The US is to blame for the problems in Egypt

[DJofSD]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/middleeast/la-fg-egypt-anti-american-20130706,0,6572930.story

"The U.S. silence [to Morsi's ouster] proves that the U.S. has always been against political Islam, even when political Islam arises through democratic means," said Mohamed El Sayad, 40, a Cairo father of three.

Sheik Abdel Khalea Fahmi, 33, struggling to be heard over buzzing military helicopters that protesters say were sent to intimidate pro-Morsi crowds, saw an even more devious U.S. conspiracy. Mindful of the rising anti-American sentiment, he said the United States pretended to embrace Morsi's government as a way of discrediting him.

Too bad there's not any oil to go after.

[Robert Goren]

Shocking! We are hated in an Islamic country. In Egypt the hatred goes back to at least the days of Nasser. Probably longer.

[PaceAdvantage]

So that whole line about the world (including our Muslim friends) embracing us with good feelings if we elected Obama has proven to be a crock of shit, like many of us thought, while our more liberal friends continued to propagate this lie.

[Rise Over Run]

I thought 0bama fixed this problem 5 years ago...

[Robert Goren]

I thought 0bama fixed this problem 5 years ago...Obama was not in office 5 years ago. He was get ready for the democratic convention this time 5 years ago. GWB was still president. At least get your timelines right.

[DJofSD]

Gee whiz, and I thought between being able to walk on water and having the Peace Prize, Obama would be able to fix everything.

[so.cal.fan]

The Los Angeles Times is biased and mistaken here.
The Obama administration supports the MB. They did in Egypt and they do in Syria.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-05/obama-call-for-muslim-brotherhood-role-overtaken-in-egypt.html

[Tom]

What happens in Egypt, stays in Egypt.

Obama has taken the side of the terrorists - the muslim brotherhood.
We deserve their hatred this time.

btw...where is John Kerry?
Sitting frozen at his desk, for 41 minutes, like he was on 9/11?

Oh, my bad. He was on a yacht on vacation.
While the middle east boils over.

You're doing a hell of a job there, Johnny!


http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2013/07/republicans_put_john_kerry_on_a_plane

[DJofSD]

Send the Most Interesting Man in the World -- at least he'd bring some beers to drink.

[LottaKash]

Send the Most Interesting Man in the World -- at least he'd bring some beers to drink.

That's right, his "two-cents worth" is worth $37 and change....:jump:

[Tom]

He once rode a three-humped camel.

When he is in the desert, water looks for him.

The plans for the Great Pyramid have his mark ups on them.

When his boat arrived at the Suez Canal, the Mediterranean rose to meet his yacht.

It was he who UN-parted the Red Sea.

[JustRalph]

When opportunity knocks on his door, and nobody answers? Opportunity waits.......

[JustRalph]

From 2009
"Obama's Pragmatism Will Strengthen Foreign Relations and National Security
President Obama learned the lessons from past mistakes"

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2009/09/25/obamas-pragmatism-will-strengthen-foreign-relations-and-national-security

Remember polls like this?

http://www.globescan.com/news_archives/bbc_obama/backgrounder.html
http://www.globescan.com/news_archives/bbc_obama/images/BBC1_M2_cty.png

Laughingly funny .........

Don't forget this one

http://www.nea.org/home/29605.htm

The beacon of hope!!!

http://www.iss.europa.eu/publications/detail/article/obamas-change-and-americas-relations-with-the-world/

[PaceAdvantage]

The beacon of hope!!!

http://www.iss.europa.eu/publications/detail/article/obamas-change-and-americas-relations-with-the-world/Yeah, that was a great line:

"After eight years of Bush, during which America saw a dramatic erosion of its ‘soft power’, the United States is again perceived as a beacon of hope."

How's our "soft power" now? In desperate need of Viagra I would think....

[Rise Over Run]

Obama was not in office 5 years ago. He was get ready for the democratic convention this time 5 years ago. GWB was still president. At least get your timelines right.
Whatever, 4.5 years, 5 years. And you've got a lot of nerve correcting anybody on this forum.

