NYRA pick 5 with 15% takeout coming soon?

[Stillriledup]

I read this snippet in a bloodhorse article called "Unions, Patrons Mix at NYRA public hearing" Supposedly the meeting was today.

Here's what i found, 8 paragraphs down:

In response to a request to vary the wagering menu, O'Rourke confirmed that NYRA has requested permission from the gaming commission to offer a 50-cent Pick 5 with a 15% takeout rate.

[Vinman]

Is it even conceivable that NYRA's request for a 50 cent Pick 5 could be turned down? Yonkers just implemented one starting last night. Presumably they obtained approval from the same NY governing body that would approve NYRA's request.

So it would seem that the only remaining question is whether it will be implemented in time for Saratoga.

Fingers crossed.

Vinman

[Stillriledup]

Lets hope Vinny, lets hope!

[andicap]

At the same meeting O'Rourke said NYRA was adding Trakus in the fall.

[Vinman]

They're switching tote companies in the fall too. So the Pick 5 should be in place by Belmont.

Maybe they'll surprise us and roll it out for the SPA, but I'm not gonna hold my breath.

Vinman

[Robert Goren]

At the same meeting O'Rourke said NYRA was adding Trakus in the fall.This is much bigger deal for me than a pick 5.

[NTamm1215]

This is much bigger deal for me than a pick 5.

Good to know.

[DeltaLover]

I guess this is good news for long horizontal players. What I would prefer to see is lowing the takeout to 15% in all available bets...

[Tom]

This is much bigger deal for me than a pick 5.
For me, it is the ONLY thing that matters.
I could not care less how NYRA runs itself as long I get paid when I win. The product is the most used in the industry. They must be doing something right.

[wiffleball whizz]

Dumb question......has there ever been like a special event throughout the years with a no takeout race? Why do I remember a match race in harness when I was like 20 that was no takeout? I know at the meadowlands now if you hit the pick 4 on track or at a meadowland run otb you get a extra 10 percent which is basically the take out back....

Another dumb question but I'll ask anyway what benifit does the track get for reducing a pick 5 takeout when basically and technically if you make that bet your not betting the next 5 races "if you're live".....now I realize people do bet when live in pick 4s and 5s but some just shut down shop when live and see what happens....what is your take on that?

[Stillriledup]

Dumb question......has there ever been like a special event throughout the years with a no takeout race? Why do I remember a match race in harness when I was like 20 that was no takeout? I know at the meadowlands now if you hit the pick 4 on track or at a meadowland run otb you get a extra 10 percent which is basically the take out back....

Another dumb question but I'll ask anyway what benifit does the track get for reducing a pick 5 takeout when basically and technically if you make that bet your not betting the next 5 races "if you're live".....now I realize people do bet when live in pick 4s and 5s but some just shut down shop when live and see what happens....what is your take on that?

Valid argument. If someone sinks a large amount into the pick 5, they might not bother betting the next 4 legs, or, they'll probably bet less than they normally would.

Same might ring true for the pick 6, if you have a big ticket and a chunk of your money is 'tied up' for 3 hours, you are not going to 'churn' as much as you normally would.

I think the logic might be that tracks just assume that a player is going to bet as much as he or she can afford, regardless of how those bets enter the pools. For example, if you bet a 300 dollar pick 5 ticket and then skip the next 4 races, the assumption is that 300 dollars was your 'budget' for the first 5 races and you were only going to invest 300 dollars no matter what.

[the little guy]

Popular multi-race wagers help handle because they will encourage more people to handicap the sequence, and even though they may be alive, they will also likely bet along the way. Plus, those that aren't alive after a leg, are already personally invested, and thus more likely to continue to play, whether in available multis or race by race.

Pick-6 carryovers are a much bigger benefit to a track than just the added Pick-6 handle.

[castaway01]

Dumb question......has there ever been like a special event throughout the years with a no takeout race? Why do I remember a match race in harness when I was like 20 that was no takeout? I know at the meadowlands now if you hit the pick 4 on track or at a meadowland run otb you get a extra 10 percent which is basically the take out back....

Another dumb question but I'll ask anyway what benifit does the track get for reducing a pick 5 takeout when basically and technically if you make that bet your not betting the next 5 races "if you're live".....now I realize people do bet when live in pick 4s and 5s but some just shut down shop when live and see what happens....what is your take on that?

Do you really think that most people who have the bankroll to bet a Pick 5 just there for 2 1/2 hours and watch the five races, never wagering anything on any of them other than the Pick 5 even though they handicapped the races? I thought you were a heavy-betting regular who bet with both hands on everything that walks (haha)? Doesn't spending time handicapping five races tend to you having an opinion on them?

[wiffleball whizz]

Do you really think that most people who have the bankroll to bet a Pick 5 just there for 2 1/2 hours and watch the five races, never wagering anything on any of them other than the Pick 5 even though they handicapped the races? I thought you were a heavy-betting regular who bet with both hands on everything that walks (haha)? Doesn't spending time handicapping five races tend to you having an opinion on them?

