Result Chart

[mikesal57]

Hi all..

Are the any result charts that gives out the odds at say 3 mins to post and /or 1 min to post?

I make conditional bets at Twinspires and on Sat they didn't give me credit for a 10-1- winner......I cant believe he was under 4-1 with a minute to go..

Also the info on these type bets are very scarce with how or why these bets get placed/cancelled

thxs

mike

P.S.- It was Colonial's 2ND Race on 6/22

[RaceBookJoe]

Not sure about results charts, but I believe Dave S has a product that follows odds changes, just not sure if you can go back and check with that product since I don't use it. You might want to ask him though.

[mikesal57]

Not sure about results charts, but I believe Dave S has a product that follows odds changes, just not sure if you can go back and check with that product since I don't use it. You might want to ask him though.


Thxs RBJ...

If anyone can give me the odds at 1 min to post ...I'd appreciate it

thxs
Mike

[Dan Montilion]

I would suggest calling Colonial Downs. Speak with the mutuel department or the track auditor. Explain your situation and have them send you a print out of what is needed. These trends are available in the mutuel department. I noted that there was only $12,026 in the win pool, so it is possible there were some very late and dramatic odds changes.

[Zaf]

I would suggest calling Colonial Downs. Speak with the mutuel department or the track auditor. Explain your situation and have them send you a print out of what is needed. These trends are available in the mutuel department. I noted that there was only $12,026 in the win pool, so it is possible there were some very late and dramatic odds changes.

That makes sense and as we know a high % of the money usually comes in late.

Z

[davew]

Conditional bets are nice in a way, but at 1 minute to post on the track feed, there are many races that don't start for 3 minutes even if there are no problems, and could easily add couple minutes for trouble loading, breakthroughs, flips....
Small ontrack handle tracks, frequently have 80%+ of money show in pool after 1 mtp, and sometimes half after the race has started. Nothing more frustrating than seeing a 4/1 start horse cross the line at 3/2.

[Some_One]

From HPI

Pgm # M/L 20 17 15 12 10 7 5 4 3 2 1 0 Final
1 9/5 1 6/5 7/5 8/5 2 9/5 2 2 2 5/2 2 8/5
2 12 11 11 10 10 9 9 9 10 11 12 13 13
3 12 22 21 20 18 14 15 13 14 14 13 12 10
4 5 7/2 4 4 4 4 7/2 4 9/2 9/2 9/2 5 5
5 20 25 24 25 25 24 25 22 25 25 23 25 35
6 15 80 50 70 60 35 40 40 40 40 40 40 45
7 10 8 7 8 8 9 10 10 7 7 6 7 7
8 7/2 9/2 4 4 7/2 4 7/2 7/2 7/2 3 3 3 7/2
9 20 70 50 35 30 25 25 23 25 25 30 25 25
10 30 99 99 70 60 50 40 40 35 35 30 40 45
11 6 12 11 10 9 7 7 6 6 5 5 6 7
Win Pool: $1,840 $2,049 $2,310 $2,573 $3,206 $3,833 $4,295 $5,127 $6,020 $7,247 $9,032 $12,659

[The Hawk]

From HPI

Pgm # M/L 20 17 15 12 10 7 5 4 3 2 1 0 Final
1 9/5 1 6/5 7/5 8/5 2 9/5 2 2 2 5/2 2 8/5
2 12 11 11 10 10 9 9 9 10 11 12 13 13
3 12 22 21 20 18 14 15 13 14 14 13 12 10
4 5 7/2 4 4 4 4 7/2 4 9/2 9/2 9/2 5 5
5 20 25 24 25 25 24 25 22 25 25 23 25 35
6 15 80 50 70 60 35 40 40 40 40 40 40 45
7 10 8 7 8 8 9 10 10 7 7 6 7 7
8 7/2 9/2 4 4 7/2 4 7/2 7/2 7/2 3 3 3 7/2
9 20 70 50 35 30 25 25 23 25 25 30 25 25
10 30 99 99 70 60 50 40 40 35 35 30 40 45
11 6 12 11 10 9 7 7 6 6 5 5 6 7
Win Pool: $1,840 $2,049 $2,310 $2,573 $3,206 $3,833 $4,295 $5,127 $6,020 $7,247 $9,032 $12,659

There's a lot of ML bashing around here but there's one case of an excellent line, especially considering the low pool total.