[Robert Goren]

Whatever, 4.5 years, 5 years. And you've got a lot of nerve correcting anybody on this forum.Sorry that the facts don't fit into your theory.

[JustRalph]

Sorry that the facts don't fit into your theory.

The facts are, Obama spent the first year of his Presidency on a "kiss ass" tour of the world. He stopped off at what seemed like every country on the planet bowing and shaking hands with anybody who had room for Air Force one.

He apologized to anybody who would listen. Hell, he bowed and shook hands with a couple of doormen while visiting New York. He only realized his mistake when they told him they had no place to park the F-16's Obama was offering.

This is not an effective start to a strong foreign policy

[Tom]

Didn't he give his famous "We Suck" speech in Egypt?
Good way to show strength - act like a sniffling coward.

If you want to send a message to t muslim world, hold up a photo of Sadam Hussein hanging from a rope and say Don't Mess with Us.

[Robert Goren]

Didn't he give his famous "We Suck" speech in Egypt?
Good way to show strength - act like a sniffling coward.

If you want to send a message to t muslim world, hold up a photo of Sadam Hussein hanging from a rope and say Don't Mess with Us.That really worked well. They now have a guy in power in Iraq that is a bad as Hussein as takes marching orders from Iran to boot. For all his failings( and they were plenty including mass murder) at least Hussein at least hated the Persians (Iran) as much as we do. Taking him out was the great favor the US could have done for Iranians.

[TJDave]

If you want to send a message to t muslim world, hold up a photo of Sadam Hussein hanging from a rope and say Don't Mess with Us.

That just might work for Muslims who couldn't learn to make bombs or fly airplanes.

[Tom]

That really worked well. They now have a guy in power in Iraq that is a bad as Hussein as takes marching orders from Iran to boot. For all his failings( and they were plenty including mass murder) at least Hussein at least hated the Persians (Iran) as much as we do. Taking him out was the great favor the US could have done for Iranians.


I think the million who suffered under his rule might not agree with you. Like those tens of thousands who lost family when he gassed them, or those taken out and shot when he took power, or the countless tortured.
Taking him out was the right thing to.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Didn't he give his famous "We Suck" speech in Egypt?
Good way to show strength - act like a sniffling coward.

If you want to send a message to t muslim world, hold up a photo of Sadam Hussein hanging from a rope and say Don't Mess with Us.

Yes, Iraq worked out well. Now we have Iran with no natural counterbalance, just as well-informed parties such as James Baker warned before the war started.

I don't even understand your point about holding up the photo. What would it accomplish in Egypt or anywhere in the Muslim world for that matter? It's just cowboy bravado.

You want to portray Obama as weak and ineffectual and perhaps there's something to that, but drone activity in Afghanistan, Pakistan and northern Africa really doesn't support your case too well. You want him to hold up a photo. Besides that, what should he do?

[Saratoga_Mike]

I think the million who suffered under his rule might not agree with you. Like those tens of thousands who lost family when he gassed them, or those taken out and shot when he took power, or the countless tortured.
Taking him out was the right thing to.

Was it in our national security interests? That's the question. You might accuse me of leaning on the benefit of hindsight, but the answer is no.

Did you support US intervention in Mali?

Do you support the US intervening in Syria?

Why not North Korea (arguably a more brutal regime than S. Hussein)?

I could go on...

[woodtoo]

When Most Post is away RG is the resident spell and time checker.:faint:

[Tom]

Was it in our national security interests? That's the question. You might accuse me of leaning on the benefit of hindsight, but the answer is no.

Did you support US intervention in Mali?

Do you support the US intervening in Syria?

Why not North Korea (arguably a more brutal regime than S. Hussein)?

I could go on...


