IRS scandal

[ArlJim78]

as the regime melts down, might as well add another scandal to the mix.

Report: Top IRS officials knew in 2011 that conservative groups were targeted (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/report-top-irs-officials-knew-in-2011-that-conservative-groups-were-targeted/2013/05/11/2619face-ba7b-11e2-b94c-b684dda07add_story.html)

"Details of the inspector general’s audit, obtained by The Washington Post from a congressional aide with knowledge of the findings, revealed that Lois G. Lerner, who oversees tax-exempt groups for the IRS and made the disclosure Friday, knew about the targeting of tea party and other groups in June 2011. In March 2012, IRS Commissioner Douglas H. Shulman told Congress that the agency was not targeting conservative groups that applied for tax-exempt status as “social welfare” groups."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

of course Friday their spokesman apologized and said it's now all taken care of, and that it will never happen again. I believe they also said it was some lower level folks, and that it WASN"T POLITICAL!!:lol:
Sorry, I don't think that's going to close the issue there sparky.

just the people you want overseeing your healthcare now isn't it?

[elysiantraveller]

as the regime melts down, might as well add another scandal to the mix.

Report: Top IRS officials knew in 2011 that conservative groups were targeted (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/report-top-irs-officials-knew-in-2011-that-conservative-groups-were-targeted/2013/05/11/2619face-ba7b-11e2-b94c-b684dda07add_story.html)

"Details of the inspector general’s audit, obtained by The Washington Post from a congressional aide with knowledge of the findings, revealed that Lois G. Lerner, who oversees tax-exempt groups for the IRS and made the disclosure Friday, knew about the targeting of tea party and other groups in June 2011. In March 2012, IRS Commissioner Douglas H. Shulman told Congress that the agency was not targeting conservative groups that applied for tax-exempt status as “social welfare” groups."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

of course Friday their spokesman apologized and said it's now all taken care of, and that it will never happen again. I believe they also said it was some lower level folks, and that it WASN"T POLITICAL!!:lol:
Sorry, I don't think that's going to close the issue there sparky.

just the people you want overseeing your healthcare now isn't it?

Just NJ Stinks using some of his remaining pull in the Department. :lol:

;)

[Robert Goren]

While there are many legitimate conservative groups, there are also a ton of of so called groups that stuck "tea party" in their name that are nothing more than a con man with a P O box and a web page. I know of two such operations here in Lincoln that under IRS investigation. There also 4 operations that stuck some reference to Nebraska football in their name being investigated by the IRS. One of the football "groups" is being run by the same guy as one of the "tea party " groups. Another one in Kansas is being run by one my sleazy x-con relatives. I would think that conservatives would want the government to go after the crooks using the conservative movement as means to get their money. 25 years ago these con men stuck stuck "environmental" in their phony associations, today it is "tea party". They have operated on both sides of the abortion issue at one time or another. Same is true of "gay rights" . Same kind of crooks, just a different key word in the name. It is all about which word will get the most money. Remember little, if any of the money goes the cause. I suspect the next key word will be "guns" which probably used to get money from people who want more gun control. There is no well known group opposed to the NRA, so the field is wide open to con men and you better believe plenty will be /are moving in to fill the void. If I were a con man that is where I would be headed. It is not about the politics, it about the money for these guys. Hopefully the IRS is already on top of that too.

[elysiantraveller]

...

Everything you wrote is completely irrelevant. The fact is they are specifically targeting conservative groups and not liberal groups.

Secondly, the Tea Party Patriots have over a million members and are hardly a "bush league" group.

This my friend is another scandal but keep pounding the partisan drum.

[MPRanger]

Everything you wrote is completely irrelevant. The fact is they are specifically targeting conservative groups and not liberal groups.

Secondly, the Tea Party Patriots have over a million members and are hardly a "bush league" group.

This my friend is another scandal but keep pounding the partisan drum.


And what he wrote is not true either. In fact almost all the nefarious actors who would steal elections and our democracy or attempt personal gain come right out of the left wing socialist democrat party. If there was the situation that he claimed, if even one person did it, Obama's left wing press would be trumpeting it in headlines. Heck, they lie as it is. If they really had something they would be proud as plums.

[Tom]

The point............................................. .................................Goren

[newtothegame]

Now I am sure there was something in relation to discrimination of particular groups.......somewhere.....hmmmm....

Nahh, nothing to see here.......move along people....

Nevermind that this government, (led by liberals no less) are specifically targeting conservative groups........

And isn't this the same group (the IRS) who is to oversee the Obamacare?? lmao ...sweet!!!

[Ocala Mike]

This scandal, to me, is worse than Benghazi; I don't know why the R's are invested more in the latter than they should be, although I guess it's more about Hillary in 2016 than Barry now.

When I worked as an Income Tax Auditor (like NJ STINKS, but for NY State, not IRS), we had some rather ingenious methods for "targeting" our audits, BUT NEVER POLITICALLY BASED. I remember being told by my superiors to take down Florida license plate numbers whenever we saw them in the Long Island, NY area (my base) in order to crosscheck the owners against NY-owned properties for further investigation into whether they might have been NY residents claiming FL residency ("snowbirds"), one of the most productive audit issues we had, and my specialty.

[tucker6]

This scandal, to me, is worse than Benghazi; I don't know why the R's are invested more in the latter than they should be, although I guess it's more about Hillary in 2016 than Barry now.

When I worked as an Income Tax Auditor (like NJ STINKS, but for NY State, not IRS), we had some rather ingenious methods for "targeting" our audits, BUT NEVER POLITICALLY BASED. I remember being told by my superiors to take down Florida license plate numbers whenever we saw them in the Long Island, NY area (my base) in order to crosscheck the owners against NY-owned properties for further investigation into whether they might have been NY residents claiming FL residency ("snowbirds"), one of the most productive audit issues we had, and my specialty.
which is why I don't screw around with those sorts of things. My BIL is doing that exact thing between PA and SC, and it's not worth it. And I wonder why he has a persecution complex.

[elysiantraveller]

This scandal, to me, is worse than Benghazi; I don't know why the R's are invested more in the latter than they should be, although I guess it's more about Hillary in 2016 than Barry now.

Lying to the American people 2 months before a National Election and then lying that you lied about it while at the same time using it as a club against your opponent should be a pretty big deal... but I digress...

[Robert Goren]

And what he wrote is not true either. In fact almost all the nefarious actors who would steal elections and our democracy or attempt personal gain come right out of the left wing socialist democrat party. If there was the situation that he claimed, if even one person did it, Obama's left wing press would be trumpeting it in headlines. Heck, they lie as it is. If they really had something they would be proud as plums.Go ahead and give your money to some con man trumpeting the conservative cause. It is your money and if you want to give it to some con man, it is ok by me. Just don't say you weren't warned when he spends it living it up instead on pushing the conservative agenda. I know as liberal I should love it when a conservative wastes his money, but I just hate to see anyone, even a conservative, get taken by a con man.
How many groups are there with a "tea party" in their name. There must be at least a couple hundred. And you are telling me they are all legit. Come on man, get real!
Like said in my other post, the con men are/will be moving on to to gun control. I got two letters in the mail last week asking for money from groups claiming to want tougher gun laws. I expect a lot more. None will get any money from me even though I support tougher gun laws. It is not about politics with these crooks, it is about getting your and my money any way they can. They aren't any different from hucksters who sent you the letters a couple weeks ago trying to sell the winner of the Kentucky Derby.

[elysiantraveller]

...

Still changing the subject?

Its okay for the IRS to go after conservative "con men" but not liberal "con men?"

That's essentially what you are saying....

[Robert Goren]

Still changing the subject?

Its okay for the IRS to go after conservative "con men" but not liberal "con men?"

That's essentially what you are saying....No. Are you saying they don't go after "liberal " con men? If so, I think you are wrong. For instance in 1960s, when the "anti war" movement (the last big political movement until the tea party came along) was ripe with con men, like tea party movement is now, the IRS went after them. Not one conservative said one word back then.

[Saratoga_Mike]

No. Are you saying they don't go after "liberal " con men? If so, I think you are wrong. For instance in 1960s, when the "anti war" movement (the last big political movement until the tea party came along) was ripe with con men, like tea party movement is now, the IRS went after them. Not one conservative said one word back then.

To quote Jay Carney, that was a "long time ago." Let's stick with the current century Goren.

[Robert Goren]

To the con men, it not about liberal or conservative, it about what word or words will bring in the most money. In 2010-2012, the words was "tea party". I don't know why the conservatives don't see that. I guess they must have some sort of idea that a con man would not dare to use the words "tea party" in their pitch. It is about the con men, not the political movement. They must want the con men in the Tea Party movement to given a free pass to steal conseratives's money.

[JustRalph]

Btw, don't forget. They specifically went after Glenn Beck's 9/12 group.

That gives Beck plenty of veracity when he complains about being targeted by the government.

Btw, Joe Klein says

Obama is now Nixon!!

http://swampland.time.com/2013/05/11/irs-mess/

"Previous Presidents, including great ones like Roosevelt, have used the IRS against their enemies. But I don’t think Barack Obama ever wanted to be on the same page as Richard Nixon. In this specific case, he now is."

Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2013/05/11/irs-mess/#ixzz2T7EWN0MG

[Robert Goren]

To quote Jay Carney, that was a "long time ago." Let's stick with the current century Goren. Not that long ago when it comes to thievery. The con men may die off, but new ones take there place. The exact words change too. The result is the same. Somebody has their money con out of them. That is timeless.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Not that long ago when it comes to thievery. The con men may die off, but new ones take there place. The exact words change too. The result is the same. Somebody has their money con out of them. That is timeless.

This isn't remotely related to the matter at hand.

[Robert Goren]

This isn't remotely related to the matter at hand.I know you think you have a case of political persecution, but that isn't true. What we have is a case of the IRS going after some crooks and couple of politicians trying to use it for political gain(shocking!) and guy trying to sell a book. It is really sad when common thieves get sympathy from the people they are ripping off because the victims are convinced that they are being politically persecuted.

[JustRalph]

I know you think you have a case of political persecution, but that isn't true. What we have is a case of the IRS going after some crooks and couple of politicians trying to use it for political gain(shocking!) and guy trying to sell a book. It is really sad when common thieves get sympathy from the people they are ripping off because the victims are convinced that they are being politically persecuted.


You kids get out of my yard!!!

[ArlJim78]

Robert you might want to actually read up on the issue before commenting further. Once again you're way out in left field on this one.

[elysiantraveller]

Robert you might want to actually read up on the issue before commenting further. Once again you're way out in left field on this one.

What in the hell is he talking about?...

[elysiantraveller]

No. Are you saying they don't go after "liberal " con men? If so, I think you are wrong. For instance in 1960s, when the "anti war" movement (the last big political movement until the tea party came along) was ripe with con men, like tea party movement is now, the IRS went after them. Not one conservative said one word back then.

And that was right?...

You are a joke. You know the IRS is wrong, so you just deflect and call all super-pacs "con-men."

[newtothegame]

Robert you might want to actually read up on the issue before commenting further. Once again you're way out in left field on this one.
Let us know when he is NOT in left field.......:bang:

[Robert Goren]

And that was right?...

You are a joke. You know the IRS is wrong, so you just deflect and call all super-pacs "con-men."I never said anything about super-pacs and neither did the quoted article.

[newtothegame]

Someone explain to Goren, that even the IRS came out and admitted it and apologized for specifically targeting certain groups......(amazingly, they all were on the right of the aisle)......lol

[PaceAdvantage]

You do realize Goren has written on more than one occasion that he posts at times just to bust balls and "stir the pot" and all that jazz.

He is never to be taken seriously...

[elysiantraveller]

You do realize Goren has written on more than one occasion that he posts at times just to bust balls and "stir the pot" and all that jazz.

He is never to be taken seriously...

Yup... got me this time...

I hate feeding trolls.

[Robert Goren]

You do realize Goren has written on more than one occasion that he posts at times just to bust balls and "stir the pot" and all that jazz.

He is never to be taken seriously...Only in off topics politics. When I post about horse racing, gambling or sports I am serious. Not always correct, but always serious on those subjects.

[Tom]

I never said anything about super-pacs and neither did the quoted article.

