GOP Sulking as Obamacare Saves Americans Billions

[maddog42]

"The GOP’s only hope at this point is to spread as much disinformation about Obamacare as possible, now, before the full benefits kick in and become apparent to the public. At the very least, Republicans can mitigate the popularity of the program and the attendant backlash against the politicians that have been actively trying to kill it since its inception. What they won’t be able to do, though, is throw the public back under the bus for corporate profits."
Read more: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/05/10/obamacare-lowers-costs/#ixzz2VMcvDcfs

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/05/10/obamacare-lowers-costs/

[Tom]

I got this nice plot of land in Florida you might like to look at.....and a bridge that goes to it. :lol:

[BlueShoe]

Joke of the day for the OP? A bit of satire and a good chuckle always nice, thanks for sharing.

[rastajenk]

I couldn't get past the first two sentences.

[LottaKash]

"The GOP’s only hope at this point is to spread as much disinformation about Obamacare as possible



You make it sound as if only people who are GOP leaning, will be affected by Obamacare....

Man, are you in for a rude awakening, very shortly too, I suspect....:eek:

[dartman51]

"The GOP’s only hope at this point is to spread as much disinformation about Obamacare as possible, now, before the full benefits kick in and become apparent to the public. At the very least, Republicans can mitigate the popularity of the program and the attendant backlash against the politicians that have been actively trying to kill it since its inception. What they won’t be able to do, though, is throw the public back under the bus for corporate profits."
Read more: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/05/10/obamacare-lowers-costs/#ixzz2VMcvDcfs

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/05/10/obamacare-lowers-costs/




Just a suggestion, but you might try reading the actual bill, and make an INFORMED decision. Then you can post something real, instead of this garbage. I read a lot of the replies to that article, and most of them sound all too familiar(like some around here.) 99.9% of those people haven't read the bill either, so they buy in to whatever the Govt. and the idiots, like the author of that piece, tell them.

[mostpost]

Just a suggestion, but you might try reading the actual bill, and make an INFORMED decision. Then you can post something real, instead of this garbage. I read a lot of the replies to that article, and most of them sound all too familiar(like some around here.) 99.9% of those people haven't read the bill either, so they buy in to whatever the Govt. and the idiots, like the author of that piece, tell them.
Have you read the bill. I seriously doubt it. I have not read it in its entirety either. But when someone posts a criticism, I try to read the pertinent section.
Most of the time those criticism are based on a false interpretation; deliberately false.

I know you have that knee jerk reaction to the word government, but I can tell you that I have read more untruths or half truths at Hot Air, Breitbart and the like than I ever heard from the government.

Since you have read the law :rolleyes: , perhaps you can point me to the specific areas wherein all these potential disasters are codified.

[sammy the sage]

Have you read the bill. I seriously doubt it. I have not read it in its entirety either. But when someone posts a criticism, I try to read the pertinent section.
Most of the time those criticism are based on a false interpretation; deliberately false.

I know you have that knee jerk reaction to the word government, but I can tell you that I have read more untruths or half truths at Hot Air, Breitbart and the like than I ever heard from the government.

per usual you ARE WRONG...I said the same thing about Bush prior to THE crash....was villified here by many including THE host...

Figure's lie and liar's figure...and THE government....regardless of who's in charge FUDGES...period...END of THAT debate/discussion....

This bill is destructive and destroying...and as YOU STATED...you haven't read IT ALL....the really SAD part...the #$$^%%$# people who voted THIS in DID NOT read the WHOLE thing either...what F"G crock of Sh!!!!!t...

This TRILLION $$$$ tax ++++ is going to cripple and wipe out the MIDDLE class............

[sammy the sage]

and BY the way...not a SINGLE poster has posted how much they're going TO SAVE next year due to THIS... :rolleyes:

I asked for that in an EARLIER thread...no taker's YET...

[fast4522]

This TRILLION $$$$ tax ++++ is going to cripple and wipe out the MIDDLE class............

Because it is the desired objective,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SISUIhprOa8

For those who desire this ES & D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKVt9EvqOpg

JFK was a hero in my eyes, because he rebelled as President.

[sammy the sage]

saving what FOR whom...not these..

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/04/obamacare-rate-shock-how-big-is-it-does-it-matter.html

Quote:
The most basic reason that rate shock matters is that I don't think young single people were expecting it. It's true that during health care reform, the reformers acknowledged that some people would end up with a big health insurance bill they hadn't had before. But I wouldn't say that they exactly emphasized this aspect..... I was under the impression that your average scraping-by clerical worker would pretty much have their bill covered, or reduced to some negligble sum.

