On Gun Control and Wednesday's vote

[PaceAdvantage]

I keep reading on this website how dead the Republican party is...how they aren't inclusive and will never win another election because they don't relate to minorities (who are quickly catching up to majority status).

And yet, these same "impotent" Republicans can block legislation as we saw today, even in the SENATE where they aren't the majority!!!! :lol:

Keep telling me how powerless Republicans are...

Now, on a related but completely different subject...(think about that for a while)...

How funny was it to watch Joe Biden's face as he stood there with Obama and Giffords and the rest?

I mean, was there ever a more sourpuss seen on the national stage? He was SO putting us on with that act...wasn't he the one telling his wife to grab the shotgun and let off a couple of rounds to scare away would-be intruders?

What a clown ham actor Joe "Plugs" is...check out these pics:

http://eldiariodechihuahua.mx/imagesnotas/2013/04/EL_784369AL_1.jpg

http://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.5093601.1366246422!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/display_600/image.jpg

Now I know where Jeff Dunham got the inspiration for his dummy Walter:

http://images.wikio.com/images/p/43bf6/jeff-dunham-tickets-jeff-dunham-theatre-tickets.jpeg

http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/2/2/0/6/9/1/3/Biden-81615874519.jpeg

[pandy]

I don't know what I'm missing here. How does a background check take away gun owner's rights? The Senators who voted this down are gutless, just want to hang on to their jobs. Better background checks are needed and this was really a no-brainer improvement in the gun laws. These gun shows where people can go buy a guy without any background check are ridiculous.

[lamboguy]

i think the republicans are on the right side of this issue. there should be more guns out there so people can protect themselves. the people that get the guns should have training so they can use those guns properly.


how stupid is it to limit law abiding citizens to 10 rounds in their magazines when the crooks are still going to have 30 or more?

the time to get rid of guns was about 200 years ago, sometimes its worse to try to right a wrong like in this case.

if those teachers in Conneticut had peace keepers by their sides, someone might have been able to stop this god awful deed by this lunatic.

[newtothegame]

I don't know what I'm missing here. How does a background check take away gun owner's rights? The Senators who voted this down are gutless, just want to hang on to their jobs. Better background checks are needed and this was really a no-brainer improvement in the gun laws. These gun shows where people can go buy a guy without any background check are ridiculous.
Pandy, I am not against stronger background checks...but, how would stronger checks stop what happened in Newtown CT?
How many criminals go through background checks?
The percentage of mentally loose people who would POSSIBLY be caught in background checks is ( I would imagine) very small. Then to go a step further, those mentally ill that have intent on killing is probably even smaller.

So, basically, what does the background check really do? If the legislature wants to REALLY stop the killings with guns, is this the way to do it?? I think that's the argument at hand.

[Robert Goren]

Pandy, I am not against stronger background checks...but, how would stronger checks stop what happened in Newtown CT?
How many criminals go through background checks?
The percentage of mentally loose people who would POSSIBLY be caught in background checks is ( I would imagine) very small. Then to go a step further, those mentally ill that have intent on killing is probably even smaller.

So, basically, what does the background check really do? If the legislature wants to REALLY stop the killings with guns, is this the way to do it?? I think that's the argument at hand. It probably would not stopped what happened Newtown, but it might have stopped what happened in Denver theater shooting and what happened at Gabby's political rally in Arizona.

[newtothegame]

It probably would not stopped what happened Newtown, but it might have stopped what happened in Denver theater shooting and what happened at Gabby's political rally in Arizona.

So your argument is lets stop ONE crime and not go after the other HUNDREDS??? an you even present a valid argument as to how many crimes these background checks would stop in relation to the total number of gun crimes?

[pandy]

I'm a numbers guy. Last year over 9,000 people were murdered by guns in this country. If better background checks cut these gun crimes down by 10%, that's over 900 lives saved. Then you work on other things that will help, but you have to start somewhere and you have to be smart. Having gun shows that have NO background checks is stupid.

I know saving 900 lives may not seem like much but believe me, to the families who suffer when their loved one is murdered by a gun shot, it is.

Personally I think that a lot of people don't understand how crime hurts our society because they grew up or live in an area with low crime. As a kid I grew up in East New York, a rough area. Fortunately we moved to Long Island when I was 10 but I got mugged there anyway, knife in my ribs.