You never said anything remotely related to this thread.
Keep posting - we need a good laugh.
Your tether to reality is pretty funny.

[vegasone]

(Reuters) - When tax agents started singling out non-profit groups for extra scrutiny in 2010, they looked at first only for key words such as 'Tea Party,' but later they focused on criticisms by groups of "how the country is being run," according to investigative findings reviewed by Reuters on Sunday.


Probably just a coinkidink:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/13/us-usa-tax-irs-criteria-idUSBRE94C03N20130513

[rastajenk]

I think Goren is just keeping the seat warm until the postmaster and the IRS agent himself get their talking points from the mothership in working order. This is gonna be a tough one for them.

[lamboguy]

where is the ACLU on this matter? they are supposed to be protecting us from the inequity's in the system. this is very egregious. this is why the ACLU exists, this deal is nothing short of TIERENY

[Ocala Mike]

lamboguy, I don't have a link for you, but I'm pretty sure I heard several news reports over the weekend stating that the ACLU is as outraged as every right-thinking American should be over this issue, and has spoken out ccritically about it.

[elysiantraveller]

lamboguy, I don't have a link for you, but I'm pretty sure I heard several news reports over the weekend stating that the ACLU is as outraged as every right-thinking American should be over this issue, and has spoken out ccritically about it.

Yup.

"The left is not trying to hide from a story they know they can’t hide from. The ACLU is condemning the IRS, with the chief of staff at their Washington Legislative Office saying, “Even the appearance of playing partisan politics with the tax code is about as constitutionally troubling as it gets.” And Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein (CA) said on NBC television on Sunday that “I think we have to understand why” the IRS “would give extra scrutiny” to conservative groups. Not exactly righteous indignation, but not the stonewalling we’ve come to expect from Democrats when it comes to Obama administration failures."

http://spectator.org/archives/2013/05/13/the-taxman-cometh-for-tea-part

[Saratoga_Mike]

Yup.

"The left is not trying to hide from a story they know they can’t hide from. The ACLU is condemning the IRS, with the chief of staff at their Washington Legislative Office saying, “Even the appearance of playing partisan politics with the tax code is about as constitutionally troubling as it gets.” And Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein (CA) said on NBC television on Sunday that “I think we have to understand why” the IRS “would give extra scrutiny” to conservative groups. Not exactly righteous indignation, but not the stonewalling we’ve come to expect from Democrats when it comes to Obama administration failures."

http://spectator.org/archives/2013/05/13/the-taxman-cometh-for-tea-part

She doesn't understand the "why" - wow.

Good article on the front page of today's WSJ - note to Goren: don't read it, then you'd be informed.

[TJDave]

Another good article in the WP.


The thought by the IRS is the right one: Group like things so they all get judged by the same standard. Of course, when you start singling out individual groups based on their names or their stated missions, you veer from the right idea into the wrong one.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/05/13/why-did-the-irs-target-tea-party-petitioners-as-a-group/

[Robert Goren]

Become a liberal and you won't have to worry about this .... at least until a conservative is elected president.:lol:

[mostpost]

(Reuters) - When tax agents started singling out non-profit groups for extra scrutiny in 2010, they looked at first only for key words such as 'Tea Party,' but later they focused on criticisms by groups of "how the country is being run," according to investigative findings reviewed by Reuters on Sunday.


Probably just a coinkidink:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/13/us-usa-tax-irs-criteria-idUSBRE94C03N20130513
According to Conservatives, the Obama administration ordered the IRS to target conservative organizations and deny them tax exempt status. According to the story which you linked to above, none of this was true. From the Reuters story.
At a legal conference in Washington, while taking questions from the audience, Lerner said the agency was sorry.

She said the screening practice was confined to an IRS office in Cincinnati; that it was "absolutely not" influenced by the Obama administration; and that none of the targeted groups was denied tax-free status.

This is quite different from when Nixon targeted individuals he considered his enemies. In that case they were threatened with audits and possible prosecution. In this case the groups were given increased scrutiny, but none of them were denied tax exempt status.

[JustRalph]

Who cares......

All the IRS agents in Cincy are just actors

[JustRalph]

Hey Mostie, I guess this was just "low level" employees too

http://apne.ws/15GBzx9

These guys are the Chicago mafia east.

http://drudgereport.com/siren.gif

[mostpost]

Who cares......

All the IRS agents in Cincy are just actors
Don't misunderstand. I'm not defending the actions of those who gave unfavorable treatment to conservative groups. I object to it being characterized as a deliberate plan orchestrated by the Obama administration.

I also do not understand why a political organization like the Tea Party should be tax exempt. Or any political organization. The rules state that such organizations can not participate in political campaigns, but may comment on policy. It seems a distinction without a difference. Repeatedly saying you are opposed to Obamacare, think Benghazi is a coverup, and oppose background checks is pretty much the same as saying vote for Romney, don't vote for Obama.

[mostpost]

Hey Mostie, I guess this was just "low level" employees too

http://apne.ws/15GBzx9

These guys are the Chicago mafia east.

http://drudgereport.com/siren.gif
Stop posting over sized images that screw up the page. It is so annoying.

[elysiantraveller]

...

It's all beginning to unravel...

Will have to revive the Obama Job Approval thread here pretty soon.

[JustRalph]

Stop posting over sized images that screw up the page. It is so annoying.


Sometimes done for effect

[TJDave]

It's all beginning to unravel...


Not yet. We'll have to wait for the midterms.

[elysiantraveller]

Waiting for Goren to hop on and say they had it coming... All those con men at the AP... :rolleyes:

[NJ Stinks]

It's all beginning to unravel...

Will have to revive the Obama Job Approval thread here pretty soon.

That's funny. I thought you guys said it had begun to unravel in 2010. And 2011. And definitely in 2012.

Until I hear an explanation from an IRS employee in Cincinnati for exactly why Tea Party and other conservative groups were profiled, I am not stoning anybody.

Obviously, the IRS is going to focus it's resources on returns showing potential for abuse. Does this sound like a possible area of abuse for Tea Party type applicants?

IRC 501(c)(4) says in part:

The promotion of social welfare does not include participation in political campaigns on behalf of or in opposition to any political candidate.

link: http://www.irs.gov/irm/part7/irm_07-025-004.html


As for the IRS division chief who apologized on Friday, I'd say it's 50-50 that she throwing her employees under the bus just in case. :rolleyes:

[elysiantraveller]

That's funny. I thought you guys said it had begun to unravel in 2010. And 2011. And definitely in 2012.

I never said that... just this week:

1) The IRS is accused of targeting Conservative NPO's.

2) The Benghazi talking points, and the administrations role or lack thereof, is now a proven lie.

3) The Justice Department is now getting heat for wire tapping the press.

Plus recently:

1) Sequester... failure.

2) Gun Control... failure.

3) Immigration... GOP is leading the charge on this... failure.

The biggest thing that might have happened this week is the press who does support him, even you can't deny that, has been made a fool of once and spied on....

They begin to turn... he is in big trouble.

[Tom]

Isn't it amazing how Obama is the President of the United States, and he is pretty much oblivious to EVERYTHING thah goes on around him?

Isn't that a sign of stupidity? :lol: :lol:

And what does it say about those who support him to the bitter end? :eek:

[NJ Stinks]

And what does it say about those who support him to the bitter end? :eek:

The real bitter end is yours and it's at least 3.5 years away! :lol:

[JustRalph]

The IRS isn't accused.

They admitted it. And the director of the IRS lied to Congress about it

[JustRalph]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-denounces-reported-irs-targeting-of-conservative-groups/2013/05/13/a0185644-bbdf-11e2-97d4-a479289a31f9_print.html


Get out the rocks!!

It came from Washington!!



That's funny. I thought you guys said it had begun to unravel in 2010. And 2011. And definitely in 2012.

Until I hear an explanation from an IRS employee in Cincinnati for exactly why Tea Party and other conservative groups were profiled, I am not stoning anybody.

Obviously, the IRS is going to focus it's resources on returns showing potential for abuse. Does this sound like a possible area of abuse for Tea Party type applicants?

IRC 501(c)(4) says in part:

The promotion of social welfare does not include participation in political campaigns on behalf of or in opposition to any political candidate.

link: http://www.irs.gov/irm/part7/irm_07-025-004.html


As for the IRS division chief who apologized on Friday, I'd say it's 50-50 that she throwing her employees under the bus just in case. :rolleyes:

[iceknight]

The point............................................. ..... ............................Goren
nice one Tome, but I don't understand this after reading through the entire thread. Are you implying that Goren and the point are far apart but at the same level? Because the way I see it after this thread is :) :

The point.................................. ...... .......................
.......................
.......................
.......................
..................... ..................Goren


It is not the job of the IRS to go after crooks who try to bilk people of their money, that is the job of the Justice Dept.. but they are busy doing something else!

[iceknight]

Get out the rocks!!

It came from Washington!! The IRS: "It was not politically motivated".
Us: We did not ask you that, yet.

[rastajenk]

Apparently the mothership has delivered the message (http://www.yourish.com/2013/05/13/18040), so now we can expect the usual suspects around here to fall in line.

[Tom]

The real bitter end is yours and it's at least 3.5 years away! :lol:

Oh, I don't know......sometimes it is less than that.
He does so remind me of someone, a long time ago......

[JustRalph]

"You've grown up hearing voices that incessantly warn of government as nothing more than some separate, sinister entity that's at the root of all our problems," Obama said. "You should reject these voices "


Obama last week at Ohio State commencement


Yeah, right Barry!

[Tom]

Mark Levin weighs in on Cavuto today....he pegs the useless house repubs pretty damn correctly.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/13/mark-levin-gop-reaction-to-irs-brouhaha-impotent-video/

[tucker6]

Holder did a great Sgt Schultz impression this afternoon about just about everything. Just waiting for the press to dredge up Fast and Furious again for all to see. If BO doesn't cut Holder, he's an idiot. The GOP will have a field day next year running against the anti-civil liberty/lawless of the Dems. Asking for the voters to not give both houses to BO will lead to a massacre at the polls.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Holder did a great Sgt Schultz impression this afternoon about just about everything. Just waiting for the press to dredge up Fast and Furious again for all to see. If BO doesn't cut Holder, he's an idiot. The GOP will have a field day next year running against the anti-civil liberty/lawless of the Dems. Asking for the voters to not give both houses to BO will lead to a massacre at the polls.

What are you predicting/saying here?

Agree with you on Holder - disgraceful.

[tucker6]

What are you predicting/saying here?

Agree with you on Holder - disgraceful.
sorry, very poorly worded. I'm predicting that if BO allows the GOP to use these transgressions as talking points because he failed to stem the damage (fire Holder, etc), it will be a massacre against the Dems next year. The GOP will use these issues with voters and ask that they allow the GOP to be the watchdog of the BO admin during his final two years since he is not policing his admin himself.

[TJDave]

I'm predicting that if BO allows the GOP to use these transgressions as talking points because he failed to stem the damage (fire Holder, etc), it will be a massacre against the Dems next year.

I've yet to see anything that would give an entitlement voter cause to abandon their base.

Now, when they start feeling the effects of the PPACA...

Different story. ;)

[Saratoga_Mike]

I've yet to see anything that would give an entitlement voter cause to abandon their base.

Now, when they start feeling the effects of the PPACA...

Different story. ;)

totally agree

[tucker6]

I've yet to see anything that would give an entitlement voter cause to abandon their base.

Now, when they start feeling the effects of the PPACA...

Different story. ;)
In an off year election, fewer entitlement voters vote IMHO. It's really about energizing the base in a Congressional year, and issues like these tend to both energize the GOP and demoralize the Dems. Every Dem I know but a few of the more insane are just as disgusted by these allegations as we are.

[JustRalph]

I've yet to see anything that would give an entitlement voter cause to abandon their base.

Now, when they start feeling the effects of the PPACA...

Different story. ;)

Right on.........

But crippling Obama with scandals will be very satisfying and fruitful.

[TJDave]

Right on.........

But crippling Obama with scandals will be very satisfying and fruitful.

I don't think this IRS thing will prove fruitful as I don't believe anyone in the administration would be stupid enough to contact the agency. Maybe the WH wants congress to focus on this and away from Benghazi? ;)

[fast4522]

To borrow from Thomas Paine, "These are the times that try men's souls.".