So I got a sort of a shock today when I started playing with the Kaiser Family Foundation's subsidy calculator. I had it at the back of my mind that a single young freelance writer living in California, Washington, or New York, and making $32,000 a year, would qualify for insurance at a basically nominal cost. (The profession doesn't matter so much, but for obvious reasons, this is a type that I'm particularly familiar with.) It turns out that this person will qualify for a subsidy of about $213 a year, based on an expected "Silver Plan" (the medium coverage package) cost of $3,018, or about $235 a month.

On the one hand, it's great that young single folks can insure themselves for about $1600-2000 a year, even if they don't qualify for a subsidy. On the other hand, as Will points out, lots of young single people can insure themselves for a lot less than that right now. I don't think this is what they've been expecting.

Anecdotally, they seem to be expecting the kind of generous package that Mom and Dad have, at around the cost of their monthly cell phone bill. I don't think it's sunk in that Obamacare will force them to pay $150 a month for insurance similar to bare bones plans that are available right now in many states for $100 a month--which they've declined to buy. And I'd be willing to bet that the average childless adult making $32,000 a year is expecting the government to kick in a lot more than $18 a month towards the cost of this suddenly-more-expensive insurance.

[elysiantraveller]

Have you read the bill. I seriously doubt it. I have not read it in its entirety either. But when someone posts a criticism, I try to read the pertinent section.

I call BS.

Our discussions in the past have demonstrated you have no clue how the bill works.

[maddog42]

Just a suggestion, but you might try reading the actual bill, and make an INFORMED decision. Then you can post something real, instead of this garbage. I read a lot of the replies to that article, and most of them sound all too familiar(like some around here.) 99.9% of those people haven't read the bill either, so they buy in to whatever the Govt. and the idiots, like the author of that piece, tell them.

You didn't answer mostie's question. If you haven't read the bill, does that make you a hypocrite? Just asking. Maybe you have read the whole thing.
but I doubt it.

[maddog42]

saving what FOR whom...not these..

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/04/obamacare-rate-shock-how-big-is-it-does-it-matter.html

Anecdotally, they seem to be expecting the kind of generous package that Mom and Dad have, at around the cost of their monthly cell phone bill. I don't think it's sunk in that Obamacare will force them to pay $150 a month for insurance similar to bare bones plans that are available right now in many states for $100 a month--which they've declined to buy. And I'd be willing to bet that the average childless adult making $32,000 a year is expecting the government to kick in a lot more than $18 a month towards the cost of this suddenly-more-expensive insurance.

So this is the worst criticism you could come up with? Some singles will have to pay $50 a month more for insurance? I'll give you some credit this was a reasonable and well written article. I actually liked it. How many of those single childless people were unable to get insurance at all before Obamacare because of pre-existing conditions? One of the main criticisms that I dealt with over a year ago
(during a thread comparing Canada's health care to ours) was that Obamacare wouldn't give more people access to insurance. That turned out to be pure BS. There does seem to be a portion of the population that will pay slightly more for health care(the rich and young singles). In general lower middle class families will pay a whole lot less. This is a very good tradeoff. Obamacare will help prevent bankruptcy from catastrophic illness
and will reduce rising costs of medical bills.

Thanks for a reasonable criticism of Obamacare.

[Robert Goren]

It doesn't matter if you have read it or not. I am sure legalese in it makes it impossible to understand unless you are a law professor at Yale. These bills have become so big that almost nobody what in them completely. I am reminded the Safe Harbors Act in which there was a part that outlawed online poker. Almost none of the congress knew it was in the bill and GWB admitted he did not know it either when he signed it. Although he said it wouldn't have mattered if he had known. Nothing Congress does is simple anymore and it been that way for a very long time, long before anybody who post here was born. If think the Obama care bill was long and complicated, try looking at the Farm bill that is now before congress. Food stamp are part of it. No matter how you feel about food stamps, you have to admit that is crazy.

[Tom]

You didn't answer mostie's question. If you haven't read the bill, does that make you a hypocrite? Just asking. Maybe you have read the whole thing.
but I doubt it.

