Gibson Guitar: still under the thumb of the US government

[DJofSD]

http://blog.heritage.org/2013/06/03/forgotten-scandal-gibson-guitars-still-being-persecuted-for-doing-no-wrong/

And I thought this was resolved a long time ago. Wrong.

[classhandicapper]

Gibson should just pack their bags and move the manufacturing overseas. Why deal with this corrupt and inept government when the jobs will be welcomed overseas?

[so.cal.fan]

This was so outrageous. They targeted Gibson, because the owner supported Republicans. A competing company, very large, was NOT targeted. Their company owner supported Obama. Neither should have been targeted.
This was a ridiculous issue....something about wood they used, even though both these companies use the same wood.
Pure and simple violation of the Gibson guy's constitutional rights.
This administration is disgusting!

[DJofSD]

The issue of the type of wood and the violations are way, way behind Gibson. They're being subjected to a whim of the federal government.

And then yesterday apparently the IRS had to cough up some bucks they had withheld paying the state of Virginia. Again, no reasonable explanation other that the IRS did not want to.

[so.cal.fan]

Has this story been available in the mainstream media?
It is an absolute outrage! It really is.
The IRS should be abolished. Just like health care, we need a new system, but certainly not the one Obama wants to put in place.
The more this administration is in office, the more outrageous these incidents get. Do they even care....nope. They do not. :mad:

[DJofSD]

The Gibson story has been covered to an extent. I believe "60 Minutes" had it.

The IRS being ordered to pay Virginia was on CNBC yesterday or the day before.

[so.cal.fan]

Thanks, DJ I didn't see that show. Don't watch much TV these days.

I actually heard this on a CBS radio network show. Charley Jones Overnight.
I listen to this on the internet.
Charley went into the story in detail.

[FantasticDan]

http://blog.heritage.org/2013/06/03/forgotten-scandal-gibson-guitars-still-being-persecuted-for-doing-no-wrong/
And I thought this was resolved a long time ago. Wrong.Actually, right. The govt considers it resolved, and Gibson considers it resolved.

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/August/12-enrd-976.html

A TN lawmaker trying to make political hay in Colbert's Obama scandal booth doesn't make it otherwise.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/dk-production/images/33235/large/ScandalBooth.jpg

[Tom]

A TN lawmaker trying to make political hay in Colbert's Obama scandal booth doesn't make it otherwise.

In the world of problem solving, it is nowhere close to being resolved.
They have just reached the Containment stage.
Assigning root cause, implementing irreversible corrective action to ensure it will never happen again, and exploring preventative actions to make sure similar processes, or organizations are also upgraded to prevent a re-occurrence are the meat of the matter.

They have been ignored.
If I submitted something as slather-assed as this "resolution" I would lose a customer.

As Americans, we should all be outrages and vocal until this BS is stopped once and for all - by both parties.

[DJofSD]

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2014/02/03/Gibson-Celebrates-with-Limited-Edition-Guitar-with-Government-Seized-Wood

[JustRalph]

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2014/02/03/Gibson-Celebrates-with-Limited-Edition-Guitar-with-Government-Seized-Wood

Bullshit marketing

[mostpost]

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2014/02/03/Gibson-Celebrates-with-Limited-Edition-Guitar-with-Government-Seized-Wood
Once again breitbart publishes a misleading and deceptive story. Gibson Guitars was not cleared of wrongdoing. They struck a plea deal in which they paid a $300,000 fine, made a $50,000 contribution to some wildlife or environmental group and gave up claim to the wood the government confiscated.
http://www.triplepundit.com/2012/08/gibson-guitars-lawsuit-lacey-act/

I am sure you are asking, "If the government did not return the wood it confiscated, then how can Gibson be making guitars from that wood?"

Apparently there were two types of wood involved in the raid, ebony from Madagascar and rosenwood from India. The ebony was found to be illegal and was confiscated. The rosenwood was found to be legal and was returned. That is what is being used to make the new guitars.

Gibson knowingly bought wood illegally and now are trying to spin it that they are the aggrieved party.

[classhandicapper]

Once again breitbart publishes a misleading and deceptive story. Gibson Guitars was not cleared of wrongdoing. They struck a plea deal in which they paid a $300,000 fine, made a $50,000 contribution to some wildlife or environmental group and gave up claim to the wood the government confiscated.
http://www.triplepundit.com/2012/08/gibson-guitars-lawsuit-lacey-act/

I am sure you are asking, "If the government did not return the wood it confiscated, then how can Gibson be making guitars from that wood?"

Apparently there were two types of wood involved in the raid, ebony from Madagascar and rosenwood from India. The ebony was found to be illegal and was confiscated. The rosenwood was found to be legal and was returned. That is what is being used to make the new guitars.

Gibson knowingly bought wood illegally and now are trying to spin it that they are the aggrieved party.

1. So seizing the legal wood also and putting the company at a financial and competitive disadvantage was OK? Raiding factories with armed men OK?

2. It is also not clear that they knowingly bought the illegal wood. It sounds more like they knew there were some "possible" legal issues but decided to go ahead with continued purchases. Not very good controls or a very good idea.

If you ask me, they both screwed up badly. However, if I was the CEO of Gibson, I'd have to at least consider moving my factories out of the US if the economics are similar elsewhere.

I prefer Fender Stratocasters anyway. ;)

[DJofSD]

These guys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bcpofztr19E&feature=player_embedded) liked Fender too.

[mostpost]

1. So seizing the legal wood also and putting the company at a financial and competitive disadvantage was OK? Raiding factories with armed men OK?
Obviously it was not clear at the time that the wood was legal. Would you suggest they leave the wood there until its status could be determined? What would prevent Gibson from using the wood to build guitars, thereby gaining a financial and competitive advantage over its rivals? Aside from shutting down the facility entirely.
You do know that law enforcement personnel traditionally carry firearms when engaged in raids, right?

