Fast Food Factories? W Does it again.

[Rick]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/20/business/20jobs.html

[Secretariat]

My God....this is unbeleivable....GW is definately losing it.

I guess if you can't play by the guidelines of other adminstrations, fix it so that you can lie with statistics, but I guess these are the kind of jobs Lefty has been referring to.

I cannot beleive this!!! Thanks Rick. This alone is suffiicent reason to boot this idiot out of office.

Since you had to subscribe to the NY Times to view this I am posting here, because it has got to be read.


In the New Economics: Fast-Food Factories?
By DAVID CAY JOHNSTON

Published: February 20, 2004

Is cooking a hamburger patty and inserting the meat, lettuce and ketchup inside a bun a manufacturing job, like assembling automobiles?

That question is posed in the new Economic Report of the President, a thick annual compendium of observations and statistics on the health of the United States economy.

The latest edition, sent to Congress last week, questions whether fast-food restaurants should continue to be counted as part of the service sector or should be reclassified as manufacturers. No answers were offered.

In a speech to Washington economists Tuesday, N. Gregory Mankiw, chairman of the president's Council of Economic Advisers, said that properly classifying such workers was "an important consideration" in setting economic policy.

Counting jobs at McDonald's, Burger King and other fast-food enterprises alongside those at industrial companies like General Motors and Eastman Kodak might seem like a stretch, akin to classifying ketchup in school lunches as a vegetable, as was briefly the case in a 1981 federal regulatory proposal.

But the presidential report points out that the current system for classifying jobs "is not straightforward." The White House drew a box around the section so it would stand out among the 417 pages of statistics.

"When a fast-food restaurant sells a hamburger, for example, is it providing a 'service' or is it combining inputs to 'manufacture' a product?" the report asks.

"Sometimes, seemingly subtle differences can determine whether an industry is classified as manufacturing. For example, mixing water and concentrate to produce soft drinks is classified as manufacturing. However, if that activity is performed at a snack bar, it is considered a service."

The report notes that the Census Bureau's North American Industry Classification System defines manufacturing as covering enterprises "engaged in the mechanical, physical or chemical transformation of materials, substances or components into new products."

Classifications matter, the report says, because among other things, they can affect which businesses receive tax relief. "Suppose it was decided to offer tax relief to manufacturing firms," the report said. "Because the manufacturing category is not well defined, firms would have an incentive to characterize themselves as in manufacturing. Administering the tax relief could be difficult, and the tax relief may not extend to the firms for which it was enacted."

David Huether, chief economist for the National Association of Manufacturers, said he had heard that some economists wanted to count hamburger flipping as manufacturing, which he noted would produce statistics showing more jobs in what has been a declining sector of the economy.

"The question is: If you heat the hamburger up are you chemically transforming it?" Mr. Huether said.

His answer? No.


All I can say is thank you Rick, I might have missed this one. My God.

[Rick]

Sec,

I didn't have to subscribe. I got there from another site:

http://www.agonist.org/

A really interesting place for the latest news. He probably leans to the left if anyone's afraid to go there but I read them all, left and right and make up my own mind. I call myself an independent. Some extremists on both sides say I just don't have an opinion and am stupid or something. Oh well!

[Secretariat]

Thanks. The Agonist site looks very interesting. Lots to read.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by Rick
Sec,

I call myself an independent. Some extremists on both sides say I just don't have an opinion and am stupid or something.

Sounds like you should be on the Supreme Court (not the stupid part, just tough to find an independent thinker who's open to all points of view anymore, especially on the bench)

[Steve 'StatMan']

OK, the economists issue a report with all their economics talk and view of the world as only ecomomists would dare to admit seeing it. This 'Presidential Commision' releases their report and all their research and reporting, giberish, etc. What does GW actually have to do with this, other than he's expected to read and listen to what they're telling him? I know this sounds like pretty strange stuff, but where does it say that this is how GW thinks? Does he even agree with it? Isn't this just the economic eggheads talking?

[Tom]

Originally posted by Steve'StatMan'BTW
.... Isn't this just the economic eggheads talking?

Egghead McMuffins.

[Rick]

Steve,

You don't think this has anything to do with trying to manipulate the data so that your guy's not embarassed by something that looks really bad? And you don't think that Dubya appreciates their efforts? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that W is the only one who's ever tried this. All political weasels from both parties think its perfectly OK to do stuff like this. And I expect them to. I just get a big laugh out of it when they get caught.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Well, Rick, I know they all try to manipulate numbers as needed, but I don't think the Pres. is wanting to do this. I think this an University Economist that is doing his spouting his principles and ideas, and while one could see an errie point to it, to all of us in the real world, it isn't very encouraging to know this kind of thinking is being done by someone advising the President, regardless of what party he's from.

Just recently, this same Ecomomist, N. Gregory Mankiw, made comments regarding the outsourcing of high tech jobs overseas as being GOOD for the economy. Some embarasment to the Administration was caused by this. I'd do more searching on this, but really would rather not, and oddly enough, the first article I found on regarding this speech was a praise of it by other Economists!