The idiots who voted for it never read it......what';s your point? :lol::lol::lol:

[so.cal.fan]

I am very, very fearful of Obamacare.
Our health insurance costs have increased over 40% in the past 4 1/2 years.
We are covered by Teamster's Union insurance and Medicare.
Other people I know have had similar or higher costs.
I pray it will be repealed. It is a very bad plan. Health care needs major reform, but this terrible plan is going to make it far worse than most people imagine. :eek:

[maddog42]

The idiots who voted for it never read it......what';s your point? :lol::lol::lol:

Do you think the Republican idiots in the house read all 1200 pages of the climate bill passed in june 2009? Major spending bills frequently run over 1000 pages. President Bush had a spending bills run over 1400 pages. Do you think the Republican idiots read all 1400 pages? No They hired some aid (or several)
to read it for them.
Are 1000 page bill that uncommon? Not really. What is your point? You seem unfamiliar with the legislative process.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2009/08/paper_weight.html

[Tom]

From the time the bill was finished until the time it was voted on, even a speed reader could not have read it all. FOX news hired one and he could not finish it.

[so.cal.fan]

Maddog42?
Are you employed by SLATE to blog on these types of boards?
Just asking :rolleyes:

[maddog42]

Maddog42?
Are you employed by SLATE to blog on these types of boards?
Just asking :rolleyes:

How did you guess? They give me all the Food Stamps, drugs, Free Sex from liberal prostitutes that this 60 year old can handle. In exchange I frequent the bulletin boards and post all the liberal gibberish. As they say in Blazing saddles: "Where all the white women at?"
Once a year I switch sides and post for the conservative/crazy/right wing groups. Posting for them bothers my conscience, but they have the best prostitutes. Male prostitutes that is.
Conservatives are easily the best liars.

[hcap]

Maddog42?
Are you employed by SLATE to blog on these types of boards?
Just asking :rolleyes:Don't know about Maddog42?, but I work for the Communist party, the International Al Gore Carbon Counters Society, the Bilderbergers, the Clintons since 1980, the Martians and the real Flat Earthers living 1000 miles below the grand canyon.

Excuse me, gotta run, my tin foil beanie needs adjusting to true north. :lol:

[maddog42]

Don't know about Maddog42?, but I work for the Communist party, the International Al Gore Carbon Counters Society, the Bilderbergers, the Clintons since 1980, the Martians and the real Flat Earthers living 1000 miles below the grand canyon.

Excuse me, gotta run, my tin foil beanie needs adjusting to true north. :lol:

Comrade!!!

[hcap]

Comrade!!!I don't know if you attended our last clandestine super ultra secret cell meeting(in Prague, The Florenc Hotel April 1st), but the latest secret plans were explicitly laid out. Here it is.....

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff317/mommy2charisse/just%20plain%20weird/Foruminformationtool.jpg

Check your pigeon coop in a few hours. Just sent you a VERY hush hush message.

"Товарищ"
Comrade. :cool:

[LottaKash]

Don't know about Maddog42?, but I work for the Communist party, the International Al Gore Carbon Counters Society, the Bilderbergers, the Clintons since 1980, the Martians and the real Flat Earthers living 1000 miles below the grand canyon.

Excuse me, gotta run, my tin foil beanie needs adjusting to true north. :lol:

I don't get it, I always thought that the "Commies" didn't really get along that well with the "Martians"....

I guess that is where the tin foil hat comes in, I would venture a guess...

Double Agent ?

[PaceAdvantage]

How did you guess? They give me all the Food Stamps, drugs, Free Sex from liberal prostitutes that this 60 year old can handle. In exchange I frequent the bulletin boards and post all the liberal gibberish. As they say in Blazing saddles: "Where all the white women at?"
Once a year I switch sides and post for the conservative/crazy/right wing groups. Posting for them bothers my conscience, but they have the best prostitutes. Male prostitutes that is.
Conservatives are easily the best liars.Stop messing around and get back to calling conservatives racist already...you're losing valuable time! :rolleyes:

[so.cal.fan]

I expect this from liberals, I know how they think, I used to be one!
I am now a born again CONSERVATIVE.
I'm an Independent voter, I think for myself, don't buy into mainstream media spin. Especially from the Democrats and Republicans who are more beholding to special interests than to the people of the U.S.
I recognize the talking points of these lefties on this board, you can find the same spin at all the usual places.
They can't debate with facts so they ridicule and insult people.
I am a senior and I am now afraid of my government. True, for the first time in my life, I am afraid of my government.
This should not be. It should not!

[HUSKER55]

Don't know about Maddog42?, but I work for the Communist party, the International Al Gore Carbon Counters Society, the Bilderbergers, the Clintons since 1980, the Martians and the real Flat Earthers living 1000 miles below the grand canyon.

Excuse me, gotta run, my tin foil beanie needs adjusting to true north.


JUST WHAT I HAVE ALWAYS SUSPECTED! AND NOW THE TRUTH COMES OUT AND YOU PLEAD GUILTY!

