Rudy Rodriquez

[tzipi]

I haven't heard or seen much of Rudy since the Vyjack thing and the positives they were looking at. I think he won a few early but haven't seen a thing from him since Derby day. I know he's winning 9% too I think. Which is way low for Rudy. Is this telling or just a slump? For the first time ever I am not even using his horses on top or really even below.

Anyone know his Belmont record since Derby day?

[fiveouttasix]

He is 0 for his last 22 at Belmont (many at short prices)
His last winner was Willy Elliott on May 18...paid $4.60 to win

[Stillriledup]

He should have a conversation with Cibelli.....as soon as these trainers start getting some heat, they forget how to train.

Amazing how that works.

[tzipi]

He should have a conversation with Cibelli.....as soon as these trainers start getting some heat, they forget how to train.

Amazing how that works.

Wow, figured he had maybe a win or two. Yeah I figured it was the recent heat with drugs. I haven't been using his horses at all recently. Like to see what he does today. Has a few decent short priced horses.

[Stillriledup]

Wow, figured he had maybe a win or two. Yeah I figured it was the recent heat with drugs. I haven't been using his horses at all recently. Like to see what he does today. Has a few decent short priced horses.

He's got a shot with 2 live ones in the 4th, his horse in the 5th i'm not really a fan of in that spot, but he does have some sort of shot there too i guess.

[tzipi]

Nada. Two seconds and a last place. I know there's heat with them watching him, but no wins since in close to 30 tries? Geez

[Stillriledup]

Nada. Two seconds and a last place. I know there's heat with them watching him, but no wins since in close to 30 tries? Geez

But its all a big misunderstanding. Just ask him.

[Robert Goren]

Nada. Two seconds and a last place. I know there's heat with them watching him, but no wins since in close to 30 tries? Geez You sound like you bet him. There are few worse bets than a cold trainer, no what the reason. Rudy has gone cold before and bounce backed. Until he does I just draw a line through his horses.

[tzipi]

You sound like you bet him. There are few worse bets than a cold trainer, no what the reason. Rudy has gone cold before and bounce backed. Until he does I just draw a line through his horses.

I will never bet a guy who's like 0-30 ha. No as I said before, I haven't been playing his horses at all because all his horses run horribly now since the Derby and drug questions. I just wanted to know his record since Derby. The "Nada, two seconds and a last place" was in response to Stillriledups post.

Still amazing though. I'm sure he'll have to get going again somehow because he's got some big NY owners backing him with horses. A lot of them Dutrow owners. They won't put up with losing like this for very long in my opinion.

[postpicker]

He is 0 for his last 22 at Belmont (many at short prices)
His last winner was Willy Elliott on May 18...paid $4.60 to win

Willy Elliot won on May 16 but then Rudy also had 2 victories at Pimlico on Preakness Day (May 18) with Aussi Austin in Race 1 and Sage Valley in the Grade 3 Md Sprint Handicap. Looking at Formulator, one can take these numbers and then determine how bad his losing streak his. He is either, 0 for his last 26, 2 for his last 33, 3 for his last 36, 5 for his last 45 or 7 for his last 53

[postpicker]

I will never bet a guy who's like 0-30 ha. No as I said before, I haven't been playing his horses at all because all his horses run horribly now since the Derby and drug questions. I just wanted to know his record since Derby. The "Nada, two seconds and a last place" was in response to Stillriledups post.

Still amazing though. I'm sure he'll have to get going again somehow because he's got some big NY owners backing him with horses. A lot of them Dutrow owners. They won't put up with losing like this for very long in my opinion.

Since the Derby he is 7 for 53.

[pandy]

You sound like you bet him. There are few worse bets than a cold trainer, no what the reason. Rudy has gone cold before and bounce backed. Until he does I just draw a line through his horses.


He hasn't been training that long and I don't think he's ever gone this cold. I have a feeling that he'll never be a high win percentage trainer again, not like before the 3 positives, anyway.

Some of you may remember when Oscar Barrera got a positive and went into a prolonged slump. I believe he lost over 100 straight races and never started winning again. His horses all looked lame and lagged at the back of the pack.