But I saw first hand in Brooklyn how crime affected our lives and the lives of our neighbors, it made me realize how important it is to confront these problems aggressively. Stricter background checks are a step in the right direction. We should also have much stiffer penalties for selling guns illegally, and all crimes with guns, including armed robbery,should carry stiffer sentences. We can do this but we need to have smarter laws and we need to enforce the laws we have (which many cities don't do). Plus we have to fix cultural problems such as bullying in schools, etc.

[newtothegame]

I'm a numbers guy. Last year over 9,000 people were murdered by guns in this country. If better background checks cut these gun crimes down by 10%, that's over 900 lives saved. Then you work on other things that will help, but you have to start somewhere and you have to be smart. Having gun shows that have NO background checks is stupid.

I know saving 900 lives may not seem like much but believe me, to the families who suffer when their loved one is murdered by a gun shot, it is.

Personally I think that a lot of people don't understand how crime hurts our society because they grew up or live in an area with low crime. As a kid I grew up in East New York, a rough area. Fortunately we moved to Long Island when I was 10 but I got mugged there anyway, knife in my ribs.

But I saw first hand in Brooklyn how crime affected our lives and the lives of our neighbors, it made me realize how important it is to confront these problems aggressively. Stricter background checks are a step in the right direction. We should also have much stiffer penalties for selling guns illegally, and all crimes with guns, including armed robbery,should carry stiffer sentences. We can do this but we need to have smarter laws and we need to enforce the laws we have (which many cities don't do). Plus we have to fix cultural problems such as bullying in schools, etc.

Sorry sir, but you are the not the only one who lives in a rough neighborhood....Try new Orleans! But, so as not to get off topic, you can not back up your claim of ten percent. And, you are right in one aspect that ANY death is too many. But, when I sit down to eat a bowl of beans, I do not eat one bean at a time. You wish to go after the very low percentage, and I wish to tackle the larger percentage.......fair enough, at least I know where your coming from and I respect that.

P.S. you didn't answer why if someone in my family has a mental issue, then I should some how have my rights to own a gun put in jeopardy.....

[PhantomOnTour]

So your argument is lets stop ONE crime and not go after the other HUNDREDS??? an you even present a valid argument as to how many crimes these background checks would stop in relation to the total number of gun crimes?
If anyone is obsessed with that ONE crime it's you Newt - and that ONE crime is Newtown. You keep mentioning,
"would it have stopped Newtown?"
"would it have stopped Newtown?"

others offer the idea that background checks may have stopped other incidents, but you continue to ask "would it have stopped Newtown?"

seems like you are ignoring the other HUNDREDS and focusing on Newtown Newtown Newtown

[newtothegame]

If anyone is obsessed with that ONE crime it's you Newt - and that ONE crime is Newtown. You keep mentioning,
"would it have stopped Newtown?"
"would it have stopped Newtown?"

others offer the idea that background checks may have stopped other incidents, but you continue to ask "would it have stopped Newtown?"

seems like you are ignoring the other HUNDREDS and focusing on Newtown Newtown Newtown

Could you please list the "hundreds" of gun killings by mentally ill people?
P.S. its your president who keeps Newtown on the fore front....I wasn't the one who had newtown parents and gabby giffords at a speech about gun control.....

[PhantomOnTour]

Could you please list the "hundreds" of gun killings by mentally ill people?
P.S. its your president who keeps Newtown on the fore front....I wasn't the one who had newtown parents and gabby giffords at a speech about gun control.....
Anyone who goes on a mass shooting spree is mentally ill in my book - so there's your list - pick any mass shooting in this country.

Obama is your president as well ya know - you just can't accept it.
Just like the rest of the bawlers on this site - most notably the guy playing picture games with Biden and some marionette....how grown up of him.

i noticed you mentioned Newtown again

[newtothegame]

Anyone who goes on a mass shooting spree is mentally ill in my book - so there's your list - pick any mass shooting in this country.

Obama is your president as well ya know - you just can't accept it.
Just like the rest of the bawlers on this site - most notably the guy playing picture games with Biden and some marionette....how grown up of him.

i noticed you mentioned Newtown again

So did your president.......
And like it or not, you cant answer the mentally ill question because the truth of the matter is mentally ill related gun violence is a very small percentage of the actual gun violence.
Now I know you can dig up some numbers phantom...come on show us all how many gun related killings happen due to mentally ill versus those that are not mentally ill......

