Health Care Again

[hcap]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/02/health/colonoscopies-explain-why-us-leads-the-world-in-health-expenditures.html?hp&_r=1&

http://www.motherjones.com/files/blog_colonoscopy.jpg

.....While the United States medical system is famous for drugs costing hundreds of thousands of dollars and heroic care at the end of life, it turns out that a more significant factor in the nation’s $2.7 trillion annual health care bill may not be the use of extraordinary services, but the high price tag of ordinary ones. “The U.S. just pays providers of health care much more for everything,” said Tom Sackville, chief executive of the health plans federation and a former British health minister.

[Ocala Mike]

hcap, I know you love charts and graphs. Isn't a lot of health care cost in this country simply about this?

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/15/how-much-do-doctors-in-other-countries-make/

[hcap]

Yes, read the times article. But it also has to do with how services are provided and of course big pharma.

[badcompany]

It also has to do with how many patients are in in a room. The more privacy, the greater the cost.

[delayjf]

I'm not sure but I watched a documentary on healthcare in Asia and Asian doctors made ever less while working 10-12 hour days.

[Tom]

The costs have to high to cover all the FREE services we provide those who cannot or will not pay.

[Marshall Bennett]

Ultimately the major issue will be medical staff shortage. There simply aren't enough doctors, nurses, technicians, ect. to accommodate the pressure of adding 40 million new patients to the system. Forget the cost, who wants to wait months for a procedure that they need NOW?

[RaceBookJoe]

Ultimately the major issue will be medical staff shortage. There simply aren't enough doctors, nurses, technicians, ect. to accommodate the pressure of adding 40 million new patients to the system. Forget the cost, who wants to wait months for a procedure that they need NOW?

Agreed, friend just told me that her and her husband who are in healthcare put their notices in to leave profession. She said they wont be able to handle the load..not worth it anymore.

[TJDave]

Ultimately the major issue will be medical staff shortage. There simply aren't enough doctors, nurses, technicians, ect. to accommodate the pressure of adding 40 million new patients to the system. Forget the cost, who wants to wait months for a procedure that they need NOW?

Bogus claim. Those 40 million are being serviced by the system, now. They just aren't being charged premiums. The ACA is all about putting people on insurance rolls and getting them at least partially off the dole.

[Tom]

Ultimately the major issue will be medical staff shortage. There simply aren't enough doctors, nurses, technicians, ect. to accommodate the pressure of adding 40 million new patients to the system. Forget the cost, who wants to wait months for a procedure that they need NOW?

Canadians? :rolleyes:

[Tom]

The ACA is all about putting people on insurance rolls and getting them at least partially off the dole.

No, it's aim is to screw up HC for the 90% who have it now so that the 10% who don't still won't.

No good comes out of the ACA.
It is not about health care.
That is the cover story.

[JustRalph]

I'm not sure but I watched a documentary on healthcare in Asia and Asian doctors made ever less while working 10-12 hour days.

American Doctors work that or more. In fact, most I worked with had a practice and hospital rounds twice a day. It was not unusual for them to work an 18 hour day. Mostly depends on the specialty. Even GP's often make hospital rounds

[JustRalph]

Bogus claim. Those 40 million are being serviced by the system, now. They just aren't being charged premiums. The ACA is all about putting people on insurance rolls and getting them at least partially off the dole.

Dave, when the floodgates open, it's going to be a mess. ER's are a mess now. You are going to add a huge amount of people to the line. I worked in an ER near Baltimore for a year (2011) and it was a mess. The nurses and Techs I worked with are all moving to private services etc. they are anticipating a horrible 2014 and beyond.

When I left there were 11 openings for nurses in the ER. I am told there are 28 openings now. Longest wait times when I left were around 9 hours. I was told a few months ago that number was now almost 11 hours ( they track it to the minute) what do you think it will be in summer of 2014?

[Marshall Bennett]

Bogus claim. Those 40 million are being serviced by the system, now.
Those 40 million aren't being serviced by the care Obama's plan is geared for. Those 40 million aren't receiving the quality of care you and I are.
Don't believe for a minute that many of that 40 million if not most are not in any system, because they're not willing to get it on their own. They don't do anything. They wait for the care to come to them just as they do with any other service or handout. The keynote is next year (2014). Come back in 18 months and tell us how it's going and again each year thereafter.
It will be a huge mess just as Obama's attempt to right the economy has turned out. Nearly everything Obama's put his hands on has turned to shit. His healthcare plan will be a huge dump.

[NJ Stinks]

It will be a huge mess just as Obama's attempt to right the economy has turned out. Nearly everything Obama's put his hands on has turned to shit. His healthcare plan will be a huge dump.

So the economy is still in the dumper? I guess you and I live on different planets. :rolleyes:

As far as this healthcare thing goes, one would think we would have figured out how to provide basic healthcare for all Americans by now. That we haven't can only be attributed to selfish people who already have theirs and don't care about anybody else but themselves and their own families. IMO, of course.