If it were just Eric Holder it would be one thing, but the much larger problem is that the President has surrounded himself with people who are no better than himself. Some may call Eric Holder an idiot, but the truth is that a true leader surrounds himself with several who are a genuine phoenix's in their own right. Currently not a one in the lot, in my mind Eric Holder does not hold that title because the buck stops at the top.

[JustRalph]

The worm is turning

el-hP0Zj43M

[Ocala Mike]

But crippling Obama with scandals will be very satisfying and fruitful.



What about governing the country? Does his oppostion have any stomach at all for that or will there just be a vacuum? Your statement proves every single liberal talking point that's out there, namely, that the entire raison d'etre for those not in power is to crush those that are in power. "Screw the country, full speed ahead."

[iceknight]

To borrow from Thomas Paine, "These are the times that try men's souls.".
That works for men who have souls.. Politicians on the other hand....

[rastajenk]

... that the entire raison d'etre for those not in power is to crush those that are in power. "Screw the country, full speed ahead."
Wasn't that the Dems' playbook in the Bush years? Not saying it's right or wrong, just that's the way it is, and it didn't stop Dems from winning impending elections.

[Tom]

What about governing the country? Does his oppostion have any stomach at all for that or will there just be a vacuum? Your statement proves every single liberal talking point that's out there, namely, that the entire raison d'etre for those not in power is to crush those that are in power. "Screw the country, full speed ahead."

Bottom line, if BOTH parties stop trying to govern the country, we will ALL be better off.

Neither is capable of doing it, just get the hell out of our way. The dems are digging us into a hole we may never get out of, we have no viable foreign policy, we deny terrorism.......yes, SAVE the country, full speed ahead - stop Obama in EVERYTHING he wants so to do. All he has done so far is fail.....

[Tom]

Wasn't that the Dems' playbook in the Bush years? Not saying it's right or wrong, just that's the way it is, and it didn't stop Dems from winning impending elections.

Right on!
The surge would never work, our troops were criminals, Murtha-burn in hell you mutha - disgraced himself labeling our troops as murderers, Dingy Harry Reid publicly doubted our troops in a time of war, Abu Grad was used to disparage our troops - no matter what, democrats turn my stomach. They are not fit to lead, not fit to even live here. We would better off if all democrats were rounded up and exiled.

[Tom]

Isn't it amazing how Obama is the President of the United States, and he is pretty much oblivious to EVERYTHING that goes on around him?

Isn't that a sign of stupidity? :lol: :lol:

And what does it say about those who support him to the bitter end? :eek:

Fast and Furious, Benghazi, Fort Hood, the IRS, now the AP phone records.....this buffoon is so oblivious to everything, why do we pay him? :lol:

Only three people worse than he is....mostie, Robert, and Carney! :lol:

[tucker6]

Fast and Furious, Benghazi, Fort Hood, the IRS, now the AP phone records.....this buffoon is so oblivious to everything, why do we pay him? :lol:

Only three people worse than he is....mostie, Robert, and Carney! :lol:
Not so fast my friend. This is from an avowed Marxist on another board I frequent. I can't post the link because it requires special access. Here's his rant on the whole AP story:

"I actually think wire tapping and big brother in general is a great thing, I don't know why people get so freedom obsessed. Some freedoms are overrated and even get in the way of progress. Human beings need babysat, I'm 100% on this. We can't even clean up after ourselves and we wastefully pollute everywhere to save a few pennies for goodness sakes. Now I believe as long as big brother isn't physically or mentally abusing people in a harmful way, they can do whatever they want. The average human being cannot be trusted with all their freedoms, so I'm ok with government checking up on us once in a while."

"I agree that socialism without ANY freedom is brutality, I'm not advocating a pure totalitarian regime, or pure anything. I like a bunch of ideas from all political theories. Big brother just so happens to line up with some of my ideas. People need to be forced to do some things, as to much freedom can also be dangerous, especially when combined with the profit motive. When money is the main reason for motives and ideas, it becomes just as bad as any other pure political idea."

"If the government was listening to my conversations right now, I wouldn't care any more or less. It doesn't bother me at all, really no police state ideas bother me. The only time it may bother is if there is an inconvenience to me (ie road stops, TSA, check points, etc). IF they could somehow still manage to do airport checks faster, I would LOVE it, even if the freedom activist hate it. Panopitcon type surveilence is a good thing, especially when it comes to tracking down crime. People just get paranoid because either, they are guilty of something and don't want to be caught, or they believe the government is out to harm them."


This kid is around 21 years old. As you can imagine, he is a big Occupy fan, although he believes they weren't fervent enough.

[elysiantraveller]

Not so fast my friend. This is from an avowed Marxist on another board I frequent. I can't post the link because it requires special access. Here's his rant on the whole AP story

Wow...

And he consider's himself a Marxist?... :lol:

Marx would agree with basically 0% of what he just wrote. He is a totalitarian.

[detective]

One thing to remember is that the IRS is not a Goverment Organization. They are Independent. So what ever they do can not be blamed on the Federal Government. That is why they are separate. They have done wrong on this issue and should be acountable but that is withen their organization not the Federal Governments.

[elysiantraveller]

:eek:

Good write-up at Politico.

DC Turns On Obama (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/dc-turns-on-obama-91386.html?hp=t1_3)

[mostpost]

Fast and Furious, Benghazi, Fort Hood, the IRS, now the AP phone records.....this buffoon is so oblivious to everything, why do we pay him? :lol:

Only three people worse than he is....mostie, Robert, and Carney! :lol:
Fast and Furious: Started by Bush under a different name and irrelevant to anything.
Benghazi: Everything the Republicans claimed has been proven false.
Fort Hood: How is that a scandal; especially how is it an Obama scandal?
There may be some criticism of military brass for not identifying the threat, but do you really think that the President should be aware of the mental status of every soldier, sailor, marine or airman?
The IRS: Also proving to be much ado about very little. The IG report came out today. There was targeting based on organizational names, but it was the result of lack of supervision as opposed to an attempt to target conservative groups.

The IG surveyed 298 applications which were flagged for further review based on the name of the organization. 72 had Tea Party in their name. 13 had Patriots and 11 had 9/12-Glenn Beck's group. The other 202 had names which could identify them as potential political groups but not conservative groups.

Basically, the office in charge of approving or denying these applications tried to short circuit the process by using the groups name to categorize them. IRS management was asleep at the switch and it took much longer to make corrections than it should have.

The AP: One you may have gotten right. Even a blind acorn finds a squirrel once in a while.

If you combine all those so called scandals, they do not come close to the infamy of Watergate or Iran-Contra, and only AP is potentially worse than Scootergate.

Thank you for the compliment of including me in a group with Robert Goren and Jay Carney. If you were looking to insult me you should have compared me to you.

[JustRalph]

Check out this bullshit

http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/14/irs-official-lerner-approved-exemption-for-obama-brothers-charity/

[JustRalph]

What about governing the country? Does his oppostion have any stomach at all for that or will there just be a vacuum? Your statement proves every single liberal talking point that's out there, namely, that the entire raison d'etre for those not in power is to crush those that are in power. "Screw the country, full speed ahead."

When he is dealing with scandals, his agenda stalls. Old school politics.

Just the way of things now. Stopping the agenda is satisfying, a win etc.

The fruitful part hopefully comes in the mid terms, but Dave makes a good point about it.

In my opine, Obama's agenda screws the country much worse than gridlock.

[JustRalph]

Graphic Language

ZuRTUdo5V84

[riskman]

NPR’s Ari Shapiro asked Carney to square Obama’s belief in an "unfettered" press with the fact that he has prosecuted twice as many leakers as all previous administrations combined.

Carney said Obama’s love of press freedom “is backed up by his support for a media shield law.” This would be the shield law that died in Congress in 2010 because of Obama’s objections.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/01/us/01shield.html?_r=0

Even Harry Reid denounced the wire tapping. Said it is outrageous violation of the constitution. Just another day in the life of the DOJ. Who will be manufacturing the talking points on this incident? Might give Susan Rice a call at the UN, she might have a few hours of free time this Sunday.

[Tom]

Fast and Furious: Started by Bush under a different name and irrelevant to anything.

As usual, wrong again.
The point being made was that Obama is oblivious to what is going on around him. Apparently, it is not just him! :D

[ArlJim78]

some comments regarding other selective IRS treatment of groups depending on whether they are connected to Obama or the Muslim Brotherhood, in which case their applications sail through, or if they or connected to Israel in which case they are delayed or denied.
this is why I don't like our tax code, it's ripe for abuse especially when it's run by Chicago thugs.
http://shoebat.com/2013/05/15/contrast-irs-treatment-of-jewish-organization-vs-its-treatment-of-organization-founded-by-barack-obamas-muslim-brother/

[Tom]

Obama release his enemies list of 8 major contributors a while back - now he says heads will roll???? This is EXACTLY what he had in mind when he did that.

[ArlJim78]

How many IRS scandals are we up to now this week 2,3? well add another.

IRS faces class action lawsuit over theft of 60 million medical records (http://www.healthcareitnews.com/news/irs-face-lawsuit-over-theft-60-million-patient-health-records)


The Internal Revenue Service is now facing a class action lawsuit over
allegations that it improperly accessed and stole the health records of some 10 million Americans, including medical records of all California state judges.

According to a report (http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/03/14/55707.htm) by Courthousenews.com, an unnamed
HIPAA-covered entity in California is suing the IRS, alleging that some 60
million medical records from 10 million patients were stolen by 15 IRS agents. The personal health information seized on March 11, 2011, included psychological counseling, gynecological counseling, sexual/drug treatment and other medical treatment data."

[mostpost]

some comments regarding other selective IRS treatment of groups depending on whether they are connected to Obama or the Muslim Brotherhood, in which case their applications sail through, or if they or connected to Israel in which case they are delayed or denied.
this is why I don't like our tax code, it's ripe for abuse especially when it's run by Chicago thugs.
http://shoebat.com/2013/05/15/contrast-irs-treatment-of-jewish-organization-vs-its-treatment-of-organization-founded-by-barack-obamas-muslim-brother/

I'm sure your buzz words will have great effect on the know nothing right, but not on me or anyone who thinks through the issues. Two types of organizations qualify for tax exempt status; charitable organizations and social welfare organizations. Neither of them is to support candidates or political parties.

The Barack H Obama foundation is a true charitable organization supporting projects in Kenya and around the world. It supports projects to provide clean water and sanitation. It supports projects to prevent the spread of aids and other infectious diseases. It supports vaccinations. It supports scholarships for deserving students. leadership training and micro enterprise.

Nowhere in it's literature does the Barack H Obama foundation mention Islam or the Muslim Brotherhood. BTW the Barack H Obama is not named after the current president of the United States and has no connection to him. It is named after Barack H Obama Sr.

Z Street on the other hand claims to be an organization to educate people about Israel and the state of Israel, but all I see on their website is how terrible Arabs are and how awful it would be to compromise with them in any way.

[HUSKER55]

IS BO OR HILLARY RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING?

[ArlJim78]

I'm sure your buzz words will have great effect on the know nothing right, but not on me or anyone who thinks through the issues. Two types of organizations qualify for tax exempt status; charitable organizations and social welfare organizations. Neither of them is to support candidates or political parties.

The Barack H Obama foundation is a true charitable organization supporting projects in Kenya and around the world. It supports projects to provide clean water and sanitation. It supports projects to prevent the spread of aids and other infectious diseases. It supports vaccinations. It supports scholarships for deserving students. leadership training and micro enterprise.

Nowhere in it's literature does the Barack H Obama foundation mention Islam or the Muslim Brotherhood. BTW the Barack H Obama is not named after the current president of the United States and has no connection to him. It is named after Barack H Obama Sr.

Z Street on the other hand claims to be an organization to educate people about Israel and the state of Israel, but all I see on their website is how terrible Arabs are and how awful it would be to compromise with them in any way.
so you can't explain why the charities with the Obama name got preferential treatment. neither could I.