[pandy]

Sorry sir, but you are the not the only one who lives in a rough neighborhood....Try new Orleans! But, so as not to get off topic, you can not back up your claim of ten percent. And, you are right in one aspect that ANY death is too many. But, when I sit down to eat a bowl of beans, I do not eat one bean at a time. You wish to go after the very low percentage, and I wish to tackle the larger percentage.......fair enough, at least I know where your coming from and I respect that.

P.S. you didn't answer why if someone in my family has a mental issue, then I should some how have my rights to own a gun put in jeopardy.....

If you want to buy a gun and someone in your family has a history of mental problems that could lead to violence, then I do think that at the very least there should be a law that requires you to have locks on your firearms or have them well hidden. I do think one could make a case that in some situations, for instance you have a son who was thrown out of school because of violent behavior, then you should not be allowed to own a gun with that boy in the house.

[PhantomOnTour]

Wouldn't you agree that the boys who murdered at Columbine and the Colorado theater shooter and yes, even the Newtown shooter, were mentally ill ?

do you think those folks were of sound mind?
yet you want a "list" from me...good Lord

[newtothegame]

Since none of you are willing to put up numbers, how's this.....from a left wing paper no less as I rarely read the NY SLIMES.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/health/a-misguided-focus-on-mental-illness-in-gun-control-debate.html?_r=0

[newtothegame]

Wouldn't you agree that the boys who murdered at Columbine and the Colorado theater shooter and yes, even the Newtown shooter, were mentally ill ?

do you think those folks were of sound mind?
yet you want a "list" from me...good Lord
Ok, I agree those were mentally challenged...but you said "hundreds" and you bring THREE????

So three percent of what your saying could be validated?? and now I am supposed to buy an argument that we should go after three percent? I will take it a step further and add the Gabby Gifford's shooting. If you would like, we an go back to Hinkley.....
The point is still the same that gun related violence, by those mentally ill, is very very small in relation to the violence as a whole. Yet, we need to go after the very very small aspect ????
Sorry, I think we would be better suited to go after the percentages in the high nineties verses the single digits......but that's just my thoughts!

[pandy]

Wouldn't you agree that the boys who murdered at Columbine and the Colorado theater shooter and yes, even the Newtown shooter, were mentally ill ?

do you think those folks were of sound mind?
yet you want a "list" from me...good Lord

They were definitely mentally ill.

[newtothegame]

Maybe we should go after alcohol........

"Alcohol and drug abuse (http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/specialtopic/drug-abuse/overview.html?inline=nyt-classifier) are far more likely to result in violent behavior than mental illness by itself. In the National Institute of Mental Health’s E.C.A. study, for example, people with no mental disorder who abused alcohol or drugs were nearly seven times as likely as those without substance abuse to commit violent acts."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/health/a-misguided-focus-on-mental-illness-in-gun-control-debate.html?_r=0

[PhantomOnTour]

Ok, I agree those were mentally challenged...but you said "hundreds" and you bring THREE????

So three percent of what your saying could be validated?? and now I am supposed to buy an argument that we should go after three percent? I will take it a step further and add the Gabby Gifford's shooting. If you would like, we an go back to Hinkley.....
The point is still the same that gun related violence, by those mentally ill, is very very small in relation to the violence as a whole. Yet, we need to go after the very very small aspect ????
Sorry, I think we would be better suited to go after the percentages in the high nineties verses the single digits......but that's just my thoughts!
only three people were killed in those incidents i brought up?
you asked me to list the hundreds of killings (a silly request to begin with) and now you're asking for hundreds of killing incidents.
So, it's not the number of people who were collectively killed in those aforementioned atrocities, it's the number of atrocities i have to list for you now?
i need to list for you hundreds of different times when someone went berserk and killed people?
the collective dead from those three i picked out off the top of my head is probably near 100

[pandy]

Maybe we should go after alcohol........