THIS CALLS FOR A CELEBRATION!!! :D


BTW----NO PLEA BARGANS :D

[johnhannibalsmith]

...THIS CALLS FOR A CELEBRATION!!! :D
...

Speaking of which...

...and not to go off this uniquely fresh topic of Obamacare and tinfoil hats, but I think I saw it was your birthday a day or so ago Husker. If my mind wasn't playin' tricks on me fifth ward style, happy afterthefact birthday! :jump:

[maddog42]

I recognize the talking points of these lefties on this board, you can find the same spin at all the usual places.
They can't debate with facts so they ridicule and insult people.
I am a senior and I am now afraid of my government. True, for the first time in my life, I am afraid of my government.
This should not be. It should not!

The above nonsense about prostitution was all in jest. Sorry if I offended you.
You may have heard me post that I have voted Republican a couple of times.
Very true. I vote for the people(here in Okieland) who are the least crazy.
Mostly I vote Democratic, but I have my reservations. If Obama keeps droning everything in sight I may switch sides. I keep a very suspicious eye on all the SOB's. The National republican party has almost no tolerance for moderates. This forces me to vote for Obama.
For all the propaganda and BS and posturing (by Fox) Obama might as well be a moderate Republican from 1986. Obama promised Health care reform and getting us out of Iraq. For my money he delivered. I'm glad I voted for him. I am afraid of our government too.

[so.cal.fan]

Happy Belated Birthday, Huck!!!!!!!! :jump:

[newtothegame]

The above nonsense about prostitution was all in jest. Sorry if I offended you.
You may have heard me post that I have voted Republican a couple of times.
Very true. I vote for the people(here in Okieland) who are the least crazy.
Mostly I vote Democratic, but I have my reservations. If Obama keeps droning everything in sight I may switch sides. I keep a very suspicious eye on all the SOB's. The National republican party has almost no tolerance for moderates. This forces me to vote for Obama.
For all the propaganda and BS and posturing (by Fox) Obama might as well be a moderate Republican from 1986. Obama promised Health care reform and getting us out of Iraq. For my money he delivered. I'm glad I voted for him. I am afraid of our government too.

BS, the national republican party (and the like of McCain) are almost all moderates. Its the TEA party which is gaining poqwer and have no tollerance for democratic light.

[maddog42]

Don't know about Maddog42?, but I work for the Communist party, the International Al Gore Carbon Counters Society, the Bilderbergers, the Clintons since 1980, the Martians and the real Flat Earthers living 1000 miles below the grand canyon.

Excuse me, gotta run, my tin foil beanie needs adjusting to true north.


JUST WHAT I HAVE ALWAYS SUSPECTED! AND NOW THE TRUTH COMES OUT AND YOU PLEAD GUILTY!

THIS CALLS FOR A CELEBRATION!!! :D


BTW----NO PLEA BARGANS :D


Hey Husker, we are just weak-minded pinko-libs, not full blown commies. My wife is from Cozad Nebraska. I call her bug-eater all the time.
Happy birthday!!!

PS
Many on this board may not get the bug-eater reference. You may have to explain.

[JustRalph]

I expect this from liberals, I know how they think, I used to be one!
I am now a born again CONSERVATIVE.
I'm an Independent voter, I think for myself, don't buy into mainstream media spin. Especially from the Democrats and Republicans who are more beholding to special interests than to the people of the U.S.
I recognize the talking points of these lefties on this board, you can find the same spin at all the usual places.
They can't debate with facts so they ridicule and insult people.
I am a senior and I am now afraid of my government. True, for the first time in my life, I am afraid of my government.
This should not be. It should not!

You inspire me........Thank you Diane!

[NJ Stinks]

You inspire me........Thank you Diane!

It appears that every time somebody disagrees with Diane, she thinks it's an personal insult.

It's not.

[delayjf]

Many on this board may not get the bug-eater reference. You may have to explain.

The Nebraska Cornhuskers were once nick-named the "Bug-Eaters".

[sammy the sage]

Back on THE lack of honesty by the bill O.P.'s ....

Ohio rates are going TO SKYROCKET.....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/06/10/ohio-dept-of-insurance-obamacare-to-increase-individual-market-health-premiums-by-88-percent/?partner=yahootix

http://www.insurance.ohio.gov/Newsroom/Pages/06062013ACAProposedRates.aspx

[sammy the sage]

and still NOT single personal example of rates going down by the resident cRATS defending this $trillion + tax....

[mostpost]

Back on THE lack of honesty by the bill O.P.'s ....

