Post Time Odds

[Segwin]

Is there a web site where you can go to see the post time odds for any race?

Tnxs.

[cj]

You mean live, or after the race?

[Segwin]

After the race.

[cj]

Sure, Equibase, the odds are listed in every chart.

[Longshot6977]

Is there a web site where you can go to see the post time odds for any race?

Tnxs.

http://www1.drf.com/drfPDFCharts.do

http://www.equibase.com/static/chart/pdf/index.html?SAP=TN

[Segwin]

Tnxs much.

[wiffleball whizz]

You mean live, or after the race?

That is the 36k question......

I'm the idiot that bets before the race......in a game full of losing bettors why is it the money always comes in on the horse in the best spot turning for home?

[RXB]

I'm the idiot that bets before the race......in a game full of losing bettors why is it the money always comes in on the horse in the best spot turning for home?

If you guys really think that people are betting after the bell all the time, why are you here? Why are you in the game? Find another pastime and spare the rest of us from having to read this paranoid-delusional nonsense.

BTW, the first race at Churchill just went and the late money missed your memo. The 1A went from 4/5 in the gate to 1/2 final odds, broke last and finished third. The winner was 9/5 in the gate and ended up 5/2. But hey, don't let the facts stand in the way of a rant, right?

[Stillriledup]

That is the 36k question......

I'm the idiot that bets before the race......in a game full of losing bettors why is it the money always comes in on the horse in the best spot turning for home?

Because people make large cancellations at the start on horses who don't get flying starts....that makes the horses who GET flying starts appear that they're getting late money, when in reality, they're not.

[Stillriledup]

If you guys really think that people are betting after the bell all the time, why are you here? Why are you in the game? Find another pastime and spare the rest of us from having to read this paranoid-delusional nonsense.

BTW, the first race at Churchill just went and the late money missed your memo. The 1A went from 4/5 in the gate to 1/2 final odds, broke last and finished third. The winner was 9/5 in the gate and ended up 5/2. But hey, don't let the facts stand in the way of a rant, right?

I'm not getting what you're selling. You call it 'paranoia delusionsal' for a bettor such as Whizz to 'question authority' and ask the question that a lot of people in the game are asking "why does it always seem like the winner goes down in price". Why make fun of people who want to see payoffs and bets investigated?

Your position is close your eyes and ears and just blindly trust the racing industry to 'do the right thing'. Im not sure that's such great strategy.

[lamboguy]

Because people make large cancellations at the start on horses who don't get flying starts....that makes the horses who GET flying starts appear that they're getting late money, when in reality, they're not.i have no idea how its being done these days. the adw's have you locked out for any break. the tracks have 8 second delays these days except for THE RED MILE and that is only harness racing.

if someone is getting a live signal, they have to be paying big money for it these days.

[RXB]

I'm not getting what you're selling. You call it 'paranoia delusionsal' for a bettor such as Whizz to 'question authority' and ask the question that a lot of people in the game are asking "why does it always seem like the winner goes down in price". Why make fun of people who want to see payoffs and bets investigated?

Your position is close your eyes and ears and just blindly trust the racing industry to 'do the right thing'. Im not sure that's such great strategy.

"I'm the guy who bets before the bell"-- really, the only one, huh? Classic victim stuff.

"in a game full of losing bettors why is it the money always comes in on the horse in the best spot turning for home?" More of the same-- and his timing was beautiful with the very first thoroughbred race of the day going counter to his claim.

You guys just shoot your mouths off constantly about anything under the sun. You went on a baseless jag about that Belmont race yesterday. Now you claim that I am engaged in "blind trust" of the industry, which is an utterly laughable statement. Yap-yap-yap.

[wiffleball whizz]

"I'm the guy who bets before the bell"-- really, the only one, huh? Classic victim stuff.

"in a game full of losing bettors why is it the money always comes in on the horse in the best spot turning for home?" More of the same-- and his timing was beautiful with the very first thoroughbred race of the day going counter to his claim.

You guys just shoot your mouths off constantly about anything un

der the sun. You went on a baseless jag about that Belmont race yesterday. Now you claim that I am engaged in "blind trust" of the industry, which is an utterly laughable statement. Yap-yap-yap.

Maybe some of us are just tired of the bullshit odds changes....no reason race can't start until all money is accounted for.....a large cancelation after bad break is as bad if not worse as a horse getting banged after he has a great break:..

SRU has valid points.....

[SharpCat]

Anyone have proof of people making large bets or canceling large bets after the break?

[iwearpurple]

I am one who does not feel that generally any funny business is happening, although occasionally it may be. We simply do not know for sure. When over half the wagering pool shows up after the gate opens, this will obviously create many questions.

If there is any doubt, and there is doubt, the betting should be closed before the starting gate opens.

This would eliminate all these questions. And there is absolutely no reason that it can't be done starting tomorrow.

[Show Me the Wire]

Anyone have proof of people making large bets or canceling large bets after the break?


Yes, I have personally seen it done. The mutuel clerk has to be your partner or friend. The clerk watches his partner or friend for the signal to cancel, keep or wager.

[Stillriledup]

Anyone have proof of people making large bets or canceling large bets after the break?

What kind of 'proof' are you looking for?

[thespaah]

i have no idea how its being done these days. the adw's have you locked out for any break. the tracks have 8 second delays these days except for THE RED MILE and that is only harness racing.

if someone is getting a live signal, they have to be paying big money for it these days.
Ya know what is real intriguing?
I was watching Meadowlands on line and on TVG...The internet feed was AHEAD of TVG's feed.
I did however take into account those races TVG showed on a delay. Those I threw out of my comparison..
Satellite transmission delay is a pain, but it's what we must deal with.
If there is past posting going on, then those who are have T-1 lines for their internet. That's as fast as it gets. Oh, one must have a very powerful computer because the box can only put out to 100% of capability.
In other words, you can pour 5 gallons of water into a 5 gallon bucket, but if the bucket has a screen on top it takes longer.
People must realize only a very few will bother with such ultra high tech stuff.

[thespaah]

Yes, I have personally seen it done. The mutuel clerk has to be your partner or friend. The clerk watches his partner or friend for the signal to cancel, keep or wager.
Come on now. With all the surveillance cameras all over the place, do you really think a mutuel teller can get by with such shenannigans?

[Show Me the Wire]

Are you doubting my veracity? I said I personally witnessed it and know how it is done. I would not have made my statement to just stir the pot.

Cancelling is very easy the clerk puts the wagering voucher in the machine and pushes cancel upon the agreed signal. To make a wager the bet is loaded into the machine and the clerk pushes the accept button when signaled.

To clarify this ain't gonna happen with small amounts. You have to be a heavy hitter.

[thespaah]

Are you doubting my veracity? I said I personally witnessed it and know how it is done. I would not have made my statement to just stir the pot.

Cancelling is very easy the clerk puts the wagering voucher in the machine and pushes cancel upon the agreed signal. To make a wager the bet is loaded into the machine and the clerk pushes the accept button when signaled.

To clarify this ain't gonna happen with small amounts. You have to be a heavy hitter.
Whatever.
My point of contention is if this is in violation of the rules, eventually the people involved will be exposed and the legal process will begin.
My other issue is with the cavalier approach you appear to take regarding this.
As though is perfectly ok for such underhanded nonsense to happen in the first place.

[Stillriledup]

Whatever.
My point of contention is if this is in violation of the rules, eventually the people involved will be exposed and the legal process will begin.
My other issue is with the cavalier approach you appear to take regarding this.
As though is perfectly ok for such underhanded nonsense to happen in the first place.

Tellers are in a union, so, its not likely that they will be 'disciplined' as nobody really cares. Who at the track is every going to rock the board and say to a teller "hey, i saw you cancel for Joe Blow after the race started" Nobody cares, people are just trying to avoid rocking the boat, they collect their paychecks and look the other way.