Not saying that Rudy's bad streak it that cold, he's still winning a few races here and there. Oscar just couldn't train horses without the juice.

[lamboguy]

Rudy only charges $95 a day and about $2500 a month in other services. for him to win now he is going to have to find the clients that spend $125 a day and $5000 a month in extra's. he will find the way to win in New York just like all the others that don't get positives.

[tzipi]

Since the Derby he is 7 for 53.

In my original post I was asking about Belmont since the Derby. Poster said he's 0-25 now with three loses yesterday.

[tzipi]

He hasn't been training that long and I don't think he's ever gone this cold. I have a feeling that he'll never be a high win percentage trainer again, not like before the 3 positives, anyway.

Some of you may remember when Oscar Barrera got a positive and went into a prolonged slump. I believe he lost over 100 straight races and never started winning again. His horses all looked lame and lagged at the back of the pack.

Not saying that Rudy's bad streak it that cold, he's still winning a few races here and there. Oscar just couldn't train horses without the juice.


Yeah Oscar came from nowhere and started leading the NY training titles, busted him and and he couldn't win for ages. Finger Lakes guy now,right?

[postpicker]

At Belmont?

at all tracks. Since Derby day Rudy is 5 for 48 at Belmont

[postpicker]

In my original post I was asking about Belmont since the Derby. Poster said he's 0-25 now with three loses yesterday.

I checked Formulator and I counted by hand, he is 7 for 53 overall, 5 for 48 at Belmont since the Derby. His winners at Belmont are Riptherubberoff and Belief Sytem on 5/6, Majestic Marquet and Rigby on 5/10 and Willy Elliot on 5/16. He does have the two winners on Preakness Day at Pimlico with Aussi Austin and Sage Valley. Rudy is 0 for his last 26 at Belmont since the Willy Elliot victory.

[pandy]

That Oscar Barrera at Finger Lakes is not "the" Oscar Barrera. I believe that's his son.

[tzipi]

at all tracks. Since Derby day Rudy is 5 for 48 at Belmont


Oh someone earlier said he was 0-22 at Belmont before yesterday since the Derby. Well 5-48 not so great either. Oh well.

He's got Castellano on a decent horse today and as much as I love Javier and the race, I just don't know if I can bet him on a Rudy horse. Short price anyway, so I won't be missing out.

[tzipi]

That Oscar Barrera at Finger Lakes is not "the" Oscar Barrera. I believe that's his son.

Oh I thought Oscar Barrera Sr. was sill up there.

[Stillriledup]

Oh I thought Oscar Barrera Sr. was sill up there.

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/04/06/obituaries/oscar-barrera-63-horse-trainer.html

[tzipi]

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/04/06/obituaries/oscar-barrera-63-horse-trainer.html


Wow, I was way off. Thanks for link Stilriled :ThmbUp:

[Stillriledup]

Wow, I was way off. Thanks for link Stilriled :ThmbUp:

I didnt realize he's been gone for 20 years either, i wasnt even 100 pct sure he wasnt still alive and sunning himself in a warm weather locale with all his shifty shiek profits.

[Stillriledup]

So, RRR is 'hiding' workouts and telling the Assn clockers at Belmont that Vyjack worked and the clocker just took his word for it and published the work?

[tzipi]

So, RRR is 'hiding' workouts and telling the Assn clockers at Belmont that Vyjack worked and the clocker just took his word for it and published the work?

Yeah I just saw that reading Daily News last night.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/theraces/2013/06/mysterious-workout-fuels-rodriguez-probe

[Tom]

I didnt realize he's been gone for 20 years either, i wasnt even 100 pct sure he wasnt still alive and sunning himself in a warm weather locale with all his shifty shiek profits.