In my opinion there are a lot of people out there that if they are live see zero reason to bet the races whether they are handicapped or not...if I bet 72 into a pick 4 and catch a $13 and $16 horse why would I bet the next to races in any way......of course Everybody here has there own opinions but that's my reason...

When I'm live after 2 races or even 1 the last thing I'm doing is hooking up tri And other exotics!!

[Robert Goren]

Do you really think that most people who have the bankroll to bet a Pick 5 just there for 2 1/2 hours and watch the five races, never wagering anything on any of them other than the Pick 5 even though they handicapped the races? I thought you were a heavy-betting regular who bet with both hands on everything that walks (haha)? Doesn't spending time handicapping five races tend to you having an opinion on them?It is not for people with huge bankrolls. It is to suck the guy who bets it to bet the races individually since he has already handicapped them. I think it is something that would not exist if weren't the ADWs. Look at the pool sizes. There are generally smaller than the smallest Exacta pool on the same card. It is gimmick to get you bet more than you would otherwise. IMO

[wiffleball whizz]

It is not for people with huge bankrolls. It is to suck the guy who bets it to bet the races individually since he has already handicapped them. I think it is something that would not exist if weren't the ADWs. Look at the pool sizes. There are generally smaller than the smallest Exacta pool on the same card. It is gimmick to get you bet more than you would otherwise. IMO

Good point.....not that it's a good example but yonkers will have 18k in exacta pool 9k in win pool and 2k in the new pick 5 pool....

Maybe what your saying really makes sense it is usually a small pool therefore not really costing the track money by losing out on takeout

[NTamm1215]

It is not for people with huge bankrolls. It is to suck the guy who bets it to bet the races individually since he has already handicapped them. I think it is something that would not exist if weren't the ADWs. Look at the pool sizes. There are generally smaller than the smallest Exacta pool on the same card. It is gimmick to get you bet more than you would otherwise. IMO

Seriously? You obviously don't analyze pool sizes much (if at all). The Pick 5 in CA is almost always larger than every exacta pool on a card.

[Robert Goren]

Seriously? You obviously don't analyze pool sizes much (if at all). The Pick 5 in CA is almost always larger than every exacta pool on a card.You are right, I don't analyze it much and never in CA( I rarely bet CA). Even if what you say is true at every track, it still isn't all great. They have exactas on every race so at least 6 or 7 times more money is bet on exactas on a card. It has its followers, no doubt. But most bettors I know do not bet it. Too many unknowns when you have to put it in. Late scratches and changing or unknown track bias hurt it. The idea that would get stuck with the post time favorite whom I may think has no chance when my horse busts through the gate and runs off and is scratched is enough to keep me touching on. I don't bet pick 3s or pick 4s for the same reason. But if you like it, go ahead and put your money down.

[Robert Goren]

Good point.....not that it's a good example but yonkers will have 18k in exacta pool 9k in win pool and 2k in the new pick 5 pool....

Maybe what your saying really makes sense it is usually a small pool therefore not really costing the track money by losing out on takeoutIt doesn't not cost them much money if as I suspect most the money bet on it comes through ADWs. You get rebated down to 10-14% ( depending how much bet a month) anyway. If your a big enough bettor , if the track takeout is 25% , you get a 15% rebate. If the track takeout is 15% you get a 5% rebate. The ADW takes their cut and the track gets the rest. It all comes out in the wash as my dad use to say. Unless of course you bet the thing at the track. Then 15% vrs 25% is a big deal.

[thaskalos]

You are right, I don't analyze it much and never in CA( I rarely bet CA). Even if what you say is true at every track, it still isn't all great. They have exactas on every race so at least 6 or 7 times more money is bet on exactas on a card. It has its followers, no doubt. But most bettors I know do not bet it. Too many unknowns when you have to put it in. Late scratches and changing or unknown track bias hurt it. The idea that would get stuck with the post time favorite whom I may think has no chance when my horse busts through the gate and runs off and is scratched is enough to keep me touching on. I don't bet pick 3s or pick 4s for the same reason. But if you like it, go ahead and put your money down.
Detective,

Correct me if I am wrong, but haven't you stated in the past that you avoid the super-exotics because you don't want to sign the IRS form when you hit a big payoff?

With that in mind...it makes sense that you wouldn't be excited about the pick-5.

[ronsmac]

this game is about making scores, that's what still makes this game appealing to a lot of players. you can say all you want about churn, the majority of players I know wouldn't play if it was just the old win place and show era of the 50's. I know a lot of the old conservative still make their $40 place bets, but there's nothing more boring and less rewarding.

[Robert Goren]

Detective,

Correct me if I am wrong, but haven't you stated in the past that you avoid the super-exotics because you don't want to sign the IRS form when you hit a big payoff?

With that in mind...it makes sense that you wouldn't be excited about the pick-5. Well, small ones any way. a ticket for $599 is worth than one for $605 for most people. For me, the paper work would be a real pain, at least until next year when I turn 66 when I go from SS disability to regular SS.

