Calder signal pulled

[Al Gobbi]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/77969/florida-hbpa-blocks-export-of-calder-signal

[Tom]

Greedy bastards.
I would cut the purses to next to nothing.
And strictly enforce every single rule in the book with fines.

[Hosshead]

If you can't watch it, ..... don't bet it !

[lamboguy]

does this mean that we can't watch Calder over the internet now?

[BIG49010]

State of Florida should make them pull out slots, that would change everyone's tune!

[Tom]

Great idea - no horses, no slots.

[Charli125]

Great idea - no horses, no slots.

Fantastic idea. Calder joins Thistledown as tracks that are running, but won't take my money. Brilliant move.

[cj]

There are a lot of things I care about in horse racing. This isn't one of them.

[lamboguy]

the calder feed isn't on today, i wanted to watch one of our horses today.

[Longshot6977]

If you can't watch it, ..... don't bet it !

Agree 100%. When 4NJBets didn't have any NYRA videos, I never bet those tracks. This occurred for many years. As soon as TVG was the wagering platform on March 1 this year, we got the NYRA videos. Only then would I bet Aqueduct. Other NJ residents I spoke to had done the same thing. No video= no wagering.

[woodbinepmi]

Just took a look at the numbers so far, compared to last Thursday's double pool it is down to $2,823 from $28,432. In the pick three, todays pool was $1,344 to $12,010 last week. Good job Calder!

[cj]

Just took a look at the numbers so far, compared to last Thursday's double pool it is down to $2,823 from $28,432. In the pick three, todays pool was $1,344 to $12,010 last week. Good job Calder!

The horsemen are withholding the signal, not Calder.

[lamboguy]

if this is the way the horsemen chose to act, i can't blame the track for doing what they are doing. there should be a way to work things out without taking drastic measures. i want to watch a horse run in the baby race and now i am punished. the smaller handle is going to hurt the horsemen purse wise. i don't think the track really cares if they have horses or not.

[lamboguy]

6th race

3.20 8.20 7.00


naturally, i only bet the sucker to win like the dope i am

[NJ Stinks]

6th race

3.20 8.20 7.00


naturally, i only bet the sucker to win like the dope i am

Ouch!

[_______]

There's a lot of strange payouts with the small pools. The second race had a $55 winner and $52.20 exacta.

[lamboguy]

Ouch!i guess i am lucky, i don't have any more horses that are there that can win right now no matter how much they have in those pools.

[appistappis]

you try to attract some new players to the game and they ask you why calder and hollywood are in the form and you cannot bet on them while you can bet on penn, pr mead, rem, lone star, ct, evangeline and they are not in the form. They all went back to the casino.

[thespaah]

How many of you have heard this song before. Every time there is an issue with a simulcast signal, it's the Horsemen behind the cause.
These people seem to always be whining about something and they quick to take something from others.
Someone needs to finally put their foot down and make these guys realize they don't rule the roost.

[CryingForTheHorses]

The horsemen are withholding the signal, not Calder.


Its funny you say that CJ when us horseman arent even informed at what is going on..Its not us but the HBPA that has done this...Blackmail if you ask me..Dont forget RITVO and COMBEST the head of the HBPA are best buddies..Funny how they used to both kiss ass at Calder...This is another ploy by GP and Combest to screw Calder..

[thespaah]

Its funny you say that CJ when us horseman arent even informed at what is going on..Its not us but the HBPA that has done this...Blackmail if you ask me..Dont forget RITVO and COMBEST the head of the HBPA are best buddies..Funny how they used to both kiss ass at Calder...This is another ploy by GP and Combest to screw Calder..
Ok...I must ask...The HBPA represents whom?
"We don't know" doesn't cut it.

[cj]

Ok...I must ask...The HBPA represents whom?
"We don't know" doesn't cut it.

Exactly, it is a horsemen's group. I'm sure they have their reasons for blocking the signal, but it isn't Calder, the track itself, doing it.

[davew]

Can they cut the purses to 10% of current (to match handle) today, or do they have to wait until next condition book?

[thespaah]

Exactly, it is a horsemen's group. I'm sure they have their reasons for blocking the signal, but it isn't Calder, the track itself, doing it.
It's not logical in the sense that "you're not paying us enough money. Therefore we want ZERO money"...
I would imagine that the common theme in these disputes is the horsemen have all the leverage.
If they refuse to drop horses into the entry box, they can shut down the track.
Well, suppose for a moment, Calder's owners go to court and obtain a restraining order barring the horsemen from engaging in any action which causes the track to violate its legal obligation to run dates as agreed to with the State Of Florida?
So the Calder mgmnt essentially go to the State and say "these guys refuse to run. They are prohibiting us from fulfilling our obligation to the State.
The State govt steps in and stops the horsemen from boycotting the entry box.
Anyone please chime in...

[sjk]

It sounds like the horsemen are trying to get open access to ship between tracks. That could only help field size and give us more playable races.

