Pletcher

[highnote]

I had forgotten if Pletcher had ever won a KY Derby, so I googled it. He won with Super Saver in 2010 (how quickly we forget!).

I found this little piece of biographical info on him on Cindy Pierson Dulay's About.com racing page: http://horseracing.about.com/od/trainersjockeys/p/aapletcherbio.htm :

Todd Pletcher became the 26th trainer to score 3000 wins, in the 3rd race at Gulfstream Park on Saturday February 11 with Spring Hill Farm. He ranks 17th among active trainers in victories, a list led by Jack Van Berg with 6,410.

She makes it sound like Van Berg is in first place with the most wins.

Those guys aren't even within shouting distance of Dale Baird's record of 8,819 wins.

Cindy is a "horse racing on the internet" pioneer and has done a lot for the sport. I hope she didn't forget about Dale!

[PhantomOnTour]

Active trainers is what the blurb says, so she's correct, right?

[cj]

king leatherbury has to be getting up there.

[speed]

Steve A. has to be over 6000 wins as does Leatherbury i think. Lake has to be over 5000 as well.

[Rise Over Run]

Lake is well over 5,000 wins now, just not sure how many. I can remember a winners circle photo op in November/December 2010 at Laurel, only because I was there that day to see a friends horse run. I think he's still trying to get to the finish line. :lol: :lol:

[nijinski]

[QUOTE=highnote]I had forgotten if Pletcher had ever won a KY Derby, so I googled it. He won with Super Saver in 2010 (how quickly we forget!).

I found this little piece of biographical info on him on Cindy Pierson Dulay's About.com racing page: http://horseracing.about.com/od/trainersjockeys/p/aapletcherbio.htm :



She makes it sound like Van Berg is in first place with the most wins.

Those guys aren't even within shouting distance of Dale Baird's record of 8,819 wins.

Cindy is a "horse racing on the internet" pioneer and has done a lot for the sport. I hope she didn't forget about Dale![/QUOTE


Dale Baird lost all chance of getting the the highest of praise . If you don't respect the horses , that's what happens .
I'll clarify that by noting his friendship with the kill buyer trucker that came to Mountaineer .

[highnote]

Active trainers is what the blurb says, so she's correct, right?


I stand corrected! :)

[highnote]

Dale Baird lost all chance of getting the the highest of praise . If you don't respect the horses , that's what happens .
I'll clarify that by noting his friendship with the kill buyer trucker that came to Mountaineer .


I think you have to consider Baird in the time and location in which he lived.

An analogous situation: George Washington deserves praise for his work as president, but criticism for being a slave owner.

Baird deserves praise for being the winningest U.S. trainer of modern times (or all time?). And he deserves criticism for selling his horses to the "killer man".

Many trainers at Mountaineer/Waterford Park sell or have sold their horses to the "killer man". I know. I used to race there and grew up near there.

So I don't think you can criticise Baird or Washington too much for doing what was common practice at the time and place in which they lived.

Pigs, which are smarter than horses, get treated worse than horses. Someday, will humans be appalled at the way pigs are treated now? If so, will humans also be appalled at the way horses today are still being bred and raced for the sole purpose of wagering upon them for human entertainment?

[nijinski]

I think you have to consider Baird in the time and location in which he lived.

An analogous situation: George Washington deserves praise for his work as president, but criticism for being a slave owner.

Baird deserves praise for being the winningest U.S. trainer of modern times (or all time?). And he deserves criticism for selling his horses to the "killer man".

Many trainers at Mountaineer/Waterford Park sell or have sold their horses to the "killer man". I know. I used to race there and grew up near there.

So I don't think you can criticise Baird or Washington too much for doing what was common practice at the time and place in which they lived.

Pigs, which are smarter than horses, get treated worse than horses. Someday, will humans be appalled at the way pigs are treated now? If so, will humans also be appalled at the way horses today are still being bred and raced for the sole purpose of wagering upon them for human entertainment?

It was quite a long time ago when you would open up the DRF and see the
adds and appeals from the Exceller Fund or years later the story of Ferdinand . He and others had time to reflect and change their habits .

Regarding those winningest trainer stats . Well ok . But can you put him in the HOF knowing he still made money off them on there way to SugarCreek .
That argument has come up and it's likely why it won't happen .

[highnote]

It was quite a long time ago when you would open up the DRF and see the
adds and appeals from the Exceller Fund or years later the story of Ferdinand . He and others had time to reflect and change their habits .