[FantasticDan]

IS BO OR HILLARY RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING?Crushing republicans? :p

[JustRalph]

I think we can find a felony in this one.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/05/14/Obama-campaign-co-chair-attacked-Romney-conservative-group-in-2012-with-leaked-IRS-scandal-documents

The deeper you go, the more Nixonian this gets.........

[Tom]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/14/julian-bond-tea-party_n_3274583.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

"I think it's entirely legitimate to look at the tea party," Bond said during an
interview with MSNBC's Thomas Roberts.
He goes on to call the Tea Partiers admitted racists! :lol: Julian, baby, you got that backwards dude....YOU are the racist - there is no debate on that one.

Trivia - Bond is his slave name - what is is his real name?


Goebbels.

[tucker6]

Well, the acting director of the IRS was just asked to fall on his sword, but that won't stop the investigations and hearings.

[Tom]

He did exactly what Obama wanted him to do.
Now he is under the bus.

Obama has no integrity at all.
Or balls.
A sniveling little girly man.

[ArlJim78]

the guy who was fired only started in December and had already announced that he was resigning next month. just a fallguy who had nothing to do with this. poor guy picked a bad year to accept an interim post at the IRS.

[JustRalph]

Little white lies

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/348399/committee-chairman-yes-i-was-lied-irs

[ArlJim78]

I think I posted about his guy before, but the story is even more relevant now. evidence that the Obama campaign worked hand in glove with the IRS targeting wealthy Romney donors.

Long story short, after the campaign publicly calls this guy "dirty" the IRS subjects him three audits, which cost $80,000, and they find nothing on him. and he wasn't the only one.

Frank VanderSloot: ‘I’m not the only’ major Mitt Romney donor audited (http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/14/frank-vandersloot-im-not-the-only-major-mitt-romney-donor-audited/)

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/14/frank-vandersloot-im-not-the-only-major-mitt-romney-donor-audited/#ixzz2TPVUCop6

using the levers of government against private citizens for political gain should earn jail sentences for this corrupt regime. just like in Chicago, they serve two terms in office and one term in jail.

[Tom]

I heard him on on TV.....petty sad when that can happen in America - your government goes after you. Obama is nothing more that a POS thug. The IRS is the Getapo. Now they are positioned to have access all of our personal information.

Germany, 1933......welcome.

[JustRalph]

Channel 19 in Cincy is reporting they have exclusive interview with 4 IRS employees that say they were directed by higher ups to go after Tea Party.

The plot thickens

[Tom]

All we need now is for Martha Mitchell to start drinking and making late night phone calls! :lol:

Watergate.....not just for republicans anymore.

Casey, play this one for Obama.....

c8YzsS2T97Q

[Tom]

4puS-yjwsiE

[JustRalph]

http://j.mp/12vfL30

Amazing.......going after Pro Life groups?

This will extend the news cycle.

"In one case, the IRS withheld approval of an application for tax exempt status for Coalition for Life of Iowa. In a phone call to Coalition for Life of Iowa leaders on June 6, 2009, the IRS agent “Ms. Richards” told the group to send a letter to the IRS with the entire board’s signatures stating that, under perjury of the law, they do not picket/protest or organize groups to picket or protest outside of Planned Parenthood. Once the IRS received this letter, their application would be approved. After a series of letters following a request for more invasive information, Thomas More Society special counsel Sally Wagenmaker sent a letter to the IRS demanding the tax exempt status be issued immediately.

Wagenmaker summarized her concerns about what she called “the IRS’s disturbing ability” to stall and suppress legitimate applicants. She explained how through lengthy questionnaires and wrong citations of applicable law (as in the case of Coalition for Life of Iowa), applicants with less fortitude or without access to legal advocates like the Thomas More Society will be effectively silenced from exercising their constitutional freedoms. Wagenmaker added, “The IRS’s role should only be to determine whether organizations fit the section 501(c)(3) test for ‘charitable, religious, or educational’ qualification, not to inquire about the content of prayers, protests, and petitions. It’s high time that the IRS be called to account for its workers’ potential to trample on our constitutional rights, through such ostensibly innocuous means…what the Ways and Means committee will discuss may only be the tip of the iceberg of IRS abuses.”

In another similar case, the IRS withheld approval of an application for charitable tax-exempt recognition of Christian Voices for Life, questioning the group’s involvement with “40 Days for Life” and “Life Chain” events. The Fort Bend County, Texas, organization was subjected to repeated and lengthy unconstitutional requests for information about the viewpoint and content of its educational communications, volunteer prayer vigils, and other protected activities.

“The application of Christian Voices for Life clearly indicated that the organization qualified as a charitable organization under section 501(c)(3),” stated Sally Wagenmaker. She added, “The IRS seemed to be intent on denying or delaying tax-exempt status based upon the organization’s pro-life message, rather than any legitimate exemption concern, through its exhaustive, cumbersome questioning. The implication that Christian Voices for Life somehow intended to engage in illegal activity was insulting.”

[JustRalph]

http://drudge.tw/10QOj1k

Cincy exclusive

[JustRalph]

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130515/NEWS/305150177/Deters-Let-s-look-rogue-IRS-workers

Cincinnati Prosecutor might prosecute.............

[JustRalph]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-may-14-2013/me-talk-reluctantly-one-day


Jon Stewart still not happy with Barry O

[fast4522]

Where is this all going? Often my question after many things hit the news that ANY objective person would have issues with. Nowhere fast is the obvious answer, but the much larger problem is the byproduct when the next major heinous event occurs. Events that hit the news like the Boston marathon and in the aftermath we see armored personnel vehicles with machine guns pointed at every house one after another displacing owners and residents out and into the streets all for one schmuck that was barely alive in the back of a boat. Sure there will be more unmanageable heinous events over the next 3 1/2 years scattered all over the world, not just in the USA. How we handle these events is the question. The whole class warfare struggle we are in here today, does it help or hurt? Who ever needs to fall onto the knife will and the President and the west wing are safe from any agency in the government tripping him up. I see nothing good coming from this but an even larger deficit maybe even larger than 25 Trillion.

[NJ Stinks]

Ralph, you are so thorough in your research yet you miss an article like the one below. FOX News will be calling you soon!
_____________________________________

IRS Sent Same Letter to Democrats That Fed Tea Party Row


By Julie Bykowicz & Jonathan D. Salant - May 14, 2013 9:42 PM ET

The Internal Revenue Service (http://topics.bloomberg.com/internal-revenue-service/), under pressure after admitting it targeted anti-tax Tea Party groups for scrutiny in recent years, also had its eye on at least three Democratic-leaning organizations seeking nonprofit status.

One of those groups, Emerge America, saw its tax-exempt status denied, forcing it to disclose its donors and pay some taxes. None of the Republican groups have said their applications were rejected.

Progress Texas (http://topics.bloomberg.com/texas/), another of the organizations, faced the same lines of questioning as the Tea Party groups from the same IRS office that issued letters to the Republican-friendly applicants. A third group, Clean Elections Texas, which supports public funding of campaigns, also received IRS inquiries.

In a statement late yesterday, the tax agency said it had pooled together the politically active nonpartisan applicants -- including a “minority” that were identified because of their names. “It is also important to understand that the group of centralized cases included organizations of all political views,” the IRS said in its statement.

Full artice at the link below:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-15/irs-sent-same-letter-to-democrats-that-fed-tea-party-row.html

[Saratoga_Mike]

Ralph, you are so thorough in your research yet you miss an article like the one below. FOX News will be calling you soon!
_____________________________________

IRS Sent Same Letter to Democrats That Fed Tea Party Row

]

So Stinks - what was the ratio of conservative-targeted vs. liberal-targeted groups? This article is nothing but spin, attempting to show there wasn't a bias against conservatives within the IRS.

Could you please provide an honest answer about something? What percentage of your former IRS colleagues were conservatives?

[NJ Stinks]

Could you please provide an honest answer about something? What percentage of your former IRS colleagues were conservatives?

Too many. For years there were about 60% in the union and almost all of them not in the union were conservatives who kept the benefits the unions negotiated without paying any dues. You know - the 'I want something for nothing' philosphy that righties live by.

But I'm sure a bigger percentage of employees have joined in the last 5 years because Republicans have targeted government workers with everything but the kitchen sink.

How's that for honesty? :rolleyes:

[mostpost]

Ralph, you are so thorough in your research yet you miss an article like the one below. FOX News will be calling you soon!
_____________________________________

IRS Sent Same Letter to Democrats That Fed Tea Party Row


By Julie Bykowicz & Jonathan D. Salant - May 14, 2013 9:42 PM ET

The Internal Revenue Service (http://topics.bloomberg.com/internal-revenue-service/), under pressure after admitting it targeted anti-tax Tea Party groups for scrutiny in recent years, also had its eye on at least three Democratic-leaning organizations seeking nonprofit status.

One of those groups, Emerge America, saw its tax-exempt status denied, forcing it to disclose its donors and pay some taxes. None of the Republican groups have said their applications were rejected.

Progress Texas (http://topics.bloomberg.com/texas/), another of the organizations, faced the same lines of questioning as the Tea Party groups from the same IRS office that issued letters to the Republican-friendly applicants. A third group, Clean Elections Texas, which supports public funding of campaigns, also received IRS inquiries.

In a statement late yesterday, the tax agency said it had pooled together the politically active nonpartisan applicants -- including a “minority” that were identified because of their names. “It is also important to understand that the group of centralized cases included organizations of all political views,” the IRS said in its statement.

Full artice at the link below:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-15/irs-sent-same-letter-to-democrats-that-fed-tea-party-row.html

NJ, your mistake is in thinking Ralph does research. What he does is subscribe to a lot of right wing "news" organizations such as Fox News, Breitbart, Hot Air and World net Daily. Then he posts what they tell him without making an effort to check its accuracy.

It is a constant charge by the right here that I get my talking points from some mysterious mothership whose sole raison d' etre is to keep me informed. This is how I create my posts. I do not subscribe to right leaning blogs because I can find out what they are saying just by reading this forum.

When I read something here that I believe is wrong I google it. After slogging through a hundred iterations of the same thing on various right wing sites, I come to an unbiased source.

Then I try to find original sources such as the actual TIGTA report which states that 68% of the organizations which were targeted for enhanced scrutiny by the IRS were NOT associated with the names Tea Party, nor Patriot, nor 9/12. The three organizations you referenced above are only a small part of liberal groups scrutinized.

[Jeff P]

Something tells me the main stream media has stopped looking the other way...

From the Wall Street Journal...

This Is No Ordinary Scandal
Political abuse of the IRS threatens the basic integrity of our government:
http://stream.wsj.com/story/campaign-2012-continuous-coverage/SS-2-9156/SS-2-234140/

We are in the midst of the worst Washington scandal since Watergate. The reputation of the Obama White House has, among conservatives, gone from sketchy to sinister, and, among liberals, from unsatisfying to dangerous. No one likes what they’re seeing. The Justice Department assault on the Associated Press and the ugly politicization of the Internal Revenue Service have left the administration’s credibility deeply, probably irretrievably damaged. They don’t look jerky now, they look dirty. The patina of high-mindedness the president enjoyed is gone.

Something big has shifted. The standing of the administration has changed.



-jp


.

[Valuist]

Something tells me the main stream media has stopped looking the other way...

From the Wall Street Journal...

This Is No Ordinary Scandal
Political abuse of the IRS threatens the basic integrity of our government:
http://stream.wsj.com/story/campaign-2012-continuous-coverage/SS-2-9156/SS-2-234140/





-jp


.

"Worst scandal since Watergate." Are we talking about Benghazi? The IRS? Or both?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Too many. For years there were about 60% in the union and almost all of them not in the union were conservatives who kept the benefits the unions negotiated without paying any dues. You know - the 'I want something for nothing' philosphy that righties live by.

But I'm sure a bigger percentage of employees have joined in the last 5 years because Republicans have targeted government workers with everything but the kitchen sink.

How's that for honesty? :rolleyes:

To be clear, you're saying 60% of your IRS colleagues were conservatives?

[Saratoga_Mike]

NJ, your mistake is in thinking Ralph does research. What he does is subscribe to a lot of right wing "news" organizations such as Fox News, Breitbart, Hot Air and World net Daily. Then he posts what they tell him without making an effort to check its accuracy.

.

