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superfecta
11-20-2001, 08:59 PM
I would like to find a program that uses the Hambleton pace #s from the Sartin book,Pace Makes The Race.Any suggestions? I want to be able to download PP and get the pace figs I am accustomed to using,I really don't want to change to a different pace scale.

hdcper
11-20-2001, 09:13 PM
Superfecta,

If I understand your question right, you are looking for the early pace number of TPR calculations from the Pace Makes the Race book.

Although I don't use the software, it seems synergism would give what you are looking for. For the life of me I can't remember the url, but if you go to www.horsedata.com(HDW's site) you can access synergism. Last time I checked you can still download a demo of the program which should give you a good overview of exactly what it offers.

Hope that helps,

Hdcper

Tom
11-20-2001, 09:30 PM
BRIS has a free program called Multicaps that has total pace numbers as one of the options for read outs.
You can go to ITS and actually download a verison of PP's that giv eyou the early and late pace numbers and a revised total pace number right in the running line for each horse.

Tom

GR1@HTR
11-20-2001, 11:00 PM
TPR = EP+F3

If you want a simple and cheap variation of this use the BRIS PP where:
E2=EP
LP=F3

BillW
11-20-2001, 11:55 PM
Guys,

I just happened to make a run on my database this eve that included all the dirt sprints (dry). In 4676 races the Hambleton total pace (using GR1's formula with BRIS data) is as follows:

starts Wins IV ROI
1st 5006 1387 2.34 -$0.24
2nd 4740 807 1.44 -$0.35
3rd 4557 601 1.11 -$0.36
1st Half 7146 619 0.73 -$0.46
2nd Half 14595 859 0.50 -$0.72



ROI is based on $2.00 bet where 0.00 is break even. This is a pretty strong parameter (one of the strongest that I track)

Later,

Bill W.

GR1@HTR
11-21-2001, 12:24 AM
Interesting Bill. I have always felt that TPR puts too much emphasis on the final fraction. In matter of fact, half of the rating is based on the final 1/3 of the race. Makes no sense to me...

To me a better and more balanced rating would be would be EP + SP where
EP=(E1 + E2)
SP=(E2 + F3)

Good luck.

BillW
11-21-2001, 01:17 AM
GR1,

I don't have any complex Brohammers in this run. The top AP has an IV of 2.18 (SP == 1.81 and EP == 1.75). Of course this isn't a huge database and is mostly midwest tracks over last year or two.

I need to add some complex combos for the sake of curiosity (and possibly productive research ~G~)

Later,

Bill

Dick Schmidt
11-21-2001, 04:09 AM
BillW,

No, you can't get TPRs from Bris or any other source mentioned. You can get something that they have screwed around with that they call TPRs (without our permission, I might add). The only person Tom and I ever allowed to use our Total Pace Ratings in a program that we didn't help write was Bob Purdy. He uses them in his Synergism program.

If you want the real deal, download Synergism (it's free and comes with lots of test data) and use HDW as a data source. Costs about $130 a month for unlimited tracks and results. Accept no substitutes; the original is still the best.

www.synergism-sdp.com

Dick

P.S. Those of you who think TPR "doesn't make sense" are, of course, welcome to your opinion. Never bothered Tom or me at all; we can use the extra money.

hdcper
11-21-2001, 09:24 AM
Dick,

Did you miss my post above. However, thanks for posting the direct link to Bob Purdy's program Synergism.

Another question Dick if you don't mind. I read on Bob's site that he would start selling the program again at the end of the year. Does that mean the copy I have already downloaded will no longer work or only that any future upgrades would result in an additional fee?

Just thought others would like to know the details,

Hdcper

Dick Schmidt
11-21-2001, 05:32 PM
Hdcper,

As far as I know, the Synergism program you have will continue to work. After Jan 1, Bob will be selling the program instead of giving it away, but it will be exactly the same. The only immediate change will be to the download utility due to HDW changing URLs. You need to download a new version of SynNet after the 1st of December.

As for updates, I know that he is planning to have parts of the program re-written. In the past, Synergism updates have been either free or available at a very nominal fee. I'll ask Bob next time I talk to him and let you know if there is any change in this policy.

Dick

superfecta
11-21-2001, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by Dick Schmidt
BillW,

If you want the real deal, download Synergism (it's free and comes with lots of test data) and use HDW as a data source. Costs about $130 a month for unlimited tracks and results. Accept no substitutes; the original is still the best.

www.synergism-sdp.com

Dick

P.S. Those of you who think TPR "doesn't make sense" are, of course, welcome to your opinion. Never bothered Tom or me at all; we can use the extra money.

Thanks for the info Dick.
Funny how I agree with TPR and I don't particularly agree with Brohamers FPS .
I like his track profile and winners profile ideas though.
Oh well ,to each his own.....

GR1@HTR
11-21-2001, 08:47 PM
Dick,

Since you were the originator of TPR...
Let me ramble on here...

TPR= EP + Final fraction
Brohammer SP= (EP + Final fraction)/2

Therefore Brohammer SP and your TPR measure the same thing. Just one uses a feet per second (Example 56.50) and the other a whole number (Example 160) to measure the same thing.

So either Brohammer copied you or vise versa?

Dick Schmidt
11-22-2001, 03:31 AM
Superfecta,

You are right, they are great ideas. Why do you think we stole them? Actually, we had permission, but they were developed by Tom Brohamer.

GR1,

No, they are not the same and no, we didn't copy from Tom Brohamer nor did Tom copy from us. The formula for TPR is NOT second call + final fraction. The formula is second call RATING plus final fraction RATING. These ratings are not feet-per-second numbers as are Tom Brohamers, but rather derived from a second call standard and a final time chart that we developed over a period of years. The basic idea was to be able to compare the performance of horses who ran at different distances within the sprint or route structures. In other words, answer this question: is a 24.2 final fraction at 6 furlongs better or worse than a 30.4 final fraction at 6.5 furlongs. FPS numbers do not really answer the question but a well crafted parallel time chart can. This is what TPR is based on. If you really want to understand TPRs, read the book. I'll be glad to sell you one.

Dick

Lefty
11-25-2001, 12:19 PM
If anyone interested in Sartin's orig. TPR nos. in a pocket computer(casio( let me know. You have to input by hand but it's quick. When I was using it I would do races right at the racebook.
swopecharles@usa.net