"Alcohol and drug abuse (http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/specialtopic/drug-abuse/overview.html?inline=nyt-classifier) are far more likely to result in violent behavior than mental illness by itself. In the National Institute of Mental Health’s E.C.A. study, for example, people with no mental disorder who abused alcohol or drugs were nearly seven times as likely as those without substance abuse to commit violent acts."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/health/a-misguided-focus-on-mental-illness-in-gun-control-debate.html?_r=0

If someone has a history of alcohol or drug abuse, such as arrests and convictions, do you think they should be allowed to own a gun? I don't.

[newtothegame]

only three people were killed in those incidents i brought up?
you asked me to list the hundreds of killings (a silly request to begin with) and now you're asking for hundreds of killing incidents.
So, it's not the number of people who were collectively killed in those aforementioned atrocities, it's the number of atrocities i have to list for you now?
i need to list for you hundreds of different times when someone went berserk and killed people?
the collective dead from those three i picked out off the top of my head is probably near 100
Ok, even though that is not what I said.....and you mentioned the "hundreds" argument, now cant back it up. Now your argument is the number of dead...ok lets go that way.....
Since 2001-2010, there have been 120,000 gun related homicides.......How significant is your 100 now??? looks like less then 1 percent to me....but that's what you wish to tackle??
Listen Phantom, I don't like to see anyone die. But, at the same time I wish to get the biggest bang for my buck for lack of better cliché's.
Its no different then in horse racing.....you bet to win and exotics to maximize payoff. Otherwise, you will be a lonely show better.
Lets go after gun violence in earnest versus trying to pander to a political party which is exactly what this supposed law would do. It is meaningless in the larger picture in the fight to control gun related deaths.

[newtothegame]

If someone has a history of alcohol or drug abuse, such as arrests and convictions, do you think they should be allowed to own a gun? I don't.
Well if mental illness is on the discussion for background checks in order to own a gun, then why wouldn't drugs and alcohol be on the same thing? I mean after all, there are studies which I have provided that show alcohol and drug users have a much higher rate to act out violently versus someone with a mental illness......

[PhantomOnTour]

Ok, even though that is not what I said.....and you mentioned the "hundreds" argument, now cant back it up. Now your argument is the number of dead...ok lets go that way.....
Since 2001-2010, there have been 120,000 gun related homicides.......How significant is your 100 now??? looks like less then 1 percent to me....but that's what you wish to tackle??
Listen Phantom, I don't like to see anyone die. But, at the same time I wish to get the biggest bang for my buck for lack of better cliché's.
Its no different then in horse racing.....you bet to win and exotics to maximize payoff. Otherwise, you will be a lonely show better.
Lets go after gun violence in earnest versus trying to pander to a political party which is exactly what this supposed law would do. It is meaningless in the larger picture in the fight to control gun related deaths.
See post #6 - YOU are the guy who mentioned "hundreds"...not me.
I responded to YOUR argument about hundreds, right?

you grew up in a tough neighborhood in NOLA?

[Robert Goren]

Well if mental illness is on the discussion for background checks in order to own a gun, then why wouldn't drugs and alcohol be on the same thing? I mean after all, there are studies which I have provided that show alcohol and drug users have a much higher rate to act out violently versus someone with a mental illness......I will join you in supporting background checks for drug and alcohol abuse in order to own a gun.

[newtothegame]

See post #6 - YOU are the guy who mentioned "hundreds"...not me.
I responded to YOUR argument about hundreds, right?

you grew up in a tough neighborhood in NOLA?

The hundreds I referred to was the non mentally ill killings, you brought it back as the hundreds or mentally ill killings (or I misread).

And yes I grew up in a rather rougher area of Nola....so? I mentioned that as Pandy brought up the fact about growing up in a rough neighborhood. That really has nothing to do with the conversation because a lot of people have seen crime first hand and a lot of us want it stopped. Only thing I ask is to go about it in a sensible manner........

[newtothegame]

I will join you in supporting background checks for drug and alcohol abuse in order to own a gun.
Ok now who is to determine what "abuse" is? Would you say its safe to say that anyone who has gotten drunk should not be allowed to own a gun? I mean after all, while they are drunk they could go out and shoot someone....
And, they are seven times more likely then a mentally ill person to commit violence......right?

[PhantomOnTour]

I asked about NOLA because i lived there for awhile (Hog Alley, not far from Radosta's Po Boys in Old Metry, braaaa)- just curious, that's all.

