North Korea

[Actor]

What we have here is a paranoid nuclear power lead by a kid in his 20s threatening to restart a war that ended 60 years ago, rapidly developing the capability to strike the U.S. with nukes. If that happens the U.S. and the U.N. will strike back at North Korea with nukes, then nuclear powers China and Russia strike. Bottom line, a full nuclear exchange that we have feared since 1945 started by a second rate country.

This kind of domino effect started World War One.

Why is the government not making this its number one priority? The budget, gun control, whatever, is pointless if we get nuked.

Why isn't this the number one news story in the world?

I'm really f**king scared.

[Dave Schwartz]

My guess would be that it is the #1 story in South Korea.

And probably #2, #3, #4, etc.

[elysiantraveller]

What we have here is a paranoid nuclear power lead by a kid in his 20s threatening to restart a war that ended 60 years ago, rapidly developing the capability to strike the U.S. with nukes. If that happens the U.S. and the U.N. will strike back at North Korea with nukes, then nuclear powers China and Russia strike. Bottom line, a full nuclear exchange that we have feared since 1945 started by a second rate country.

This kind of domino effect started World War One.

Why is the government not making this its number one priority? The budget, gun control, whatever, is pointless if we get nuked.

Why isn't this the number one news story in the world?

I'm really f**king scared.

Because nuking us doesn't give them the food or fuel from us they need to survive.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...

I'm really f**king scared.

I actually think what you present is possible, though unlikely, yet I really can't see any reason to be scared. If the possibility of personal tragedy by way of a North Korean inspired war is worth being scared over, then I'd never operate a motor vehicle on a public road.

[_______]

What we have here is a paranoid nuclear power lead by a kid in his 20s threatening to restart a war that ended 60 years ago, rapidly developing the capability to strike the U.S. with nukes. If that happens the U.S. and the U.N. will strike back at North Korea with nukes, then nuclear powers China and Russia strike. Bottom line, a full nuclear exchange that we have feared since 1945 started by a second rate country.

This kind of domino effect started World War One.

Why is the government not making this its number one priority? The budget, gun control, whatever, is pointless if we get nuked.

Why isn't this the number one news story in the world?

I'm really f**king scared.

You have to think of N. Korea as the internet bully constantly calling everyone out to meet him and he'll just show you. He's super tough. Don't dare f with him. Do you really think there's a lot there to be afraid of?

The real danger they pose is proliferation. And there haven't been enough fingers for that dike since the Khan network in Pakistan.

You should be scared but not because they're irrational and will do something they know will end them. And the idea that Russia or China would want to see the world end rather than a regime collapse in N. Korea mistakes how much they have become status quo powers.

As a side note, the UN doesn't have any nukes.

Don't relax. I still think it's more likely than not that I'll see nuke detonated in the U.S. before I die (and I'm relatively old) but it's far more likely to come from a non-state actor than a suicidal regime.

[Actor]

As a side note, the UN doesn't have any nukes.A technicality. The U.N. has members who do have nukes, including Russia and China.

This thing is as big or bigger than the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962 but this time everybody has their head stuck in the sand.

[PaceAdvantage]

This thing is as big or bigger than the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962 but this time everybody has their head stuck in the sand.If it were, a lot more people would be scared.

Does anyone really believe they have a missile capable of striking the US mainland? I don't...show me proof...maybe I's just plains ignorants...

[JustRalph]

Nice user name..........WTF?


I can't wait. I love dystopian post nuclear societies.

I am ready!!!

[Actor]

If it were, a lot more people would be scared.

Does anyone really believe they have a missile capable of striking the US mainland? I don't...show me proof...maybe I's just plains ignorants...
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57576264/n-korea-claims-long-range-missiles-aimed-at-bases-on-u.s-mainland-hawaii/

[Mike at A+]

Can we all just imagine the outrage in the liberal media and the administration had a white conservative entertainer like Ted Nugent gone to North Korea for a sit down with "Lil Kim" instead of a black liberal crossdresser like Dennis Rodman?

[Robert Fischer]

part of this is perspective, and semantics, and part of this is just humans behaving like violent idiots.

in february we teamed up with South Korea where we literally practiced teaming up and aiming nuclear weapons at North Korea.

but we don't call that "bellicose" behavior, or we don't even call it "aiming nuclear weapons", instead we call it a "routine training exercise" :D. Somewhat true, because we do this on a regular basis.

In addition, pretty much every nasa mission, nuclear test, etc. that we run has at least the dual purpose of practicing and improving our nuclear weapons program. We rarely stress this when we shoot up a rocket. Again the semantics used by the media is very selective.

When North Korea shoots up a rocket, we call them out(through the media) on the nuclear side of it. And when they perform a nuclear test, we use our power to hurt them economically through sanctions.

Today we just sent two B-2 stealth bombers to South Korea on a practice mission.

so basically we are all pointing nukes at each other, although the media doesn't exactly make this clear all the time.

That's just the semantics and the media part, but it doesn't explain the awful behavior, the use of violence and force etc... The rest is just humans behaving like violent idiots.

[hcap]

Can we all just imagine the outrage in the liberal media and the administration had a white conservative entertainer like Ted Nugent gone to North Korea for a sit down with "Lil Kim" instead of a black liberal crossdresser like Dennis Rodman?Great idea!