Ohio rates are going TO SKYROCKET.....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/06/10/ohio-dept-of-insurance-obamacare-to-increase-individual-market-health-premiums-by-88-percent/?partner=yahootix

http://www.insurance.ohio.gov/Newsroom/Pages/06062013ACAProposedRates.aspx
Let's start with the fact that the director of the Ohio Department of Insurance is Mary Taylor, who is also the Lt. Governor of Ohio. So you have a partisan politician running the ODI. A partisan politician who has made no secret of her distaste for Obamacare.

The we add the fact that, by Taylor's own admission, benefits under Obamacare are "much richer" than they were when Ohio was running the program. Add to that the fact that these are proposed rates, which will undoubtedly go down as the result of competition. Just as they did in California and Oregon, even after the first round of proposed rates had been approved.

Finally the article does not take into account the subsidies provided to the poor and to most middle class.

So basically we have a possible increase in premiums for a much more comprehensive increase in benefits, the cost of which will be offset by a series of government subsidies. And the amount of that increase will probably be smaller than now predicted.

[Tom]

The first step towards recovery is to get out of denial.

[JustRalph]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100216779/why-barack-obamas-imperial-presidency-is-imploding/

Meanwhile back at the ranch, Obama is imploding

[NJ Stinks]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100216779/why-barack-obamas-imperial-presidency-is-imploding/

Meanwhile back at the ranch, Obama is imploding

What a surprise that the Daily Telegraph - a conservative paper if there ever was one - would pile on.

And let's not forget the most objective writer of this FOX-like attack was "A former aide to Margaret Thatcher". :rolleyes:

[newtothegame]

What a surprise that the Daily Telegraph - a conservative paper if there ever was one - would pile on.

And let's not forget the most objective writer of this FOX-like attack was "A former aide to Margaret Thatcher". :rolleyes:

Not to worry NJ, I am sure the DOJ or some other government entity will get even with those damn journalist soon enough ,.......:lol:

[JustRalph]

What a surprise that the Daily Telegraph - a conservative paper if there ever was one - would pile on.

And let's not forget the most objective writer of this FOX-like attack was "A former aide to Margaret Thatcher". :rolleyes:

Here you go.......from AP

It says basically the same thing


http://bigstory.ap.org/article/column-mounting-controversies-are-all-about-trust

[MPRanger]

"The GOP’s only hope at this point is to spread as much disinformation about Obamacare as possible, now, before the full benefits kick in a]

Whatever the benefits, it's not worth the cost of our liberty. You may want to be a ward of the state but half of the country doesn't. Upheaval to follow.

[OntheRail]

Let's start with the fact that the director of the Ohio Department of Insurance is Mary Taylor, who is also the Lt. Governor of Ohio. So you have a partisan politician running the ODI. A partisan politician who has made no secret of her distaste for Obamacare.

The we add the fact that, by Taylor's own admission, benefits under Obamacare are "much richer" than they were when Ohio was running the program. Add to that the fact that these are proposed rates, which will undoubtedly go down as the result of competition. Just as they did in California and Oregon, even after the first round of proposed rates had been approved.

Finally the article does not take into account the subsidies provided to the poor and to most middle class.

So basically we have a possible increase in premiums for a much more comprehensive increase in benefits, the cost of which will be offset by a series of government subsidies. And the amount of that increase will probably be smaller than now predicted.



Sure thing... just like the COMPETITION between oil companies keep gas prices at a honest rate. :rolleyes: The only Competition will be on whom rakes in the most PROFIT. And you talk about the subsidies where does that come from again? Oh yeah TAXES.

Just like when they enacted the Auto insurance requirement... they claimed rates would be less for everyone... Yeah Right. Keep drinking the Pink kookaid.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Surprise!!! Big businesses get a pass!!!

WASHINGTON (AP) — In a major concession to business groups, the Obama administration Tuesday unexpectedly announced a one-year delay, until 2105, in a central requirement of the new health care law that medium and large companies provide coverage for their workers or face fines.

The move sacrificed timely implementation of President Barack Obama's signature legislation but may help the administration politically by blunting a line of attack Republicans were planning to use in next year's congressional elections. The employer requirements are among the most complex parts of the health care law, which is designed to expand coverage for uninsured Americans.

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-admin-delays-major-requirement-health-law-221406945.html


EDITED TO NOTE: I think that the AP may have meant 2015 instead of 2105, but chances are, the typo may ultimately be somewhat accurate.