[newtothegame]

I asked about NOLA because i lived there for awhile (Hog Alley, not far from Radosta's Po Boys in Old Metry, braaaa)- just curious, that's all.
I grew up on chef hwy in the east. Out near the orbit bowling alley...

[newtothegame]

Now I live in da parish !!! Lol

[Ocala Mike]

I keep reading on this website how dead the Republican party is...how they aren't inclusive and will never win another election because they don't relate to minorities (who are quickly catching up to majority status).

And yet, these same "impotent" Republicans can block legislation as we saw today, even in the SENATE where they aren't the majority!!!! :lol:

Keep telling me how powerless Republicans are...



The vote revealed more about the power of lobbyists and the filibuster rule to block legislation than any one party.

[PaceAdvantage]

This is not how I thought this thread would go at all...lol

This is simply an extension of that existing thread on guns. I was hoping there would be more talk about Biden's ridiculous sour puss.... :lol:

[ArlJim78]

that display yesterday with Obama and Biden was a disgrace. Biden in tears and Obama having a hissy fit. he was FAR more upset about the gun vote than he was a day earlier talking about the marathon bombing.

[Tom]

Sour puss????

I thought he was mooning us! :D

Seriously, I would support background checks, just like I support cameras in public venues - I have no reason to expect privacy when I am downtown.

But there are millions of guns out there. How do we makes sure THEY get sold legally? If crook A sells crook B an illegal gun, you have no protection. Controlling and regulating law-abiding citizens is NOT the way to go. The root cause of this problem lies in people.

[RaceBookJoe]

that display yesterday with Obama and Biden was a disgrace. Biden in tears and Obama having a hissy fit. he was FAR more upset about the gun vote than he was a day earlier talking about the marathon bombing.

And still no mention of the 100k+ annual deaths due to FDA-approved drugs ( where are the background checks on them ), or the way they snuck in that GMO bill in that has potential to kill more than guns will.

[NJ Stinks]

I keep reading on this website how dead the Republican party is...how they aren't inclusive and will never win another election because they don't relate to minorities (who are quickly catching up to majority status).

And yet, these same "impotent" Republicans can block legislation as we saw today, even in the SENATE where they aren't the majority!!!! :lol:

Keep telling me how powerless Republicans are...

Now, on a related but completely different subject...(think about that for a while)...



As long as it takes 60 votes in the Senate, Republicans can block legislation in that chamber. Surely a sharp conservative like you can grasp the math. Republicans aren't powerless but the GOP is not exactly a hot commodity either.

As for the Biden pix, I think you have presented one of the most enlightened attacks on the Administration seen here in Off Topic - General in a very long time.

[mostpost]

As long as it takes 60 votes in the Senate, Republicans can block legislation in that chamber. Surely a sharp conservative like you can grasp the math. Republicans aren't powerless but the GOP is not exactly a hot commodity either.

As for the Biden pix, I think you have presented one of the most enlightened attacks on the Administration seen here in Off Topic - General in a very long time.
You forgot the :rolleyes: icon.
On the other hand, considering the other attacks on the Administration.....

[NJ Stinks]

You forgot the :rolleyes: icon.
On the other hand, considering the other attacks on the Administration.....

I did consider the other attacks first. :cool:

[Tom]

I particularly liked his whine last night about how some people lied about the bill. Hey, talk about yer pot calling the kettle black - he has lied about everything so far.

Hey Odummie, yer chickens have come home to roost! :lol::lol::lol::lol:

[so.cal.fan]

ArlJim writes:
"FAR more upset about the gun vote than he was a day earlier talking about the marathon bombing".

I'm not so sure, Jim, I think they were upset about both issues, the bombing has gone bad for some of the Obama media.....reporters.......the Saudi deportation issue and his connections, Obama meeting with the Saudi Ambassador yesterday.......there is more to this. The reaction was way over the top to the gun issue, they had to know there was a strong chance they wouldn't get the Senate to pass...wanted to blame the Rep Congress....still....there is some connection with this bombing. It's just a hunch on my part, so we shall see.

[Tom]

Something smells fishy about this Sorry-Arabian guy.
Royal family member did the deed?
Would not surprise me in the least.
The Saudis are NOT our friends and are NOT to be trusted.