Ted Nugent is a "crossspeciesdresser"just like the little korean leader guy. Probably get along like two peas in a pod. :lol:

[Mike at A+]

.

[Tom]

Great idea!

Ted Nugent is a "crossspeciesdresser"just like the little korean leader guy. Probably get along like two peas in a pod.

That ship has sailed - Lil Kim thinks he was meeting with Obama - Roman is not allowed to tell him the truth.

After all, Rodman has more credibility than Obama ever did.

[Tom]

When North Korea shoots up a rocket, we call them out(through the media) on the nuclear side of it. And when they perform a nuclear test, we use our power to hurt them economically through sanctions.

That is because N Korea is a cruel dictatorship that oppresses it's people and threatens the world. N Korea has no rights and we have a right to call it out at every oppotunity. To even think N Korea is on a par with civilized countries is outrageous. We should be plotting to kill that stupid little bastard by any means. I mean lil Kim, not Rodman - who should be sitting in some jail cell for treason today.

THIS is the accomplishments of the lil kim family - there is no debate that to kill him would be a good thing. If we could take out his entire family, a better thing. You are looking at the butt hole of the Earth - and it was brought to you by this little POS and his family. That they live today is regretful.

[Greyfox]

A madman started WWII.
It's too bad that no one took out Hitler before he got rolling.
Ultimately, the West and Russia had to do it anyways.

History can repeat itself.

The temperature is rising.

[Tom]

So where are the drones?
Send in the drones.
There ought to be drones.

[elysiantraveller]

Here is how I see this shaking out:

The new Supreme leader has taken the sabre-rattling to a pretty high level. Every year when the US and ROK do their joint exercises this happens to some extent but he is young, under scrutiny, and taken it to a pretty high level; see missile and nuclear tests before the exercises. The problem with this kid is he is young and the junta propping him up may need more...

The rub is this...

The Kim's are a relatively "known" commodity to west and this kid surely doesn't want a war. The beneficial situation for everyone here is this kid remaining in power as well as the ROK's sovereignty/security remaining intact and US military superiority remaining unquestioned(it is).

If NK brass is as hardline as most think and pushing for a "stronger" message out of the young leader the issue becomes finding a way to have a transactional military confrontation that allows both sides to "win" while maintaining the status quo. Which is, quite frankly, more beneficial than any other scenario..

[Greyfox]

The Kim's are a relatively "known" commodity to west and this kid surely doesn't want a war...

This kid is nuts.
He grew up playing video games and watching James Bond movies.
When he came to power he fired several Generals.
He believes that he's a God and his place in the Sun is coming.
Don't underestimate this off the wall fruitcake. He's dangerous.

[elysiantraveller]

This kid is nuts.
He grew up playing video games and watching James Bond movies.
When he came to power he fired several Generals.
He believes that he's a God and his place in the Sun is coming.
Don't underestimate this off the wall fruitcake. He's dangerous.

I disagree, the same was said about Sun and Il. You don't maintain that type of grip on power for that long if you are "off the wall fruitcake."

[MPRanger]

What we have here is a paranoid nuclear power lead by a kid in his 20s threatening to restart a war that ended 60 years ago, rapidly developing the capability to strike the U.S. with nukes. If that happens the U.S. and the U.N. will strike back at North Korea with nukes, then nuclear powers China and Russia strike. Bottom line, a full nuclear exchange that we have feared since 1945 started by a second rate country.

This kind of domino effect started World War One.

Why is the government not making this its number one priority? The budget, gun control, whatever, is pointless if we get nuked.

Why isn't this the number one news story in the world?

I'm really f**king scared.



That frigging little midget ain't gonna start anything. He is just engaging
in ritualistic threats. It's a sick culture that he has to parade around like
a bold rooster crowing so his starving people will continue to fear him.

[johnhannibalsmith]

The only real fear that I have with this dingaling is that he's being used as the quintessential useful idiot by bigger fish.

Something tells me that we are viewed as vulnerable at the moment and that dragging us into these ridiculous conflicts every other month only weakens us further. And then, the bigger fish eventually show up from the shadows.

[JustRalph]

That frigging little midget ain't gonna start anything. He is just engaging
in ritualistic threats. It's a sick culture that he has to parade around like
a bold rooster crowing so his starving people will continue to fear him.

I completely agree. But why the hell are we moving so many assets around?

That bothers me

[elysiantraveller]

I completely agree. But why the hell are we moving so many assets around?

That bothers me

I don't think it's anything unusual these exercises happen almost annually. The shelling of Yeungpyeung, or whatever it's called, was in response to similar US/ROK maneuvers. It's not like we are putting an Iowa back on the naval registry.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I completely agree. But why the hell are we moving so many assets around?

That bothers me

I don't think it's anything unusual these exercises happen almost annually...


A U.S. defense official said the USS McCain, an Aegis-class guided-missile destroyer used for ballistic missile defense, was being positioned off the peninsula's southwestern coast.