[mikesal57]

From HPI

Pgm # M/L 20 17 15 12 10 7 5 4 3 2 1 0 Final
1 9/5 1 6/5 7/5 8/5 2 9/5 2 2 2 5/2 2 8/5
2 12 11 11 10 10 9 9 9 10 11 12 13 13
3 12 22 21 20 18 14 15 13 14 14 13 12 10
4 5 7/2 4 4 4 4 7/2 4 9/2 9/2 9/2 5 5
5 20 25 24 25 25 24 25 22 25 25 23 25 35
6 15 80 50 70 60 35 40 40 40 40 40 40 45
7 10 8 7 8 8 9 10 10 7 7 6 7 7
8 7/2 9/2 4 4 7/2 4 7/2 7/2 7/2 3 3 3 7/2
9 20 70 50 35 30 25 25 23 25 25 30 25 25
10 30 99 99 70 60 50 40 40 35 35 30 40 45
11 6 12 11 10 9 7 7 6 6 5 5 6 7
Win Pool: $1,840 $2,049 $2,310 $2,573 $3,206 $3,833 $4,295 $5,127 $6,020 $7,247 $9,032 $12,659

GREAT...Thank you

as I can see , my 3 horse never broke under 10-1

Twinspirses hasn't resolved this yet....

Mike

P.S.- By the way who's HPI?

[Some_One]

Horseplayerinteractive, the Woodbine account wagering outfit.

[PaceAdvantage]

GREAT...Thank you

as I can see , my 3 horse never broke under 10-1

Twinspirses hasn't resolved this yet....

Mike

P.S.- By the way who's HPI?I hope you can prove your case (should be easy given the available evidence) and get paid...

Let us know how it goes...

[JustRalph]

I'll predict that the listed odds were 10-1 but it was rounded up?

probably 9.7-1 in reality and Twinspires computer reads it without rounding up?

Just a guess

[PaceAdvantage]

I thought the OP's minimum requirement was 4-1....

[lamboguy]

the problem that i have had with conditional wagering is that it is a lot like physical stops in the equity markets. for those that trade equity's, you know that the market maker's know where the stops are and if they can jam an equity to get to eat up that stop they will. supposedly in equity's the market maker's only know of the stops in listed markets. how come i am still suspicious of the other markets? even if they don't know where the stops are they can do a pretty good job in guessing them.

personally, i play plenty of races every day and have never used the conditional wager option. there are plenty of times when i get better odds than i ever could have expected.

[mikesal57]

looks like I'm getting the run-around there...

I got excuses like the guy working on it has been out last 2 days...
Spoke to Matt the morning , kept me on hold for 20 mins and then agreed that something went wrong...no s&%t sherlock
Then he said Mack will call me after 4pm..

Its 9PM...still waiting..

[moneyandland]

LIMITATION OF LIABILITY
The TwinSpires Conditional Wagering Service is provided on an 'AS IS' and 'AS AVAILABLE' basis. TwinSpires does not warrant that the service will be uninterrupted or error-free. Conditional wagers are dependent upon the receipt of accurate and timely tote information (odds, probable payoffs, minutes-to-post, etc.) from third party tote providers. TwinSpires does not guarantee the accuracy of the tote information. If the tote information used for processing conditional wagers is subsequently deemed to be inaccurate, in no way shall TwinSpires be liable for damages whether direct, indirect, incidental, exemplary, punitive, special or consequential, including, but not limited to loss of revenue, anticipated profits or other economic loss, whether foreseeable or not, in connection with or arising out of the availability, existence, furnishing or functioning of any conditional wagering services (including, but not limited to, any conditional wagers that were sent, or not sent, to tote for processing).
Conditional wagers accepted by tote may not ultimately satisfy the minimum odds/minimum probable payoff since final odds and payoff information cannot be determined until all wagers have been placed into the pari-mutuel pool.
Conditional wagers may not always be successfully sent to tote for processing. For a variety of reasons, your conditional wager may take longer to execute (or may have less available time to execute) than what is normally expected. TwinSpires provides the service on a commercially reasonable basis and does not guarantee that your conditional wager will always be able to be executed.
In the event of a temporary tote outage or some other technical or mechanical issue affecting the processing of conditional wagers, the odds or probable payoffs may not be able to be evaluated at the designated time. In this event, the conditional wager may be evaluated when updated tote information is available, or may be evaluated with the most recent odds/probable payoff information available, or may not be processed at all.



It sucks to lose a winning bet but nothing much you can do about it.


"Technology... is a queer thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other." ~C.P. Snow, New York Times, 15 March 1971

[iceknight]

the problem that i have had with conditional wagering is that it is a lot like physical stops in the equity markets. for those that trade equity's, you know that the market maker's know where the stops are and if they can jam an equity to get to eat up that stop they will. supposedly in equity's the market maker's only know of the stops in listed markets. how come i am still suspicious of the other markets? even if they don't know where the stops are they can do a pretty good job in guessing them.

personally, i play plenty of races every day and have never used the conditional wager option. there are plenty of times when i get better odds than i ever could have expected. And how is the ADW or anyone working the tote...know where the stop is? The analogy is not apt. If they take your bet, it shows up in the account when the pools close.