[fast4522]

This is not how I thought this thread would go at all...lol

This is simply an extension of that existing thread on guns. I was hoping there would be more talk about Biden's ridiculous sour puss.... :lol:

Poor plugs Biden, uncle Teddy is watching from above. The truth is what they are really after is a national gun registration, and they have to put some components into feel good bills in order to spoof the public. Let the lines be drawn into the sand for the upcoming fight.

[elysiantraveller]

2 cents on the issue.

First, back in the late 90's the NRA supported and even campaigned for background checks. The problem with background checks as they now stand is they simply aren't enforced... that's a real problem with demanding more.

Second, the media does the public a serious disservice with the "gun show loophole." Almost every booth at a gun-show is occupied but an FFL carrier, especially if they are selling guns, and all those sales by the requirements of the FFL have to go through a background check. Gun shows are made out by the media to be the "place" illegal firearms sales take place... they aren't.

Third, if you truly want more background checks look at enforcing the laws on the books first but you can't prevent private party sales, the real issue, without a national gun registry... good luck with that.

That makes 3 but oh well...

[JustRalph]

Poor plugs Biden, uncle Teddy is watching from above. The truth is what they are really after is a national gun registration, and they have to put some components into feel good bills in order to spoof the public. Let the lines be drawn into the sand for the upcoming fight.

Bravo! Fast......

Newtothegame, great points.

[elysiantraveller]

A national gun registration is not happening....

Not now... or soon...

Look at California's inability to pull it off. Enough said...

Plus, most American's would willingly ignore it.

[fast4522]

You do not think Fast4522 was from horse fractions did you?

[nijinski]

2 cents on the issue.

First, back in the late 90's the NRA supported and even campaigned for background checks. The problem with background checks as they now stand is they simply aren't enforced... that's a real problem with demanding more.

Second, the media does the public a serious disservice with the "gun show loophole." Almost every booth at a gun-show is occupied but an FFL carrier, especially if they are selling guns, and all those sales by the requirements of the FFL have to go through a background check. Gun shows are made out by the media to be the "place" illegal firearms sales take place... they aren't.

Third, if you truly want more background checks look at enforcing the laws on the books first but you can't prevent private party sales, the real issue, without a national gun registry... good luck with that.

That makes 3 but oh well...

All of this needs to be addressed and enforced .Having just watched the unstable home in CT and the types and amounts of ammo found in the
shooters property , it's not something to be taken lightly .

[elysiantraveller]

All of this needs to be addressed and enforced .Having just watched the unstable home in CT and the types and amounts of ammo found in the
shooters property , it's not something to be taken lightly .

I agree with the first part but the second... how many rounds of ammo do you think I have?... both me and my fiance shoot competitively.

[nijinski]

I agree with the first part but the second... how many rounds of ammo do you think I have?... both me and my fiance shoot competitively.

I was talking about the situation in CT , an extremely dangerous situation .

[Dahoss2002]

I'm a numbers guy. Last year over 9,000 people were murdered by guns in this country. If better background checks cut these gun crimes down by 10%, that's over 900 lives saved. Then you work on other things that will help, but you have to start somewhere and you have to be smart. Having gun shows that have NO background checks is stupid.


You may be slightly misinformed about gun shows not having background checks. If you buy from a dealer at a gunshow, you will fill out a 4473. You may buy from an individual at a gunshow without paperwork just like you can buy from your next door neighbor without paperwork. That is why it didn't need to pass. If I want to give my father's shotgun to my grandson, I dont want to have to go to an FLL dealer and pay to fill out a 4473. I'm against any new law that penalizes law abiding citizens. Do you really think a felon can buy a gun legally now? Would this crap legislation stop him?

[Tom]

I am obliged to point out that we need to ban back packs and pressure cookers.

[HUSKER55]

in another thread someone found out that the American hammer kills more people than guns. Boston proves you don't need guns and there is no way in hell the school tragedy could have been averted, gun check or no.

I am not sold that stricter gun laws could have prevent the mess in Colorado.

about 40 years ago I was working in a sporting goods store. The gun reports were filled out in the "yellow forms". Guy turns to his buddy and says fill this out for me. He does and the owner takes his money and life moved on.

If a gun checked had been done the person who filled out the form would have been checked and not the end user. The owner told me to mind my own business.

Do you REALLY think things have changed?


neither do I. The gun crap is smoke for another agenda....at best.

[ArlJim78]

I predict record gun sales tomorrow in Boston.

