody in Egypt.

Didn't Obama say "Mubarak must go." ???

I shouldn't need to educate you on geopolitics but when an American President says a leader must go they need to leave or face the US.

Such is the nature when you are the world's hyperpower. His role in the ouster was huge.

[Robert Goren]

Didn't Obama say "Mubarak must go." ???

I shouldn't need to educate you on geopolitics but when an American President says a leader must go they need to leave or face the US.

Such is the nature when you are the world's hyperpower. His role in the ouster was huge.If it were only that easy. How long did it take and how many American soldiers died to get Hussein? Obama and just about everybody else claimed to have role in his ouster. I still say it was Father Time. Being 85 and in really bad health is not good for a dictator. I believe he is in a coma now. So he nobody could keep him power today anyway. Notice that nobody is talking about bring him back.
Strange that you are not blame the mess on the Bush neo cons that were all over Fox News claiming they caused the "Arab Spring" by taking out Hussein when Mubarak fell from power. Were they lying?