One thing people here disregard is the fact that most countries with social medicine programs also have private medical insurance and private providers too. So if you want to cut in line, Marshall, all it takes is money. Somebody will be there to grab it.

[RaceBookJoe]

So the economy is still in the dumper? I guess you and I live on different planets. :rolleyes:

As far as this healthcare thing goes, one would think we would have figured out how to provide basic healthcare for all Americans by now. That we haven't can only be attributed to selfish people who already have theirs and don't care about anybody else but themselves and their own families. IMO, of course.

One thing people here disregard is the fact that most countries with social medicine programs also have private medical insurance and private providers too. So if you want to cut in line, Marshall, all it takes is money. Somebody will be there to grab it.


Yeah, everything is great

1. The avg person has regained LESS than half of what they lost during the recession. $16T lost and $7.2T recovered..and thats with all of the QE wasted.
2. Disposable income getting lower.
3. April retail sales ex-autos was revised from a big beat to now a miss, actually a third of what was originally reported.
4. Job situation is atrocious :
a. if workforce participation held steady we would be over 11% unemployment
b. majority of jobs created are not only low-paying, but they are going to the 55 and older crowd. The 25-54 age group who spark the economy are still crushed.
5. Small business is strangled right now due to regulations, rising employee costs and the fact they cant even raise prices on their goods.
6. Even with all the free money, banks are still struggling to make profits
7. Jobs turning from fulltime to parttime..most likely due to 0-care.

Quick look overseas : EU at record unemployment. India, which is one of the potential big booming growth areas just posted their slowest growth in 10 yrs.

Looking ahead : if you consider the stock market as a sign of improving economy, then what is going to happen when the Fed tapers off and when interest rates start moving back up. Thats just off the top of my head.

Oh yeah, and for the record..this is planet Earth :)

[RaceBookJoe]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/06/03/democrats-new-argument-its-a-good-thing-that-obamacare-doubles-individual-health-insurance-premiums/

latest article

[Marshall Bennett]

You said it better than I ever could, Race. :ThmbUp: Seems the stock market is all the media points to as well. The market goes up 100+ points and the first item to be mentioned on the evening news is a recovering economy. As I posted on more than one other thread, we're in a world of shit economically and very few, including the government seem to care. It's really insane.

[JustRalph]

Take Texas and The Dakota's out of the unemployment picture and unemployment would be 16% depending who you believe.

[NJ Stinks]

Yeah, everything is great

1. The avg person has regained LESS than half of what they lost during the recession. $16T lost and $7.2T recovered..and thats with all of the QE wasted.
2. Disposable income getting lower.
3. April retail sales ex-autos was revised from a big beat to now a miss, actually a third of what was originally reported.
4. Job situation is atrocious :
a. if workforce participation held steady we would be over 11% unemployment
b. majority of jobs created are not only low-paying, but they are going to the 55 and older crowd. The 25-54 age group who spark the economy are still crushed.
5. Small business is strangled right now due to regulations, rising employee costs and the fact they cant even raise prices on their goods.
6. Even with all the free money, banks are still struggling to make profits
7. Jobs turning from fulltime to parttime..most likely due to 0-care.

Quick look overseas : EU at record unemployment. India, which is one of the potential big booming growth areas just posted their slowest growth in 10 yrs.

Looking ahead : if you consider the stock market as a sign of improving economy, then what is going to happen when the Fed tapers off and when interest rates start moving back up. Thats just off the top of my head.

Oh yeah, and for the record..this is planet Earth :)

So things aren't better than they were in 2008 by a mile?

If the average person regained almost half of what he lost under George Bush as you pointed out, the average person is well on the road to recovery no matter how you slice it.

Doom and gloom. That's all you guys got. And what happened to the conservative clingy thing that says "we don't give a shit what they do in Europe"? :jump:

[newtothegame]

So the economy is still in the dumper? I guess you and I live on different planets. :rolleyes:

As far as this healthcare thing goes, one would think we would have figured out how to provide basic healthcare for all Americans by now. That we haven't can only be attributed to selfish people who already have theirs and don't care about anybody else but themselves and their own families. IMO, of course.

One thing people here disregard is the fact that most countries with social medicine programs also have private medical insurance and private providers too. So if you want to cut in line, Marshall, all it takes is money. Somebody will be there to grab it.

Now why would you go after all those congressional members who refused to have ACA as thier own plans....??? NOT nice NJ......:lol:

[NJ Stinks]

Now why would you go after all those congressional members who refused to have ACA as thier own plans....??? NOT nice NJ......:lol:

ACA says if you are happy with the plan you have with your employer, you can keep it. That goes for all citizens - including those in Congress.

[newtothegame]

ACA says if you are happy with the plan you have with your employer, you can keep it. That goes for all citizens - including those in Congress.
But, and here's the kicker......
We have already seen (like it or not that some employers will drop employees and take the "penalty" forcing those emplotyees onto the government plans.....
Will the same be said for the congressional employer???? Hmm inquiring minds want to know......:lol:

[Tom]

selfish people who already have theirs and don't care about anybody else but themselves and their own families. IMO, of course.