"This is a prudent move that provides greater missile defense options should (they) become necessary," said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity. The ship was not expected to participate in any exercises, the official added.


http://news.yahoo.com/u-deploys-warship-off-south-korea-amid-soaring-013622157.html

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1CeiYcjBQ1A/T2fDseHNNnI/AAAAAAAAC4A/pn28GSDtTU8/s400/Shaggy%2B-%2BZoiks_Scooby%2BDoo%2Band%2BThe%2BGang.jpg

Hadn't read this story until just a few minutes ago... maybe this is nothing new, but having just read those posts an hour earlier...

[TJDave]

It's not like we are putting an Iowa back on the naval registry.

I understand that it's old technology, I know our dollars can be better spent, I get that...BUT DAMN :mad:

[elysiantraveller]

A U.S. defense official said the USS McCain, an Aegis-class guided-missile destroyer used for ballistic missile defense, was being positioned off the peninsula's southwestern coast.

"This is a prudent move that provides greater missile defense options should (they) become necessary," said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity. The ship was not expected to participate in any exercises, the official added.

The McCain is a Flight I Arleigh Burke, we are launching Flight III's right now, she is hardly a show-stopper of any kind. Yes, she has AEGIS but basically our entire surface warfare fleet has it at this point, not to mention its attached to the Seventh Fleet so its presence is hardly anything out of the ordinary.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130319104150-09-sk-training-horizontal-gallery.jpg

Hell... here is a photo of the McCain just a few days ago on CNN during the joint exercise... [link (http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/01/world/asia/koreas-tensions/index.html?iref=allsearch) ]

Just the media stirring the pot.

[elysiantraveller]

I understand that it's old technology, I know our dollars can be better spent, I get that...BUT DAMN :mad:

I'm bitter about it as well... :(

Truth of the matter though is the Iowa's would still be incredibly useful in a modern Korean conflict. It's one of the few remaining scenario's where those boats would play a major role... sailing up and down the peninsula, getting spotted for by drones, raining heavy metal death down upon NK artillery positions, taking some hits for sure, but laying a straight ass-whupping on anything within 25 miles of land... :cool:

World's fastest, heaviest hitting, best armored, and accurate artillery platform ever constructed... not to mention the greatest traditional battleship the world's ever seen... bar none...

The Zumwalt's won't be able to fill their shoes... I think the navy is holding out for the rail-gun boats we will start seeing in about 10-15 years.

[TJDave]

World's fastest, heaviest hitting, best armored, and accurate artillery platform ever constructed... not to mention the greatest traditional battleship the world's ever seen... bar none...


In WWII the Iowa protected carriers. Today, a lucky missle shot from any third-rate-asshole-of-a-country would sink her. That's probably why the navy and congress retired her...Why Reagan withdrew from Beirut...Why I get nauseous writing this.

[fast4522]

I completely agree. But why the hell are we moving so many assets around?

That bothers me

This country is not the only one that has buttons to push, China is pushing some buttons not
N Korea. Obviously the Obama administration's shit is weak and they are looking for a positive spin to wag the dog.

[elysiantraveller]

In WWII the Iowa protected carriers. Today, a lucky missle shot from any third-rate-asshole-of-a-country would sink her. That's probably why the navy and congress retired her...Why Reagan withdrew from Beirut...Why I get nauseous writing this.

I don't think there is an anti-ship missile out there that can bring those boats down in a single strike, a Soviet Shipwreck maybe but the odds of those getting through are slim... even the Stark was able to survive two Exocets on the nose.

Plus as long as she is being shadowed by an AEGIS she will have Block III protection and if they get beyond that she was outfitted with 4 Phalanx CIWS. When retired they were more than capable of defending themselves from a threat.

Either way... miss the old war-wagons.

[johnhannibalsmith]

This kid is a nut. How many buttons does he have left to push?


(Reuters) - North Korea on Wednesday closed access to a joint factory zone that earns $2 billion a year in trade for the impoverished state but will allow hundreds of South Koreans to return home, officials said, allaying fears they could have been held hostage.

Factories in the Kaesong Industrial Park were still believed to be operating, but North Korea's decision to block entry is a further sign of the growing tensions on the Korean peninsula. On Tuesday, Pyongyang said it would restart a mothballed nuclear reactor.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/03/us-korea-north-idUSBRE93002620130403

[newtothegame]

Well, we know one button he does NOT want to push. It would certainly mean his shit hole going from terrible to worse.

The one thing I am almost sure of though is if he were to do something really stupid, it would be a very measured response by the U.S.

We can not and do not want to have china or Russia somehow getting mixed messages and jumping in to help this little puke out!

[ManU918]

I don't know much about war as I never served so maybe someone here will know the answer to this question... Is there any chance that the US/South Korea strike first or are we (US/South Korea) going to wait around for lil kim to make the first tactical war move? From reading this thread, I know a lot of you think that lil kim will never make a move..... But how much of this shit is South Korea going to put up with before they want to respond?

I have a cousin in the Navy who is going out to sea in two weeks and "cant say where hes going" so I am a little concerned.

[Robert Goren]

A rooster doing his strutting thing, nothing more. The key is not force him into a position where he will have to do something drastic or be booted from power. Playing chicken with someone whose very life is on the line is never a good idea.

[HUSKER55]

time to teach that rooster to stay off the road. a good drive by will do the trick.