[JustRalph]

The school shooting could have been prevented with positive entry control .

They didn't think they needed it.


All of these guys have shown no guts, they picked soft targets and when confronted stuck a gun to their own heads or gave up.

Good Security is underrated.

[JustRalph]

I predict record gun sales tomorrow in Boston.

Charlie just tweeted this

[Robert Goren]

The school shooting could have been prevented with positive entry control .

They didn't think they needed it.


All of these guys have shown no guts, they picked soft targets and when confronted stuck a gun to their own heads or gave up.

Good Security is underrated.I noticed you "bolded" the word "good". Good Security costs money. Many times companies and government agencies opt for token security. I ran parking garage which had a lot of drunks parking there. I had off duty police officers there. I had to battle my bosses all the time to keep them. They wanted to hire our own security people for a couple bucks more than minimum wage or rental cops. I think we all know how that would have ended up.
You are right. The school shooting could have been prevented with GOOD security, but a minimum wage 70 year old guard probably would not prevented it. I think probably that what we would get after some time passes.

[fast4522]

The best school security is to have a LEO here and there near the schools, it is enough to keep cowards away and car speeds down where they should be. Robert, your better off talking about something you might know, like poker.

[Tom]

We have learned two things this week:

1. there is no good argument for NOT having guns in the home
2. there is no good argument for increasing immigration

[Robert Goren]

The best school security is to have a LEO here and there near the schools, it is enough to keep cowards away and car speeds down where they should be. Robert, your better off talking about something you might know, like poker.Have you sat in budget meetings and had to beg for money for good security instead of token security. I did it for 7 years. It came up every year and it was a dog fight every year. If you think a police car cruising around from school to school when they don't have something better to do is going stop a mad man, you are as nuts as they are? I don't think you can scare an insane person. You have to be able to deal with him when shows up. What your cruising police car will do is make the vandals more careful in their timing.

[Robert Goren]

We have learned two things this week:

1. there is no good argument for NOT having guns in the home
2. there is no good argument for increasing immigration1. There is a very argument for not having guns in the home with small childern.
2. There is a very good argument for being a lot more careful in who we let enter the country.

[dartman51]

I'm a numbers guy. Last year over 9,000 people were murdered by guns in this country. If better background checks cut these gun crimes down by 10%, that's over 900 lives saved. Then you work on other things that will help, but you have to start somewhere and you have to be smart. Having gun shows that have NO background checks is stupid.

I know saving 900 lives may not seem like much but believe me, to the families who suffer when their loved one is murdered by a gun shot, it is.

Personally I think that a lot of people don't understand how crime hurts our society because they grew up or live in an area with low crime. As a kid I grew up in East New York, a rough area. Fortunately we moved to Long Island when I was 10 but I got mugged there anyway, knife in my ribs.

But I saw first hand in Brooklyn how crime affected our lives and the lives of our neighbors, it made me realize how important it is to confront these problems aggressively. Stricter background checks are a step in the right direction. We should also have much stiffer penalties for selling guns illegally, and all crimes with guns, including armed robbery,should carry stiffer sentences. We can do this but we need to have smarter laws and we need to enforce the laws we have (which many cities don't do). Plus we have to fix cultural problems such as bullying in schools, etc.


With all due respect, Pandy, if you think BETTER background checks will cut murders with guns, by 10%, you're living in a fantasy world. You are on to something with the CULTURAL problems, I believe THAT is the root of most of the issues that we have. :ThmbUp:

[boxcar]

I am obliged to point out that we need to ban back packs and pressure cookers.

:lol: :lol: And explosives! Oh wait, they're already regulated very heavily aren't they? :eek: :eek:

Boxcar

[elysiantraveller]

I was talking about the situation in CT , an extremely dangerous situation .

Just to save the dead mother a bit...

And I'm not saying I agree with what she did but...

I have a cousin who is severely autistic and if you understand autism at all you would know its an incredible burden on the parents. You spend years searching for something you can do to "relate" to your child. Maybe with them it was shooting... now again I'm not saying I agree with it... but if that was the case. Shooting is the one time you saw your kid smile with you... I'm not sure I can hammer her for wanting to spend time with her son when he was at his best.

I know it wasn't the smart choice... but the woman died with her son shooting her multiple times in the head... I simply can't bury her like most can....