You left out the part where we EARN ours, not have it handed to us.THAT is the huge difference.

[RaceBookJoe]

So things aren't better than they were in 2008 by a mile?

If the average person regained almost half of what he lost under George Bush as you pointed out, the average person is well on the road to recovery no matter how you slice it.

Doom and gloom. That's all you guys got. And what happened to the conservative clingy thing that says "we don't give a shit what they do in Europe"? :jump:

Unfortunately, most of us live in 2013, and things are pathetic even with massive fed pump..that was the point. If i hit you in the head with a bat 5 days ago, and today you wake up with 2 black eyes, skull fracture and brain damage, i guess i could say " at least you are better than you were 5 days ago", but not sure you would be happy. And you mentioned Bush, not me, nor did I mention the current clown..but this "recovery" is the lamest in history. My mention about Europe/India was to point out that things are sucking worldwide..makes it that much tougher to enjoy this "amazing recovery" :) Economy is shaky at best..but if you are thrilled with it, great.

[NJ Stinks]

Unfortunately, most of us live in 2013, and things are pathetic even with massive fed pump..that was the point. If i hit you in the head with a bat 5 days ago, and today you wake up with 2 black eyes, skull fracture and brain damage, i guess i could say " at least you are better than you were 5 days ago", but not sure you would be happy. And you mentioned Bush, not me, nor did I mention the current clown..but this "recovery" is the lamest in history. My mention about Europe/India was to point out that things are sucking worldwide..makes it that much tougher to enjoy this "amazing recovery" :) Economy is shaky at best..but if you are thrilled with it, great.

Good comeback. And I appreciate the civil tone too. :ThmbUp:

[RaceBookJoe]

Good comeback. And I appreciate the civil tone too. :ThmbUp:

I dont condone hitting people with baseball bats, but thats what most people probably felt like when they looked at their portfolios back then. :)

[NJ Stinks]

Unfortunately, most of us live in 2013, and things are pathetic even with massive fed pump..that was the point. If i hit you in the head with a bat 5 days ago, and today you wake up with 2 black eyes, skull fracture and brain damage, i guess i could say " at least you are better than you were 5 days ago", but not sure you would be happy. And you mentioned Bush, not me, nor did I mention the current clown..but this "recovery" is the lamest in history. My mention about Europe/India was to point out that things are sucking worldwide..makes it that much tougher to enjoy this "amazing recovery" :) Economy is shaky at best..but if you are thrilled with it, great.

Here's another guy who is more optimistic about the country's economic recovery than you are.
_______________________________

The Republican party acts like it’s 1999
By Dana Milbank (http://www.washingtonpost.com/dana-milbank/2011/02/24/ABhhJwI_page.html),
Jun 04, 2013 11:40 PM EDT

It’s beginning to feel like the late ’90s all over again.
Then, congressional Republicans howled themselves hoarse about Clinton administration scandals. But the indicators kept pointing to a booming economy, and support for President Bill Clinton climbed steeply through 1998 as House Republicans marched toward impeaching him.

Now, after a long economic winter, green shoots are everywhere: The stock market is booming, housing prices are rebounding and mortgage providers Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324744104578470821136050126.html), long demonized by Republicans, are returning profits to the Treasury (http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/fannie-mae-to-pay-594b-to-treasury/2013/05/09/4271e9f8-b89f-11e2-b94c-b684dda07add_story.html). Job growth has accelerated and consumer confidence has reached its highest level (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-31/michigan-consumer-sentiment-index-climbed-to-84-5-in-may.html) in almost six years. Health-care cost increases are slowing, Medicare’s prospects are improving (http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/medicare-trust-funds-life-extended-2-years-to-2026/2013/05/31/7efc7ca6-ca03-11e2-9245-773c0123c027_story.html) — in part because of President Obama’s health-care reforms — and gasoline prices are forecast to decline. Long-term fiscal problems remain, but the federal deficit is shrinking, putting off (http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/higher-revenues-lower-spending-might-mean-debt-limit-breather/2013/04/25/837c0f94-adcf-11e2-8bf6-e70cb6ae066e_story.html) Washington’s debt-ceiling standoff until late fall (http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/16/news/economy/debt-ceiling/index.html).

Yet House Republicans have shelved a serious legislative agenda this year in favor of 24/7 investigations. On Tuesday morning alone, they held two hearings probing alleged wrongdoing in the Obama administration. At a House education committee hearing in the Rayburn building, several Republicans grilled Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius over her fundraising for a nonprofit (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/05/10/budget-request-denied-sebelius-turns-to-health-executives-to-finance-obamacare/) that works to enroll people in new health-insurance programs. (Similar activities were undertaken by officials in the George W. Bush administration (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/30/AR2008043001271.html).)

Entire article at the link below:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-party-like-its-1999/2013/06/04/086bcb40-cd42-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_story.html?hpid=z3