While reducing the costs by importing less expensive good, and now turning to less expensive labor outside the country sounds great to an Economist, to those in the real world who get downsized and lose their jobs and still have to pay their mortgages, etc., we really don't want to hear that. Maybe people find new jobs or get retrained over the course of 2-5 years or so, but egads the human emotional toll is quite high. So technically right long term or not, for all the uncertainty and grief that causes, even if it goes right, the last thing anyone wants to hear from a person supposedly advising the President and the Governement is that people losing their jobs here is a good thing.

So I don't know if the Pres. agrees with or supports what Prof. Mankiw line of thinking, I hope not, but if the Prof. wants to tell this to the American Public in a position presmumed to speak for the President, I'd put my $2 bet on him being asked to step down from his advisory position. No leader needs the people thinking he wants them to lose their jobs! The Dems. understandably have jumped on it, but I don't think the Repubs. agree with this either. This guys a political liabiliy, and much worse if it is truly unendorsed.

I've heard the old quote that it is best for the people not to know how their laws and sausages are made. Maybe economic policies need to be added to that list as well.

Sorry Rick - you're all right! It is this Prof. Mankiw guy, those like him, and those who listen to him that I'm worried about.

[Secretariat]

Let's just look at this one more time:

"That question is posed in the new Economic Report of the PRESIDENT, a thick annual compendium of observations and statistics on the health of the United States economy.

The latest edition, sent to Congress last week, questions whether fast-food restaurants should continue to be counted as part of the service sector or should be reclassified as manufacturers. No answers were offered.

In a speech to Washington economists Tuesday, N. Gregory Mankiw, chairman of the PRESIDENT'S Council of Economic Advisers, said that properly classifying such workers was "an important consideration" in setting economic policy."

It is called the PRESIDENT's Report and he is the CHAIRMAN of the PRESIDENT's COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISORS.

I gotta tell ya if Clinton did this you guys would be all over his case, and RIGHTLY SO. This would be funny, if it weren't so funny as Yogi Berra would say.

[JustRalph]

you are employed by the DNC aren't you? really are you?

[kenwoodallpromos]

JustRalph= Smart-aleck! I cannot even put 1 av on mine! Where's George Jones and Teddy? / MFG- Clinton would count methlabs! Tell bush to make sure he counts bartenders! Is Bush counting the CIA and their WMD reports?LOL!! / I tink Yogi once said "You win if you manufacture runs but don't get caught servicing the ball girls".

[Secretariat]

Surely JR, even you are not defending this action by the adminstration.

[kenwoodallpromos]

I love bad mouthing both parties! I wanted to see a Perot-Nader ticket!

[Secretariat]

Actually, they'd make for a helluva debate. I'd love to hear Perot's ideas today.

[kenwoodallpromos]

I always liked his pie charts! Maybe he would have one for % of employee time involved in making the burgers!

[Rick]

Do chicken pluckers count as manufacturing jobs>

[Tom]

Originally posted by Rick
Do chicken pluckers count as manufacturing jobs>
Now you are talking about politicians, I believe. :D

[Rick]

Was Perot right? NAFTA's not looking too good these days.

[Tom]

It's that loud sucking sound we are still hearing.
Anyway you make a deal between the US and Mexico, the US has to come up short. They just have noting to offer in any deal that could benefit us.

[Rick]

Tom,

Let's take all their oil and give back their illegal immigrants.

[kenwoodallpromos]

hiding loss of mfg offshore by inflating#s puts no money in my pocket! / Service jobs are being shipped overseas too! HP has 30% profit last quarter thanks to my calls being routed to India then to Canada! When we start getting Big Macs, Jumbo Jacks, etc. that come frozen from Iraq or Afghanistan then I will Really worry! Might be a terrorist injecting himself with rabies then spitting in each one! (I would include Somalia but Clinton managed to lose that one in record time!)LOL!!

[Steve 'StatMan']

If they reclassify Mr. Donalds as a manufacturing job, I'd hate to see the cost of my Value Meals once the Teamsters organize the Burger Makers! Even Ronald McDonald would no longer be able to keep that painted smile on!

[Rick]

The thing that bugs me most about outsourcing is customer service jobs. When you can't understand what the guy is saying it doesn't leave a really good impression of the company.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Rick
The thing that bugs me most about outsourcing is customer service jobs. When you can't understand what the guy is saying it doesn't leave a really good impression of the company.

try being a Tech Support/Call Center manager.....when every damn company in the country is sending their call centers overseas. There are very few jobs and dozens of experienced managers looking for work.

I am hearing rumblings about customers raising hell about the lack of quality support from the overseas locations. That may bring the jobs back eventually.........

[hcap]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16015-2004Feb29.html

Rep. John Dingell (D-Mich.) letter to Gregory Mankiw, chairman of President Bush's Council of Economic Advisers:

"I am sure the 163,000 factory workers who have lost their jobs in Michigan will find it heartening to know that a world of opportunity awaits them in high growth manufacturing careers like spatula operator, napkin restocking, and lunch tray removal. . . . Will special sauce now be counted as a durable good?"

Noting that the post of assistant secretary for manufacturing remains unfilled, Dingell nominates "a public official who would be perfect for the job," with "over thirty years of administrative and media experience": the Hon. Mayor McCheese.