It seems a real shame that the group here is so anti-horseman that they would not entertain the thought that what they are seeking may be good for the players.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...
I would imagine that the common theme in these disputes is the horsemen have all the leverage.
If they refuse to drop horses into the entry box, they can shut down the track...

I certainly don't know anything about the Florida HBPA and whatever the beef is there, but in my experiences, the horsemen have ultimately two tools as leverage in any negotiation that reaches essentially a stalemate:

a) boycotting entries.

b) withholding signal.

Action a) requires almost consensus opinion. You can't boycott the entries if half the barn area isn't on board. Management is fairly deft at putting the kibosh on this action when there is any dissent. Take entries from those that will enter and if you can assemble a card of four horse fields and divide the horsemen further, the boycott falls on its face.

Action b) simply requires the representative group, HBPA or whatever, to pull its lone trump card and certainly doesn't require any consensus opinion from the lowly rank and file. Considering the amount of time the typical backside employee spends lamenting their representatives, amazingly, the same core groups seem to get voted in over and over again at most of those places that I've been to. It would be surprising I guess if we didn't have Congressional elections to reinforce the phenomenon.

If anyone here actually thinks that an overwhelming majority of horsemen everywhere consider their local HBPA as the brightest minds on the backside and find their performance infallible, welp...

I don't have any problem with a horsemen's group withholding the signal as a last action if the fight is worth fighting. Scenarios vary from location to location and I've seen this sort of fighting happen over some silly stuff, without appropriate concern for the customer, nor with respect for the seriousness of whipping out the "trump card". But, I've seen management that had the tables tilted right in their laps with patsy HBPA installations that needed to finally have their extortion-style negotiations met with a similar rebuttal to level the table once again.

Without really knowing what the stakes are here, it would be silly to have an opinion. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if as McShell alludes to, this isn't a fight that has the overwhelming support of local horsemen just because the local HBPA initiated the extreme action.

[cj]

It sounds like the horsemen are trying to get open access to ship between tracks. That could only help field size and give us more playable races.

It seems a real shame that the group here is so anti-horseman that they would not entertain the thought that what they are seeking may be good for the players.

I didn't take one side or the other. I can see both sides of the argument. It is ridiculous that two tracks are trying to run at the same time when in the past, at this time of year, one track doesn't even have decent fields.

[mannyberrios]

6th race

3.20 8.20 7.00


naturally, i only bet the sucker to win like the dope i am
:) :bang: :bang:

[PICSIX]

Ok...I must ask...The HBPA represents whom?
"We don't know" doesn't cut it.

Do you vote in any public/government elections? I'll step out on a limb and assume you do. In that case, you know damn well that you don't agree with everything those elected officials do after receiving your vote. You have no control over what they may or may not do, right? Yet, they represent YOU!!!

[PICSIX]

Exactly, it is a horsemen's group. I'm sure they have their reasons for blocking the signal, but it isn't Calder, the track itself, doing it.

See response to thespaah!

[thespaah]

It sounds like the horsemen are trying to get open access to ship between tracks. That could only help field size and give us more playable races.

It seems a real shame that the group here is so anti-horseman that they would not entertain the thought that what they are seeking may be good for the players.
Not anti horsemen. Simply want to see a balance of interest among the parties.

[thespaah]

Do you vote in any public/government elections? I'll step out on a limb and assume you do. In that case, you know damn well that you don't agree with everything those elected officials do after receiving your vote. You have no control over what they may or may not do, right? Yet, they represent YOU!!!
Oh please. That is a straw man argument.
You are comparing the actions of one person who represents a constituency of 750,000 people half of which have no clue the name of their US House member, vs a relatively small and involved group of people who are part of a single profession.

[Tom]

With all the other tracks running, why would anyone want to bet Gulfstream Park in July?

[Dave Schwartz]

While I see that point of view about how the horsemen might have a good reason, I've gotta go with Spaah on this one.

From track to track, the self-centeredness of the horsemen's groups have done almost as much damage to the system as the greed of the track owners.

McSchell, not saying that there aren't horsemen who disagree, but if they are in disagreement, then we should be hearing stories about lack of solidarity from the rank and file. If not, then most are going along with it at the least.

[Tom]

The game is about betting.
Whatever it takes to put the show on for the bettors is what is required by both sides. Whatever it takes. Nothing else matters.

The only side who is right is the people who push the money through the windows. The others do not really matter. They are both replaceable. We are not.

[Robert Goren]

The game is about betting.
Whatever it takes to put the show on for the bettors is what is required by both sides. Whatever it takes. Nothing else matters.

The only side who is right is the people who push the money through the windows. The others do not really matter. They are both replaceable. We are not.I agree, but that doesn't stop both sides from trying to replace us with other revenue streams.

[Dave Schwartz]

The game is about betting.

Therein lies the problem.

Many horsemen believe that we exist to support the great sport known as "The Trainer's Pay Check."

[Tom]

Why do we even need trainers?
Let the Vets take over - eliminate the middlemen.

