How do you guys try to bail out when betting horses

[wiffleball whizz]

I don't mean to bombard these forums with new threads but I'm happy to finally be posting here and getting info from great horse players like you guys....

When it's getting late at night and your buried and there's 2 races left how do you guys attack the pools to try and get even....not like your at casino and want to bet 350 on a bj hand or a dice play

In horses maybe u can bet 350 but what of that horse is 2/5 and doing that doesn't get you out.....maybe you want to bet a tri but what u like won't pay anything.....

Being stuck at the track late is a bad thing....poker u can go on a rush but horses you simply run out of time...

Now I realise alot of people here go about things like life is one long horse session and they "can just wait for tnrw" racing tough to get out of hole when buried!!!!

Any systems am I missing? And usually waiting for tnrw or tnrw is another day isnt the answer I'm looking for ;)

[Stillriledup]

Most of the guys who post here are serious about their handicapping and betting and arent action junkies who have to 'get out' with 2 races left. Its not the mindset that many of the experts who post here have, at least not from what i've seen.

I know you're not interested in hearing that there is always tomorrow, but i'm not sure what other possible mindset you can have or would want to have.

I think the key for you might not be to worry about how to 'get out' its to figure out why you're getting 'buried' in the first place.

[tbwinner]

Any systems am I missing?

Systems in that case will drive you beyond broke in this game.

[BlueChip@DRF]

Each losing day is one's own personal cost of doing business, that's all.

[Some_One]

no such thing as bailing out, chalk it up to variance and do a review to ensure your decisions were the best possible.

[lamboguy]

everyone knows that when you chase you are a goner. but most people don't practice what they know.

the last race of the day at a racetrack is or was the get-out race. this is when emotions can run high and careful analysis can run very low. back in the 90's i used to only play the last race of the day without handicapping as long as the prior races did not produce that many favorites. i used to play the outside 4 horses in the last race at NYRA just about every single day they were open. i would start by playing 1 unit 3 days in a row win or lose, if i lost all three i would double up. if i lost those 3 i would wind up playing 3 units until i won up to 3 times, if i happened to have lost those 3 plays i would go to 5 units up to 3 more times. the 2 rules that kept me from betting the last race was that the race had to have at least 10 horses in it and it can't be an off-the -turf race. i hardly ever got that far in the 6 years that i played that system. there were plenty of times that i hit trifecta's that paid $4000 for $1. my original cost was $24 for the trifecta, and $36 for a $3 exacta box. i stopped playing them when i saw the payoffs go down dramatically and knew that i could no longer win with this system. there may be systems that can win today with strictly mathematical propositions, but i don't know any of them or anyone who claims to win with them.

[badcompany]

There's essentially three options:

1. Accept that it's not your day.

2. Increase your bet size enough so that you can get out a winner if you hit.

3. Play some crazy longshot number, and hope you get very lucky.

[wiffleball whizz]

Great answers guys......I really respect how many of you just shut it down and accept the loss or sit there and analyze why you lost....

I always thought I was a sharp horse bettor and by sharp I mean not betting huge overlays where a horse is dead on the board follow pick 3 and pick4 payouts and a few other things......

But then I come here and have hawked at cj dad graphs and they just blow me away or hear other ways people bet on hear and I just sit there and say to myself I'm the dumbest person betting into these pools....

With these new formulas and computer systems the avg player like me doesn't have a shot and I'm 31 And always youngest person in the room!!!

Good luck guys and thanks for the input.....and like in poker variance is key in horses

[BlueChip@DRF]

And always collect the PPs of the races where a bomb hits. You never know where that small 'detail' might come up again.

[usedtolovetvg]

Any serious gambler does not look at his win/loss record on a day to day basis. I work on a quarterly (3 month basis) and only then as a guide line for the year. If after the course of each quarter I am down, I'll make some readjustments or take a break. Some days you'll win, some days you'll lose. If you believe in what it is you are doing, and it works, you'll be ok. If you are a race track irregular, find a decent price in the last and fire away and hope for the best. Remember though, the best time to bet a fave is the last because so many players are, like you, trying to get even and the fave is often overlayed.

[Robert Goren]

My experence tells me that favorites in the last race are under bet in most pools, at least at small tracks. Whether they are under bet enough to profitable is another story. There is a lot searching for that get even longshot going on. At larger track, it does appear to happen so much. I suspect it has to do with whale action.

[DJofSD]

Bailing out or getting even is not any different than pressing your good fortune when you are ahead then start betting races you shouldn't. Make a plan then execute it.

Being able to separate out what you do for the races into two different steps isn't any different than playing golf. In golf, you decide what your going to do before you address the ball. You commit to your shot with the club you've selected and execute it. You don't start rethinking it while you're standing over the ball.

For me, I handicap the races I have selected and ignore the rest. No action bets. If I'm ahead after the days wagers, great. If not, review, find the mistakes then move on. If you don't have the discipline to make a plan then execute the plan, you'll be chasing your tail and losing money, plus, you'll never understand where things went wrong.

[wiffleball whizz]

Cant believe It never dawned on me that the favorite is underbet in the last race that theory makes so much sense...

In the past 12 hours since posting I never realized how dull I am in regards to this game.....

[SandyLoam]

As 'tvg said, you can't look at it in the context of a single day -- after the day is done. But within the day: I was taking a beating Saturday but stuck in there and ended up profitable. There is a cost of business and you have to stay with it. I've also gravitated toward playing the bigger and better races at the bigger tracks. Smaller races at lesser tracks tend to be a matter of which horse happens to feel a little bit better that day. How do you handicap that? That's why I like Saratoga and Keeneland so much. Oaklawn seems very chalky and around here, Arlington and Hawthorne are not very good.

[pondman]

If you don't see it (the single) at the beginning of the day...forget it...go home!

Pick a specialty and study it till exhaustion, stay with it, until you are the master of that one type of race. Stay home until you can make money. It might come around once a day, or once week. And then load up.

[thaskalos]

I don't mean to bombard these forums with new threads but I'm happy to finally be posting here and getting info from great horse players like you guys....

When it's getting late at night and your buried and there's 2 races left how do you guys attack the pools to try and get even....not like your at casino and want to bet 350 on a bj hand or a dice play

In horses maybe u can bet 350 but what of that horse is 2/5 and doing that doesn't get you out.....maybe you want to bet a tri but what u like won't pay anything.....

Being stuck at the track late is a bad thing....poker u can go on a rush but horses you simply run out of time...

Now I realise alot of people here go about things like life is one long horse session and they "can just wait for tnrw" racing tough to get out of hole when buried!!!!

Any systems am I missing? And usually waiting for tnrw or tnrw is another day isnt the answer I'm looking for ;)

When I was a little boy, my father would tell me that my "real" friends would sometimes make me cry...whereas my "fake" friends would endeavor to always keep me laughing.

I know what you want to hear in this thread, but how can I oblige...knowing what I know?

There are ironclad rules in gambling...and these rules have been born from the deep anguish of countless victims. And at the very top of the list...this is what we find:

Rule #1...Never bet with scared money.

Rule #2...Never chase your losses.

Seasoned gamblers nod their heads in agreement when they see these rules...but the less mature players do not give these rules the reverence that they deserve. After all...most of us have played with scared money at one time or another, and sometimes we have WON. And we've also tripled-up on our horse in the last race...and managed to turn a miserable defeat into a satisfying victory.

And there lies the problem...

You play the wrong way and win...and it now becomes reinforced in your mind that you can rely on this type of faulty strategy again...at a time of need somewhere down the line. But the next time, it will not work out so well.

Count on it.

[Not4Love]

Don't think I ever used any "systems". Maybe some type of graphs along the way. But in my 30+ years of playing I have developed "angles" that work for me. Approach that "get out" race the same way. If the you don't see the angles that work for you in that race, you just "get out" and Waite for tomorrow. They will have 9 more the next day. GL

[jerry-g]

Going into any business, you have to have a business plan or
lenders will not give you a loan. Without a plan you are in a
boat that may be heading for a whirlpool or jumping without
a chute.
The purpose of the plan is IMO, to protect your ass ets. You
have to know in advance how you will handle losses. Some
people have a higher tolerance for loss than others. Know
what you can withstand before you push your money through
the window.
Money management is foremost a necessity for longer term
profits. There are many ways to manage money from very highly
sophisticated ones to more simple. I like the simpler approach
that does not allow flat betting per say but uses a % of your
bankroll. In that way you are betting less when you are on a
loosing streak and more when you get a better wining streak.
So for the guy that said he bets $2000 on a race, I would think
it would mean he has a bankroll of $20,000.
I have read that loosing streaks last on average 8-10 days. So
If you are flat betting $10 with $100 bankroll, then in 10 days you
are finished. Betting a 10% amount will allow you to stay in the
game longer and get back into the green again when the loosing
streak is over.
Consistency and record keeping are also vitally important. If you
aren't consistent then no matter how much you keep records
they will not be accurate. The records will help you in the longer
run to see if you need to tweek your handicapping skills or change
your approach completely. If you change, you have to start all
over in your record keeping.
I think most will agree with me on this but if not I will stand corrected.

[wiffleball whizz]

Scared money is a great recipe to go broke....

In my life I'm a winner with scared money about 16.3 percent of the time Hahahahaha

[davew]

Why do you need to 'bail out' today, when there are hundreds of races during the next week. You should just go home early and look and see if you can change your method / ideas so you never get so deep.

Are you a bridge jumper who took an unauthorized loan from your employer that needs replaced early tomorrow morning before money noticed missing?

[VeryOldMan]

There are ironclad rules in gambling...and these rules have been born from the deep anguish of countless victims. And at the very top of the list...this is what we find:

Rule #1...Never bet with scared money.

Rule #2...Never chase your losses.



OP - print thaskalos' advice out and put it in the wallet you take to the track.

[MightBeSosa]

Really though, with so much $ from simulcasting, is the 'last race' really all that relevant anymore.

[Valuist]

I don't mean to bombard these forums with new threads but I'm happy to finally be posting here and getting info from great horse players like you guys....

When it's getting late at night and your buried and there's 2 races left how do you guys attack the pools to try and get even....not like your at casino and want to bet 350 on a bj hand or a dice play

In horses maybe u can bet 350 but what of that horse is 2/5 and doing that doesn't get you out.....maybe you want to bet a tri but what u like won't pay anything.....

Being stuck at the track late is a bad thing....poker u can go on a rush but horses you simply run out of time...

Now I realise alot of people here go about things like life is one long horse session and they "can just wait for tnrw" racing tough to get out of hole when buried!!!!

Any systems am I missing? And usually waiting for tnrw or tnrw is another day isnt the answer I'm looking for ;)

You need to take a longer term approach, and not focus on the day to day. Never, ever chase losses. If you are down but you still have a strong opinion, its ok to bet then, but somedays we have to accept the fact we aren't gonna win.

Professional sports bettors are right no more than 55-56% of the time. Professional card counters will have plenty of losing sessions of blackjack.
Same thing with the best of horse bettors.

[Stillriledup]

When I was a little boy, my father would tell me that my "real" friends would sometimes make me cry...whereas my "fake" friends would endeavor to always keep me laughing.

I know what you want to hear in this thread, but how can I oblige...knowing what I know?

There are ironclad rules in gambling...and these rules have been born from the deep anguish of countless victims. And at the very top of the list...this is what we find:

Rule #1...Never bet with scared money.

Rule #2...Never chase your losses.

Seasoned gamblers nod their heads in agreement when they see these rules...but the less mature players do not give these rules the reverence that they deserve. After all...most of us have played with scared money at one time or another, and sometimes we have WON. And we've also tripled-up on our horse in the last race...and managed to turn a miserable defeat into a satisfying victory.

And there lies the problem...

You play the wrong way and win...and it now becomes reinforced in your mind that you can rely on this type of faulty strategy again...at a time of need somewhere down the line. But the next time, it will not work out so well.

Count on it.

Great point about the scared money. Could you elaborate on the difference between scared money...and a bettor who has 'money to burn' because you could make the case that if a person is really 'cant afford to lose' he might be better than a guy who's just betting as if he doesnt care if he loses becuase he has a 'surplus' of cash from a recent nice hit, etc.

I think there's a happy medium between not betting scared money but at the same time, you want to be really smart and ACT as if you can't afford to lose bets, even if you have a little cushion to play with.

[v j stauffer]

MAX CHERRY

[thaskalos]

Great point about the scared money. Could you elaborate on the difference between scared money...and a bettor who has 'money to burn' because you could make the case that if a person is really 'cant afford to lose' he might be better than a guy who's just betting as if he doesnt care if he loses becuase he has a 'surplus' of cash from a recent nice hit, etc.

I think there's a happy medium between not betting scared money but at the same time, you want to be really smart and ACT as if you can't afford to lose bets, even if you have a little cushion to play with.

You need a gameplan when you gamble...and you need to stick to it.

IMO...the bettor who cannot afford to lose is NEVER in a better position than the one who "doesn't care if he loses".

I have heard expert poker players say that they love "walking on the edge"...or that they can't really play their best game "unless losing hurts"...but these heroics are best left to the very best players in the game. The rest of us mere mortals cannot withstand this sort of pressure and still play our best. I make 20-30 serious (for me at least) wagers every day. How could I possibly function rationally, if I attach particular significance to the outcome of any one race? What other choice do I have but to be as indifferent as I can be about my individual bets? Would I be able to do that if I "couldn't afford to lose"?

I understand the point that you are making, of course. The player who bets far beneath his bankroll is not likely to play his best game either. His smaller-than-normal bets might induce him to play much looser than he should. But this problem is a lot easier to solve than the problem of the player who is overbetting his bankroll...because he needs his losses to "sting" in order to play his best game.

I look at it like this:

Let's say that we are winning poker players, and we have an $8,000 bankroll earmarked exclusively for poker. We know that a bankroll of this size is best suited for the 10-20 limit holdem game...where it can withstand the variance that we expect to face there.

Alas...we can find no seat in this game one day, when we get to the casino...and we are forced to choose between a 5-10 game, and a 20-40 game.

In which game do you think we will be more comfortable? :)

[wiffleball whizz]

You need a gameplan when you gamble...and you need to stick to it.

IMO...the bettor who cannot afford to lose is NEVER in a better position than the one who "doesn't care if he loses".

I have heard expert poker players say that they love "walking on the edge"...or that they can't really play their best game "unless losing hurts"...but these heroics are best left to the very best players in the game. The rest of us mere mortals cannot withstand this sort of pressure and still play our best. I make 20-30 serious (for me at least) wagers every day. How could I possibly function rationally, if I attach particular significance to the outcome of any one race? What other choice do I have but to be as indifferent as I can be about my individual bets? Would I be able to do that if I "couldn't afford to lose"?

I understand the point that you are making, of course. The player who bets far beneath his bankroll is not likely to play his best game either. His smaller-than-normal bets might induce him to play much looser than he should. But this problem is a lot easier to solve than the problem of the player who is overbetting his bankroll...because he needs his losses to "sting" in order to play his best game.

I look at it like this:

Let's say that we are winning poker players, and we have an $8,000 bankroll earmarked exclusively for poker. We know that a bankroll of this size is best suited for the 10-20 limit holdem game...where it can withstand the variance that we expect to face there.

Alas...we can find no seat in this game when we get to the casino...and we are forced to choose between a 5-10 game, and a 20-40 game.

In which game do you think we will be most comfortable? :)

Exactly correct you cannot try to play poker with limited funds especially 10/20 or 20/40.....the difference between the 2 games is as big a gap between any 2 poker games....I work in a poker room and see this with my own eyes 10/20 is a tight game with older regs that's not really aggressive....20/40 is a non stop raise fest that people just keep firing away and u need 8000 to feel safe

I don't have the bankroll to where if I'm stuck a lot just wait for tmrw I basically only have 2 days to gamble so it's not like I can just pick it up tnrw....

98 times out of 100 I'm the clown at the poker table that's hawking the harness eye and trying to play cards without getting sidetracked by horses...

Thaskalos u seem like a sharp person you play cards and are u a limit player or no limit player? Seems like all the morons play no limit and u can pick them apart easier then trying to grind out a win in 10/20 or 20/40

[wiffleball whizz]

MAX CHERRY

Always like it when celebs post in my threads!!! Vic your one of the best I've ever heard calling races.....nothing better then when I got a horse sitting 4th off the pace and you say "you better watch out for" whatever the horses name is!!!

[thaskalos]

Exactly correct you cannot try to play poker with limited funds especially 10/20 or 20/40.....the difference between the 2 games is as big a gap between any 2 poker games....I work in a poker room and see this with my own eyes 10/20 is a tight game with older regs that's not really aggressive....20/40 is a non stop raise fest that people just keep firing away and u need 8000 to feel safe

I don't have the bankroll to where if I'm stuck a lot just wait for tmrw I basically only have 2 days to gamble so it's not like I can just pick it up tnrw....

98 times out of 100 I'm the clown at the poker table that's hawking the harness eye and trying to play cards without getting sidetracked by horses...

Thaskalos u seem like a sharp person you play cards and are u a limit player or no limit player? Seems like all the morons play no limit and u can pick them apart easier then trying to grind out a win in 10/20 or 20/40

I used to play limit...but have been playing no-limit exclusively for the last 2.5 years. It's more profitable, IMO...but you have to have the "stomach" for it.

[wiffleball whizz]

I work from midnight-8am and usually sleep from 10am-2pm then like 7pm-11 so I can't bet horses but 2 times a week...

I'm not trying to make a living betting races but I really don't like losing and leaving a loser either....

It's not like I can just go back and find a better spot tnrw once tuesday night is over its done for the week!!!!!

[appistappis]

at your age the great thing about handicapping is that you can learn new things even after 30 years in the game. It takes about two weeks to learn everything you need to know in a casino.

[wiffleball whizz]

I used to play limit...but have been playing no-limit exclusively for the last 2.5 years. It's more profitable, IMO...but you have to have the "stomach" for it.

Yes sometimes in 2/5 u gotta make some big decisions I try to stay away from big pots....where I work we have a 1/2nl that has 100-500 buyin And I see people betting 200 like its cotton candy...

In my opinion you put "less through the window" When playing no limit compared to limit....example in 20/40 you may call $80 preflop with QJ suited where as in no limit u won't call a cold $80 bet with that....

My father who I've been around him since I was 12 wit him playing poker would always play anywhere from $7.50-15 holdem up to 30/60 and 15/30/45/45 7 card stud and this has been going on for 15 years he now is starting to play no limit he sees there is less risk

So funny watching him call $120 cold with 78 suited preflop in 30/60 to now folding KQ suited where it's 3 bet in no limit from $12 to $45 hahahaha it's do funny watching him try to alternate his game!!!

I myself find myself missing a lot of value bets in no limit where I didn't miss to many in limit......all in all Im starting to like no limit more cuz of the idiot factor...(bad players calling off all thee stack with bad hands)....

[Stillriledup]

You need a gameplan when you gamble...and you need to stick to it.

IMO...the bettor who cannot afford to lose is NEVER in a better position than the one who "doesn't care if he loses".

I have heard expert poker players say that they love "walking on the edge"...or that they can't really play their best game "unless losing hurts"...but these heroics are best left to the very best players in the game. The rest of us mere mortals cannot withstand this sort of pressure and still play our best. I make 20-30 serious (for me at least) wagers every day. How could I possibly function rationally, if I attach particular significance to the outcome of any one race? What other choice do I have but to be as indifferent as I can be about my individual bets? Would I be able to do that if I "couldn't afford to lose"?

I understand the point that you are making, of course. The player who bets far beneath his bankroll is not likely to play his best game either. His smaller-than-normal bets might induce him to play much looser than he should. But this problem is a lot easier to solve than the problem of the player who is overbetting his bankroll...because he needs his losses to "sting" in order to play his best game.

I look at it like this:

Let's say that we are winning poker players, and we have an $8,000 bankroll earmarked exclusively for poker. We know that a bankroll of this size is best suited for the 10-20 limit holdem game...where it can withstand the variance that we expect to face there.

Alas...we can find no seat in this game one day, when we get to the casino...and we are forced to choose between a 5-10 game, and a 20-40 game.

In which game do you think we will be more comfortable? :)

I've found i'm far better as a bettor/player when i've lost a few days in a row than when i win a few days in a row. I feel that when i win, i get a smidge complacent and after a few losses and a bad week, i get much more focused. While i'm not betting with scared money per se, i'm betting with so much pain from the recent losses and "Red" Days that i just can't stomach losing another bet that isnt of the prime variety. Losing a few days in a row is a great panacea for skipping races and doing the right things, working harder, etc.

[Pensacola Pete]

...

When it's getting late at night and your buried and there's 2 races left how do you guys attack the pools to try and get even

If there's no play in the last two races, I go to bed and get even the next day, or week, or however long it takes.

The problem with trying to "get even" in the last races is that a lot of other guys are trying to do the same thing. So longshots get overbet. That drives people to the exotics and wild stabs.