Well, if he is sunning himself somewhere, I assure you it is NOT at Finger Lakes! :lol:

[Tom]

Yeah I just saw that reading Daily News last night.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/theraces/2013/06/mysterious-workout-fuels-rodriguez-probe

“It was a miscommunication,” Rodriguez said. “I tried to call him (the clocker). Everything is good. We never got together; I don’t know.”
My BS detector is going off.
Ban the horse from the Belmont. What's to investigate?
The horse worked or he did not.
Get everyone fro the stable - under oath - and promise to prosecute them if they lie. If the work is a fakle, lifetime ban. End of story.

[cnollfan]

Is this the appropriate thread to say I like Vyjack in the Belmont?

[Robert Fischer]

Is this the appropriate thread to say I like Vyjack in the Belmont?
:ThmbUp:

he's a nice animal, and will be an overlay. Looks like a must use.

[Robert Fischer]

http://www.drf.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/article_main/photos/Vyjack.Rodriguez,Rudy04.6-3-13.BL_.jpg photo by Barbara D. Livingston

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/Manowar1920.jpg/250px-Manowar1920.jpg

[precocity]

vyjack is a good play just toss out the derby in he has always won or been in the mix, its that dam trainer that gets to me.

[Saratoga_Mike]

My BS detector is going off.
Ban the horse from the Belmont. What's to investigate?
The horse worked or he did not.
Get everyone fro the stable - under oath - and promise to prosecute them if they lie. If the work is a fakle, lifetime ban. End of story.

First, I'm not a RR fan. But in this case, it seems like he's trying to do the right thing. He's reporting a work the clockers missed. Do you think he's making up the work? If so, why would he do that?

[Stillriledup]

First, I'm not a RR fan. But in this case, it seems like he's trying to do the right thing. He's reporting a work the clockers missed. Do you think he's making up the work? If so, why would he do that?

I'm not sure the debate is whether RRR is hiding a work.....its the idea that the clocker just took his word for it. Trainers hide works all the time, but i have to say that i would prefer my clocker to actually see a work before he puts it into the DRF that i read.

[Tom]

The premier race of track, and key information gathered this way?
No wonder people think races are fixed.

[jerry-g]

I was told once by a trainer in Ocala that anyone could call in a workout.
Even a child. I don't know if it is true or not but that is what he told me.

[pandy]

This whole event is ironic considering the fact that since the beginning of time the reporting of workouts has been inaccurate for many reasons including sneaky trainers, corrupt clockers, mistakes and inaccuracies, etc. Now all of a sudden because of this one incident they're acting like this was an isolated situation.

When I used to buy Andy Harrington's workout report, I was amazed at how many times he would note that a workout was wrong because the clocker got two horses confused, so that meant that two horses had completely inaccurate workouts. And the breezing/handily notations are a complete joke that no one ever tries to fix. In So. Cal. they almost never give a horse a "breezing", even though many of the horses are, in fact, breezing. At some tracks it's the exact opposite, every horse is breezing.

The bottom line is, workouts as reported in the pps have to be loosely interpreted because the system of reporting works sucks and a lot of the published information is incorrect. Works are missed, times are incorrect, breezing/handily notations are wrong, etc.

[Saratoga_Mike]

The premier race of track, and key information gathered this way?
No wonder people think races are fixed.

You're overreacting. You've never made a mistake at work? The clocker missed a work. The trainer reported the missed work. Unless you think RR is lying (if so, please explain why he would do this), there's no story here.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I was told once by a trainer in Ocala that anyone could call in a workout.
Even a child. I don't know if it is true or not but that is what he told me.

The training tracks in Ocala that are registered with equibase all report on the honor system (i.e., self-reported). I believe FairHill (where Matz and Trombetta have a lot horses) is this way, too.

[pandy]

That's true and of course many if not most works on various farms and training centers are not reported. That's why you see many homebred first time starters win at prices that are owned and trained by the same person and show anywhere from No works to one or two works coming into their debut yet they win. Obviously the horse had plenty more works but they weren't recorded. Another thing that I'm not sure that people understand, a horse doesn't need a workout to be in winning shape.

Morning gallops and jogs condition a horse, and are not recorded or reported in any way. Sometimes players see that a horse shows no works since its last start and view that as a bad sign but meanwhile the horse may have galloped or jogged several times a week and is better conditioned that it was before its last start. Horses also walk to get exercise (and some swim).