[Producer]

this game is about making scores, that's what still makes this game appealing to a lot of players. you can say all you want about churn, the majority of players I know wouldn't play if it was just the old win place and show era of the 50's. I know a lot of the old conservative still make their $40 place bets, but there's nothing more boring and less rewarding.



I couldn't agree more.

[burnsy]

I agree, IMO the bigger the menu the better as long as the play offered is being played by someone. The game needs to bring all types of bettors in, if you have to offer variety, it must be done. It has nothing to do with my personal choices, different bets for different sets. I will agree with Goren a little though, the exacta still is the big boys bet in this game, analyze the pools all you want. The exacta is the biggest bet still and the easiest way to make money. The pool at the major tracks is almost always the biggest single race pool......EVERY RACE. These gimmick bets are fine and a good way to score but you can't count on regularly hitting them. When you get hot the exacta is the kind of bet you can hit REGULARLY. People that hammer numbers, play exactas, thats why the pool is so big. When i was young and was introduced to professional horse players, thats all they played. Its the easiest way to churn your money and come out ahead in the grind of daily play because you can hit the thing consistantly if you are good and the return is high for the risk. The 50 cent pick 5 would be great to have this meet at Saratoga, they should look into the dime rainbow too, what can it hurt? We live in the time of the jackpot prize, thats the allure of scratchies, lotto and slots. People love the "dream" bet, it sells. If you are already a good horse player, you sort of have an edge trying these bets and it will bring new interests in.

[Stillriledup]

I don't see a pick 5 listed on the DRF printout of Saratoga's opening day. Did they miss it?

[SandyW]

I don't see a pick 5 listed on the DRF printout of Saratoga's opening day. Did they miss it?

Nope, you didn't miss it. More politics from New York State and NYRA.:bang:

[Stillriledup]

Nope, you didn't miss it. More politics from New York State and NYRA.:bang:

Naw, cmon, seriously?

:bang:

[FantasticDan]

DRF's David Grening tweets that the Pick 5 is on the agenda for the NYS Gaming Commission's THU meeting, and it may debut Saturday if approved.

[BlueShoe]

The lowered takeout 50 cent Pick-5 is becoming my favorite exotic wager, and the fans seems to agree. If the NYRA is going along with that, will certainly jump in on selected days. Just a thought, but if 15% takeout, why not go a step further and trump the SoCal tracks 14% and make it 13% or even 12? The pools would be huge, with players all over taking a shot. Yeah, I know, I'm dreaming, but why not do something creative and daring that is fan friendly?

[Stillriledup]

The lowered takeout 50 cent Pick-5 is becoming my favorite exotic wager, and the fans seems to agree. If the NYRA is going along with that, will certainly jump in on selected days. Just a thought, but if 15% takeout, why not go a step further and trump the SoCal tracks 14% and make it 13% or even 12? The pools would be huge, with players all over taking a shot. Yeah, I know, I'm dreaming, but why not do something creative and daring that is fan friendly?

Do we even know if the takeout provision passes, the take will be something reasonable? Maybe its going to be 22-25%?

[ronsmac]

[QUOTE=BlueShoe]The lowered takeout 50 cent Pick-5 is becoming my favorite exotic wager, and the fans seems to agree. If the NYRA is going along with that, will certainly jump in on selected days. Just a thought, but if 15% takeout, why not go a step further and trump the SoCal tracks 14% and make it 13% or even 12? The pools would be huge, with players all over taking a shot. Yeah, I know, I'm dreaming, but why not do something creative and daring that is fan friendly?[/QUOTE
I wonder if tracks in Maryland and Pennsylvania would boycott the bet if the takeout was too low, the way they did keeneland about a decade ago. Nothing surprises me anymore.

[Al Gobbi]

Hearing that a Pick 5 and a show quinella wager will be offered on a trial basis during the Belmont fall meet. Proposed takeout for both bets is 15%.

[Vinman]

I trust that only the show quinella is subject to a "trial basis" rollout.

Vinman

PS: Just what IS a show quinella anyway? ;)

[ronsmac]

is that where you need two horses in the top 3 in any order?

[Stillriledup]

I trust that only the show quinella is subject to a "trial basis" rollout.

Vinman

PS: Just what IS a show quinella anyway? ;)

Its a bet that says "our wall calendars in our offices still say 1979"

[Stillriledup]

Approved!

Pick 5 starts Sept 7th at Belmont with 15% takeout.

[Stillriledup]

Get ready, here we go!

Too bad its not on the final 5 races of the card, i would appreciate that.

[Stillriledup]

Silly question, i should know this.

Is the takeout for this bet at Saratoga 15% or is it something else?

[ScullyDog]

Silly question, i should know this.

Is the takeout for this bet at Saratoga 15% or is it something else?

It is 15%.

[Stillriledup]

It is 15%.

Thanks.