[Tom]

Fly a few drones overhead. Just to let him know who he is dealing with.
Oh, wait, they know it is Obama.....:rolleyes:

But, heaven help this little in-bred moron if he fires a missile and hits a Walmat.....China will eat his lunch. :eek:

[Greyfox]

Temperature Rising

China has a defense treaty pact with North Korea and has recently moved troops, tanks, and aircraft into place in one of their north eastern provinces.

This morning's news is:
China warns tensions must be 'defused' in deepening Korea crisis


China has intervened in the deepening Korea crisis by summoning the ambassadors of North and South Korea, as well as the United States, to warn tensions must be defused on the Korean peninsula.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/9968951/China-warns-tensions-must-be-defused-in-deepening-Korea-crisis.html

[Tom]

All they need do is kill the in-bred piss ant.
Problem solved.

[JustRalph]

All they need do is kill the in-bred piss ant.
Problem solved.

have you noticed his so called girlfriend has disappeared?

I figure she was fed to the hogs.............Deadwood Style

[fast4522]

All they need do is kill the in-bred piss ant.
Problem solved.

Somehow killing the in-bred piss ant does not seem like a solution. Besides we have a law that prevents us from going after a head of state. The whole drone thing will in the end come back to bite us in the ass sure as shit, short term we are getting some mileage out of the technology. In times like this I wish we had President Bush, say what you will about him and his administration but in my mind he had the very best team assembled for the dangerous world we live in.

[rastajenk]

Amen to that. He had people with real-life experiences, not a bunch of theoretical acadamics with personal agendas.

[Robert Fischer]

sometimes the following helps (and sometimes it doesn't ;) ) clear up the confusion.

1. disregard personal bias
2. disregard the media
3. look at the macro view
4. look at major economics (from the macro view)



Number one should be pretty much impossible(it eliminates me every time), but if you manage to accomplish all four, sometimes it's possible to gain insight into the driving forces.

[elysiantraveller]

I don't know much about war as I never served so maybe someone here will know the answer to this question... Is there any chance that the US/South Korea strike first or are we (US/South Korea) going to wait around for lil kim to make the first tactical war move?

Unfortunately, because of the geography, no we can't effectively launch a preemptive strike without suffering massive retaliation.

[Tom]

Somehow killing the in-bred piss ant does not seem like a solution. Besides we have a law that prevents us from going after a head of state. The whole drone thing will in the end come back to bite us in the ass sure as shit, short term we are getting some mileage out of the technology. In times like this I wish we had President Bush, say what you will about him and his administration but in my mind he had the very best team assembled for the dangerous world we live in.

I posted here, on the OLD board, back in 1999, that I was for Bush only becasue he would bring the best team to deal with foreign policy - operative word here was Cheney. Turns out I was right as rain on that one!

But I think as far as ofting the in-bred pig, screw the laws. No one who runs a country as black as N Korea is in the night-time satellite photo can be considered a head of state. A target, yes, a leader, :lol::lol::lol:

[elysiantraveller]

I don't know much about war as I never served so maybe someone here will know the answer to this question... Is there any chance that the US/South Korea strike first or are we (US/South Korea) going to wait around for lil kim to make the first tactical war move?

To add a bit more of an explanation to my previous response... here is the issue:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/rok/images/seoul-imagery-erdas-artillery.jpg

That's the range of current NK artillery and as you can see Seoul is well within that range. Seoul has a population of 10 million people and while we can engage that artillery almost immediately firing from hardened positions you are talking a battle that will wage for hours on end leaving massive civilian casualties.

Second is the DMZ:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Korea_DMZ.svg/681px-Korea_DMZ.svg.png

The DMZ contains the highest concentration of landmines in the world. They were laid by UN security forces and have been maintained since as a means of slowing down a North Korean invasion. Slowing down NK progress is important as the country probably has enough oil reserves to maintain a field army for about a month. Any invasion strategy hinges on them being able to make a made dash to Seoul and Pusan (the two bluewater ports) and getting there within that month to prevent Allied reinforcements a clear entry point and possibly ending the war outright. Ignoring the existence of other tunnels that are sure to exist most experts believe that NK artillery can blast their way through the DMZ minefields in anywhere from 15 minutes up to a couple of hours allowing them to storm across.

As an aside to TJDave:

The first photo shows why an Iowa would be useful in a Korean war scenario. As long as proper air support is supplied and there are a couple of AEGIS destroyers lurking further offshore the Iowa presents a dilemma to those artillery positions. Instead of firing into soft targets like Seoul they would either A) have to engage the Iowa or B) relocate further from the coast and out of the range of the city. The preferred scenario, of course, would be that they decide to stay and slug it out with the battleship because even the most hardened positions aren't going to last long against guns throwing shells the size of volkswagens on them but even if they decide to move the pieces it exposes them to our overwhelming air superiority.

BOOM!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/BB61_USS_Iowa_BB61_broadside_USN.jpg/300px-BB61_USS_Iowa_BB61_broadside_USN.jpg

Somebody is having a really bad day... :)

[ArlJim78]

I posted here, on the OLD board, back in 1999, that I was for Bush only becasue he would bring the best team to deal with foreign policy - operative word here was Cheney. Turns out I was right as rain on that one!