The market maker scenario can work ONLY if they are able to temporarily mask the process of taking your wager money, add it to the tote and if the horse wins, quietly refund the wager (without any trail) and then take the winnings (and tell you that the bet was not taken) OR.. if the horse loses, show that the wager was accepted at the conditonal odds and deduct the money..
UNLESS they are pull this off, you cannot use the market maker analogy..

[iceknight]

Hi all..

Are the any result charts that gives out the odds at say 3 mins to post and /or 1 min to post?

I make conditional bets at Twinspires and on Sat they didn't give me credit for a 10-1- winner......I cant believe he was under 4-1 with a minute to go..

Also the info on these type bets are very scarce with how or why these bets get placed/cancelled

thxs

mike

P.S.- It was Colonial's 2ND Race on 6/22 Did your account balance ever go down by the amount of your wager?

[mikesal57]

Well..it looks like I'm screwed..

Never called me back and I pretty much know that they will eventually quote me that TOS above....

I really like to have a conditional bets because I've seen more than enough times my value horse gets hammered and usually runs bad..
(maybe someone can comment on that with stats or experience)

I believe if someone takes your money for a service or product they should be totally accountable for its outcome good or bad!!!!


Anyway , I will probably look for a ADW site and get better rewards from them instead of Twinspires.

thxs

Mike

P.S.- It was a non bet and my account wasn't debited...but 10-1 shots don't come around too often :(

[PaceAdvantage]

What was your minimum acceptable odds? Was it 4-1?

Is it possible you put the conditional bet in incorrectly?

[taxicab]

Twin Spires can be very sloppy at times.
For example.....
Listing a horse as a scratch that wasn't a scratch.
Couldn't get a bet down on the horse.
And yes the horse won.
Multiple issues with IRS tax reports ( wrong amounts, over/under paying ).
Believe it or not, one of their supervisors didn't even understand the tax laws (what did/didn't qualify wagering wise ).
Many more issues.
My point is, when betting with TS double check every single bit of information related to your account.

[Stillriledup]

LIMITATION OF LIABILITY
The TwinSpires Conditional Wagering Service is provided on an 'AS IS' and 'AS AVAILABLE' basis. TwinSpires does not warrant that the service will be uninterrupted or error-free. Conditional wagers are dependent upon the receipt of accurate and timely tote information (odds, probable payoffs, minutes-to-post, etc.) from third party tote providers. TwinSpires does not guarantee the accuracy of the tote information. If the tote information used for processing conditional wagers is subsequently deemed to be inaccurate, in no way shall TwinSpires be liable for damages whether direct, indirect, incidental, exemplary, punitive, special or consequential, including, but not limited to loss of revenue, anticipated profits or other economic loss, whether foreseeable or not, in connection with or arising out of the availability, existence, furnishing or functioning of any conditional wagering services (including, but not limited to, any conditional wagers that were sent, or not sent, to tote for processing).
Conditional wagers accepted by tote may not ultimately satisfy the minimum odds/minimum probable payoff since final odds and payoff information cannot be determined until all wagers have been placed into the pari-mutuel pool.
Conditional wagers may not always be successfully sent to tote for processing. For a variety of reasons, your conditional wager may take longer to execute (or may have less available time to execute) than what is normally expected. TwinSpires provides the service on a commercially reasonable basis and does not guarantee that your conditional wager will always be able to be executed.
In the event of a temporary tote outage or some other technical or mechanical issue affecting the processing of conditional wagers, the odds or probable payoffs may not be able to be evaluated at the designated time. In this event, the conditional wager may be evaluated when updated tote information is available, or may be evaluated with the most recent odds/probable payoff information available, or may not be processed at all.



It sucks to lose a winning bet but nothing much you can do about it.


"Technology... is a queer thing. It brings you great gifts with one hand, and it stabs you in the back with the other." ~C.P. Snow, New York Times, 15 March 1971

Sounds like a typical scam offshore book who looks for 'loopholes' to stiff, you wouldnt think that this company based in the USA would stiff a customer, but that's what looks like is happening.

All this stuff is just fancy language to say "we can stiff you if we feel like it".

[mikesal57]

What was your minimum acceptable odds? Was it 4-1?

Is it possible you put the conditional bet in incorrectly?