Too rich from the gentleman who consumes most of his news from TV and a few left-wing websites. Has Ralph not posted links to NY Times and WSJ articles in the past, both well regarded papers?

[JustRalph]

NJ, your mistake is in thinking Ralph does research. What he does is subscribe to a lot of right wing "news" organizations such as Fox News, Breitbart, Hot Air and World net Daily. Then he posts what they tell him without making an effort to check its accuracy.

You're hysterical. Btw, do the letters F/O mean anything to you?

I don't have to defend myself to you. Many people here know who I am and I'm sure most know who and what you are. End of story.

[Tom]

Fresh oranges?

[FantasticDan]

Fresh oranges?
Feisty Orangutan?

i98QrSSHxo4

[NJ Stinks]

To be clear, you're saying 60% of your IRS colleagues were conservatives?

I guess I was not clear. (It was poorly worded.)

I'm guessing around 40% were conservative when I worked there.

[rastajenk]

NJ, your mistake is in thinking Ralph does research. What he does is subscribe to a lot of right wing "news" organizations such as Fox News, Breitbart, Hot Air and World net Daily. Then he posts what they tell him without making an effort to check its accuracy.


:D :D You mean like this? (http://mediamattersaction.org/message/onepagers/201305140001)

Although this link refers to the AP investigation, not the IRS, quoth this: "For those interested in pushing back against partisan attacks while the rest of us grapple with the larger questions, here is language to guide you." Interestingly, I couldn't find talking points about the IRS. I guess that business about harsher enforcement of tax-exempt laws for everyone didn't fly; still digging those breastworks, I suppose.

[ArlJim78]

our decent into totalitarianism now nearly complete, the nightmare that is Obamacare is set to unfold with this as a backdrop...


As the IRS is engulfed in scandal following its
admission that it targeted tea party and other conservative organizations, the
agency is preparing to assume vast new powers over Americans. The agency is
tasked with verifying that individuals and businesses are complying with
ObamaCare. In preparation, the agency is creating the largest, most centralized
national database on all Americans. Worse, the woman who oversaw the agency's targeting of conservative organizations will be in charge of this database.

continued at link.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/05/16/IRS-building-massive-national-database-of-americans

the firing of the acting director was a dog and pony show. the woman who handled the department targeting conservatives, tea party, and pro-life, had already moved on, and in a sense promoted to handle the new Obamacare division at the IRS. unreal.

[ArlJim78]

I'm sure this is just a huge weird coincidence, but the head of the IRS union ( a union already favored and given additional power by several Obama executive orders) met Obama at the White House the day before the Tea Party witchhunt began at the IRS.


In short: the very day after the president of the quite
publicly anti-Tea Party labor union — the union for IRS employees — met with
President Obama, the manager of the IRS “Determinations Unit Program agreed” to open a “Sensitive Case report on the Tea party cases.” As stated by the IG report.

http://spectator.org/archives/2013/05/20/obama-and-the-irs-the-smoking/

[Tom]

Night of the Long Knives, Obama style.

[TJDave]

The NTEU is the 150,000 member union that represents IRS employees along with 30 other separate government agencies. Kelley herself is a 14-year IRS veteran agent. The union’s PAC endorsed President Obama in both 2008 and 2012, and gave hundreds of thousands of dollars in the 2010 and 2012 election cycles to anti-Tea Party candidates.


I ran it through the StarTrek universal translator and it came up democrats. :rolleyes:

[NJ Stinks]

I'm sure this is just a huge weird coincidence, but the head of the IRS union ( a union already favored and given additional power by several Obama executive orders) met Obama at the White House the day before the Tea Party witchhunt began at the IRS.


http://spectator.org/archives/2013/05/20/obama-and-the-irs-the-smoking/

There's a lot of wishes and dreams in that article but no substance.

First off, let's get this accusation out of the way:

Not to be lost sight of here is the role of the NTEU in raising money for Democrats in the 2010 and 2012 election cycles — the exact period when the IRS was busy going after the Tea Party and the others to curb any possible influence the groups could have in the elections of 2010 and 2012.
________________________

Union dues are not allowed to go to political candidates. So the union asks for voluntary contributions that will go to candidates who are considered least hostile to government employees by the union. Guess what? Tea Party candidates didn't get a cent. Maybe the American Spectator can investigate why that is. :rolleyes:

And while we are checking how powerful the IRS union is supposed to be, why is it that government employees have not got a cost of living raise since 2010? Could it be because Obama and the union president are so tight? :rolleyes: And maybe somebody can explain how a union that cannot strike has, according to this article, become " A union that has the literal run of the IRS....".

IMO this article is a joke. If a U.S. President wanted to affect what IRS agents were looking at, those directions would come from the IRS Commissioner on down. The IRS employee union has zero say in who is audited and what tax laws will be enforced or not enforced. (Note: IRS management cannot join the union.)

IN SHORT, IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THE UNION CHIEF MET WITH OBAMA AND THEN THE UNION CHIEF MET WITH IRS EMPLOYEES THAT WERE UNION MEMBERS AND TOLD THOSE UNION MEMBERS WHAT TO DO ABOUT THESE TAX-EXEMPT APPLICATIONS, YOU ARE NUTS.

The bottom line on this supposed scandal is that the IRS was handed the job of determining if Tea Party types and other obvious progressive types qualified for tax-exempt status under IRC 501(c)(4).

IRC 501(c)(4) says in part:

The promotion of social welfare does not include participation in political campaigns on behalf of or in opposition to any political candidate.


Any unbiased nitwit can understand why the IRS would challenge the "social welfare" basis of these tax-exempt wannabies.

One final note for readers here to reject because it does not follow your script. The Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration (TIGTA) report showed no indication of improper political motives or intentional wrong doing on the part of employees. The report also noted that IRS officials stated that the criteria were not influenced by any individual or organization outside the IRS. Here's an excerpt from the TIGTA report on page 14 of the report:
________________________________

The team of specialists processed applications by organizations with names other than Tea Party, Patriots, and 9/12




(I could not cut and paste the CHART that appeared here in the report.)









To determine if organizations other than those specifically identified in the inappropriate criteria were processed by the team of specialists, we reviewed the names on all applications identified as potential political cases.18 Figure 4 shows that approximately one-third of the applications identified for processing by the team of specialists included Tea Party, Patriots, or 9/12 in their names, while the remainder did not. According to the Director, Rulings and Agreements, the fact that the team of specialists worked applications that did not involve the Tea Party, Patriots, or 9/12 groups demonstrated that the IRS was not politically biased in its identification of applications for processing by the team of specialists. Figure 4: Breakdown of Potential Political Cases by Organization Name 7 1 1 2 2 T P r t y 9 1 2 P t r i o t s O h e r


Source: EO function Potential Political Case Tracking Sheet as of May 31, 2012.


While the team of specialists reviewed applications from a variety of organizations, we determined during our reviews of statistical samples of I.R.C. § 501(c)(4) tax-exempt applications that all cases with Tea Party, Patriots, or 9/12 in their names were forwarded to the team of specialists.19 18
____________________________________



Here's the link to the TIGTA Report in it's entirety:

http://electionlawblog.org/wp-content/uploads/201310053fr-revised-redacted-1.pdf

[johnhannibalsmith]

IRS still sucks.

[TJDave]

IRS still sucks.

:lol:

Was waiting for someone to reduce this down to the molecular level.

[ArlJim78]

I'm sure your buzz words will have great effect on the know nothing right, but not on me or anyone who thinks through the issues. Two types of organizations qualify for tax exempt status; charitable organizations and social welfare organizations. Neither of them is to support candidates or political parties.

The Barack H Obama foundation is a true charitable organization supporting projects in Kenya and around the world. It supports projects to provide clean water and sanitation. It supports projects to prevent the spread of aids and other infectious diseases. It supports vaccinations. It supports scholarships for deserving students. leadership training and micro enterprise.

Nowhere in it's literature does the Barack H Obama foundation mention Islam or the Muslim Brotherhood. BTW the Barack H Obama is not named after the current president of the United States and has no connection to him. It is named after Barack H Obama Sr.

Z Street on the other hand claims to be an organization to educate people about Israel and the state of Israel, but all I see on their website is how terrible Arabs are and how awful it would be to compromise with them in any way. your "research" on this alleged charity was shot down in flames. it's nothing but a scam, a UPS box, another phony address, and nothing concrete to show for it's alleged charitable work. typical.

The “charity” run by President Barack Obama’s half-brother that was fast-tracked for IRS tax-exempt status is based at a Virginia UPS store, according to its website.

The organization’s IRS filings list another Virginia address that is actually a drug rehab center where the foundation does not appear ever to have been based.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/20/tax-exempt-obama-foundation-doesnt-exist-at-listed-addresses/#ixzz2TsUTFJBB

[Tom]

More is going to come out about Churches and religious groups being targeted.
Remember the Gibson Guitar problems a while ago......guess what?

[JustRalph]

Rumors of video and audio coming down the pike from a meeting of the IRS union officials. Meeting took place a couple of days before the original harassment of the tea party started. Top union officials rumored to be discussing conspiracy to go after Tea Party.

If true should be fun........

[TJDave]

More is going to come out about Churches and religious groups being targeted.

NO religious tax exemptions. I'm tired of paying for their privilege.

[NJ Stinks]

Rumors of video and audio coming down the pike from a meeting of the IRS union officials. Meeting took place a couple of days before the original harassment of the tea party started. Top union officials rumored to be discussing conspiracy to go after Tea Party.

If true should be fun........

Let me ask you a question, Ralph. Did you ever say anything as a cop about crook, lawyer, your boss, a snitch, etc. that you wouldn't want the general public to hear? :rolleyes:

[JustRalph]

Let me ask you a question, Ralph. Did you ever say anything as a cop about crook, lawyer, your boss, a snitch, etc. that you wouldn't want the general public to hear? :rolleyes:

Never :lol: ;)

But I never went after anybody based on their politics..........or participated in any enforcement action based on someone's politics. The IRS cannot say that.

[NJ Stinks]

Never :lol: ;)

But I never went after anybody based on their politics..........or participated in any enforcement action based on someone's politics. The IRS cannot say that.

I have no doubt that union employees of the IRS would trash the Tea Party. What I don't believe is that IRS union employees would get together and plot to screw somebody based on that person's political views. Of course, certain individuals might but not as a group.

[JustRalph]

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/348983/oversight-washington-all-along-eliana-johnson

"From the outset, Internal Revenue Service lawyers based in Washington, D.C., provided important guidance on the handling of tea-party groups’ applications for tax-exempt status, according to both IRS sources and the inspector general’s report released in mid May.

Officials in the Technical Unit of the IRS’s Rulings and Agreements office played an integral role in determining how the targeted applications were treated, provided general guidelines to Cincinnati case workers, briefed other agency employees on the status of the special cases, and reviewed all those intrusive requests demanding “more information” from tea-party groups. At times, the Technical Unit lawyers seemed to exercise tight control over these applications, creating both a backlog in application processing and frustration among Cincinnati agents waiting for direction.

An IRS employee who asked not to be identified tells National Review Online that all members of the agency’s Technical Unit are based in Washington, D.C. A current list of Technical Unit managers provided by another IRS employee shows that all such managers are based at the agency’s headquarters on Constitution Avenue in the District of Columbia, and the IRS confirmed, in a testy exchange with National Review Online, that the Technical Unit is “based in Washington.”

[fast4522]

So the administration is now safe.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2328696/Lois-Lerner-Top-IRS-official-invoke-Fifth-Amendment-congressional-hearing-tea-party-targeting-program.html

[JustRalph]

Congress should take her pension.

[newtothegame]

She can take the fifth all she likes, I would bring charges against her and lets see if she holds to the "fifth" then......

[fast4522]

What a difference a day makes?

[Tom]

She violates other's first amendment rights, then pleads her fifth!
Da bitch alergic to the truth? If she did nothing wrong, what is she hiding?
Water board her and get to the bottom line.

[FantasticDan]

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/22/remaining-silent-on-the-i-r-s/

It’s much easier to go on the attack against individuals than determine the structural reasons behind a failure, and make the proper changes. In this case, it’s been clear since the beginning that the underlying problem is the poorly written I.R.S. rules that govern political activity by a tax-exempt social-welfare group.

But every time a Democrat brings up that issue, a Republican changes the subject to the personal and the potentially criminal. :rolleyes: :bang:

[Saratoga_Mike]

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/22/remaining-silent-on-the-i-r-s/

:rolleyes: :bang:

And your reaction would be the same if liberal groups had been singled out?

[TJDave]

She violates other's first amendment rights

How did she do that, exactly?

[FantasticDan]

And your reaction would be the same if liberal groups had been singled out?Darned tootin'. Altho liberal orgs weren't given any favors either when it comes to tax exempt status being granted..

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/irs-targeted-tea-party-groups-did-liberal-groups-172738397.html

[NJ Stinks]

She violates other's first amendment rights, then pleads her fifth!
Da bitch alergic to the truth? If she did nothing wrong, what is she hiding?
Water board her and get to the bottom line.

The bottom line is that none of these political groups deserve tax-exempt status. Of course, expecting you to understand that is a waste of time.

Anyway, I read this article about a Tea Party group in NJ that was moaning about not receiving tax exempt status. Here's a paste from the local newspaper:

Keith Peacock, president of West Jersey Tea Party, said the group does not hide the fact that it takes political positions and supports conservative candidates, but he said it also holds classes on the Constitution, civics, and firearms safety.

As I posted previously, the applicable tax law say:

IRC 501(c)(4) says in part:

The promotion of social welfare does not include participation in political campaigns on behalf of or in opposition to any political candidate.

The West Jersey Tea Party got exactly what it deserved - no tax exemption.

What I don't understand is why the IRS hesitated in sending out rejection letters. I know the IRS bends over backwards not to piss off Joe Public but this worry about perception is over the top.

[ArlJim78]

7.25.4.7 (02-08-1999)
Intervention in Political Campaigns

An exempt IRC 501(c)(4) organization may intervene in political campaigns as long as its primary activity is the promotion of social welfare.

[fast4522]

Shit, what happened, did the Moonbats take the day off?

[mostpost]

Keith Peacock, president of West Jersey Tea Party, said the group does not hide the fact that it takes political positions and supports conservative candidates, but he said it also holds classes on the Constitution, civics, and firearms safety.

7.25.4.7 (02-08-1999)
Intervention in Political Campaigns

An exempt IRC 501(c)(4) organization may intervene in political campaigns as long as its primary activity is the promotion of social welfare.

Clearly, social welfare is not the primary activity of the West Jersey Tea Party.
A look at its website proves that. They say that they offer classes on the Constitution, civics, and firearms safety. But no such classes are listed anywhere on their website. What are listed are appearances by conservatives such as James O'Keefe, an evening at a firing range complete with NRA sponsorship and a meet the candidates night for Republican/Tea Party candidates only.

There is no doubt the IRS made the right decision in this case.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...

There is no doubt the IRS made the right decision in this case.

Yup. And I'm sure they'll be after MoveOn.org next since their big contribution to promoting social welfare is "education and advocacy of national issues", which is quite obviously nothing more than pimping Democratic party platforms and tearing into Republican and other conservative affiliated ones. Get rid of tax exempt status for both.

[mostpost]

Yup. And I'm sure they'll be after MoveOn.org next since their big contribution to promoting social welfare is "education and advocacy of national issues", which is quite obviously nothing more than pimping Democratic party platforms and tearing into Republican and other conservative affiliated ones. Get rid of tax exempt status for both.

From the Moveon.org home page.
]MoveOn.org Civic Action is a 501(c)(4) organization [/B]which primarily focuses on nonpartisan education and advocacy on important national issues. MoveOn.org Political Action is a federal political committee which primarily helps members elect candidates who reflect our values through a variety of activities aimed at influencing the outcome of the next election. MoveOn.org Political Action and MoveOn.org Civic Action are separate organizations.

Two separate organizations. One, MoveOn.org Civic Action is a 501(c)(4) organization and is legitimately entitled to tax exempt status. The other, MoveOn.org Political Action is a federal political committee. It does not have tax exempt status. Neither should the West Jersey Tea Party, which not only does not separate its educational and political functions, but does not even fulfill its educational obligations.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...
Two separate organizations. One, MoveOn.org Civic Action is a 501(c)(4) organization and is legitimately entitled to tax exempt status...

Right, but all MoveOn.org Civic does as near as I can tell is operate as an activist group for progressivism and Democratic party policy and call it "education".

About MoveOn.org Civic Action

MoveOn.org Civic Action, a nonprofit educational and advocacy organization, set up in 2001, is home to MoveOn's issue advocacy campaigns as well as many of the online tools MoveOn makes available to progressives across the country.

We are currently focusing on what we call our Million Leaders strategy -- an audacious plan to unleash progressive people power by encouraging and supporting MoveOn members and other progressives to step up as the leaders of their own campaigns for social change. This strategy includes SignOn.org, our online petition tool that empowers you to lead and win your own MoveOn-style campaigns

I've tried to figure out in the past how this group can be a 501c4 and others can't because I've never seen anything to suggest any actual "promotion of social welfare" other than political activism on behalf of one particular ideology. You can make the same case that they do, that they promote policy that promotes social welfare, but just about any group can make that claim if they take even the most basic steps. Holding a few vigils and spending the other 99.999999999% of your efforts raising money to make ads that ridicule Republicans doesn't seem a whole lot more legit than what the NJ Tea Party is up to. Both (and countless others of the same ilk) seem like a typical exploitation of our sham of a tax system.

[NJ Stinks]

Get rid of tax exempt status for both.

I agree.

[ArlJim78]

http://www.breitbart.com/mediaserver/D34D01ADBBA74598BDB85C59BF98230F.jpg
..

the original criteria used to identify "tea party" cases.

[ArlJim78]

I'd like to hear a good explanation for this, because to me it stinks to high heaven especially in light of what we know now about how they targeted their enemies. The most frequent visitor to Obama's White House was the IRS commissioner. Why on earth would that be so? Bush's IRS commissioner recalls going to the WH once.

http://weaselzippers.us/wp-content/uploads/Obama-admin-visitors-550x523.jpg

[johnhannibalsmith]

I'd like to hear a good explanation for this, ...

Don't know how good an explanation it is, but I'm guessing the most likely explanation would be that the ACA is so heavily dependent on IRS and so many costs and burdens will be shifted to them once the albatross tries to fly that the meetings were pretty necessary every step of the way from concept to implementation.

[JustRalph]

Letters directing this effort against the Tea Party were signed by Lerner.

This goes straight to the top.

The Attorney General lies to Congress, the IRS is politically motivated and Benghazi has been forgotten. This is abject Tyranny masked in bumbling bureaucracy.

There is no recourse built into the system. Congress is ball-less and the Dems don't care that their reps are corrupt. Nothing changes. The only recourse is at the state level and until the right starts to realize this, the behind the scenes turmoil will mean nothing. Allowing a corrupt admin to continue to churn.

[magwell]

I'm out of politics but I have one question...... Does the IRS only employ Democrats ? :confused:

[FantasticDan]

I'd like to hear a good explanation for this, because to me it stinks to high heaven especially in light of what we know now about how they targeted their enemies. The most frequent visitor to Obama's White House was the IRS commissioner. Why on earth would that be so?
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/05/30/foxs-latest-irs-attack-debunked-by-foxs-source/194268

:rolleyes:

[NJ Stinks]

The Attorney General lies to Congress, the IRS is politically motivated and Benghazi has been forgotten. This is abject Tyranny masked in bumbling bureaucracy.

There is no recourse built into the system. Congress is ball-less and the Dems don't care that their reps are corrupt. Nothing changes. The only recourse is at the state level and until the right starts to realize this, the behind the scenes turmoil will mean nothing. Allowing a corrupt admin to continue to churn.

1. Holder will get his chance to explain why his testimony was truthful. If he can't, he's out.

2. Any objective citizen can understand why the IRS targeted Tea Party groups since political activity is why they were created in the first place.

3. Clinging to Benghazi makes the right look desperate. Come to think about it - that's about right.

Talk about desperate, have you watched FOX News lately? It's a 24 hour a day regurgitation of these 3 stories. Even their core viewers have to be reaching for the remote out of sheer boredom. :rolleyes:

[ArlJim78]

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/05/30/foxs-latest-irs-attack-debunked-by-foxs-source/194268

:rolleyes:
did you actually read what you posted?:rolleyes:
It does not explain why the IRS commissioner would have to visit the WhiteHouse once a week or more. It refers to his testimony which was completely evasive and lame. There has not been a rational answer to my question.

[NJ Stinks]

I'm out of politics but I have one question...... Does the IRS only employ Democrats ? :confused:

No. But if you work for the federal government today, it quickly becomes clear that Republicans in general could care less about you and your family.

I'll give you a recent example of this. Rep. Dave Camp, a Republican from Michigan, proposed a law last month saying all federal employees except the military and postal workers would have to get their health insurance from exchanges - instead of from their employer as federal employees do today. Of course, this proposed law does not include anyone in private industry. Those people can keep getting their health insurance from their employers.

One of the basic tenets of Obamacare is that one can keep one's employer-based health insurance. Which meant that about 85% of the country would probably keep what they have when the bill was passed. So why would Camp single out federal employees for special treatment?

“If the Obamacare exchanges are good enough for the hardworking Americans and small businesses the law claims to help, then they should be good enough for the president, vice president, Congress and federal employees,” said Camp spokeswoman Sarah Swinehart.

Other than wanting to show disdain for Obamacare, Camp verified once again that Republicans look at and treat federal workers like second class citizens. In short, it's one thing not to go out of your way to promote goodwill between federal employees and the GOP. It's another thing to to go out of your way to single out federal employees for discriminating laws out of bitterness or whatever. :rolleyes:

[Tom]

One of the basic tenets of Obamacare is that one can keep one's employer-based health insurance. Which meant that about 85% of the country would probably keep what they have when the bill was passed. So why would Camp single out federal employees for special treatment?

Surely you can't be so naive as believe that? (Bolded) :lol:
Beside, as we hear is how great the exchanges will be - that is just trying to give the best to federal employees! :lol:

[Tom]

2. Any DERANGED can understand why the IRS targeted Tea Party groups since political activity is why they were created in the first place.

FTFY....what the HELL kind of logic is that?
NO ONE should EVER be targeted. The IRS should do their jobs, follow the guidelines to evaluate the requests, and then deny or accept them, 100% oblivious to what political persuasion they groups is.

You are advocating tyranny, NJ......

[NJ Stinks]

FTFY....what the HELL kind of logic is that?
NO ONE should EVER be targeted. The IRS should do their jobs, follow the guidelines to evaluate the requests, and then deny or accept them, 100% oblivious to what political persuasion they groups is.

You are advocating tyranny, NJ......

The logic that says you target people who are most likely abusing the law.

[magwell]

If republicans also work there, how is it that this has been going on for 3 years and it just came out now ?

[NJ Stinks]

If republicans also work there, how is it that this has been going on for 3 years and it just came out now ?

Because the IRS was not doing anything wrong. Unless you believe Tea Party groups are not primarily involved in political activity and therefore deserve tax-exempt status.

Anybody here believe that Tea Party groups are not primarily involved in political activity? My guess is nobody in the IRS believed it either.

[badcompany]

Because the IRS was not doing anything wrong. Unless you believe Tea Party groups are not primarily involved in political activity and therefore deserve tax-exempt status.

Anybody here believe that Tea Party groups are not primarily involved in political activity? My guess is nobody in the IRS believed it either.


So, why did they apologize?



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/10/irs-apology_n_3253001.html

WASHINGTON — The Internal Revenue Service apologized Friday for what it acknowledged was "inappropriate" targeting of conservative political groups during the 2012 election to see if they were violating their tax-exempt status.

[LottaKash]

our decent into to talitarianism now nearly complete, the nightmare that is Obamacare is set to unfold with this as a backdrop....




And, some more to the story:....



Former IRS Commissioner visited WH more than twice as often as Eric Holder


If you put together all of the White House visits by Cabinet members Eric Holder, Kathleen Sebelius, and Hillary Clinton, you might approach the number (http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/29/irss-shulman-had-more-public-white-house-visits-than-any-cabinet-member/) accumulated by a non-Cabinet official from an agency in the news lately. Douglas Shulman visited the White House far more often during the Obama administration than the closest members of Barack Obama’s own team, with perhaps six times as many visits as Energy Secretary Stephen Chu and Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood:

rest of story here:..http://hotair.com/archives/2013/05/30/former-irs-commissioner-visited-wh-more-than-twice-as-often-as-eric-holder/


" The only White House visit Shulman could recall in detail was taking his kids to the Easter egg roll."....

================================================== =====


"Yikes, we are so screwed.....The IRS is now the new "Police Force"....and you will get to see how this nazi shit really works, very soon, I think...

[NJ Stinks]

So, why did they apologize?



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/10/irs-apology_n_3253001.html

WASHINGTON — The Internal Revenue Service apologized Friday for what it acknowledged was "inappropriate" targeting of conservative political groups during the 2012 election to see if they were violating their tax-exempt status.

Because IRS upper management is led by a political appointee and then you hire/move/transfer top executives from other government agencies who don't know shit about tax law but know a ton about covering their asses.

At least that's how I see it.

Let's face it. Somebody from the IRS who testified before Congress could have made the same argument I'm making. Repeatedly. IMO they didn't because they were worried about their next job/figured they could walk away unscathed if they just dumped everything on the employees in Cincy.

In my time at the IRS we had some great executives. Not many but some.

Here's a quote from the article you linked in your post:

"That was absolutely incorrect, it was insensitive and it was inappropriate. That's not how we go about selecting cases for further review," Lerner said at a conference sponsored by the American Bar Association.


It might be insensitive but it was certainly not inappropriate if one expects the IRS to do a proper job. IMO, of course.

[Tom]

The logic that says you target people who are most likely abusing the law.

And in your mind, that is only Tea Arty people?
You are making my point for me.
The LAW says you target NOBODY and you evaluate all applications equally.

NJ, do you have clue what the IRS was thing.
I don't you know much about this whole thing.

They were targeting individuals, not just groups.
They were asking personal questions that had nothing to do at all with the applications. They were looking for personal info and financial info. They were targeting people to harass and cost tens of thousands of dollars for them to prove their innocence. Ever here the idea of innocent until proven guilty?

Not the justice department, acting on evidence, but the IRS, acting on suspicions, or direct orders from superiors.

I call that tyranny, NJ.
that was what the Nazis did in the early 1930s.
Exactly what they did.
That is what Russia did, what Sadaam Hussein did.

Is that the country your want to live in, NJ?

Are you really that far gone?

[NJ Stinks]

I'm far enough "gone" to say these groups wanted tax-exempt status and most if not all of these groups were not entitled to tax-exempt status.

We will see soon enough who was abusing who.

[Tom]

I'm far enough "gone" to say these groups wanted tax-exempt status and most if not all of these groups were not entitled to tax-exempt status.

We will see soon enough who was abusing who.

You should run for office - you totally ignore facts as good as anyone.
Whether or not they were qualified is not the issue here.
Think about it overnight.

Don't drink any Kool Aid before bed tonight.
This has zero to do with qualifying for the status. Zero.
Da.

[PaceAdvantage]

3. Clinging to Benghazi makes the right look desperate. Come to think about it - that's about right.Funny...you posting this makes you look desperate. Desperate to sweep this under the rug as quickly as possible.

Why do you want Benghazi to go away so badly? I mean, aren't the Dems/Lefties the party that to this day continues to remind us of that "bin Laden determined to attack inside the US" memo that is hailed as some smoking gun of Bush incompetence (or worse, compliance)?

Yet, here we have a total smoking gun situation (albeit on a much smaller scale...but still..the murder of a US Ambassador is nothing to shrug your shoulders at)...and you guys...you hypocrites...you want nothing to do with it..."Nothing to see here folks...you rabble rousers...you conspiracy nuts...take your nut ball and go home...freaks!"

Yeah, ok...that sounds about right... :rolleyes:

[JustRalph]

http://bit.ly/14yvYlS

[Clocker]

Yet, here we have a total smoking gun situation

That would be a smoking missile situation.

Four hundred American surface-to-air missiles were 'taken from Libya' during the terror attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, a former U.S. Attorney who represents whistleblowers claimed on Monday.


He added that the U.S. intelligence community is terrified they might be used to shoot down airliners.




The Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2390642/400-surface-air-missiles-STOLEN-Libya-Benghazi-attack-says-whistle-blowers-attorney.html#ixzz2bxjBVPfB)

Reports are that as many as 35 CIA agents were in various parts of Benghazi at the time of the attack, and that they were using the "CIA Annex" on the consulate grounds as part of an operation smuggling SAMs to rebels in Syria.

But it's probably just another phony scandal dreamed up by Republican operatives to discredit Obama.

[Tom]

Sounds like Bush is at it again.......


This one is going to blowup big time......just in time for Hillary.
I can see the commecials in my head...someone hire me. I will deliver. :cool: :D

[Clocker]

This one is going to blowup big time......just in time for Hillary.


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-U6hBM4XTk3M/UaivrH6rLQI/AAAAAAAAPKs/LJwcpb4g7CA/s1600/hillary-what-difference-does-it-make298x209.jpg

[Tom]

Super-imposed over that terrible scene of our ambassador being dragged through the streets - a perfect summation of what Hillary Clinton is all about.
Trouble is, that would probably draw in a lot votes from the base.

[JustRalph]

People should be in jail by now

http://hotair.com/archives/2014/05/14/new-irs-e-mails-yep-direction-came-from-d-c-and-yep-it-was-political/

More

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/krauthammer-new-emails-proves-lie-in-white-house-claim-irs-didnt-target-gopers/

[fast4522]

When OBO is out of office he can not pardon his people, why jail them now?

[Stillriledup]

When OBO is out of office he can not pardon his people, why jail them now?

Good point.

[mostpost]

People should be in jail by now

http://hotair.com/archives/2014/05/14/new-irs-e-mails-yep-direction-came-from-d-c-and-yep-it-was-political/

More

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/krauthammer-new-emails-proves-lie-in-white-house-claim-irs-didnt-target-gopers/
Your e mails prove nothing, or they prove the opposite of what you think they prove. Asking for information on how a matter is being handled is not ordering it to be handled in a specific manner. Concern about a matter being politically sensitive is the opposite of suggesting that matter be treated politically.

[Clocker]

Asking for information on how a matter is being handled is not ordering it to be handled in a specific manner. Concern about a matter being politically sensitive is the opposite of suggesting that matter be treated politically.

The 2012 memo (http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/JW1559-001689.pdf) in the first link doesn't ask how things are being handled. It quotes a 2010 memo from Washington to Cincy about how to handle things, and asks if things in Cincy are being handled as directed by Washington.

EOT is working the Tea party applications in coordination with Cincy. We are developing a few applications here in DC and providing copies of our development letters with the agent to use as examples in the development of their cases.

EOT is the Washington office in charge of these cases. The 2010 memo shows direction from Washington to Cincy, contradicting the White House story that the whole thing was some rogue agents in Cincy. It also says that some tea party cases had been transferred to EOT in D.C. in 2010.

[mostpost]

When OBO is out of office he can not pardon his people, why jail them now?
On what charge? Doing their jobs? Are we not supposed to ensure that a group requesting tax exempt status is deserving of that status?

In case you don't know it, the president can pardon someone in advance of their being found guilty of a crime and even before they are charged such as Ford did with Nixon. So if Obama is concerned about one of his people going to jail he can issue a conditional pardon. He won't do so because there is no reason to.

[mostpost]

Good point.
Except that it shows a lack of knowledge of the law and history.

[fast4522]

On what charge? Doing their jobs? Are we not supposed to ensure that a group requesting tax exempt status is deserving of that status?

In case you don't know it, the president can pardon someone in advance of their being found guilty of a crime and even before they are charged such as Ford did with Nixon. So if Obama is concerned about one of his people going to jail he can issue a conditional pardon. He won't do so because there is no reason to.

Yes they can, but this one can not take the heat that it would cause.

[tucker6]

mostie,

when I grow up, I can only hope to be as smart and informed as you.

[fast4522]

mostie,

when I grow up, I can only hope to be as smart and informed as you.

just do be as daft as he is.

[Clocker]

Yes they can, but this one can not take the heat that it would cause.

Pardoning his minions would be an admission that they had done something wrong. :rolleyes:

[JustRalph]

On what charge? Doing their jobs? Are we not supposed to ensure that a group requesting tax exempt status is deserving of that status?

In case you don't know it, the president can pardon someone in advance of their being found guilty of a crime and even before they are charged such as Ford did with Nixon. So if Obama is concerned about one of his people going to jail he can issue a conditional pardon. He won't do so because there is no reason to.

First of all, they were not just doing their jobs. They received letters from Sen Levin and Franken asking them to target Tea Party groups after the 2010 elections were so heavily influenced by Tea Party groups. That is obviously targeting a group due to their political beliefs. Several other members of the house sent letters also.

When it comes to issuing pardons especially prior to an indictment it pretty much is an admittance to guilt. How did that work out for Gerry Ford? It also would end up being the first line in the history books when future citizens look up Obamma's legacy. So he is just going to committ a criminal conspiracy by instructing his Attorney General to sit on his hands until their term is up.

[fast4522]

First of all, they were not just doing their jobs. They received letters from Sen Levin and Franken asking them to target Tea Party groups after the 2010 elections were so heavily influenced by Tea Party groups. That is obviously targeting a group due to their political beliefs. Several other members of the house sent letters also.

When it comes to issuing pardons especially prior to an indictment it pretty much is an admittance to guilt. How did that work out for Gerry Ford? It also would end up being the first line in the history books when future citizens look up Obamma's legacy. So he is just going to committ a criminal conspiracy by instructing his Attorney General to sit on his hands until their term is up.


"pardons especially prior to an indictment"

Hey JR, what about pardons especially prior to an impeachment?

[JustRalph]

"pardons especially prior to an indictment"

Hey JR, what about pardons especially prior to an impeachment?

Repubs don't have the balls. If anything they should do it due to the IRS scandal, add Benghazi as an also ran charge and put him in the same box as Clinton in history.

They would never get a conviction, but it would ruin the legacy even more.

BUT THEY DON'T HAVE THE BALLS

[JustRalph]

http://hotair.com/archives/2014/07/31/media-reacts-to-lois-lerners-new-email-hard-to-argue-no-political-bias-there/

This woman needs to go to jail. I notice the defenders of the IRS have let this dog lie for a few days.......

[JustRalph]

http://sharylattkisson.com/hhs-healthcare-gov-official-delete-this-email/

The most transparent admin in history strikes again

[Clocker]

April Fool! We had those emails (http://washingtonexaminer.com/lois-lerners-emails-arent-missing-after-all-lawyers-say/article/2552425)all along.

Government lawyers have told a watchdog group suing over the Internal Revenue Service scandal that Lois Lerner’s emails aren’t missing after all.

Attorneys for the Justice Department surprised Judicial Watch, a right-leaning watchdog group, on Friday by saying that they have copies of every electronic message ever sent from Lerner, a former top IRS official who is a key figure in a targeting scandal involving conservative groups that sought tax-exempt status.

[davew]

April Fool! We had those emails (http://washingtonexaminer.com/lois-lerners-emails-arent-missing-after-all-lawyers-say/article/2552425)all along.

but they may be hard to find with electronic searches and all....

[Robert Goren]

Nearly 200 posts and here is what we know.
The IRS investigation was probably political.
The government has a lousy computer system.
Government employees lie when put on the spot.
The many of the groups, even though the original investigation was political, are nothing more than scams, giving little or no help to tea party candidates in the GOP primaries and should be investigated, but now won't be because of the fuss.

[Tom]

We know a lot more than that, Bobby.
A lot more.

[ArlJim78]

nice inaccurate summary Robert. bad computer system?:lol:

I assume you'll be just as sanguine about the White House using the IRS to go after political enemies when the tables are turned and it's a Republican in the White House.

[Robert Goren]

nice inaccurate summary Robert. bad computer system?:lol:

I assume you'll be just as sanguine about the White House using the IRS to go after political enemies when the tables are turned and it's a Republican in the White House.I have illusions about that. It would be nothing new.

[davew]

summary fairly accurate Robert

need to add that justice department should not allow someone in charge of investigation that was previously working in department being investigated and probably fully aware of illegal activities because they were doing it themselves.

government needs better ability to fire, and if needed jail law breakers working for government.

[ArlJim78]

http://observer.com/2014/08/irs-shocker-filing-reveals-lerner-blackberry-destroyed/

not only did her computer hard drive "crash", they also destroyed her Blackberry after the investigation began.

move along people, nothing to see here.

[Tom]

What ever happened to Obama's investigation?

[Clocker]

What ever happened to Obama's investigation?

The man doesn't dilly-dally around. He got right on it and found that there was “not even a smidgen of corruption.”

Case closed. Next?

[Clocker]

Oops, never mind. Yes, we have the emails, but we are really busy and it would just be too much work (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=1700757) to find them.

For months on end, Internal Revenue Service Commissioner John Koskinen insisted that Lois Lerner's emails were destroyed when her computer's hard drive failed.

Koskinen even told Congress that IRS "moved heaven and earth" trying to recover the emails but simply could not find a way to do so.

Now, thanks to a determined federal judge, the country learns that all government emails are preserved in a doomsday kind of database. Lerner's emails never were lost.

But here's the kicker: According to Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton, government lawyers told U.S. District Judge Emmet Sullivan on Friday that "this back-up system would be too onerous to search." Yes, too onerous.



Too onerous? This is the same IRS that could spend years investigating a dozen people in West Sodbuster, Iowa, that wanted to start a local Tea Party group, but it's too hard for them to retrieve some backed up emails on their system?

If I was that judge, I would have my staff performing the onerous duty of cranking out a whole bunch of contempt citations with a bunch of IRS employee names on them for my signature. Internal Revenue Service Commissioner John Koskinen would be the first name on the list.

[Robert Goren]

I have illusions about that. It would be nothing new.Should have read "I have no illusions" Sorry I did not proof read this post.

[Tom]

Gee, I thought you meant delusions!;)

My bad.

[Robert Goren]

Gee, I thought you meant delusions!;)

My bad.I am told I have plenty of them.

[DJofSD]

http://business.kaspersky.com/what-is-pos-malware-and-why-does-it-cost-millions/2457

For Target Corp, the cost of last year’s gargantuan breach was huge financial and reputational losses, besides Chief Information Officer had to resign in March, and in May Target announced that its CEO had also stepped down.

Any questions?

[DJofSD]

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/competing-views-irs-treatment-tea-party
WASHINGTON (AP) — The Internal Revenue Service has lost emails from five more employees who are part of congressional probes into the treatment of conservative groups that applied for tax-exempt status, the tax service disclosed Friday.

The rest at the link.

[Tom]

Sad thing is many simpletons believe this.
The government depends on simpletons.

[DJofSD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eiRGRvE_Wqg

[JustRalph]

30k emails recovered.

Amazing how that happens after the election.

Lerner in prison someday?

[Tom]

Congressional hearings should be getting their own channel on cable TV come January.

All out war on the DNC and Obama is in order - tie them up under oath.

[davew]

interesting editorial about transparency

http://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/editorial-irs-defies-order-turn-over-tax-documents

[davew]

36K more found on backup tapes - criminal activity by the most corrupt administration in recent history?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2972166/IRS-inspector-tells-Congress-s-investigating-potential-criminal-activity-Lois-Lerner-tea-party-targeting-case-32-000-supposedly-lost-emails-turn-up.html

[DJofSD]

Appears that some one forget to pay off the IT guys.

[JustRalph]

Special prosecutor needed immediately.

The IRS commish is in deep shit

[Tom]

Al Capone was more honest than this bunch.

[Stillriledup]

Lois WINS!

:lol:

[JustRalph]

walks away with a 90k pension

[Tom]

Remember when this was great nation, back before it died of liberalism?

[fast4522]

Remember when this was great nation, back before it died of liberalism?

I am the glass half full sort, but it is hard to dispute your post Tom.

[JustRalph]

http://dailycaller.com/2015/06/14/irs-finds-6400-new-lois-lerner-emails-gives-dumbest-excuse-yet-for-not-releasing-them/

More lies and newly recovered emails

[JustRalph]

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/06/25/tigta-lerner-hard-drive-crash-likely-due-to-an-impact-of-some-sort/

Likely due to impact? Right down to the date.

More bullshit and mirrors.

Lerner should be in prison

[DJofSD]

The access logs for the building were only kept 1 year. By SOP of the vendor.

But that's the vendors SOP. What about the retention period by the IRS, some other federal agency or applicable law or regulation? Additionally, what is the nature of those logs, i.e. were those logs computer based -- one would expect so in this day and age. And if online, were they kept on a system that was regularly backed up? How long were the backups kept? Were any access logs subject to any kind of archival service, i.e. copies written to optical media like those used in the financial industry typically referred to as WORM drives?

The discussion about the HDD in the laptop is suspicious to me. What the IRS technician did or did not do raises some questions. And the actions by the HP technician also raises some questions such as why such an extensive replacement of the various subsystems in the laptop if the fault was identified to be a failed HDD? Every field repair I have ever witnessed was always limited to identifying the bad component and replacing it ASAP and returning the PC to the user so as to get them back to work.

No, this account of what happened does not close any doors, it just raises more questions.

[JustRalph]

If somebody who doesn't know what they are doing has to get at a hard drive to damage it, they are going to break the keyboard etc getting into it.

[DJofSD]

If somebody who doesn't know what they are doing has to get at a hard drive to damage it, they are going to break the keyboard etc getting into it.

Getting into it? Do you mean taking it apart to access the HDD?

Not knowing the make or model of the PC she was using I can not say for sure the following is applicable, however, the many different HP laptops I have disassembled, repaired and even done a bit if part swapping, the HDD is very easy to get to and does not require breaking anything.

But, if what you are saying is some one hit the PC in order to cause the HDD to "crash" then, yes, the keyboard could very well been where the hammer, stapler or corner of the desk impacted the PC.

Too bad they weren't using Lenovo's (I think) which has safeguards to protect the HDD during expected rough and tumble events such as falling off a desktop to the floor.

I don't mean to appear argumentative, JR. I just think there's some hard (no pun intended) questions that need to be asked about the repair/recovery of the laptop.

P.S. In defense of Mr. Camus, differentiating between degaussing and destroying is not a ploy. It is a distinction with a difference and it is important for the committee chairman to understand what is a normal part of most devop processes.

[JustRalph]

I agree with you. But the scenario I envision is just as you say. Somebody whacking a laptop against a desk etc

[rastajenk]

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/06/25/tigta-lerner-hard-drive-crash-likely-due-to-an-impact-of-some-sort/
Lerner should be in prison
So should her handlers. She's not in this alone.

[Clocker]

Congress is considering impeachment of IRS Commissioner John Koskinen and other high level officials.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420277/irs-scandal-house-republicans-impeaching-commissioner-koskinen

[JustRalph]

Congress is considering impeachment of IRS Commissioner John Koskinen and other high level officials.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420277/irs-scandal-house-republicans-impeaching-commissioner-koskinen

They don't have the balls........this set of wet noodles is all talk

[Tom]

Wet noodles are tougher.

[davew]

FBI and DOJ involved in targeting with the most transparent administration in history? (according to them)

http://nypost.com/2015/07/07/the-irs-scandal-just-got-even-worse/

[FantasticDan]

BUMP

GOP Surrenders Cherished IRS Scandal at Last
The fiction served the GOP for years, yet died
quietly this month, forsaken and alone.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-11-20/gop-surrenders-cherished-irs-scandal-at-last

[davew]

BUMP

GOP Surrenders Cherished IRS Scandal at Last
The fiction served the GOP for years, yet died
quietly this month, forsaken and alone.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-11-20/gop-surrenders-cherished-irs-scandal-at-last

how can you link a liberal journalist opinion piece as anything but their opinion?


Lois Lerner and Holly Paz requested their hearing transcripts sealed for fear of retaliation.

https://finneylawfirm.com/2017/09/19/enquirer-reports-developments-tea-party-v-irs-litigation/

[incoming]

For some everything goes into one pot with a quick stir...numbers and analogies or not strong suits for most liberals.

[Tom]

how can you link a liberal journalist opinion piece as anything but their opinion?

That is what they call facts.
Usually how it works is one of them writes an opinion piece and then the rest use it to "prove" something. Like the Dossier on Trump.

[NJ Stinks]

BUMP

GOP Surrenders Cherished IRS Scandal at Last
The fiction served the GOP for years, yet died
quietly this month, forsaken and alone.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-11-20/gop-surrenders-cherished-irs-scandal-at-last

If anyone is wandering why your bridges are falling apart and there is no money for anything but tanks, be sure to thank the nitwits who sold this bulls**t to the nitwits who couldn't wait to buy it.

Put another way - keep cutting the IRS budget and see what kind of a country you wind up with.

[incoming]

Sounds like an opinion of an ex-IRS agent. ;)

[FantasticDan]

That is what they call facts.
Usually how it works is one of them writes an opinion piece and then the rest use it to "prove" something. Like the Dossier on Trump.
:D :ThmbUp:

Facts (Non-Alternate):

Republicans claimed the IRS served as an attack dog for the Obama White House. But inquiries by the House Ways and Means Committee, the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, the Senate Finance Committee, the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations and the Justice Department all failed to produce evidence of political interference.

[Tom]

Failed to produce evidence.....same clause in the RUSSIANS probe,

The victimized organizations are all I need - you know, like a all a woman has to do is say so and you buy it.

Gee, you are selective in your beliefs.

[davew]

That is what they call facts.
Usually how it works is one of them writes an opinion piece and then the rest use it to "prove" something. Like the Dossier on Trump.

one demwit repeats another demwit's opinion and it becomes widely reported or commonly known?

[Clocker]

:D :ThmbUp:

Facts (Non-Alternate):

Republicans claimed the IRS served as an attack dog for the Obama White House. But inquiries by the House Ways and Means Committee, the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, the Senate Finance Committee, the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations and the Justice Department all failed to produce evidence of political interference.

Double dog facts:

Attorney General Jeff Sessions last month announced the Justice Department had entered into settlements with the Tea Party groups whose tax-exempt status was significantly delayed by the IRS dating back to 2013, “based solely on their viewpoint or ideology.”

The settlements involved payments to the plaintiffs and an apology from the IRS.
Payments to the plaintiffs are reported to be $3.5 million of our tax money.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/11/20/lois-lerner-wants-irs-testimony-sealed-fearing-death-threats.html?intcmp=ob_article_sidebar_video&intcmp=obnetwork

[FakeNameChanged]

Double dog facts:

Payments to the plaintiffs are reported to be $3.5 million of our tax money.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/11/20/lois-lerner-wants-irs-testimony-sealed-fearing-death-threats.html?intcmp=ob_article_sidebar_video&intcmp=obnetwork
Will they be paying back taxpayers for line dancing training session?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77F0LgVB_KU

also reported on NBC and CNN news but their videos would not embed.

[Tom]

one demwit repeats another demwit's opinion and it becomes widely reported or commonly known?

One lies and the other one swears to it.

[incoming]

Double dog facts:

Payments to the plaintiffs are reported to be $3.5 million of our tax money.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/11/20/lois-lerner-wants-irs-testimony-sealed-fearing-death-threats.html?intcmp=ob_article_sidebar_video&intcmp=obnetwork

Thanks for posting link....once again liberal sources get blown out of the water. Hopefully, Lois Leaner's testimony behind closed doors will become public . If she is not going to jail the very least that should happen would be public humiliation for abusive use of her powers. Of course, she will still receive her pension....what a sham!!!:puke::puke:

Thank you Jeff Sessions and President Trump.

The video states very good reasons for making her court records public.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/11/20/lois-lerner-wants-irs-testimony-sealed-fearing-death-threats.html?intcmp=ob_article_sidebar_video&intcmp=obnetwork

[Clocker]

Hopefully, Lois Leaner's testimony behind closed doors will become public .

She is requesting that her testimony be sealed in perpetuity, saying that she fears great harm or even death threats if it is ever revealed to the public.

Gee, could that mean that she told the truth? :faint:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=141925