[Show Me the Wire]

Whatever.
My point of contention is if this is in violation of the rules, eventually the people involved will be exposed and the legal process will begin.
My other issue is with the cavalier approach you appear to take regarding this.
As though is perfectly ok for such underhanded nonsense to happen in the first place.


How did you come to the conclusion I thought it is perfectly ok. Did I miss something?

You asked for some type of evidence and I offered you the evidence and explained how it is done. I personally never used this tactic.

What legal process? Is it illegal to cancel a wager or make a wager while the tote is still operational? You see the problem?

BTW I am a proponent for locking the tote at 0 mins. to post.

[SharpCat]

Are you doubting my veracity? I said I personally witnessed it and know how it is done. I would not have made my statement to just stir the pot.

Cancelling is very easy the clerk puts the wagering voucher in the machine and pushes cancel upon the agreed signal. To make a wager the bet is loaded into the machine and the clerk pushes the accept button when signaled.

To clarify this ain't gonna happen with small amounts. You have to be a heavy hitter.


Isn't this an indication that the betting pools were not closed properly.

[thespaah]

Tellers are in a union, so, its not likely that they will be 'disciplined' as nobody really cares. Who at the track is every going to rock the board and say to a teller "hey, i saw you cancel for Joe Blow after the race started" Nobody cares, people are just trying to avoid rocking the boat, they collect their paychecks and look the other way.
Then we have a problem with integrity And if a labor collective is used to protect the crooks, then get rid of the collective.
This is perhaps another example of why unions suck sideways.

[thespaah]

How did you come to the conclusion I thought it is perfectly ok. Did I miss something?

You asked for some type of evidence and I offered you the evidence and explained how it is done. I personally never used this tactic.

What legal process? Is it illegal to cancel a wager or make a wager while the tote is still operational? You see the problem?

BTW I am a proponent for locking the tote at 0 mins. to post.
On the locking of the tote at "0" mins to post, we agree. In fact if memory serves, NYRA used to do just that.
I have a big problem with the practice of cancelling wagers with the intent of manipulating the pools. In fact, there was a thread about some whale who was doing exactly that.
As far as viewing the practice, our topic of discussion, being ok, it seemed to be that you were maybe not believing it was ok, so poor choice of words. I did however use it to stimulate the debate.
I do lean toward you believing "that's the way it is, so there's nothing that can be done."...If that is not the case, then ok. If it is, then I will say that I have grown weary of hearing that from people.
If a wrong is being done in plain sight, people MUST take a stand.

[Show Me the Wire]

Isn't this an indication that the betting pools were not closed properly.

Listen people I've been complaining, on this site, about past-posting and pool integrity before the B.C. pick six scandal. The tracks don't care about pool integrity, only about increasing pool size.

Also not all clerks are union, depends on the state and the location of the wagering facility.

[Longshot6977]

Anyone have proof of people making large bets or canceling large bets after the break?

I don't really have any proof, but I remember reading an article about 25-30 years ago about the tellers at Aqueduct allowing cancellations up to 30 seconds after the gates opened. The tellers just exploited a loophole. There had been issues with the bell locking out bets and the bettors took advantage of it for a few weeks or a little more until the issue was fixed. A guy could easily bet on a few horses and then whoever wasn't in the lead at the end of the backstretch would have those bets canceled. The odds really jumped around on these select races. (6 furlong with several front runners perhaps) I had a conversation about this event with a Freehold employee about 10 years ago and he confirmed it.

I tried Googling about this, but found nothing to my dismay since I wanted to provide a link. Maybe someone else can try too. But I agree all bettting should be locked at 0 MTP so the incoming Canadian bets (need to have some time for rate conversion I guess), exchange bets, simulcast bets etc have all been accounted for. Only then can bettors feel the proper thing is being done so everyone is on equal terms.:)