But I think as far as ofting the in-bred pig, screw the laws. No one who runs a country as black as N Korea is in the night-time satellite photo can be considered a head of state. A target, yes, a leader, :lol::lol::lol:
relax, we've got two of our top pro's, Kerry and Hagel, handling things now. What could go wrong?

[JustRalph]

relax, we've got two of our top pro's, Kerry and Hagel, handling things now. What could go wrong?

Two guys with great grades. :ThmbUp:

Both lower than GW

[johnhannibalsmith]

To add a bit more of an explanation to my previous response... :)

Cool post, appreciate the effort. I'm pretty clueless about various machines of war and whatnot other than the stuff you read about in ordinary context and have almost no real knowledge of the two Koreas other than one is north of the other. I like reading posts like yours and JustRalph's that offer some insight on such things. :ThmbUp:

[ArlJim78]

Two guys with great grades. :ThmbUp:

Both lower than GW
yeah but remember during his confirmation Hagel admitted he didn't know much about defense, but vowed to study up on it really quick once he got on the job. we're in the best of hands.

[Greyfox]

Temperature Rising

N. Korea approves nuclear strike on United States
By Jung Ha-Won (AFP)–1 hour ago

SEOUL — North Korea dramatically escalated its warlike rhetoric on Thursday, warning that it had authorised plans for nuclear strikes on targets in the United States.

"The moment of explosion is approaching fast," the North Korean military said, warning that war could break out "today or tomorrow".

Pyongyang's latest pronouncement came as Washington scrambled to reinforce its Pacific missile defences, preparing to send ground-based interceptors to Guam and dispatching two Aegis class destroyers to the region.

More at link:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gpuimXzka5inwGnL0c9vZsbQ54fw?docId=CNG.4eb43 e27607cb9d4be6b952b88ddefeb.01

[Robert Fischer]

war sure is big business.

will we hit $1 trillion in military spending this year ?

[TJDave]

The preferred scenario, of course, would be that they decide to stay and slug it out with the battleship because even the most hardened positions aren't going to last long against guns throwing shells the size of volkswagens on them


North Korea is estimated to have 10,000 artillery pieces just north of the dmz. Granted, most wouldn't have the capability to engage the IOWA but just how many is not known. IMO, I couldn't see closing range under those conditions.

The IOWA is a symbol of our power and prestige, not unlike the Bismark and Yamato.

[fast4522]

Well Tom this the big difference between us and them, we do not agree completely but are aligned with respect in terms of the 7 of 10 rule.
My caution with your Monkey law, not that its too far off is as follows,

I could give a rats ass to laws that the United nations establishes, but do give proper respect to the laws these United States makes. To do it for revenge instead of love of country just makes us another liar who's shit does stink.

[elysiantraveller]

North Korea is estimated to have 10,000 artillery pieces just north of the dmz. Granted, most wouldn't have the capability to engage the IOWA but just how many is not known. IMO, I couldn't see closing range under those conditions.

The IOWA is a symbol of our power and prestige, not unlike the Bismark and Yamato.

The Iowa's can engage targets at 30,000 yards using their own targeting system. With spotting those guns can engage targets at 40,000+ yards or 25 miles.

The US self-propelled 155mm is considered the "king" of heavy field pieces and they can only range around 15-16 miles without rocket-assist. Even if an Iowa were to sail within range of those pieces a 155mm shell is as much of a threat to those boats as fly to us.

I get they are antiquated and the idea of a boat sailing along a coast shelling positions is considered old school but Korea is probably the only place where the presence of one of those ships would be hugely beneficial. A new Korean War would have to be fought the "old school" way.

The Iowa is and always will be the king of the capital ships... unless of course they run across the Kirov...

Either way big boat action is always welcome conversation with me. :)

The Iowa's would have thrashed the Yamato or Bismarck.

[elysiantraveller]

Cool post, appreciate the effort. I'm pretty clueless about various machines of war and whatnot other than the stuff you read about in ordinary context and have almost no real knowledge of the two Koreas other than one is north of the other. I like reading posts like yours and JustRalph's that offer some insight on such things. :ThmbUp:

Well when people say stuff like "lets just get rid of him" or "lets bomb them back to the stone-age" its kinda important to know what all that entails. If the North decides to head south we will have our hands full... American's don't want 2-3 weeks of us getting our ass kicked on the news...

[johnhannibalsmith]

Well when people say stuff like "lets just get rid of him" or "lets bomb them back to the stone-age" its kinda important to know what all that entails. If the North decides to head south we will have our hands full... American's don't want 2-3 weeks of us getting our ass kicked on the news...

Yeah, I often read Yahoo! simply because their articles linked don't have all kinds of stupid pop-up ads and they have the comments at the bottom that are enjoyable too. They are just riddled with exactly that kind of bluster.

I know nothing, and even I realize that we may be superior militarily - but the dynamic there - with so many of our troops stationed where they are, and the fact that most North Koreans are basically just peasant pawns of a few loons makes those cries for destruction seem a little shallow. It's actually tough to find any sort of real reporting on the actual strategic pitfalls and possibilities should it escalate, so I like to read what you have to say on the subject. :ThmbUp:

[elysiantraveller]

Yeah, I often read Yahoo! simply because their articles linked don't have all kinds of stupid pop-up ads and they have the comments at the bottom that are enjoyable too. They are just riddled with exactly that kind of bluster.