[so.cal.fan]

It's strange how these things always disappear from the news with an election year coming up.
Well, no it's not strange, it would be strange if it didn't.

[NJ Stinks]

Perhaps the most relevant aspects of this move by the White House can be found in the paste below. From the Washington Post website tonight:
_________________________

Domenech has a point: This is a regulatory end-run of the legislative process. The law says the mandate goes into effect in 2014, but the administration has decided to give it until 2015 by simply refusing to enforce the penalties.

The administration says this kind of thing happens all the time. “I think you’d be harder pressed to find some example where there wasn’t some discretion on how to implement major policies than one where everything went exactly by the books,” says one senior administration official involved in implementation.

Be that as it may, the regulatory solution reflects the fact that the legislative process around the health-care law is completely broken. Republicans won’t pass any legislation that makes the law work better. Improving the law, they fear, will weaken the arguments for repeal. But Democrats, of course, won’t permit repeal. So Congress is at a standstill, with no viable process for reforming or repairing the Affordable Care Act as problems arise. And so the White House is acting on its own.

As written, the employer mandate probably shouldn’t go into effect in 2014, or 2015, or ever. It should be reworked in Congress and then the replacement should be signed into law by the president. The White House’s delay might be better policy, but the way the delay was passed is part of a deeply broken process.

Full article at the link below:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/07/02/obamacares-employer-mandate-shouldnt-be-delayed-it-should-be-repealed/?hpid=z2

[elysiantraveller]

Funny how they always seem to dump this stuff on Fridays or before major travel holidays...

:rolleyes:

[johnhannibalsmith]

Perhaps the most relevant aspects of this move ...

...is that once again Dear Leader sells out his own rhetoric and gullible base and does everything in his power to remind them that he's just another bought and paid for politician that sure as hell ain't looking out for you or me.

[so.cal.fan]

I'll bet a huge majority in the House and a majority in the SEN. today would vote to appeal this obamanation called Obamacare.

[Valuist]

Big business must love Obama. They have the legal departments and lobbying power to cut deals.

Its smaller businesses that get killed by this administration.

[mostpost]

Perhaps the most relevant aspects of this move by the White House can be found in the paste below. From the Washington Post website tonight:
_________________________

Domenech has a point: This is a regulatory end-run of the legislative process. The law says the mandate goes into effect in 2014, but the administration has decided to give it until 2015 by simply refusing to enforce the penalties.

The administration says this kind of thing happens all the time. “I think you’d be harder pressed to find some example where there wasn’t some discretion on how to implement major policies than one where everything went exactly by the books,” says one senior administration official involved in implementation.

Be that as it may, the regulatory solution reflects the fact that the legislative process around the health-care law is completely broken. Republicans won’t pass any legislation that makes the law work better. Improving the law, they fear, will weaken the arguments for repeal. But Democrats, of course, won’t permit repeal. So Congress is at a standstill, with no viable process for reforming or repairing the Affordable Care Act as problems arise. And so the White House is acting on its own.

As written, the employer mandate probably shouldn’t go into effect in 2014, or 2015, or ever. It should be reworked in Congress and then the replacement should be signed into law by the president. The White House’s delay might be better policy, but the way the delay was passed is part of a deeply broken process. ]

I pretty much agree with everything Ezra Klein says in this article.
From the article:
By tying the penalties to how many full-time workers an employer has, and how many of them qualify for subsidies, the mandate gives employers a reason to have fewer full-time workers, and fewer low-income workers.
There are other kinds of mandates that don’t fall afoul of the same problems. “The employer mandate in the House bill was much better constructed from a policy point of view,” says Topher Spiro, director of health-care policy at the Center for American Progress. ”It was based on the percentage of payroll you spent on health care rather than on how many workers you had, so there’s not this weird disincentive related to part-time workers. But it didn’t have the political support to pass.”

The irony is that the worker-based employer mandate got passed in part because employers preferred it to a payroll-based mandate — a fact that puzzled Senate health aides at the time, but that they made peace with in
order to pass the bill.

The question is why did employers prefer the payroll-based mandate? Unless it was because they realized that it was a way to get around paying for insurance for their employees.

In any case, I do not feel this was the smartest move for the Obama administration, in as much as it gives critics another twelve months to claim Obama care is a failure and will result in draconian premium increases. Now if there are no significant increases in premiums, the detractors will merely say they have been delayed because the bill is not yet in effect.

[JustRalph]

http://www.redstate.com/2013/07/03/how-many-people-will-die-because-obamacare-suddenly-can-wait/

Interesting point.......how many are going to die due to the delay?

How much longer will Sandra Fluke have to wait to get ****ed?

[fast4522]

What is going to come to pass is the almighty dollar will lose its standing as the worlds standard, already China is cutting agreements with its trading partners and not converting to the US dollar for exchange of goods and services. All the Obama lovers will have a bright red ball between their teeth as they take it up the you know. Today big business gets a pass, tomorrow the young do not buy in to OBO care and the party really heats up with a implosion. Enjoy your BMW's and Audi's today, you will be spending on lesser next year guaranteed.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...

In any case, I do not feel this was the smartest move for the Obama administration, in as much as it gives critics another twelve months to claim Obama care is a failure and will result in draconian premium increases...

Really? That's your primary objection to this decision? All that fighting you do on behalf of labor vs. big corps, especially bottom labor, and you're distraught over the possible political repercussions?


I may have to re-visit a few old threads if I get bored.

[Tom]

This is illegal.
Obama cannot change a LAW passed by Congress.
It may be called Obama Care, but it is not his to change.

The repubs should be all over this ASAP.

The president has got to learn his place.

[newtothegame]

This is illegal.
Obama cannot change a LAW passed by Congress.
It may be called Obama Care, but it is not his to change.

The repubs should be all over this ASAP.

The president has got to learn his place.
Since when??? Maybe you didn't get the message...constitution and laws do not matter to the Great One!! :bang:

[Tom]

D'oh!
I forgot.

[Ocala Mike]

Not enforcing a law is not equivalent to changing a law, last I looked.

Before our time, but look up the Volstead Act (Prohibition).

[JustRalph]

http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/08/smallbusiness/obamacare-fatburger/index.html

As usual..........too little too late for business

[JustRalph]

http://dlvr.it/3n5Q9j

I know Mostie doesn't think this is really happening..........

Tell that to these guys........the union guys who are going on strike due to losing their hours

[OntheRail]

http://dlvr.it/3n5Q9j

I know Mostie doesn't think this is really happening..........

Tell that to these guys........the union guys who are going on strike due to losing their hours


SEIU Members help to polish that turd. Let 'em bask in the reality of it.

[JustRalph]

Still not happening

[Tom]

Now we know what was in it.

[mostpost]

Still not happening
The story which you did not bother to provide a link to said that NBC surveyed 20 small companies across the nation; twenty out of twenty three million. That is less than one one hundred thousandth of one percent. You can post as many anecdotal stories as you want, you are proving nothing.

But let's say the ACA is causing some companies to cut hours for some employees. How many of those companies were offering health care to their employees to begin with? Apparently none since they are now cutting hours to avoid offering it. If a small business was offering health care previously, then why stop now? Especially since they would now be receiving subsidies to help pay for it.

Yet, you use this specious argument to claim Obamacare should be repealed.
The ACA provides that a person can not be denied coverage because of a pre-existing condition. It provides that women can not be charged more then men. It provides a yearly and a lifetime cap on expenses. It provides for exchanges where individuals can purchase insurance at similar rates to what large groups are charged. It provides for coverage of preventive services.
It provides a lot of things which I think are very positive things.

What do you suppose would happen if the Obama administration offered a bill amending the ACA to eliminate or substantially change the employer mandate? I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt. The Republican House would vote against it and/or the Republicans in the Senate would filibuster it.

[sammy the sage]

.again...not ONE single REAL person has SAVED any money yet BECAUSE of this...

and again...I'll challenge ANYBODY for the 3rd time to post otherwise...

there are already MANY examples posted OF THE opposite happening ALREADY....

[jballscalls]

.again...not ONE single REAL person has SAVED any money yet BECAUSE of this...

and again...I'll challenge ANYBODY for the 3rd time to post otherwise...

there are already MANY examples posted OF THE opposite happening ALREADY....

I'm going to have to find a new non-employer health insurance in a few months. I'll let you know how the Obamacare stuff is.

[Clocker]

But let's say the ACA is causing some companies to cut hours for some employees. How many of those companies were offering health care to their employees to begin with? Apparently none since they are now cutting hours to avoid offering it. If a small business was offering health care previously, then why stop now? Especially since they would now be receiving subsidies to help pay for it.

How about a little company called McDonalds? They used to offer all of their employees healthcare plans called mini-med plans. They were low cost and they had capped total dollar benefits, but covered the employee and family in case of a big medical bill.

Mini-meds are illegal under ObamaCare, so McD dropped all benefits for hourly workers, and is cutting hours to avoid the employee mandate penalties.