Maybe so, but they're humans and they're not perfect. George Washington must have known on some level that slavery was wrong, but he still owned slaves and we still put him on a pedestal. He advocated abolition during his lifetime, but he did not free his slaves until his death.

On some level maybe Baird did not like sending his horses to the killer man? I don't know. I never asked him. I know my trainer sent some to the killer and she didn't like it. [this was before she trained my horses] It's not an easy thing to justify, but West Virginia is a tough place to operate a business -- especially in the days before slots when the purses were $1,500. Getting a $400 from the killer man might mean staying in business another month for some trainers. Not saying it's right, but the racetrack is a tough place.

Regarding those winningest trainer stats . Well ok . But can you put him in the HOF knowing he still made money off them on there way to SugarCreek .
That argument has come up and it's likely why it won't happen .

George Washington once owned 317 slaves. "George Washington bought, sold, inherited, and otherwise acquired hundreds of slaves over his lifetime, at one point even helping to manage a lottery in which slave children were "prizes." http://www.understandingprejudice.org/slavery/presinfo.php?president=1

If George Washington is worthy of a place at the pinnacle of U.S. history then I think Dale Baird is worthy of being in the HOF.

The goal is to win races and Dale Baird trained more winners than anyone in history.

[Striker]

Steve Asmussen passed Van Berg for 2nd all time on the wins list late last month at Fairgrounds, so after that article was written.

[highnote]

Steve Asmussen passed Van Berg for 2nd all time on the wins list late last month at Fairgrounds, so after that article was written.

Note:

http://www.nola.com/horseracing/index.ssf/2013/03/trainer_steve_asmussen_moves_i.html

As for the next milestone [for Asmussen], that one might take a while. The late Dale Baird has a commanding lead as the all-time wins leader with 9,445.

[nijinski]

Maybe so, but they're humans and they're not perfect. George Washington must have known on some level that slavery was wrong, but he still owned slaves and we still put him on a pedestal. He advocated abolition during his lifetime, but he did not free his slaves until his death.

On some level maybe Baird did not like sending his horses to the killer man? I don't know. I never asked him. I know my trainer sent some to the killer and she didn't like it. [this was before she trained my horses] It's not an easy thing to justify, but West Virginia is a tough place to operate a business -- especially in the days before slots when the purses were $1,500. Getting a $400 from the killer man might mean staying in business another month for some trainers. Not saying it's right, but the racetrack is a tough place.



George Washington once owned 317 slaves. "George Washington bought, sold, inherited, and otherwise acquired hundreds of slaves over his lifetime, at one point even helping to manage a lottery in which slave children were "prizes." http://www.understandingprejudice.org/slavery/presinfo.php?president=1

If George Washington is worthy of a place at the pinnacle of U.S. history then I think Dale Baird is worthy of being in the HOF.

The goal is to win races and Dale Baird trained more winners than anyone in history.

I kind of feel bad about this for your sake as he was likely a local hero for you . I don't think it's likely to happen . The image of the sport is very big deal right now .
I think we hijacked the Pletcher thread enough , lol .

[highnote]

I kind of feel bad about this for your sake as he was likely a local hero for you . I don't think it's likely to happen . The image of the sport is very big deal right now .
I think we hijacked the Pletcher thread enough , lol .


Don't feel bad for me. I never met the man. But he is more than a local hero, he is a racing legend to many people.

Don't feel bad about hijacking the thread -- I'm the one who started it! :D

[Striker]

Steve A if he stays on par should pass Dale B in about 10 years or so, given he usually gets about 300 wins a year now and already has 114 or so wins this year, unless he gets back to winning at a scorching rate like he did in 2008-2010.

[highnote]

Steve A if he stays on par should pass Dale B in about 10 years or so, given he usually gets about 300 wins a year now and already has 114 or so wins this year, unless he gets back to winning at a scorching rate like he did in 2008-2010.

Sounds like he might have a shot at it!

Oh, and speaking of trainers whose actions should bar them from getting into the HOF... ;)

[Fastracehorse]

Steve A. has to be over 6000 wins as does Leatherbury i think. Lake has to be over 5000 as well.

Passed Jack in March to be 2nd ALL-TIME for wins in North America; it was at FG

the guy is just rolling everywhere in NA at this time - i saw him sweep the late p-3 at Oaklawn recently where he is smoking

fffastt