I know nothing, and even I realize that we may be superior militarily - but the dynamic there - with so many of our troops stationed where they are, and the fact that most North Koreans are basically just peasant pawns of a few loons makes those cries for destruction seem a little shallow. It's actually tough to find any sort of real reporting on the actual strategic pitfalls and possibilities should it escalate, so I like to read what you have to say on the subject. :ThmbUp:

It's the old Soviet strategy which is simply a numbers game. They learned during Korea and Vietnam that we enjoyed a 5-1 air superiority so their solution was to employ 6x the Fighters and 6x the pilots.

When I talk about us getting pummeled in the early stages of a Korean War it's not to slight our troops it's just simple mathematics. That's how those regimes operate.

I can easily protect myself from one attacker, two gets tricky, three if they are all small, four... you get the idea. :-)

[Tom]

yeah but remember during his confirmation Hagel admitted he didn't know much about defense, but vowed to study up on it really quick once he got on the job. we're in the best of hands.
And, the other stooge, Kerry, who called out troops murderers, also, by his OWN ADMISSION, sat paralyzed with fear for 42 minutes during 9/11.

The twins of disgrace.......two disgusting, miserable pukes who dishonor this
nation.

[TJDave]

The Iowa is and always will be the king of the capital ships... unless of course they run across the Kirov...

Because the KIROV isn't a battleship. It would lay off and fire missles. However, if the IOWA could close up...Dead KIROV ;)

The Iowa's would have thrashed the Yamato or Bismarck.

No doubt. The Iowa class was built to do exactly that. The Bismarck was crippled and sunk using WWI technology...The Yamato, with airpower.

Either way big boat action is always welcome conversation with me. :)

I love this stuff. Speaking of "big boats": :ThmbUp:

About 5 months to the Cup finals. I hope to be there.

[fast4522]

Sometimes just looking at the map of what is being talked about pulls focus into what is posted. Looking at things in today's light is more sobering while remembering how much has changed since President Dwight David Eisenhower.

[MPRanger]

Either way... miss the old war-wagons.




When I was in the navy I had the opportunity to volunteer for a working
party to help tie up the New Jersey in San Diego, specifically Coronado
where the carriers park. What a beautiful historic ship. I didn't generally
volunteer for working parties but that one was worth it.

I hated to see those battle ships go to moth balls. It's true the Aegis
class ships can wreak more destruction from farther away but nothing
can soften up a beach head for an invasion like 2200 lb shells raining
down . And nothing quite sounds like one of them whistling thru the air
30 degrees past apogee. There simply is no place to hide. Better to not
be near when it lands.

[elysiantraveller]

Because the KIROV isn't a battleship. It would lay off and fire missles. However, if the IOWA could close up...Dead KIROV ;)

If solo and they "happened" upon each other... The Iowa's play in that engagement is to salvo every Harpoon she has in ordinance and hope one can get through the Kirov's air defense system, highly unlikely...

Although she would probably lose the engagement I still think the American battleship survives the encounter. The Kirov is the main reason the Iowa's were brought back in the 80's. They could defend the carrier battle group and if the Kirov was able to get past the Ticonderoga's (a much more even fight) she could sit on position, take, and probably survive, the pounding she was about to receive.


No doubt. The Iowa class was built to do exactly that. The Bismarck was crippled and sunk using WWI technology...The Yamato, with airpower.

The Yamato is a problem for the Iowa but she was built to dictate the rules of engagement and could keep the Yamato out of effective range while still shelling her. The Bismarck would be a trash heap inside of 15 minutes.

I love this stuff. Speaking of "big boats": :ThmbUp:

About 5 months to the Cup finals. I hope to be there.

Spithill is almost impossible to beat and that American crew is amazing in how fast they are in stays...

During the regatta back in September they rallied from a fouled start to clear 13 other boats... incredibly impressive and they did rapidly tacking up the center of the course.

[rgustafson]

When I was in the navy I had the opportunity to volunteer for a working
party to help tie up the New Jersey in San Diego, specifically Coronado
where the carriers park. What a beautiful historic ship. I didn't generally
volunteer for working parties but that one was worth it.

I hated to see those battle ships go to moth balls. It's true the Aegis
class ships can wreak more destruction from farther away but nothing
can soften up a beach head for an invasion like 2200 lb shells raining
down . And nothing quite sounds like one of them whistling thru the air
30 degrees past apogee. There simply is no place to hide. Better to not
be near when it lands.

My father served on battleships in both WW II (the Pennsylvania) and the Korean War where he served on the New Jersey. We were living in Minnesota at the time and he was in the navel reserve. We had to move to Norfolk when he was called up. Before they were deployed, I remember going on board the New Jersey. I was six years old at the time. He was a lieutenant cmdr. and those families got to eat in the officers mess. You can imagine what that ship seemed like to a six year old. I was aware that they had turned the New Jersey into a museum and about a year before he died (at age 89), my son and I flew him out to Philly and toured the New Jersey. That was quite a moving experience for all of us, particularly the part of the tour inside the ship where in one room there is a large photo of the ship's compliment and in that picture there he sat right in the middle of the first row. He stood there and looked at that picture for quite awhile and though physically standing right beside us I could tell mentally he was back in time 60 years ago.