Gasper Moschera rarely worked his horses and he had many horses that he claimed that ran often, won often, and had long, successful stints under his care. Moschera said that many trainers work their horses too hard. He believed that horses stay sounder without workouts in between races and he was especially against hard, fast works.

[Tom]

You're overreacting. You've never made a mistake at work? The clocker missed a work. The trainer reported the missed work. Unless you think RR is lying (if so, please explain why he would do this), there's no story here.

Yes, I have.
But I never fudge data.
I would lose my certifications if I ever did that and got caught.
Ethics would prevent this type of behavior.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Yes, I have.
But I never fudge data.
I would lose my certifications if I ever did that and got caught.
Ethics would prevent this type of behavior.

I actually think we're in agreement. You want accurate data. In this case, I don't see any reason for RR to lie about the work (with a dead lame horse who needs to show a work in order to race, I could see a reason for making up a work). RR reports the work to the clocker. The clocker reports the work to equibase. If the clocker had said, "the hell with it, I'm not reporting it," everyone would say "the clocker withheld important info from us."

The clocker has two choices: 1) report the work (relying on RR's word - in this case, RR has no reason to make up the work that I can think of??? or 2) not report the work. You're the clocker. You missed the work. It's 1 OR 2. There's no other choice. 1 or 2????????????????????????

[Tom]

Why does a multi-billion dollar industry have such a Mon&Pop system in the first place?

[tzipi]

If horse racing was for fun and had no betting, then fine but when people are spending their hard earned money or people are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars, let's make it as accurate as can be. Have spot on information for your customers.

[Charli125]

The training tracks in Ocala that are registered with equibase all report on the honor system (i.e., self-reported). I believe FairHill (where Matz and Trombetta have a lot horses) is this way, too.

Not related to this incident specifically, which I'm not familiar with, but the bolded portion is a problem for me. The honor system doesn't work if everyone isn't honorable. I wish there was a way for us all to have accurate timed workouts to eliminate the guess work. There should be speculation on HOW they accomplished the work, but not on when, where, and how fast it was.

[pandy]

The thing that bothers me the most about workouts is the breeze/handily connotations. I can't understand why there isn't some sort of industry standard. It''s not rocket science. If a horse does it on its own power it's a breeze. If the rider uses the whip or asks the horse it's not. There's a huge difference between 4 furlongs breezing in :47 and 4 furlongs pushed out in :47.

[Stillriledup]

I actually think we're in agreement. You want accurate data. In this case, I don't see any reason for RR to lie about the work (with a dead lame horse who needs to show a work in order to race, I could see a reason for making up a work). RR reports the work to the clocker. The clocker reports the work to equibase. If the clocker had said, "the hell with it, I'm not reporting it," everyone would say "the clocker withheld important info from us."

The clocker has two choices: 1) report the work (relying on RR's word - in this case, RR has no reason to make up the work that I can think of??? or 2) not report the work. You're the clocker. You missed the work. It's 1 OR 2. There's no other choice. 1 or 2????????????????????????

How about the DRF reporting the work with an asterik, that way, we can know that the clocker didnt actually see the work and its a work that has just been reported by a trainer?

If they dont want to go to the asterik system, i'd prefer leaving it blank, that way, i can decide if maybe the horse worked and the clocker missed it. If they publish a work they didnt actually see and the trainer told them about, there's no way i can know if that's the case.

[cnollfan]

The thing that bothers me the most about workouts is the breeze/handily connotations. I can't understand why there isn't some sort of industry standard. It''s not rocket science. If a horse does it on its own power it's a breeze. If the rider uses the whip or asks the horse it's not. There's a huge difference between 4 furlongs breezing in :47 and 4 furlongs pushed out in :47.

Many years ago at AkSarBen, if the clocker thought the horse looked good, he called it "handily". If the horse was just so-so, he called it "breezing." It was a great tool for a while to upgrade all the horses with h workouts.