2. It is also not clear that they knowingly bought the illegal wood. It sounds more like they knew there were some "possible" legal issues but decided to go ahead with continued purchases. Not very good controls or a very good idea.
And not a very good response by you. If you were faced with a situation where an action you were about to take might be illegal, would you take that action or would you make darn sure of the legality before doing anything?

If you ask me, they both screwed up badly. However, if I was the CEO of Gibson, I'd have to at least consider moving my factories out of the US if the economics are similar elsewhere.
Why is the first instinct of conservatives to leave the United States? The people who profess to be the great patriots are the first to abandon ship when they feel mistreated. The problem is they are not being mistreated, they are merely being treated like everyone else.

I prefer Fender Stratocasters anyway. ;)
I don't know what that means, but I did like the youtube video that DJofSD posted.

[mostpost]

These guys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bcpofztr19E&feature=player_embedded) liked Fender too.
One of the comments to your youtube video said that John Jorgenson was a disciple of Django Reinhardt. I am nowhere near to enough of a musical expert to know if that is true. I do know that I enjoyed this video and I know that I really like Django.

I had never heard of Django Reinhardt until a few years ago. When I first started lurking at PA someone posted a video with a comment that said something like "Top this for the best popular music ever." The video looked like it was from the thirties or forties. A group of guys were sitting around playing cards. Everyone was smoking. Django Reinhardt was in a corner playing guitar and Stephane Grapelli was playing violin.

The link was up for sometime, but after awhile when you clicked on it you got a message, "this video has been removed for violation of terms a use.

Anyway, as a result of that I now have a couple of Reinhardt and Grappelli albums on my IPhone.

[incoming]

One of the comments to your youtube video said that John Jorgenson was a disciple of Django Reinhardt. I am nowhere near to enough of a musical expert to know if that is true. I do know that I enjoyed this video and I know that I really like Django.

I had never heard of Django Reinhardt until a few years ago. When I first started lurking at PA someone posted a video with a comment that said something like "Top this for the best popular music ever." The video looked like it was from the thirties or forties. A group of guys were sitting around playing cards. Everyone was smoking. Django Reinhardt was in a corner playing guitar and Stephane Grapelli was playing violin.

The link was up for sometime, but after awhile when you clicked on it you got a message, "this video has been removed for violation of terms a use.

Anyway, as a result of that I now have a couple of Reinhardt and Grappelli albums on my IPhone.



Thanks for a different flavored "lip stick" :kiss:

[classhandicapper]

One of the comments to your youtube video said that John Jorgenson was a disciple of Django Reinhardt. I am nowhere near to enough of a musical expert to know if that is true. I do know that I enjoyed this video and I know that I really like Django.

I had never heard of Django Reinhardt until a few years ago. When I first started lurking at PA someone posted a video with a comment that said something like "Top this for the best popular music ever." The video looked like it was from the thirties or forties. A group of guys were sitting around playing cards. Everyone was smoking. Django Reinhardt was in a corner playing guitar and Stephane Grapelli was playing violin.

The link was up for sometime, but after awhile when you clicked on it you got a message, "this video has been removed for violation of terms a use.

Anyway, as a result of that I now have a couple of Reinhardt and Grappelli albums on my IPhone.

There is a movie by Woody Allen called Sweet and Lowdown. That's where I got my introduction to Django and Grappelli. It's a terrific movie. I have a lot of their music now. It's fabulous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQhTpgicdx4

[mostpost]

There is a movie by Woody Allen called Sweet and Lowdown. That's where I got my introduction to Django and Grappelli. It's a terrific movie. I have a lot of their music now. It's fabulous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQhTpgicdx4
Thanks for posting that. Not only was it good, but I found the video I was referring to in my post above.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5jtcxtMzAE

I think it is extremely cool. I wish I knew what larger work that clip is from and I wish I could remember who posted it here originally.

[DJofSD]

One of the comments to your youtube video said that John Jorgenson was a disciple of Django Reinhardt. I am nowhere near to enough of a musical expert to know if that is true. I do know that I enjoyed this video and I know that I really like Django.

I had never heard of Django Reinhardt until a few years ago. When I first started lurking at PA someone posted a video with a comment that said something like "Top this for the best popular music ever." The video looked like it was from the thirties or forties. A group of guys were sitting around playing cards. Everyone was smoking. Django Reinhardt was in a corner playing guitar and Stephane Grapelli was playing violin.

The link was up for sometime, but after awhile when you clicked on it you got a message, "this video has been removed for violation of terms a use.

Anyway, as a result of that I now have a couple of Reinhardt and Grappelli albums on my IPhone.
Dig a little deeper concerning Django. You'll be even more amazed.

[mostpost]

Dig a little deeper concerning Django. You'll be even more amazed.
If you are referring to the fact that he badly burned his hand then retrained himself to play the guitar with only two fingers (and a thumb), I am aware of that. I can barely turn on my mp3 player and find the song I'm interested in and this man overcomes tragedy and becomes one of the great musicians of all time.

[DJofSD]

One of the comments to your youtube video said that John Jorgenson was a disciple of Django Reinhardt. I am nowhere near to enough of a musical expert to know if that is true. I do know that I enjoyed this video and I know that I really like Django.

Yes, it's true: http://www.johnjorgenson.com/index.php/bio/

That piece they played, "Inspector Gadget", while not a massive tour de force, it is the piece they played first. No easy warm up tune. It always blew me away.

And while Hellecasters are no longer a group, John is still active with his quintet. It's been a while since they've hit San Diego.