[horses4courses]

http://l1.yimg.com/nn/fp/rsz/040713/images/smush/kim-jong-un-binoculars-reuters_635x250_1365368228.jpg

[johnhannibalsmith]

Yeah, must be checking out all the birds they have since they don't eat them all on Tuesday. :lol:

Nothing says 17th century military powerhouse like a giant pair of shoulderpads, fancy leather gloves, and a set of binoculars.

[Greyfox]

Question:

How does a regime that can't afford street lamps, acquire enough money to build a nuclear bomb and missiles?

Answer:

North Korea is getting help from somewhere. But who? China? Iran?

[Valuist]

http://l1.yimg.com/nn/fp/rsz/040713/images/smush/kim-jong-un-binoculars-reuters_635x250_1365368228.jpg

He's saying, "My damned advisors told me Shanghai Bobby was a lock in the Florida Derby! Wha happened?

[Tom]

http://l1.yimg.com/nn/fp/rsz/040713/images/smush/kim-jong-un-binoculars-reuters_635x250_1365368228.jpg

Hey, I can see Russia, too!

[elysiantraveller]

Question:

How does a regime that can't afford street lamps, acquire enough money to build a nuclear bomb and missiles?

Answer:

North Korea is getting help from somewhere. But who? China? Iran?

China.

[cmp92]

Question:

How does a regime that can't afford street lamps, acquire enough money to build a nuclear bomb and missiles?

Answer:

North Korea is getting help from somewhere. But who? China? Iran?
North Korea also happens to counterfeit a lot of US money. The most in the world I believe.

[Greyfox]

North Korea also happens to counterfeit a lot of US money. The most in the world I believe.

Surely the purchase of equipment and technology to build missiles and nuclear weapons would be electronic transactions rather than paper money. No?

[Robert Fischer]

we rule south korea, and china/russia rules north korea.

My understanding is that north korea is for the most part ruled by china.

[Robert Fischer]

I never understand the media's portrayal of all this stuff.

Obviously these are proxy states. I don't get how north korea is called a "rogue nation" or an "evil axis nation".

I also don't get how these proxy states are supposedly in the "dark ages" when it comes to having nukes and weaponry.

we openly give tons of nukes to south korea and we have nuke producing plants set up all over japan(also basically a proxy state) and probably south korea.

yet, north korea is supposedly in the dark ages?? c'mon man...

I can see things like Experience with actually testing and shooting off nuclear space missles from that actual territory, or manufacturing nukes at that actual territory. These things can be limited by opposing world powers. But it's not like we can't ship american scientists to south korea, or china and russia can't ship their scientists to north korea.

the media just portrays a totally false picture of the situation.

All this stuff is about the economics of power. Not just economics in the sense of money and wealth, but of "power".
The broader portrayal is that there are 2 sides east-west that are opposing with both sides progressively and strategically vying for more power.

Unfortunately to us everyday people these struggles are don't make good guys and bad guys. Both sides simply place a very low value on people like us by these actions.

[Robert Fischer]

Hey, I can see Russia, too!


caption contest winner :lol:

[elysiantraveller]

we rule south korea, and china/russia rules north korea.

My understanding is that north korea is for the most part ruled by china.

China is the one that fears us in the region.

The Chinese are afraid of re-unification in the Korean peninsula as it represents the surrounding of their forces by American influence. The 7th fleet prevents an attack upon Taiwan while Korea falling leaves them surrounded by the US and a very independent rising power in India...

They will be, in effect, left alone in their own back yard...

Strongest navies in the world by my rank:

1-4: 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th fleets... (All US)
5: South Korea
6-7: UK-Japan
8th: Indian...
Distant 9th: Chinese

[Greyfox]

I never understand the media's portrayal of all this stuff.



You should read the life story of Shin Donghyuk who's story is in a book entitled "Escape from Camp 14" - I don't think it is Western Media propaganda.

Wn3vROcSEa4

[TJDave]

http://l1.yimg.com/nn/fp/rsz/040713/images/smush/kim-jong-un-binoculars-reuters_635x250_1365368228.jpg

The barber I had in sixth grade must have emigrated to North Korea.

[Robert Fischer]

China is the one that fears us in the region.

The Chinese are afraid of re-unification in the Korean peninsula as it represents the surrounding of their forces by American influence. The 7th fleet prevents an attack upon Taiwan while Korea falling leaves them surrounded by the US and a very independent rising power in India...

They will be, in effect, left alone in their own back yard...

Strongest navies in the world by my rank:

1-4: 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th fleets... (All US)
5: South Korea
6-7: UK-Japan
8th: Indian...
Distant 9th: Chinese

yea..

I'm hardly a military strategy buff, but it seems like we have a lot stuff going on in the region.

http://www.fotoshack.us/fotos/18214asia.jpg

[JustRalph]

You should read the life story of Shin Donghyuk who's story is in a book entitled "Escape from Camp 14" - I don't think it is Western Media propaganda.