[Stillriledup]

The game is about betting.
Whatever it takes to put the show on for the bettors is what is required by both sides. Whatever it takes. Nothing else matters.

The only side who is right is the people who push the money through the windows. The others do not really matter. They are both replaceable. We are not.

This is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Problem is, the racing industry can't handle the truth.

Trainers, owners and jockeys are the 'big shots' while the bettors are peons, a necessary evil.

Think of how much better this game would be if the people who put on the show acted as if the 'customer was always right' and they were just there to ask "if there's anything i can do to make your experience better, let me know"

The people who put on the show just have to ACT like its not their game and its the bettors game. Act as if the customer matters. Even if you don't mean it in your heart of hearts....just play pretend.

Its like a 9 dollar an hour sales clerk at a department store asking a customer "if there's anything you need, let me know" when they're thinking to themselves "god, i can't wait to get the heck out of there" but they do have a smile on their face and they act like they're the lowly employee and the customer is king.

In racing, the "employees" act as if they're king while the customers are the lowly peons.

Maybe Jeff Mullins.....

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18430&highlight=mullins+unloads

...had it right all along.

[thespaah]

The game is about betting.
Whatever it takes to put the show on for the bettors is what is required by both sides. Whatever it takes. Nothing else matters.

The only side who is right is the people who push the money through the windows. The others do not really matter. They are both replaceable. We are not.
Yep..However, in reading the words of some of those posters in the business, the industry insiders generally look upon the bettors with a range of views. All negative. From a necessary evil, to the notion that bettors are pond scum. The thing is, without the players, the industry becomes a hobby for wealthy people in need of a tax writeoff.

[thespaah]

I am going to piss off come you people but so be it..
Many of us who bet on horse racing and comment here have made their views on this issue quite clear.
Now, we ALL get what we deserve because we are the enablers.
Clearly there is a way to get back at those horsemen who views us with disdain. That would be to boycott the pools. Shut them down for a week or two pr least to a mere trickle of the normal handle and see what happens.

[Stillriledup]

I am going to piss off come you people but so be it..
Many of us who bet on horse racing and comment here have made their views on this issue quite clear.
Now, we ALL get what we deserve because we are the enablers.
Clearly there is a way to get back at those horsemen who views us with disdain. That would be to boycott the pools. Shut them down for a week or two pr least to a mere trickle of the normal handle and see what happens.

I would have no problem boycotting. But, if nobody else boycotts, what good does it do me?

[thespaah]

I would have no problem boycotting. But, if nobody else boycotts, what good does it do me?
Obviously, it has to be a collective and massive effort. With all the big players involved.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Obviously, it has to be a collective and massive effort. With all the big players involved.

Unfortunately, even still, if recent history means much of anything, any such situation would be interpreted by plenty-o'-management and horsemen as evidence that slot subsidies and a bigger cut of the winning tickets are a priority and legislators need to be purchased ASAP to make it happen.

[lamboguy]

I would have no problem boycotting. But, if nobody else boycotts, what good does it do me?nobody cares if everyone boycotts the tracks, if they went after the machines, it would be another story

[thespaah]

Judging by the "why bother" responses, unfortunately, the complaining will continue. The 'doing something about it' will never start.
Let us not forget, there are no slots At BFP or SA....Or Keeneland/ Churchill. Nor are they at Arlington. Or Monmouth.
NY has them. But really, how much of an effect would a dramatic drop in revenue have on Belmont and Saratoga? IMO, a bunch.
If no one wants to try, well...

[BIG49010]

I just heard Tampa is having summer races also, what do Tampa and Gulfstream expect climate change?

[Ocala Mike]

I just heard Tampa is having summer races also, what do Tampa and Gulfstream expect climate change?

They're running a single race day meeting on July 1st. The horses will be shipped in mostly from the Ocala area. Not sure what their motive is, but must be some kind of ploy necessitated by the arcane wagering rules promulgated by this state.

[Stillriledup]

Anyone boycotting Calder, ya know, to teach them a lesson?

[cnollfan]

Anyone boycotting Calder, ya know, to teach them a lesson?

I quit following them until the dispute was settled, but apparently it is settled now.

[lamboguy]

i just heard that Gulfstream got year round simulcasting.


the other sad news of the day is that Betfair Hollywood Park announced that 2013 will be their last year racing.

[therussmeister]

They're running a single race day meeting on July 1st. The horses will be shipped in mostly from the Ocala area. Not sure what their motive is, but must be some kind of ploy necessitated by the arcane wagering rules promulgated by this state.
I think the one day meet allows them to buy simulcast signals on their own, otherwise they would be forced to go through Calder to obtain simulcast rights.

[Ocala Mike]

I belive you are correct, therussmeister, and I see GP is doing exactly the same thing. Florida horse racing regulators are about as competent as those AL umps that worked the A's game last night.

[PICSIX]

http://www.drf.com/news/calder-horsemen-reach-short-term-agreement