No PA...I keep a pix of all my bets to check next day, also sent this to them

They also told me that maybe they closed the pool before my bet was in
and then told me to use 1 minute to post instead of o mins.
The race went off at 5:26 which was 25 mins after Race 1 so that was another shot at an answer...bottom line...no clue at all what happened!!

[mikesal57]

How do you like that....a week later , after I wrote it off, I get this...


Mr. Salony,
I am very sorry for the delay on this matter. This conditional wager should have been placed. The problem was the Track closed the pool a few seconds before it was scheduled to which caused a pool closed message when we tried to submit the conditional wager. The horse did win and paid $22.60 to win. We have credited your account. This can happen if you put the condition to be at zero minutes to post. By making it 1 minute til post can avoid this but also odds can change during that last minute. IF you have any further questions or concern's please feel free to contact us.

Thank You,
Shellie B
Supervisor
Player Services


I am happy but I am a little skeptical on their answer.
When the tote says 0 Minutes to post ..more than likely you'll have about 2 mins before the pools actually close..

Correct???
Should I make it 1 minute conditional bet?

Mike

[Zaf]

Wow thats great !! :jump: :ThmbUp: to Twin Spires !

Z

[cj]

When the tote says 0 Minutes to post ..more than likely you'll have about 2 mins before the pools actually close..

Correct???
Should I make it 1 minute conditional bet?

I would leave it at 0, or even after PT at some tracks. You have to learn the habits of the track. For example, you can always go after at CharlesTown and not sweat it. Very rare for a race to go off early. It happens, but planning for it will cost you more bad bets because you are betting too early.

[PhantomOnTour]

How do you like that....a week later , after I wrote it off, I get this...


Mr. Salony,
I am very sorry for the delay on this matter. This conditional wager should have been placed. The problem was the Track closed the pool a few seconds before it was scheduled to which caused a pool closed message when we tried to submit the conditional wager. The horse did win and paid $22.60 to win. We have credited your account. This can happen if you put the condition to be at zero minutes to post. By making it 1 minute til post can avoid this but also odds can change during that last minute. IF you have any further questions or concern's please feel free to contact us.

Thank You,
Shellie B
Supervisor
Player Services


I am happy but I am a little skeptical on their answer.
When the tote says 0 Minutes to post ..more than likely you'll have about 2 mins before the pools actually close..

Correct???
Should I make it 1 minute conditional bet?

Mike
Nice to see that

I stand by Twin Spires as they have handled all of my issues professionally.
On June 17 there was a race at Prx on the turf that was listed as being a dirt race. The error was with Prx as they sent out the wrong information.
I asked TS to refund my bet because I thought I was betting a dirt race.
The refund was granted within 2hrs of my request :ThmbUp:

[Tom]

after I wrote it off, I get this...

D'oh!

Quick, run out and buy up a load of lottery tickets!
You're walking around lucky. :ThmbUp:

[PaceAdvantage]

How do you like that....a week later , after I wrote it off, I get this...


Mr. Salony,
I am very sorry for the delay on this matter. This conditional wager should have been placed. The problem was the Track closed the pool a few seconds before it was scheduled to which caused a pool closed message when we tried to submit the conditional wager. The horse did win and paid $22.60 to win. We have credited your account. This can happen if you put the condition to be at zero minutes to post. By making it 1 minute til post can avoid this but also odds can change during that last minute. IF you have any further questions or concern's please feel free to contact us.

Thank You,
Shellie B
Supervisor
Player Services


I am happy but I am a little skeptical on their answer.
When the tote says 0 Minutes to post ..more than likely you'll have about 2 mins before the pools actually close..

Correct???
Should I make it 1 minute conditional bet?

MikeCongrats and thanks for keeping us posted.

BTW, did the Supervisor of Player Services actually sign that email "Shellie B" or did you edit the name yourself?

[mikesal57]

Congrats and thanks for keeping us posted.

BTW, did the Supervisor of Player Services actually sign that email "Shellie B" or did you edit the name yourself?


Shellie B
Supervisor
Player Services


Thats how it was signed PA and thx for listening to my whining :p

[Some_One]

Should I make it 1 minute conditional bet?

Mike

I agree with others, it depends on track, at Woodbine, I would, they go quickly (Are are loading even at 1 mtp), Monmouth, Turf Paradise you would be ok, they go usually 3-4 mins after 0 from what I saw

[PaceAdvantage]

Shellie B
Supervisor
Player Services


Thats how it was signed PA and thx for listening to my whining :pDoes anyone else find it odd that an employee, especially a supervisor, would be unwilling to sign their full last name when discussing a matter such as this? (or any matter come to think of it)

I find this highly unusual, but not unheard of in this day and age...