Wn3vROcSEa4

Predictions of up to 3 million live like he did..........they should be attacked, and those imprisoned liberated...........but not in this day and age.

It's a real world ongoing holacaust, in many ways

[Marshall Bennett]

Kim needs to be removed one way or another. Deal with China later. His bark may be bigger than his bite, but why gamble? Iran is even more of a danger if they ever have the nuclear capability.
Of course democrats and Obama in particular will want to take the "wait and lets see" approach. Chances are that won't change for a very long time.
Really wish Bush was still around for this.

[Greyfox]

Temperature Rising + Barometer Rising


Tuesday's News:

(Reuters) - North Korea (http://www.reuters.com/places/north-korea) intensified threats of an imminent conflict against the United States and the South on Tuesday, warning foreigners to evacuate South Korea (http://www.reuters.com/places/south-korea?lc=int_mb_1001) to avoid being dragged into "thermonuclear war".

More at link:
http://www.reuters.com/article/slideshow/idUSBRE93408020130409#a=1

North Korea to 'launch missile TOMORROW' after warning foreigners to evacuate South

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/390452/North-Korea-to-launch-missile-TOMORROW-after-warning-foreigners-to-evacuate-South??


Defiant Iran inaugurates 2 nuclear-linked projects
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/IRAN_NUCLEAR?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-04-09-05-09-35

[tucker6]

Oftentimes it is seen that those who talk a lot act less often. His lunacy may be somewhat of an act in order to gain at the negotiating table. Regardless we need to act decisively and take him and NK out. I'm kind of tired reading about such an insignificant thing as NK and Kim.

[Greyfox]

Kim Jon un is totally insane.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/391376/North-Korea-states-nuclear-war-is-unavoidable-as-it-declares-first-target-will-be-Japan

"In a commentary carried by the Korean Central News Agency (KCNA), the communist country lashed out at Tokyo's standing orders to destroy any missile heading toward Japan, threatening such actions will result in a nuclear attack against the island nation.

If Japan executes its threat to shoot down any North Korean missile, such a “provocative” intervention would see Tokyo — an enormous conurbation of 30 million people — “consumed in nuclear flames”, KCNA warned.

“Japan is always in the cross-hairs of our revolutionary army and if Japan makes a slightest move, the spark of war will touch Japan first,” the report added."

[Tom]

Drone strike - kill this little POS and then tell the rest of the world - "try the crap he did and we will take you out, too." Enough of allowing little piss ants with big armies to threaten the world. Take out the trash.

[fast4522]

A drone strike by this government would be an impeachable offence to the President if it was the target of a head of state. Some see this new technology as the next wild west with a joystick until those who are able to clone or use similar technology to put down a commercial jet with hundreds of innocent people in it. We have to think clearly about our future even if it seems that no one thinks of this today. Do I think someone indeed infected Hugo Chavez with cancer ? Sure, and I think this mad dog best watch what he eats. Again I will say that I'd prefer Team Bush keeping us safe than what we have now.

[Robert Goren]

It not like this guy is calling the shots anyway.

[elysiantraveller]

It not like this guy is calling the shots anyway.

So who is?...

Is this China's proxy war?

Fill me in...

[Robert Fischer]

Now the United States and Japan are threatening to intercept the North Korean's next missile test.

[boxcar]

Kim Jon un is totally insane.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/391376/North-Korea-states-nuclear-war-is-unavoidable-as-it-declares-first-target-will-be-Japan

"In a commentary carried by the Korean Central News Agency (KCNA), the communist country lashed out at Tokyo's standing orders to destroy any missile heading toward Japan, threatening such actions will result in a nuclear attack against the island nation.

If Japan executes its threat to shoot down any North Korean missile, such a “provocative” intervention would see Tokyo — an enormous conurbation of 30 million people — “consumed in nuclear flames”, KCNA warned.

“Japan is always in the cross-hairs of our revolutionary army and if Japan makes a slightest move, the spark of war will touch Japan first,” the report added."

From the article:

"No force on earth can block the just cause of the army and people of the DPRK," the chilling message concluded.

I wonder what the "just cause" is? Does anyone know? Maybe some leftist on this forum would venture a guess? I'm dying to know.

Boxcar

[Greyfox]

From the article:

"No force on earth can block the just cause of the army and people of the DPRK," the chilling message concluded.

I wonder what the "just cause" is? Does anyone know? Maybe some leftist on this forum would venture a guess? I'm dying to know.

Boxcar

Kim Jon-un hasn't been seen in public for a couple of weeks.

Maybe his Generals have had him committed to some Institution?
If not, they should.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/456840/20130414/north-korea-threat-missile-launch-birthday-kim.htm

[JustRalph]

John Kerry says it's time to talk to North Korea

And that is exactly what they have been waiting for


They got what they want. Now the only question is how far they think they can push Kerry and Barry.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/14/17748945-kerry-in-japan-us-ready-to-reach-out-to-north-korea?lite

[PaceAdvantage]

At least they (Barry & Kerry) are living up to their reputations on this one...nobody can accuse them of being a Bush clone now... :lol: :lol: :lol: