IMHO : ORB never got into the race. And he didn't like track.

[BeatTheChalk]

And the "::" OTHER O ":": WON THE RACE. Stevens rode a fantastic race and I think his part in the HBO movie -- Took him to a higher place. WTG

[nijinski]

It's happened before that a horse didn't take to a particular track .

Every year that goes by makes the past triple crown winners that much
more special !

[ArlJim78]

as they were loading, watching NBC in hi-def one thing that struck me was how deep the track looked. I'm not sure who that helped or hurt, but it's easy to think that some horses might not have cared for it.

[BlueChip@DRF]

It's happened before that a horse didn't take to a particular track .

Every year that goes by makes the past triple crown winners that much
more special !


And for this reason alone is why they should not change the format for the Triple Crown races.

[Tom]

And for this reason alone is why they should not change the format for the Triple Crown races.

Exactly - champions don't need to bring their track with them. the fact that we have not hat a TC winner in so many years is a testimony of the greatness of the few there are.

[keithw84]

Exactly - champions don't need to bring their track with them. the fact that we have not hat a TC winner in so many years is a testimony of the greatness of the few there are.

And it's interesting how hindsight has shown that the TC winners truly were champions, while many of the near-misses were flashes in the pan. Compare Seattle Slew's and Affirmed's post TC careers to Real Quiet's inconsistent career, or Big Brown's two races, or in other cases, no races!

Of course, some of the Triple Crown hopefuls who fell short (The Bid, Alysheba) maybe would've been deserving of being mentioned in the same breath as the TC winners... but the great thing about the TC is how challenging it is. It is a measure of greatness because a fluke horse can't win.

[BlueChip@DRF]

And it's interesting how hindsight has shown that the TC winners truly were champions, while many of the near-misses were flashes in the pan. Compare Seattle Slew's and Affirmed's post TC careers to Real Quiet's inconsistent career, or Big Brown's two races, or in other cases, no races!

Of course, some of the Triple Crown hopefuls who fell short (The Bid, Alysheba) maybe would've been deserving of being mentioned in the same breath as the TC winners... but the great thing about the TC is how challenging it is. It is a measure of greatness because a fluke horse can't win.

True. And it better stay that way.

[RXB]

And it's interesting how hindsight has shown that the TC winners truly were champions, while many of the near-misses were flashes in the pan. Compare Seattle Slew's and Affirmed's post TC careers to Real Quiet's inconsistent career, or Big Brown's two races, or in other cases, no races!

Of course, some of the Triple Crown hopefuls who fell short (The Bid, Alysheba) maybe would've been deserving of being mentioned in the same breath as the TC winners...

No "maybe" required for Spectacular Bid.

[dilanesp]

And it's interesting how hindsight has shown that the TC winners truly were champions, while many of the near-misses were flashes in the pan. Compare Seattle Slew's and Affirmed's post TC careers to Real Quiet's inconsistent career, or Big Brown's two races, or in other cases, no races!

Of course, some of the Triple Crown hopefuls who fell short (The Bid, Alysheba) maybe would've been deserving of being mentioned in the same breath as the TC winners... but the great thing about the TC is how challenging it is. It is a measure of greatness because a fluke horse can't win.

Omaha and Sir Barton and Assault were not that good. Count Fleet and Seattle Slew had short careers.

And Spectacular Bid was probably better than any Triple Crown winner, and certainly better than nine of them (including the one he lost to). Native Dancer was better than a lot of them too.

The Triple Crown is a showcase, but it isn't a measure of greatness. And there is a serious question whether we should keep paying so much attention now that the races are full of horses with 5 starts.

[nijinski]

Omaha and Sir Barton and Assault were not that good. Count Fleet and Seattle Slew had short careers.

And Spectacular Bid was probably better than any Triple Crown winner, and certainly better than nine of them (including the one he lost to). Native Dancer was better than a lot of them too.

The Triple Crown is a showcase, but it isn't a measure of greatness. And there is a serious question whether we should keep paying so much attention now that the races are full of horses with 5 starts.

Slew suffered a life threatening illness during his racing career and
also had persistent back problems . His cocky owners sent him west after the TC and did him an injustice . I have tremendous admiration for him and believe he deserves the great honor he gets . Every bit of it .
I agree the Bid was a phenomenal racehorse . totally agree !

[Maximillion]

Ironic that at this time last year it looked like we had two budding 3yo stars.

Little did we know we would never hear from them again.

[dilanesp]

Slew suffered a life threatening illness during his racing career and
also had persistent back problems . His cocky owners sent him west after the TC and did him an injustice . I have tremendous admiration for him and believe he deserves the great honor he gets . Every bit of it .
I agree the Bid was a phenomenal racehorse . totally agree !

And I agree Seattle Slew deserves his accolades (although I don't think his connections were responsible for his problems). Heck, he deserves them for the 1978 Jockey Club Gold Cup alone! All I mean is that he's sort of hard to rate against the pantheon of great horses because he had a shortened career.

Of course, if we ever had a Triple Crown winner now, he'd probably have between 0 and 2 starts after winning it, so maybe Slew's career isn't abbreviated at all by modern standards. :)

[pandy]

Omaha and Sir Barton and Assault were not that good. Count Fleet and Seattle Slew had short careers.

And Spectacular Bid was probably better than any Triple Crown winner, and certainly better than nine of them (including the one he lost to). Native Dancer was better than a lot of them too.

The Triple Crown is a showcase, but it isn't a measure of greatness. And there is a serious question whether we should keep paying so much attention now that the races are full of horses with 5 starts.

The three Triple Crown winners I saw, Affirmed, Slew and Big Red were certainly three of the greatest horses of all time.

[nijinski]

The three Triple Crown winners I saw, Affirmed, Slew and Big Red were certainly three of the greatest horses of all time.

I find it amazing that we had three of them in the 70's . I also don't have any
less respect for those who won two and couldn't win all three . That short time span for a three year old to win at three different tracks with three different distances . Beginning with the calvary charge that the Derby is and ending with enough wind and stamina to win the Belmont . Any horse that can do that is a solid champion worthy of the highest honors .

[nijinski]

And I agree Seattle Slew deserves his accolades (although I don't think his connections were responsible for his problems). Heck, he deserves them for the 1978 Jockey Club Gold Cup alone! All I mean is that he's sort of hard to rate against the pantheon of great horses because he had a shortened career.

Of course, if we ever had a Triple Crown winner now, he'd probably have between 0 and 2 starts after winning it, so maybe Slew's career isn't abbreviated at all by modern standards. :)

If you haven't read Haskin's Life and Death of Slew , you may enjoy it and change your mind about the connections .
I do not blame them for his physical aliments but they did some dumb things with him . That article points out the insisting of him to run in Cali three weeks after the Belmont and the Xerox nonsense . They were lucky he lasted
as long as he did , with thanks to Billy and his groom Polsten .

[JustRalph]

The three Triple Crown winners I saw, Affirmed, Slew and Big Red were certainly three of the greatest horses of all time.

I urge anybody who is too young to remember these horses to hit Youtube and watch those races. These were real race horses. In the mold of the past. None of these guys were hugely interested in "tactics" these guys did one thing. They went out and dared anybody to go with them. Even when they employed different strategies, it was from mid pack forward usually.

We rarely see this anymore. That's why I was enamored with Rachel A. That was an old school come and get me race horse.

While you're on youtube watch Holy Bull. It makes PA very happy.......and that horse fits my definition

[JPinMaryland]

the only problem is these are the same breed of horse, coming out of the same gene pool. It's not like they don't care anymore or are somehow an inferior breed or they got paid millions so now they aren't trying. There's the same level of competiveness that is driving the trainers and the breeders, there's no reason to think these horses have changed genetically or mentally.

You could argue about drugs and shortened campaigns. BUt drugs were prevalent even the 70s and campaigns have been getting shorter each decade I think since the 50s.

[CincyHorseplayer]

I urge anybody who is too young to remember these horses to hit Youtube and watch those races. These were real race horses. In the mold of the past. None of these guys were hugely interested in "tactics" these guys did one thing. They went out and dared anybody to go with them. Even when they employed different strategies, it was from mid pack forward usually.

We rarely see this anymore. That's why I was enamored with Rachel A. That was an old school come and get me race horse.

While you're on youtube watch Holy Bull. It makes PA very happy.......and that horse fits my definition

I am definitely feeling and knowing you on this and felt the same way about Rachel A.I like the I am biggest,baddest,fastest,come fight me attitude.I'm only 40 but I remember thinking the same thing about the Leonard-Hagler fight when I was a little kid.You have to fight all out if you want to win.Fitness at it's ultimate in this sport embodies speed and that nasty will to look the other horse in the eye and run it into the ground.I don't totally subscribe to the greatness of any closer.Anything that disadvantages themselves by definition.To me,while I am disappointed about Orb,the hurt in one night's sleep has evaporated knowing that he wasn't that good.It didn't have to be a Secretariat evolution but seeing that horse over his TC evolve speed and will and nastiness.That's what it takes.

[dilanesp]

If you haven't read Haskin's Life and Death of Slew , you may enjoy it and change your mind about the connections .
I do not blame them for his physical aliments but they did some dumb things with him . That article points out the insisting of him to run in Cali three weeks after the Belmont and the Xerox nonsense . They were lucky he lasted
as long as he did , with thanks to Billy and his groom Polsten .

I remember that Billy Turner was an alcoholic and told the California press the horse was in prefect condition before the Swaps. (Unlike Johnny Longden before the Belmont with Majestic Prince, who told everyone that horse shouldn't run.)

Turner got fired, and held a big grudge because that and the alcohol ruined his career. So he trashed the owners to reporters.

Unfortunately, he's the source for all the Seattle Slew prose, so he has turned himself into a hero.

Don't believe sports biographies. This sort of thing is common.

[nijinski]

I remember that Billy Turner was an alcoholic and told the California press the horse was in prefect condition before the Swaps. (Unlike Johnny Longden before the Belmont with Majestic Prince, who told everyone that horse shouldn't run.)

Turner got fired, and held a big grudge because that and the alcohol ruined his career. So he trashed the owners to reporters.

Unfortunately, he's the source for all the Seattle Slew prose, so he has turned himself into a hero.

Don't believe sports biographies. This sort of thing is common.

My memory was that he said he needed a break . I believe the owners admitted their mistake . I know Billy was an alcoholic , he was going to crash sooner or later but he did right by the horse , and Slew was not the easiest
horse to manage .

[dilanesp]

The three Triple Crown winners I saw, Affirmed, Slew and Big Red were certainly three of the greatest horses of all time.

If you go 50 or 100 deep, sure. But Seattle Slew's career isn't long enough to compare to horses who had full seasons and won lots of races. How do you compare Slew to Stymie or Round Table or even Cigar?

Slew had a ton of ability, but he really didn't have that big list of race wins, and the only time he faced top class open competition was the 2 races against Affirmed. He really lacks the resume.

He was probably no better than the 6th most accomplished horse of his decade (Ack Ack, Secretariat, Forego, Affirmed, Spectacular Bid), and he may be lower. He's really not on any reasonably short list of all time great horses. Had he been able to run more, perhaps he would have been.

[CincyHorseplayer]

If you go 50 or 100 deep, sure. But Seattle Slew's career isn't long enough to compare to horses who had full seasons and won lots of races. How do you compare Slew to Stymie or Round Table or even Cigar?

Slew had a ton of ability, but he really didn't have that big list of race wins, and the only time he faced top class open competition was the 2 races against Affirmed. He really lacks the resume.

He was probably no better than the 6th most accomplished horse of his decade (Ack Ack, Secretariat, Forego, Affirmed, Spectacular Bid), and he may be lower. He's really not on any reasonably short list of all time great horses. Had he been able to run more, perhaps he would have been.

That's like saying Sugar Ray Robinson wasn't great because he fought in Joe Louis' Era.Conversations like this IMO are flat out overthought into ignorance.Your intellectual discourse took you to a place where it is a lose lose theory.

[nijinski]

If you go 50 or 100 deep, sure. But Seattle Slew's career isn't long enough to compare to horses who had full seasons and won lots of races. How do you compare Slew to Stymie or Round Table or even Cigar?

Slew had a ton of ability, but he really didn't have that big list of race wins, and the only time he faced top class open competition was the 2 races against Affirmed. He really lacks the resume.

He was probably no better than the 6th most accomplished horse of his decade (Ack Ack, Secretariat, Forego, Affirmed, Spectacular Bid), and he may be lower. He's really not on any reasonably short list of all time great horses. Had he been able to run more, perhaps he would have been.

He missed time at a vital age of his career . Nearly died of colitis , which
is what we watched Paynter battle .
Two races against Affirmed is huge . Another TC winner , not too shabby.

One thing for sure . Whatever accomplishment you feel he didn't do on the track , he made up for in the shed ! :)