[OntheRail]

Also Big 0 said consumer price protections... one of the key selling component will not roll out anytime soon. So for the time being people will have to pay more.. as we figure this all out :rolleyes: .

http://screen.yahoo.com/consumer-protection-obamacare-delayed-201735736-cbs.html

Yep saving Billions and making Trillions for the Insurance Complex. But savings for the Average or is that Outraged American, zip unless you consider the fuel saved not working one day a week, that is if they're lucky to get it cut like that. 2014 can't come fast enough.

[Clocker]

Also Big 0 said consumer price protections... one of the key selling component will not roll out anytime soon. So for the time being people will have to pay more.. as we figure this all out :rolleyes: .


Funny how all the delays and exceptions are to the benefit of businesses, and none of them benefit the average consumers, the ones that the Democrats swore and declared were going broke and were dying in the streets because of the lack of affordable health care. I remember Pelosi bemoaning the hundreds of people that would die every day that passage of the bill was delayed.

[JustRalph]

Keep peddling that bullshit. It's happening all ver the country.

Btw, a Repub has already offered a bill that keeps more money in the pocket of these workers by allowing them to work up to 39 hours before they are officially "full time"

The Dems balked.......but it's still up in the air

New today....
http://www.forbes.com/sites/richardsalsman/2013/08/13/obamacare-will-foster-a-part-time-jobs-bonanza-for-our-limp-economy/


The story which you did not bother to provide a link to said that NBC surveyed 20 small companies across the nation; twenty out of twenty three million. That is less than one one hundred thousandth of one percent. You can post as many anecdotal stories as you want, you are proving nothing.

But let's say the ACA is causing some companies to cut hours for some employees. How many of those companies were offering health care to their employees to begin with? Apparently none since they are now cutting hours to avoid offering it. If a small business was offering health care previously, then why stop now? Especially since they would now be receiving subsidies to help pay for it.

Yet, you use this specious argument to claim Obamacare should be repealed.
The ACA provides that a person can not be denied coverage because of a pre-existing condition. It provides that women can not be charged more then men. It provides a yearly and a lifetime cap on expenses. It provides for exchanges where individuals can purchase insurance at similar rates to what large groups are charged. It provides for coverage of preventive services.
It provides a lot of things which I think are very positive things.

What do you suppose would happen if the Obama administration offered a bill amending the ACA to eliminate or substantially change the employer mandate? I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt. The Republican House would vote against it and/or the Republicans in the Senate would filibuster it.

[sammy the sage]

Funny how all the delays and exceptions are to the benefit of businesses, and none of them benefit the average consumers..

HHHmmmm....doesn't this speak to THE bigger picture...that resident Prez. is FARTHER right than everybody WILL admit too....

[Clocker]

HHHmmmm....doesn't this speak to THE bigger picture...that resident Prez. is FARTHER right than everybody WILL admit too....

No, it speaks to his total incompetence. He really does want to steal from the rich and give to the poor, but he hasn't a clue about how to do it. And he has no comprehension of unintended consequences.

As a candidate, he said that he wanted to raise the capital gains tax so the rich would pay their fair share. A reporter pointed out that raising the rate on that tax always results in lower tax revenue, and cutting the rate always results in increased revenue. The reporter said if that is true, would you still raise the rate? And Obama said he would, if only "in the interest of fairness". In other words, if only to punish the rich.

He has no clue about the health care system or about ObamaCare. And he is proud that people call it that. If one of his people tells him that they have to change this or delay that to make it work, he just says do it. If that results in higher costs to the consumer, they can always apply for subsidies from the exchanges or just go on MedicAid. He thinks of himself as a big picture policy guy, and details are beneath him.

[OntheRail]

HHHmmmm....doesn't this speak to THE bigger picture...that resident Prez. is FARTHER right than everybody WILL admit too....

NO he's just pandering in the hope for campaign cash. People are red over this boat load of out right lies called ACA or as it's becoming known as The 0bamacareless Act.

[Mike at A+]

Or in a nutshell, he's in over his head. WAY over his head. His election and the OJ verdict are in the same category.

[Mike at A+]

There are too many people in today's Democrat Party who believe that the way to better themselves is by punishing people who are more successful than they are. They complain about the "super rich" and it ends up hurting the middle class.

[Tom]

Instead of aspiring to great heights, the libs plot to bring others down to their depths.

Funny how wealthy people are terrible to the libs, unless they are names Soros, or are banks or corporations contributing to Obama.

Reid, Pelosi, Obama, his wife, all get rich by questionable means, but that is fine and dandy. All they see is some working stiff buy a boat and immediately they want to raise his taxes.