Iraq had already used WMD on its own people
Iraq had already invaded a neighboring country
Iraq had already banned UN WMD inspectors
Most importantly, Iraq fired on our Air Force planes. Enough said, You fire on a US AF Jet, I say you get Death rained down on you - we needed no other reason.

[Saratoga_Mike]

1) Iraq had already used WMD on its own people
2) Iraq had already invaded a neighboring country
3) Iraq had already banned UN WMD inspectors
4) Most importantly, Iraq fired on our Air Force planes. Enough said, You fire on a US AF Jet, I say you get Death rained down on you - we needed no other reason.

1) North Korea's treatment of its people, especially in the prison camps, is as brutal as any "WMD."

2) Yeah, the result was the Persian Gulf War. Could Obama bomb Japan tomorrow and use Pearl Harbor as a justification?

3) So UN weapons inspectors roam freely throughout North Korea?

4) Not sure which time you're referring to.

On domestic policy, you're very consistent. When it comes to foreign policy, one day you support a robust, interventionist policy and the next day you're Pat Buchanan. Which is it?

[Greyfox]

Didn't he give his famous "We Suck" speech in Egypt?
.

A "We Suck Speech" in Egypt. Yes, he gave one.

" More recently, tension has been fed by colonialism that denied rights and opportunities to many Muslims, and a Cold War in which Muslim-majority countries were too often treated as proxies without regard to their own aspirations. Moreover, the sweeping change brought by modernity and globalization led many Muslims to view the West as hostile to the traditions of Islam.".................................



........".I have come here to seek a new beginning between the United States and Muslims around the world; one based upon mutual interest and mutual respect; and one based upon the truth that America and Islam are not exclusive, and need not be in competition. Instead, they overlap, and share common principles – principles of justice and progress; tolerance and the dignity of all human beings."

As reported in http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/04/us/politics/04obama.text.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[newtothegame]

That really worked well. They now have a guy in power in Iraq that is a bad as Hussein as takes marching orders from Iran to boot. For all his failings( and they were plenty including mass murder) at least Hussein at least hated the Persians (Iran) as much as we do. Taking him out was the great favor the US could have done for Iranians.
And Mubarack??? Your pres took him out with his bluster...that worked out well huh???

[JustRalph]

Saratoga_Mike

1) North Korea's treatment of its people, especially in the prison camps, is as brutal as any "WMD."

But it's not a threat beyond its own borders. Big difference. But I agree we ignore it. The whole world does. Shamefully

2) Yeah, the result was the Persian Gulf War. Could Obama bomb Japan tomorrow and use Pearl Harbor as a justification?

And Bush the first stopped too soon. Colin Powell won out and instead of deposing Hussein, we shook a finger at the region and walked backwards out of the area.

3) So UN weapons inspectors roam freely throughout North Korea?

Not applicable to the discussion. See item 1

4) Not sure which time you're referring to.

They did it several times........during the no fly zone days

[Saratoga_Mike]

And Mubarack??? Your pres took him out with his bluster...that worked out well huh???

There was a popular uprising against Hosni, no? And the actions Obama took were perfectly consistent with neoconservative beliefs (i.e., remove the dictator and freedom will flourish). Guess what? Neoconservative foreign policies didn't work under GWB and they haven't worked under Obama. My issue is many on this board embraced neocon foreign policies under GWB, but now they reject those very same policies under Obama.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Saratoga_Mike

1) North Korea's treatment of its people, especially in the prison camps, is as brutal as any "WMD."

But it's not a threat beyond its own borders. Big difference. But I agree we ignore it. The whole world does. Shamefully

2) Yeah, the result was the Persian Gulf War. Could Obama bomb Japan tomorrow and use Pearl Harbor as a justification?

And Bush the first stopped too soon. Colin Powell won out and instead of deposing Hussein, we shook a finger at the region and walked backwards out of the area.

3) So UN weapons inspectors roam freely throughout North Korea?

Not applicable to the discussion. See item 1

4) Not sure which time you're referring to.

They did it several times........during the no fly zone days

1) It is shameful. We agree. Also, I guess we give North Korea a pass for sinking that South Korean ship?

2) James Baker actually knew/knows something about the Middle East. Iraq was a counterbalance to Iran. Without a stable Iraq, it would create a vacuum and more turmoil. Geeh, he was.....right. He could not have been more right. Therefore, I don't see your point, beyond we should have acted tougher (i.e. cowboy bravado). NO, no, no. We should have heeded the advice of Ronald Reagan after the bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut and stayed the hell out of the Middle East. Was Reagan weak, too?

3) Not applicable? They have NUCLEAR WEAPONS, not mustard gas. It could not be more applicable.

4) I thought that's what he was referring to, but wasn't sure.

[elysiantraveller]

There was a popular uprising against Hosni, no? And the actions Obama took were perfectly consistent with neoconservative beliefs (i.e., remove the dictator and freedom will flourish). Guess what? Neoconservative foreign policies didn't work under GWB and they haven't worked under Obama. My issue is many on this board embraced neocon foreign policies under GWB, but now they reject those very same policies under Obama.

:ThmbUp:

We keep saying they are the same but keep getting ignored.

[elysiantraveller]

2) James Baker actually knew/knows something about the Middle East. Iraq was a counterbalance to Iran. Without a stable Iraq, it would create a vacuum and more turmoil. Geeh, he was.....right. He could not have been more right. Therefore, I don't see your point, beyond we should have acted tougher (i.e. cowboy bravado). NO, no, no. We should have heeded the advice of Ronald Reagan after the bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut and stayed the hell out of the Middle East. Was Reagan weak, too?

A solid policy of engagement is what is needed in the region but instead but US likes to rely on its now defunct cold war presuppositions. When we should be talking, we sanction. When we should be mediating, we meddle in the political process. When we should be brokering piece, we are all too quick to take sides...

All of this stems from our old cold war strategy we refused to shift from.

[newtothegame]

There was a popular uprising against Hosni, no? And the actions Obama took were perfectly consistent with neoconservative beliefs (i.e., remove the dictator and freedom will flourish). Guess what? Neoconservative foreign policies didn't work under GWB and they haven't worked under Obama. My issue is many on this board embraced neocon foreign policies under GWB, but now they reject those very same policies under Obama.
I understand, my point was to Goren who claimed something to the effect of "what good has that done" in removing Hussein......his reasoning was that somehow its worse now ....and all I am saying is Obama pressed for the release of Hosni, and shouldn't the same be said?

[Robert Goren]

My point is they are the same. There are no good guys over there. There is not even one that is less evil than any of the others. They all are the same person with different names. There is no way to pick between them. The people who thinks there is are fools of the first order. All the US can do , no matter who is president, is stand by and watch.

[Tom]

1) North Korea's treatment of its people, especially in the prison camps, is as brutal as any "WMD." Not at all - SH demonstrated that he had them and was willing to use them, and in post 9/11, that was a vital concern for us.

2) Yeah, the result was the Persian Gulf War. Could Obama bomb Japan tomorrow and use Pearl Harbor as a justification? Not remotely comparable.

3) So UN weapons inspectors roam freely throughout North Korea? Probably not, but that is just one point. And we KNOW they have them.

4) Not sure which time you're referring to. Iraq fired on our plane in the No-Fly zones. For me, that is more than enough to obliterate the whole damn country.

On domestic policy, you're very consistent. When it comes to foreign policy, one day you support a robust, interventionist policy and the next day you're Pat Buchanan. Which is it?

See bolded.

[Stillriledup]

Egypt in the news, front and center.

[Tom]

It is a military coup.
Our laws require we cease sending aid.
Obama is breaking the law.

Impeach the bastard - he is stealing our money and funding violence.

[DJofSD]

No, no, no, not a coup. It's a man caused disaster (or whatever that expression was).

[JustRalph]

Obama was warned..........the devil you know versus the devil you don't know.

He chose the latter............remember, the world is going love Obama.